From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2334
Date: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 7:52 PM


There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. RE: Stuttering clutch
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

2. Re: Re: 17000 Vins
From: Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com>

3. Re: Stuttering clutch
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

4. Cave Paintings (stuff under headliners, inside body panels)
From: "James" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

5. Re: Concours
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>

6. RE: New England Club?
From: "Jason Sisto" <wizard_at_dml_tdgllc.com>

7. Door pull strap introduction and other VIN stuff
From: "James" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>

8. Polished number plate surround
From: "jamesrguk" <James_rg_at_dml_hotmail.com>

9. Re: Cave Paintings (stuff under headliners, inside body panels)
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>

10. Re: Cave Paintings (stuff under headliners, inside body panels)
From: "Steve" <steve_at_dml_fotofx.net>

11. Re: Cave Paintings (stuff under headliners, inside body panels)
From: DMCVIN6683 <dmcvin6683_at_dml_wi.rr.com>

12. RE: Re: Stuttering clutch
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>

13. Re: Fuel Filter question
From: "Mike Polzin" <MPolzin_at_dml_sen.com>

14. Re: Judging at DeLo Shows
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

15. Concours 2000
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

16. Re: Stuttering clutch
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

17. RE: Polished number plate surround
From: "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>

18. Re: Fuel Filter question
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

19. Re: Concours Read this final solution (dunking booth)
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

20. RE: Door pull strap introduction and other VIN stuff
From: "Jack Singer" <jsinger_at_dml_i-c.net>

21. Re: Concours
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

22. Re: 17000 Vins
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

23. RE: Cave Paintings (stuff under headliners, inside body panels)
From: "Jeff Chabotte" <jchabotte_at_dml_adelphia.net>

24. Re: 17000 Vins
From: "Bruce Benson" <delornut_at_dml_peoplepc.com>

25. Happy Thanksgiving-And I Know What I'm Thankful For!
From: "Michael & Denise" <luckeys71_at_dml_cox.net>





Message: 1
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:52:27 -0600
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Stuttering clutch


Travis, My thought would be the pilot bearing.
John Hervey


-----Original Message-----
From: Travis Goodwin [mailto:tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 10:12 AM
To: 'dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [DML] Stuttering clutch





I've got a problem with my clutch.

When I shift into gear and release the clutch, I get a hard vibration that
shakes the car. If I shift and let the RPMs wind down and then release, it's
ok. It also works ok if I give it extra RPMs and release very slowly.

You think my clutch fork is bent or maybe I have a hard spot on the clutch
disk? Any thoughts?





To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at
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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 2
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 10:09:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: 17000 Vins


So that you can read my comments in proper context,
I'll first admit that I am not a concours fan.

A few years ago Ralph Lauren won the Pebble Beach
concours with his Bugatti entry.  I don't remember
what % of the car was "new - made from scratch" (it
was VERY significant), but the cost of getting that
car to "concours" shape was $3,000,000!!!!

Now, one could, theoretically, do the same thing with
a DeLorean.  Would that increase the value of the rest
of the DeLoreans?  I think not.

Finally, I do think that any reference to the 17000
series as "parts cars" is grossly inconsiderate to the
owners of those cars.

Just my 2 - - wish is was in Euro's!

Dick Ryan
VIN 16867 (not quite a 17000)


		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do?
http://my.yahoo.com 





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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 3
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:03:28 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Stuttering clutch



It really doesn't matter exactly what is wrong inside. The only way
you are going to fix it is to take it apart and that means removing
the transmission. Once you have it out the cause will be very
apparant. Of course I am assuming you are shifting correctly. You can
cause a vibration if you are shifting too early into too high a gear.
Before tearing the clutch out try varying your shift technique. Stay
in your gears a little longer before shifting, Maybe that will help.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_v...> wrote:
> 
> 
> I've got a problem with my clutch.
> 
> When I shift into gear and release the clutch, I get a hard
vibration that
> shakes the car. If I shift and let the RPMs wind down and then
release, it's
> ok. It also works ok if I give it extra RPMs and release very slowly.
> 
> You think my clutch fork is bent or maybe I have a hard spot on the
clutch
> disk? Any thoughts?








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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:31:31 -0000
From: "James" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: Cave Paintings (stuff under headliners, inside body panels)



If someone were to start a website where people could submit pictures
of these, I'd submit what we have here and whatever else I find on
cars that come in. In addition to the picture, I think it would useful
to also collect at least the last 5 digits of the VIN that the photos
came from, along with perhaps the build date from the door VIN plate.

Anyone up for this?

James








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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:41:13 -0000
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Re: Concours



Although new to "extreme carshow judging", I don't understand why a 
Concours contest would offend anyone or cause any kind of controversy 
by its mere existance.

I thought all marques had Concours competitions? Why should DeLoreans 
be any different?

I can maybe understand some controversy over rules and judging 
criteria as conflicts in production data occur, but surely we can 
work these out by contacting factory workers, Kapac employees and 
design engineers and coming to a consensus?

I do understand the frustration an owner might feel after losing by a 
1/4 point after pouring heart, soul and cash into a car. Feelings may 
be hurt, improprieties might be inadvertently perceived.

As far as only have 2 cars at PF for the competition, what do you 
expect in a community of less than 8,000 existing specimens where 
owners are often de-marque-ing the car with Northstar V-8's and 
Wankel rotary engines? These aren't Corvettes or Mustangs. The fewer 
specimens exist, the more fierce the competition will be between them.

As a new assistant judge at PF, I was beholden to no one and didn't 
have to worry about limiting my comments or ostracizing myself. I 
felt the judging was fair and unbiased. Both cars were just 
incredible and I was cheering for both of them (mentally of course).

I think the competition serves a purpose and should be preserved. If 
you can't handle losing, don't compete. Just because you disagree 
with the purpose or existance of the competition doesn't make it 
necessary to discourage the rest of the community from being involved 
in it. Especially if you are truly unconcerned with the opinion of 
a "self-appointed body".
--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
> 
> --- "Montgomery, Ken" <kenm_at_dml_c...> wrote:
>  
> >      What I said (only to you) Marc, was that 'the
> > 83's might not
> > actually be 'real' DeLoreans because they were built
> > by the holding
> > company from the left over parts'. And why did I say
> > that? Because you
> > were being rude and I knew it would upset you. You
> > were openly
> > belittling the Concours to everyone and I want to
> > see steam come out
> > your ears. I don't actually believe the 83's are any
> > less of a DeLorean
> > than the 81's and 82's.
> 
> It did not upset me, but it did upset others.  All of
> my DeLoreans are 1981 model, and the pleasure I get
> from them is unaffected by what any self-appointed
> authority thinks of it.
> 
> The topic of DeLorean judging is one that will likely
> never make steam come out of my ears.
> 
> > The Concours is of extreme importance to many of the
> > owners and I had
> > worked hard to make sure that the judging manual was
> > updated and that
> > the judging would go smoothly. I didn't at all like
> > to hear my work and
> > that of my very dedicated crew was being scorned so
> > loudly. I think that
> > was very insensitive of YOU.
> 
> If you put yourself in such a visible role, you should
> be prepared for criticism.
> 
> I do publicly apologize to you Ken.  It did not occur
> to me that my anti-concours discussions would be taken
> personally by anyone involved.  Maybe I need to
> include a disclaimer in all of my potentially
> controversial discussions that I intend no personal
> malice.  Who am I kidding, everything I say is
> controversial!
> 
> (Yes Ken K, I am getting an early start for the
> dunking booth in 2006.  Maybe we can cover the entire
> cost of 2008 with the profits?  LOL)
> 
> <SNIP>
> > 
> > Ken
> > (owner of an 82 'Kapac' car)
> 
> Are 82's "Kapac" too??  I thought just the 83's?
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com








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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:02:01 -0500
From: "Jason Sisto" <wizard_at_dml_tdgllc.com>
Subject: RE: New England Club?


Well, if we get enough people together I would be willing to help coordinate a get together with other Delorean owners.  I will try to keep a running list of New Englander's e-mails.

	-----Original Message----- 
	From: Tony Patti [mailto:ajpatti_at_dml_comcast.net] 
	Sent: Wed 11/24/2004 7:54 AM 
	To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com 
	Cc: 
	Subject: Re: [DML] New England Club?
	
	



	I live in New Hampshire and would be glad to join a New England club.
	
	Tony Patti
	----- Original Message -----
	From: "Jason Sisto" <wizard_at_dml_tdgllc.com>
	To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
	Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 10:19 PM
	Subject: RE: [DML] New England Club?
	
	
	>
	> I work in Prov. and live in MA. I am also willing to start getting
	together with other Delorean owners.  My brother manages a motel in
	Westerly, RI, on the beach, next to the CT border & Foxwoods and if we get
	enough DeLorean owners together, I am willing to host a get together next
	summer.  I own three Deloreans and my cousin has one.  I also have another
	friend who owns one as well.  The more owners the better!!   Let me know if
	anyone is interested.
	>
	> JS
	>
	> -----Original Message-----
	> From: Jeff Chabotte [mailto:jchabotte_at_dml_adelphia.net]
	> Sent: Wed 11/17/2004 4:25 PM
	> To: Jason Sisto
	> Cc:
	> Subject: RE: [DML] New England Club?
	>
	>
	>
	> > I'm from CT, No Delorean yet, just an enthusiast waiting for a good
	> > time.
	>
	> > -Jeff Chabotte
	> > Norwich, CT
	> > http://www.88-mph.com
	>
	> [duplicate quote removed by moderator]
	>
	> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
	> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
	>
	> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see
	www.dmcnews.com
	>
	> To search the archives or view files, log in at
	http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
	> Yahoo! Groups Links
	>
	>
	>
	>
	>
	>
	>
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
	moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
	
	For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com
	
	To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
	Yahoo! Groups Links
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:27:46 -0000
From: "James" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: Door pull strap introduction and other VIN stuff



These "late model" pull straps were actually introduced (according the
parts manual) at VIN 5993 - so theoretically, Bill's car shouldn't
have them, but Robert's car (6585) should. It wouldn't surprise me if
there was either a transposition of numbers someplace and the VIN
intro was 5939. I've also read of "trials" at the factory where they
would try out a new part/process on a range of cars in production just
to see how it would work.

Perhaps a thousand or more cars were left sitting at the port in
Belfast or the factory between January 1982 and 1983. The last
shipment to come from the factory while DMC was still in business
under JZD was in January of 1982.

I'm told by Leif Montin, who went there after Consolidated "took over"
that the 1982 models still at the factory were re-VIN'd as 1983
models, by adding 5000 to the VIN already on the car. Hence, VIN 15915
has 10915 written under the headliner, as 10915 was one that didn't
make that last boat out under JZD's watch.

All of the 16XXX VIN's and 17XXX VIN;s that I have seen will have
11XXX adn 12XXX numbers under them.

The 20XXX VIN's are much harder find and pin down. We have a few doors
here that have 20XXX VIN's on them. In most all cases, they are
completely assembled doors that were not installed on cars for one
reason or another. Some of them have VIN's higher than the last known
SS car (20104) and some have lower VIN's. My theory is that the higher
VIN doors were for cars that were planned but for some reason never
built. The doors with lower VIN's that 20104 were rejected for quality
reasons and replaced with other doors at the factory. These are the
ones that I know we have here and what we know about those cars per
the DeLorean Production Chronology (DPC):

10765 - in Netherlands
11204 - unknown
11267 - 16267 in Portland, OR
20093 - unknown
20104 - unknown - last car per SSI
20115 - unbuilt?
20116 - unbuilt?
20117 - unbuilt?

I've been interested in the VIN's since I bought my first car. The DOD
and DPC were created by me to help fill in the holes in the factory
production records.

James Espey
http://www.delorean.com

> > I'm pretty sure my car spent time into 1982 sitting unfinished
> > somewhere in Dunmurry because it has late model pull straps built 
> into
> > the door panels. There's no reason to believe a PO replaced them.
> > 
> > Bill Robertson
> > #5939 (Oct 81)
> 
> You, and me both. Build date shows Nov. 81, but wasn't first sold 
> until June 20th, 1982. I have the same door straps, console clock, 
> and Craig radio.
> 
> A nice little thing that I ran across was when I called the 
> California DMV last Friday. It appears that they have records for my 
> car in their system, that date back 10 years. And, they can provide 
> microfiche copies of other records as well. Turns out that my car has 
> twice been registered to two seperate corporations.
> 
> -Robert
> vin 6585 "X"








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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 19:09:29 -0000
From: "jamesrguk" <James_rg_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Polished number plate surround



Hi all,

Some of you may have seen my posting a while back about these...


Today I collected the final product from the foundry and all I can 
say is WOW.


Take a look in the photos section under "bezel_polished" and enjoy

All comments welcome.


James








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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 20:45:15 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>
Subject: Re: Cave Paintings (stuff under headliners, inside body panels)


I just set it up on www.dmcnews.com. The first piece of art is 
already there. Send your Cave Art to webowner(at)dmcnews.com. Link is 
off the main dmcnews.com website. 

Dave S

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "James" <james_at_dml_u...> wrote:
> 
> 
> If someone were to start a website where people could submit 
pictures
> of these, I'd submit what we have here and whatever else I find on
> cars that come in. In addition to the picture, I think it would 
useful
> to also collect at least the last 5 digits of the VIN that the 
photos
> came from, along with perhaps the build date from the door VIN 
plate.
> 
> Anyone up for this?
> 
> James








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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 15:01:22 -0500
From: "Steve" <steve_at_dml_fotofx.net>
Subject: Re: Cave Paintings (stuff under headliners, inside body panels)


James, I may be up for this. I have plenty of server space. If you have time
contact me off list and I will see how quickly I can get it going.


Steve


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James" <james_at_dml_usadmc.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 1:31 PM
Subject: [DML] Cave Paintings (stuff under headliners, inside body panels)


>
>
>
> If someone were to start a website where people could submit pictures
> of these, I'd submit what we have here and whatever else I find on
> cars that come in. In addition to the picture, I think it would useful
> to also collect at least the last 5 digits of the VIN that the photos
> came from, along with perhaps the build date from the door VIN plate.
>
> Anyone up for this?
>
> James
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see
www.dmcnews.com
>
> To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>






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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:00:13 -0600
From: DMCVIN6683 <dmcvin6683_at_dml_wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Cave Paintings (stuff under headliners, inside body panels)


This would be a good excuse for me to pull of my headliner to take a 
picture. If i had the know how i would set up a website but i dont so i 
will gladly send in a picture if and when somebody says "I will set up 
the site".

I hope somebody does this soon, it will help keep me busy this winter 
staring at the computer.

Mark V




On Wednesday, November 24, 2004, at 12:31  PM, James wrote:

>
>
>
> If someone were to start a website where people could submit pictures
> of these, I'd submit what we have here and whatever else I find on
> cars that come in. In addition to the picture, I think it would useful
> to also collect at least the last 5 digits of the VIN that the photos
> came from, along with perhaps the build date from the door VIN plate.
>
> Anyone up for this?
>
> James
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see 
> www.dmcnews.com
>
> To search the archives or view files, log in at 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>






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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:58:44 -0500
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Stuttering clutch


I can drive the car almost all the time without the stuttering clutch, but
it takes a bit of timing and skill. So much skill, in fact, that it has to
be a problem with the car. This chattering began only in 2nd and seems to
have affected all gears.


-----Original Message-----
From: David Teitelbaum [mailto:jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 1:03 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: Stuttering clutch




It really doesn't matter exactly what is wrong inside. The only way
you are going to fix it is to take it apart and that means removing
the transmission. Once you have it out the cause will be very
apparant. Of course I am assuming you are shifting correctly. You can
cause a vibration if you are shifting too early into too high a gear.
Before tearing the clutch out try varying your shift technique. Stay
in your gears a little longer before shifting, Maybe that will help.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_v...> wrote:
> 
> 
> I've got a problem with my clutch.
> 
> When I shift into gear and release the clutch, I get a hard
vibration that
> shakes the car. If I shift and let the RPMs wind down and then
release, it's
> ok. It also works ok if I give it extra RPMs and release very slowly.
> 
> You think my clutch fork is bent or maybe I have a hard spot on the
clutch
> disk? Any thoughts?








To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
Yahoo! Groups Links



 







________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 13
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:07:19 -0600
From: "Mike Polzin" <MPolzin_at_dml_sen.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Filter question


Japeth,
There is no easy way to get to it, just jack up the drivers side rear of the
car and you will see it up underneath there. You don't need to wait until
you are out of gas, a little bit will leak out but just have a pail or bowl
ready to catch it so it doesn't get all over your floor. The fuel pump is
going to be running so all that will leak out is what is in the line. Also
be sure you don't have your face underneath it so you drink it, or worse yet
get it in your eyes. As always it is a good idea to wear safety glasses when
working under a car.

It is a relatively easy job to do, I also might recommend that you use a
little bit of plumbers tape on the threads when putting the new one on so
there are no leaks. Good luck!

Mike Polzin

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "secret_jedi_guy" <secret_jedi_guy_at_dml_yahoo.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 11:56 AM
Subject: [DML] Fuel Filter question


>
>
>
> I need to change my fuel filter and I was wondering if there is an
> easy way to get to it, how do i go about changing it, and should I
> wait until i'm out of gas to do it?
>
> Japheth VIN: 1223






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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 20:10:57 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Judging at DeLo Shows



I am aggitating for *BOTH* judged and non-judged display at future
DCS's, with equitable concern for both classes of owners. For example,
even if #5335 isn't ready for the rigors of competition at this point
of its restoration, wouldn't you want to be included in the show in
some other capacity rather than relegated to parking with the general
public?

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> 
> I think the competition serves a purpose and should be preserved. If 
> you can't handle losing, don't compete. Just because you disagree 
> with the purpose or existance of the competition doesn't make it 
> necessary to discourage the rest of the community from being involved 
> in it. Especially if you are truly unconcerned with the opinion of 
> a "self-appointed body".









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Message: 15
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 12:24:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Concours 2000



--- James <james_at_dml_usadmc.com> wrote:

<SNIP>

> I don't recall telling him that, but what I *would*
> tell him today,
> and think more likely that I would have told him
> then was that if he
> wanted to NOT lose the 2 points for the exhaust, it
> needed to be changed. 

Even today, after we have yet to find any 17000 vin
cars with a 1982 style muffler on it, You want to sell
a $500 muffler to someone who does not need one? I
think this proves my point.
 
<SNIP>

> 5.75 points separated the top three finishers in the
> 2000 event, so it
> shows that details matter. Questioning the outcome
> impugns the
> credibility of the judges (Mike Substelny, Knut
> Grimsrud, Bill
> Swilley, Ken Montgomery, Patti Substelny and Marty
> Maier) and deserves
> an apology. 

Please don't put words in my mouth.  I have to face
these people at the next show.  This is a nasty debate
tactic and frankly YOU owe all of those people, and me
an apology.

At no point did I question the credibility of the
judges.  They did their job, and judged the cars using
a manual which DMCH provided based on self appointed
authority.

It is the manual that I have always found fault with. 
I clearly remember you (James) and Stephen having
final decision on any items that were unclear in the
book.  The wiper blades on Tom's car for example,
where Stephen ruled in Tom's favor.

<SNIP>

I'd like to thank all of the private support I have
been receiving on this topic.  But want to publicly
complain that I have to again be the "lightning rod"
on a issue that people are afraid to challenge the
status quo on.  You can all speak your opinions
publicly, quick while we still have the first
amendment in place.

Meanwhile, we have been talking about the tail pipes
on 17000 vin cars for a while now.  Clearly, they have
1981 style mufflers on them (for whatever reason). 
Will the manual be updated before the next event? 
Does it matter?  Out of estimated 120 fine examples of
DeLoreans in Pigeon Forge, only 2 participated in the
Concours event.  IMHO, that is representation of the
failure of DeLorean concours competition.
 




		
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Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. 
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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 20:27:21 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Stuttering clutch



You can watch the throwout bearing and pressure plate fingers in
action through unused clutch fork openings in either side of the
bellhousing. Costs nothing to at least look. Do it with the engine
running (car on jack stands rather than ramps). Unfortunately you
can't see what the input shaft itself is doing (you'll be looking at a
hollow tube that surrounds it).

I've had bad U joints feel deceptively like clutch chatter -- wonder
if CV joints could do the same?

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_v...> wrote:
> 
> 
> I've got a problem with my clutch.
> 
> When I shift into gear and release the clutch, I get a hard
vibration that
> shakes the car. If I shift and let the RPMs wind down and then
release, it's
> ok. It also works ok if I give it extra RPMs and release very slowly.
> 
> You think my clutch fork is bent or maybe I have a hard spot on the
clutch
> disk? Any thoughts?








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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:47:44 -0600
From: "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Polished number plate surround


Dude, that is one bad mutha-f-er!!!!

How much did that set you back?
...and how much for me to get one?
- Videobob

- PS: Are you going to add a "grain" to it to make it look stainless?

>From: "jamesrguk" <James_rg_at_dml_hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [DML] Polished number plate surround
>Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 19:09:29 -0000
>
>
>
>
>Hi all,
>
>Some of you may have seen my posting a while back about these...
>
>
>Today I collected the final product from the foundry and all I can
>say is WOW.
>
>
>Take a look in the photos section under "bezel_polished" and enjoy
>
>All comments welcome.
>
>
>James





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Message: 18
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 21:06:22 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Filter question



Why do you "need" to change your fuel filter? In any case to do it
obviously you have to get a replacement first. You have to lift the
car and it is a little easier if you remove the left rear wheel but it
isn't required. You will need some metric wrenches, shop towels, and a
small container. Wear eye protection. Do it about 15-30 min after
running the motor so the pressure will have dropped. You will get fuel
out no matter what the level in the tank, that is just what is in the
lines and filter itself. It will stop quickly but you should catch as
much as you can in a cup. Be careful not to bend or kink the "hard"
line that goes to the filter from the front. If you do you will have
to lift the body to replace it. You should use new copper sealing
rings and make sure that there are NO LEAKS when you are done. Run the
motor for a little while as you watch the connections. Take the filter
out with the bracket and switch the bracket onto the new filter, it is
easier that way.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757 


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "secret_jedi_guy"
<secret_jedi_guy_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
> 
> I need to change my fuel filter and I was wondering if there is an 
> easy way to get to it, how do i go about changing it, and should I 
> wait until i'm out of gas to do it?
> 
> Japheth VIN: 1223








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Message: 19
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 15:39:05 -0500
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Concours Read this final solution (dunking booth)


OK
Its official 
I am getting a dunking booth for Marc.

I am one who favors the concours and I think that the manual is getting better every year and is much better than other marquis in a lot of ways.

Back to the dunking booth

Maybe we can add a few other people as well since I am sure Marc will be waterlogged after a bit and will need time to recover LOL
Ken M and Marc can have a dunking contest and see who raises the most money for the show

We can add a few others that I think would work and who knows we may make enought to pay for the show

Here is my wish list for the dunking booth and it is not based on controversy 
It is based on personalities in the DeLorean Community
and comments made on this list. 

If half of these poeple agree for the dunk I will rent the booth 
If now I will rent it anyway just for Marc and Ken 

Marc
Ken M
VideoBob
Walt
Dan D (NJ)
ME
Angela
James E
Rob G
Stephen W
Don S
John H
Basically all of the vendors
Dave S
Rich W
Basically all the monitors I only named 2
Kathryn D
Claudia Wells

Anyone else I should add and why.
I think this covers all sides of all issues
LOL

remember its for fun 
its a hobby 
and its a living for some

Ken






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Message: 20
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 17:50:42 -0500
From: "Jack Singer" <jsinger_at_dml_i-c.net>
Subject: RE: Door pull strap introduction and other VIN stuff


James,

I have 20069 in storage, it is a new never registered car with 400 miles
on it.  I will check the doors to see what they say for you.

Regards,

Jack Singer
20069, 10002


-----Original Message-----
From: James [mailto:james_at_dml_usadmc.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 1:28 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Door pull strap introduction and other VIN stuff




These "late model" pull straps were actually introduced (according the
parts manual) at VIN 5993 - so theoretically, Bill's car shouldn't
have them, but Robert's car (6585) should. It wouldn't surprise me if
there was either a transposition of numbers someplace and the VIN
intro was 5939. I've also read of "trials" at the factory where they
would try out a new part/process on a range of cars in production just
to see how it would work.

Perhaps a thousand or more cars were left sitting at the port in
Belfast or the factory between January 1982 and 1983. The last
shipment to come from the factory while DMC was still in business
under JZD was in January of 1982.

I'm told by Leif Montin, who went there after Consolidated "took over"
that the 1982 models still at the factory were re-VIN'd as 1983
models, by adding 5000 to the VIN already on the car. Hence, VIN 15915
has 10915 written under the headliner, as 10915 was one that didn't
make that last boat out under JZD's watch.

All of the 16XXX VIN's and 17XXX VIN;s that I have seen will have
11XXX adn 12XXX numbers under them.

The 20XXX VIN's are much harder find and pin down. We have a few doors
here that have 20XXX VIN's on them. In most all cases, they are
completely assembled doors that were not installed on cars for one
reason or another. Some of them have VIN's higher than the last known
SS car (20104) and some have lower VIN's. My theory is that the higher
VIN doors were for cars that were planned but for some reason never
built. The doors with lower VIN's that 20104 were rejected for quality
reasons and replaced with other doors at the factory. These are the
ones that I know we have here and what we know about those cars per
the DeLorean Production Chronology (DPC):

10765 - in Netherlands
11204 - unknown
11267 - 16267 in Portland, OR
20093 - unknown
20104 - unknown - last car per SSI
20115 - unbuilt?
20116 - unbuilt?
20117 - unbuilt?

I've been interested in the VIN's since I bought my first car. The DOD
and DPC were created by me to help fill in the holes in the factory
production records.

James Espey
http://www.delorean.com

> > I'm pretty sure my car spent time into 1982 sitting unfinished
> > somewhere in Dunmurry because it has late model pull straps built 
> into
> > the door panels. There's no reason to believe a PO replaced them.
> > 
> > Bill Robertson
> > #5939 (Oct 81)
> 
> You, and me both. Build date shows Nov. 81, but wasn't first sold 
> until June 20th, 1982. I have the same door straps, console clock, 
> and Craig radio.
> 
> A nice little thing that I ran across was when I called the 
> California DMV last Friday. It appears that they have records for my 
> car in their system, that date back 10 years. And, they can provide 
> microfiche copies of other records as well. Turns out that my car has 
> twice been registered to two seperate corporations.
> 
> -Robert
> vin 6585 "X"








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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 21
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:46:14 -0500
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Concours


There would have been four cars there in PF if the 170 mile car that was ready was brought. That car is now in England.
 
I also have my car but showing my car at my show is kinda bad taste in my opinion.

I will be in Houston

Ken







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Message: 22
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 21:16:56 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: 17000 Vins



What you spend on a car to win a concours bears no relation to the
absolute value of the car. It is possible to spend $3,000,000 on a car
and the car is "only" worth $2,000,000 at auction. BTW I am just
guessing but the $3,000,000 probably didn't include purchesing,
shipping, etc. In the Stratospheric World of Pebble Beach you can't
put a price on ego. The point is you can always spend more money on a
car then it could ever be worth. Most people would pull out their
reciepts from the mechanic and agree. It is just that this is
magnified and exaggerated in the world of Concours Judging. Concours
is certainly not for everyone but for the ones that want to compete it
offers everyone else a peek at the "best of the best"!
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
> So that you can read my comments in proper context,
> I'll first admit that I am not a concours fan.
> 
> A few years ago Ralph Lauren won the Pebble Beach
> concours with his Bugatti entry.  I don't remember
> what % of the car was "new - made from scratch" (it
> was VERY significant), but the cost of getting that
> car to "concours" shape was $3,000,000!!!!
> 









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Message: 23
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 17:12:28 -0500
From: "Jeff Chabotte" <jchabotte_at_dml_adelphia.net>
Subject: RE: Cave Paintings (stuff under headliners, inside body panels)


James and group,

I'd been toying with the idea of starting a Delorean photo archive on
the net for a while now. Owning my own server does have it's advantages.
All anybody would need to do is to sign up, login, and submit the pics
and the information. If anybody wants to collaborate on this, I'd
appreciate the help!

-Jeff Chabotte
Norwich, CT
http://www.88-mph.com (that won't be the site, btw..)

-----Original Message-----
From: James [mailto:james_at_dml_usadmc.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 1:32 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Cave Paintings (stuff under headliners, inside body
panels)





If someone were to start a website where people could submit pictures of
these, I'd submit what we have here and whatever else I find on cars
that come in. In addition to the picture, I think it would useful to
also collect at least the last 5 digits of the VIN that the photos came
from, along with perhaps the build date from the door VIN plate.

Anyone up for this?

James








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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 24
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:00:32 -0600
From: "Bruce Benson" <delornut_at_dml_peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: 17000 Vins


I'm really curious about the 'glued' on VIN plates. In all the years I was
with Ford VIN plate pop rivets were of a unique color, shape and size. They
were, until a couple of years ago, kept under lock and key and unavailable
for the public to purchase. This was done ( however futile an attempt as it
was ) to make swapping VIN plates difficult. How a manufacturer in 1982 got
away with gluing them on is a question that would be interesting to have
answered.

Bruce Benson



> After some discussion with Tom he thinks that the
> 17000 cars may have been built earlier than they were
> tagged.  After the cars sat, they were re tagged to be
> sold as newer cars (1983).  To back this up, it has
> been noted that the dashboard VIN tag is glued, and
> not riveted as it is in all of the earlier cars.






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Message: 25
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 19:54:16 -0500
From: "Michael & Denise" <luckeys71_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: Happy Thanksgiving-And I Know What I'm Thankful For!


I wanted to extend a holiday greeting to all of the subscribers to the list and express my sincere gratitude to Josh Haldeman for his efforts in assisting me with my DeLorean.  Josh not only engineered the replacement of the frame for my car but he also went and picked it up after I purchased it on eBay and virtually single-handedly saved this vehicle from the parts pile.  I drove it back to Virginia from Cincinnati 2 weeks ago and it truly is like having a new car.  I hope I can someday make a difference with a car like Josh has with mine but I don't know if I'll ever achieve that level of expertise!  I hope everyone has a safe and enjoyable Thanksgiving and I know that Josh will be at the top of my list of people whom I am thankful to have met!
Mike
(no longer with a rusted out frame thanks to Josh!)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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