From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2278
Date: Friday, October 15, 2004 8:14 PM


There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: AC compressor whining
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

2. Trailing Arm Bolt Removal
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

3. Trademarks
From: "Michael C. Babb" <mcb_at_dml_babbtechnology.com>

4. DMC Logo
From: "John Hicks" <johnzd81_at_dml_yahoo.com>

5. Auto to Manual!!!
From: Thomas Mc Auley <dmc4087_at_dml_yahoo.co.uk>

6. Re: "use of the DMC logo"
From: "ryanpwright" <dmcnews_list_at_dml_ryanwright.com>

7. Blame JZD?
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

8. Re: AC compressor whining
From: "ryanpwright" <dmcnews_list_at_dml_ryanwright.com>

9. Re: Trailing Arm Bolt Removal
From: Noah <sitz_at_dml_onastick.net>

10. Re: Auto to Manual!!!
From: "John Rydholm" <ebondefender_at_dml_yahoo.com>

11. RE: Trailing Arm Bolt Removal
From: "Joseph Kuchan" <josephkuchan_at_dml_hotmail.com>

12. Trademarks, and DMCH
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

13. Changing oil question
From: "secret_jedi_guy" <secret_jedi_guy_at_dml_yahoo.com>

14. Re: Rough Idle
From: "John Rydholm" <ebondefender_at_dml_yahoo.com>

15. Re: DMC Logo
From: "aaron_t_graham" <aaron_t_graham_at_dml_yahoo.com>

16. Re: Changing oil question
From: "thebrave65" <johnnysher1_at_dml_cox.net>

17. Re: Changing oil question
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

18. Re: Rough Idle
From: "secret_jedi_guy" <secret_jedi_guy_at_dml_yahoo.com>

19. Re: Trailing Arm Bolt Removal
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

20. Re: Trademarks, and DMCH
From: "cbl1739" <cbl302_at_dml_sbcglobal.net>

21. Protecting the DMC Name
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>

22. Re: Replacing A/C Compressor
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

23. Re: Re: Rough Idle
From: Todd Nelson <tan5732_at_dml_rit.edu>

24. Re: Main Battery Ground
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

25. The Trailing Arm Bolt Saga
From: "artbywarren" <artbywarren_at_dml_yahoo.com>





Message: 1
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:08:00 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: AC compressor whining



Replacing the "whole unit" is not as simple as it may sound. You would
have to remove the refrigerent, replace the "whole unit", vacuum the
system, and then recharge with refrigerent. The removing and refilling
with refrigerent is a bigger job than just replacing the bearing and I
suspect the bearing isn't even bad. Buying a used compressor is no
guarantee that the bearing in the new one is any better than what you
already have! This is like killing a fly with a shotgun.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Why not simply replace the whole unit? Would be far easier and only
> costs a little bit more off eBay. Auction #2493496418 would be a prime
> candidate (transfer your current back -- fits SD 5, 508, or 510).
> Sanden (same company as Sankyo) compressors are a regular fixture on
> eBay, and if you're patient they sometimes pop up less than $100.  
>9
> 
> 








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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 2
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:27:06 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Trailing Arm Bolt Removal



In the continuing saga of the restoration of 7138 I attempted removal
of the trailing arm bolts starting with the passenger side. I removed
the nut (which seemed loose and came off easily) but I couldn't turn
the bolt. I couldn't move the trailing arm off the bolt, I couldn't
separate anything enough to cut the bolt. I thought the large flat
washer under the head of the bolt would keep me from getting the whole
mess with the mount and bushing out through the frame. I spoke to Rob
Grady and he said it should fit through the hole so I removed the
mounting screws for the bushing and I was able to force the washer
through. I then took the whole mess to a shop to press out the bolt.
It turns out the bolt would turn inside the bushing but it was SOLID
in the trailing arm. The shop was very surprised when it took 20 TONS
to break it loose and get it out of the trailing arm. It turns out
also that the bolt was bent by the head and corroded inside the
trailing arm. I point this out mainly to illustrate that if you are
still driving on the origional trailing arm bolts you may be flirting
with disaster. This is a hidden area that most owners and mechanics
ignore. "Out of sight-Out of mind". I highly recomend that every owner
have this critical area inspected at least once by someone who knows
what to look for and what they are looking at. I also want to mention
that I decided to go with the Toby "TABS" on this car. I just got them
today and they look very professional. They are probably "overkill"
but in this area which is so often overlooked and neglected maybe this
is "just what the Doctor ordered". BTW when I took the bushing mount
off the battery ground is under one of the bolts. It was all corroded.
It will be cleaned up but it is just another area that needs to be
attended to. This would have caused electrical problems. Most owners
have never seen the underside of their cars but everything under there
is VERY IMPORTANT. 
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 3
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:56:20 -0400
From: "Michael C. Babb" <mcb_at_dml_babbtechnology.com>
Subject: Trademarks


With all of the talk on Trademarks, I decided to cruise back by 
www.uspto.gov (the United States Patent and Trademark office), and along 
with a SLEW of DMC trademarks (most having nothing whatsoever to do with 
DeLoreans, I did notice something interesting:

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=oo8l2j.3.1

Seems that on September 22, 2004 the trade name "DeLorean Automobile 
Company" was registered by Ephesians 6:12, Inc in care of one John Z. 
DeLorean of New York.

This same "company" also had the trademark for the stylized "DeLorean" 
text (like on the back bumpers) 
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=oo8l2j.3.3 which is now 
a trademark of DMC-Texas

BTW: here is the Trademark record for the DMC logo: 
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/jumpto?f=doc&state=oo8l2j.7.112

Cheers,

Michael





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 4
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:31:23 -0000
From: "John Hicks" <johnzd81_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: DMC Logo



Sorry, but this thread is getting a little boring.

I do feel I have a bit of expertise in this area having just 
patented an invention, and exploring the correct way to promote and 
register my trademark so it is defendable.  Patenting and 
trademarking is arduous if you decide to go it alone, just wading 
through the legalese stops most people dead in their tracks.

You do not copyright a logo. Period.  Copyright protects 
intellectual property such as documents.  To copyright a document, 
you merely add "Copyright yyyy by (your name, organization etc...) 
and your material is protected for 99 years.  Copyrights are non-
renewable.  Laws against plagerism protect copyrighted materials 
from being "re-written" and re-copyrighted.

Logos require a "Registered" Trademark issued by the US Patent and 
Trademark Office (www.uspto.com).  You may also get an international 
trademark issued (i.e. Nike, MBA, DMC etc....)  If you go to the 
USPTO site, and do a Trademark search for DMC, you will find the 
trademark is dead.  (here's a direct link) 

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?
state=1mn974.4.1&f=toc&a_search=&p_s_ALL=DMC

In order to obtain a registered trademark for your logo, the logo 
must be actively used in commerce, you then provide proofs that you 
are using a unique logo in commerce, via photos or samples of the 
logo on the product, or the product packaging.

If you follow the above link, and click on DeLorean Motor Company, 
you will see the Logo is considered dead, no one owns the logo at 
this time, or has any legal claim to it under US law.  At this time, 
there do not appear to be any new applications for the logo pending, 
so DMCH, even though they are using the logo actively in commerce, 
does not have a legal claim that would hold up in court.  

John VIN 1674








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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 5
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:02:45 +0100 (BST)
From: Thomas Mc Auley <dmc4087_at_dml_yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Auto to Manual!!!


Hello! I am thinking of swopping my automatic for a manual, and I want to use De Lorean bits etc. The linkage for a manual seems to cost too much from www.delorean.com, so I was wondering if anyone was thinking of swapping their manual to an auto, and we could swap parts.
 
Thanks,
Thomas,
Vin 4087
Belfast

		
---------------------------------
 ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:50:21 -0000
From: "ryanpwright" <dmcnews_list_at_dml_ryanwright.com>
Subject: Re: "use of the DMC logo"



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
> By signing such a contract, you would be recognizing
> DMCH as the true owner of the trademark.
> 

For someone selling a single item in his free time, this beats
fighting it out in court.

This also assumes DMCH does own the trademark. If not, the contract
wouldn't be worth the paper it was printed on. However, even if the
outcome of this entire ordeal is "Yes, they own it", I think they have
a moral obligation to play nice with the rest of us.

Just my two bucks worth (inflation, and all)..

-Ryan








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 7
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 05:36:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Blame JZD?


Wow, talk about changing the subject!

Why do you blame JZD and his management for the
failure of the company?


--- My House <BePositive2000_at_dml_Yahoo.com> wrote:
<SNIP>
>  With the many victims of John D and his management,
> perhaps the logo,
> et. al., should stay in the public domain.



		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 8
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:00:21 -0000
From: "ryanpwright" <dmcnews_list_at_dml_ryanwright.com>
Subject: Re: AC compressor whining



Thank you for your replies.

> belt. Spray some WD-40 into the bearing (it isn't easy). If the 
> noise goes away now then you have confirmed the bearing is bad.

How difficult is "isn't easy"? I've been spraying the wd40 between the
pulley and the compressor. Any chance I'm hitting the bearing?

Bill: Thanks for the info on the compressors. I did not know they
could be found so cheaply. The last compressor I bought (for my Fiero)
was $400, and compressors from the vendors are all over $250. For
$100, I agree with you - might as well replace the whole thing.

You said "transfer your current back" - what's that mean? Are you
talking about the pulley? How difficult is that to do?

Thank you,

-Ryan


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Replacing the 2 idler pulley bearings is not a difficult job. Just
> make sure to note the orientation of all the brackets, bolts, washers,
> and cover. You really have to put it back together EXACTLY as it comes
> apart. They should be replaced anyway, they are probably 20 years old.
> If you still have the noise and the belt is good then you can assume
> the A/C bearing is bad. To confirm I use a squirt bottle with water.
> Spray it on the belt, if the noise goes away you have a bad pulley or
> belt. Spray some WD-40 into the bearing (it isn't easy). If the noise
> goes away now then you have confirmed the bearing is bad.
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757
> 
> 
> -- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "ryanpwright" <dmcnews_list_at_dml_r...> wrote:
> > 
> > How difficult is this to replace?
> > 
> > Any thoughts on how to find out whether it's this clutch bearing or
> > the idler pulley? Not that I mind replacing both, but if I can
> > identify which one it is somehow, that would be nice.
> > 
> >








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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 9
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:53:30 -0400
From: Noah <sitz_at_dml_onastick.net>
Subject: Re: Trailing Arm Bolt Removal


On Fri, Oct 15, 2004 at 02:27:06PM -0000, David Teitelbaum wrote:
 
> It turns out the bolt would turn inside the bushing but it was SOLID
> in the trailing arm. The shop was very surprised when it took 20 TONS
> to break it loose and get it out of the trailing arm. It turns out
> also that the bolt was bent by the head and corroded inside the
> trailing arm. 


Just for the sake of illustration, any chance of pics of the bad
bolts?

> This would have caused electrical problems. Most owners
> have never seen the underside of their cars but everything under there
> is VERY IMPORTANT. 

I agree completely; my car "looked" fine, but I went out and bought
tobytabs regardless, just for peace of mind. Low and behold, the
driver-side bolt was bent (not much; was able to pry it out with a LOT
of leverage and a little blood/swearing). 


--noah
#2867

-- 
<huey> dd of=/dev/fd0 if=/dev/flippy bs=1024
<huey> ^^^ Making Flippy Floppy






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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 10
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:20:14 -0000
From: "John Rydholm" <ebondefender_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Auto to Manual!!!



I would change it if I were you. I heard that the little computer 
modules in the Auto trans DeLoreans give out after about 40K miles or 
so...I actually never drove a stick before I got my DMC-12 and now I 
love it! I taught myself in about 1/2 hour. Besides sticks are more 
fun- unless you're in rush hour traffic.
 
--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Thomas Mc Auley <dmc4087_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
> Hello! I am thinking of swopping my automatic for a manual, and I 
want to use De Lorean bits etc. The linkage for a manual seems to 
cost too much from www.delorean.com, so I was wondering if anyone was 
thinking of swapping their manual to an auto, and we could swap parts.
>  
> Thanks,
> Thomas,
> Vin 4087
> Belfast









________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 11
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:01:02 -0500
From: "Joseph Kuchan" <josephkuchan_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Trailing Arm Bolt Removal


I want to echo Dave's recommendation to make sure that trailing arms and 
bolts are in perfect condition.

We had the same situation with my son's car. On principle we planned a Toby 
TAB transplant. One side came out with no difficluty at all, but on one side 
we had to saw through the bolt to drop the trailing arm. There was a 20 ton 
arbor press a few feet away so we tried to press the bolt out, but "no soap" 
- wouldn't budge.

The car is generally in very good condition and from the outside everything 
looked fine. The only way to tell that something was amiss was to try to 
turn the trailing arm bolts.

A new trailing arm went in along with Toby TABS with a thin coating of 
antiseize on the smooth part of the bolt that needs to pivot inside the 
trailing arm.

-Joe Kuchan

>From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [DML] Trailing Arm Bolt Removal
>Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:27:06 -0000
>
>
>
>
>In the continuing saga of the restoration of 7138 I attempted removal
>of the trailing arm bolts starting with the passenger side. I removed
>the nut (which seemed loose and came off easily) but I couldn't turn
>the bolt. I couldn't move the trailing arm off the bolt, I couldn't
>separate anything enough to cut the bolt. I thought the large flat
>washer under the head of the bolt would keep me from getting the whole
>mess with the mount and bushing out through the frame. I spoke to Rob
>Grady and he said it should fit through the hole so I removed the
>mounting screws for the bushing and I was able to force the washer
>through. I then took the whole mess to a shop to press out the bolt.
>It turns out the bolt would turn inside the bushing but it was SOLID
>in the trailing arm. The shop was very surprised when it took 20 TONS
>to break it loose and get it out of the trailing arm. It turns out
>also that the bolt was bent by the head and corroded inside the
>trailing arm. I point this out mainly to illustrate that if you are
>still driving on the origional trailing arm bolts you may be flirting
>with disaster. This is a hidden area that most owners and mechanics
>ignore. "Out of sight-Out of mind". I highly recomend that every owner
>have this critical area inspected at least once by someone who knows
>what to look for and what they are looking at. I also want to mention
>that I decided to go with the Toby "TABS" on this car. I just got them
>today and they look very professional. They are probably "overkill"
>but in this area which is so often overlooked and neglected maybe this
>is "just what the Doctor ordered". BTW when I took the bushing mount
>off the battery ground is under one of the bolts. It was all corroded.
>It will be cleaned up but it is just another area that needs to be
>attended to. This would have caused electrical problems. Most owners
>have never seen the underside of their cars but everything under there
>is VERY IMPORTANT.
>David Teitelbaum
>vin 10757
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
>moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
>For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com
>
>To search the archives or view files, log in at 
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 12
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:04:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Trademarks, and DMCH


I don't remember seeing DMCH claim they also owned the
STYLIZED FORM of "DeLorean".. Just the Logo.

Although, I see they did register it LAST YEAR
December, 2003.  See serial number 78344118.  

The registration serial 76165416 from Ephesians 6:12
expired March 18, 2003..  Which would explain why DMCH
would re-register it December 2003.   However, it has
again been public domain for 10+ years.  It is
difficult if not impossible to enforce a trademark
registration when the logo use predates the
registration.

Serial Number 75756108 is the DMCH registered "DMC"
logo.  Which, use also predates the existence of DMCH.
 
http://tess2.uspto.gov/webaka/images/75756108.gif

Serial Number 73162366 is the trademark of the logo as
it appears on the front grill of the car.  This
trademark expired in 1985, and I see no claims of
current ownership for it. 
http://tess2.uspto.gov/webaka/images/73162366.gif

With all that said, each time this topic comes up I
again think about why it even matters..  The same
conclusion every time, it boils down to greed on the
part of DMCH.  Greed in not such an awful thing, but
as with all of the other faults I have discussed over
the years with the way DMCH (and other "vendors")
conduct themselves, It is my opinion that they take it
too far..  In defense of DMCH, one of the new
"vendors" on the scene makes them look like a DeLorean
charity!  LOL


--- "Michael C. Babb" <mcb_at_dml_babbtechnology.com> wrote:

<SNIP>
> 
> This same "company" also had the trademark for the
> stylized "DeLorean" 
> text (like on the back bumpers) 
>
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=oo8l2j.3.3
> which is now 
> a trademark of DMC-Texas
<SNIP>


		
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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 13
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:26:04 -0000
From: "secret_jedi_guy" <secret_jedi_guy_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Changing oil question



Don't worry about the spark plugs I got them all done myself.  It 
just took some work to get at the ones on the left side.  Well now 
I'm trying to change the oil, but I can't figure out how to get the 
plug out of the oil pan.  It looks like it just has a square hole 
where you put in a ratched with no socket and unscrew it that way, 
but everything I've tried is either too small or too big.  It looks 
like the same plug on the transmission fluid pan but it is hard to 
see.  Is there a special tool to get the plug out?

Thanks for the help

Japheth VIN: 1223








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 14
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:15:53 -0000
From: "John Rydholm" <ebondefender_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Rough Idle



I have a very similar problem to yours, Shannon. My car usually does 
~900-950 idle and has been fluctuating back and forth a bit like it 
wants to stall. I have also had times when I step on the gas, and it 
accelerated much slower than normal even in 1st. I tried putting fuel 
injector cleaner in my tank, and now I'm going to try replacing all 6 
sparkplugs with Bosch-platinums. I REALLY hope it's not my fuel pump, 
as I have a faint whine behind the dash/hood area. (Of course I 
suppose that's an excuse for a Tankzilla or something- if only I 
could afford that.)

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "birdwell77095" <birdwells_at_dml_u...> 
wrote:
> 
> 
> My car normally idles at about 900 RPM. In the last couple of days 
it 
> will drop slightly then rev back up. When I press the accelerator 
the 
> engine will rev up roughly for about a second before smoothing out. 
> Could this be a slight leak in a vacuum hose? This started a day 
> after I refueled. Could it be bad gasoline?
> 
> Shannon








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 15
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 19:06:31 -0000
From: "aaron_t_graham" <aaron_t_graham_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: DMC Logo



I found it: (searched for delorean)

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=elfpo9.2.4

Registration Number  	2491848
Registration Date 	September 25, 2001
Owner 	(REGISTRANT) DeLorean Motor Company CORPORATION TEXAS 10804
Roark Road Houston TEXAS 77099

Aaron
#1506

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "John Hicks" <johnzd81_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Sorry, but this thread is getting a little boring.
> 
> I do feel I have a bit of expertise in this area having just 
> patented an invention, and exploring the correct way to promote and 
> register my trademark so it is defendable.  Patenting and 
> trademarking is arduous if you decide to go it alone, just wading 
> through the legalese stops most people dead in their tracks.
> 
> You do not copyright a logo. Period.  Copyright protects 
> intellectual property such as documents.  To copyright a document, 
> you merely add "Copyright yyyy by (your name, organization etc...) 
> and your material is protected for 99 years.  Copyrights are non-
> renewable.  Laws against plagerism protect copyrighted materials 
> from being "re-written" and re-copyrighted.
> 
> Logos require a "Registered" Trademark issued by the US Patent and 
> Trademark Office (www.uspto.com).  You may also get an international 
> trademark issued (i.e. Nike, MBA, DMC etc....)  If you go to the 
> USPTO site, and do a Trademark search for DMC, you will find the 
> trademark is dead.  (here's a direct link) 
> 
> http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?
> state=1mn974.4.1&f=toc&a_search=&p_s_ALL=DMC
> 
> In order to obtain a registered trademark for your logo, the logo 
> must be actively used in commerce, you then provide proofs that you 
> are using a unique logo in commerce, via photos or samples of the 
> logo on the product, or the product packaging.
> 
> If you follow the above link, and click on DeLorean Motor Company, 
> you will see the Logo is considered dead, no one owns the logo at 
> this time, or has any legal claim to it under US law.  At this time, 
> there do not appear to be any new applications for the logo pending, 
> so DMCH, even though they are using the logo actively in commerce, 
> does not have a legal claim that would hold up in court.  
> 
> John VIN 1674








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 16
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 19:20:54 -0000
From: "thebrave65" <johnnysher1_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: Re: Changing oil question



Yes you need a special tool to remove the plugs.  You can grind a 
socket wrench down, you can buy the tool from Snap-On or from one of 
the vendors.

Dude, do yourself a favor and read the archives.  This has been 
mentioned many, many times over and has all of the needed info you 
are hungry for - including the part number for the Snap-On tool.

Trust me.  Take the time to read them over and you'll end up 
finishing the work on your car a lot faster!

Johnny
5518
> 
> 
> Don't worry about the spark plugs I got them all done myself.  It 
> just took some work to get at the ones on the left side.  Well now 
> I'm trying to change the oil, but I can't figure out how to get the 
> plug out of the oil pan.  It looks like it just has a square hole 
> where you put in a ratched with no socket and unscrew it that way, 
> but everything I've tried is either too small or too big.  It looks 
> like the same plug on the transmission fluid pan but it is hard to 
> see.  Is there a special tool to get the plug out?
> 
> Thanks for the help
> 
> Japheth VIN: 1223








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Message: 17
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 19:40:43 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Changing oil question



You do need a "special" adapter. It can be made out of (I think) 5/16
square keystock but the adapter is a perfect fit. Snap-On has it or
you can buy it from your favorite Delorean vender along with 2 oil
filters, one for now and one for the next time. BTW when you buy the
filters from the "D" venders they include a new sealing washer for the
drain plug. You may want to change the drain plug for a magnetic one.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757 


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "secret_jedi_guy"
<secret_jedi_guy_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Don't worry about the spark plugs I got them all done myself.  It 
> just took some work to get at the ones on the left side.  Well now 
> I'm trying to change the oil, but I can't figure out how to get the 
> plug out of the oil pan.  It looks like it just has a square hole 
> where you put in a ratched with no socket and unscrew it that way, 









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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 18
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 19:41:16 -0000
From: "secret_jedi_guy" <secret_jedi_guy_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Rough Idle



My idle was somewhat awkward last week as well.  When I started my 
car it started really rough and the RPM's jumped from about 500 to 
750 and then it died.  It almost felt like it was misfiring.  I had 
to start it about four times and then it smoothed itself out at 900 
RPM's.  In another post I said that I just replaced my spark plugs 
so I know that those are probably what caused it.  I broke those in 
really good last night and it runs fine now.  

Another problem is your engine my have some condensation in it.  
That happend to me once to.  I washed it and some water got into the 
air intake on top.  It would not start cold for a while and I had to 
play with it a little to get the water out of it, but that caused 
simial idle problems.

My advice would be to check for any loose connections on the spark 
plugs, and see if you can find any traces of water in the engine.  

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "John Rydholm" <ebondefender_at_dml_y...> 
wrote:
> 
> 
> I have a very similar problem to yours, Shannon. My car usually 
does 
> ~900-950 idle and has been fluctuating back and forth a bit like 
it 
> wants to stall. I have also had times when I step on the gas, and 
it 
> accelerated much slower than normal even in 1st. I tried putting 
fuel 
> injector cleaner in my tank, and now I'm going to try replacing 
all 6 
> sparkplugs with Bosch-platinums. I REALLY hope it's not my fuel 
pump, 
> as I have a faint whine behind the dash/hood area. (Of course I 
> suppose that's an excuse for a Tankzilla or something- if only I 
> could afford that.)
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "birdwell77095" <birdwells_at_dml_u...> 
> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > My car normally idles at about 900 RPM. In the last couple of 
days 
> it 
> > will drop slightly then rev back up. When I press the 
accelerator 
> the 
> > engine will rev up roughly for about a second before smoothing 
out. 
> > Could this be a slight leak in a vacuum hose? This started a day 
> > after I refueled. Could it be bad gasoline?
> > 
> > Shannon








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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 19
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 19:45:15 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Trailing Arm Bolt Removal



You wouldn't really be able to tell much from pictures, it looked fine
from the outside and all the corrosion fell out when the bolt was
pressed out. This is kind of like a time-lifed item as on aircraft. On
aircraft they throw away perfectly good looking parts but because of
the many cycles that a part has gone through they are replaced before
they can fail. I believe that this is the best policy for this
critical fastener.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Noah <sitz_at_dml_o...> wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Oct 15, 2004 at 02:27:06PM -0000, David Teitelbaum wrote:
>  
> > turn








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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 20
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:10:33 -0000
From: "cbl1739" <cbl302_at_dml_sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Trademarks, and DMCH



Here is the perfect solution,for DMCH.


No disrespect to you James or DMCH,but why not just add just add the 
Roman numerals II as in  DMC II  as your trademark logo and Delorean 
Motor Company II, as your business,so that anybody and everybody 
would know that you are NOT the original company from 1981,as the  
name Delorean One(the company),distinguishes itself from being known 
as the "original company" by using the above name or as Mark L. says, 
are you are trying to blur the picture between the original company 
and your business.
Using the above would distinguish DMCH as its own RIGHT to exist,on 
its own merits,whether for good or bad,or in between.Much in the same 
matter as AVANTI II has done for itself, as its own company,promoting 
and selling the original style AVANTI,but using the numerals II in 
the AVANTI name to distinguish itself from the original company
(ironic as JZD used to work for Studebaker)
If DMCH truly wants to be "fair" with the Delorean Community and with 
other vendors,they would simply start using DMC II as their logo,and 
call themselves Delorean Motor Company II, rather than DMC or 
Delorean Motor Company.
On another note,in the past I had bought out entire inventories from 
defunct business,but I NEVER was given the right to use their defunct 
business names or logo,and that was a direct purchase from a defunct 
company,DMCH bought their inventory from a second party!!   With no 
direct purchase from JZD or from the original Delorean Motor Co.
If I was a vendor I would have EVERY right to use the DMC logo as 
dmch has.
Hell,I am surprised James did not notice in the TV movie,that was 
shown this past summer,they used the EXACT DMC(as they use it) logo 
on the I.D.Badges worn by the actors in the made for TV 
movie "Earthquake"

Regards
Claude





--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
> I don't remember seeing DMCH claim they also owned the
> STYLIZED FORM of "DeLorean".. Just the Logo.
> 
> Although, I see they did register it LAST YEAR
> December, 2003.  See serial number 78344118.  
> 
> The registration serial 76165416 from Ephesians 6:12
> expired March 18, 2003..  Which would explain why DMCH
> would re-register it December 2003.   However, it has
> again been public domain for 10+ years.  It is
> difficult if not impossible to enforce a trademark
> registration when the logo use predates the
> registration.
> 
> Serial Number 75756108 is the DMCH registered "DMC"
> logo.  Which, use also predates the existence of DMCH.
>  
> http://tess2.uspto.gov/webaka/images/75756108.gif
> 
> Serial Number 73162366 is the trademark of the logo as
> it appears on the front grill of the car.  This
> trademark expired in 1985, and I see no claims of
> current ownership for it. 
> http://tess2.uspto.gov/webaka/images/73162366.gif
> 
> With all that said, each time this topic comes up I
> again think about why it even matters..  The same
> conclusion every time, it boils down to greed on the
> part of DMCH.  Greed in not such an awful thing, but
> as with all of the other faults I have discussed over
> the years with the way DMCH (and other "vendors")
> conduct themselves, It is my opinion that they take it
> too far..  In defense of DMCH, one of the new
> "vendors" on the scene makes them look like a DeLorean
> charity!  LOL
> 
> 
> --- "Michael C. Babb" <mcb_at_dml_b...> wrote:
> 
> <SNIP>
> > 
> > This same "company" also had the trademark for the
> > stylized "DeLorean" 
> > text (like on the back bumpers) 
> >
> http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=oo8l2j.3.3
> > which is now 
> > a trademark of DMC-Texas
> <SNIP>
> 
> 
> 		
> _______________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
> http://vote.yahoo.com








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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 21
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:17:56 -0400
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>
Subject: Protecting the DMC Name


Marc Levy speculated about the motivation for protecting the DMC name:

>With all that said, each time this topic comes up I
>again think about why it even matters..  The same
>conclusion every time, it boils down to greed on the
>part of DMCH.
>
With all due respect, protecting the DMC name, logo, and image MATTER 
VERY MUCH TO ME as a DeLorean owner.

What could be more important to the community of DeLorean enthusiasts 
than protecting the DMC name and logo?  Anyone familiar with the 
DeLorean saga knows that parts, hardware, even body dies can be remade, 
but a reputation is destroyed forever.

I want to see someone, anyone, protect the DMC name and logo.  But 
regardless of who offers it or the legal strength supporting it, I 
cannot imagine anything more dangerous to our community than these 
constant and unrelenting attacks on this protection.  These assaults 
cannot possibly lead to any enhancement in prestige or responsible use 
of the name and logo, the only possible outcome is destruction and 
irresponsible use.  I would consider that a tragedy.

I have tried to rationalize the motivation behind this belligerence 
toward something so important to all of us, but I cannot reach a certain 
answer.  Because I am a moderator on this list as well as a concerned 
DeLorean owner, I shall politely refrain from the sort of defamatory 
speculation  I quoted in the opening of this message.

Mike Substelny
VIN 1280, 10 years






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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 22
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:22:06 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Replacing A/C Compressor



Mine was New In Box, actually. And it cost $99, not $89.95 (confused
my memory with an Autozone rebuilt for one of my other vehicles).

Vacuuming & recharging A/C is no great feat. I've done so many times
(BTW: I recently put a vacuum gauge on one of my Lincolns for the
first time in 10 years of ownership -- 22 inches. Very close to
28.whatever).

I consider whole unit replacement closer to "throw away consumerism"
than "killing flies with a shotgun". If the cost or workload were
higher I would indeed go the repair route.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Replacing the "whole unit" is not as simple as it may sound. You would
> have to remove the refrigerent, replace the "whole unit", vacuum the
> system, and then recharge with refrigerent. The removing and refilling
> with refrigerent is a bigger job than just replacing the bearing and I
> suspect the bearing isn't even bad. Buying a used compressor is no
> guarantee that the bearing in the new one is any better than what you
> already have! This is like killing a fly with a shotgun.
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757
> 









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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 23
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:37:48 -0400
From: Todd Nelson <tan5732_at_dml_rit.edu>
Subject: Re: Re: Rough Idle


I have noticed similar issues with other cars relating to the oxygen sensor, 
I would assume similar symptoms would happen with the DeLorean.  What I have 
had to do to fix it was disconnect the sensor when having issues, then the 
car would work fine.  The problems I have had are really intermittent too, 
so I would look into the oxygen sensor, possibly replacing it.

Good luck
Todd


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Rydholm" <ebondefender_at_dml_yahoo.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 2:15 PM
Subject: [DML] Re: Rough Idle


>
>
>
> I have a very similar problem to yours, Shannon. My car usually does
> ~900-950 idle and has been fluctuating back and forth a bit like it
> wants to stall. I have also had times when I step on the gas, and it
> accelerated much slower than normal even in 1st. I tried putting fuel
> injector cleaner in my tank, and now I'm going to try replacing all 6
> sparkplugs with Bosch-platinums. I REALLY hope it's not my fuel pump,
> as I have a faint whine behind the dash/hood area. (Of course I
> suppose that's an excuse for a Tankzilla or something- if only I
> could afford that.)
>
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "birdwell77095" <birdwells_at_dml_u...>
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> My car normally idles at about 900 RPM. In the last couple of days
> it
>> will drop slightly then rev back up. When I press the accelerator
> the
>> engine will rev up roughly for about a second before smoothing out.
>> Could this be a slight leak in a vacuum hose? This started a day
>> after I refueled. Could it be bad gasoline?
>>
>> Shannon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see 
> www.dmcnews.com
>
> To search the archives or view files, log in at 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 24
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:38:34 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Main Battery Ground



That's actually the single most important ground point on the car.
Lose it and the entire vehicle goes electrically dead -- every single
circuit.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> wrote:
> 
> BTW when I took the bushing mount
> off the battery ground is under one of the bolts. It was all corroded.
> It will be cleaned up but it is just another area that needs to be
> attended to. This would have caused electrical problems. Most owners
> have never seen the underside of their cars but everything under there
> is VERY IMPORTANT. 
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757








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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 25
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 21:21:00 -0000
From: "artbywarren" <artbywarren_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: The Trailing Arm Bolt Saga



I happened to see some discussion on the subject of TAB's within the 
last couple of days, and I'd like to pose my own questions about them.
First And Foremost!.. when I give these examples, I'm only relaying 
facts. I am not saying anything good or bad about the people involved 
or the advice they gave me. Again, I'm only relaying what happened. 

OK... herewego..

When the car was in Rob Grady's possession in 2002, he noted in his 
file that "the rear trailing arm bolts were bent" but unfortunatly, 
they were not replaced before the car was returned (previous owner's 
fault, not Rob's). Well, when I got the paperwork for myself from PJ 
Grady's during the "Do I wanna buy this car?" stage of the game, I 
saw that and it worried me.. a lot! Since then, though, we've had so 
many things go wrong with the car that we've forgotten about the 
TAB's, believe it or not.  So far we've:

Fixed a hole that had corroded through the engine block.

Gotten the fuel contamination problem taken care of (all that 
entails).

Had the Transmission serviced (It was shifting so hard that it 
actually busted the trans. mounts, one of which was already cracked) 
Still shifts somewhat hard, but half the people tell me  "Aw! It's 
GOOD for it! That's the way it's supposed to be!"  then the other 
half say  "Woah-ho! Kinda harsh shift! better rebuild 'er!" ..then 
half the people tell me "Why replace the CPU govener? The hardness is 
vaccuum controlled. The CPU only controls WHEN it shifts!" ..then 
more people tell me  "Replace the CPU govener, it'll smooth out the 
hard shift." 

Anyway...

Had a coolant pipe repaired after the steering column actually rubbed 
a hole in it somehow.

Drivers side window motor regulator replaced, the classic steering 
bushing at the firewall, thermal time switch, starting coil, exhaust 
leak (right side), tires, brakes & rotors, 2 batteries (in a year), 
ect..

LOL! No, I'm not ragging on my car, I love her. I'm just surprised at 
the stuff I've had to do. OK, anyway.. the BOLTS!:

Once it came time, I bought a set of the mid-grade ones (Not the 
TOBY's but the next rung down) to have them put in. Well, when I took 
it to the clinic (side note: when I say "the Clinic", I am referring 
to a local shop called the Sports Car Clinic that I had never heard 
of until 2 other DeLorean owners in my "area" highly reccommended 
them, and with good reason) ..when I took it to them, I was hopping 
up and down about these bolts... 

but when they located the bolts, they were like "Uh.. there's nothing 
wrong with them." ..

bear in mind.. PERFECT chance to make some money on the labor... why 
should they care? ..nope.  

I asked them point blank  "OK.. you're looking at the TRAILING ARM 
BOLTS, correct?" ... "Yes, sir, Mark, the owner, has a good deal of 
experience with the DMC, both in the early 80's when they first came 
out, and through the years. The bolts are fine, sir. Your vehicle is 
safe."  Baffled, I asked Rob. He seemed concerned, but sort of middle-
of-the-road about it all. He replied: "Eh.. it's your call, they may 
have only been slightly bent"  which did make me feel better, as Rob 
always does.

This all took place in the last months of 2003. Nowadays, the car is, 
naturally, running very well, and she purrs happily at her new home. 
Recently, however, I am getting a sort of a "thump" coming from about 
the middle of the car when driving on very curvy roads. 

Rear Wheel bearings? ... Something loose in the trunk?  ...or  
Trailing arm bolts so bent that something's knocking? (hey! That was 
suggested!)

Again, what do to?  The clinic checked again under the car last week. 
The report? It still has very little rust (what it does have is 
surface rust which I will be taking care of) and again:  "Sirrr!  The 
bolts are FINE!"

I know most of you are going to say "Well, you bought 'em! just 
replace them anyway!"  but I'm not entirely sure I trust anyone but 
Rob to do this, and I can't send him my car right now. ..but I need 
to drive her because of the history of fuel problems!

Are these noises just the body moans of a 21 year old car? Am I going 
to be driving my car one day and the bolts give out and I crash and 
possibly die?  ..Do some bolts just not bend depending on what has 
happened in the life of the individual automobile?.. 

I'm so tired of bothering Rob, John Hervey, and Warren at DMC Houston 
with these questions from an obvious amateur.. Can someone shine some 
light for me?

Much Appreciated.

Warren and Heather
Vin# 0809










________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


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