From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2306
Date: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 12:47 AM


There are 20 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. PRV Timing -- DeLo vs Everyone Else
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

2. RE: Re: Ebay SCAM!! DMC Owners BEWARE
From: "Jason Sisto" <wizard_at_dml_tdgllc.com>

3. Trouble shifting into third (automatic)
From: "Mads de Bruin" <debruin_at_dml_dia.eur.nl>

4. Re: Re: Timing Gear Cover Leaking...Backfiring?
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net

5. Re: Smoking Manifolds
From: Martin Gutkowski - DMUK Ltd <martin_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

6. Re: Smoking Manifolds
From: Bob Brandys <BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com>

7. Wiring Diagram Question
From: doctorDHD_at_dml_aol.com

8. RE: Smoking Manifolds
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>

9. nitrous kit
From: "Marvin" <marv_at_dml_printeddrinkware.com>

10. Batt. warning light : LED or not ?
From: "ferdaniraphael" <raf40_at_dml_wanadoo.fr>

11. Re: Overtemp monitor / "dummy light"?
From: "ryanpwright" <yahoo1_at_dml_ryanwright.com>

12. Re: Okay, It Was A Bad Idea....
From: Jeff Phillips <rvparty_at_dml_gmail.com>

13. Re: Front wheel caster/camber
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

14. Re: Smoking Manifolds
From: "ryanpwright" <yahoo1_at_dml_ryanwright.com>

15. AW: Wiring Diagram Question
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>

16. Re: Trouble shifting into third (automatic)
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

17. Fuel pressures
From: "Jeff Phillips" <rvparty_at_dml_gmail.com>

18. Re: Ebay SCAM!! DMC Owners BEWARE
From: chrisau79_at_dml_yahoo.com

19. Re: Trouble shifting into third (automatic)
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>

20. Grid-lines over Taillights
From: Jan van de Wouw <delorean_at_dml_home.nl>





Message: 1
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 05:35:07 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: PRV Timing -- DeLo vs Everyone Else



Looking through the Workshop Manual tonight to answer another owner's
question I noticed Fig 28 on Page C:05:03 clearly depicts a 10 degree
BTDC timing scale, which of course is Douvrin spec for just about all
other PRVs including B28F.

Exactly why did DMC consider it necessary to flatten the advance curve
and bump up base ignition time on their ap only? I'd imagine a
significant boost in performance could be gained by simply
reactivating the other distributor counterweight (or replacing the
entire unit with a Volvo Xref) and sliding ignition back to where the
factory intended. 

BTW: Fig 1 on Page C:02:01 is clearly B27 or Z7 -- notice the CPR
vacuum connection and PCV through the U pipes. Oil pan is different
however. And the alternator has been moved to DeLo position. Won't
even mention the cooling fan blades...

Bill Robertson
#5939











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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 23:37:07 -0500
From: "Jason Sisto" <wizard_at_dml_tdgllc.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Ebay SCAM!! DMC Owners BEWARE


In response to a question about what the scam is about, it pertains to...
 
1)  Someone selling inferior products that...
              a) are NOT OEM and use the DMC logo;
              b) do not function properly; and
              c) would not live up to DMC owner's standards.
 
2)  Taking a buyer's money and supplying a defective, inferior product, then upon promising an exchange or refund, not doing anything but keeping the buyer's money!
 
As the old saying goes, buyer beware!!
 
-----Original Message----- 
From: ryanpwright [mailto:yahoo1_at_dml_ryanwright.com] 
Sent: Mon 11/1/2004 5:03 PM 
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com 
Cc: 
Subject: [DML] Re: Ebay SCAM!! DMC Owners BEWARE





	Everyone remember our previous discussion about someone owning the DMC
	logo? Here's an instance where it's a good idea.
	
	-Ryan
	
	--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "James" <james_at_dml_u...> wrote:
	>
	>
	> Interesting that they have the DMC logo on them. We've also contacted
	> Ebay as this isn't the first we've heard of them. Anyone else who has
	>
	
	
	
	
	
	To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
	moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
	
	For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com
	
	To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
	Yahoo! Groups Links
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 09:47:18 -0000
From: "Mads de Bruin" <debruin_at_dml_dia.eur.nl>
Subject: Trouble shifting into third (automatic)



Hi,

Last sunday I went for a drive with my DeLorean after standing still 
for four weeks. I ran into a problem that I had once before a few 
months ago but then it 'cured' itself but now I had more difficulty 
before the problem went away.
My problem is that my automatic D won't shift into third gear. It 
does after a while but this time it took a very long while.
I drove it around town for a while (about fifteen minutes) before I 
went onto the highway. As I accelerated it shifted fine from first to 
second but it wouldn't shift into third so I was making a lot of 
noise as well because I was driving close to 100km/h. I tried giving 
it gas and then let go slowly to try if it would shift in to third 
but no luck. After a while I floored the gas pedal to try to fool it 
I was down shifting and then let go of the gas, after about three 
tries it finally shifted into third. This all happend on a stretch of 
3 to 5 kilometers of highway. It drove fine after that except for 
once when I tried to pass another car. When I gave a little more gas 
(not much so it would downshift) it shifted back to second and then 
into third and into second and into third again quite rapidly.
After that I didn't have a problem again. Cruised down the highway 
for a while, stopped at home for about ten minutes and drove around 
for half an hour after that downtown and on the highway and never had 
a problem.
Before someone says, its the shift computer. It was rebuilt less than 
a year ago by DMC-service here in the netherlands. 
I als have to say that when it was shifting properly last sunday, it 
felt it was shifting a bit soon into the next gear.
I checked the transmission fluid and even though I think it is not 
the best dipstick, it still has enough fluid in it.
Could someone tell me all teh points I can check. I want to do a 
complete refreshment of all the fluids but someone who works with 
cars over here said that there could be something you can adjust so 
it would shift at the right rpm's.
All tips are welcome!

Thanks!
Mads de Bruin
2010








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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 14:06:20 +0000
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: Re: Timing Gear Cover Leaking...Backfiring?


This is true of any 4-stroke engine.  

--
Mike


-------------- Original message from "Matt Spittle" <supermatty_at_dml_psu.edu>: -------------- 


> 
> 
> Now THIS is an interesting point. So in other words, the ignition 
> timing of the DeLorean CANNOT be set by aligning the crankshaft pulley 
> marks and stabbing the distributor alone, because it might be on the 
> incorrect stroke. 
> 
> So the ONLY way to make sure it's ALWAYS right is to not only align 
> the pulley marks, but ALSO verify that you are on the correct stroke; 
> either by inserting something into the spark plug hole, or placing 
> your finger over it and waiting to feel "pressure." 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 13:31:37 +0000
From: Martin Gutkowski - DMUK Ltd <martin_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Smoking Manifolds


If you did as you should and used anti-sieze compound (eg copper grease) 
then this will smoke quite enthusiastically for the first 10 minutes or so

The manifold-to-crossover gaskets should not be paper.

Martin

motarhedd_at_dml_aol.com wrote:

>Both sides now smoke, lots of smoke, like they are burning something, it doesnt smell like exhaust or grease.
>i wonder if i should have put some permatex on either of the gaskets? or are the manifolds burning the greasy residue off of them?
>
>thanks,
>Russell Nicoulin
>Vin#1790
>  
>







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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 08:26:50 -0600
From: Bob Brandys <BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com>
Subject: Re: Smoking Manifolds


Russ,

Smoking is normal the first time start up.  Particularly if you had used 
rust penetrating oil.

BOB






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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 09:25:26 EST
From: doctorDHD_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Wiring Diagram Question


 
 
I believe you are referring to the RPM Relay
 
Dē & 6530
------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 12:57:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Stankiewicz <protodelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Wiring Diagram Question


Anybody know what the label should be for part 190  on
the wiring diagram?  My copy of the diagram shows
"190", but no  description.  I see the device in the
upper right hand corner of the  diagram, but was
wondering if anyone knows what it  is.





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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 09:18:52 -0500
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>
Subject: RE: Smoking Manifolds


Did you use any liquid wrench or any type of lubricating spray to assist in
removing the studs? That might be burning off. When I did mine I painted my
manifolds with a high temp paint. That lasted about 2 seconds as I watched
the paint burn away. If you painted them, that will produce smoke as well.

-----Original Message-----
From: motarhedd_at_dml_aol.com [mailto:motarhedd_at_dml_aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 10:55 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Smoking Manifolds



Hey all,

  i've been working on replacing the manifold gaskets on the car for the
last week now, seems like one big problem after another. first the passenger
side had a stripped stud, and a broken stud. got the stripped stud out with
a brand new pair of vise-grips, then the hole was stripped out after the
effort. tapped new threads and engineered a bracket to use the other holes
in the block. 

  So now the the new stainless steel gaskets are on and the manifold to
crossover pipe has a "paper?" gasket. Both sides now smoke, lots of smoke,
like they are burning something, it doesnt smell like exhaust or grease.
i wonder if i should have put some permatex on either of the gaskets? or are
the manifolds burning the greasy residue off of them?





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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 10:37:20 -0500
From: "Marvin" <marv_at_dml_printeddrinkware.com>
Subject: nitrous kit


Looking for a guy named Mike, ..............I think it was "Mike", from Detroit. I met you at the 2004 Woodward Dream Cruise. You have a DeLorean with a nitrous kit that your Dad installed a few years ago. I mentioned that I want to buy the kit and pay him to install it in my DeLorean. You said he could do it. I gave you my business card, which you may have misplaced.

Please contact me off line. 

If anyone on this list knows how to reach him, please contact me.

Anyone else have nitrous installed? Please contact me off line.
Thanks.

Marv.
# 17077

marv_at_dml_printeddrinkware.com
tel:  519-434-1666
cell: 519-852-1667
fax:  519-434-7071
toll free: 1-866-725-4665





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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 16:01:10 -0000
From: "ferdaniraphael" <raf40_at_dml_wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Batt. warning light : LED or not ?



As the "batt" warning light is part of the charging system on many 
cars, is there any drawback in swapping the bulb for a LED ? Would 
it affect the charging ?
thanks !

Raphael








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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 19:24:01 -0000
From: "ryanpwright" <yahoo1_at_dml_ryanwright.com>
Subject: Re: Overtemp monitor / "dummy light"?



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> wrote:
> 
> Yes, monitoring the engine is a big problem with a remote starter. If
> it is a 5-speed and you left it in gear you will surprise the
> neighbors!!!!!! You also should worry about oil pressure. I would
> install a neutral switch if possible and an engine monitor which could
> shut the engine down if the oil pressure got low or the temp got high.
> You also need an interlock so it cannot be activated if the engine is
> already running so you don't damage the starter or flywheel. In some
> areas there are laws against idling a motor more than a few minutes.
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757

David -

The car is a 5 speed, however my system already has provisions for
this. The car will only remote start if it is first exited and all
doors closed with the engine running. Once you close both doors, the
engine stops, doors lock, alarm arms itself and the car is
remote-start ready. This guarantees the car is not in gear without a
neutral switch. If a door is opened before remote-start is activated,
the feature is automatically killed and the car will not remote start
until the above procedure is repeated.

It also can not be activated while the engine is already running.
There is a tach sensor input into the alarm system, so it won't try to
auto-start it. There is also an ignition interlock so you can't
manually activate the starter with the key if the engine is running,
either.

Monitoring oil pressure sounds like a good idea, too. If that ends up
being easy to implement (anyone know how??) I'll add it. Simply
providing +12V or a hook to ground when pressure drops below a
threshold would be enough.

-Ryan








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Message: 12
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 15:40:39 -0600
From: Jeff Phillips <rvparty_at_dml_gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Okay, It Was A Bad Idea....


The isolation transformers that Bob is talking about are fairly common
on most RVs and motorhomes.  They run 2 batteries, one of which will
drive the 12V internal components like spot lights and whatever, while
the other is saved to restart the vehicle.  If you are planning
running a lot of electrical items and use two batteries this would be
a great way of doing it.  Just find your local RV service center for
parts.

Jeff
#10544


On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 18:03:26 -0600, Videobob Moseley
<videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>... they put in two batterys except one is on an isolation
> transformer that has all the
> electronics hooked up to it.
> Both batteries will charge when the car is running, but only one battery
> will run down
> from the electronics, this way the car will always start even if the other
> battery is dead.
> 





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Message: 13
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 15:08:22 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Front wheel caster/camber


The lower control arms bend easily if the tow truck driver used them.
On many import cars they have warning labels on the parts underneath
to try to prevent damage from "Ham-Handed" tow truck drivers. If they
are bent you should not attempt to straighten them. They should be
replaced. Bad shocks can cause tire wear but it usually causes
"cupping" or patches of wear, not a continuous pattern. Wear on one
edge of a tire indicates that the toe or the camber is off, not a bad
shock. The toe can be adjusted, the camber cannot. If the camber is
off it is usually due to something bent like the frame, upper or lower
control arm (lower being more common) or in your case possibly the
crumple zone being improperly replaced. It is pretty easy to tell if
the lower control arm is bent, you will see the flanges out-of-shape.
Again, you can measure the frame and compare the dimensions with the
drawing in the Workshop Manual. This stuff is usually beyond most
novice mechanic's abilities, you should take the car and the Workshop
Manual to a GOOD alignment shop. Does the car pull to one side while
driving and/or braking? Is the steering wheel straight when driving
straight? Does the car Dog-Leg, ie, are the rear wheels tracking
behind the front wheels? Is there any play in the steering? Does the
wheel turn equally in both directions? Is there vibration at any
speed? These are all things you should notice and be able to tell the
alignment shop as they help to indicate what the problem could be.
Another BIG thing is tire pressure. Make sure it is right. Driving
style also is a big factor. Are you hard on the brakes? Do you do a
lot of hard cornering? That can also wear the edges of a tire very
hard. These are the kind of things you need to mention when you go to
the shop.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "stainlessilusion" <5n-_at_dml_g...> wrote:
> 
> 
> You know what-This car was transported all the way from NC to NY and I
> remember these were used (as the tow loops on the frame were broken
> off in the front) to hold the car to the flat bed. I am positive the
> front end work was done correctly. My mission is to check out the sway
> bar, ball joints and see how much the lower arms move tomorrow.
> Suspension hasn't been lowered. So also- bad shocks too would cause
>







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Message: 14
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 19:30:31 -0000
From: "ryanpwright" <yahoo1_at_dml_ryanwright.com>
Subject: Re: Smoking Manifolds



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_v...> wrote:
> 
> Did you use any liquid wrench or any type of lubricating spray to
assist in
> removing the studs? That might be burning off. When I did mine I
painted my
> manifolds with a high temp paint. That lasted about 2 seconds as I
watched
> the paint burn away. If you painted them, that will produce smoke as
well.
> 

Yeah, I made the same mistake on my Fiero years ago. Had the manifolds
off to port them (there are restrictions in them that sap a good 5hp,
a little work on a grinder for 5hp is a wonderful thing) and decided,
"Hey, my engine compartment would look great if these were a bright red!"

So I bought the best, highest-temp engine paint I could find.  They
also looked great for about 2 seconds. The smell was unbearable, but
only lasted a few minutes before things were back to normal.

How much is "lots of smoke"? Did you get any oil on the manifolds?
Painting them or getting oil on them are two big things that will
produce *temporary* smoke. I stress temporary. 5-10 minutes of running
the car should clear it all up. 

-Ryan








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Message: 15
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 19:30:59 +0100
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>
Subject: AW: Wiring Diagram Question


Accroding to my notes 190 is the thermal fan switch or otterstat or whatever
you guys call it.

Elvis & 6548


Anybody know what the label should be for part 190 on
the wiring diagram?  My copy of the diagram shows
"190", but no description.  I see the device in the
upper right hand corner of the diagram, but was
wondering if anyone knows what it is.

Thanks,

=====
Steve

VIN 2650 ("Project Delorean")
www.projectdelorean.com






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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 00:24:16 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Trouble shifting into third (automatic)



Unfortunatly it does sound like the shift computer is the cause of
your shifting problems. Before going after it though you should do all
the external adjustments AS PER THE WORKSHOP MANUAL. This includes
checking the fluid levels. You can also clean all the plugs and
connectors for the trans, a loose connection might cause similar
symptoms. You can also build a light box to verify the shift computer
commands to actually see what gear the shift computer is telling the
transm ission to be in.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Mads de Bruin" <debruin_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Last sunday I went for a drive with my DeLorean after standing still 
> for four weeks. I ran into a problem that I had once before a few 
> months ago but then it 'cured' itself but now I had more difficulty 
> before the problem went away.
> My problem is that my automatic D won't shift into third gear. It 
> does after a while but this time it took a very long while.
> I drove it around town for a while (about fifteen minutes) before I 
> went onto the highway. As I accelerated it shifted fine from first to 
> second but it wouldn't shift into third so I was making a lot of 
> noise as well because I was driving close to 100km/h. I tried giving 
> it gas and then let go slowly to try if it would shift in to third 
> 








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Message: 17
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 22:10:50 -0000
From: "Jeff Phillips" <rvparty_at_dml_gmail.com>
Subject: Fuel pressures



I had a fun time at the mechanic today testing the fuel pressure 
values of my car and expecting to find something seriously wrong.  
Here are the results, I converted to lbs as the mechanic didn't have 
a fuel gauge with "bar" on it:
                  measured (spec)
Control Pressure: 55lbs    (49-55)
Primary Pressure: 70lbs    (71-79)
Rest Pressure   : 43lbs    (47)
- 10 mins later : 39lbs    (24)

Everything here seems to look ok to me, if not a little high on the 
control pressure and low on the primary.  Where should I start 
looking to solve an extremely rich fuel mixture and a consitent 
backfiring?  I've already adjusted the CO2 screw to the leanest that 
it will run at. Thanks!

Jeff 
#10544








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Message: 18
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 17:03:35 -0000
From: chrisau79_at_dml_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Ebay SCAM!! DMC Owners BEWARE


Looks like they're gone. Thanks guys, I almost went for it even 
though mine are fine. 


Chris

> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Jason Sisto" <wizard_at_dml_t...> wrote:
> > 
> > Fellow DMC Owners BEWARE!!
> >  
> > I purchased struts from http://stores.ebay.com/DYBusiness-Shop 
off
> e-bay.  The sellers Deric & Levin Yu claimed they were original
> DeLorean struts and when I recieved them, although they had the DMC
> logo on them, only opened 3/4 of the way. 





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Message: 19
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 23:04:36 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Trouble shifting into third (automatic)


It's time to get a new trans computer or get yours reworked. I 
wouldn't drive it with the abnormal shifting. Potiential for damage 
is too great. BTW, did does the trans go into third gear when the 
trans fuse is pulled? If it does then you have a very high probably 
that the trans computer is your only problem. 

John Hervey rebuilds them I understand but new ones are available.

Harold McElraft - 3354

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Mads de Bruin" <debruin_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Last sunday I went for a drive with my DeLorean after standing 
still 
> for four weeks. I ran into a problem that I had once before a few 
> months ago but then it 'cured' itself but now I had more 
difficulty 
> before the problem went away.
> My problem is that my automatic D won't shift into third gear.





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Message: 20
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 01:36:01 +0100
From: Jan van de Wouw <delorean_at_dml_home.nl>
Subject: Grid-lines over Taillights


Hi,

Asked this a couple of weeks back, but never got any responses.
I haven't gotten around to doing anything on my D,
so there's time to ask again:

I want to try something different with my taillights, but to
do so, I'd have to remove the gridlines from the lenses.

When I took a look at them, they seemed to be fused/melted
onto the casing, but quite some time ago I saw a DeLorean
completely missing the gridlines.
The owner hadn't even noticed himself!

Can't remember who it was, but I seem to remember
it was before I even owned a DeLorean myself,
which makes it over 4 years ago as of last september...


Can anyone shed some light onto this?
It's not 100% nessecary to remove them to do what I intend,
but it would make things a whole lot easier to do...

Thanks,

JAN van de Wouw

Thinking Different...   Using a Mac...
Living the Dream...   Driving a DeLorean...
Shifting Expectations...   Driving a Nissan...

DMC-12 "Dagger" since Sep. 2000
100NX "Saphire" since Nov. 2002
-------------------------------







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