From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2325
Date: Saturday, November 20, 2004 1:31 PM


There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: How do you affix the grill plate?
From: tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com

2. RE: Re: Another DMC newbie
From: "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>

3. Trip to DMCH and back to Springfield, MO
From: "sonnyvr2000" <sonnyvr2000_at_dml_yahoo.com>

4. Re: How do you affix the grill plate?
From: "sonnyvr2000" <sonnyvr2000_at_dml_yahoo.com>

5. Re: Door lock removal?
From: "sonnyvr2000" <sonnyvr2000_at_dml_yahoo.com>

6. Re: How do you affix the grill plate?
From: "painterdave72" <painterdave72_at_dml_yahoo.com>

7. Re: 17000 Vins..(filling in the blanks)
From: "James" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

8. Somebody has to have this carpet!!!!!!
From: "painterdave72" <painterdave72_at_dml_yahoo.com>

9. deloreans magazine
From: "James" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

10. Grinding noise while warming up.
From: "Ace Underhill" <aceu_at_dml_brilliantscreen.com>

11. Re: Another DMC newbie (Deloreans for sale)
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

12. New parts available/coming soon from DMC (Texas)
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

13. Re: Another DMC newbie
From: "Joe OBrien" <joeyoseppijoe_at_dml_yahoo.com>

14. no ign key
From: "heylacy" <heylacy_at_dml_yahoo.com>

15. Re: Another DMC newbie (Alex's Engine)
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

16. RE: Re: Another DMC newbie
From: "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>

17. Re: Another DMC newbie
From: "Alex" <alex_at_dml_deloreanowners.com>

18. New Interior Design
From: Josh Haldeman <jhaldeman_at_dml_fuse.net>

19. How do you affix the grill plate?
From: doctorDHD_at_dml_aol.com

20. RE: Re: Another DMC newbie
From: "D F" <funkstuf_at_dml_hotmail.com>

21. RE: Grinding noise while warming up.
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

22. RE: Re: Another DMC newbie (Alex's Engine)
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

23. Re: New parts available/coming soon from DMC (Texas)
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

24. Re: no ign key
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>

25. Re: deloreans magazine
From: "gullwingmagazine" <gullwingmagazine_at_dml_juno.com>





Message: 1
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 21:21:35 -0000
From: tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com
Subject: Re: How do you affix the grill plate?



Aaron - The three prongs are inserted through three matching holes in 
the grill, and then sheet metal speed nuts are threaded on to the 
prongs to secure the emblem.

Toby Peterson  VIN 2248 "Winged1"
DeLorean Parts Northwest, LLC
www.delorean-parts.com

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Aaron Crocco <acrocco_at_dml_g...> wrote:

>   I've just purchased a DMC emblem for my grill off of eBay and I 
need
> to know if there's any specific way this needs to be attached to the
> car.  I see it has the three prongs coming out of it but will I need
> any clips, nuts, washers, ect?  I know nothing about how to go about
> this so any and all information is appreciated.  Thanks everyone!









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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:46:43 -0600
From: "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Another DMC newbie


[Moderator Note: Although the discussion is getting close to ugly, so far no one has violated the rules.  If everyone keeps it civilized and puts their names to personal knowledge and experiences instead of opinions this thread will go on.  Step over the line and this thread is history.  - Mike Substelny, DML moderator of the week]


Alex, I haven't been following this thread, but are you saying that the 
engine in the car is the original PRV engine?

I know for fact that it isn't, and you have said yourself that it isn't when 
you took it to DMCH and they told that they didn't want to work on it because it was a non-standard 2.7 liter version of the Volvo engine.

I met with the previous owner Raphael who bought the car new, and he blew 
the original engine many years ago when he let it overheat. He replaced it with this smaller engine and "rigged" the rest. I believe he tossed the extra blown engine into the deal right?

I visited with him a year ago and drove the car myself, I have lots of 
detailed photos of it including the VIN number.

I could tell that the entire interior needed replacing, if not for the 
stains fading and cracks but for the nicotine drenched smell of a chain smoker.
The inside carpet was filthy, the headliner stained and brown, the dash 
cracked like the salt flats, the console has had all sorts of holes drilled in it with cheap toggle switches to replace all of the automatic electronics in the car, the rear wireing looks like a spaghetti explosion.....
The body is straight and clean, but the steering was stiff... however I 
think you fixed that right?  What I remember most about the car was how much effort it was to shift gears, I figured they were all like this but have learned they are not.

I looked at the photos in your auction and it looks like you have cleaned it 
up a lot, but the brown staining on all of the dash leather is seen in the photos and you do mention in the ad that these things need to be addressed.  The dash, binnacle, knee pads, center console, shift plate, arm rests, interior carpets and head liners all need to be replaced to get rid of the smoke smell, and to be clean and new looking. No amount of carpet shampooing or cleaning will fix this. You would be better off spray painting the leather grey with vinyl paint in the mean time.  This would make it look better and help seal up the moldy smoke smell.

Alex, you know I am not saying anything untrue unless of course you have 
fixed all of this stuff since then. I hate to toss you under the bus but I am just telling the truth. I have about 20 detailed photos of the car, the interior, the engine and the  vin number along with me and the owner, Raphael.

I think this car needs about $5000 worth of cosmetics, or maybe is a perfect 
restoration and good canidate for Houston's new interior package, along with thier new crate/engine upgrade. But as it sits, it would not satisfy most people.
The body however is very clean.

I would think that $8000 would be the max you could get for your car unless 
you did some major work. I think you should keep it, gut it out, replace the interior and get someone  who really knows engines to fix it up for you.

I appologize for saying all these negative things about your car, but to be 
honest with you that is what this forum is for. No one ever cuts me a break on here either.

I think your ad is honest for the most part, but the engine is not original
and is also not an original PRV.

I told you long ago when you asked me about it that you had made a mistake 
buying the car, and that you are faced with taking a loss, in either selling the 
car for much less than you paid for it or investing more money into it to get it right.  Either way is will cost you about $5000, either in loss or investment.

Remember the $20,000 rule.
You can't get around it!
(unless of course you win a raffle car!)

- Videobob



>From: "Alex" <alex_at_dml_deloreanowners.com>
>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [DML] Re: Another DMC newbie
>Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:12:47 -0000
>
>
>
>
>Hey Joe, prove to me its not an original engine. I dont recall you
>coming to take a look at it. In fact, I dont recall you even seeing
>a closeup of the engine! To my knowledge, this is NOT a variation of
>the PRV. I have seen no concrete proof, and thats what I am basing
>my descrption on. I even had someone who is very kowledgable tell me
>it WAS a OEM engine. And no, not cleaning the car does NOT speak
>about me, I am a very clean and honest person. Just dont have any
>time, literally, thats why I am selling. I am a bit shocked and the
>lack of support from this list. Especially at how quick people are
>to badmouth me as a person.


[long quote snipped by moderator]





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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 22:51:07 -0000
From: "sonnyvr2000" <sonnyvr2000_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Trip to DMCH and back to Springfield, MO



I've had my car at DMC (Houston) for the past couple days having a
little list of "pre-winter" things done on my car - hoses, grounds and
an alternator, and a set of seat covers.

Warren, Bill, James and Stephen have all been real cool to be around,
and I know I've probably been a pain in the neck. James showed me some
of the new stuff they are working on for the winter/spring and it's
good that we've got guys like DeLorean Motor Center, PJ Grady and DMCH
putting stuff out like they do (and I say this after dropping almost
$2000 here this time!).

Headed back to Springfield, MO this afternoon, anyone on the OK City
area want to meet for lunch on Sunday? Email me at sonnyvr2000_at_dml_yahoo.com!

Sonny V.








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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 22:53:48 -0000
From: "sonnyvr2000" <sonnyvr2000_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: How do you affix the grill plate?



The logo on the grille is held on with something called a "spire fix",
and the parts manual says it is SP10418. Looks like a washer with
cutouts inside and it presses on the posts on the back of the emblem
to hold it on. Warren at DMCH told me that they are unavailable and
that he tells people to try and re-use the old ones.

Sonny V.
getting winterized at DMCH

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Aaron Crocco <acrocco_at_dml_g...> wrote:
> 
> Hey everyone,
> 
>   I've just purchased a DMC emblem for my grill off of eBay and I need
> to know if there's any specific way this needs to be attached to the
> car.  I see it has the three prongs coming out of it but will I need
> any clips, nuts, washers, ect?  I know nothing about how to go about
> this so any and all information is appreciated.  Thanks everyone!
> 
> -Aaron Crocco
> VIN 5591
> NY Plate:  OUTATYM








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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 23:11:02 -0000
From: "sonnyvr2000" <sonnyvr2000_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Door lock removal?



Greg -

I remember reading on the other Delorean yahoo group that someone was
making these, Andrei Cular, maybe? Someone else who is on both lists
might remember who.

My car was converted before I bought it, and I'd rather have the 1 key
setup after hearing about the problems people have with those locks.

Sonny V.


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "gzapf" <x86Daddy_at_dml_m...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Toby, Bob, Kevin, anyone else in the queue: thanks for all the replies
> so far.  Unfortunately, I'm now certain that I actually have the
> original style door locks, (no clip, black fronts on the locks) even
> though the ignition key worked in the driver door.
> 
> Has anyone ever removed the original style lock without breaking the
> retaining grommet?
> 
> Thanks,
> --Greg
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Bob Brandys <BobB_at_dml_s...> wrote:
> > 
> > You have to remove the inside upper door panel and reach way into the 
> > door.  
> > 
> > There is a U shaped friction slide bracket that holds the lock in.
> > 
> > Sometimes i

t slides off with hand pressure.  Sometimes you need to pry 
> > it off.








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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 23:35:44 -0000
From: "painterdave72" <painterdave72_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: How do you affix the grill plate?



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Aaron Crocco <acrocco_at_dml_g...> wrote:
> 
> Hey everyone,
> 
>   I've just purchased a DMC emblem for my grill off of eBay and I need
> to know if there's any specific way this needs to be attached to the
> car.  I see it has the three prongs coming out of it but will I need
> any clips, nuts, washers, ect?  I know nothing about how to go about
> this so any and all information is appreciated.  Thanks everyone!
> 
> -Aaron Crocco
> VIN 5591
> NY Plate:  OUTATYM

Hey Aaron its just held in by some twist on self tapping nuts... just take it to an 
auto parts store and they should have some that fit... Dave..








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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 00:08:16 -0000
From: "James" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: Re: 17000 Vins..(filling in the blanks)



Rich,

It'd be interesting to know what's under the headliners on all these
15XXX, 16XXX, 17XXX and 20XXX vins.

In my experience here, the 15XXX vins all have 10XXX numbers on them -
where the XXX is the last three digits on the VIN.

The 16XXX vins are 11XXX cars underneath the headliners.

I've got one 17XXX vin here now in Houston, and I know I've looked
under it before and if I recall correctly, it was a 12XXX vin underneath.

Haven't seen a 20XXX vin car for awhile, but we have a handful of
doors here that have 20XXX marked on them, that are either damaged or
with numbers HIGHER than the last known car (20104).

James

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_o...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Laurent and List,
> 
> Thanks for the additional 17xxx series information and I encourage
> every Delorean owner to send in or update their car's information
> to be included in the next Delorean Owners Directory release and
> (or) to be included in the next Delorean Chronology update.









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Message: 8
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 23:34:03 -0000
From: "painterdave72" <painterdave72_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Somebody has to have this carpet!!!!!!



Hey all does anyone know of anyone who has a new piece of carpeting for 
the right hand door sill for grey cars?? Or does anyone know if Houston is 
going to be reproducing it anytime soon?>??  Thanks.. Dave.Vin# 15275..








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Message: 9
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 00:11:05 -0000
From: "James" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: deloreans magazine



The latest issue was mailed late last week and should have hit all the
US mailboxes by now. International subscribers should see it sometime
next week. This is the issue that covers the new interior of the show
car with all the "in progress" pictures. I'd welcome comments from
anyone who wishes to email or post about it.

James








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Message: 10
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:49:37 -0700
From: "Ace Underhill" <aceu_at_dml_brilliantscreen.com>
Subject: Grinding noise while warming up.


Since the weather got cold in AZ, I've got a loud grinding noise coming from the engine
bay after starting up the engine for about 7 or 8 minutes afterwards.
I can't see anything visible rubbing, but it sounds like metal-on-metal.
It happens with or without the car moving, and RPM changes seem to affect it
randomly.  Any ideas on what to check?

-Ace
 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 11
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:50:46 -0600
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: Re: Another DMC newbie (Deloreans for sale)


Another place to look for DeLoreans for sale is your favorite 
full-service vendor - DeLorean Motor Center, PJ Grady and us (DMC 
Texas) usually have at handful of cars available for sale. We'll know 
their history and can tell you without a doubt what they need and don't 
need.

We've sold a about 15 cars since March of this year:

http://www.delorean.com/sales.asp

We're adding more cars as we get them in, whether they are cars that we 
actually own and are reselling or cars that we have on consignment for 
sale. We're hoping that this will turn into an "MLS" or multiple 
listing service of sorts with DeLoreans. One of the cars on our site 
now is available from DeLorean Motor Center in California. I'm hoping 
to be able to add a car that will be available from PJ Grady in the 
coming weeks, as well.

James



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_o...> wrote:
 >
 > (SNIP)
 > A better option for most Delorean purchases is the DMC News
 > Deloreans For Sale page, where there is 30 - 50 Deloreans for
 > sale at any given time and it is still the largest continuous
 > source for Deloreans for sale.  Most of the ads on DMC News
 > run longer than 7 - 10 days, so you have time to have the car
 > inspected, either in person or by another Delorean enthusiast.
 > snip <






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Message: 12
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 19:07:16 -0600
From: James Espey <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: New parts available/coming soon from DMC (Texas)


The $99 clutch master cylinders are available now in limited 
quantities, with full supplies expected on hand the week of December 
6th. These are brand new clutch masters, made especially for us and 
it's expected that they will be available from all the full-service 
vendors, as well. And with clutch masters done, can the brake masters 
be far behind? (hint hint)

The 101644 Fuel Pump Support (the metal bracket in the tank that holds 
the boot/pump assembly) is now being reproduced in stainless steel and 
will be available in December for $29.95. The plastic fuel tank can't 
rust, but many of these original, mild steel supports are very rusted 
and contribute to fuel tank contamination problems. Whether you have 
fuel tank problems or not, you might consider replacing this item the 
new stainless steel one and then forgetting about it. In addition to 
being made of this better material, we've also lowered the price to 
$29.95, and this is also expected to be available from the full-service 
vendors, as well.

Someone asked about coolant bottles and reproduction plastic ones. We 
had thought about that, and decided against it and are sticking with 
the metal ones. These new stainless ones (with stainless filler necks, 
too) should be ready in December, as well. We've had the label 
information actually etched into the surface of the bottle and they 
look really sharp. Pricing still be worked out, but they will also 
sport a lower price than our current retail of $189.50.

The stainless exhaust that is replacing our coated, mild steel 
performance version is still in development, as well. We've listened to 
what people have said, and are trying to reduce the noise level, which 
is meaning that we are having to make a new muffler. Tooling for that 
has added to the development time, as we want to keep it compatible 
with the existing setups we've already sold/installed in case someone 
wants to change it out. Pricing for this all stainless version will be 
the same or less than the mild steel ones because of the quantities we 
are buying these - we're no longer buying them in groups of 5 or 10, 
but 50 and 100.

If you have an interest in the seats as shown in our show car - 
gray/black two-tone, WITH OR WITHOUT the heated and cooled option, let 
me know as we are evaluating how many sets to order as we prepare to 
re-order the seat cover sets. Availability is expected for spring 
2005...

James Espey
DMC (Texas)
http://www.delorean.com
800/872-3621
281/441-2537






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Message: 13
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 01:08:31 -0000
From: "Joe OBrien" <joeyoseppijoe_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Another DMC newbie



alex,

Not trying to butt heads, but I said it wasn't an original engine 
because you yourself stated it in a previous advertisement for the 
vehicle. Then to list it for sale and not even mention it seems 
kinda fishy. Most eBayers have no idea of knowing this until after 
they would buy a car, and that is information that looks bad if not 
presented up front. Not saying anything is bad about the engine, 
just the fact it isn't mentioned causes concern. I saw about 10 
pictures of the engine close-up on your old web page where you were 
selling it for 11k because you thought it had an oil leak. So yes, I 
have seen the engine close-up.

And the comment about washing, if someone can't take 2 hours out of 
a month to present a vehicle for sale in a semi-clean state, then 
how much do they really care for the car? It just makes the ad look 
bad, and regardless of your schedule, listing a filthy car makes it 
look bad on the seller.

When you list a vehicle for sale, and put photos of it up, criticism 
is just part of the territory. Using the old claim "I', too busy to 
wash it" for the pictures is just plain lazy. Unless you work 20 
hours a day 7 days a week, most anyone can squeeze in an hour to 
wipe off the crud on the car.

The list is not badmouthing you directly, just generally on the 
person who lists a car in that state, the same as I would anyone 
else who lists a car in a similar fashion. everyone gets treated the 
same, when they post an ad in a public forum.

Best of luck selling the car though. It would look better on your 
part if you were just upfront with everything in the first place.


Good Luck,

Joe OBrien










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Message: 14
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 01:53:09 -0000
From: "heylacy" <heylacy_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: no ign key



Hi, im looking at a 81 sat. owner has no ign. key. he had one made 
from the compartment door and it opens doors and glove box but not 
ign. is there an easy way to pull ign lock to replace without damage 
to steering colume? what key-lock will fit this car? thanks , lacy








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Message: 15
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 04:27:55 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Another DMC newbie (Alex's Engine)



People, please -- a little civility goes a long way.

This car's engine came up for discussion last spring -- see Message
#39625 and thread preceding/following. Alex also sent me some engine
pics off List at that time. My conclusion: everything north of the
heads, except for hard steel injector lines, is consistent with stock
DeLo, not Renault Z7 series:
- Two piece fuel/air mixture unit (separate throttle plate assembly,
which means the throttle plates themselves probably have deceleration
valves)
- Idle speed microswitch and throttle plate trigger
- Cast iron fuel distributor (versus aluminum)
- Lambda
- PCV through cold start tube, not U pipes
- Shear head balancing screws
- 066 series CPR
- No fuel dampener
In fact lines to the cold start valve and CPR are flouroelastometric,
not steel. Only things visibly not DeLo are the steel injector lines
themselves (which I hasten to point out are much easier to work with
and around than flouroelastometric).

Someone needs to do a compression test on Alex's engine to determine
if the block itself has European or North American pistons. If that
person is feeling especially industrious, he or she can remove the
timing chain cover and look at part numbers stamped into the ends of
the camshafts to determine if the cylinders are 2.7 or 2.8 liter.

What is this allure with "DeLo" engines anyway? With the exception of:
- Missing ignition distributor counterweight
- Proprietary water pump and crankshaft belt pulleys
- Missing smog pump
- Different A/C compressor & alternator
- Proprietary exhaust manifolds? (No air injection)
there is absolutely no difference between a "DeLo" PRV and Volvo B28F.
That *WAS* DMC's intention of using an engine already certified for US
emissions on such short notice... 

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Alex" <alex_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hey Joe, prove to me its not an original engine. I dont recall you 
> coming to take a look at it. In fact, I dont recall you even seeing 
> a closeup of the engine! To my knowledge, this is NOT a variation of 
> the PRV. I have seen no concrete proof, and thats what I am basing 
> my descrption on. I even had someone who is very kowledgable tell me 
> it WAS a OEM engine. And no, not cleaning the car does NOT speak 
> about me, I am a very clean and honest person. Just dont have any 
> time, literally, thats why I am selling. I am a bit shocked and the 
> lack of support from this list. Especially at how quick people are 
> to badmouth me as a person. 
> 









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Message: 16
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 23:12:02 -0600
From: "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Another DMC newbie


In defense of Alex, although it speaks badly of the car,
I am not sure you really can "clean" the car up.
The outsise yes, but the interior is badly stained.
The leather and dash have turned brown from mold, fading and cigarette 
smoke.
The interior absolutely needs to be replaced from top to bottom to make the 
car
worthy of it's name.
This is really not all that expensive, we all know that you can get the new 
seat covers
for $600, the whole carpet for both sides is about what, $300 or so?
The dash, binnacle and knee pads can be traded in and recovered by Josh for 
real cheap
and the headliners recovered by ANY upholstery shop for not much money.
I would say you could re-do the inside this way for like, less than $3000?
This would give you an all new inside!

As for the engine, sure it runs and drives but it is a little rough.
I would yank it and put it one of DMCH's crate engine upgrades.
So you would have a clean body car with a new upgraded engine and a new
interior for less than $20K and that ain't bad.

Most of us have spent at LEAST $20K on our cars, I know I have!
(.... and I don't have a new engine!)

So it's all how you look at it.
- Videobob

>From: "Joe OBrien" <joeyoseppijoe_at_dml_yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [DML] Re: Another DMC newbie
>Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 01:08:31 -0000
>
>
>
>
>alex,
>
>Not trying to butt heads, but I said it wasn't an original engine
>because you yourself stated it in a previous advertisement for the
>vehicle. Then to list it for sale and not even mention it seems
>kinda fishy. Most eBayers have no idea of knowing this until after
>they would buy a car, and that is information that looks bad if not
>presented up front. Not saying anything is bad about the engine,
>just the fact it isn't mentioned causes concern. I saw about 10
>pictures of the engine close-up on your old web page where you were
>selling it for 11k because you thought it had an oil leak. So yes, I
>have seen the engine close-up.
>
>And the comment about washing, if someone can't take 2 hours out of
>a month to present a vehicle for sale in a semi-clean state, then
>how much do they really care for the car? It just makes the ad look
>bad, and regardless of your schedule, listing a filthy car makes it
>look bad on the seller.
>
>When you list a vehicle for sale, and put photos of it up, criticism
>is just part of the territory. Using the old claim "I', too busy to
>wash it" for the pictures is just plain lazy. Unless you work 20
>hours a day 7 days a week, most anyone can squeeze in an hour to
>wipe off the crud on the car.
>
>The list is not badmouthing you directly, just generally on the
>person who lists a car in that state, the same as I would anyone
>else who lists a car in a similar fashion. everyone gets treated the
>same, when they post an ad in a public forum.
>
>Best of luck selling the car though. It would look better on your
>part if you were just upfront with everything in the first place.
>
>
>Good Luck,
>
>Joe OBrien





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Message: 17
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 05:29:19 -0000
From: "Alex" <alex_at_dml_deloreanowners.com>
Subject: Re: Another DMC newbie




I am saying that I was informed by a vendor that the engine was in 
fact a PRV. All the things that looked "unoriginal" were traced and 
explained. If you climbed in the car now, you wouldn't smell a bit 
of smoke. All gone. I did a ton of work to the car, and its really 
coming along. The engine thing gets on my nerves though; the engine 
is identical to the B28!! The "extra" parts that were "rigged" were 
additions, and that's all. John Hervey and I went over the car 
thoroughly, and figured out what they were. One hose patched in was 
the extra temperature sensor for the extra gauge. The other was for 
the oil pressure gauge. The throttle switch was put on backwards, 
that's all!!!! Oh yeah, fuel lines were steel not rubber. There is 
no more "rigging" on the car. There is NO smoke smell, and the 
engine is original. The shift plate with the holes drilled was 
replaced. Toggle switches removed, and replaced with brand new dummy 
switches. When John came down to visit, he brought and installed a 
new alternator, passenger window switch, and helped fix a few other 
things. All in all, there is not THAT much wrong with the car. So 
far you guys have effectively scared off any potential buyers, and I 
really don't see what the point is. I am NOT lying to anyone; I am 
telling it like it is. The car is a good buy, and for about $5k 
could be in amazing shape. That's all there is too it.

Yeah, I probably could have washed it, and will if this rain ever 
lets up.


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_h...> 
wrote:
> 
> [Moderator Note: Although the discussion is getting close to ugly, 
so far no one has violated the rules.  If everyone keeps it 
civilized and puts their names to personal knowledge and experiences 
instead of opinions this thread will go on.  Step over the line and 
this thread is history.  - Mike Substelny, DML moderator of the week]
> 
> 
> Alex, I haven't been following this thread, but are you saying 
that the 
> engine in the car is the original PRV engine?
> 
> I know for fact that it isn't, and you have said yourself that it 
isn't when 
> you took it to DMCH and they told that they didn't want to work on 
it because it was a non-standard 2.7 liter version of the Volvo 
engine.
> 
> I met with the previous owner Raphael who bought the car new, and 
he blew 
> the original engine many years ago when he let it overheat. He 
replaced it with this smaller engine and "rigged" the rest. I 
believe he tossed the extra blown engine into the deal right?
> 
> I visited with him a year ago and drove the car myself, I have 
lots of 
> detailed photos of it including the VIN number.
> 
> I could tell that the entire interior needed replacing, if not for 
the 
> stains fading and cracks but for the nicotine drenched smell of a 
chain smoker.
> The inside carpet was filthy, the headliner stained and brown, the 
dash 
> cracked like the salt flats, the console has had all sorts of 
holes drilled in it with cheap toggle switches to replace all of the 
automatic electronics in the car, the rear wireing looks like a 
spaghetti explosion.....
> The body is straight and clean, but the steering was stiff... 
however I 
> think you fixed that right?  What I remember most about the car 
was how much effort it was to shift gears, I figured they were all 
like this but have learned they are not.
> 
> I looked at the photos in your auction and it looks like you have 
cleaned it 
> up a lot, but the brown staining on all of the dash leather is 
seen in the photos and you do mention in the ad that these things 
need to be addressed.  The dash, binnacle, knee pads, center 
console, shift plate, arm rests, interior carpets and head liners 
all need to be replaced to get rid of the smoke smell, and to be 
clean and new looking. No amount of carpet shampooing or cleaning 
will fix this. You would be better off spray painting the leather 
grey with vinyl paint in the mean time.  This would make it look 
better and help seal up the moldy smoke smell.
> 
> Alex, you know I am not saying anything untrue unless of course 
you have 
> fixed all of this stuff since then. I hate to toss you under the 
bus but I am just telling the truth. I have about 20 detailed photos 
of the car, the interior, the engine and the  vin number along with 
me and the owner, Raphael.
> 
> I think this car needs about $5000 worth of cosmetics, or maybe is 
a perfect 
> restoration and good canidate for Houston's new interior package, 
along with thier new crate/engine upgrade. But as it sits, it would 
not satisfy most people.
> The body however is very clean.
> 
> I would think that $8000 would be the max you could get for your 
car unless 
> you did some major work. I think you should keep it, gut it out, 
replace the interior and get someone  who really knows engines to 
fix it up for you.
> 
> I appologize for saying all these negative things about your car, 
but to be 
> honest with you that is what this forum is for. No one ever cuts 
me a break on here either.
> 
> I think your ad is honest for the most part, but the engine is not 
original
> and is also not an original PRV.
> 
> I told you long ago when you asked me about it that you had made a 
mistake 
> buying the car, and that you are faced with taking a loss, in 
either selling the 
> car for much less than you paid for it or investing more money 
into it to get it right.  Either way is will cost you about $5000, 
either in loss or investment.
> 
> Remember the $20,000 rule.
> You can't get around it!
> (unless of course you win a raffle car!)
> 
> - Videobob

[long quote snipped by moderator]








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Message: 18
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 00:33:48 -0500
From: Josh Haldeman <jhaldeman_at_dml_fuse.net>
Subject: New Interior Design


Hi James,

I was interested in knowing more about the philosophy behind choosing 
the specific design and layout of the interior.

Although the new design is visually appealing, it seems to me that, just 
like the original interior, it lacks that DeLorean branding that is so 
strong on the outside of the car.  As a product designer, everyday I 
have to consider how to develop new commercial products that retain the 
same identity of products that have been produced by that company in the 
past.  That branding can be accomplished through shapes, parting line 
locations, patterns, colors, textures and materials.  Like I said, this 
design is visually appealing, but if it didn't have a DMC logo on the 
steering wheel hub and gauges, I would guess that I was in an Audi.

I still like it...it's far better than what John and Giugiaro came up 
with for the production car...but considerations could be made to have 
it match the original timeless styling of the outside of the car, rather 
than just create a "snapshot" of everything that's popular and appealing 
in 2004...unless of course, that was what you were going for.

Just my professional opinion.  I'm paid to be this critical with my 
company, and I would want you to expect no less from me here.

-Josh



James wrote:

>
>The latest issue was mailed late last week and should have hit all the
>US mailboxes by now. International subscribers should see it sometime
>next week. This is the issue that covers the new interior of the show
>car with all the "in progress" pictures. I'd welcome comments from
>anyone who wishes to email or post about it.
>
>James





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Message: 19
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 07:05:59 EST
From: doctorDHD_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: How do you affix the grill plate?


 
 
Aaron,
 
As far as I remember it just pushes into the holes in the grill.
 
Do it slowly and evenly.


 
D &  6530


"Just Say  NO, to the COUCH POTATO!"




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 20
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 06:40:58 +0000
From: "D F" <funkstuf_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Another DMC newbie



This one's been drained, but, seems common sense to just go see the car and 
decide what to offer.
I bought a car on e-bay based on pictures and phone calls.  I got somewhat 
lucky, but, there were a few surprises and it could have been a lot worse 
than it was.  Fortunately, I didn't pay too much but the lesson learned was 
simple.  Find a car in your area, look at it yourself and decide how much 
you'd be willing to pay for it.  The site has told you the big things to 
look for like rust on the frame etc.  The other stuff is pretty easy to 
price out.  Also, all these Deloreans need money put into them continuously 
and as much as we all love them we really don't like to tell how much time 
and money we spend on them.  So know up front that you'll always be spending 
money on it.

Dale Funk
4984







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Message: 21
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 06:20:38 -0600
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Grinding noise while warming up.


Ace, You might consider listening around the clutch throw out bearing or the
AC idler pulley's bearing.
John Hervey
www.specialtauto.com




-----Original Message-----
From: Ace Underhill [mailto:aceu_at_dml_brilliantscreen.com]
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 6:50 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Grinding noise while warming up.




Since the weather got cold in AZ, I've got a loud grinding noise coming from
the engine
bay after starting up the engine for about 7 or 8 minutes afterwards.
I can't see anything visible rubbing, but it sounds like metal-on-metal.
It happens with or without the car moving, and RPM changes seem to affect it
randomly.  Any ideas on what to check?

-Ace





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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 22
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 06:13:49 -0600
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Another DMC newbie (Alex's Engine)


The best I can tell it is a PRV6 engine. I personally installed a D140
alternator. The AC compressor is standard Delorean just turned side ways by
the mounting and has the standard AC idler pulleys as best I can remember.
Other than the metal lines which I see on other cars and a little creative
wiring in the engine compartment with the cold start valve it looks like
stock engine to me.
John Hervey
www.specialtauto.com





-----Original Message-----
From: content22207 [mailto:brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net]
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 10:28 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: Another DMC newbie (Alex's Engine)





People, please -- a little civility goes a long way.

This car's engine came up for discussion last spring -- see Message
#39625 and thread preceding/following. Alex also sent me some engine
pics off List at that time. My conclusion: everything north of the
heads, except for hard steel injector lines, is consistent with stock
DeLo, not Renault Z7 series:
- Two piece fuel/air mixture unit (separate throttle plate assembly,
which means the throttle plates themselves probably have deceleration
valves)
- Idle speed microswitch and throttle plate trigger
- Cast iron fuel distributor (versus aluminum)
- Lambda
- PCV through cold start tube, not U pipes
- Shear head balancing screws
- 066 series CPR
- No fuel dampener
In fact lines to the cold start valve and CPR are flouroelastometric,
not steel. Only things visibly not DeLo are the steel injector lines
themselves (which I hasten to point out are much easier to work with
and around than flouroelastometric).

Someone needs to do a compression test on Alex's engine to determine
if the block itself has European or North American pistons. If that
person is feeling especially industrious, he or she can remove the
timing chain cover and look at part numbers stamped into the ends of
the camshafts to determine if the cylinders are 2.7 or 2.8 liter.

What is this allure with "DeLo" engines anyway? With the exception of:
- Missing ignition distributor counterweight
- Proprietary water pump and crankshaft belt pulleys
- Missing smog pump
- Different A/C compressor & alternator
- Proprietary exhaust manifolds? (No air injection)
there is absolutely no difference between a "DeLo" PRV and Volvo B28F.
That *WAS* DMC's intention of using an engine already certified for US
emissions on such short notice...

Bill Robertson
#5939

[moderator snip]





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Message: 23
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 08:53:22 EST
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: New parts available/coming soon from DMC (Texas)


When will the stainless fuel pump support bracket be avail
I have a car apart and would rather put that back in it but if its the  later 
part of Dec rather than the earlier part I will have to put it back  together 
since I want it done before X mas
 
Thanks
 
Ken


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 24
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 14:23:29 -0000
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Re: no ign key



There's usually no need to go to all that trouble.

If you pull the driver's side headliner, the computer code for the 
key is usually written in black marker on the bare metal. This was 
done at the factory.

Key blanks are readily available, either from DMCH or sometimes from 
your local hardware store. I've even seen them sold on Ebay but 
they're overpriced. The single-key cars used an ilco x29, the two-
key system cars (earlier VINS) used an ilco x29 and another type 
which I forget. (x30 or 33?)

Once you get the blanks, you can go to any locksmith with a cutting 
computer system and he'll plug the numbers in and it'll cut a new 
key without having to have the original.

Kevin Creason is an owner who's online and monitors the DML cut my 
keys for me. If you look him up in the archives he can give you more 
detailed information and probably cut keys for you.

Hope this helps,

Rich A.
#5335

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "heylacy" <heylacy_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi, im looking at a 81 sat. owner has no ign. key. he had one made 
> from the compartment door and it opens doors and glove box but not 
> ign. is there an easy way to pull ign lock to replace without 
damage 
> to steering colume? what key-lock will fit this car? thanks , lacy








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Message: 25
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 15:05:55 -0000
From: "gullwingmagazine" <gullwingmagazine_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: Re: deloreans magazine



Thumbs up on the magazine and the interior!  The new interior will 
definately bring the D into the new millineum.

Will the interior be available in Yellow??!

Ron 
Gullwing Magazine


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "James" <james_at_dml_u...> wrote:
> 
> 
> The latest issue was mailed late last week and should have hit all 
the
> US mailboxes by now. International subscribers should see it 
sometime
> next week. This is the issue that covers the new interior of the 
show
> car with all the "in progress" pictures. I'd welcome comments from
> anyone who wishes to email or post about it.
> 
> James








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


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