From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2288
Date: Thursday, October 21, 2004 6:32 PM


There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Old John DeLorean Commerical
From: jvdmc12_at_dml_aol.com

2. Continued: DeLorean Handling
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

3. Re: Prototype cars (DMC-24)
From: "John Rydholm" <ebondefender_at_dml_yahoo.com>

4. Re: door seal
From: "John Rydholm" <ebondefender_at_dml_yahoo.com>

5. Fuel Economy
From: "John Rydholm" <ebondefender_at_dml_yahoo.com>

6. Re: door seal
From: "zeilner0" <zeilner0_at_dml_yahoo.de>

7. VIN Questions (of interest to all)
From: toscano2_at_dml_ix.netcom.com

8. Re: DeLorean Handling
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

9. Re: Old John DeLorean Commerical
From: Bob Brandys <BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com>

10. Re: VIN Questions (of interest to all)
From: "Steve" <steve_at_dml_fotofx.net>

11. Re: Fuel Economy Run
From: Bob Brandys <BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com>

12. Re: Re: DeLorean Handling
From: Chris Shepherd <chrisau79_at_dml_yahoo.com>

13. Re: Fuel Economy
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>

14. RE: Fuel Economy
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

15. Re: Fuel Economy
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

16. Re: Fuel Economy
From: "ryanpwright" <yahoo1_at_dml_ryanwright.com>

17. Re: Re: DeLorean Handling
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net

18. AW: Re: door seal
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>

19. Re: Proper operation of mode switch
From: "ryanpwright" <yahoo1_at_dml_ryanwright.com>

20. Delorean Frame for sale
From: "Stainless_Illusion" <stainless_illusion_at_dml_insightbb.com>

21. Fuel tank breather
From: nicholden_at_dml_yahoo.com

22. Re: Re: DeLorean Handling
From: "Christopher Hawes" <chris_at_dml_chawes.demon.co.uk>

23. RE: Prototype cars (DMC-24)
From: "Jack Stiefel" <jackstiefel_at_dml_stiefelaluminum.com>

24. Re: DeLorean Handling
From: tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com

25. Re: Re: DeLorean Handling
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net





Message: 1
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 23:39:49 -0400
From: jvdmc12_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Old John DeLorean Commerical


Correction, John Delorean was not in that particular commercial, it was actor Paul Richards...





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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 03:51:45 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Continued: DeLorean Handling



That may be the difference: In curves I maintain speed (even slow
slightly?) as I look around the bend, then accelerate my way out.

Other owners claim that my driving habits err towards unacceptable, so
illusory speed shouldn't be a problem. And I am passing other traffic.

Perhaps it's reduced rear weight from the smaller carbureted manifold...

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, mike.griese_at_dml_w... wrote:
> 
> DeLoreans are easy to spin.  Just go into a turn at high speed, lift 
> off the throttle quickly and tap the brakes.  








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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 3
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 05:43:18 -0000
From: "John Rydholm" <ebondefender_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Prototype cars (DMC-24)



hmm, interesting. I've seen a photo once of a proto-DeLorean, but 
never knew there was more than just the one. Can you describe a few 
notable differences, or is it pretty much the same basic car?
-John
PS: If it's a prototype, the DMC-24, then why is the mass-produced 
car the DMC-12? I mean, you'd kinda think the numbers would go up 
like software releases or Gundam unit serial #'s lol!

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, alistair mccann 
<alistairmccann_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
> Hi Jay
>  
> I own one of the early test cars or pilot cars as they were 
known.  My car was one of 4 used to test the car on the public 
before it was launched.
>  
> The early proto cars are all in the states bar one which is 
supposedly still at Lotus in england.  One of the early cars was 
sold recently at auction - it is a non runner but still amazing to 
see, I think there are some pictures at dmcnews.com
>  
> Alistair.









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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 05:54:01 -0000
From: "John Rydholm" <ebondefender_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: door seal



Just out of curiosity, who would be a good merchant to get a seal 
from? My driver's side is getting a tad old and cracked. I noticed 
that the other day when a single drop of water hit me in the face 
during a thunderstorm, as I was getting out of the car. (But before 
the door was open >_< )
john

DeLorean + Led Zepplin/Megadeth = fun :)








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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 5
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 05:50:16 -0000
From: "John Rydholm" <ebondefender_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Fuel Economy



Hi all,
I've noticed I've had somewhat decreased gas mileage lately. I can 
drive my DeLorean about 36 or so miles avg. 55mph on a two-lane 
highway, using about 1/4 tank of gas. My car is the 5-speed and I 
shift smoothly with no problems. I don't know if my car just needs a 
tune up or what. Is it just the fact that the car was tuned to the 
standard 55 freeway speed/RPM's back then, or should have something 
adjusted? My cousin once owned an 85' Trans-Am and it took him 1/4 
to 1/3 of a tank just to drive 10 minutes to come over! (But that 
was probably because he played around with the engine and maxed it 
out to its limit.) Anyone have any gas problems like me? The prices 
have been kind of crappy here lately.








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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 6
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 06:02:56 -0000
From: "zeilner0" <zeilner0_at_dml_yahoo.de>
Subject: Re: door seal



Thank you Elvis, this is exactly the problem I have. Even the old 
seal was damaged in this corner. But how can I fix the problem? Is it 
a general problem or a problem of door adjustment or the seal itself? 

Gerhard
vin 3092 





--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_g...> 
wrote:
> 
> I don't see why he should adjust the anchor pins when they worked 
properly
> before ?
> 
> I guess he has the common problem now, that the inner door seal
> on the top front outer corner is touching the door when closing.
> 
> Gerhard, check out if the seal is being pulled to the inside of the 
> car when closing the door. That's very often a problem with new 
door 
> seals. Don't mess with the anchor pins if they were set correctly 
before.
> 
> Maybe it's a good idea to get you in touch with some other Austrian
> owners.
> 
> Elvis & 6548
> 
> 
> > 
> > It is very likely that the anchor pins that the door locks close 
on
> > were adjusted to the old, worn door seals. With the new seals the 
pins
> > must be readjusted. It is not too hard to do but if you don't 
have a
> > lot of experience it could take a while of trial-and-error. Take 
the
> > round rubber grommets off and you will see that you can put a 
wrench
> ...cut....
> 
> -- 
> +++ GMX DSL Premiumtarife 3 Monate gratis* + WLAN-Router 0,- EUR* 
+++
> Clevere DSL-Nutzer wechseln jetzt zu GMX: 
http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl








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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 01:42:03 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
From: toscano2_at_dml_ix.netcom.com
Subject: VIN Questions (of interest to all)


Just a bunch of questions I do not know the answers to, though I'd finally ask them with all the recent discussion of the Kapac cars, etc.

1) Do all VINS begin with SCEDT26T? In doing my research for the MA DMC database, I have found only one that does not, but then again everyone, including the MA RMV and Carfax, can make mistakes. I know it was an 83, in the 16000 range, and began with SCEDJ.

2) Do the VIN characters that immediately follow SCEDT26T make a difference with the year, etc? I have found a few cars with extremely low VINS and all seem to begin with SCEDT26T5BD. I know that with GM and Ford the VIN contains a bunch of engine and option codes and with the exception of the last digits are not related to chronology.

3) Could anyone share some examples of prototype and/or test car VINS, if those vehicles had them at all? Or even serial numbers? Partly for personal interest, partly to aid in building my databaser







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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:40:08 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: DeLorean Handling



I have to agree with Mike. A rear weight bias is the worst case. Think
of it as a pendulum. Once it starts swinging there is no way to stop
it and the chance to correct is very small. Factor in the limited
steering radius of the front wheels and you are very quickly past the
point where you can catch and correct a spin. On top of that the rear
will probably break loose without much warning so you don't know just
where that edge of performance is without going over it. Now you might
start to understand some of the inherent benefits of a front wheel
drive car with a front engine over a rear wheel drive car with a rear
engine. It will allow you to "power steer" through a spin. Changing
the motor and increasing the weight in the rear will only cause things
to get worse, not better. In fact the easier it is to spin the tires,
the easier it will be to spin the car. Maybe a slightly underpowered
Delorean was a safer Delorean! Of course there are many other
variables, for instance the amount of fuel (weight) in the tank, the
condition of the tires and road surface, temperature, etc.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, mike.griese_at_dml_w... wrote:
> 
> I'm not sure I agree that a rear weight bias is easier to catch than
> a mid or front weight bias, particularly with the DeLorean because
> it is almost impossible to steer with the throttle.  Coupled with a
> light front end, once it goes, it's gone.
> 
> --
> Mike
> 
> 
> -------------- Original message from "LJScarlet2" : -------------- 
> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Handling? Who had time to think about the handling? I was fearing 
> > for my life--and screaming! Plus, that burning rubber smell really 
> > demands your attention. 
> > 
> > In all fairness to Marc, and to his lovely vehicle, it was nothing 
> > but pure driving skill coupled with a slow-to-fishtail car that 
> > stopped us from plowing backwards into an SUV. 
> > 
> > In normal driving conditions, I have found the cornering to be quite 
> > good. Then again, I drive like a grandma ;) 
> > 
> > And, if my car has to spin, I'd rather the weight be in the back 
> > because it is easier for you to regain control since it is less 
> > disorienting than if the front was pushing the spin. 
> > 
> > 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:30:50 -0500
From: Bob Brandys <BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com>
Subject: Re: Old John DeLorean Commerical


Rob,

I just saw something about this commercial on an auto history program. 
 They had an actor hitting the bumper with a crow bar and it just 
bounced off.   However, the commercial did not ring true with listeners. 
 They had to go back and reshoot the commercial, this time with the 
actor dropping the crow bar with the typical crow bar ringing sound when 
it hit the ground.  People finally realized it was a real crow bar and 
not just some plastic :"fake" when the crow bar hit the ground.

Unfortunately, it was not JZD in these commercials.

BOB






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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:50:41 -0400
From: "Steve" <steve_at_dml_fotofx.net>
Subject: Re: VIN Questions (of interest to all)


Check this page out.  http://www.dmcnews.com/Techsection/vindecoder.html



Steve



----- Original Message ----- 
From: <toscano2_at_dml_ix.netcom.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 2:42 AM
Subject: [DML] VIN Questions (of interest to all)


>
>
> Just a bunch of questions I do not know the answers to, though I'd finally
ask them with all the recent discussion of the Kapac cars, etc.
>
> 1) Do all VINS begin with SCEDT26T? In doing my research for the MA DMC
database, I have found only one that does not, but then again everyone,
including the MA RMV and Carfax, can make mistakes. I know it was an 83, in
the 16000 range, and began with SCEDJ.
>
> 2) Do the VIN characters that immediately follow SCEDT26T make a
difference with the year, etc? I have found a few cars with extremely low
VINS and all seem to begin with SCEDT26T5BD. I know that with GM and Ford
the VIN contains a bunch of engine and option codes and with the exception
of the last digits are not related to chronology.
>
> 3) Could anyone share some examples of prototype and/or test car VINS, if
those vehicles had them at all? Or even serial numbers? Partly for personal
interest, partly to aid in building my databaser
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see
www.dmcnews.com
>
> To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 11
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:04:26 -0500
From: Bob Brandys <BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Economy Run


We are considering a Fuel Economy Run as part of the week of activities 
for the DCS 2006.

Here how it would work.

3 classes stick, automatic and modified.

Everyone leaves Pheasant run with a full tank of gas.


Everyone drives an easy to follow route involving suburan and highway 
driving through scenic areas.  About 60 miles.

Then everyone ends up back at a single gas station.

Here the "officials" top off everyones cars and marks down how much gas 
they used.


The least amount of gas - wins.  

The cost of the gas would be covered in the registration fees so we can 
use one charge card at the pumps.

Let me know what everyone thinks.


BOB






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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 12
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 08:05:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Shepherd <chrisau79_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: DeLorean Handling


I must disagree. Ever driven a Porsche? 
Living on the N Oregon coast I drive "twisties" all the time. Mine is the Island twin turbo and I always accelerate through corners and have never had a problem with the rear end breaking free. The Porsches I have owned would go into a "drift" that was very controllable and for that matter so would the Corvairs. My DeLoreans have only given me a problem once and that was on the I405/I5 merge in CA where there was standing water that I couldn't see because of the amount of rain at the time. Did a complete spin and continued on my way. The car did sputter for a little while 'till the engine dried out. 

David Teitelbaum <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net> wrote:



I have to agree with Mike. A rear weight bias is the worst case. Think
of it as a pendulum. Once it starts swinging there is no way to stop
it and the chance to correct is very small. Factor in the limited
steering radius of the front wheels and you are very quickly past the
point where you can catch and correct a spin. On top of that the rear
will probably break loose without much warning so you don't know just
where that edge of performance is without going over it. Now you might
start to understand some of the inherent benefits of a front wheel
drive car with a front engine over a rear wheel drive car with a rear
engine. It will allow you to "power steer" through a spin. Changing
the motor and increasing the weight in the rear will only cause things
to get worse, not better. In fact the easier it is to spin the tires,
the easier it will be to spin the car. Maybe a slightly underpowered
Delorean was a safer Delorean! Of course there are many other
variables, for instance the amount of fuel (weight) in the tank, the
condition of the tires and road surface, temperature, etc.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, mike.griese_at_dml_w... wrote:
> 
> I'm not sure I agree that a rear weight bias is easier to catch than
> a mid or front weight bias, particularly with the DeLorean because
> it is almost impossible to steer with the throttle. Coupled with a
> light front end, once it goes, it's gone.
> 
> --
> Mike
> 
> 
> -------------- Original message from "LJScarlet2" : -------------- 
> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Handling? Who had time to think about the handling? I was fearing 
> > for my life--and screaming! Plus, that burning rubber smell really 
> > demands your attention. 
> > 
> > In all fairness to Marc, and to his lovely vehicle, it was nothing 
> > but pure driving skill coupled with a slow-to-fishtail car that 
> > stopped us from plowing backwards into an SUV. 
> > 
> > In normal driving conditions, I have found the cornering to be quite 
> > good. Then again, I drive like a grandma ;) 
> > 
> > And, if my car has to spin, I'd rather the weight be in the back 
> > because it is easier for you to regain control since it is less 
> > disorienting than if the front was pushing the spin. 
> > 
> > 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
Yahoo! Groups Links








		
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vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 13
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:06:30 +0200 (MEST)
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>
Subject: Re: Fuel Economy



John - you judge your gas mileage after a 1/4 tank ?
I wouldn't trust the fuel guage / sensor. Test at least 
one whole tank full of gas to calculate the fuel consumption.

>From the numbers you wrote you should hang a bucket on your 
exhaust tips to catch the unburned fuel LOL

Elvis

> 
> 
> Hi all,
> I've noticed I've had somewhat decreased gas mileage lately. I can 
> drive my DeLorean about 36 or so miles avg. 55mph on a two-lane 
> highway, using about 1/4 tank of gas. My car is the 5-speed and I 
> shift smoothly with no problems. I don't know if my car just needs a 
> tune up or what. Is it just the fact that the car was tuned to the 
> standard 55 freeway speed/RPM's back then, or should have something 
> adjusted? My cousin once owned an 85' Trans-Am and it took him 1/4 
> to 1/3 of a tank just to drive 10 minutes to come over! (But that 
> was probably because he played around with the engine and maxed it 
> out to its limit.) Anyone have any gas problems like me? The prices 
> have been kind of crappy here lately.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> 
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see
> www.dmcnews.com
> 
> To search the archives or view files, log in at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Geschenkt: 3 Monate GMX ProMail + 3 Ausgaben der TV Movie mit DVD
++++ Jetzt anmelden und testen http://www.gmx.net/de/go/mail ++++






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 14
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:07:51 -0500
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Fuel Economy


John, I would start with replacing the 02 sensor. That is what regulates the
fuel to air mixture.
John Hervey
www.specialtauto.com
Delorean Parts Supplier..




-----Original Message-----
From: John Rydholm [mailto:ebondefender_at_dml_yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 11:50 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Fuel Economy





Hi all,
I've noticed I've had somewhat decreased gas mileage lately. I can
drive my DeLorean about 36 or so miles avg. 55mph on a two-lane
highway, using about 1/4 tank of gas. My car is the 5-speed and I
shift smoothly with no problems. I don't know if my car just needs a
tune up or what. Is it just the fact that the car was tuned to the
standard 55 freeway speed/RPM's back then, or should have something
adjusted? My cousin once owned an 85' Trans-Am and it took him 1/4
to 1/3 of a tank just to drive 10 minutes to come over! (But that
was probably because he played around with the engine and maxed it
out to its limit.) Anyone have any gas problems like me? The prices
have been kind of crappy here lately.








To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
Yahoo! Groups Links













________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 15
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:01:58 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Economy



Have you checked your tire pressures recently? How much weight do you
have in the trunk? How long has it been since the car was last
tuned-up? Does it start and run smoothly? Just about everything
affects fuel economy. Does the car pull to one side? Maybe a caliper
piston is stuck and the brakes drag. Your emergency (parking brake)
could be dragging or out-of-adjustment. I have found, contrary to most
infornmation, that the higher the octane you use the slightly better
your gas mileage. The difference in price does not give enough mileage
to compensate for the increased mileage but I do notice the effect. Do
not use the gas gauge, it is not accurate enough to measure fuel
economy. The only way to check your fuel effiecency is to fill the gas
tank, reset the trip odometer, use up the gas, refill the tank, note
the mileage and divide the mileage by the amout of fuel used to refill
the tank. You should do this for every tank used and you should do
this on all your vehicles. This is an excellant measure of how the
vehicle is performing and if the mileage starts to drop off it is an
indicator that something is going wrong.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "John Rydholm" <ebondefender_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> I've noticed I've had somewhat decreased gas mileage lately. I can 
> drive my DeLorean about 36 or so miles avg. 55mph on a two-lane 
> highway, using about 1/4 tank of gas. My car is the 5-speed and I 
> shift smoothly with no problems. I don't know if my car just needs a 
> tune up or what. Is it just the fact that the car was tuned to the 
> standard 55 freeway speed/RPM's back then, or should have something 
> adjusted? My cousin once owned an 85' Trans-Am and it took him 1/4 
> to 1/3 of a tank just to drive 10 minutes to come over! (But that 
> was probably because he played around with the engine and maxed it 
> out to its limit.) Anyone have any gas problems like me? The prices 
> have been kind of crappy here lately.








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 16
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:22:32 -0000
From: "ryanpwright" <yahoo1_at_dml_ryanwright.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Economy



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "John Rydholm" <ebondefender_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> I've noticed I've had somewhat decreased gas mileage lately. I can 
> drive my DeLorean about 36 or so miles avg. 55mph on a two-lane 
> highway, using about 1/4 tank of gas. My car is the 5-speed and I 
> shift smoothly with no problems. I don't know if my car just needs a 
> tune up or what. Is it just the fact that the car was tuned to the 
> standard 55 freeway speed/RPM's back then, or should have something 
> adjusted? My cousin once owned an 85' Trans-Am and it took him 1/4 
> to 1/3 of a tank just to drive 10 minutes to come over! (But that 
> was probably because he played around with the engine and maxed it 
> out to its limit.) Anyone have any gas problems like me? The prices 
> have been kind of crappy here lately.

What?? 36 miles on 1/4 tank? Ouch! I get about 220 miles in town on a
tank of gas before the gauge goes to empty. Mind you, I can drive
another 10-20 miles with the needle on E. Freeway driving, I get a
little better than this. I also have a 5 speed and quite frankly I
think my gas milage could be improved somewhat. Your milage is
terrible - something is definitely wrong.

I'll be watching this thread for clues on how to tweak my own milage a
bit, because I know it could be better.

-Ryan








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 17
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:51:46 +0000
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: Re: DeLorean Handling


Acceleration isn't the issue.  RWD, rear engined cars like to accelerate 
because the bulk of the weight is over the drive wheels to begin with, and 
the weight transfer to the rear during acceleration only increases grip.  
The problem is slowing down and turning.  When you lift off the throttle
or apply the brakes, weight is transferred to the front wheels.  This helps
turn in and front end grip.  That big 'ol engine mass out back wants to 
continue in the direction it had been going, which leads to instability
under braking and oversteer.  This is why the car is set up to understeer
as much as it is.  When a typical driver applies a steering input to the
car and the car does not go in the direction the driver intended, the
first reaction is to throw away the cell phone, scream like a girl, lift 
off the accelerator and grenade the brake pedal.  The bias towards 
understeer in all street cars is there to overcome the tendency of the 
chassis to oversteer, giving the driver more predictable results.


--
Mike


-------------- Original message from Chris Shepherd : -------------- 

> 
> 
> I must disagree. Ever driven a Porsche? 
> Living on the N Oregon coast I drive "twisties" all the time. Mine is the Island 
> twin turbo and I always accelerate through corners and have never had a problem 
> with the rear end breaking free. The Porsches I have owned would go into a 
> "drift" that was very controllable and for that matter so would the Corvairs. My 
> DeLoreans have only given me a problem once and that was on the I405/I5 merge in 
> CA where there was standing water that I couldn't see because of the amount of 
> rain at the time. Did a complete spin and continued on my way. The car did 
> sputter for a little while 'till the engine dried out. 
> 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 18
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 19:52:27 +0200
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>
Subject: AW: Re: door seal



Gerhard,

this problem is common though I never had to deal with it on my own car.

I know some guys who tried to get the rubber "used" to the position and
they always used a piece of cloth to close the door. The cloth was
positioned on the seal where it touches the door. Now they closed the
door and pulled the cloth out again. This pulled the seal so its regular
position.
But to be honest - I've seen him doing this for over a year now...

My suggestion would be to bend it into place with a hair dryer.

What about you guys out there ? I know this is a common problem.
How did you solve it ?

Elvis




Thank you Elvis, this is exactly the problem I have. Even the old
seal was damaged in this corner. But how can I fix the problem? Is it
a general problem or a problem of door adjustment or the seal itself?

Gerhard
vin 3092





--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_g...>
wrote:
>
> I don't see why he should adjust the anchor pins when they worked
properly
> before ?
>
> I guess he has the common problem now, that the inner door seal
> on the top front outer corner is touching the door when closing.
>
> Gerhard, check out if the seal is being pulled to the inside of the
> car when closing the door. That's very often a problem with new
door
> seals. Don't mess with the anchor pins if they were set correctly
before.
>
> Maybe it's a good idea to get you in touch with some other Austrian
> owners.
>
> Elvis & 6548
>
>
> >
> > It is very likely that the anchor pins that the door locks close
on
> > were adjusted to the old, worn door seals. With the new seals the
pins
> > must be readjusted. It is not too hard to do but if you don't
have a
> > lot of experience it could take a while of trial-and-error. Take
the
> > round rubber grommets off and you will see that you can put a
wrench
> ...cut....
>
> --
> +++ GMX DSL Premiumtarife 3 Monate gratis* + WLAN-Router 0,- EUR*
+++
> Clevere DSL-Nutzer wechseln jetzt zu GMX:
http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl








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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 19
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:06:11 -0000
From: "ryanpwright" <yahoo1_at_dml_ryanwright.com>
Subject: Re: Proper operation of mode switch



Thanks Bill & Dani. Appreciate your replies. I'll go pick up a hand
vaccum pump, and checkout that section of the workshop manual to
ensure my lines are setup correctly. 

I can't help but wonder if one of my diaphragms isn't working. How can
you tell whether they're working? I know there is one of them in the
dash that moves a metal bar. I can clearly see it move, so it's OK,
but I can't see if the others have anything similar (I can see the
diaphragms themselves, but don't see any actuators coming off of them
looking from underneath the driver's side).

Also -- Is the hot/cool knob supposed to change the location of air?
For instance, I get air out the vents when it's on one setting, but
change it and the airflow from the vents stops. I've never had a car
work this way before.

-Ryan

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Pages N:01:03-09 of the Workshop Manual show graphically which
> diaphragms should be activated for each HVAC mode switch setting. Text
> at the bottom of each page also explains quite well. Page N:08:15
> documents vacuum hose routing -- if you still have factory hoses
> simply follow their colored stripes ("pipe traces").
> 
> A hand vacuum pump is invaluable for trouble shooting vacuum operated
> devices. Will verify that all HVAC plumbing is indeed vacuum tight
> from the engine compartment Tee forward (remember: my leak was under
> the console). Can also use it to manually operate each ductwork
> diaphragm individually. 
> 
> Bill Robertson
> #5939
> 
> >--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "ryanpwright" <yahoo1_at_dml_r...> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > What is the proper operation of the mode switch? In other words, where
> > should I get air on the various settings?
> > 
> > Here's the deal: I get A/C just fine on the three A/C settings, but
> > there isn't much of a difference between them. The airflow is boosted
> > slightly when on max. Mid and low appear identical. When the
> > temperature is switched to hot, "vent" directs air at my feet,
> > "heater" doesn't seem to direct air anywhere, and "defrost" seems to
> > direct more air toward the windshield but not as much as I'd expect.
> > If I switch the temperature over to cold, all of this changes
> > completely!
> > 
> > So I dug into it tonight. The dreaded previous owner screwed up my
> > vaccumn lines. I did my best to sort them out, following the diagram
> > here (http://www.usadmc.com/dmcstore/images%5C730.gif). There was an
> > extra T where one shouldn't be, another with a missing hose, etc.
> > Anyway, I think it's all as it should be now, but the situation hasn't
> > changed any. 
> > 
> > I've:
> > 
> > 1. Rebuilt the mode switch. There are no vaccumn leaks that I know of
> > either up front or at the engine - doesn't mean they aren't there,
> > just that I don't know of them. :)
> > 
> > 2. Sealed (as best as I could) that foam behind the heater box with
> > some duct tape.
> > 
> > 3. Tried to sort out the vaccumn lines, I THINK they're correct, but
> > who knows.
> > 
> > Any thoughts?
> > 
> > -Ryan








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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 20
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:05:02 -0400
From: "Stainless_Illusion" <stainless_illusion_at_dml_insightbb.com>
Subject: Delorean Frame for sale


I have a Delorean Frame on eBay for sale at the moment.  I know there are
many with rusty frames so I figured
I would let everyone know about this.  You can contact me through ebay or
email privately if you have any questions.

-StainlessIllusion






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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 21
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 19:40:45 -0000
From: nicholden_at_dml_yahoo.com
Subject: Fuel tank breather



Hi, I am re-assembling my fuel tank after a good clean and new pump. 
I was just wondering if the metal breather rod inside the tank is 
ment to just sit on the bottom of the tank with no support and can 
swing 'side to side' pivoting on the point were it mounts to the 
tank. It just seems to me that it would bounce around inside the 
tank and cause a possible noise whilst driving over bumps? I'm not 
sure if mine is normal or loose etc or weather it is ment to be 
under tension.... I thought i'd ask the question before i put it 
completely back together.  

Cheers Nick 10927








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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 22
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 22:29:48 +0100
From: "Christopher Hawes" <chris_at_dml_chawes.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Re: DeLorean Handling


The Porsche issue of the similar layout to the DeLorean has always made me
curious and after a bit of research and help from a friend who is well
connected to the marque I found the following results.

The brand new Porsche 997 (has gone back to the round tail lamps again) has
the weight distribution of 63% at the rear and 37% at the front.  That's
exactly the same as the DeLorean.
The previous model, the 996 (Boxster headlamps) had 60% - 40% but did not
handle as well or involve the driver like the new model.  Suspension
technology is certainly a key factor.

The crucial element is the centre of gravity.  The Porsche has a flat six
and therefore a lower centre of gravity which obviously has a dramatic
effect on the handling.  Porsche has even considered the little things like
the car battery which is mounted centrally in the luggage compartment at the
front.

Having ridden in the new 911 (997) recently I found as the passenger I was
having the fun at 120mph plus in conditions where 90mph in the DeLorean
would feel just as engaging.

I also won a track day where I drove the Ferrari 360 Spyder, Noble M12 GTO
(twin turbo), Mercedes SL55 AMG, Lotus Exige and Dodge Viper RT/10.  The
Ferrari was a substitute for the Diablo SV which had a broken gearbox.  Sure
the explosive acceleration of some of the cars was electrifying, but the
quirkiness of my 23 year old DeLorean is still the car for me.  The Delorean
feels like a big, luxurious go kart, I love it!!!

I have the euro-spec performance set-up on my car and on a greasy surface I
can easily fish tale it from rest if desired.  So much so once that the rear
near side tail light fell out.  Another DeLorean behind me soon let me know.
That proved that you need 4 plus screws to maintain a fit.... that same unit
is now attached with the complete set of black stainless steel screws from
PJ Grady ....

Just my 2 pence

Chris H.
vin 5255

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Shepherd" <chrisau79_at_dml_yahoo.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: [DML] Re: DeLorean Handling


>
>
> I must disagree. Ever driven a Porsche?
> Living on the N Oregon coast I drive "twisties" all the time. Mine is the
Island twin turbo and I always accelerate through corners and have never had
a problem with the rear end breaking free. The Porsches I have owned would
go into a "drift" that was very controllable and for that matter so would
the Corvairs. My DeLoreans have only given me a problem once and that was on
the I405/I5 merge in CA where there was standing water that I couldn't see
because of the amount of rain at the time. Did a complete spin and continued
on my way. The car did sputter for a little while 'till the engine dried
out.
>
> David Teitelbaum <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> I have to agree with Mike. A rear weight bias is the worst case. Think
> of it as a pendulum. Once it starts swinging there is no way to stop
> it and the chance to correct is very small. Factor in the limited
> steering radius of the front wheels and you are very quickly past the
> point where you can catch and correct a spin. On top of that the rear
> will probably break loose without much warning so you don't know just
> where that edge of performance is without going over it. Now you might
> start to understand some of the inherent benefits of a front wheel
> drive car with a front engine over a rear wheel drive car with a rear
> engine. It will allow you to "power steer" through a spin. Changing
> the motor and increasing the weight in the rear will only cause things
> to get worse, not better. In fact the easier it is to spin the tires,
> the easier it will be to spin the car. Maybe a slightly underpowered
> Delorean was a safer Delorean! Of course there are many other
> variables, for instance the amount of fuel (weight) in the tank, the
> condition of the tires and road surface, temperature, etc.
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757
>






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 23
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:31:10 -0400
From: "Jack Stiefel" <jackstiefel_at_dml_stiefelaluminum.com>
Subject: RE: Prototype cars (DMC-24)


These are not a prototype car, but a pilot car used for promotional
purposes.  They are exactly like the production cars from what I
understand.

Jack

-----Original Message-----
From: John Rydholm [mailto:ebondefender_at_dml_yahoo.com] 
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 1:43 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DML] Prototype cars (DMC-24)




hmm, interesting. I've seen a photo once of a proto-DeLorean, but 
never knew there was more than just the one. Can you describe a few 
notable differences, or is it pretty much the same basic car?
-John
PS: If it's a prototype, the DMC-24, then why is the mass-produced 
car the DMC-12? I mean, you'd kinda think the numbers would go up 
like software releases or Gundam unit serial #'s lol!

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, alistair mccann 
<alistairmccann_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
> Hi Jay
>  
> I own one of the early test cars or pilot cars as they were 
known.  My car was one of 4 used to test the car on the public 
before it was launched.
>  
> The early proto cars are all in the states bar one which is 
supposedly still at Lotus in england.  One of the early cars was 
sold recently at auction - it is a non runner but still amazing to 
see, I think there are some pictures at dmcnews.com
>  
> Alistair.









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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 24
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 22:14:57 -0000
From: tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com
Subject: Re: DeLorean Handling



Mike - The problem here is that this is true of nearly every car, not 
just DeLoreans.  There is very little a car designer can do to thwart 
poor driving technique and bad judgement.  During a track day a few 
years ago, I watched a beautifully restored 1965 Jaguar XKE Coupe do 
multiple end flips and side rolls after he did this very thing while 
trying to show a Porsche driver "a thing or two".  I also have a 
friend who owned a Porsche 944 Turbo who did this while at speed on a 
freeway.  He was doing around 90 mph around a moderate curve, changed 
lanes while tapping the brakes lightly, and managed a perfect 720 
degree spin without touching either Jersey barrier.

When using throttle steer, you get understeer with the accelerator 
pedal down, and less understeer with deceleration (tending towards 
oversteer when you lift off too much or too suddenly).  If you do 
things incorrectly, you simply get more than you expect.  I 
personally feel that the DeLorean handles very well and predictable 
in most conditions - while admitting that Winged1 is not 
quite "stock" in several areas of the suspension.

Toby Peterson  VIN 2248 "Winged1"
DeLorean Parts Northwest, LLC
www.delorean-parts.com     

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, mike.griese_at_dml_w... wrote:
> 
> DeLoreans are easy to spin.  Just go into a turn at high speed, 
lift off the throttle quickly and tap the brakes.  








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 25
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 22:34:09 +0000
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: Re: DeLorean Handling


You are correct - it IS true of every other car.  The difference is that the 
effect is more pronounced in the DeLorean because of the weight 
distribution and center of gravity.  Physics rules!  Very good Porsche 
911 drivers use this tendency to their advantage to get the car to rotate 
faster in corners.  They can carry speed deeper into a turn and get back
on the throttle sooner on exit, which leads to faster lap times.  That is 
why Porsche has done so well in sportscar racing.  

And you are not completely correct with throttle steer.  Increased 
acceleration at the rear wheels does not always result in understeer.
Just ask any drifter.

--
Mike


-------------- Original message from tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com: -------------- 

> 
> 
> 
> Mike - The problem here is that this is true of nearly every car, not 
> just DeLoreans. There is very little a car designer can do to thwart 
> poor driving technique and bad judgement. During a track day a few 
> years ago, I watched a beautifully restored 1965 Jaguar XKE Coupe do 
> multiple end flips and side rolls after he did this very thing while 
> trying to show a Porsche driver "a thing or two". I also have a 
> friend who owned a Porsche 944 Turbo who did this while at speed on a 
> freeway. He was doing around 90 mph around a moderate curve, changed 
> lanes while tapping the brakes lightly, and managed a perfect 720 
> degree spin without touching either Jersey barrier. 
> 
> When using throttle steer, you get understeer with the accelerator 
> pedal down, and less understeer with deceleration (tending towards 
> oversteer when you lift off too much or too suddenly). If you do 
> things incorrectly, you simply get more than you expect. I 
> personally feel that the DeLorean handles very well and predictable 
> in most conditions - while admitting that Winged1 is not 
> quite "stock" in several areas of the suspension. 
> 
> Toby Peterson VIN 2248 "Winged1" 
> DeLorean Parts Northwest, LLC 
> www.delorean-parts.com 
> 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


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