From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2374
Date: Friday, December 17, 2004 4:21 PM


There are 10 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. RE: Re: Questions on automatic transmissions
From: Chris Shepherd <chrisau79_at_dml_yahoo.com>

2. Re: Questions on automatic transmissions
From: "Joe OBrien" <joeyoseppijoe_at_dml_yahoo.com>

3. Re: Questions on automatic transmissions
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

4. Re: What's with the glug glug noise?
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

5. Re: Let's talk about that infamous fender.
From: tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com

6. Re: Monster Nation - Rich W.'s Delorean Projects (Jan. 2005)
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>

7. Re: Let's talk about that infamous fender.
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>

8. Re: Re: Questions on automatic transmissions
From: Thomas Mc Auley <dmc4087_at_dml_yahoo.co.uk>

9. Re: Re: Let's talk about that infamous fender.
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

10. RE: Re: Let's talk about that infamous fender.
From: "Nelson, Allan" <abnelson_at_dml_waterousco.com>





Message: 1
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 08:51:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Shepherd <chrisau79_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Questions on automatic transmissions


Believe John. Don't change the fluid. Anyone who tells you to change it is only interested in selling you a new transmission.
 
Chris
6301

Videobob Moseley <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com> wrote:


Well, "local boy" John Hervey told me that if I were to replace the fluid 
now after it is "burned"
that the new fluid would melt off all the plates inside my trasmission and 
it would be dead.
He told me not to change the fluid and to drive it until it breaks and then 
rebuild it or replace it because the damage is already done.

I told this to Stephen Wynne and he laughed, and said John was wrong, and to 
just do a
filter and fluid change on it right away.

Then again, I have had other mechanics tell me that once the fluid is burned
not to change it.... I think I remember someone telling me to put OATMEAL in
the transmission or something crazy like that!

I don't know who to believe or who to trust, some people have motives to 
sell me
a transmission, others are just trying to sound knowledgeable.
So far no one is willing to make any gaurantees.

The way I look at it is, right now it does run and drive.
Once it warms up it is fine...I drove it to PF this way.
If I take the chance and do the simple fluid change, it might help, it might 
do nothing
or god forbid it will wipe out the transmission for good and the car will be 
down until
I can afford to fix it.

I don't know what to do, but I don't think I should experiment with it until 
I have
an extra $5000 in the bank.

- VB

>From: "Harold McElraft" 
>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [DML] Re: Questions on automatic transmissions
>Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 23:45:02 -0000
>
>
>
>
>Sounds like the computer is shot and the fluid is LOW. Don't be
>afraid to run the fluid up to the full mark when the trans is COLD.
>I would get a new computer or at least let Hervey do his thing to it
>before I drove it another foot. Also, Stephen, Don and Rob are
>correct - not the local boys, just look at the collective DeLorean
>experience talking to you.
>
>Harold McElraft - 3354
>
>
>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Videobob Moseley" 
>wrote:
> >
> > Since we are in the thick of this topic, I would like to talk
>about the way
> > my car rides.
> > My automatic shifts like a mule just kicked you.
> > It winds way up and then jerks into gear with a slow slingshot
>effect.
> >
> > One of my main problems is that it will not shift into 3rd until
>it is
> > warmed up good.
> > If I take off on a cold day, I will have to drive in 1st gear for
>a while
> > otherwise it
> > will slip gear and the motor will just spin until I put it into
>first and it
> > will catch.
> > Once I get it up to a high RPM I can shift up to 2nd and it will
>go, but if
> > I put it in
> > 3rd it will just slip, unless I get on the highway and punch it.
> > Once I get going real fast, lets say 70 in 2nd gear then I can
>usually put
> > it in 3rd
> > and it will catch....but sometimes it will simply drop back and
>forth from
> > 2nd to 3rd.
> > Once the car is warmed up and finally drives smooth in 3rd, it
>will stay
> > like that as long
> > as you are driving it around.
> >
> > I have had people look at the trans fluid and smell it, and
>although it is
> > still red they tell
> > me it smells burned, and I have been told not to replace the fluid
>because
> > if I do
> > it will melt the inside of my transmission.
> > Of course Stephen Wynne told me that was BS and to go ahead and do
>it.
> > So I don't know who to believe.
> > But as far as I know the car has never had a trans service in 35K
>of life,
> > but I am
> > afraid to do it.
> > I just dont know what to do about it because I can not afford to
>send it to
> > Stegar.
> > I have had local trans shops tell me that they can rebuild it for
>me for
> > about $800
> > but of course Stegar and Grady both tell me that these trans shops
>only
> > "think they know what they are looking at" and "could not possibly
>do it for
> > that".
> >
> > All I know is that I have a serious problem with the transmission
>and it is
> > running like crap
> > because of it, it is robbing me of power and making me rev the
>engine too
> > much.
> > On cold mornings like we have had lately, I need to warm up the
>car for
> > about 20
> > minutes before I can drive it.
> >
> > So what should I do?
> >
> > - Videobob
> >
> > >From: "Harold McElraft" 
> > >Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> > >To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: [DML] Re: Questions on automatic transmissions
> > >Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:28:12 -0000
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >An accurately setup auto shifts nice and smooth hot or cold - in
> > >really cold weather the shifts are a little smoother - almost
> > >unnoticeable - warmed up - noticeable but smooth - no banging or
> > >jerking. I notice the change in engine sound more than anything
> > >along with more getup, especially at WOT. Never notice down
>shifting
> > >at coasting to stops or stopping. Down shifting from throttle
> > >response is firm but smooth and up shift the same - I try never to
> > >let the trans have to go through two gear shifts at once - i.e.
> > >first to third or third to first (I just visualize too much stuff
> > >going on in there for the by-pass of gears to be good for it).
> > >
> > >To get what I consider a really smooth trans took me a few years
>of
> > >working with an auto trans that was abused in its early years and
> > >run for some time with the computer screwed up.
> > >
> > >Three critical adjustments: The trans throttle cable, the computer
> > >working correctly and the vacuum module. And, the engine has to be
> > >working and idling correctly. In terms of problem areas I'd say
> > >first computer, then engine running correctly, throttle
>adjustment,
> > >vacuum module. Last, trans internals.
> > >
> > >The whine - is it in first or at the shift 1-2 only? That sounds
> > >like a trans filter clogged up or air in the system. Have you
> > >serviced the trans lately? The harsh down shift is a symptom of a
> > >faulty computer but an engine with a fast idle or slow to idle
> > >symptom will cause a similar issue.
> > >
> > >Diagnosing a D trans is really an art as much as a science in my
> > >experience. But, you have to be sure you're dealing with one
>problem
> > >not two or more. That requires checking everything one at a time.
> > >
> > >Harold McElraft - 3354
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Enid/Jeremiah
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hey everyone,
> > > >
> > > > A couple questions. I never really paid any attention
> > > > to it, but I was wondering how a ideal working
> > > > automatic transmission shifts. Obviously,
> > > > 1st->2nd->3rd, but what is its behavior? Is it
> > > > supposed to shift really hard and firmly, or does it
> > > > shift softly like todays modern cars where one can
> > > > barely feel a shift at all? Would a change in
> > > > temperature (summer vs winter weather) have a effect
> > > > on the shifting patterns? Also, when the automatic
> > > > transmission downshifts, should you be able to really
> > > > feel the downshifts or should it be really smooth and
> > > > almost unnoticeable? My car shifts up very firmly,
> > > > and it downshifts from 2nd to 1st very firmly, but I
> > > > don't really detect any downshifting from 3rd to 2nd.
> > > >
> > > > One last thing. Lately with the morning temperature
> > > > in the mid 20's, I've noticed a high-pitched whine
> > > > when going from first to second. This is if the car
> > > > is driven with no warm-up idle time. Today, I let it
> > > > warm up to about 160 degrees, and it doesn't make this
> > > > noise driving down the street with warm up time. Is
> > > > this anything to take note about, or is this just how
> > > > the car behaves when driven from a dead cold start in
> > > > 25 degrees?
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for your time.
> > > >
> > > > Jeremiah
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________
> > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
> > > > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >To address comments privately to the moderating team, please
>address:
> > >moderators_at_dml_d...
> > >
> > >For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see
>www.dmcnews.com
> > >
> > >To search the archives or view files, log in at
> > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
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>
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>
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 19:13:47 -0000
From: "Joe OBrien" <joeyoseppijoe_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Questions on automatic transmissions



Bob,

I personally would go ahead and change the fluid & filter ASAP. 
Before I drove it again, especially if that fluid is the original. 
If your auto tranny computer is still stock, have Hervey rebuild it.

After all, the fluid might not be burned, but a properly functioning 
shift computer, correct fresh fluid, and a filter can not be bad.

I'd do that before I dropped $5,000 into a new tranny. That might be 
all it needs.


Best of luck,


Joe OBrien










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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 3
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 18:17:05 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Questions on automatic transmissions



The "bloody red stuff" (Dexron-Mercon) is SUPPOSED to go into the
transmission! In the dipstick! The final drive with the level plug on
the side gets the gear oil! If you did put gear oil in the trany you
should flush it out and replace the fluid. If it doesn't shift
correctly in most cases it is a problem with the shift computer. The
quality of the shifts is dependant on the line pressure, The timing is
controlled by the shift computer. Refer to dmcnews.com-tech section-
automatic transmission for a procedure to disassemble the filter,
clean it, and reassemble. You cannot get all of the old fluid out
unless you either have a flushing machine or you disassemble the whole
trans and drain out the torque converter. The only other way would be
to drop the pan several times after driving, you only get around 3
pints out at a time.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "trekkerlb_at_dml_n..." <TrekkerLB_at_dml_N...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Group,
> 
> I had an issue with the shifting appearing too rough, slipping when
going from reverse to drive.  Since I had only gotten a chance to 








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 4
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 17:53:21 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: What's with the glug glug noise?



You can experiment with different tensions on the springs for the
decel valves. I don't think you will entirely eliminate the noise. You
might try to add a throttle retard to hold the throttle plates open a
little bit for a little while. It looks like a small, round dashpot.
You will have to fabricate a bracket to hold it against the throttle
arm or the gas pedal. You could probably find a suitable one in a
junkyard. Make sure the exhaust manifold isn't leaking, it will only
make the sound worse.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "ryanpwright" <yahoo1_at_dml_r...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Well, the glug glug noise is still present. I took the W pipe off and
> checked out the throttle plates & deceleration valves. There was some
> light black soot-like gunk on them, but not too bad. It wiped right
> off. The valves open freely if I depress the springs. I also replaced
> the oxygen sensor just for kicks.
> 
> There was no change in the sound. Everything is still the same.
> 









________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 5
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 18:28:44 -0000
From: tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com
Subject: Re: Let's talk about that infamous fender.



I can't speak for the intentions of DMCH to produce reproduction 
fenders and other body panel pieces, but that course of action is 
very doubtful.  The money spent on tooling would never be recouped 
based on the existing and future demand, and the fact that (in spite 
of everything that you might hear to the contrary) there are adequate 
supplies of replacement body panels ... including the left front 
fender.  That is not to say that there are stacks of them lying 
around - but there are panels available if you have a panel that 
becomes damaged recognition.  Minor damage can be repaired to near 
perfection if you have a body guy (or gal) that is schooled in 
the "stainless arts".  In regards to your question about creating a 
copy of a panel at some body shop ... 1/4 hard 304 CRES isn't quite 
as easy to work with as your typical alloy steel sheet metal.  Spring 
back, minimum bend radii, and many other factors are different.  Can 
it be done?  Undoubtedly, there is a shop someplace that could make a 
panel that would suffice.  It wouldn't be inexpensive however.

Toby Peterson  VIN 2248 "Winged1"
DeLorean Parts Northwest, LLC (new and used LF fenders in stock)
www.delorean-parts.com

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, ComposerZelgadis_at_dml_a... wrote:
> 
> Once upon a time, I heard rumors that DMCH would be making new body 
fenders (particularly that front-left fender).  I'm not sure if 
anything has materalized with this rumor or not, but... From what I 
understand,  there is absolutely no back stock left of these 
fenders.  Can one be custom  made by a metal "job shop?"  Can most 
shops reproduce one cheaply, and up  to original specs?
>  
> And let's say that fender is lightly to moderately damaged, is it 
possible to repair it back to its cherry condition?  And the same 
thing goes for our hoods!  Those gas flap / grooved hoods are also a 
bit scarce. I  realize that it all depends on the type of damage 
done, but being the paranoid  chap that I am, I just had to ask.  








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 6
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 19:37:12 -0000
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>
Subject: Re: Monster Nation - Rich W.'s Delorean Projects (Jan. 2005)



Updated Discovery Channel broadcast schedule for Monster Nation.
Looks like there will be three chances to see it or record it.

Looks like Monster Nation "goes on vacation" for about 10 days in
late December and starts up again the first week of January 2005.

As of today, Friday, December 17, 2004, this is the latest update
for the Monster Nation, Episode #28 to be aired in January 2005:

Jan 06 2005 _at_dml_ 08:00 PM Eastern   Monster Nation   Episode 28 
    
Jan 06 2005 _at_dml_ 11:00 PM Eastern   Monster Nation   Episode 28   
    
Jan 24 2005 _at_dml_ 05:00 PM Eastern   Monster Nation   Episode 28    

As with my previous email (with disclaimer), check local listings
or the DC website the day of the broadcasts, to check for changes.

Thanks,
Rich W.

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_o...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Sorry for the late notice, but I just checked the updated schedule
> on the Discovery Channel website and Episodes #26-#30 are delayed.
> 
> Well, It looks like Discovery Channel made some last minute changes
> to their broadcast schedule last week and my Delorean Projects spot
> (and the entire Episode #28) will be delayed until after Christmas
> or until the beginning of 2005.  The show is still Episode #28 and
> the schedule on Discovery Channel's website should be updated again
> by next week, so its a wait and see situation.
> 
> Here's the link again to the schedule:
> 
> http://dsc.discovery.com/schedule/series.jsp?series=24839&gid=0 
> 
> Note the time may also be different than expected, since I tried to
> catch a show last week but it had been played an hour earlier.
> 
> Current schedule appears the same time for Mondays, but Tuesdays
> through Fridays are now being aired an hour earlier at 5pm Central.
> 
> I'll post again when I have some updated information.
> 
> Thanks,
> Rich W.









________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 7
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 20:07:42 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>
Subject: Re: Let's talk about that infamous fender.



The other part of the equation is that as some of the cars fall into 
disrepair and get recycled(Hi Josh) by far the most salvageable part 
of the car happens to be the sheetmetal. Before anyone bothered 
stamping out new parts, all the old ones would have to be crushed or 
in museums, at which point no one would be crashing the cars any 
more, and there **still** wouldn't be any demand. It will (I hate to 
say this) always be cheaper to scrap cars than to spend the tens of 
thousands (millions?) it would take to tool up to produce fenders. In 
the end, it's always economics. In fact, the "street price" of DMC 
sheetmetal has dropped quite a bit in the last 5 years. Just ask 
anyone who tries to get the mythical 5K for a LF fender - they just 
don't bring that much. 

The vendors are spending their resources retooling consumables,  
interior parts, rubber parts, etc, because that's where the recurring 
demand is. 

Let's be careful out there....

Dave S


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, tobyp_at_dml_k... wrote:
> 
> 
> I can't speak for the intentions of DMCH to produce reproduction 
> fenders and other body panel pieces, but that course of action is 
> very doubtful.  The money spent on tooling would never be recouped 
> based on the existing and future demand, and the fact that (in 
spite 

> 
> Toby Peterson  VIN 2248 "Winged1"
> DeLorean Parts Northwest, LLC (new and used LF fenders in stock)
> www.delorean-parts.com
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, ComposerZelgadis_at_dml_a... wrote:
> > 
> > Once upon a time, I heard rumors that DMCH would be making new 
body 
> fenders (particularly that front-left fender).  I'm not sure if 
> anything has materalized with this rumor or not, but... From what I 
> understand,  there is absolutely no back stock left of these 
> fenders.  Can one be custom  made by a metal "job shop?"  Can most 
> shops reproduce one cheaply, and up  to original specs?









________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 8
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 20:42:51 +0000 (GMT)
From: Thomas Mc Auley <dmc4087_at_dml_yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Re: Questions on automatic transmissions


When my De Lorean arrived back home to Northern Ireland here, we soon found out the auto box was shot. The gears were slipping in that, but it seemed to get better the more the car was drivin...anyways, we made the drive to Dublin, from Belfast (to change the gearbox), which I think is around 100-150 miles. Near the end of the journey, the car would be tempermental about selecting drive. For example, when slowing down for a round-a-bout or traffic lights, the car would not select drive once I gave it some throttle to accelerate again. Simple solution was to let the the car drift, then try again.
So, David is right...dont drive it with slipping gears..only gets much worse.
 
Thomas 
Vin 4087 (auto to manual conversion)
Belfast


David Teitelbaum <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net> wrote:


The bottom line is NEVER to drive on a slipping automatic
transmission. If it slips it must be corrected quickly or you WILL do
an overhaul of the internals. I would drop the pan, clean it out,
clean or replace the filter and fluid. If you catch it early enough
you *may* be OK. Check the line pressure. It is a good general
indicator of the internal health of the transmission.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Videobob Moseley" wrote:
> 
> Well, "local boy" John Hervey told me that if I were to replace the
fluid 
> now after it is "burned"
> that the new fluid would melt off all the plates inside my 








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Message: 9
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 15:32:05 -0500
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Let's talk about that infamous fender.


IF someone needs a left front fender I have two of them 

Ken





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 10
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 14:43:57 -0600
From: "Nelson, Allan" <abnelson_at_dml_waterousco.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Let's talk about that infamous fender.


Just out of curiosity, does anybody know why there is such a discrepancy in
the number of the LF fenders as opposed to the rest of the body panels?
Looking at DMCH's website, it looks like there are hundreds of doors, hoods,
quarter panels (not sure about RF fenders??).  So why were there so few LF
fenders at the time of the plant closing?  Seems they would have been
purchased 1:1 in accord with all other panels.

Al

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Swingle [mailto:swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com]
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 2:08 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: Let's talk about that infamous fender.





The other part of the equation is that as some of the cars fall into 
disrepair and get recycled(Hi Josh) by far the most salvageable part 
of the car happens to be the sheetmetal. Before anyone bothered 
stamping out new parts, all the old ones would have to be crushed or 
in museums, at which point no one would be crashing the cars any 
more, and there **still** wouldn't be any demand. It will (I hate to 
say this) always be cheaper to scrap cars than to spend the tens of 
thousands (millions?) it would take to tool up to produce fenders. In 
the end, it's always economics. In fact, the "street price" of DMC 
sheetmetal has dropped quite a bit in the last 5 years. Just ask 
anyone who tries to get the mythical 5K for a LF fender - they just 
don't bring that much. 

The vendors are spending their resources retooling consumables,  
interior parts, rubber parts, etc, because that's where the recurring 
demand is. 

Let's be careful out there....

Dave S


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, tobyp_at_dml_k... wrote:
> 
> 
> I can't speak for the intentions of DMCH to produce reproduction 
> fenders and other body panel pieces, but that course of action is 
> very doubtful.  The money spent on tooling would never be recouped 
> based on the existing and future demand, and the fact that (in 
spite 

> 
> Toby Peterson  VIN 2248 "Winged1"
> DeLorean Parts Northwest, LLC (new and used LF fenders in stock)
> www.delorean-parts.com
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, ComposerZelgadis_at_dml_a... wrote:
> > 
> > Once upon a time, I heard rumors that DMCH would be making new 
body 
> fenders (particularly that front-left fender).  I'm not sure if 
> anything has materalized with this rumor or not, but... From what I 
> understand,  there is absolutely no back stock left of these 
> fenders.  Can one be custom  made by a metal "job shop?"  Can most 
> shops reproduce one cheaply, and up  to original specs?









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