From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2128
Date: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 1:10 AM

There are 18 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Carfax and invalid VIN's
From: "James Espey" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

2. Any DeLorean owners near Jonesville, NC?
From: "James Espey" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

3. Re: Lower suspention arms?
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>

4. Re: 5 speed questions
From: "spaceace3113" <spaceace3113_at_dml_yahoo.com>

5. Re: Lower suspention arms?
From: nicholden_at_dml_yahoo.com

6. Re: Tempremental starting Problem
From: "alistairmccann" <alistairmccann_at_dml_yahoo.com>

7. Alternator
From: DMCVIN6683 <dmcvin6683_at_dml_wi.rr.com>

8. Re: Coolant color purple - what is it?
From: "Dani B" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>

9. Re: Electrical Diagram question
From: "drdhdmd" <doctorDHD_at_dml_aol.com>

10. Re: Shift Points
From: Jeremy Delaney <thesmokingman_at_dml_comcast.net>

11. Re: Carfax and invalid VIN's
From: Martin Gutkowski <martin_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

12. Door lock solenoid?
From: "jmlaux83" <jmlaux83_at_dml_yahoo.com>

13. delorean_at_dml_gmail.com email address available on ebay
From: "Frank" <delorean_at_dml_gmail.com>

14. Hey DMCH>>>>> Status of additional engine mods?
From: Pete Berveiler <zamphyr2000_at_dml_yahoo.com>

15. Re: Carfax and invalid VIN's
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

16. Oregon Tech Session
From: tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com

17. Re: Re: Odd chatter from brakes *update*
From: "Payne" <bpayne_at_dml_macnet.com>

18. Something Fishy on E-Bay
From: dwest1981_at_dml_aol.com





Message: 1
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 10:37:02 -0500
From: "James Espey" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: Carfax and invalid VIN's

A few weeks ago someone asked why a particular VIN number would come up as
invalid, when they were *sure* the VIN was correct.

I've recently run into the same problem with a car we are considering
buying, and Carfax has confirmed that if they do not have any data on a
particular VIN, it will be returned as "invalid". The particular car I had
the problem with is a never registered "MSO" car. MSO means "manufacturer's
statement of origin", the document that is used to get a title when a car is
first sold.

Hope this helps...

James Espey

------------------------------------
DeLorean Motor Company
Vice President
james_at_dml_delorean.com
15023 Eddie Drive
Humble, Texas 77396 USA
tel: 800/872-3621
tel2:281/441-2537
fax: 281/441-2813
http://www.delorean.com
------------------------------------

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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 11:36:49 -0500
From: "James Espey" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: Any DeLorean owners near Jonesville, NC?

If so, would you contact me directly at 800/872-3621 or james (at)
delorean.com? Thank you!

James Espey

------------------------------------
DeLorean Motor Company
Vice President
james_at_dml_delorean.com
15023 Eddie Drive
Humble, Texas 77396 USA
tel: 800/872-3621
tel2:281/441-2537
fax: 281/441-2813
http://www.delorean.com
------------------------------------

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.719 / Virus Database: 475 - Release Date: 7/12/2004




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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 18:32:29 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>
Subject: Re: Lower suspention arms?

I see this frequently as well and also figure that it's from 
aftermarket shocks that are too long OR from shock mount bushings 
that are worn out. I'd probably leave the bending as-is, maybe even 
bend it a bit more, and powdercoat over it. At this point it's 
probably as bent as it ever will be. Assuming that you are replacing 
the shocks now, it will probably stop hitting. 

Dave S

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, tobyp_at_dml_k... wrote:
> Nick - The theory is that the shock extension is supposed to stop 
> the lower control arm before it contacts the frame.  However, this 
> is only a theory as I have seen this type of damage on many cars, 
> including Winged1.  I suspect that aftermarket shocks may 
contribute 
> to the problem, as well as worn bushings at either end of the 
> shocks.  If you are completely stripping and powdercoating the 
> frame, it would be nice to change things a bit to eliminate the 
> interference.  Unfortunately, the forward tow hooks are right 
there, 
> 
> Toby Peterson  VIN 2248 "Winged1"
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, nicholden_at_dml_y... wrote:
> > Hi, When i jack my car up the lower front control arms stop and 
> rest on the frame. This over time has slightly bent the area/frame 
> edge were they rest on. Is this normal or are they ment to stop 
> slightly short of the frame, limited by the shock travel?  I ask 
> this as i am getting my frame sandblasted & powdercoated soon and 
> dont want to damage the new powder coat around that area. 
> > 
> > thanks Nick 10927-sydney




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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 19:53:52 -0000
From: "spaceace3113" <spaceace3113_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 5 speed questions

I just want to thank everyone for the replies and concern. I just 
drained and replaced the gearbox oil, which was probably 
original....The car runs and shifts fine, but I havent really gotten 
enough drive time on it. I did have concern about the whole 
hydraulic situation but we'll see what develops. So far its great, 
that may have done it.

thanx guys
Harry & vin 2696




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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:29:05 -0000
From: nicholden_at_dml_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Lower suspention arms?

Thanks Toby i thought that was the case. In regards to my tow hooks 
they are both bent back the opposite way, don't know how this could 
have happened?! I was going to get them ground off and re-positioned 
anyway but with maybe a stronger design. The front control arms were 
in a bit of a mess also as it looks like the car had been tied down 
by them hence the metal was torn. After a few hours on the welder i 
have them back to straight and have plated the lower section of the 
arm (near the frame) to strengthen it up also. Good idea with the 
frame, I think i will get them to trim the edge back slightly were 
the control arm contacts to try elimanate this. 

cheers Nick 10927 - australia





Message: 18
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 04:05:18 -0000
From: tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com
Subject: Re: Lower suspention arms?

Nick - The theory is that the shock extension is supposed to stop 
the lower control arm before it contacts the frame.  However, this 
is only a theory as I have seen this type of damage on many cars, 
including Winged1.  I suspect that aftermarket shocks may contribute 
to the problem, as well as worn bushings at either end of the 
shocks.  If you are completely stripping and powdercoating the 
frame, it would be nice to change things a bit to eliminate the 
interference.  Unfortunately, the forward tow hooks are right there, 
so simply trimming the frame might not be the best idea.  If you 
could get your shop to move the tow hooks inboard a bit, a *smooth* 
trim on that edge would be okay from a structural standpoint.  
Another problem with this interference is that it creates a "close 
couple" (think nutcracker) on the lower control arm, which can bend 
the arm easily.  This can be a problem from a fatigue cracking 
perspective if the arm is crushed locally from contact with the 
frame.  Let us know what you decide to do.

Toby Peterson  VIN 2248 "Winged1"
DeLorean Parts Northwest, LLC
www.delorean-parts.com 








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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 20:09:47 -0000
From: "alistairmccann" <alistairmccann_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Tempremental starting Problem


So how come when I turn the key without pumping the gas pedal the 
car turns over and over without anything happening and then when i 
do pump it, it starts straight away??

Alistair
Vin Pilot25


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> 
wrote:
> Sounds like the classic hot start problem. You can either try the 
> plug swap or you can pull the return line off the acumulater and 
see 
> if fuel is coming out when you run the pump. It could also be a 
> problem with the ballast resistors and/or the bypass relay or 
> corroded, dirty connections. I would start with the fuel system. 
BTW 
> pumping the gas pedal should not have any effect except 
physcological.
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757
> 
> 
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "alistairmccann" 
> <alistairmccann_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> > Hi Folks
> > 
> > I have noticed a problem with my ignition recently.
> > 
> > The car starts on the button in the morning and drives fine all 
day 
> > long but when you stop the car for say 5 minutes and then try to 
> > start it again it will turn over and it takes you to keep 
pumping 
> > the gas pedal to get it to start.
> > 
> > Could the fuel mixture be too rich?? I dont know if this is the 
> > start of a hot start problem?? I mean after I pump the pedal a 
few 
> > times it will start and drive as if nothing was wrong.
> > 
> > HELP PLEASE, Its starting to get embarresing a Gas stations
> > 
> > Alistair McCann.




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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 19:34:48 -0500
From: DMCVIN6683 <dmcvin6683_at_dml_wi.rr.com>
Subject: Alternator

I was the one at Pigeon Forge that won the Alternator from John Hervey 
at www.specialtauto.com. I am not writing this just to give 
specialtauto some advertisement, i am writing to tell you all it is the 
far best upgrade i have done to my car. The alternator was one of his 
D110 models.

I no longer notice the "fan kick" when the fans turn on, A/C cycling on 
and off, my windows operate faster, my aftermarket car stereo no longer 
gives a loud "pop" when i turn up the volume plus my car just seems to 
run better.

I knew i was in need of an alternator replacement soon but i did not 
realize how much the old stock alternator really effected the normal 
operations of my car.

Thank you
Mark V





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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 22:00:12 -0000
From: "Dani B" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>
Subject: Re: Coolant color purple - what is it?

Its most likely just the coolant itself. Coolant isn't limited to the
greenish color, they come in a wide variety of colors. You will see
reds, blues, greens, yellows, and so forth. Same for transmission
fluid, usually you see red, I've used green, etc. Go to a parts store
and check out their coolants and related products, see if you can see
anything with the same color your describing. Dani B 5003-
> 
>  
> > The coolant came out a grayish purple. I have not seen that color 
> in 
> > coolant before. What really amazed me was how clean and nice the 
> > pipes were inside, the best I've ever seen on a long-term-stored, 
> and 
> > even many driven, cars. 
> > 
> > Does anyone have any idea what this stuff is? It is not the blue 
> BMW 
> > type, it was more the color of thin grape juice. I'd really like
to 
> > use it in the future if I can figure out what it is. 
> > 
> > Dave S.




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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 20:26:43 -0000
From: "drdhdmd" <doctorDHD_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Electrical Diagram question

Dani,

Take a close look at the schematic.  The fuel gauge "G" wire does go 
to, but not through the service interval counter as well as all the 
light on that side of the cluster because the "G" wire is the POWER 
wire...from fuse #5 I believe.

Dave & 6530




--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Dani B" <5n-_at_dml_g...> wrote:
> Can someone explain to me why the fuel gauge wire "G" go through/to 
the
> service interval counter 185? I just don't undertsand what it needs 
from
> the coutner, as well as all the lights on that side of the cluster 
and
> tach. Thanks guys -Dani B. 5003




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Message: 10
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 20:20:01 -0400
From: Jeremy Delaney <thesmokingman_at_dml_comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Shift Points

I asked Rob Grady once, and he told me that about 2800 is the best. -Jeremy

steve trimble wrote:

>Any opinion on the proper shift point(rpm wise)for the
>five speed??
>Steve T
>
>
>
>To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
>moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
>For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com
>
>To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>  
>




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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 01:40:20 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <martin_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Carfax and invalid VIN's

My own DeLorean, vin SCEDT26T7BD001458 was registered and used in the US 
- you actually have a record of it at DMCH, James. However, if you run a 
Carfax check on it, it returns no data either. This is not the case on 
my other D, for which I have a full clean report, which *doesn't* show 
that it ever left the US. Wierd considering it's sitting on my drive in 
England, where it's been since I brought it back from Germany!

Martin
#1458
#4426

James Espey wrote:

>A few weeks ago someone asked why a particular VIN number would come up as
>invalid, when they were *sure* the VIN was correct.
>
>I've recently run into the same problem with a car we are considering
>buying, and Carfax has confirmed that if they do not have any data on a
>particular VIN, it will be returned as "invalid". The particular car I had
>the problem with is a never registered "MSO" car. MSO means "manufacturer's
>statement of origin", the document that is used to get a title when a car is
>first sold.
>
>Hope this helps...
>
>James Espey
>  
>





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Message: 12
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 00:59:15 -0000
From: "jmlaux83" <jmlaux83_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Door lock solenoid?

How do I know if I have a bad door lock solenoid? I have the pass 
side door removed and don't want to put it back together having 
possibly bad solenoids. Should I replace my door sealing panels? Both 
doors no longer have this. 

Also, does anyone have any tips on reinstalling the armrest. This was 
a pain to get off and I imagine it will be even worse putting it back 
on. 

Jason
2256   




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Message: 13
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 01:37:29 -0000
From: "Frank" <delorean_at_dml_gmail.com>
Subject: delorean_at_dml_gmail.com email address available on ebay

This email address offered to you as a Delorean fan. See the auction 
below and own delorean_at_dml_gmail.com and get 1 gig of free email space.

5 days only

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5710800498




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Message: 14
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:36:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Pete Berveiler <zamphyr2000_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Hey DMCH>>>>> Status of additional engine mods?

James Espy...

there was discussion about converting from the bosch
K-jetronic CIS mechanical injection system to an EFI
system a few months back.. is there any word on the
status of that project?  I am very curious what would
happen to the high-performance numbers with a
computer-controlled fuel and spark delivery system...

Since the perfectly dyno-tuned engine was pushing
197HP using old technology, what could it be using
more modern tools?

Pete


		
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Do you Yahoo!?
Vote for the stars of Yahoo!'s next ad campaign!
http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/




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Message: 15
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 02:18:46 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Carfax and invalid VIN's

I have seen a few Carfax reports and some of the data is flat out 
wrong or in many cases conflicting with known correct data. I would 
not base a decision to buy a car based on Carfax data alone. It seems 
especilly prone to error the older a car is. There is no substitute 
for the chain of ownership which can usually be obtained from Motor 
Vehicle records of the States the car was registered in. If you start 
seeing too many owners of a particular car, that in itself is a 
danger sign. The other big thing to watch for is any inconsistancies 
with the stated mileage. The ideal case is an owner that kept records 
of all the services which you find more often than not, particularly 
on a collector car. If you get the chance you can also call the 
nearest Delorean parts vender, they all try to keep records of the 
parts and service by vin #. BTW Carfax makes no representation that 
any of it's reports are correct. There are disclaimers about the 
accuracy.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757

Congratulations on becoming Vice President, James!




--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "James Espey" <james_at_dml_u...> wrote:
> A few weeks ago someone asked why a particular VIN number would 
come up as
> invalid, when they were *sure* the VIN was correct.
> 
> I've recently run into the same problem with a car we are 
considering
> buying, and Carfax has confirmed that if they do not have any data 
on a
> particular VIN, it will be returned as "invalid". The particular 
car I had
> the problem with is a never registered "MSO" car. MSO 
means "manufacturer's
> statement of origin", the document that is used to get a title when 
a car is
> first sold.
> 
> Hope this helps...
> 
> James Espey
> 
> ------------------------------------
> DeLorean Motor Company
> Vice President
> james_at_dml_d...
> 15023 Eddie Drive
> Humble, Texas 77396 USA
> tel: 800/872-3621
> tel2:281/441-2537
> fax: 281/441-2813
> http://www.delorean.com
> ------------------------------------
> 
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.719 / Virus Database: 475 - Release Date: 7/12/2004




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Message: 16
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 03:33:17 -0000
From: tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com
Subject: Oregon Tech Session

Hi Gang - For those who wish to take advantage of an opportunity to 
gather with other DeLorean owners in the Portland, Oregon area, we 
will be having an afternoon tech session in the Forest Grove area.  
The session will be hosted by Knut Grimsrud.  We will have a door 
torsion bar adjusting tool available, and can bring along any parts 
that folks might need (based on pre-ordering them so that we are 
sure to have them available).  The plan is to start at around 1:00pm 
on Friday, July 23rd, and go until 6:00 (ish).  Misty and I look 
forward to meeting as many fellow DeLorean enthusiasts as can make 
it on a Friday afternoon and early evening.  For those who are 
interested in attending, please contact me off-list for the exact 
location and directions, and for any parts requirements that you 
have.  If your car is not currently running, we would encourage you 
to get around some that are to get some new energy for getting your 
car fixed and "on the road again".  We hope to meet many new 
friends, renew old acquaintances, and get some serious maintenance 
done.

Toby Peterson VIN 2248 "Winged1"
DeLorean Parts Northwest, LLC
www.delorean-parts.com
toby(at)delorean-parts.com




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Message: 17
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 20:14:53 -0700
From: "Payne" <bpayne_at_dml_macnet.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Odd chatter from brakes *update*


> If the noise is deceleration noise as Dave T suggests I would also
> expect it to occur when you rev the motor. When you run the motor up
> to 3-4,000 RPM and let off the gas you would hear the noise.

I can rev the engine and it sounds very smooth, I can't hear any knocking or
crackling noise. I revved it to about 4,500 RPM a couple times, even trying
to let it down slowly to simulate deceleration and it all sounded good. It
doesn't seem to be a problem with the engine or induction. It makes the
noise even when I'm coasting at idle and the brakes are applied.

> I'm focused on drive line because the deceleration valves sticking
> are very rare.

I will look into this further, but the motor mounts are okay and I don't
hear any strange noise moving it back and forth in the driveway.

> Another thing occurred to me. I once had the muffler brace above the
> alternator break. The broken piece was still on the muffler mount
> and because of the rust, etc. on the brace, the broken piece would
> move but only with some force. When I slowed the car it would move
> forward and hit the alternator fan blades and cause all kinds of
> racket.

I've been looking into this possibility as well. I even removed the heat
shield completely and I still get the same noise. The muffler seems to be in
there firmly. Unless it's the muffler itself? Although this doesn't make
sense as it should make noise with the engine revving and not just when I
apply the brakes.

The blades of the alternator striking metal would probably create a similar
noise, but nothing is in their path. I was thinking maybe something inside
the alternator, but that would make the noise all the time and not just when
I brake. With the fact that it will not make the noise if I brake when the
engine is shut off, I think I can just about rule out a problem with the
brakes. All I know is that the engine has to be running. Yet what could
possibly make a noise that gets worse the harder I push the pedal? If I
brake very gently it will not happen.

I'm about out of ideas here, and I appreciate all the suggestions. Even if
it's a remote possibility, let me know of other ideas and I'll check it to
be sure. Thank you all so much for your help! I'm going to try and not think
about it until tomorrow, as it's only fueling my intense frustration.

Brandon Payne


---
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Message: 18
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 04:06:11 -0000
From: dwest1981_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Something Fishy on E-Bay

Hi there Ladies and Gents,
I'm a future owner and a close follower of whatever happens to be on 
E-Bay at the moment.  This is more for kicks than any serious intent 
to purchase a vehicle that way, but this past week one car caught my 
attention.
Apparently #1302 has come up for sale in Concord, NH.  The seller 
maintains that it has a set of the original Legend twin turbochargers 
factory installed, and has supplied pictures to support their 
statement.  The fit and finish of the car is a little bit worn, but 
nothing major.  I've also seen the pictures of #502, also
supposed to 
have an original Legend twin turbocharger set aboard.  The engine 
bays of these two cars look remarkably different, although if 
anything the pictures from the E-Bay car look to be of a later, 
perhaps reworked design.  The air filter cover has what appears to be 
a molded `twin turbo' mark on it, but not the familiar DMC
label, or 
the Legend logo.
Basically, I don't have a clue what I'm looking at here.  I
guess 
that there's every possibility that this is a twisted hoax
attempt to 
lure in unsuspecting bidders.  The most mysterious part about all of 
this is that nobody seems willing to place a bid on this auction, 
which ends on the 20th of July.  The starting bid from the seller is 
15,000 USD and seems very fair for a vehicle with the given 
credentials… not to mention that #1302 itself is a pretty
important 
number in the 1981 production year.
Any input you might have would be quite appreciated.  I'm just 
baffled by all of this.

Here is the address to the auction for further inspection.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&rd=1&item=2484600527&category=31830&sspagename=WDVW

Thanks very much for your time,
Dan West
Dwest1981_at_dml_aol.com





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