From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2215
Date: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 4:34 AM

There are 8 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Hard starting (or no starting) issue resolved?
From: "Dani B" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>

2. Timing question:
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>

3. Re: DeLo K Jetronic vs Volvo
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

4. Almost there, but she won't start...
From: "Matt Spittle" <supermatty_at_dml_psu.edu>

5. Re: Water Pump
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

6. Re: hotstart problems
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

7. Re: Re: Ignition issue- RESOLVED (long)
From: FREDRAVAS_at_dml_aol.com

8. RE: Re: Ignition issue- RESOLVED (long)
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>





Message: 1
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 23:58:54 -0000
From: "Dani B" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>
Subject: Hard starting (or no starting) issue resolved?

Today I had the chance to play around a little with the car. I
adjusted the distributor a little bit (CCW standing on drivers side)
and now the car starts fine as opposed to not starting at all without
starting spray. Why would this be? It idles a little faster but who
cares, my car starts easily! Dani B. 5003




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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 00:32:21 -0000
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Timing question:

Since the ignition resolution things are ok with #5335, but I want to 
pose a question and I don't want to give any symptoms which 
could "put answers in your head". I just have a curiosity.

1. Name as many symptoms of over-advanced ignition as you can think 
of.
a) valve clatter/pre-ignition
b) poor fuel economy
c) ?????

2. Name as many symptoms of over-retarded ignition as you can think 
of.

a) loss of power
b) ????

You can email me your contributions off line if you like.

Thanks,

Rich A.
#5335




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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 00:59:33 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: DeLo K Jetronic vs Volvo

Actually it's identical to contemporary B28F. Same CPR. Same metering 
head. Same Lambda Sond. Of course fuel/air mixture unit and intake 
manifold are identical.

I have a whole B28 top end from a 1990 760. Only difference is the 
CPR.

Are very slight differences between B27 and B28 (Series 004 CPR vs 
Series 066 for example), but that's all (single piece fuel/air 
mixture unit casting has absolutely no effect on mechanic's ability 
to tune).

DMC was buying these things on pallets and simply dropping them into 
production automobiles. Was the only way to qualify for US emissions 
on such short notice. They did no engine work themselves (not even 
research & development).

You may well run into a Volvo repairman who's never seen a PRV, but 
that merely denotes the engine's North American paucity compared to 
the 4 cylinder unit, not some DeLo difference.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, John Podlewski <john_podlewski_at_dml_y...> 
wrote:
> Be very, very careful when you let someone mess with the jetronic K 
fuel system who does not have experience working on Deloreans'.  It 
is nearly bullet proof, remember their are components that are Not 
Volvo, It is a delorean!  I've been down that road by someone that 
was an "expert on Volvo's and Yes jaguar's too" over the years and 
speak from experience and it was not fun!-one of those two shops are 
now out of business.
> Just some food for thought.
>  
> Other issues fine but when someone that is not familiar with the 
Deloearn fuel system starts trying to figure it out you could more 
likely be spending ALOT more money than necessary.  The fuel system 
is something you don't want to leave inexperience mechanic trying to 
learn on your car.  No matter how much they try and convince you, ask 
have they ever worked on deloeran's specifically the fuel system?
>  
> You might be alot better off diagnosing and repairing the car 
yourself with the help of the DML, we all have just about seen every 
issue with fuel system and could probably nail down problem pretty 
quickly if it isn't already been diagnosed and best of all the advice 
is free and your get the correct parts from the correct vendors!!!
> 
> 
>  
> Hey everybody,
> 
> Just bought a DeLorean a few weeks ago. It's an 81 Automatic, dark 
> grey interior, with 28K on it. I've always wanted one and thought 
> they are just the neatest looking cars. It runs and drives very 
well. 
> The previous owner (I'm guessing) didn't put in any of the updates 
> because everything looks original. I had the common (I think) hot 
> start problem. Everything i've read said the most common thing to 
fix 
> it is the fuel accumulator. I replaced that first, hoping it would 
> solve the problem. Well, it didn't, so I then tried the check valve 
O-
> Rings. It was missing the O-Ring on the piston, so i thought that 
> would solve my problem. I put the new rings in, and started it up. 
I 
> let it get warm, and shut it off. I let it sit for ten minutes, and 
> it fired right back up. I then did the same thing, letting it sit 
for 
> fifteen minutes. It fired back up. I took it down the street to put 
> gas in, and it wouldn't start again. I had to call a flatbed tow 
> truck to tow it two miles down the road :( Since I live quite a bit 
> away from and of the DMC Service Centers, I called a local Volvo 
> service center. The owner, of course, knew that thew DeLoreans used 
> the same Bosch K Jetronic fuel system as a Volvo. They took the car 
> in, and started to check it out. His first thought was that it was 
> the fuel pump, but as he looked more into it, he thinks it may be 
the 
> fuel relay, because he says it smells burned. So that is where I am 
> with it.
> 
> My question: Has anyone had a similar problem like myself? 
> 
> Thanks!
> Matt 
> VIN # 2205
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please 
address:
> moderators_at_dml_d...
> 
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see 
www.dmcnews.com
> 
> To search the archives or view files, log in at 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 01:03:10 -0000
From: "Matt Spittle" <supermatty_at_dml_psu.edu>
Subject: Almost there, but she won't start...

I know some of you have been following along with me, from what 
started as an oxygen sensor replacement that turned into an engine 
removal.  I've got the engine back in the car, and everything wired 
up, including many replaced wiring harness connectors.  I also 
powdercoated the starter and starter solenoid.

Today I went to start it, but all I hear is *click* and that's it.  
I distinctly hear the plunger press the starter gear against the 
flywheel, but the starter doesn't turn.  So, I go back underneath 
the car with a big wrench, and my friend turns the car to the start 
position while I hold a wrench between the 2 large studs on the 
solenoid.  Yes, this produced a lot of fireworks, but it turned the 
engine over several times.  

It seems to me that my solenoid doesn't work.  If I simply use the 
wrench to join the 2 large studs, the starter will turn by itself.  
If I just use the ignition key, I hear the plunger activating.  If 
my friend turns the key to the start position, while I join the 
large studs, we get the engine to turn over.  Now, while my friend 
and I were doing this, trying to start the car, we suddenly realized 
there was a reasonable amount of smoke forming from the passenger 
side of the engine near the ignition coil area.  I'm not sure what 
was burning, but it wasn't obvious.  For a few minutes after that, 
if he would turn the key to start (without me monkeying with the 
wrench), the front cooling fans would strangely come on.  After a 
few minutes, that no longer happened, and we were back to square 1, 
where the car just *clicks* a single time when the key is turned to 
the start position.  

Any thoughts?

thanks,

Matt
#1604






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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 01:22:39 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Water Pump

If you're running both A/C idler pulleys, you won't be able to use a 
Volvo water pump pulley (outer groove interferes with the A/C belt). 
Darryl Tinnerstet's pulley is shaped to avoid such.

You'll encounter a similar problem if you ever try to use a Volvo 
crankshaft pulley (same diameter for both grooves, versus DeLo 
smaller diameter outer groove).

I'm running Darryl's pulley on a PRV water pump of goodness only 
knows what intended application (generic eBay purchase) with 
excellent results. 

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, doctorDHD_at_dml_a... wrote:
> Is anyone out there using the "Volvo" pump with the bolt on pulley?
>  
> I need to replace my pump and the pulley is quite rusted and also 
appears  to 
> be cracking at its hub.
>  
> What pump did you buy, where did you get it and what kind of 
warranty does  
> it have?
>  
> What pulley are you using?  The one from DeLorean Parts Northwest  
seems good.
>  
> Thank  you,
> 
> Dave and 6530
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 02:03:22 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: hotstart problems

Do the plug change thing with the CPR. If it starts up then it is a
fuel problem. If it still won't start you may have a bad pick-up coil
in the distributer. Vapor lock is not usually a problem on a fuel
injected car where the fuel is under high pressure. There ARE other
causes for the rest pressure to not stay up but the usual culprit IS
the fuel accumulater. The other things could be a bad pick-up hose in
the fuel tank so there is air in the fuel system, a leaky check valve
on the fuel pump, or a leaky pressure regulator on the mixture unit.
Of course if there are any fuel leaks they can also drop the rest
pressure. You have to narrow down if it is fuel or electrical first.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757 



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "checksix3" <jetjock11_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Me <fleetofworlds_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> > Note to new owners.The fuel accumulator is not always responsible 
> for the car not starting when hot.This problem is also caused by an 
> overheted fuel system. 
> 
> Hi there. I usually lurk but here is some advice:
> 
> The accumulator is only one of a series of devices that maintain rest 
> pressure in the fuel system. Maintaining liquid fuel under pressure 
> in the system raises the vapor pressure of the fuel and prevents 
> common hot start problems. 
> 
> If you're forced to ventilate the engine bay to get a hot start after 
> changing your accumulator you still have a problem either with rest 
> pressure or an unrelated hot start issue. I suggest you measure the 
> rest pressure to verify it remains within the specs and time noted in 
> the manual. 
> 
> As long as rest pressure is maintained there is no typical heat soak 
> condition that should cause fuel vaporization and prevent a hot 
> start. 
> 
> Gary




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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 23:01:49 EDT
From: FREDRAVAS_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Ignition issue- RESOLVED (long)

hi dave... what the difference between a four dollars fram filter and twelve 
dollars perflux filter just curious, 

freddie  vin 6048 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 21:01:14 -0500
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Ignition issue- RESOLVED (long)



-----Original Message-----
From: endotex23 [mailto:endotex23_at_dml_yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 4:07 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: Ignition issue- RESOLVED (long)


 Please take a look at the web site again.
The alternators we manufacture for the Delorean are all brand new parts from
the ground up. The are no cores used in them. Normally the only place you
will get a New Alternator is from the Dealer. I don't know anyone stocking
New, only reman.  If we rebuild a Motorola, then yes we use old cores.
As far as the 8mm HP spark plug wires, yes they are also brand new wires we
manufacture.
I think what you mean to say about non vendor items are what is called
aftermarket. Vendor( Original )items would be NOS inventory made especially
for or sourced for the Delorean. Since Delorean didn't have time to do the
improvements, All vendors me and others have taken the time to source
aftermarket parts that will perform as good if not better and are also new
instead of old inventory which some people are burden with.
Selecting a part from the local supplier and not working with a Delorean
vendor is done all the time. The parts would again be called aftermarket and
since our cars are 20+ years old most of the demands for money on the shelf
are not for our cars or the old Volvo's. Money is to tight. Keep in mind
that John didn't manufacture a lot of parts used on the car, They were
sourced from other cars that were proven or tested.
All I'm saying is that the Delorean parts vendors stock a normally proven
part and keeps you from having to spend time looking. If you plan ahead then
the parts are only 3 to 4 day's away. When I got started I ordered parts
just to make sure they would work and fit.
John Hervey






 Not to take anything away from your contribution to the
community but the modification of alternator cores could hardly be
considered manufacturing. Correct me if wrong but I seriously doubt
you manufacture plug wires. You may cut to length and terminate but
probably little more. In addition most of the vendors "manufacture"
even less than you when it comes to generic parts. My point remains
valid: Time may be money but there are many non vendor parts that
will function just fine if one understands the technology.

A few more observations. I fail to see how my not signing a post
infers anything other than what was stated in the content of the
post. If you were implying that I was implying time is saved by
utilizing vendor supplied generic parts than yes, that would be true
unless the vendor has improperly selected the part. A customer is
trading his time and money in exchange for the expertise of the
vendor, a result of the customer's own lack of expertise. This is all
well and good if the vendor knows more than the customer, which is
not always the case. It also restricts the customer to the vendor's
idea of the part's performance. It also depends on which the customer
values more, his time or money. But to say a customer selected part
will not function correctly is a sweeping and invalid statement. Such
parts can often be superior to a vendor's generic part in many ways.

It also proves the old adage that time may be money but knowledge is
power. It's up to the each individual to decide which has more value.




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