From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2268
Date: Sunday, October 10, 2004 7:56 AM


There are 21 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Bill Robertson's engine(s) (was Chevy Engine Swap)
From: "Louie" <louie_at_dml_delorean.com>

2. Re: Insurance
From: "Louie" <louie_at_dml_delorean.com>

3. Re: Re: Chevy Engine swap
From: Thomas Mc Auley <dmc4087_at_dml_yahoo.co.uk>

4. Re: Lockzilla or WingsAloft???
From: "Tom Watkins" <dmctom_at_dml_earthlink.net>

5. Re: blue/yellow wire on starter solenoid
From: Martin Gutkowski <martin_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

6. Re: Continued: PRV vs Repower
From: Martin Gutkowski <martin_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

7. Seat cover sets and seats (was: Side Stripe Controversy)
From: "James" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

8. Re: Door handles (revised link)
From: "James" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

9. Seat cover stitching color (was: Re: Side Stripe Controversy)
From: "James" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

10. Re: Which year to purchase, 81 or 82
From: "James" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

11. Straight skinny on fuel accumulators
From: "James" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

12. Re: BATTERY LIGHT ON
From: "James" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

13. Engine swaps
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

14. DeLorean Dignity
From: "secret_jedi_guy" <secret_jedi_guy_at_dml_yahoo.com>

15. Re: Re: Chevy Engine swap
From: "at88mph" <at88mph_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>

16. Re: Backlit Dashes?
From: Andrew <aos+yahoo_at_dml_boom.net>

17. Interesting new warehouse find...
From: "James" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

18. Re: DeLorean Dignity
From: Noah <sitz_at_dml_onastick.net>

19. Re: DeLorean Dignity
From: Chris Shepherd <chrisau79_at_dml_yahoo.com>

20. RE: Straight skinny on fuel accumulators
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

21. Re: Chevy Engine swap
From: "usndmc" <usndmc_at_dml_yahoo.com>





Message: 1
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 06:36:15 -0000
From: "Louie" <louie_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Bill Robertson's engine(s) (was Chevy Engine Swap)



I thought I'd take this time to clear the air some about Bill 
Robertson's car and the engines it has had. I hear people talk all 
of the time about the "crazy" things Bill does to his engine. 

First of all his DeLorean came with a replacement Renault PRV 
installed. His car's original DeLorean PRV melted down sometime in 
the mid '80s, and at that time it was replaced with a Renault 2.7 
Liter PRV rated at 145hp. He didn't do this to his car, that's the 
way it came. Though at first glance his engine looked original, it 
in fact had no Lambda and was altogether a different engine.

Second he didn't carburete his PRV. He bought a crate carbureted 
Pugeot engine off ebay that he installed in his car. His original 
plan was to buy a new DeLorean without an engine and transplant it 
into that. But his Renault PRV developed a Valdeze-esque oil leak 
and so Bill decided to just go ahead and use that engine on his 
current DeLorean. He didn't hack apart a stock DeLorean engine and 
shove in a carbureter, he implanted into his DeLorean a PRV that was 
DESIGNED and ENGINEERED to be carbureted. The only changes Bill made 
to this engine was to replace the original engine's single barrel 
carb with a double barrel. This engine was actually different enough 
from the stock DeLorean's that he had to fabricate new motor mounts.

All I'm asking is before you judge Bill have your facts straight 
first. He does think out of the box and I think that's a good thing. 
People complain all of the time about lack of performance options, 
and lack of variety of places to buy parts for their cars, yet they 
denounce people like Bill, VideoBob, and John Hervey. But it's these 
people who question the status quo that will bring more options to 
the DeLorean table. Even though occasionally guys like these will 
fall on their faces with something they try, but their thinking 
outside of the box benefits us all. I guess all I'm asking for is a 
little more respect for our fellow owners, and to have your facts 
straight before you criticize one another. We really should all be 
allies in this DeLorean thing.

Louie Golden
VIN 5252 Charlotte, NC








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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 06:38:43 -0000
From: "Louie" <louie_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Re: Insurance



When my car was totalled they came up with a replacement cost, which 
is NEGOTIABLE by the way. They tried to offer me $13k for my car but 
I ended up with $20k in the end (plus the money I got from the 
ensuing lawsuit from the drunk who hit me). The insurance company 
will then offer you to buy the car back for 25% of that agreed 
replacement cost. So as badly damaged as my car was, I felt that was 
too much. 

But that's not your last chance. Your car will then go to auction. 
Keep on top of your insurance company about it, or your car will get 
away from you. I found out that my car went for $1800 on the auction 
block... talk about sickening for me. But it's in the hands of 
another owner at least, who is using it to bring his back to life. 
So the lesson is be a tough negotiator and be extremely vigilant of 
the process.

Louie Golden 
VIN 5252 Charlotte, NC









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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:40:16 +0100 (BST)
From: Thomas Mc Auley <dmc4087_at_dml_yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Re: Chevy Engine swap


Doesnt that rotary one keep coming up for sale every now and again? And is the price of the custom jobbies not reflecting the cost put into them, especially the V8's? I thought it was around $20,000 to buy and install a Northstar.
 
The PRV is a good and reliable engine, thats why it was used. Why not go with a twin turbo? The legend industries version turned out amazing. 
 
Anyone who says the PRV's are unreliable have to have their head examined! My car was sitting for 10 odd years and after some work like cleaning out the injectors, new oil etc, it fired up (still does first time!). The Volvos with the same engines are still going after 200,000 miles. These engines will last for lightyears!

I'd be cautious of buying one with a different engine!
 
Thomas
Vin #4087
Northern Ireland
ryanpwright <dmcnews_list_at_dml_ryanwright.com> wrote:



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Joe OBrien" wrote:
> 
> You will also de-value the car terribly. And just hope you never 
> expect much resale from it. If the engine runs well, only minimal 
> maintenance keeps it running great. Just reviving them after a 20 
> year slumber sometimes takes a little tweaking. Your car will thank 
> you for it. Go buy a camaro for 2 grand to run into the ground, they 
> already come with a 305 V8 usually. Spare the Delorean it's dignity.
> 

No, you won't de-value the car terribly. Come on, you folks haven't
watched custom DeLoreans sell before? That rotary DeLorean went for
$32k, did it not? I've seen V8 powered DeLoreans sell in the high 20's
- low 30's, quite a bit more than the ~$15-20k they would have been
worth otherwise.

You WILL be catering to a more limited market by abandoning the
purists, but only slightly so. The additional interest from the
general public (people looking for a super fast car) would far
outweigh that loss.

-Ryan





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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 08:59:56 -0400
From: "Tom Watkins" <dmctom_at_dml_earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Lockzilla or WingsAloft???


Darryl,

My goal in this discussion was not to compare the products or to slam anyone.   I was offering the original questioner some advise as to the types of responses he may get to his post about which system to get.   Again, there are compelling advantages to each system and I will say once more.....we should honor the work these folks have done into making these products for us to choose.  Toby has an advantage in that his system is on the market now and appears to be selling very well.    Because I choose to wait for the Zilla launcher is by no means a dig.   Trying to pit one against the other is a waste of time and not worthy of our discussion.    If you want a door opener system now, by all means contact Toby...his system obviously works well and is in many cars.    If you are like me and have all the other Zilla products and wish to get Bob's system with no adapters and extra key fobs then wait.  It's really that simple.  We could agrue all day about the systems, whose is better etc.....but with Bob's not on the market iat this time t's not really a discussion that can take place as the only thing to talk about is actuators vs. solendoids which has been debated endlessly.   


Tom Watkins
dmctom_at_dml_earthlink.net
Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 15:11:52 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <martin_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: blue/yellow wire on starter solenoid


This powers the relay at the front/left of the engine bay to give the 
coil a bit more current when cranking. It also powers the cold start 
valve via the thermotime switch.

Only when cranking in both cases.

Martin

Matt Spittle wrote:

>
>What is the function of the blue/yellow wire on the starter 
>solenoid?  Does this wire get +12V when the vehicle is running ONLY, 
>or only when cranking, or both?
>
>thanks,
>
>Matt
>#1604
>







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Message: 6
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 15:19:34 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <martin_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Continued: PRV vs Repower


>
>
>One thing to consider about calling a repowered DeLo a "DeLorean":
>nothing sounds quite like a normally aspirated PRV. They make noises
>as distinctive as an air cooled VW. Even my modified exhaust can't
>mask it. 
>
Bill, you do realise that this is very common on all PRV's and relates 
to the manifold gaskets having failed..... ?

When I first met Steve, the author of www.renaultalpine.co.uk and saw 
his car for the first time, we immediately started talking manifold 
gaskets becuase his (carb'd 2.85) were leaking!

Martin






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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 14:53:23 -0000
From: "James" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: Seat cover sets and seats (was: Side Stripe Controversy)



The reproduction seat covers that we had made are available from PJ
Grady, Delorean Motor Center as well as ourselves.

A pair of correct leather/vinyl covers with correct color stitching
for $599.00 in black:

http://www.usadmc.com/dmcstore/BuyNow.asp?PartID=2521&Qty=1

Or, a pair of correct leather/vinyl covers with correct color
stitching for $599.00 in gray:

http://www.usadmc.com/dmcstore/BuyNow.asp?PartID=2522&Qty=1

The vinyl for the sides of the seats (only the actual seating surfaces
are leather, as per original) hasn't been made for years, so we had a
new die made to have the vinyl reproduced. This will soon lead to
other interior trim pieces being available again, as well.

Incidentally, if you would just rather get complete SEATS (less backs,
tracks and release bars) already recovered with the new leather/vinyl
covers, they are available as well for just $699 per seat or $1199 per
pair. No core required (we don't need/want your old seats back).

Black:
http://www.usadmc.com/dmcstore/BuyNow.asp?PartID=3264&Qty=1

Gray:
http://www.usadmc.com/dmcstore/BuyNow.asp?PartID=2391&Qty=1

As with the covers, these are also available from PJ Grady and
DeLorean Motor Center.

Regards,

James Espey

------------------------------------
DeLorean Motor Company
Vice President
james_at_dml_delorean.com
15023 Eddie Drive
Humble, Texas 77396 USA
tel: 800/872-3621
tel2:281/441-2537
fax: 281/441-2813
http://www.delorean.com
------------------------------------

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Namlemez" <thecal_at_dml_o...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Not to derail the thread, but where might one find reproduction vinyvl
> seat covers?  I was thinking about trying a repair kit but have low
> hopes for it and hadn't heard there were reproduction covers available.









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Message: 8
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 14:55:14 -0000
From: "James" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: Re: Door handles (revised link)



Obviously, this link should have read:

http://www.delorean.com/dmcstore/BuyNow.asp?PartID=184&Qty=1

Thanks to those who pointed out my typo!

James Espey
DeLorean Motor Company (Texas)
http://www.delorean.com
800/USA-DMC1
281/441-2537

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "James" <james_at_dml_u...> wrote:
>  
> Willem -
> 
> New metal door handle assemblies are available from all of the proper
> vendors, including ourselves.
> 
> http://www.udelorean.com/dmcstore/BuyNow.asp?PartID=184&Qty=1
> 
> They come with illustrated instructions and can be installed easily in
> an hour or so with basic tools.
> 
> Incidentally, they come with a lifetime guarantee, regardless of WHO
> owns the car.
> 









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Message: 9
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 15:05:01 -0000
From: "James" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: Seat cover stitching color (was: Re: Side Stripe Controversy)



You bring up a good point about the seat cover stitching color...allow
me to explain.

We ordered a large batch of seat covers from our supplier, and because
of their lead times and shipping times, we asked for and received a
small batch (I think it was five sets of each color black and gray) to
handle some early back orders.

The black ones were fine, but we noticed the stitching color on the
grey ones was slightly incorrect. We notified the supplier and they
corrected it for the rest of production run.

As I said, the black ones were always correct, and now all the grey
ones are as well. The price of the seats and seat covers are now well
down from their prices as recently as a year or so ago.

Regards,

James Espey
DeLorean Motor Company (Texas)
http://www.delorean.com
800/USA-DMC1
281/441-2537

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "dmcorlando2003" <SundeQuick_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> 
(snip)
> 
> There are correct seat covers being reproduced by DMCH that, from 
> what I understand apart from the striching color are exact to 
> originals (ie. leather seating serfaces and vinyl sides and back)  
> There are NO correct side stripes being produced by anyone.  
> 
(snip)










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Message: 10
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 15:38:12 -0000
From: "James" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: Re: Which year to purchase, 81 or 82



Gary -

You should get more than a few replies to this, but here's my take on it.

Model year is not as important (generally speaking, and I'll explain
later) as the QUALITY and QUANTITY of RECENT service history.

QUALITY means the parts that were used were the correct ones, and that
generally means proper NOS or reproduction parts. Ask for copies of
the receipts, as well. SOME but not all cross reference parts may be
acceptable. This is where it gets tricky.

QUANTITY means if the car was stored for a long period of time, did
the current owner simply replace the fuel pump, or did they do a
complete fuel tank service? Severe fuel system contamination might
also mean that the injectors and fuel distributor require attention.
You don't want that on YOUR list of things to do (and pay for).

RECENT means within the last year or so, as a general rule. If someone
did a fuel tank service a year ago, but has now let the car sit since
that time, odds are at least SOME of the work done will need re-doing.

Mileage is another thing to think about. Rare is the DeLorean that has
as few miles on it as the odometer would have you believe. Low mileage
DeLoreans are not that rare, and in some cases a DeLorean with 60,000
miles may be a better car than one with 6,000 miles on it. Again,
that's where the quantity and quality of the recent service history is
important. 

These are just examples and I could go on and on about the things we
see here on any one of the 30-40 cars that are here at any given time
for service or restoration.

In the past six months or so, we've sold about a dozen DeLoreans to
local Texas owners and shipped two to the United Kingdom.

http://www.delorean.com/sales.asp

The cars that we sell have a documented history of quality, recent
service and their prices reflect that. Other people see the prices we
are getting for the cars and conclude that their cars are worth the
same. That is not always the case.

In regards to the model year, while there are literally HUNDREDS of
minor differences between an early 1981 and a late 1982, you will
notice very few of them. As far as a car with "upgrades", you'll find
that a lot of DeLoreans are on their second (or third or fourth) owner
and many of the things like front end recalls, metal header bottle,
relay updates, window motors, etc have already been completed. If you
limit yourself to one model year (or hood style, or radio antenna
style, etc) you'll be severely limiting your choices of cars.

Which brings up another thing. When I bought my first DeLorean, I had
looked at two or three before I bought one. I drove 600 miles each way
to look at one that was a complete dog. As I purchased mine, it was
the only one that I could find in the Phoenix metropolitan area that
was available. Many people may have only one to look at it in their
immediate area and if they aren't familiar with them, that means that
they won't know if it's good or bad. It's not like other, more common,
collector cars (Mustangs, Corvettes, etc) that there may be a handfull
in your area to compare against each other.

Email me direct if you wish more information, or call me at the
numbers below. I'd be happy to chat with you.

Regards,

James Espey
Vice President
DeLorean Motor Company (Texas)
15023 Eddie Drive
Humble, Texas 77396 USA
http://www.delorean.com
800/USA-DMC1
281/441-2537

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "racingzoom" <racingzoom_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
> I have started to look for a Delorean to purchase.
> 
> Looking at all the updates and recalls needed on the 1981 model. 
> 
> Would it be better to search for a 1982 ?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Gary








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Message: 11
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 15:42:46 -0000
From: "James" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: Straight skinny on fuel accumulators



What's John's trying to make people think here is that the
accumulators that he sells are "better" than the NOS ones that are
available from all the other proper vendors. I did a quick check on
the sales history of this part since January 2000 and find that we
have sold 500+ of these accumulators both mail order and installed in
cars in our service facility. I see NONE that have been returned as
defective. In addition, we've been using/selling these same NOS
accumulators as far back as 1997, when we acquired the KAPAC inventory.

The point is, if these NOS accumulators are so bad, why aren't any
getting returned or at least reported to us as going bad? After nearly
eight years of using them in the shop and selling them mail order if
someone were to install one of these and have it fail later, you can
bet we would have heard about it.

Many DeLoreans are still on their first accumulator - 20+ years later.
They will not last forever - but there is no quantifiable evidence to
suggest that ones that come from our inventory of NOS units will last
any shorter amount of time than a new one. And if anyone HAS
verifiable, quantifiable evidence (meaning more than 0.5% defective
rate as quoted to me by our Bosch rep as their failure rate) I
encourage you to bring it to my attention.

Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.

James Espey
DeLorean Motor Company (Texas)
15023 Eddie Drive
Humble, Texas 77396 USA
800/USA-DMC1
http://www.delorean.com
Serving DeLorean owners with parts AND service since 1981

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_s...> wrote:
> 
> Rich,
(snip)
> Warranty like that can be offered with brand new
> parts not NOS parts.
> John Hervey








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Message: 12
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 15:53:56 -0000
From: "James" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: Re: BATTERY LIGHT ON



Have you contacted the company you bought it from? They should always
be your first line of defense when you have a problem with a product.
They should be willing and able to stand behind it and walk/talk you
through any problems that you have with it. Many times I have seen
where people will ask the DML first - and I'm not sure why. Do they
think the supplier will try to "wiggle" out of responsibility for it?
Is out of warranty? Either way, they *should* know their product
better than anyone else.

You mention that it is a 140amp alternator. A few years back, we had
tried a couple (2 or 3) 140 alternators from John Hervey and
experienced the same symptoms that you describe. We had one on our
former company black painted car as a tester and it died on us at a
car show in Austin - 2+ hours from home - not a fun time. In his
defense, he was pretty good about replacing them for us, but we
decided to go with a different supplier and have had good luck with
them. We sell the rebuilt Motorola 90amp alternators (exchange only)
and a new 105amp alternator (outright) that meets *almost* everyones's
needs. We put a special 180amp alternator in the show car because it
has all the super whiz-bang stereo/electronic stuff in it from the
same supplier and have had good luck with it, too.

Let me know if you need any advice if your supplier can't or won't
help you out. Stephen, Warren, Bill or any of our techs will be happy
to talk you through it on the phone or via email.

Regards,

James Espey
DeLorean Motor Company (Texas)
15023 Eddie Drive
Humble, Texas 77396 USA
800/USA-DMC1
http://www.delorean.com


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, John Podlewski <john_podlewski_at_dml_y...>
wrote:
> 
> Battery light (discharge light) comes on under load (brand new
140Amp. Alt.) and new belt.
> When over 3000 r.p.m's about 8 on the meter, A/C on, lights on used
to be around 13!
> But then fans shut down at the same time the light comes on then the
fans come back on  and the discharge light goes out once I back off
the power.
> Seems to be related all wires seem to be tight and clean but I could
always re-check any suggestions?
> Could the battery not be charged completely just out storage (30
days) from all the Hurricanes?
> Starts fine, though.









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Message: 13
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 09:00:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Engine swaps


It would take a good amount of money to reproduce the
Legend Twin Turbo..  And when your done, you will
still have something that is just as much (if not
more) odd-ball than a conversion.

I spent over a year investigating the options for more
power in a DeLorean.  And every new angle I took, my
conclusion was always that an engine swap was the way
to go.  I admit, I never took resale value in to
consideration.

The DMCH engine is a reasonable alternative for
someone who wants an easy solution that is well
recognized, but for my needs it was too expensive for
the claimed improvements..  I will however agree that
if your concern is resale value, either a well
recognized turbo kit (like Island Twin Turbo), or the
DMCH engine are the best options.

If you have deep pockets, and want to stick with the
PRV there are plenty of options you can import from
Europe.

For me, I will continue to work on my conversion
project with hopes of making it such that others can
copy my work.

Marc


--- Thomas Mc Auley <dmc4087_at_dml_yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

<SNIP>
> The PRV is a good and reliable engine, thats why it
> was used. Why not go with a twin turbo? The legend
> industries version turned out amazing. 
<SNIP>


		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 





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Message: 14
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 17:36:06 -0000
From: "secret_jedi_guy" <secret_jedi_guy_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: DeLorean Dignity


[Moderator Note: Obviously this post will insult hundreds of people on the DML.  Please keep in mind that this anonymous person is simply expressing an opinion.  On the DML we do allow our subscribers to express opinions, and past experience has shown that no hot-tempered response or witty retort will change his/her mind.  -Mike Substelny DML moderator of the week]

Look I didn't mean to "offend the faith of the purists."  When I got 
the car I knew exactly what I was getting.  What I didn't expect was 
about $389 for a shop job to replace six heater hoses.  The problem 
was the ENGINE and the LOCATION of the hoses, he also said that any 
other fixes would cost the same or more because of the awkward 
design.  In asking for info about an engine swap, I was not looking 
for a slugfest about how I will devalue the car, and how I must not 
have known what kind of car it was, or what I was getting.  I am not 
planning on selling it.  The PRV is FRENCH.  The FRENCH haven't 
produced U.S. emmissions legal vehicles in 25 years.  That is before 
the DeLorean was built and I have all of the previous owner's 
service records that show how much of a pain it was to get it to 
pass it's smog check this year.  In dumping the PRV, I can get 
something AMERICAN that I can do most of the work on myself.

On another note, someone said that I should just spend $2000 dollars 
on an old Camaro to run into the ground and "spare the DeLorean its 
dignity."  The fact is the DeLorean looks like a Lotus and has less 
power than a VW Bug.  A car like that has NO dignity.  Now if you 
really want to say I know nothing about the car you are mistaken.  
It was intended to be a sports car to compete with the Corvette.  
You can look that up.  They went with the PRV because the cost went 
up to produce them and yes the PRV was a reliable powerplant at the 
time.  Granted, with time, effort and money I could keep my current 
PRV and have it be a reliable powerplant for another 100,000 miles 
or I could swap it for a more powerful, emissions legal, American 
engine and make the car what it WAS SUPPOSED TO BE.  You should also 
remember that this car would be NOTHING to ANYBODY except the very 
first enthusiasts if Back to the Future was never made.  It would 
just be another piece of failed automotive history, and even in Back 
to the Future they swapped the engine in 3 cars for a small block V8 
in order to get an engine growl underneath the added jet sound.

In answer to another question of whether my other mechanic friend 
would stay with me till the end.  Yes, he was the one who was going 
to help me perform the swap because has done it before with no 
problems.  I thought about turbos, but the fact is I would be stuck 
with the PRV and a twin turbo taking up space in there making it 
that much harder to work on.

Don't tell me I'm "bastardizing" it by changing the engine.  I am 
just taking an incomplete concept car and finishing it.

VIN: 1223  







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Message: 15
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 12:57:24 -0500
From: "at88mph" <at88mph_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Chevy Engine swap


I think Darkstar nailed it.  I'd like to add some more comments to my
earlier post.  I didn't do the engine/tranny swap looking to sell the car.
Truth be told, I'll probably NEVER sell the car.  It was my first car at 15
(I'm now 33)  I did the swap so I could enjoy the car.   *MY* experience
with my DeLorean was horrible.  Always breaking down and it was always the
little things.  Thank God for the DML and people like
James/David/Toby/Darryl and countless others that help all us DeLorean
owners.  Now since the Chevy/Porsche swap....no problems (yet) and I've had
the engine in since 2000 and the tranny's been in about a year now.  To me
that's reliability.

Also, ANYONE who does an engine swap knows what they're putting in there;
you'd be nuts if you didn't (ex. mine's a 4.3 Chevy out of a '94 S-10 and a
915 tranny out of a 1972 Porsche 911)  If I need parts, I know what to ask
for.  I don't care about the value of the car, whether it is now worth more
or less isn't an issue.  The fact that I can now goto any show or any place
is the enjoyment.  I didn't have that with the stock setup.  Believe me,
that alone is worth the price of the swap to me.

Now, as far as upgrading the motor.  I challenge anyone with a stock
DeLorean motor/tranny to do an upgrade to a supercharger, twin turbo, any
big hp add-on's to have the reliability of a 'well done' engine swap.
Granted, if you spend the money(and it would be A LOT) you could probably
make the PRV have 1000 hp...but your forgetting the stock tranny.  There is
the weak link.  You see postings all the time about "how can I get more HP
from the PRV?" Unless you swap out the tranny with something, it just won't
hold up.  How much are you going to spend for an engine upgrade or tranny
upgrade (which I haven't found anyone in my experience that can make the DMC
tranny hold any serious HP)  The price of an engine/tranny upgrade will be
significant and (if you can do the work yourself) cost more than a swap out.
Can someone show me a DeLorean with the original modified engine and
transmission putting over 350 rwhp RELIABILY?   Even the guy who had the V8
350 engine in Memphis said he was going through stock tranny's.

As far as weight,  the V6 4.3 weights about the same as the PRV.  I haven't
noticed any changes in the handling of the car.   I'm not sure what the
LS1/LS6 weights, but considering they're all aluminum, probably not much
more so weight wasn't as big as a factor as I thought it would be and I even
have more clearence/working room on my setup.  Also, the modifications I did
are ALL reversible!  I could throw a stock DMC tranny/engine back in there
easily.  I used the stock motor mount locations, I used the stock wiring and
bought connectors from a used DeLorean to cut up.  The connectors plug into
the harness in the engine bay so all you'd have to do is unplug the modified
ones and plug in the stock ones.  The wiring was EXTREMELY easy.  All I had
to do was get the main engine wiring harness diagram of the 4.3 and find out
what was hot/constant and hook them up to the hot/constants the DeLorean
supplied.  It isn't an electrical nightmare at all.  The hardest part was
mounting the fuel pump, and getting the tach to work.  (The tach was REALLY
easy, but it took me some time to figure it out)

Duke


>
> I think the proper phrase should be "...a poorly done engine swap with
> little to no documentation will de-value the car terribly..."
>
> Darkstar
>






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Message: 16
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 12:51:35 -0500 (CDT)
From: Andrew <aos+yahoo_at_dml_boom.net>
Subject: Re: Backlit Dashes?


On Fri, 8 Oct 2004, gzapf wrote:

> Further, I'd love to see some pictures.  The guy who ran DART sent me a 
> small photo once, but that was all I ever saw.  He also said that he 
> kept the same needles and front-lit them, rather than having light-up 
> needles... did anyone ever go beyond that?

I still have all of my pictures online:

http://fuh-q.org/~aos/photos/?album=dmc-ElGlo

The first several pictures there were my attempt to get the needles to 
light by using UV-sensitive paint.  While it worked out fine under a 
powerful UV light, the UV LEDs I used inside the car just didn't provide 
enough light to make them flouresce, so I just ended up using red bulbs.

-andrew





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Message: 17
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 18:07:35 -0000
From: "James" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: Interesting new warehouse find...



On Friday our warehouse manager came to me and said he found a 140mph
speedometer in the crates of new instrument clusters. Turns out it is
a complete 140mph "Euro-spec" instrument cluster - even has a good,
original trip reset shaft!

There were three different instruments clusters for the DeLorean
(85mph, 140mph and 240kmh) though as I know it, only the 85mph and
240kmh were ever used in production. A handful of the 140mph ones
found their way into the converted RHD cars built by Wooler Hodec for
the original DMC back in the day.

The 140mph clusters are different in other ways than just the speedos,
too. The "LAMBDA" word is missing from the cluster as is the text
"unleaded fuel only" from the fuel gauge. Euro-spec cars would not
have been fitted with catalytic converters or oxygen sensors. The fuel
gauge itself is slightly different, with a red marking as you get in
the low fuel range.

I'll get some pictures up on the website next week of all three types.

We're continuing to look through the crates for more, but odds are
that this one, possibly the last new one in the world, will not be
sold. However, we have recently reproduced a 140 speedometer face, and
are fitting it to recalibrated 85mph speedometers here. The cost is
$199 exchange.

http://www.usadmc.com/dmcstore/BuyNow.asp?PartID=2472&Qty=1

Contact me for more details...

Regards,

James Espey
------------------------------------
DeLorean Motor Company
Vice President
james_at_dml_delorean.com
15023 Eddie Drive
Humble, Texas 77396 USA
tel: 800/872-3621
tel2:281/441-2537
fax: 281/441-2813
http://www.delorean.com
Serving DeLorean owners with parts and service since 1981
------------------------------------










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Message: 18
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 17:55:00 -0400
From: Noah <sitz_at_dml_onastick.net>
Subject: Re: DeLorean Dignity


On Sat, Oct 09, 2004 at 05:36:06PM -0000, secret_jedi_guy wrote:

> planning on selling it.  The PRV is FRENCH.  The FRENCH haven't 
> produced U.S. emmissions legal vehicles in 25 years.  That is before 
> the DeLorean was built and I have all of the previous owner's 
> service records that show how much of a pain it was to get it to 
> pass it's smog check this year.

While I agree with some of your points (despite the tone), I wanted to
toss this out: I passed my emissions with flying colors the last time I
had to get it done (although it took three tries for the guy to keep the
RPMs right while he was on the dyno). I passed with so much room to
spare, it was almost comical. Totally stock engine/fuel system. (In
Virginia, for the record).

Noah
#2867





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Message: 19
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 15:49:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Shepherd <chrisau79_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: DeLorean Dignity


Hey....go for it. My only caution is that if you live in CA do your emissions law research first. I got my twin turbo because the owner found that even though the car met all the emissions standards CA wouldn't license it because he had "altered the approved exhaust system". No, I don't live in CA.
 
Chris

secret_jedi_guy <secret_jedi_guy_at_dml_yahoo.com> wrote:


[Moderator Note: Obviously this post will insult hundreds of people on the DML. Please keep in mind that this anonymous person is simply expressing an opinion. On the DML we do allow our subscribers to express opinions, and past experience has shown that no hot-tempered response or witty retort will change his/her mind. -Mike Substelny DML moderator of the week]

Look I didn't mean to "offend the faith of the purists." When I got 
the car I knew exactly what I was getting. What I didn't expect was 
about $389 for a shop job to replace six heater hoses. The problem 
was the ENGINE and the LOCATION of the hoses, he also said that any 
other fixes would cost the same or more because of the awkward 
design. In asking for info about an engine swap, I was not looking 
for a slugfest about how I will devalue the car, and how I must not 
have known what kind of car it was, or what I was getting. I am not 
planning on selling it. The PRV is FRENCH. The FRENCH haven't 
produced U.S. emmissions legal vehicles in 25 years. That is before 
the DeLorean was built and I have all of the previous owner's 
service records that show how much of a pain it was to get it to 
pass it's smog check this year. In dumping the PRV, I can get 
something AMERICAN that I can do most of the work on myself.

On another note, someone said that I should just spend $2000 dollars 
on an old Camaro to run into the ground and "spare the DeLorean its 
dignity." The fact is the DeLorean looks like a Lotus and has less 
power than a VW Bug. A car like that has NO dignity. Now if you 
really want to say I know nothing about the car you are mistaken. 
It was intended to be a sports car to compete with the Corvette. 
You can look that up. They went with the PRV because the cost went 
up to produce them and yes the PRV was a reliable powerplant at the 
time. Granted, with time, effort and money I could keep my current 
PRV and have it be a reliable powerplant for another 100,000 miles 
or I could swap it for a more powerful, emissions legal, American 
engine and make the car what it WAS SUPPOSED TO BE. You should also 
remember that this car would be NOTHING to ANYBODY except the very 
first enthusiasts if Back to the Future was never made. It would 
just be another piece of failed automotive history, and even in Back 
to the Future they swapped the engine in 3 cars for a small block V8 
in order to get an engine growl underneath the added jet sound.

In answer to another question of whether my other mechanic friend 
would stay with me till the end. Yes, he was the one who was going 
to help me perform the swap because has done it before with no 
problems. I thought about turbos, but the fact is I would be stuck 
with the PRV and a twin turbo taking up space in there making it 
that much harder to work on.

Don't tell me I'm "bastardizing" it by changing the engine. I am 
just taking an incomplete concept car and finishing it.

VIN: 1223 





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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 20
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 18:40:24 -0500
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Straight skinny on fuel accumulators


No, James. What I am trying to inform people on is that there is a
difference in ( New ) like in brand new fresh and someone saying ( New ) and
they are really ( NOS ) 20 year old parts. Anything which has a rubber seals
inside them will become harden and brittle and dry out over time. The seals
are in contact with metal inside and the rubber material is out gassing all
the time. Not counting the storage from Hot to cold and humidity. All these
factors pay a part in the life of the product.
Just like the clutch master cylinders also.
Reliable sources have told me they quit using the NOS accumulators because
of the failure rate and went back to New. For $10.00 difference in price and
all the trouble it takes to replace them, then I will leave it up to the
customers which ones they want to put in their car. Same way with clutch
master cylinders, again I have been told my more than one person that they
failed in less than 6 months and was told it was something in their system
and it wouldn't be replaced no charge.
If you want to miss lead people by saying ( New ) not NOS like they really
are then that's your business and you will have to contend with it, but I
will tell it like it is. I will warranty the New Bosch accumulators for 5
years or any reasonable length of time and as well the new rebuilt clutch
master cylinders.
We use fresh new rubber seals in our clutch master cylinders so you can get
maximum life and we will replace them No Charge if they fail with in any
reasonable length of time. Say 2,3 5 years. My personal driver car had about
50,000 miles on it before the clutch seal failed, so why wouldn't a ( new )
replacement not do the same thing.
If you and the group would like to read up on Rubber and related products
that have seals, then here is the link.
http://www.epm.com/storage.htm
John Hervey
www.specialtauto.com





-----Original Message-----
From: James [mailto:james_at_dml_usadmc.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 9:43 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Straight skinny on fuel accumulators





What's John's trying to make people think here is that the
accumulators that he sells are "better" than the NOS ones that are
available from all the other proper vendors. I did a quick check on
the sales history of this part since January 2000 and find that we
have sold 500+ of these accumulators both mail order and installed in
cars in our service facility. I see NONE that have been returned as
defective. In addition, we've been using/selling these same NOS
accumulators as far back as 1997, when we acquired the KAPAC inventory.

The point is, if these NOS accumulators are so bad, why aren't any
getting returned or at least reported to us as going bad? After nearly
eight years of using them in the shop and selling them mail order if
someone were to install one of these and have it fail later, you can
bet we would have heard about it.

Many DeLoreans are still on their first accumulator - 20+ years later.
They will not last forever - but there is no quantifiable evidence to
suggest that ones that come from our inventory of NOS units will last
any shorter amount of time than a new one. And if anyone HAS
verifiable, quantifiable evidence (meaning more than 0.5% defective
rate as quoted to me by our Bosch rep as their failure rate) I
encourage you to bring it to my attention.

Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.

James Espey
DeLorean Motor Company (Texas)
15023 Eddie Drive
Humble, Texas 77396 USA
800/USA-DMC1
http://www.delorean.com
Serving DeLorean owners with parts AND service since 1981





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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 21
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 23:50:49 -0000
From: "usndmc" <usndmc_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Chevy Engine swap


    I'm mostly a lurker because I'm not yet mechanically savvy enough 
to offer anyone technical advice in good conscience, but I'm gonna 
throw in my non-technical opinion on a few different things here; 
I've not got much else to do while standing a 12-hour squadron duty 
officer watch on a Saturday in the middle of a perfectly good 3 day 
weekend, with nobody working and not a single plane in the air.
    Sure I think it's obvious that Videobob has a bit of an overly 
capitalistic nature compared to many of us on here, but hey, is it 
really that bad? If you don't want to support him, just don't buy 
what he's selling! I've never met him but he still sounds like a good 
guy.
    I've had many thoughts back and forth about to what extent I'd 
allow myself to modify my car from stock, because I want to try to 
keep it nearly identical in the big picture sense to most of the 
other DeLoreans out there, and I get so many people that ask about it 
at stores in parking lots, etc. and want to see it that I like being 
able to show them "The DeLorean" the way it pretty much came off the 
line. But how many of us haven't pulled up next to a Corvette at a 
stoplight and just WISHED that we could play with him? So if you do 
an engine swap in your car for more power, good on you. After all, 
it's your car. Myself, I just take solace in the fact that while I'm 
stopped next to that Corvette, all eyes at the intersection are on me 
and not him. I think it's great that you guys through out your 
opinions on the matter but they did seem kinda harsh for a guy who 
was just asking the opinion of the list for another more powerful 
powerplant to fit in his car, and I stress HIS car (or HER, of 
course), not whether or not it was morally right to swap the engine.  
And yes, I know, part of the posts were to warn him of hidden costs 
and complications, and that was good. Maybe that's just cause I've 
been reading them all back to back to back, but judging from his 
reply to all of it I think though it's obvious that we probably 
alienated a newcomer who might have been a great addition to the 
group. 
    Also on the Toby and Zilla lines (again the back to back to back 
thing) I think it's obvious that everyone who's chimed in respects 
highly both Bob Zilla and Toby and the products and contributions 
they make, it seems like it's just the same thing back and forth 
(moderator mercy?).
    Anyone, to satisfy 1 "beef" at least, thanks AGAIN :-) to all of 
you great people on this list who have helped me with all my 
intermittent problems and things so far, I'm a world away from where 
I was 7 months ago. Time to go now as the watch is almost over and 
the Gators game almost beginning--good things come to those who 
wait....for 12 hours... :-)

Dave
#5968



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "at88mph" <at88mph_at_dml_w...> wrote:
> 
> I think Darkstar nailed it.  I'd like to add some more comments to 
my
> earlier post.  I didn't do the engine/tranny swap looking to sell 
the car.
> Truth be told, I'll probably NEVER sell the car.  It was my first 
car at 15
> (I'm now 33)  I did the swap so I could enjoy the car.   *MY* 
experience
> with my DeLorean was horrible. 





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


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