From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2371
Date: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 5:21 PM


There are 14 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Tire Replacement
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>

2. Re: Tire Replacement / SIZES
From: nicholden_at_dml_yahoo.com

3. Re: Re: Tire Replacement
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>

4. D for $11k
From: "Nun Yah" <joshp1986_at_dml_yahoo.com>

5. Re: This can't be correct....
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

6. RE: In Remembrance
From: "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>

7. Re: Reverse Lights
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>

8. Re: Re: Tire Replacement / SIZES
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net

9. Re: Tire Replacement / SIZES
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

10. Re: Re: Tire Replacement
From: Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com>

11. Lighting Problems
From: "Michael & Denise" <luckeys71_at_dml_cox.net>

12. Re: Re: This can't be correct....
From: JDub <doki_pen_at_dml_yahoo.com>

13. Re: Tire Replacement
From: "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>

14. Cincinnati Tech Session/St. Patricks Day Parade 2005!
From: Josh Haldeman <jhaldeman_at_dml_fuse.net>





Message: 1
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 04:03:19 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>
Subject: Re: Tire Replacement



I'm not really arguing, but it's difficult to compare a worn set of 
one tire with a new set of another. Also - the Yokos are a pretty 
stiff, lots-of-tread-on-the-ground tire which is good for nice dry 
pavement but not so good on wet or "greasy" pavement. I can 
understand why the Coopers would seem better in those conditions. 

I would probably go with the Coopers or something similar on a daily-
driver car. Especially at the price.

The last set of Michelin Pilot Sports I bought (not for the DMC) were 
$225 each (245-ZR40). Ouch. . . . never again.  

Dave 

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_c...> 
wrote:
> 
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> <SNIP>
> > I've driven a couple of DeLoreans on no-name tires (Cooper, , low-
> > line Goodyear etc) and honestly think they ride nicer in everyday 
> > driving than my Yokos. But you will give up some handling 
> capability 
> > (more understeer). 
> > 
> > Dave S
> 
> I have a set of Cooper Cobra GT's on my D. And I can tell you that 
> they have improved the handling of my car, in comparison to the 
Yoko 
> AVS Intermediates. My braking distance is not only shorter, but is 
> more controlled with no side to side motion. And they handle VERY 
> well in both rain, mud, and the bit of snow I've encountered on the 
> street, & in the mountains. All this with a shot, 20 year-old 
> suspension.








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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 01:56:22 -0000
From: nicholden_at_dml_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Tire Replacement / SIZES



Agreed David on most of what you say. My point was though if you go 
wider you must go with a lower profile which will retain the same 
rolling diameter thus not effecting the speedo, final drive ratio at 
the wheels etc. Back in 81 low profile tyres wern't as readly used 
and if so were very expensive. It stands to reason that you will get 
better handeling from a lower profile tyre due to the lack of un-
wanted side wall movement through a corner. My car has 255's on it 
now and shows no sign of clearance problems and in my view looks a 
lot better with a fat tyre under the guards. I am going to replace 
them still with a 255 but the correct proflie to match the original 
rolling diameter. I will let you know how it turns out!

Cheers Nick 10927
     
   Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 00:16:52 -0000
   From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Tire Replacement / SIZES



When you do not use the tire size listed on the tire label in the car
you are completely "on your own". The car was designed to use a
particular type and size tire. When you change it you can have
clearance problems, the speedometer may no longer be accurate, ride
and handling may be adversly affected. On more modern cars you will
upset the traction control and ABS systems. The Delorean isn't that
picky but it may not handle the way you would expect under extreme
conditions such as a panic stop. The only reason I can think of that
someone would not put the correct tire on the car is because they 
went
somewhere and the correct size was not in stock. As hard as it may be
to take a perfectly good set of tires off, in the intersts of safety
you should consider it.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757










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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:59:51 -0500
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>
Subject: Re: Re: Tire Replacement


I've been using Cooper Cobra G/Ts since 2001 and I am very happy with 
them.  They gave a smooth, quiet, comfortable ride on the long trips to 
Memphis, London (ON), and Pigeon Forge.  They were a vast improvement 
over my then 20-year-old Goodyears.

Of course I would recommend against using Cobras on a race track.  They 
are not high performance tires.

This discussion has already mentioned that Cobras are both reasonably 
priced and long-lasting.  But one thing no one has mentioned is that 
Cobras have an aggressive look that suits the DeLorean well.  The tread 
pattern is very similar to the Yoko AVS Intermediates, and the Cobra 
emblem on the sidewall looks sharp and even a little exotic.

I was attracted to Cooper tires because they were headquartered in 
nearby Findlay, OH, and years ago their advertising assured that all 
their tires were made in the USA.  However, I know the company has 
expanded and I have been unable to verify that the Cobra G/T is still 
made in a US facility.  Can anyone can supply information about this?

- Mike Substelny
VIN 01280, 10 years






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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 02:13:13 -0000
From: "Nun Yah" <joshp1986_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: D for $11k



 Is Alan Trepanier on this list? I ask because I tried to email him a 
guestion about his car that he has for sale on DMCnews Buy-N-sell but 
it would work all I got was a delivery failure message. I am very 
interested in buying the car but need to know what shape the 
mechanics are in.
  -Josh








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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 04:50:31 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: This can't be correct....



You should be able to remove that bracket and clean things up. With a
new bushing you should be alright. It looks like you will need a new
otterstadt switch too. NEVER USE SILICON. It will destroy the silicone
seal that the switch seals to. I am sure you will find many other
inventive little things the dreaded P.O. did in an attempt to "repair"
the car. I shudder when I see that kind of repair, it makes me wonder
what else they dreamed up. It looks like they took the otterstadt
switch apart and then tried to seal it back together with silicone!
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> 
> Jon,
> 
> Good job on the pictures. As you suspected it appears that an
attempt was









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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 03:00:10 -0600
From: "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: In Remembrance


Yeah John,
you just never when a friend that used to mean something to you dissapears 
from the planet
and then you might regret not making ammends with them over petty 
differences.
I just buried two friends who were murdered last week, today.
...you just never know.
- VB

>From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [DML] In Remembrance
>Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 20:10:30 -0000
>
>
>
>
>Group,
>We never know when it's going to happen.
>
>Jonas Pitchford of Baton Rouge, La.  29 years old and a Delorean
>owner I just found out passed away from a drowning accident in late
>June of this year from his Grandfather.
>Even though he was a avid swimmer and worked off shore on an oil rig
>he would call in and we talked about what he wanted to do to his car
>next. Since there was no autopsy performed they feel he ran out of
>air in the diving tanks and couldn't get up fast enough.
>Say a prayer for the parents and grand parents and remember him in
>your Christmas prayers as well as your own.
>I'll miss him telling me about the adventures of working off shore
>on the oil rigs.
>John Hervey
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
>moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
>For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com
>
>To search the archives or view files, log in at 
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>







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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:12:12 +0100 (MET)
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>
Subject: Re: Reverse Lights



Did you check the switch on the tranny ? 

> 
> 
> I need some help please.  My reverse lights have stopped working.  I 
> have checked the fuse, bulbs and tailight boards and can't figure it 
> out.  What am I missing here?  It's probably something simple ;)  
> Any advice or tips?
> 
> Thanks!
> Greg
> Seattle
> #6840

-- 
GMX ProMail mit bestem Virenschutz http://www.gmx.net/de/go/mail
+++ Empfehlung der Redaktion +++ Internet Professionell 10/04 +++





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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 17:31:43 +0000
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: Re: Tire Replacement / SIZES


You can't assume that a lower profile tire will give you better handling
than a stock tire.  The compliance in the sidewalls is considered when
the suspension is tuned - particularly for sports cars and especially for
sports cars designed or tuned by Lotus.  The sidewall is factored in
to the spring rate and the shock absorber bounce and rebound 
characteristics.  It is also considered when setting toe, caster and 
camber.  You will definitely change the handling by going with a 
wheel and tire combination that is different than what the suspension was 
designed for.  Without doing the math you can't know if the change 
is for better or worse.

--
Mike


-------------- Original message from nicholden_at_dml_yahoo.com: -------------- 


> 
> 
> 
> Agreed David on most of what you say. My point was though if you go 
> wider you must go with a lower profile which will retain the same 
> rolling diameter thus not effecting the speedo, final drive ratio at 
> the wheels etc. Back in 81 low profile tyres wern't as readly used 
> and if so were very expensive. It stands to reason that you will get 
> better handeling from a lower profile tyre due to the lack of un- 
> wanted side wall movement through a corner. My car has 255's on it 
> now and shows no sign of clearance problems and in my view looks a 
> lot better with a fat tyre under the guards. I am going to replace 
> them still with a 255 but the correct proflie to match the original 
> rolling diameter. I will let you know how it turns out! 
> 
> Cheers Nick 10927 
> 
> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 00:16:52 -0000 
> From: "David Teitelbaum" 
> Subject: Re: Tire Replacement / SIZES 
> 
> 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 17:33:17 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Tire Replacement / SIZES



Although you may have taken the tire rolling diameter into account to
mantain an accurate speedometer there are other things which when
changed may have serious effects. By changing the footprint of the
rear tires you have changed the braking proportions. This can cause
the rear wheels to lock-up more or less easily which can cause a loss
of control. The point here is there are MANY factors that a
manufacturer must take into account. Tire selection is a compromise
among all these things which takes engineers and test drivers a lot of
time to determine. Few (if any) private owners are capable of this
kind of research. You have to trust the origional engineers that they
made the best choice possible for the car as it was designed and
intended to be driven. Economics was also a factor so sometimes it is
possible to improve on what they did in the 80's. Just be aware of the
potential problems.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757

-- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, nicholden_at_dml_y... wrote:
> 
> 
> Agreed David on most of what you say. My point was though if you go 
> wider you must go with a lower profile which will retain the same 
> rolling diameter thus not effecting the speedo, final drive ratio at 
> the wheels etc. Back in 81 low profile tyres wern't as readly used 









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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 10:06:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Tire Replacement


I didn't realize we had so many Cooper "boosters" on
this list.  Anyway, with regard to the speed rating,
to get that rating the tire must prove to be able to
maintain that speed for a considerable period of time
(90 minutes, I believe) without any problems from the
speed.

In the past some have told me that they need higher
rated tires because they occasionlly go fater than
112.  But I doubt that anyone (including VB) has taken
their D past 112 for more than a VERY few minutes -
and certainly not 90 minutes.  

Dick Ryan
VIN 16867

VIN
--- therealdmcvegas <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net> wrote:
 
>http://coopertires.com/us/en/information/info-sidewall.asp
 
> Overall, the only advantage the Michelins have over
> the Coopers, are 
> speed rating: 118 mph on the Coopers, 130mph
> Michelin. But I 
> seriously doubt that anyone is going to get up that
> fast, so the 
> difference of 12mph really won't matter. 


		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. 
http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo 





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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 15:45:15 -0500
From: "Michael & Denise" <luckeys71_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: Lighting Problems


Once again I'm turning to the experts on the list to give me some advice on a problem!  All of the lights except for the head light are out on the left side of my vehicle.  This includes the side markers, rear taillight, front turn signal, and left hand license plate light.  I checked all of the fuses and they're good so I must be overlooking something obvious-perhaps a common ground connection?  They were working before the recent frame replacement so I know it's just a matter of tracing the problem but so far it has me stumped.  Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks and Happy Holidays to Delorean enthusiasts everywhere!
Mike

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:39:16 -0800 (PST)
From: JDub <doki_pen_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: This can't be correct....


I think "inventive" is an understatement describing my
findings in the last year of owning this car :)  It's
almost as if the previous owner did not want to invest
dollar 1 in any repairs.  Owning this vehicle has been
an extrememly "educational" experience.

With the help of people such as yourselves and
companies like Special T, the interaction I've
experienced among the Delorean community is just as
rewarding as being able to enjoy my car after the hard
work is done.

Thanks again everyone.

Jon


--- David Teitelbaum <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net> wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> You should be able to remove that bracket and clean
> things up. With a
> new bushing you should be alright. It looks like you
> will need a new
> otterstadt switch too. NEVER USE SILICON. It will
> destroy the silicone
> seal that the switch seals to. I am sure you will
> find many other
> inventive little things the dreaded P.O. did in an
> attempt to "repair"
> the car. I shudder when I see that kind of repair,
> it makes me wonder
> what else they dreamed up. It looks like they took
> the otterstadt
> switch apart and then tried to seal it back together
> with silicone!
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757
> 
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "DMC Joe"
> <dmcjoe_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> > 
> > Jon,
> > 
> > Good job on the pictures. As you suspected it
> appears that an
> attempt was
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating
> team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> 
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for
> sale see www.dmcnews.com
> 
> To search the archives or view files, log in at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>     dmcnews-unsubscribe_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 






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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 18:10:18 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: Re: Tire Replacement



Agreed totally. But in my case, my Yokos were in great shape, with 
about 12K miles or so on them, and LOTS of meat left on the treads. 
They still had long service life ahead of them, when I got them 
replaced with the Coopers.

I have no luck with tires. The DeLorean is the 3rd vehicle I've 
owned, where a nail has punctured the sidewall. There was no way to 
repair the tire, and unfortunetly, NO ONE in town had anymore of the 
rear tires in stock, because Yokohama had stopped producing them. And 
since I'm really funny when it comes to mixing & matching tires, I 
just opted to get 4 brand new ones. So on my car, I wound up with a 
pretty close comparison between two types of tires.

I've since exceeded the milage traveled on my Coopers vs. my Yokos. 
And the Coopers still perform just as well now, as when I first got 
them.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> 
> 
> I'm not really arguing, but it's difficult to compare a worn set of 
> one tire with a new set of another. Also - the Yokos are a pretty 
> stiff, lots-of-tread-on-the-ground tire which is good for nice dry 
> pavement but not so good on wet or "greasy" pavement. I can 
> understand why the Coopers would seem better in those conditions. 
> 
> I would probably go with the Coopers or something similar on a 
daily-
> driver car. Especially at the price.
> 
> The last set of Michelin Pilot Sports I bought (not for the DMC) 
were 
> $225 each (245-ZR40). Ouch. . . . never again.  
> 
> Dave 








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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 17:26:31 -0500
From: Josh Haldeman <jhaldeman_at_dml_fuse.net>
Subject: Cincinnati Tech Session/St. Patricks Day Parade 2005!


We just got done with the last one didn't we?!

Well apparently, we're coming up on a year again already come next 
March...so I'm officially announcing Josh's early Spring tech 
session/hang out day/St. Patricks day parade in Cincinnati, the weekend 
of March 12th and 13th, 2005.  Details for the weekend will follow 
closer to that date, but if you'd like to join our rapidly growing 
group, registration for the parade is $15 per car, and the tech session 
is, as always, free, with the option to get cheap parts for a day.

Mark your wife, lock up the calendar and bring the dog...or something 
along those lines.  If you're interested, drop me a line and let me 
know, so I can get an initial head count for registration which is due 
before Christmas.  The cost per car for the parade may go down, if we 
get enough people. (like more than 10)

Thanks fo yo time,
Josh







________________________________________________________________________
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