From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2286
Date: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 9:56 PM


There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: DeLorean Handling
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

2. Re: 17000 Vins..
From: DmcGman_at_dml_comcast.net

3. Re: Re: Symptoms of bad TA bolts
From: Martin Gutkowski - DMUK Ltd <martin_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

4. Re: 17000 Vins..
From: "Mike Walsh" <yahoo_at_dml_oneskydojo.com>

5. RE: Re: Symptoms of bad TA bolts
From: "Joseph Kuchan" <josephkuchan_at_dml_hotmail.com>

6. Re: hey everyone I am new to the delorean mailing list
From: "Charlie" <charles_az1_at_dml_hotmail.com>

7. Re: Prototype cars (DMC-24)
From: alistair mccann <alistairmccann_at_dml_yahoo.com>

8. Re: Re: DeLorean Handling
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

9. RE: Re: DeLorean Handling
From: "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>

10. Re: DeLorean Handling
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>

11. Re: Symptoms of bad TA bolts
From: tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com

12. Any DC owners/enthusiasts?
From: "erikgeerdink" <erikgeerdink_at_dml_yahoo.com>

13. Re: Symptoms of bad TA bolts
From: "ryanpwright" <yahoo1_at_dml_ryanwright.com>

14. Re: Symptoms of bad TA bolts
From: "ryanpwright" <yahoo1_at_dml_ryanwright.com>

15. Re: Re: DeLorean Handling
From: Josh Haldeman <jhaldeman_at_dml_fuse.net>

16. Re: DeLorean Handling
From: "LJScarlet2" <ljscarlet2_at_dml_yahoo.com>

17. Re: Symptoms of bad TA bolts
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

18. Re: Symptoms of bad TA bolts
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

19. Re: (Evansville) AutoFest Car Show 2004
From: Shannon Yocom <ssdelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>

20. Re: DeLorean Handling
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

21. Re: 17000 Vins..
From: "Mike Walsh" <yahoo_at_dml_oneskydojo.com>

22. Re: Re: Symptoms of bad TA bolts
From: Martin Gutkowski - DMUK Ltd <martin_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

23. Re: Re: DeLorean Handling
From: "Bruce Benson" <delornut_at_dml_peoplepc.com>

24. RE: Re: 17000 Vins..
From: "Scott McMullan" <mcmullas_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>

25. Tom's DMC parts list back from racing
From: "lomimagic" <lomimagic_at_dml_yahoo.com>





Message: 1
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:57:44 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: DeLorean Handling



This brings up something I've wondered about:

Contemporary reviews complained about DeLo's rear weight bias. Claimed
the car wanted to pivot around itself in corners. This has not been my
experience at all. Even though I drive a tad fast & hard, I have never
felt the rear end do anything untoward. In fact, the car does indeed
respond best accelerating through a curve.

Has anyone on the List ever experienced real world handling problems
on an otherwise tight vehicle?

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> wrote:
> One of the hallmarks of
> the Delorean is it's tight handling. You should be able to throw it
> into a corner and accelerate! Of course you should only push your car
> hard if you have full confidence in it. 








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 2
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:13:53 +0000
From: DmcGman_at_dml_comcast.net
Subject: Re: 17000 Vins..


Does it matter?  I heard those 17000 VIN cars (KAPAC Cars?) werent real factory D's anyway.  At least thats what some guy near me who owns one was told ;-)

Gary


<<From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: 17000 Vins..


17000 vins...  Do you have the 81 or 82 style tail
pipes??>>








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 3
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:04:22 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski - DMUK Ltd <martin_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Re: Symptoms of bad TA bolts


I wasn't suggesting doing it at 60mph! No, a simple slow-speed test at 
less than 30 is good enough. And I strongly disagree that it means they 
are seriously loose. Half a turn on the nut can mean the difference 
between nasty, dangerous handling and a positive fun car to drive. I do 
this for a living now too, and I've driven countrless D's with 
squirrelly handling. All the ones we've subsequently recommended new 
TABs have had that problem corrected as a result. I nearly crashed my D 
just after I got it 3 years ago due to the back end kicking out. All 
that needed was half a turn on one bolt.. It's worth noting that these 
bolts don't just "come loose" - they stretch and become loose that way. 
My car now has Inconel 718 bolts in it, as does a customer's car which I 
changed one bolt out (had been replaced with an M10 bolt!) but the other 
was siezed solid. I had to drive it to a local garage with a ramp to 
enable me to get enough leverage on it to free the bolt up and replace 
it. Said bolt still had all shims present and appeared tight. This 
particular car had just received our performance upgrade and the drive 
to the garage was an experience - losing the back end under power and 
ending up facing the opposite direction - thankfully only at very slow 
speeds on a wet road with nobody around. I know my own car well enough 
to know that it could easily handle what I did.

I would go as far as to say that unless they've been checked or 
replaced, MOST DeLoreans have loose TAB's (in my experience in the UK). 
Just about every car we've had in since DMUK started up has had new 
TAB's on the list of work, most often due to the owner being aware of 
the problems with them, and that's in no small part thanks to Toby and 
the DML

Martin

David Teitelbaum wrote:

>
>Easier and a lot safer to just put the car on a lift and inspect. If
>you are driving around and your TAB's are THAT LOOSE then you have
>already lost the shims and you are just asking for trouble. 
>







________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 4
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:58:40 -0000
From: "Mike Walsh" <yahoo_at_dml_oneskydojo.com>
Subject: Re: 17000 Vins..



My pipes are small and straight. One note though - I finally took the 
head liner off to see the writing underneath. Besides the key codes I 
also found a vin number (both sides) 12084, my vin is 17084. It also 
had the date "8 1 82" even though the build date is Sept 82. It's a 
Leo and all this time I had thought it was a Virgo!

I have the pics here if any one wants to look or has any input
www.oneskydojo.com\delorean\hl\

- Mike
#17084

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
> 17000 vins...  Do you have the 81 or 82 style tail
> pipes??
> 
> 
> --- Scott McMullan <mcmullas_at_dml_b...> wrote:
> > Thanks!
> > 
> > We're pretty close; I'm VIN# 17094.
> > 
> <SNIP>
> > Brent Lundgren
> > VIN #17006
> > 
> >
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 5
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:07:34 -0500
From: "Joseph Kuchan" <josephkuchan_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Symptoms of bad TA bolts


Actually Rich, when you weren't looking I did try a MAPP torch to try to 
free it. I made a makeshift heat shield from layers of thin sheet metal to 
protect the surrounding area and tried heating the bolt in an attempt to 
break the bond between the bolt and the trailing arm. I managed to get the 
bolt dull red but I ended the whole attempt as soon as I melted the heat 
shield!  The bolt still did not come free at that point. I also put a big 
breaker bar with a pipe over the handle and couldn't get it to turn. I did 
manage to have the socket slip off the bolt and have the handle of the 
breaker bar hit me in the forehead, though! The only thing that worked was 
sawing the bolt off and replacing both the bolt AND th trailing arm. And 
remember that there was absolutely *no* externally visible sign of any 
corrosion!

BTW, I still have that trailing arm with the remanant of that bolt stuck 
firmly in place. (As Rich said, the big press was humbled by the little 
bolt.) I may soak it in penetrant for a year or two then try again. ;)

On the other side of the car the bolt slipped out with very little effort 
required. I guess you MAY get it out without a lift, or you MAY run into the 
kind of problems we did.

My simple advice to every owner would be to just spend the money and the 
time and replace the bolts. That way you don't have to wonder if they're 
bent, corroded, cracked, safe, or whatever. And with Toby TABs further 
corrosion (of the bolt, anyway) is not a concern. Its such a critical part 
that you don't want to cheap out on the time/money to know that you're safe. 
The cost is less than a single decent tire, and you wouldn't run around on 
bald tires with cords sticking out of them now would you?!?! ;)

-Joe Kuchan



>From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>
>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [DML] Re: Symptoms of bad TA bolts
>Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 00:49:31 -0000
>
>
>
>
>Harry,
>
>I would recommend reviewing Post 46068 by Joe Kuchan, echoing the
>advice of David T. and others.  This is not a very easy job if all
>does not go well.  Joe's son Peter has a very nice, low mileage
>Delorean and we had one bolt that we could not remove with a 40 ton
>press and we had the luxury of using a lift.  I guess if we had a
>torch, we may have gotten it out but I almost doubt it.  Luckily
>we had a spare trailing arm to replace the one with the stuck bolt
>but it turned into at least a good half day job (on a 5-speed).
>
>I have replaced a few dozen TA bolts over the years on many cars
>and I only had one go "very easy" and that was my Canadian D.
>Maybe my experience has been with too many "rust belt" Deloreans
>but I always allow for plenty of time to change a set of TA bolts.
>
>Later,
>Rich W.
>
>
>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "ryanpwright" <yahoo1_at_dml_r...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Harry,
> >
> > I don't believe there are any symptoms until it's too late.
> >
> > That said, you don't need a lift. A set of ramps and a jack to help
> > release the load when you remove the bolts is plenty. This is a
>very
> > easy job (unless you have an automatic).
> >
> > -Ryan
> >
> > --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "spaceace3113" <spaceace3113_at_dml_y...>
>wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Other than visual inspection is there away one can diagnose bad
> > > trailing arm bolts by driving, handling characteristics?
>Curious, as
> > > I wouldnt want anything to happen and dont always have the
>luxury of
> > > a lift available.
> > >
> > > Thanks guys
> > > Harry 2696
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
>moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
>For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com
>
>To search the archives or view files, log in at 
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfeeŽ 
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 6
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:24:38 -0000
From: "Charlie" <charles_az1_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: hey everyone I am new to the delorean mailing list



Welcome! Yea this list is great!  Im a non owner (Im still working on 
getting one) but otherwise this list has come in handy when my club 
members are out of reach to discuss general questons and tips and 
leads. Lots to learn and know!  

CG
AZD

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "spaceace3113" <spaceace3113_at_dml_y...> 
wrote:
> Welcome aboard, you are in the right place if you care or are
> interested in Deloreans. The guys here are all very helpful and
> knowledgeable. Goodluck.








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 7
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:05:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: alistair mccann <alistairmccann_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Prototype cars (DMC-24)


Hi Jay
 
I own one of the early test cars or pilot cars as they were known.  My car was one of 4 used to test the car on the public before it was launched.
 
The early proto cars are all in the states bar one which is supposedly still at Lotus in england.  One of the early cars was sold recently at auction - it is a non runner but still amazing to see, I think there are some pictures at dmcnews.com
 
Alistair.
 
 
Jay Gosciniak <gotojayjay_at_dml_aol.com> wrote:


I was wondering if anyone knew what happened to the prototype Deloreans, did
they get destroyed? Does anyone here own one of them? And does anyone have
information on the DMC-24? I heard it was a four seat delorean sedan. 




- Jay Gosciniak



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
Yahoo! Groups Links








		
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 8
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 09:46:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: DeLorean Handling


Yup..  I found that once the car starts to slide for
any reason (wet road, sand, whatever), you need to be
aware of the weight in the back versus the front as
most people are used to.

I am sure Lauren will agree, after our little spinout
on the FFT this past weekend.  LOL

--- content22207 <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net> wrote:
<SNIP>
> Has anyone on the List ever experienced real world
> handling problems
> on an otherwise tight vehicle?
<SNIP>


		
_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 9
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:30:34 -0500
From: "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Re: DeLorean Handling


Your not driving as fast as you think.
I have lost it in a corner at least 3e times, and rain?...Forget it!
The rear end is very heavy, but if yu have soft performance tires it cuts it 
down a lot.
Speaking of speeding, I got busted doing 106 the other night.....damn.
- VB

>From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [DML] Re: DeLorean Handling
>Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:57:44 -0000
>
>
>
>
>This brings up something I've wondered about:
>
>Contemporary reviews complained about DeLo's rear weight bias. Claimed
>the car wanted to pivot around itself in corners. This has not been my
>experience at all. Even though I drive a tad fast & hard, I have never
>felt the rear end do anything untoward. In fact, the car does indeed
>respond best accelerating through a curve.
>
>Has anyone on the List ever experienced real world handling problems
>on an otherwise tight vehicle?
>
>Bill Robertson
>#5939
>
> >--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> wrote:
> > One of the hallmarks of
> > the Delorean is it's tight handling. You should be able to throw it
> > into a corner and accelerate! Of course you should only push your car
> > hard if you have full confidence in it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
>moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
>For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com
>
>To search the archives or view files, log in at 
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>







________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 10
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:47:17 -0000
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>
Subject: Re: DeLorean Handling



Yes, I first experienced the "end around" with my first Delorean
back in 1985.  Granted, this was with original NCT's, in the rain
and during my first few weeks of ownership.  I was "playing" with
the car in a mall next to a JC Penny in North Riverside, IL.

Just after a stop sign and a 90 degree right turn, there is a set
of railroad tracks and a slight turn in the road.  Since I was
"in the gas" as I went over the tracks, the NCT's lost grip as I
crossed the wet rails and rubber threasholds next to the tracks
and I inadvertently pulled my first "Marty McFly Move", just like
in BTTF when Marty was trying to outrun the Libyans.  The car did
go nearly sideways momentarily, but as soon as the tires hit the
pavement again, it snapped back in line (just like in the movie).

After years of experience and driving thousands of miles in many
different Deloreans, I have never purposely attempted that move
and with more recent softer tire compounds, I have not made that
move again inadvertently.

Now with the Grand National powered Delorean, I have plenty of
torque to break loose the rear tires at will, but since I am not
interested in breaking anything else on the car right now, I will
be content with just breaking in the new clutch gradually.

BTW: My Grand National powered Delorean is a Canadian model, but
with the engine swap, I'm unsure of the original exhaust pipes.

Later,
Rich W.


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_c...> 
wrote:
> 
> 
> This brings up something I've wondered about:
> 
> Contemporary reviews complained about DeLo's rear weight bias. 
Claimed
> the car wanted to pivot around itself in corners. This has not 
been my
> experience at all. Even though I drive a tad fast & hard, I have 
never
> felt the rear end do anything untoward. In fact, the car does 
indeed
> respond best accelerating through a curve.
> 
> Has anyone on the List ever experienced real world handling 
problems
> on an otherwise tight vehicle?
> 
> Bill Robertson
> #5939









________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 11
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:49:27 -0000
From: tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com
Subject: Re: Symptoms of bad TA bolts



List - We had a local member who had just such an occurrence with a 
trailing arm bolt totally seized in the trailing arm.  No amount of 
available force would dislodge it.  He finally took the trailing arm 
to a machine shop, and had the bolt bored out.  Needless to say, the 
car now sports a shiny set of TOBY-TAB's.  This method may be the 
only solution for this particular problem of the "humbled 40 ton 
press".

Toby Peterson  VIN 2248 "Winged1"
DeLorean Parts Morthwest, LLC
www.delorean-parts.com 


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Kuchan" <josephkuchan_at_dml_h...> 
wrote:
> BTW, I still have that trailing arm with the remanant of that bolt 
stuck firmly in place. (As Rich said, the big press was humbled by 
the little bolt.) I may soak it in penetrant for a year or two then 
try again. ;)
> 









________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 12
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:50:52 -0000
From: "erikgeerdink" <erikgeerdink_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Any DC owners/enthusiasts?



I'm going to be going to Washington DC Thursday until Monday for a 
trip with my wife and daughter.  They will be visiting with friends 
and their babies and talking about "baby stuff".  Are there any DC 
owners here who might want to get together for a beer/coffee/lunch 
sometime this weekend?  If so, contact me off the list.  I will have 
my laptop with me and should be able to check my email on a regular 
basis.

Erik Geerdink
04512









________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 13
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:02:58 -0000
From: "ryanpwright" <yahoo1_at_dml_ryanwright.com>
Subject: Re: Symptoms of bad TA bolts



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, JDub <doki_pen_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
> --- ryanpwright <yahoo1_at_dml_r...> wrote:
> 
> >This is a very easy job (unless you have an
> automatic).
> 
> Why is that?
> 
> Jon

Something about the transmission being in the way. I have a manual so
I wouldn't know the particulars, but I just replaced my trailing arm
bolts a few weeks back and all of my research said doing it on an
automatic wasn't a cake walk.

-Ryan








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 14
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:00:17 -0000
From: "ryanpwright" <yahoo1_at_dml_ryanwright.com>
Subject: Re: Symptoms of bad TA bolts



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_o...> wrote:
> 
> Harry,
> 
> I would recommend reviewing Post 46068 by Joe Kuchan, echoing the
> advice of David T. and others.  This is not a very easy job if all
> does not go well.  Joe's son Peter has a very nice, low mileage 
> Delorean and we had one bolt that we could not remove with a 40 ton
> press and we had the luxury of using a lift.  I guess if we had a
> torch, we may have gotten it out but I almost doubt it.  Luckily
> we had a spare trailing arm to replace the one with the stuck bolt
> but it turned into at least a good half day job (on a 5-speed).

Right, but that's just one side of the coin. I pulled the bolts on my
'81 somewhere between 50k-55k miles - they came out very easily. After
removing the nuts and such I just pulled 'em out with my fingers. No
problem at all. They were in great condition, but I put Toby TABs in
anyway.

-Ryan








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 15
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:33:04 -0400
From: Josh Haldeman <jhaldeman_at_dml_fuse.net>
Subject: Re: Re: DeLorean Handling


Before my car was mysteriously run into a hotel room in Pigeon Forge, I 
had another little fender bender.  Well...okay, the car was totaled, 
because of the rear end weight bias...but more so because I had 10 year 
old tires on it.  Here is my story:

Like you, I didn't think it was possible to spin the car out, and was 
used to taking corners too fast, scaring the crap out of my passengers, 
and showing off the stiff suspension.  Then, one day I was coming around 
a corner a little quick, after it had rained lightly, (worst 
situation...ground is wet, but still oily) the car completely let go, 
and before I could do anything I was into the LH front fender of a 
Mercedes E-Class station wagon.

Speed at impact was around 20 mph, and the front end was very 
ugly...however, the car absorbed all the impact, and I felt almost 
nothing...it was just like braking really hard.  Driver's side door got 
stuck closed, so I had to jump the console and get out the passenger 
side in order to make sure the other guy was okay.  (he was)  It was 
awful to look at, and needless to say, I felt like a complete and utter 
moron.  (hind sight was a bitch on that one)  Fast forward to two years 
later, and the car is better than new.

I stripped off what was left of the fascia and front body panels, then 
trailered the car to Dave Bauerle's shop.  In about a month, he had a 
new fiberglass front end put on, and straightened the frame.  (for 
people who have seen the engine fire car body sitting in my 
driveway...this is the body my new front end came off of)  Dave's work 
is incredible.  There is NO evidence that the car was ever damaged.  
Then with the help of Ken Koncelik, I was able to strike a deal where if 
I started parting out his bad DeLorean (whole other story), he would let 
me keep what I needed for my repairs at a reasonable cost. (beginning of 
parts business)

Anyway...through the help of some incredible, generous friends, I was 
able to return my car to the road.  In the meantime, I found a new 
hobby...and I've really enjoyed finding out what these cars are made 
of!  I once restored a 65 Mustang, and couldn't drive it afterward, 
because I couldn't believe how little was holding it together.  After 
taking apart and rebuilding a few DeLoreans, I can say drive your car 
with confidence...DeLorean may not have been the world's best business 
man, but he definitely knew how to build a great car!

Moral of the story, however, is don't push the limits of any car on a 
public road.  If you want to see what the car can do, take it to a 
track.  Otherwise you run the risk of not only hurting or killing 
yourself, but also the other people that you have to share the road 
with.  Never forget that none of us can ever be so good a driver, that 
we can't get better.  Some of us just start out with more ground to 
cover ahead of them.  (haha)  ...And although I do need and value your 
Delorean parts business, I don't need it that bad!

Take care and drive safe,
Josh
http://tinyurl.com/6dhcw


>>From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
>>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>>To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: [DML] Re: DeLorean Handling
>>Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:57:44 -0000
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>This brings up something I've wondered about:
>>
>>Contemporary reviews complained about DeLo's rear weight bias. Claimed
>>the car wanted to pivot around itself in corners. This has not been my
>>experience at all. Even though I drive a tad fast & hard, I have never
>>felt the rear end do anything untoward. In fact, the car does indeed
>>respond best accelerating through a curve.
>>
>>Has anyone on the List ever experienced real world handling problems
>>on an otherwise tight vehicle?
>>
>>Bill Robertson
>>#5939
>>
>>    
>>
>>>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> wrote:
>>>One of the hallmarks of
>>>the Delorean is it's tight handling. You should be able to throw it
>>>into a corner and accelerate! Of course you should only push your car
>>>hard if you have full confidence in it.
>>>      
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
>>moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>>
>>For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com
>>
>>To search the archives or view files, log in at 
>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
>moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
>For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com
>
>To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 16
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:35:38 -0000
From: "LJScarlet2" <ljscarlet2_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: DeLorean Handling



Handling?  Who had time to think about the handling?  I was fearing 
for my life--and screaming!  Plus, that burning rubber smell really 
demands your attention.  

In all fairness to Marc, and to his lovely vehicle, it was nothing 
but pure driving skill coupled with a slow-to-fishtail car that 
stopped us from plowing backwards into an SUV.  

In normal driving conditions, I have found the cornering to be quite 
good.  Then again, I drive like a grandma ;)  

And, if my car has to spin, I'd rather the weight be in the back 
because it is easier for you to regain control since it is less 
disorienting than if the front was pushing the spin.


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
> Yup..  I found that once the car starts to slide for
> any reason (wet road, sand, whatever), you need to be
> aware of the weight in the back versus the front as
> most people are used to.
> 
> I am sure Lauren will agree, after our little spinout
> on the FFT this past weekend.  LOL
> 
> --- content22207 <brobertson_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> <SNIP>
> > Has anyone on the List ever experienced real world
> > handling problems
> > on an otherwise tight vehicle?
> <SNIP>
> 
> 
> 		
> _______________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
> http://vote.yahoo.com








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 17
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 19:05:53 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Symptoms of bad TA bolts



Even testing at 30 MPH could be dangerous if someone is alongside you!
If you don't suspect the trailing arm bolts and you are at 60 MPH you
can really end up "In the weeds"! By your own account it is easy to
check BEFORE you drive so if you suspect the trailing arm bolts AT ALL
then prudence would dictate checking them BEFORE a test drive. If
during the testing you notice a looseness in the suspension AT LOW
SPEEDS then you can stop the drive and inspect further for the cause.
A half a turn is serious, this means the bolt is no longer torqued,
has stretched, and the shims are probably missing. Worst case, the
bolt is frozen in the trailing arm and you are torqueing on the head
thinking it is tight and all the while the nut is loose! If you have a
car that has never had the TAB's inspected let alone replaced, I
submit that they should be replaced or at the very least removed and
inspected. This would at least show you that they are not corroded,
frozen, bent or stretched. The problem with not replacing the
origional bolts is that I believe they should not be retorqued. Each
retorqing stretches them and doing it several times will fatigue them.
Besides, with all the labor in taking them in and out it is just safer
to replace them. On a 20 plus year old car some things should just be
replaced like coolant hoses, belts, ignition parts AND TRAILING ARM BOLTS!
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Martin Gutkowski - DMUK Ltd
<martin_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> 
> I wasn't suggesting doing it at 60mph! No, a simple slow-speed test at 
> less than 30 is good enough. And I strongly disagree that it means they 
> are seriously loose. Half a turn on the nut can mean the difference 









________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 18
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:48:47 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Symptoms of bad TA bolts



On the automatic cars there is less room to slide the bolt in and out.
The trans is larger in the area near the bolt so it leaves less room.
One way to do it is to remove the bolts holding the trailing arm to
the rear carrier and move the trailing arm enough to slide the bolts
in and out. This CAN be done without disconnecting the brake line and
having to bleed the brakes. Another way is to remove the bushing mount
on the frame.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, JDub <doki_pen_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
> --- ryanpwright <yahoo1_at_dml_r...> wrote:
> 
> >This is a very easy job (unless you have an
> automatic).
> 
> Why is that?
> 
> Jon








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 19
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:35:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shannon Yocom <ssdelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: (Evansville) AutoFest Car Show 2004


Marty, Dave, Rich, Ron, & other attendees...
Almost a month late in my asking but how was the Evansville show this year? Will
there be any photos posted on the clubs site (http://www.midstatedmc.com)? I
missed it due to a needed valve adjusting.

Shannon Y
16056

----------------

   Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 11:02:25 EDT
   From: wingd2_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: AutoFest Car Show 2004

  Just a reminder that the annual "AutoFest" car show event in Evansville 
Indiana is coming up next weekend, Sept 24 and 25. The Midstate Delorean Club has

attended this event every year since it first started about 7 or 8 years ago, 
and we're planning on being there again this year. This year we're going to 
have 15 plus Deloreans coming in from Colorado, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Ohio, 
Illinois, Missouri, Kentucky, Indiana and other areas. Our group uses this show 
as a kind of end of year, relax and enjoy yourself type event, and I must say, 
we've had a lot of fun in the past getting together for one last time each 
year to enjoy ourselves. Anyone who is interested is more then welcome to join in

on the fun. You can check out event information at - http://www.autofest.com/.

   The show organizers have once again this year set aside a separate parking 
area for us at the show so we can all park together right in the middle of 
the show.  They have also set up a separate class for judging our cars. You can 
register for the show on Saturday morning at the event. Pre registration is 
not required. 

   As in the past, our group is staying at the Hampton Inn East, just off the 
outer loop. We have a block of rooms set aside at $69 per night. You can call 
812-473-5000 for reservations. Just tell them you are with the Delorean group.

  If anyone has any questions, please email or call.

  Marty Maier
  314-565-4749


		
_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 20
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 19:14:41 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: DeLorean Handling



I have pushed my car hard and never lost it in a turn but I have new
tires and never tried it in the rain. I suspect you could probably
push it over the edge because it would not give you any warning just
before you lose it, unlike most stock cars with much better weight
distribution. This is not a recomendation to try anything stupid, it
is just that a Delorean can corner a whole lot better than most
anything that most drivers are familiar with. With it's low center of
gravity and it's large rear footprint a Delorean can achieve higher
cornering forces than your daily driver. Wet pavement, gravel, an oil
spot, and all bets are off! Of course because you are so low to the
ground you get the illusion of traveling faster than you think. Kind
of like driving a Go-Kart!
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> 
> Your not driving as fast as you think.
> I have lost it in a corner at least 3e times, and rain?...Forget it!
> The rear end is very heavy, but if yu have soft performance tires it
cuts it 
> down a lot.
> Speaking of speeding, I got busted doing 106 the other night.....damn.
> - VB
> 
> >From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_c...>
> >Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> >To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [DML] Re: DeLorean Handling
> >Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:57:44 -0000
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >This brings up something I've wondered about:
> >
> >Contemporary reviews complained about DeLo's rear weight bias. Claimed
> >the car wanted to pivot around itself in corners. This has not been my
> >experience at all. Even though I drive a tad fast & hard, I have never
> >felt the rear end do anything untoward. In fact, the car does indeed
> >respond best accelerating through a curve.
> >
> >Has anyone on the List ever experienced real world handling problems
> >on an otherwise tight vehicle?
> >
> >Bill Robertson
> >#5939
> >
> > >--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "David Teitelbaum"
<jtrealty_at_dml_w...> wrote:
> > > One of the hallmarks of
> > > the Delorean is it's tight handling. You should be able to throw it
> > > into a corner and accelerate! Of course you should only push
your car
> > > hard if you have full confidence in it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> >moderators_at_dml_d...
> >
> >For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see
www.dmcnews.com
> >
> >To search the archives or view files, log in at 
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 21
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 22:25:09 -0000
From: "Mike Walsh" <yahoo_at_dml_oneskydojo.com>
Subject: Re: 17000 Vins..



The PO of #17084 purchased it in Feb of '83, shortly after they were 
delivered to KAPAC, then sold out of a Cadillac dealership in 
Oakville Ontario (I have a copy of the invoice). I do know that some 
of these "Canadian" cars were converted back from Km/h to MPH to be 
sold in the US (saw one at PF). 

I have no doubt that some cars may have been assembled by KAPAC and 
others may have been "reassembled" due to poor quality of workmanship 
after the line workers left the factory. All the research I have done 
shows that the 17xxx series were manufactured in Ireland but did not 
make it to the dealers before the bankruptcy. The 20xxx series are 
the ones that may have been assembled by KAPAC

Mike Walsh
#17084








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 22
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 00:48:06 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski - DMUK Ltd <martin_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Re: Symptoms of bad TA bolts


The original poster asked for an easy way to test for loose bolts. 
Assuming the car is regularly driven, it's an early warning that they're 
coming loose. Of course you need to look for other road users before 
doing it, I like to credit those who read my posts with some 
intelligence :-)

Also, you're wrong about the shims. They are a very specific shape 
designed to "click" over the bolt, and in the case of one that has never 
been removed, the shims should stay on the bolt even when the bolt's 
loose. Theory and parctice don't always meet in the midle though.

If the bolt is frozen in the arm, then you won't be _able_ to torque the 
head..... as you suggest. You mean that it doesn't matter how much you 
put on the nut, the critical joint will be loose, or at the very least 
at a lower torque than necessary.

Yes, I agree driving on known loose bolts is a bad idea - in my case I 
was taking the car slowly down to the workshop to do the job, and 
literally swapped ends on a wet road while pulling out of a junction. It 
happenned so slowly that I realised that doing a full 180 would be 
preferable to stopping parked across the road, so I kept the pedal down 
and slewed it round. I'm sure it didn't help that the car was using 
original NCT's but I gave it a lot more respect the rest of the way!

Ultimately, David, we're singing from the same hymn sheet. In the real 
world, checking the TABs visually is a great idea, but simply not 
practical in a lot of cases. You can see a good example of a bad bolt here

http://www.delorean.co.uk/DMUK/newparts1.html#tabs

I cut that sod out. That was fun....

Martin








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 23
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 19:32:47 -0500
From: "Bruce Benson" <delornut_at_dml_peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: Re: DeLorean Handling


After having had the opportunity to drive the DeLorean relatively hard
around the circuit at Road America on a few occasions I've formed some
opinions regarding it's handling. First, Lotus did a remarkable job
overcoming the rear weight bias of the rear engine. The wide track wheel
base helps a lot but it also makes the car plow through tight turns and
understeer like crazy. The transition point where understeer switches to
oversteer can come on suddenly with a rear engined car but Lotus seems to
have dialed in that transition point quite far up the handling curve. My car
is pretty low and I've pushed it hard and have yet to reach that point on
dry pavement. The biggest problem I found when running around Road America
was the lack of heat dissipation in the brake system. The non-ventilated
rotors heated quickly and after two laps (just over 8 miles) the brakes had
faded to the point they just plane didn't stop. Realistically the car was
never intended to be a race car and the chassis was engineered to keep the
average driver from getting into trouble. Lotus did a great job of
accomplishing that. It's great fun to drive on the road, just keep in mind
that the rear weight bias will ,at some point without a whole lot of
warning, turn into an oversteer situation.

Bruce Benson






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 24
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 20:44:43 -0400
From: "Scott McMullan" <mcmullas_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>
Subject: RE: Re: 17000 Vins..



I also have small, straight pipes, and the grooved hood.
My headliners conceal 2 different VIN's, 12159 and 12094

--Scott
VIN#17094

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Walsh [mailto:yahoo_at_dml_oneskydojo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 11:59 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: 17000 Vins..





My pipes are small and straight. One note though - I finally took the
head liner off to see the writing underneath. Besides the key codes I
also found a vin number (both sides) 12084, my vin is 17084. It also
had the date "8 1 82" even though the build date is Sept 82. It's a
Leo and all this time I had thought it was a Virgo!

I have the pics here if any one wants to look or has any input
www.oneskydojo.com\delorean\hl\

- Mike
#17084

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_y...> wrote:
>
> 17000 vins...  Do you have the 81 or 82 style tail
> pipes??
>
>
> --- Scott McMullan <mcmullas_at_dml_b...> wrote:
> > Thanks!
> >
> > We're pretty close; I'm VIN# 17094.
> >
> <SNIP>
> > Brent Lundgren
> > VIN #17006
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com








To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
Yahoo! Groups Links












________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 25
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 01:03:54 -0000
From: "lomimagic" <lomimagic_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Tom's DMC parts list back from racing



Hello Everyone
Hope you watched the SPEED GT/Touring races and American LeMans 
Series from Laguna Seca. What a great weekend!
Check scca.com for the 1995 race schedule and go see it live!!
Join SCCA workers and see it up REALLY close!!!
They had a special Corvette area  Why not ask them for a D display?

I am again ready to take parts request and will send reasonable 
sized pics(new cam,still learning) to those requesting to insure we 
are talking about the same parts.

If you haven't checked the list for what you need please see it 
under FILES in this group board.
Individual questions please send direct-off board- to 

lomimagic_at_dml_yahoo.com

Thank You
Tom Lewis








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    dmcnews-unsubscribe_at_dml_yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------