From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2347
Date: Friday, December 03, 2004 1:18 AM


There are 8 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Upgrading the Air Filter
From: wingd2_at_dml_aol.com

2. Re: DeLorean Security
From: "R / R" <chach4_at_dml_aol.com>

3. Re: red brake fluid
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>

4. Re: just stuff
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

5. Re: Upgrading the Air Filter?
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>

6. Re: DeLo's In Year 'Round Use
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>

7. RE: Upgrading the Air Filter?
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

8. fascias for sale...
From: Josh Haldeman <jhaldeman_at_dml_fuse.net>





Message: 1
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 20:28:50 EST
From: wingd2_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Upgrading the Air Filter


Mike,

  I agree with you on this. The only real way to verify claims of power 
increases is thru actual testing. Like David T was saying, these engines were 
developed with all the parts working as a "package" and just changeing/modifing one 
part of this package does not necessarily equal performance gains. When Casey 
first came out with his new air filter housing I liked the design, but 
questioned the actual gains that were claimed. We've done actual dyno testing (Bob 
Brandies has the charts) of the stock Delorean air filter housing and different 
filter combinations available for the car and, believe it or not, the stock 
Delorean air filter housing is designed and works very well with this engine. 
With air flow in to and out of an engine, as long as you are not restricting 
the required amount of air an engine needs, larger is not always better. 
Maintaining or increasing air velocity is a major factor in performance. That's why 
intakes use long runners and headers are made out of specific smaller diameters 
and lengths of tubing, so they can maintain the velocity of the air moving 
thru them. If you make things to big, you kill all the air flow thru it. Thru 
dyno and flow bench testing it was found the stock D air filter housing flows 
air very well, and the design, by becoming smaller at the intake connection, 
actually directs and increases the velocity of the air flowing into the engine 
and the intake system. Matter of fact the engines performance actually drops off 
when the air filter housing was removed completely, which also shows the 
stock filter housing is not restricting the amount of air the engine requires or 
can use. The design of Casey's air housing actually gets bigger at the 
connection point to the intake system, which actually slows the air velocity into the 
engine. I did some flow bench testing of one of these housings and 
unfortunately found no performance gains to be had. I do think it's a very good looking 
air filter housing, but like others were saying, if you're going to get it, get 
it for its style.

  Marty  


   From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net
Subject: RE: Upgrading the Air Filter?


I am always skeptical of these claims because they are never done
with any kind of rigor.  I'm willing to bet that most every DeLorean
can benefit from a tuneup - with OEM parts or aftermarket.  Seat
of the pants evaluations are useless.  I would be willing to believe
claims if there are documented dyno runs before and after every 
change, measured against new parts to the original design spec as a 
baseline.  Anything else is marketing.

Ever notice how those stupid tornado intake infomercials ALWAYS
do a tuneup and filter change on the car with the installation of the part?  

--
Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 20:00:24 -0600
From: "R / R" <chach4_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: DeLorean Security


Yes, very similar...parking on a side street by a church ( didn't help ) 
   they broke the passenger small window and took the original Craig 
Radio and left the speakers. Not a loss as far as the radio but what a 
mess to clean up. Luckily no other interior or ss damage.

Rick Vin 15990

Robert Moseley wrote on 12/2/2004, 11:50 AM:

 >
 >
 >
 > I am curious and would like to pose this question to the members.
 >
 > Q: Has youare car ever been broken into or stolen?
 > Q: Was the motive theft or vandalism?
 >
 > Now, I am not looking for vandal stories because we all know
 > about those... what I want to know is if anyone has actually
 > broken into the car for the purpose of maybe stealing the radio
 > or other contents or perhaps the car itself.
 > How did they do it?
 > Did they break the small window, the large part of the window?
 > Pick the lock?
 > Pry the door?
 >
 > I would like to see what security measures are best for the car.
 >
 > Your stories are anticipated.
 >
 > - Videobob
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
 > moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
 >
 > For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see
 > www.dmcnews.com
 >
 > To search the archives or view files, log in at
 > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
 > Yahoo! Groups Links
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >







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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2004 02:18:57 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>
Subject: Re: red brake fluid



This is pretty amazing. I had never noted the shop manual mentioning 
the red fluid, I suppose I never expected to run across a 25-year-old 
car with original fluid still in it. Now the strange part. 

I'm in the process of restoring #2466, a car which, although it has 
25000 miles on it, has only had about 4000 of that since 1985. It's a 
very original car, including all the struts, fan fail etc. One of the 
major issues with the car is the brakes. At the time I got it home, 
only one of the four brakes was functional. The master cylinder had 
started to leak but did not show signs of big leaks. Further 
inspection showed that 2 of the 4 flexible lines are plugged with 
what appeared to be crystalized brake fluid. The fluid that came out 
was  - reddish. I had never seen this before, usually old fluid is 
closer to dark brown or black. I just chalked it up as rust at the 
time, but the color is not really right for that, and the calipers 
were not really rusty inside (just goopy). Now I'm guessing that this 
was evidence of original red fluid that had not been subjected to a 
lot of moisture over the years (car was stored indoors all that 
time). 

ATE does make brake fluids in different colors (blue and gold), aimed 
primarily at racers who alternate color at each flush so they can 
tell when it's through the system. 

Dave S


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "mopardmc12" <doug_at_dml_z...> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> My first, tentative post to the list.  Owned my car for about 16
> months now, absolutely love it.
> 
> My question is about brake fluid.  Mine is reddish in color, which I
> noticed when bleeding it after installing new rotors and pads.  It's
> also somewhat "cloudy" looking in the reservior.
> 
> The shop manual says, if I remember right, that on initial bleeding
> the fluid may look red as this was done at the factory for test 
purposes.
> 
> Could this mean my brake fluid is 22 years old!? 








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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2004 02:19:27 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: just stuff



Can't let disparaging comment Re: AMC 360 go unchallenged (especially
amidst so much wailing and gnashing of teeth on the List Re: PRV)...

1974 low compression (8.5:1) trim in a Javelin:
285 net HP _at_dml_ 4800 RPM
390 max ft lbs torque _at_dml_ 3200 RPM)
0-60 mph: 7.8 seconds (3800 lbs curb weight)
1/4 mile: 14.8 seconds _at_dml_ 95 mph

Very respectable numbers IMHO...

1974 was the only year for AMC power in the Bricklin (you do realize
that Bricklin predates DeLo, and thus could hardly be considered a
"copy").

Bricklin utilized Ford's ancient FMX transmission in lieu of better
contemporary C series. Replacement Windsor engine was also on its way
out in lieu of Cleveland series. Ford apparently sold Bricklin
whatever it no longer needed for its own purposes. 

A little bit of AMC trivia for you: external dimensions of all 2nd
generation AMC V8's are identical. You could effortlessly drop a 390
or 401 into your Bricklin.

A little bit of Bricklin trivia for you: differential and drive axles
are AMC, even after production converted to Windsor 351.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "nitrousgarageworks"
<nitrousgarageworks_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   Greetings DMC Dudes. Just throwing in my 2 cents, to keep the 
> conversations, and arguements going here (heh-heh):
>   I'm kinda skeptical about the new K & N airfilter assembly, 
> the "top hat" as I call it. I'm concerned that water may splash into 
> the engine compartment, and onto the top of the filter, and since the 
> top of the filter is a filter in itself, get sucked into the engine. 
> I'd opt for the standard K & N airfilter, and keep some kind of 
> protection over the top of it. Plus I found you don't have to oil the 
> filter, I use mine dry, and just rinse it in gas, and blow it out 
> regularly. I also lube the rubber seals on it, top and bottom with a 
> thin coating of synthetic grease to ensure a solid seal. Synthetic 
> though, not petoleum based, as it will eat at the seals.
>   Another idea I found was using Amsoil products; They're rather 
> pricey, but of supreme quality, aircraft grade, that allows for 
> extended drain intervals, superior protection, and so on. I opted for 
> the 5W30 grade, as I found an article in a hotrod magazine, about 
> that grade yielding the best increase in horse power. Not alot, but 
> HP is HP baby!
>   I did a little research on the Brickin car too; What a piece of 
> crap! A kit car, with a look that tries to copy the DMC cheaply. Plus 
> it's AMC powered, and that says enough bad right there. Not even a 
> contender for further investigation on my part to be sure.
>   I also found another nifty product that works: RedLine Racing 
> Products makes a product called Water-Wetter, which reduces the drag 
> coefficient on radiator coolant, and allows it to flow faster, pick 
> up and disperse heat faster. It's about 10 a bottle, and the 
> immediate effect I can witness to is: It drops the car's radiator 
> temp. by about 20 degrees. And we all know that heat is a car's worst 
> enemy, and cause of most wear. 
>   Well time for me to shut up, and sit back. That's all I have to 
> add, hope you fins some of it helpful.
>                                        S








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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2004 02:20:47 -0000
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Re: Upgrading the Air Filter?



I realize this topic has been beaten to death and I'm no engineer 
(not automobiles anyway) but my thoughts are this:

Martin's reference to air flow velocity vs. the shape of the air 
path is more commonly known as Bernoulli's principle (Also related 
to flight)

http://www.mste.uiuc.edu/davea/aviation/bernoulliPrinciple.html

so yes, changing the path air follows could increase your 
horsepower. That said, I cannot speak to the merits of John's airbox.

I would like to point out though that if you're looking for some 
kind of magic bolt-on horsepower you're not going to find it with 
this car. It's my opinion that none of these items individually will 
provide you with a quantifiable increase in horsepower or 
performance. However, when combined as a whole the results can be 
impressive. Meaning if you combined an ignition upgrade with dual 
exhaust and a free-er flowing input the results would be worth the 
effort.

Did I buy his K&N filter? Yes. Why? Because I noticed that my paper 
elements get dirty often and I get tired of waiting for a new one to 
come in the mail. I find it easier to wash and reinstall the K&N 
filter. That alone made it worth buying.

Rich A.
#5335

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "John Rydholm" <ebondefender_at_dml_y...> 
wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi everyone,
> I was browsing through SpecialTAuto.com's website after having 
> ordered some standard and some not-so-standard tune up parts, and 
> just wanted to ask your opinions. Does anyone think upgrading the 
air 
> filter/cover with one of those expensive K&N style filters with 
the 
> Lexan covers is worth it? And how do they work anyway? That cover 
> looks all nice and stainless etc. but it's OPEN! I mean, isn't the 
> stock air filter cover clamp on for a reason? I may not be a 
genius 
> in the car mechanical area, but still...Seriously, what are your 
> thoughts?
> -John








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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2004 02:49:23 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: DeLo's In Year 'Round Use



Either you are driving like a wild man or there is something wrong 
with your brakes. I can hardly get my Pilots to break loose on wet 
roads - forget dry pavement.

Harold McElraft - 3354


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_h...> 
wrote:
> 
> I NOW have the Pilot XGT's on my car,
> I bought them with the insurance money I got from WRECKING my car 
in the 
> rain
> when I was sporting the other cheapo crap that the previous owner 
put on 
> there.
> They had plenty of tread but no grip.
> 
> The thing is, no matter what tires you have the front end does not 
have the 
> weight to
> stop you, the front tires will lock up and you will go sliding.
> I wonder if there is an aftermarket ABS system that can be adapted?
> 









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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 21:19:44 -0600
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Upgrading the Air Filter?


Mike, I would be skeptical also, But I did all the small improvements to my
11004 before the Casey air box came out and they work. Yes, There was no
scientific study done, but the response to the foot was much improved as
getting on the freeway.
If the car is tuned and after the improvements are done then 02 adjustment
may need to be reset. Go watch the plastic air box pull down when you rev
the engine. It's starving for air.
I also agree it may not be for everyone and I'm not trying to convince you
of that. Just stating what my experience has been.
John Hervey
www.specialtauto.com




----Original Message-----
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net [mailto:mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 9:10 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [DML] Upgrading the Air Filter?




I am always skeptical of these claims because they are never done
with any kind of rigor.  I'm willing to bet that most every DeLorean
can benefit from a tuneup - with OEM parts or aftermarket.  Seat
of the pants evaluations are useless.  I would be willing to believe
claims if there are documented dyno runs before and after every
change, measured against new parts to the original design spec as a
baseline.  Anything else is marketing.

Ever notice how those stupid tornado intake infomercials ALWAYS
do a tuneup and filter change on the car with the installation of the part?

--
Mike


-------------- Original message from "John Hervey"
<john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>: --------------


>
>
> Dave,
> I beg to differ. If you ever try it you'll like it. The exhaust system
will
> handle more out put as it stands. I'm not saying that it can't be improved
> but with the modifications you seem to have never tried. You will see a
> considerable difference in response to your feed foot and some HP in the
> small performance changes I sell. Better low resistance silicone HP wires,
> +4 Spark plugs, Hotter coil Pertronix or MSD. If the car can't breath it
> can't exhaust, that why I build the new breather and filter with the
colder
> air input tube. The stock system is ok, and if your happy with what you
have
> then that's fine but you will get more with the above upgrades.
> John Hervey
> www.specialtauto.com
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at
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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 8
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 22:32:39 -0500
From: Josh Haldeman <jhaldeman_at_dml_fuse.net>
Subject: fascias for sale...


I currently have one set of immaculate freshly painted fascias (front 
and rear) available for $800 plus shipping, or $400 for one or the other.

First come, first serve.  I can send pics if you are interested.  e-mail 
me off list at jhaldeman(AT)fuse.net

Thanks for your time,
Josh

DeLorean Parts ebay Store:
http://tinyurl.com/6dhcw



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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