From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2276
Date: Friday, October 15, 2004 7:20 AM


There are 26 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: AC compressor whining
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

2. RE: Re: AC compressor whining
From: "Joseph Kuchan" <josephkuchan_at_dml_hotmail.com>

3. Re: "use of the DMC logo"
From: "James Espey" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

4. Re: Transmission/Diff adjustment
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

5. Re: Clutch removal from Workshop Manual
From: "ryanpwright" <dmcnews_list_at_dml_ryanwright.com>

6. parts sales update
From: "lomimagic" <lomimagic_at_dml_yahoo.com>

7. RE: Re: AC compressor whining
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

8. "use of the DMC logo"
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

9. Re: "use of the DMC logo"
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

10. Re: Transmission/Diff adjustment
From: nicholden_at_dml_yahoo.com

11. Removal of old antenna?
From: "gzapf" <x86Daddy_at_dml_myrealbox.com>

12. Re: "use of the DMC logo"
From: Bob Brandys <BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com>

13. Re: "use of the DMC logo"
From: Chris Shepherd <chrisau79_at_dml_yahoo.com>

14. Re: Removal of old antenna?
From: "dmcorlando2003" <SundeQuick_at_dml_aol.com>

15. San Diego DeLorean Gatheriing update
From: Christopher Mack <christopher_mack_at_dml_yahoo.com>

16. Re: "use of the DMC logo"
From: "ryanpwright" <dmcnews_list_at_dml_ryanwright.com>

17. RE: "use of the DMC logo"
From: Kevin Abato <delorean_at_dml_abato.net>

18. Re: AC compressor whining
From: "ryanpwright" <dmcnews_list_at_dml_ryanwright.com>

19. Re: AC compressor whining
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

20. Re: "use of the DMC logo"
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

21. Re: Removal of old antenna?
From: "gzapf" <x86Daddy_at_dml_myrealbox.com>

22. Re: Re: "use of the DMC logo"
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com

23. Re: AC compressor whining
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

24. More BO (or BS) on the Logo Hoho
From: My House <BePositive2000_at_dml_Yahoo.com>

25. Re: AC compressor whining
From: "Mike" <mike.bosworth_at_dml_btinternet.com>

26. RE: "use of the DMC logo"
From: JDub <doki_pen_at_dml_yahoo.com>





Message: 1
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:09:44 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: AC compressor whining



There is a bearing that the A/C pulley rides on so the belt can turn
all the time. In fact the pulley bearing turns whether the A/C runs or
not. It *could* be bad but is not very likely. It would require
special pullers to remove the pulley and bearing and can be done in
the car without disconnecting the compressor. More likely is the
smaller idler pulley bearings are probably bad. They are easily
changed. Make sure when you get the bearings you also get an "O" ring
seal because there is a cover behind one of the bearings and you will
want to replace the seal when the cover falls off when you take one of
the pulleys off.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Are you sure it is not the belt that has dried out? This is very 
> common and a dried out belt can really squeal and often has a range 
> of noise. WD40 will last for a while on a belt. Since it stops when 
> you spray up top it is probably not the idler bearings.
> 
> If the Clutch Bearing were bad the noise would stop when the 
> compressor is on. So it is probably not the clutch bearing. If the 
> noise is there when the compressor is off and on it is probably not 
> the compressor either. It is possible that some pieces are coming 
> off the clutch fields behind the pully and causing a rub that goes 
> away with WD40 but, I think it is the belt.
> 
> Harold McElraft - 3354
> 
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "ryanpwright" <dmcnews_list_at_dml_r...> 
> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > My AC compressor is whining. Actually sounds like a screaching 
> noise...
> > 
> > - Doesn't matter whether the AC is on or off
> > - Noise varies in pitch with RPM
> > - Noise also comes and goes in same RPM band every time. I can 
> hear it
> > from 1900-2200, 2800-3000, etc.
> > - Spraying WD40 between the pulley and the compressor stops the 
> noise.
> > I have to repeat this every 1 - 2 weeks.
> > 
> > Question: Do I have to replace the compressor, or are there 
> bearings
> > or something else in there that can be repacked/replaced/etc?
> > 
> > If I have to replace the compressor, I might be wise to convert to
> > R-134A. What is involved in this procedure? I have a local A/C shop
> > that I trust enough to do some of this work.
> > 
> > Thank you,
> > 
> > -Ryan








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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 08:18:55 -0500
From: "Joseph Kuchan" <josephkuchan_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Re: AC compressor whining


I agree.

-Joe Kuchan

>From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>
>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [DML] Re: AC compressor whining
>Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 00:16:44 -0000
>
>
>
>
>Are you sure it is not the belt that has dried out? This is very
>common and a dried out belt can really squeal and often has a range
>of noise. WD40 will last for a while on a belt. Since it stops when
>you spray up top it is probably not the idler bearings.
>
>If the Clutch Bearing were bad the noise would stop when the
>compressor is on. So it is probably not the clutch bearing. If the
>noise is there when the compressor is off and on it is probably not
>the compressor either. It is possible that some pieces are coming
>off the clutch fields behind the pully and causing a rub that goes
>away with WD40 but, I think it is the belt.
>
>Harold McElraft - 3354
>
>





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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 3
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:09:25 -0500
From: "James Espey" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: Re: "use of the DMC logo"


*****  Moderator's Note  *****
Many of you have been asking for clarification from DMCH regarding
use of the DMC logo.  Well, here it is.  Thoughtful and constructive
posts on this subject will be sent through.  Those that do not
will be rejected.

*****  Mike G  Moderator of the Week 


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_y...> wrote:
>
> For 10+ years those logos were public domain, and no one had a problem
with it.

Marc raises a good point here, and while I await information from counsel on
if and how to respond to Wayne, let me say this about Marc's statement
quoted above.

It's true that for 10+ years no one had a problem with the use of the logos,
though the legalities of what is and what isn't in in the public domain are
so complex I won't attempt to comment on that.

Also during that time period, to the average person outside the DeLorean
community, the name "DeLorean Motor Company" and the DMC logo were both
symbols of a failure, associated with illegal drugs and "that flying car
from the movie".

When Stephen Wynne split from DeLorean One in 1995 and adopted "DeLorean
Motor Company" as the name for his new company, as well as began using the
logo, many people thought he was nuts to use that name. When he spoke to JZD
about using it, even he said "I hope you have better luck with it than I
did."

In the nearly ten years that have passed, Stephen Wynne has made a great
investment in promoting the positive aspects of ownership and enthusiasm for
this automobile - more so than anyone or any organization previously has
done since 1981 - and it was all done in the name of DeLorean Motor Company.

By trademarking the logo, and acting on non-licensed use of it, DMC (Texas)
is protecting that investment, much as the original DeLorean Motor Company
would have done had things worked out differently, and much as companies
like BMW, Porsche and Mercedes do today.

James Espey

------------------------------------
DeLorean Motor Company
Vice President
james_at_dml_delorean.com
15023 Eddie Drive
Humble, Texas 77396 USA
tel: 800/872-3621
tel2:281/441-2537
fax: 281/441-2813
http://www.delorean.com
------------------------------------






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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:42:48 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Transmission/Diff adjustment



If you did not turn the wheels you might be able put the nut back in
and snug it up to where it was without tightening it and moving the
bearing shell which would change the adjustment. If you did turn the
wheels the only way to get it right is to remove the diff and do the
adjustment as per the manual. With a lot of experience it is possible
to set it up in the car by feel but I cannot recomend that you try it
that way. BTW I use a centerpunch and make a light mark that way
exactly for the reason you figured out too late, ie, when you wash the
parts you remove pencil marks, magic marker, chalk, etc. As a neat way
to do it you can centerpunch the parts and then put a drop of your
wife's (or girlfriend's) nail polish in the mark so it is easy to see.
I keep several old bottles of different color red for that use and to
use as inspection marks to see if a bolt has turned or loosened.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> 
> 
> It's in the manual, unfortunately the manual will tell you to take 
> the trans completely apart and set the tension with only the 
> differential in the case. If it's too tight the bearings will wear, 
> too loose and the teeth on the gears will wear. 
> 
> It's a bit late now, but you do not have to remove that nut at all to 
> change the seals. They just come out from the outside. This was 
> 








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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:19:53 -0000
From: "ryanpwright" <dmcnews_list_at_dml_ryanwright.com>
Subject: Re: Clutch removal from Workshop Manual



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "bluemax86" <massimot_at_dml_r...> wrote:
> 
> 1. Raise vehicle on hoist
> 2. After engine exhaust has cooled, disconnect clutch line from slave
> cylinder.
> 3. Remove 2 bolts securing slave cylinder to clutch fork.
> 4. Remove slave cylinder.
> 
> So removing the slave clutch cylinder should be a piece of cake! I
> don't know what the fuss is all about :)
> 
> Max
> PS. I hope I don't get in trouble for posting part of a page from the
> manual.

They forgot a few steps:

1. Raise vehicle on hoist
1.5 Pray.
2. After engine exhaust has cooled, disconnect clutch line from slave
cylinder.
2.1: Pour a gallon of used oil over your head and go roll in the mud.
That's how you'll look when you're finished trying to get at the
stupid slave from below, so just get it overwith now.
2.2: Burn yourself on the exhaust you thought was cool.
2.3: Swear.
2.4: Finally get wrench on clutch line.
2.5. Bend rigid line too far. Swear, order a new one and find
alternate transportation for a few days.

3. Remove 2 bolts securing slave cylinder to clutch fork.
3.1: But you have to find them first.
3.2: Get your six year old to help you - his hands are small enough to
fit.
3.3: End up doing it yourself because the six year old cries when you
dangle him upside down above the engine and demand an explanation for
his inability to remove those bolts.
3.4: Shove your own hands in there, cutting them up in the process.
Realize you can't even break the bolts and swear.
3.5: In anger, use too much force and sheer the bolt heads clean off,
leaving the threads now locked into your bellhousing.

4. Remove slave cylinder.


Actually, mine was really easy. But then I had the foresight to just
pull the entire transmission out first. ;)

-Ryan








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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:50:58 -0000
From: "lomimagic" <lomimagic_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: parts sales update



Hello Everyone

For those sending questions and request, I will be off line until 
Monday and will returm mail then.

***California people******

Laguna Seca  Petit LeMans ALMS 4 hour season closer and running at 
night!!
Can you imagine dropping into the corkscrew with only headlights?

Drop by the ALMS booth in the paddock and say Hi!
Make the drive for some great racing

All Others  SPEED TV will have coverage on Sunday afternoon

See you all back her on Monday

Thanks

Tom








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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 14:12:10 -0500
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Re: AC compressor whining


The clutch as a bearing when the compressor isn't engaged that is turning.
If you look close you can see the bearing in the black pulley. These go out
quite often.
http://www.specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/images/AC-clutch-assy-1.jpg

That's why the clutch or pulley will turn and the compressor won't.
Then when the compressor is engaged (Via the clutch)it also has a bearing
which rarely goes out.
John Hervey
www.specialtauto.com






-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Kuchan [mailto:josephkuchan_at_dml_hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 7:19 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [DML] Re: AC compressor whining




I agree.

-Joe Kuchan

>From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>
>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [DML] Re: AC compressor whining
>Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 00:16:44 -0000
>
>
>
>
>Are you sure it is not the belt that has dried out? This is very
>common and a dried out belt can really squeal and often has a range
>of noise. WD40 will last for a while on a belt. Since it stops when
>you spray up top it is probably not the idler bearings.
>
>If the Clutch Bearing were bad the noise would stop when the
>compressor is on. So it is probably not the clutch bearing. If the
>noise is there when the compressor is off and on it is probably not
>the compressor either. It is possible that some pieces are coming
>off the clutch fields behind the pully and causing a rub that goes
>away with WD40 but, I think it is the belt.
>
>Harold McElraft - 3354
>
>





To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
Yahoo! Groups Links













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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:02:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: "use of the DMC logo"


See Below

--- James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com> wrote:

> It's true that for 10+ years no one had a problem
> with the use of the logos,
> though the legalities of what is and what isn't in
> in the public domain are
> so complex I won't attempt to comment on that.
> 

Why not comment?  This is the root of the entire
discussion.

Again, filing a trademark on a logo is something
anyone can do.  But will it hold up in court?  If DMCH
honestly believes that it will, then maybe you can
explain why and put this all to rest?  Because right
now it just looks like DMCH wants to bully anyone who
uses the public domain logo with threatening letters.

<SNIP>
> In the nearly ten years that have passed, Stephen
> Wynne has made a great
> investment in promoting the positive aspects of
> ownership and enthusiasm for
> this automobile - more so than anyone or any
> organization previously has
> done since 1981 - and it was all done in the name of
> DeLorean Motor Company.

If Stephen chose to reuse the logo, he is free to do
that just as many other people have over the years. 
However, that does not necessarily mean he (or DMCH)
owns it.  Whatever investment he made "promoting the
positive aspects...under the name DeLorean Motor
Company" were for his own benefit.  Bottom line, DMCH
is a business for profit, not a club or charity.

> By trademarking the logo, and acting on non-licensed
> use of it, DMC (Texas)
> is protecting that investment, much as the original
> DeLorean Motor Company
> would have done had things worked out differently,
> and much as companies
> like BMW, Porsche and Mercedes do today.

BMW, Porsche, and Mercedes logos have always been
protected.  Part of the problem of trademark law is
you need to always enforce it.  As soon as you don't,
it is public domain.  By your admission that the logos
in question pre-existed DMCH, and were public domain,
(according to the lawyer I spoke to) this makes the
current DMCH claims of ownership invalid.

If DMCH had planned on making such a huge investment
in the image of a logo, maybe it would have been wiser
to choose a unique name and logo that they could build
their own reputation on.  It has always been my guess
that the purpose was to fool customers in to thinking
that DMCH is the same DeLorean Motor Company from
1981.

FWIW, I am glad this topic continues to come up every
so often.  Because if at some point someone is willing
to challenge this trademark claim in court all of the
discussion history on the DML will be evidence that
this has always been in dispute.

Marc


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 





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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:22:23 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: "use of the DMC logo"



I would hope DMCH will allow clubs and other not-for-profit entities
the abilitly to use these logos and trademarks without charge. They
also promote the Delorean Marque and cannot pay to do that. Anyone
that would use these things for profit can afford to compensate the
legal owner. Chrysler Corp had a running legal battle for years, many
venders would use their trademarks without permission. They finally
either stopped using them or they paid licenseing fees to continue
useing them.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "James Espey" <james_at_dml_u...> wrote:
> 
> *****  Moderator's Note  *****
> Many of you have been asking for clarification from DMCH regarding
> use of the DMC logo.  Well, here it is.  Thoughtful and constructive
> posts on this subject will be sent through.  Those that do not
> will be rejected.









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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:23:07 -0000
From: nicholden_at_dml_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Transmission/Diff adjustment



I realised as soon as i had it out that i didnt have to remove the 
adjustment nut to replace the seal, that was the first side i had 
done and the gearbox had been sprayed silver before and it was 
unclear to look at what was the seal and what was the casing as it 
was all silver etc so i thought that for a change i would follow the 
workshop maunal which stated to remove the nut to change the seal.

I'll know now for next time! Unfortunatly i missed the previous 
posts about seal replacement. Is there anyway now to get an accurate 
adjustment? I can feel the backlash through the axle shaft and with 
a dial gauge i suppose could measure it..

Thanks Nick-sydney




Message: 2
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 04:12:59 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>
Subject: Re: Transmission/Diff adjustment



It's in the manual, unfortunately the manual will tell you to take 
the trans completely apart and set the tension with only the 
differential in the case. If it's too tight the bearings will wear, 
too loose and the teeth on the gears will wear. 

It's a bit late now, but you do not have to remove that nut at all 
to 
change the seals. They just come out from the outside. This was 
discussed on the list about a month ago. 

Dave S


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, nicholden_at_dml_y... wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi, I have just replaced both the diff seals in my maunal 
> transmission, the problem i have is that on the adjustment side i 
> marked the nut, counted the turns etc etc.... but while i had the 
> adjustment nut out i washed it in solvent thus removing the black 
> mark i put on it! 
> It was one of those situations where i realised what i had done a 
> second after it was in the solvent but that was to late. I looked 
> very hard for left over marks and other ways to try identify where 
> it had been but had no luck. 
> I can get it within 1/2 a turn of where it used to be but not 100% 
> accurate. Is there a way or procedure to measure the correct 
tension 
> requiured. I am presuming that this is the adjustment for backlash 
> in the diff.
> My appoligies if this is all spelt out in the workshop manual as i 
> am on my way to the garage to consult it now. 
> 
> Cheers Nick -sydney10927








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Message: 11
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:27:47 -0000
From: "gzapf" <x86Daddy_at_dml_myrealbox.com>
Subject: Removal of old antenna?



I have the right-front fender style of antenna, and I want to replace
it with something small / eurostyle like an S2000 antenna (current is
somewhat bent and ugly, sometimes getting hit by passenger door; it's
gotta go).

I removed the nut / orientation part on the top, but all I saw beneath
was a continuous antenna unit mounted to tilt with a rivet against
some bracket beneath the fender.  To put in a new antenna, do I have
to remove the fender, or is there some trick I missed?  It didn't seem
like the antenna itself would unscrew from its position.








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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 12
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:49:05 -0500
From: Bob Brandys <BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com>
Subject: Re: "use of the DMC logo"


Marc,

If my memory is correct, I believe there is some case law on this issue 
of copyright expiration.  

A number of old songs had their copyright expire.   Someone then tired 
to re copyright them and the claim was rejected.

For example,  someone tried to recopyright "happy birthday"

The same case has occurred in the area of car names.   For example, the 
name Avanti  is now Avanti II, because the first one has went out of 
business.

I believe there was also a case involving the reproduction of the 
Porsche 356.   The 356 was never copyrighted by Porsche and they let is 
go out of production.  The cases had to do with a reproduction firm in 
florida.

There is also the issue of US copyright verses international copyright.  

The name "back to the future" was only copyrighted in the US.   
Therefore, the Back to Future Club was registered in Canada.

Attempting to claim US copyright on stuff made outside of the US is not 
permitted unless it was registered.

Isn't there a DMC owner who is a lawyer and can look these cases up on 
LEXIS?  IT sure would put this issue to rest.

BOB






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Message: 13
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:53:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Shepherd <chrisau79_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: "use of the DMC logo"


As I see it DMCH is a current and defensible trademark. DMC isn't.
 
Chris

Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com> wrote:


See Below

--- James Espey wrote:

> It's true that for 10+ years no one had a problem
> with the use of the logos,
> though the legalities of what is and what isn't in
> in the public domain are
> so complex I won't attempt to comment on that.
> 

Why not comment? This is the root of the entire
discussion.

[moderator snip]





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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 14
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 23:51:16 -0000
From: "dmcorlando2003" <SundeQuick_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Removal of old antenna?



I just replaced mine.  Once you get the nut and orientation of, 
remove the claw thing that (Is that what the 'tilt' is?) so that you 
can pull the antenna cable out of the hole.  Then I cut the antenna 
off and taped the new end to theis cut of end and pul;led it through 
the car from the inside.  PLugged it into the radio and presto.  Then 
had to plug up the hole in the passenger footwell.  All told about 15 
minutes.

Michael Q
VIN #02944

Unscrew the retaining nut from the antenna --- In 
dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "gzapf" <x86Daddy_at_dml_m...> wrote:
> 
> 
> I have the right-front fender style of antenna, and I want to 
replace
> it with something small / eurostyle like an S2000 antenna (current 
is
> somewhat bent and ugly, sometimes getting hit by passenger door; 
it's
> gotta go).
> 
> I removed the nut / orientation part on the top, but all I saw 
beneath
> was a continuous antenna unit mounted to tilt with a rivet against
> some bracket beneath the fender.  To put in a new antenna, do I have
> to remove the fender, or is there some trick I missed?  It didn't 
seem
> like the antenna itself would unscrew from its position.








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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 15
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:58:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Christopher Mack <christopher_mack_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: San Diego DeLorean Gatheriing update


Hello List,
I will be getting together with some DeLorean owners
on Saturday (Oct 16) 10:00 A.M. at Bennigan's Grill &
Tavern which is located at 1760 Camino Del Rio N, San
Diego, CA 92108
Their phone number is 619-291-8853 if you need to
contact them for dirctions they Are located just off
of interstate 8 on Camino Del Rio North in San Diego.
We will meet at 10:00 am in the parking lot behind
Benniganís.  Benniganís opens at 11:00 so that we can
go there for lunch if you like
If anyone has any questions, you can email me. 
Sorry for the last minute notice.
Thanks
Chris
#6453






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Message: 16
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 00:08:55 -0000
From: "ryanpwright" <dmcnews_list_at_dml_ryanwright.com>
Subject: Re: "use of the DMC logo"



OK, I've got to post my thoughts. If there are factual inaccuracies,
please correct them - I do not claim to be an expert on this subject
nor the current situation, and am merely going off what I've read.

First, let me say that I highly respect DMCH and everything it's
founders, owners and employees have done and will continue to do for
our community. I am a very satisfied customer of this company.

That said, I have moral issues with the locking up of the DMC logo.
DMCH did not create the logo, nor purchase it from it's owners. They
just began using it and establishing themselves as new owners of it. 

Yes, this appears to be how trademarks work, though I am not an
attorney and can't say for sure. However, this recent situation with
the side stripes really bothers me. DMCH chose not to reproduce these
stripes. They then proceeded to exert their power over the DMC logo in
an effort to prevent others from reproducing them.

This is a serious issue, folks. Effectively, DMCH has complete control
over the reproduction of any parts bearing the DMC logo. As long as
DMCH chooses to push this issue, nobody will ever get perfect
reproduction side stripes. Yes, I realize John Hervey has them now,
but if it comes to it, is he willing to spend who knows how much money
fighting in court just so we can have our side stripes? Moreover,
would such a battle be good for the community? I'd hate to see such
resources wasted that could go toward building and improving the
respective businesses.

What happens in the future when a DMC labeled part dries up and DMCH
decides not to reproduce it? The side stripes are a perfect example.

What if someone comes up with a must-have accessory for the car that
looks best with, or requires, the DMC logo on it? I'm thinking of a
cool new ashtray, or glove box lid with a logo, or those lighted
DeLorean letters for the rear bumper that someone was putting
together. Would DMCH go after him?

What if someone builds a DMC labeled part that's better built, or
provides more options (colors, etc) than something DMCH makes? Think
door sills, DeLorean logo up front, etc. 

What if DMCH raises their prices, or a third party finds that he can
build equally good parts for half the cost? They may say "We'll never
do this", and I'd believe them, but some day the company's leaders
will change whether through a sale, inheritance, bankruptcy, you name
it, and then all bets are off.

My point is, there are a number of reasons why strict enforcement of
this is bad for our community. DMCH has an effective monopoly here,
and monopolies are rarely good for anybody but their owners. We have a
unique situation - most car companies are still in business, and they
don't care to share. Pontiac, for example, wouldn't let someone
produce and sell some cool accessory with the Pontiac name on it. DMCH
doesn't have to be a Pontiac. They are a small company (in the grand
scheme of things) and we are a small community. I think we need a
different approach to the use of the DMC/DeLorean names & logos.

I am not advocating we fight DMCH or try to cause them any problems -
they have been great to me, as they have to most of you. Nor am I
advocating DMCH release all interest in the DMC logo. But here's what
I'd like to see: A spirit of community and cooperation with the rest
of us. 

What do I mean by that? Well, let's go back to these side stripes. The
guy who spent the time and money to recreate them wasn't competing
with DMCH, since they don't offer them. DMCH, instead of sending a
nastygram, could have simply sent a licensing form and a nice letter
saying, "Please sign this contract and return it; We are giving you a
free license to use our logo." Then everybody wins: The guy can sell
his product, we can buy them, and DMCH enforces their trademark and
thus retains it. Shoot, worst case they could charge a couple of bucks
per item sold for the use of the logo.

This is not a can of Pepsi here, people. We can't just go out and come
up with a name or logo of our own. Our cars were designed around this
logo, and with the original DMC long gone, I believe we should all
have shared access to it in some form or another.

Now that I've spent 45 minutes writing all of this, I hope the mods
let it through, and I hope everyone finds it insightful rather than
inflammatory. I don't mean to ruffle feathers here, certainly not
DMCH's as they've treated me well. But there are hard questions that
need to be discussed. I applaud James and DMCH for engaging us in this
conversation; it shows that they are interested in the public's
opinion and thoughts, and that is major progress in the right direction.

Respectfully,

-Ryan

> 
> Marc raises a good point here, and while I await information from
counsel on
> if and how to respond to Wayne, let me say this about Marc's statement
> quoted above.
> 
> It's true that for 10+ years no one had a problem with the use of
the logos,
> though the legalities of what is and what isn't in in the public
domain are
> so complex I won't attempt to comment on that.
> 
> Also during that time period, to the average person outside the DeLorean
> community, the name "DeLorean Motor Company" and the DMC logo were both
> symbols of a failure, associated with illegal drugs and "that flying car
> from the movie".
> 
> When Stephen Wynne split from DeLorean One in 1995 and adopted "DeLorean
> Motor Company" as the name for his new company, as well as began
using the
> logo, many people thought he was nuts to use that name. When he
spoke to JZD
> about using it, even he said "I hope you have better luck with it than I
> did."
> 
> In the nearly ten years that have passed, Stephen Wynne has made a great
> investment in promoting the positive aspects of ownership and
enthusiasm for
> this automobile - more so than anyone or any organization previously has
> done since 1981 - and it was all done in the name of DeLorean Motor
Company.
> 
> By trademarking the logo, and acting on non-licensed use of it, DMC
(Texas)
> is protecting that investment, much as the original DeLorean Motor
Company
> would have done had things worked out differently, and much as companies
> like BMW, Porsche and Mercedes do today.
> 
> James Espey
> 
> ------------------------------------
> DeLorean Motor Company
> Vice President
> james_at_dml_d...
> 15023 Eddie Drive
> Humble, Texas 77396 USA
> tel: 800/872-3621
> tel2:281/441-2537
> fax: 281/441-2813
> http://www.delorean.com
> ------------------------------------








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Message: 17
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:47:31 -0400
From: Kevin Abato <delorean_at_dml_abato.net>
Subject: RE: "use of the DMC logo"


LOL...This is all interesting to read for me at this point in time!

DMCH should have just held a contest like the Mid-Atlantic club did.  We
got a lot of great ideas for logos that didn't cost much, and we had a
fun time doing it.  ;)

I will now be sure to tradmark and copyright our logo after presenting
it on Saturday.

Kevin Abato
Vin# 16680



-----Original Message-----
From: Marc Levy [mailto:malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com] 
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 1:02 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] "use of the DMC logo"




See Below

--- James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com> wrote:

> It's true that for 10+ years no one had a problem
> with the use of the logos,
> though the legalities of what is and what isn't in
> in the public domain are
> so complex I won't attempt to comment on that.
> 

Why not comment?  This is the root of the entire
discussion.

[moderator snip]





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Message: 18
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 00:12:26 -0000
From: "ryanpwright" <dmcnews_list_at_dml_ryanwright.com>
Subject: Re: AC compressor whining


How difficult is this to replace?

Any thoughts on how to find out whether it's this clutch bearing or
the idler pulley? Not that I mind replacing both, but if I can
identify which one it is somehow, that would be nice.

-Ryan

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_s...> wrote:
> 
> The clutch as a bearing when the compressor isn't engaged that is
turning.
> If you look close you can see the bearing in the black pulley. These
go out
> quite often.
> http://www.specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/images/AC-clutch-assy-1.jpg
> 
> That's why the clutch or pulley will turn and the compressor won't.
> Then when the compressor is engaged (Via the clutch)it also has a
bearing
> which rarely goes out.
> John Hervey
> www.specialtauto.com
> 
[moderator snip]





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Message: 19
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 03:54:11 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: AC compressor whining



Replacing the 2 idler pulley bearings is not a difficult job. Just
make sure to note the orientation of all the brackets, bolts, washers,
and cover. You really have to put it back together EXACTLY as it comes
apart. They should be replaced anyway, they are probably 20 years old.
If you still have the noise and the belt is good then you can assume
the A/C bearing is bad. To confirm I use a squirt bottle with water.
Spray it on the belt, if the noise goes away you have a bad pulley or
belt. Spray some WD-40 into the bearing (it isn't easy). If the noise
goes away now then you have confirmed the bearing is bad.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


-- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "ryanpwright" <dmcnews_list_at_dml_r...> wrote:
> 
> How difficult is this to replace?
> 
> Any thoughts on how to find out whether it's this clutch bearing or
> the idler pulley? Not that I mind replacing both, but if I can
> identify which one it is somehow, that would be nice.
> 
> 








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Message: 20
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 04:00:36 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: "use of the DMC logo"



All of this discussion is "all well and good" but until someone
actually challenges DMCH in court they will "get away" with claiming
ownership. In fact that is exactly the strategy. Unless we can get an
expert opinion from a trademark lawyer I don't see what more can be
added of substance to this thread. This is way more than what this
forum can deal with, it is an esoteric legal issue now. The best
advice is if you want to avoid a lengthy and costly legal battle it is
best to leave it alone. This is where the lawyers earn the "big bucks".
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "ryanpwright" <dmcnews_list_at_dml_r...> wrote:
> 
> 
> OK, I've got to post my thoughts. If there are factual inaccuracies,
> please correct them - I do not claim to be an expert on this subject









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Message: 21
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 04:28:49 -0000
From: "gzapf" <x86Daddy_at_dml_myrealbox.com>
Subject: Re: Removal of old antenna?



So from the sound of it, the antenna does not have a point where it
separates cleanly from the antenna cable?  I was wondering why I
didn't see an easy unscrew point.  :-)  I guess replacing the whole
pathway will provide best results anyway...

Thanks,
--Greg

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "dmcorlando2003" <SundeQuick_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> 
> 
> I just replaced mine.  Once you get the nut and orientation of, 
> remove the claw thing that (Is that what the 'tilt' is?) so that you 
> can pull the antenna cable out of the hole.  Then I cut the antenna 
> off and taped the new end to theis cut of end and pul;led it through 
> the car from the inside.  PLugged it into the radio and presto.  Then 
> had to plug up the hole in the passenger footwell.  All told about 15 
> minutes.
> 
> Michael Q
> VIN #02944









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Message: 22
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 00:36:04 EDT
From: deloreanernst_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: "use of the DMC logo"


In a message dated 10/14/2004 11:12:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
dmcnews_list_at_dml_ryanwright.com writes:

<<let's go back to these side stripes. The
guy who spent the  time and money to recreate them wasn't competing
with DMCH, since they  don't offer them. DMCH, instead of sending a
nastygram, could have simply  sent a licensing form and a nice letter
saying, "Please sign this contract  and return it; We are giving you a
free license to use our  logo.">>
 
Here's an idea- why doesn't DMCH "allow" others to use the logo for the  same 
valuable consideration they paid John Z. DeLorean in order to use it:  
nuttin'  BTW, I haven't seen the side stripes in question, are these the  regular 
issue ones? I do know exactly how and when DMCH obtained  the Guigiaro designs 
that never made it into production- they bought them  on ebay about 2 years 
ago. 
 
Wayne A. Ernst
11174 

 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 23
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 05:52:53 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: AC compressor whining



Why not simply replace the whole unit? Would be far easier and only
costs a little bit more off eBay. Auction #2493496418 would be a prime
candidate (transfer your current back -- fits SD 5, 508, or 510).
Sanden (same company as Sankyo) compressors are a regular fixture on
eBay, and if you're patient they sometimes pop up less than $100. Mine
was $89.95.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "ryanpwright" <dmcnews_list_at_dml_r...> wrote:
> 
> How difficult is this to replace?
> 
> Any thoughts on how to find out whether it's this clutch bearing or
> the idler pulley? Not that I mind replacing both, but if I can
> identify which one it is somehow, that would be nice.
> 
> -Ryan
> 









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Message: 24
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 00:02:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: My House <BePositive2000_at_dml_Yahoo.com>
Subject: More BO (or BS) on the Logo Hoho


After a few months of being proccupied with "romance" (OK, guys & gals,
there is more to life than cars), I have been revisiting the site the
past few days and cannot resist commenting on the copyright topic.

First, I assume John D. did copywright the logo, etc. Has anyone
researched this to be sure this is factual?  Surprisingly, this step
does fall thru the cracks and would not be the only one for the
DeLorean corporation (like, "why the little windows?")

Second, in the bankrupcy, who really ended up with copy rights?   Why
in the heck would John D. retain any asset through the bankrupcy? 
(remember the car Delorean gave to Johnny Carson being reposessed
because he (Delorean) not transfer title?)   I do not now of any other
case where a company or the owner of the company retained title to an
asset while having tens or hundreds of millions of dollars of debt.  
Was there a very sympathetic bankrupcy judge?  Is this enforceable?  

Third, was this copyright retained or renewed in accordance with US
law?  If not, the right may not be valid.

If all of the above tests are met and DMCH had the business forsight to
do what is necessary to clearly retain the copy rights, more power to
them.  The world is filled with those who say, "could of ..., should of
..." and then there are those who take the steps, take the risk, and
make the investment to be successful.  We may not like it that the logo
of a bankrupt company is being limited or being used for profitable
purposes, but that may be their legal right.

Conversely, if this right is "assumed"by DMCH and not legally required,
regardless of intention, then it's time to do the right thing, act with
integrity, and acknowledge this fact.  I suspect most that have done
business with DMCH feel they have integrity (which includes their to
their right to make a profit).  This does not mean they cannot make a
mistake.  Let's give them an opportunity to say "oops."

That said, what makes the most sense with regards to copyright issues? 
Fact is, John D and his company left a lot of companies and individuals
holding the bag for a lot of cash.  The previous owner of my car paid
$89,000 for stock which a few months later was worth "0", one of
thousands that experienced financial losses of varying degrees.  Most
are probably familiar with the oustanding turbo manfacturer that made
major investments on a false DeLorean promise only go down the tubes as
a result of this misplaced trust.   With this in mind, perhaps no one
should benefit from a logo that is symbolic of so many deceptions that
overshadowed and to this day overshadow the accomplishments of the car.
 With the many victims of John D and his management, perhaps the logo,
et. al., should stay in the public domain.










		
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Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
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Message: 25
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:36:23 -0000
From: "Mike" <mike.bosworth_at_dml_btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: AC compressor whining



Ryan

I found that to find the source of noises is to get a piece of 11/2" 
waste pipe and hold it near to where you think the noise is and 
listen...just be careful you done get it caught on anything 
running...my moneys on the lower idle pulley :)

Regards

Mike

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "ryanpwright" <dmcnews_list_at_dml_r...> 
wrote:
> 
> How difficult is this to replace?
> 
> Any thoughts on how to find out whether it's this clutch bearing or
> the idler pulley? Not that I mind replacing both, but if I can
> identify which one it is somehow, that would be nice.
> 
> -Ryan
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_s...> wrote:
> > 
> > The clutch as a bearing when the compressor isn't engaged that is
> turning.
> > If you look close you can see the bearing in the black pulley. 
These
> go out
> > quite often.
> > http://www.specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/images/AC-clutch-assy-
1.jpg
> > 
> > That's why the clutch or pulley will turn and the compressor 
won't.
> > Then when the compressor is engaged (Via the clutch)it also has a
> bearing
> > which rarely goes out.
> > John Hervey
> > www.specialtauto.com
> > 
> [moderator snip]








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Message: 26
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 00:03:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: JDub <doki_pen_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: "use of the DMC logo"


my two cents:

I'm not sure of the history here but if DMCH had
bought out the remainder of inventory directly from
DMC then I would think they probably took ownership of
the rights to the logos as well.  Like basically
selling one company to another.

If DMCH just established itself ground-up with no
agreement with DMC then I don't think they really own
the logo or even have the right to use it themselves.

I don't know if either of these is the case and I
certainly don't know any of the business history here
I just read through these emails occasionally and felt
like responding.

Jdub





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