From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2249
Date: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 7:53 AM

There are 16 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Gas Mileage
From: Todd Nelson <tan5732_at_dml_rit.edu>

2. Re: Frame Swap Photos
From: "cbl1739" <cbl302_at_dml_sbcglobal.net>

3. Re: Frame Swap Photos
From: Josh Haldeman <jhaldeman_at_dml_fuse.net>

4. Re: Frame restoration
From: nicholden_at_dml_yahoo.com

5. Re: Frame Swap Photos
From: "Dani B" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>

6. Re: Re: Transmission Quetion
From: Martin Gutkowski <martin_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

7. Re: Re: Manual Shifting questions - Now Idle issues
From: "Mike Polzin" <MPolzin_at_dml_sen.com>

8. RE: Re: Frame restoration
From: "Joseph Kuchan" <josephkuchan_at_dml_hotmail.com>

9. Re: Gas Mileage
From: "delorean3502" <delorean_at_dml_charter.net>

10. Re: Frame restoration
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

11. Re: Gas Mileage
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

12. Brake light trouble 3
From: "secret_jedi_guy" <secret_jedi_guy_at_dml_yahoo.com>

13. Blower Speeds 1 & 2 out
From: "gzapf" <x86Daddy_at_dml_myrealbox.com>

14. Steering Column Bushing shortcut
From: "wayofcain" <wayofcain_at_dml_yahoo.com>

15. warning to non-mechanics (gas tank)
From: "Marvin" <marv_at_dml_printeddrinkware.com>

16. Re: Gas Mileage
From: "Tom Porter" <treehouse2000us_at_dml_yahoo.com>





Message: 1
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 23:59:26 -0400
From: Todd Nelson <tan5732_at_dml_rit.edu>
Subject: Gas Mileage

Hey,

Has anyone ever looked into improving the gas mileage on their DeLorean?  Or is that not a concern?

Thanks,
Todd


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 04:24:49 -0000
From: "cbl1739" <cbl302_at_dml_sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Frame Swap Photos

DON'T try to install/slide the frame in with that shifter 
installed,trust me on this,it will hang up on you as you are sliding 
the frame in,it adds about another six inches of jacking with the 
shifter installed,and will most likely hang up somewhere on the 
fiberglass as you are installing it.
I have done about a dozen body removals/installs,and found this out 
on the first removal.By the way,the way I removed the black bodies 
was with a home made "swing set" style cradle,made from 3 inch steel 
pipes,supported with 45 degree braces,worked just fine for me,making 
it a ONE man job,and able to roll the frame out,from under the black 
bodies.(it always scared me to see the body hanging in mid-air,(as i 
was rolling the frame out from under it)but always worked like a 
charm)

CBL



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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 23:42:38 -0400
From: Josh Haldeman <jhaldeman_at_dml_fuse.net>
Subject: Re: Frame Swap Photos

Attach wheels...roll under, using basically the same method...and/or use 
Ken's trailer and take both parts to his lift on the other side of town, 
if it proves too difficult, (read jacking body too high) with the former.

-Josh



Dave Swingle wrote:

>Josh -  - how do you plan to get it back together? I assume that you 
>won't be dragging the new frame across the driveway. . . 



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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 08:07:29 -0000
From: nicholden_at_dml_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Frame restoration

Hi, Just thought i'd let you know what i ended up doing in the areas 
on the frame that couldnt be accessed by the sand blaster(ie inside 
engine cradle etc).... 

I rang around and spoke to a few rust proofing guys and they 
sugessted the use of 'Fish oil'. I chipped of as much expoy as i 
could see through the small access holes and then with a presurised 
spray can of 'fish oil' and a flexible hose nozzle soaked the whole 
areas. Apprently the guy was telling me the fish oil will actually 
run against gravity up hill into all the small corners and under any 
semi raised epxoy. I had a bit of flaking epxoy in thses areas but 
couldnt see any 'real rust' just some rusty marks so i hope this 
will prevent future problems.

The info on the can says that it treats any rust and prevents 
further corrosion and if none is present will leave a coating that 
will need re-treating every few years depending on conditions. 
Any one else had experience with this stuff? 

Thanks Nick - Sydney 10927






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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:11:41 -0000
From: "Dani B" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>
Subject: Re: Frame Swap Photos

I've done plenty of these swaps by myself. I used cement blocks to
hold the car up while the frame was out-and once you jack it up enough
to clear the frame, I used 2X12s running under the car (up by the gas
tank), they ran about 1.5 feet out on both sides so you can now move
the cement blocks out 1.5 feet and the front end will clear. take off
the front tires but not the whole wheel assembly and then just put a
jack or dolly under the front end so it will roll. I've never had a
problem with the shifter (if you raise the body high enough), I find
it would be more of a pain to remove and reinstall in the car since
all the steel fuel lines will be in the way-but everyone has their
menthods. Obviously, doing it alone I used 2 hydrolic floor jacks (not
bottle!) and 2 jack stands, with A LOT of wood (4X4s, 2X4s, 6X6s all
different sizes). With a jack on either side of the body you jack them
up evenly, and once you reach a certain height you put a block or
whatever will fill the space from the ground to the car, and then
lower the jack onto the wood. Move them to the rear and do the same, 
etc etc. Once you jack up the front far enough where you can put a
2X12, you hold the body with the 2 jacks on both sides, and you remove
your stack of blocks and install the 2X12s (I used 2 2X12s to increase
strength) and then put the blocks back under the 2X12, then keep on
going like that. Remember to keep the distance from front to back
fairly even, but you will need to jack up some more then other to keep
the process going. I didn't use 2X12s in the rear because honestly I
didn't have them, so when it came time to roll the frame out, I rolled
it out until it would hit my rear blocks, jack one corner of the rear
up and move it to the middle of the car so it will be in front of the
frame(while the other side is still behind the front wheel assembly)
and then just swing out the frame-then moved
the stack of blocks back to the corner instead of the middle.
Obviously this would take longer, so if you have 2X12s use em! It is
reverse for reinstallation.. You are
probably way past removal, but I just figured I would throw my
methodology in to perhaps give some future ideas. I'm
sure I have some photos of what this would look
like, if you want to see just drop me a line off list. -Dani B. #5003




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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:31:18 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <martin_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Re: Transmission Quetion

The other major cause is the front/back pivot bolt bending or coming 
loose, or having been fudged in the past. For some reason this always 
affects second! We've also had 1-2 synchro die for this reason.

Open ended question: Why is it only second that's affected in the 
majority of cases?

Martin

Dave Swingle wrote:

>Probably the infamous broken roll pin.  
>
>There really isn't an adjustment that will compansate for this, there 
>is a roll pin on one of the shifter shafts that pushes the fork that 
>pushes the gear. Sometimes (usually due to the original poor clutch 
>hydraulic line) it get sheared off from trying to get the trans in 
>gear without the clutch fully dis-engaged. 
>





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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:07:00 -0500
From: "Mike Polzin" <MPolzin_at_dml_sen.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Manual Shifting questions - Now Idle issues

Well, I completed the adjustment on the transmission cable this weekend.
After initially lengthening the cable - getting back 5th, but losing
Reverse, first and second - I shortened it 1/4 turn until I had everything,
so life is now good. I took the car out driving and put about 100 miles on
it and it shifts very smoothly.

I am still having problems with a high idle. I tested the frequency valve
and it is good. The car was idling warm around 2000 RPM's, and I started to
mess with the plug that goes to the idle speed motor and the RPM's suddenly
dropped down to a steady 900 RPM's... I thought great, the connections are
dirty, easy fix! So I cleaned up the connections, plugged it back in and I
was back at 2000 RPM's, and no amount of playing with the plug would change
anything.

After taking the car out for a spin, it was then idling at 3000 RPMs. I am
pretty sure the mixture is off because the exhaust smells bad, and it is
sucking gas at an unreal rate. I tried adjusting the mixture screw because I
am sure it had already been tampered with but couldn't get the mixture screw
to budge... I snapped my hex key trying. Now I need to figure out how to get
the head of the hex key out of there.

>From what I've given, does anyone have any suggestions on how to diagnose
this? I'm confused as to why that mixture screw won't move either.

Thanks in advance..

Mike Polzin



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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:16:42 -0500
From: "Joseph Kuchan" <josephkuchan_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Frame restoration

Rustoleum "rusty metal primer" (as opposed to their "clean metal primer") is 
a fish-oil product. As for running up hill against gravity, I assume what 
happens there is it is drawn across the face of the metal by capillary 
action.

-Joe

>From: nicholden_at_dml_yahoo.com
>Subject: [DML] Re: Frame restoration
>
>Hi, Just thought i'd let you know what i ended up doing in the areas
>on the frame that couldnt be accessed by the sand blaster(ie inside
>engine cradle etc)....
>
>I rang around and spoke to a few rust proofing guys and they
>sugessted the use of 'Fish oil'.



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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:30:01 -0700
From: "delorean3502" <delorean_at_dml_charter.net>
Subject: Re: Gas Mileage

If your car is adjusted right this is not a concern, mine makes between 25 & 
27 on the highway and 20 or better in town, not bad for a 23 year old car.
Lloyd #3502




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Message: 10
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 18:46:47 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Frame restoration

On a lot of older cars that have closed box sections in the frame the
general recomendation is to drill a small hole at the top and pour
some used motor oil inside. As you drive it will slosh back and forth
and work it's way into all the hidden areas. It won't "fix" any rust
but it will stop it from getting any worse. I have seen this done on
old Jaguars which have 2 side box sections in the center of the car on
the left and the right. When they rust out the car literally bends in
half.  Putting the oil inside helps according to the Jaguar people.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 18:33:35 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Gas Mileage

Except for keeping the motor in tune and the tires properly inflated
there isn't really much you can do. Don't have the car full of excess
junk that adds weight, you *could* overinflate the tires, drive evenly
and stay under 45 MPH, no quick acceleration, etc. On a 5-speed the
general MPG is around 25 and the automatic a little lower. Of course
this is very dependant on the way you drive.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 19:02:22 -0000
From: "secret_jedi_guy" <secret_jedi_guy_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Brake light trouble 3

Okay I have diagnosed the problem and I need a new circuit board and 
a new fuse.  The problem is that I can't find the right fuse at any 
automotive or hardware store. It is the glass 12 amp fuse that is 
held by the pedals in the plastic/vynl case.  Where can I find a 
replacement fuse?  If it is on the DMC Houston site tell me where to 
find it cuz I can't.  Thanks for the help.

VIN: 01223




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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 19:45:47 -0000
From: "gzapf" <x86Daddy_at_dml_myrealbox.com>
Subject: Blower Speeds 1 & 2 out

When I switch my blower fan speed to 1 or 2, I get no air flow...  3
and 4 work properly.  Searching the archive, I found a lot of the
opposite, which went back to the separate relays for 3 and 4.  I also
don't see relays listed for fan speeds 1 & 2....  are they controlled
by the circuit braker?  Anyone had this before?

Thanks,
--Greg




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Message: 14
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 19:05:24 -0000
From: "wayofcain" <wayofcain_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Steering Column Bushing shortcut

Hello,

Saturday vin2835 lost the steering column bushing. It seems that 
somewhere I read of a shortcut to getting a new one in there that 
bypassed the removal of the column. I believe it involved cutting the 
bushing and using some good old epoxy.

I have searched and searched with no luck finding the message. Anyone 
who might know where the message is or what the procedure is please 
contact me at wayofcain(at)yahoo.com. I am curious to know if the 
bushing has held up after being split.

Oh, and not to worry DMC purists, I just plan on doing this for a 
quick fix for a festival this weekend then I will tear it down and 
properly insert a new bushing.

Cain Grimes
002835




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Message: 15
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 15:58:55 -0400
From: "Marvin" <marv_at_dml_printeddrinkware.com>
Subject: warning to non-mechanics (gas tank)

In disclosing one's stupidity, it is hoped that other non-mechanics working on their DeLoreans, do not follow my scenario. 

When replacing the lower 2 coolant lines located behind the skid plate, the plate must be removed. After replacing the 2 hoses, the plate must be immediately reinstalled. If you don't, and decide to drive your car to make sure the hoses do not leak (as I did) you will end up having one big headache. The back of the gas tank will slide downwards, out of the car, gas will pour out of the hole caused by the tank rubbing against the roadway, the fire dept. will be called to lay down gas absorbent material, the city sweeper / washer will be called in to flush away the line of gas trailing from 2 miles away, and basically you will feel like the idiot you are. Don't even think about the 10 gallons of gas you just put into the tank, which is now bone dry.

The neighbors will love to run out and see the red fire truck with all the lights flashing, and watch with amazement at the asphalt version of a Zamboni.

Well at least I verified that the tank was spotlessly clean, prior to the incident.

Anyone have a good, cheap gas tank with the foam attached?

Anyone have a suggestion how the new one will fit in, when the old one won't come completely out?

Oh ya, and my insurance man just called, and wants to see the car, to verify the wonderful appraisal I had sent in, showing how great it's condition is.

Marv.
# 17077
marv_at_dml_printeddrinkware.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Message: 16
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 01:01:04 -0000
From: "Tom Porter" <treehouse2000us_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Gas Mileage

With a lot of DeLoreans on the list getting in the mid 20's (22-
26mpg), I dont think its a major concern at all.  I've read on the 
DML where people were hitting around 30mpg for long trips at moderate 
speeds.  If the car is out of tune, cars has been doccumented getting 
15 or even less miles per gallon, which is sad, but far from the 
norm.  Gotta remeber, while they lack lots of power, the PRV is still 
a 6 cylinder, which usualy dont get as great milege as the 4 bangers 
in Hondas and other small imports.  I say if your getting above 20mpg 
in a 20 year old car, your doing excelent.  Of course, expect about a 
3-6 mpg drop in milege for the automatic cars...

Tom Porter
Dreaming of a DMC



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