From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2212
Date: Sunday, September 05, 2004 4:30 AM

There are 11 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Looking for a DMC (Andy)
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

2. Re: Re: Looking for a DMC
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

3. Shift Boot
From: Chris Shepherd <chrisau79_at_dml_yahoo.com>

4. Re: Looking for a DMC
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

5. Re: Looking for a DMC
From: DeLorean5000_at_dml_comcast.net

6. Re: Looking for a DMC
From: "Video Bob" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>

7. cooling fan follow-up
From: Eric Itzel <eric_at_dml_seviernet.com>

8. Update on my high idle.
From: Enid/Jeremiah <hispanicangeleyes_at_dml_yahoo.com>

9. DMC Maintenence
From: "dmc4matt" <dmc4matt_at_dml_yahoo.com>

10. Frame Replacement-Game On!
From: "Michael & Denise" <luckeys71_at_dml_cox.net>

11. Alternator problems
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>





Message: 1
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 21:23:15 EDT
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Looking for a DMC (Andy)

In a message dated 9/3/04 12:30:39 PM Central Daylight Time, tan5732_at_dml_rit.edu 
writes:


> Also note, EVERYTHING is original down to the tires, I have heard of many 
> improvements / upgrades that are considered a necessity to use this car as a 
> daily driver, this car has not seen any of those.
> 
> Your response is greatly appreciated.
> 
> Todd

Todd,

This one sounds like one of those cars that is NOT worth $18K.  I would 
advise either talking this one down if the rest of the body and interior are 
PRISTINE to maybe $12K - other than that, don't feel bad if you walk away from this 
one.  the car I described that is worth $18K would be in much better 
electrical condition.  why it has so many problems with only 11,000 miles is quite odd. 
perhaps the speedo doesn't work so it hasn't logged any miles in a long time? 
 do the tires look like they have 11,000 miles on them?  this car has quite a 
story behind it, i am sure.

don't hesitate to keep looking if you have a gut feeling it's a problem car.  
but then again, some people like that challenge, and it could still be a good 
deal IF everything else were PERFECT.   as for the transmission grinding in 
reverse, that is a typical problem of an OEM plastic clutch line.  switching to 
a stainless braided line would probably eliminate that problem.  i wouldn't 
be too worried about that part.

Andy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 21:33:56 EDT
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Looking for a DMC

In a message dated 9/3/04 3:28:16 PM Central Daylight Time, 
ssdelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com writes:


> >>snip<<
> <It will have about the same pickup and go as an automatic small car, say a 
> Chevy
> 
> <Berretta or Honda Civic. ...both of which would most likely beat a Delorean.
> >>snip<<
> 
> To complete this sentence add "in a drag race" at the end. Driving curvy 
> roads a
> D will blow the doors off these cars (Disclaimer: at least my 5-speed 
> does... the
> way I drive it... with the Grady/Koncelik lowering setup).

A second disclaimer - modern mid-90's and up, non-base-engine honda civic.  
the DeLorean was no slouch when judged against similar 1981 era cars.  also, it 
blows my mine how advanced the interior design was for its time - ever 
compared against a 1981 chevy caprice classic? or even a mid 80's BMW?

if your car is actually tuned up well and sorted out, it's really quite 
quick.  it's faster than my 200 hp Lexus ES300. naturally, it handles better too :-)

Andy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 18:54:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Shepherd <chrisau79_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Shift Boot

Someone wanted the plastic shift boot bracket? I just got my new one from DMCH. The old one has a broken snap in thingamy but I have it and you might be able to fix it. Leather is shot. Send me your address and I'll mail it to you.

		
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 02:46:17 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Looking for a DMC

It has been my experience with a lot of old cars that even if you find
one that has been garaged since new you will have all kinds of
problems. Maybe when you first start to use it you might only have a
window that won't work but very quickly the aging process catches up.
The brakes will start to leak. The water pump will leak. Electrical
problems will pop up out of nowhere. The more you exercise it the more
 problems you will have. It will be a steep curve and you will fall
behind but eventually you will catch up on them and slowly you will
have less and less trouble until it is reliable. The trouble with this
piecemeal approach is that it seems like it is bleeding you to death a
little at a time while stranding you at the worst possible times and
places. The other way to approach this is to "bite the bullet" and
just do all the work that you know it will need all at once. This
means all of the usual things for a Delorean like struts, cooling
system service, fuel system service, rebuild the brakes and clutch, do
ALL the updates and recalls, a couple of Zillas or something similar,
door seals, C/V boots,fuel accumulater and filter, tires, clutch line,
change ALL the fluids, wiper blades, Tune-up, trailing arm bolts,
lubricate EVERYTHING, and on and on. You will spend at least $5,000
just on parts. You really have to be honest with yourself and budget
for it when you buy a "sleeper"
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "spaceace3113" <spaceace3113_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> " What you want to avoid is an all original, stock car that has been 
> sitting it's whole life with no miles" 
> 
>    Somehow I find this rather hard to believe, I purchased my car 
> with 89 miles on the clock and on top of being concourse worthy its 
> a dream to own and drive. Did I spend $$ to make it that way? yes 
> but not that much and having everything addressed from the beginning 
> is in my opinion the best way to go. Im sure that in 5 years time I 
> would have paid less to keep my car on the road than most others. 
> I would go as far as putting my car up against a DMCH anytime
> The 20 thousand rule is on its way to becoming obsolete (maybe an 
> average good shape car)....you couldnt pry some cars from their 
> owners for 35 thousand certainly not mine. 
> 
> Harry VIN #2696 "In all her glory I might add"




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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 03:33:01 +0000
From: DeLorean5000_at_dml_comcast.net
Subject: Re: Looking for a DMC

Ok, great......Harry owns an exception.  However, 9 times out of 10 I would agree with that statement to avoid original stock cars, especially if the owner wants to actually drive the car rather than look at it.  As always there are exceptions to the rule, that is given.  This same tired arugment gets drudged up every now and then.  Seen it several times over the past 8 years on this list.    When it comes down to it, miles don't matter, only the care of the car does.  Afterall, we are talking DeLorean miles here, which vary greatly from other makes.  Everyone here wants something different out of their DeLorean, so enjoy it in your own special way.  
Regards,
Darren Decker
#5000 

-------------- Original message -------------- 

> " What you want to avoid is an all original, stock car that has been 
> sitting it's whole life with no miles" 
> 
> Somehow I find this rather hard to believe, I purchased my car 
> with 89 miles on the clock and on top of being concourse worthy its 
> a dream to own and drive. Did I spend $$ to make it that way? yes 
> but not that much and having everything addressed from the beginning 
> is in my opinion the best way to go. Im sure that in 5 years time I 
> would have paid less to keep my car on the road than most others. 
> I would go as far as putting my car up against a DMCH anytime 
> The 20 thousand rule is on its way to becoming obsolete (maybe an 
> average good shape car)....you couldnt pry some cars from their 
> owners for 35 thousand certainly not mine. 
> 
> Harry VIN #2696 "In all her glory I might add" 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address: 
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com 
> 
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com 
> 
> To search the archives or view files, log in at 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
> Yahoo! Groups Links 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 23:06:36 -0500
From: "Video Bob" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Looking for a DMC

Sure, there is the exception to every rule, and it sounds like you got 
lucky.

Ask John Hervey who rebuilds brakes every day what these calipers look like 
after 20 something years... my car looked perfect and was driven often, the 
brakes were froze up and rusted.
After 20+ years of inactivity you will need to replace most all of the hoses 
in the car, the fuel boot and most likely the pump as well, not to mention 
all the standard electrical updates.
Is there ANYONE on this list who has a DAILY DRIVER who has not done these 
updates?
If you haven't you will be stuck on the side of the road.

A car that has been driven frequently with about 20K-40K miles on it has had 
these things done
by necessity in order to keep it running.

A "collector" car that has been stored is going to need to be updated to 
make it reliable.
There are a lot of low mileage cars that have been stored but unless they 
were kept in a
climate controlled storage (like mine was) the interior leather will turn 
hard and slick.
Although not cracked, it needs to be reconditioned or replaced.
As perfect as I thought my car was, I still ended up replacing the seat 
covers.

Let me ask you a few questions that I think will help prove my point.

Q: How many miles have you put on your car since you got it?
Q: Do you drive it as a daily driver?
Q: How much have you invested in the car, your purchase price and updates?

Is there anyone on this list who has bought or sold a DeLoren for 
$35,000.00?

Most people I have talked to have spent between $10K and $20K on their cars.
I would like to know how many people have actually bought one of DMCH's 
restored cars for that price.
For $35K I would sell you my Delorean and deliver it to you with a cake.
You can build yourself one hell of a Delorean for that kind of bread.

For the record, I bought my car off of eBay for about $15K, then replaced:
The seats, radio, speakers, alternator, brake system, all radiator hoses, 
fuel boots and hoses,
electrical fuses and relays, ZILLA updates, radiator and fans, belts and 
pullys, tail light boards,
all bulbs and now the door seals and struts.

- Videobob
VIN#5278


>From: "spaceace3113" <spaceace3113_at_dml_yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [DML] Looking for a DMC
>Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 22:06:32 -0000
>
>" What you want to avoid is an all original, stock car that has been
>sitting it's whole life with no miles"
>
>    Somehow I find this rather hard to believe, I purchased my car
>with 89 miles on the clock and on top of being concourse worthy its
>a dream to own and drive. Did I spend $$ to make it that way? yes
>but not that much and having everything addressed from the beginning
>is in my opinion the best way to go. Im sure that in 5 years time I
>would have paid less to keep my car on the road than most others.
>I would go as far as putting my car up against a DMCH anytime
>The 20 thousand rule is on its way to becoming obsolete (maybe an
>average good shape car)....you couldnt pry some cars from their
>owners for 35 thousand certainly not mine.
>
>Harry VIN #2696 "In all her glory I might add"
>
>
>
>
>To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
>moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
>For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com
>
>To search the archives or view files, log in at 
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>





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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 11:03:58 -0400
From: Eric Itzel <eric_at_dml_seviernet.com>
Subject: cooling fan follow-up

First of all, thank you to everyone who posted on this.
 
I found the problem- melted fuses. I have John Hervey's Fan fix module
in my car, and the inline fuses that are used in the fan-fail connector
actually melted together. The fuses didn't blow, though. I believe this
happened because of the way I had the whole module "tucked" in a small
crevice, and the fuses were side by side. Add that, and running the AC
more than usual with the summer heat and there is a potential scenario
of hot fuses. The wire, fuse holders, and everything else held up, but
those fuses are shot! I replaced them with 15amp fuses (there were
formerly 20amp) and I always keep spares with me, so this should solve
this problem. 
 
Just for the record, the unit is 2 years old, so I'm not saying anything
about the Fan Fix module- it's good stuff. Every part has a life, and
those little fuses had all they could stand of DeLorean voltage.
 
I also found the 25amp circuit breaker that powers both the door locks
and the RPM relay appears to be shot- the RPM relay wires were very hot
to touch and the connectors were starting to smolder. I guess it's time
to replace all of that 23 year old crap in that compartment..
 
Thanks again!
 
Eric
vin 4433


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Message: 8
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 13:36:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Enid/Jeremiah <hispanicangeleyes_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Update on my high idle.

Hey everyone!


Thank you all for your quick replies and excellent
suggestions.  The throttle cable was on the spool, but
it had been held up on the lower end (closer to the
valve body).  My car had been "altered" at one point -
the throttle and cpu governor cables are held together
by a plastic tie.  The black throttle cable comes to
the spool, but before it gets there it becomes "fat"
with finely twined wire, then only one tiny shiny
metal wire goes to the throttle spool.  The "fat area"
had popped out of the black sheathing, causing the
throttle to stick a bit.  The car had also been
heavily enriched (to my own fault there trying to fix
it, just causing it to be worse), AND the idle speed
microswith was a bit off.  One of the nuts that hold
the "hammer" had loosened a bit, and the hammer pushed
the microswitch all the way down.  I'm assuming that
causes the throttle plates to be wide open, which
would definitely explain my 3000+ rpm at idle. 
Anyhoo, I've straightened everything out to the best
of my abilities, and I think everything's copasetic
now!  Thank you everyone for your replies and
suggestions; I actually print them all out and put
them in notebooks in case the similar signs return. 
Now for next Saturday...the day Casey and I begin to
change the exhaust manifold gaskets...=)

Jeremiah


		
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Message: 9
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 22:31:26 -0000
From: "dmc4matt" <dmc4matt_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: DMC Maintenence

Hey everybody,

Just bought a DeLorean a few weeks ago. It's an 81 Automatic, dark 
grey interior, with 28K on it. I've always wanted one and thought 
they are just the neatest looking cars. It runs and drives very well. 
The previous owner (I'm guessing) didn't put in any of the updates 
because everything looks original. I had the common (I think) hot 
start problem. Everything i've read said the most common thing to fix 
it is the fuel accumulator. I replaced that first, hoping it would 
solve the problem. Well, it didn't, so I then tried the check valve O-
Rings. It was missing the O-Ring on the piston, so i thought that 
would solve my problem. I put the new rings in, and started it up. I 
let it get warm, and shut it off. I let it sit for ten minutes, and 
it fired right back up. I then did the same thing, letting it sit for 
fifteen minutes. It fired back up. I took it down the street to put 
gas in, and it wouldn't start again. I had to call a flatbed tow 
truck to tow it two miles down the road :(  Since I live quite a bit 
away from and of the DMC Service Centers, I called a local Volvo 
service center. The owner, of course, knew that thew DeLoreans used 
the same Bosch K Jetronic fuel system as a Volvo. They took the car 
in, and started to check it out. His first thought was that it was 
the fuel pump, but as he looked more into it, he thinks it may be the 
fuel relay, because he says it smells burned. So that is where I am 
with it.

My question: Has anyone had a similar problem like myself? 

Thanks!
Matt 
VIN # 2205




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Message: 10
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 20:22:21 -0400
From: "Michael & Denise" <luckeys71_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: Frame Replacement-Game On!

Well thanks to Josh it looks like #3760 is headed to Cincinnati next week for what will hopefully be a new life.  Josh and Ken have been incredibly helpful in assisting me with my many questions about this process and I look forward to seeing this happen but I must admit it's a little scary too.  I think it's kind of like that moment when you're on the first big drop in a roller coaster and it leaves you hanging for just a few seconds before you swoosh down in a torrent of screams!  Another assist was necessary from Dave Sontos to make the trip as I ran into a problem replacing the clutch master cylinder and had to call Dave for some guidance.  None of this would be possible without this newsgroup and I want to thank all of the individuals who have taken the time to contact me off-list with their advice.  If anyone is in the Cincinnati area and would like to assist and experience this project firsthand next weekend please contact Josh off-list and he can give you the details (hope you don't mind me promoting your tech session Josh:).   I've always enjoyed watching the TLC program "Overhaulin" and I guess I'm going to get to participate in one up close and personal!
Mike
(down but not out in a rusted DeLorean)
 


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Message: 11
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 01:09:20 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>
Subject: Alternator problems

Rich and I were working on an alternator issue today that I've never 
run into. I know how to look for the usual stuff, but this one has me 
stumped.

Start car - alternator light stays on, charging system at 12.1 volts 
(DVM, not the dash gauge. Dash gauge looks to be about 9 volts). 

Rev Engine - charging system jumps to 13.9 volts, light stays on. 

Let it idle back down, stays at 13.9, light stays on. (Dash just 
above the 13). 

Things we tried - remove light bulb - acts exactly the same (but with 
no light - duh). Checked wire (brown w/yellow trace) from alternator 
to idiot light with both ends disconnected - no shorts to ground, 
overall resistance of the wire less than an ohm. Cleaned up bulkhead-
to-frame ground, bypassed engine-to-frame ground, check all 
connections at instrument cluster. Checked connections at alternator 
(all those stupid brown wires). Tried another battery. Keep in mind 
that the car starts and runs fine, which rules out most of the 
grounding issues since the starter ground and alternator ground are 
essentially the same path. 

I'm suspecting that the regulator in the alternator is bad, but we 
tried three different used OEM Motorola alternators (all of 
admittedly suspect quality). Unfortunately I'm not sure the other two 
worked the same - we didn't try reving the engine with those. In all 
the cases the idiot light was on brightly. 

Next step is to replace the alternator with a new one, but did I miss 
anything? 

Dave S





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