From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2380
Date: Monday, December 20, 2004 10:12 PM


There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Centering the air meter plate (SOLVED)
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

2. RE: Mechanic in Greenville, SC area
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>

3. Re: Disappointment with the Moderators...
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

4. RE: Re: Mechanic in Greenville, SC area
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>

5. New DerLorean vs Avanti (Was DMC houston video question)
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>

6. Speaking of Automatics...
From: "artbywarren" <artbywarren_at_dml_yahoo.com>

7. Manual Case
From: "smileksr" <michaelbarth_at_dml_hotmail.com>

8. buy my car!!!! pretty please =)
From: "my real name" <joe4359102_at_dml_yahoo.com>

9. The SonnyV Posts, for the archives.
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

10. Re: Disappointment with the Moderators...
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

11. RE: Disappointment with the Moderators...
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>

12. RE: Disappointment with the Moderators...
From: Chris Shepherd <chrisau79_at_dml_yahoo.com>

13. Re: Disappointment with the Moderators...
From: "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>

14. RE: Disappointment with the Moderators...
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

15. RE: Re: Disappointment with the Moderators...
From: "Dan RC30" <danrc30_at_dml_hotmail.com>

16. Re: buy my car!!!! pretty please =)
From: "spaceace3113" <spaceace3113_at_dml_yahoo.com>

17. Re: buy my car!!!! pretty please =)
From: Chris Shepherd <chrisau79_at_dml_yahoo.com>

18. Re: buy my car!!!! pretty please =)
From: Josh Haldeman <jhaldeman_at_dml_fuse.net>

19. RE: buy my car!!!! pretty please =)
From: "Jay Gosciniak" <gotojayjay_at_dml_aol.com>

20. Wow, Delorean made it big now!
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

21. Re: Disappointment with the Moderators...
From: "gzapf" <x86Daddy_at_dml_myrealbox.com>

22. Re: Disappointment with the Moderators...
From: Noah <sitz_at_dml_onastick.net>

23. Re: Speaking of Automatics...
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

24. Re: Disappointment with the Moderators...
From: "dmc_05218" <wehold_at_dml_telepak.net>

25. An actual Delorean Topic
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com





Message: 1
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:30:10 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Centering the air meter plate (SOLVED)



You should not have had to break the washer. I can't remember for sure
but it may have been installed upside-down. It is supposed to be
there, I have seen it on all the mixture units I have disassembled. I
am not sure exactly what it's purpose is but you have to figure the
manufacturer would not put extra parts in that weren't necessary. In
any case I was correct in that something wasn't right inside and
adjusting it was not going to get it. A P.O. or his mechanic must have
been in there, this cannot happen by itself, the unit was disassembled
at some point in it's history. Now make sure the air sensor plate is
still centered. It must not touch the sides of the venturi and the
space around should be equal. You may have to readjust the mixture
screw, it may be way off if the motor was running with the air sensor
plate as out-of-position as it was. That cannot be done except with
everything reassembled and the motor running. It is VERY sensitive,
ie, a little bit of a turn changes things A LOT. Don't forget to plug
the hole over the mixture screw or you have a large vacuum leak.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757  


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Matt Spittle" <supermatty_at_dml_p...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Finally got something that I think will work.  If you take a look at:
> 
> http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/m/d/mds328/meterplate3.jpg
> 









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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 11:44:24 -0500
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>
Subject: RE: Mechanic in Greenville, SC area


I'm in Greenville, what are you trying to do?

-----Original Message-----
From: John Poland [mailto:jpoland13_at_dml_charter.net] 

Looking for a mechanic in the Greenville, SC area.  Any info would 
be appreciated.
John
5935





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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:50:16 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Disappointment with the Moderators...



 I believe what you are asking for is impossible. Anyone can "lurk".
Anyone can make up a ficticous ID and say they are from anywhere. The
moderators cannot verify each person that comes to the list nor are
they supposed to. It is up to the reader to asess the content of the
information posted and decide what to believe and what not to. With
people like Mark Levy and others on the DML anyone who masqureades
will eventually be found out. It is not for the moderators to figure
out who I am, they are only moderating based on content and relavance
to all things Delorean. We had this issue with Claude and his aliases
and we will have it again in the future on other topics. There is no
good resolution to this. Look what happened to the DMC Forum. They had
to go over to ID's and passwords, it was a free-for-all without it.
Nothing is perfect but all-in-all I think the moderators are doing GREAT.
David Teitelbaum (This is ME!)
vin 10757


-- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Dave Sontos" <dsontos_at_dml_v...> wrote:
> 
> I couldn't agree more. However my disappointment lies in the fact
that too
> much flame mail is allowed to be posted (VideoBob, Mark Levy). I
subscribe
> to this board for factual information and help. Too often private
"Opinions"
> become a main topic and detract from the total purpose of the group. 








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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 14:41:53 -0500
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Mechanic in Greenville, SC area


There's lots of guys who are capable of doing the work, but they don't see
it as a priority and will let the car sit for months and do nothing to it.

I used EuRover to do some work on my car but it took him 3 months just to
set the fuel/air mixture.

There's Euro-Car Specialists on Poinsett highway that works on DeLoreans. I
talked to them about fixing my head after I pierced the water jacket, but
they wouldn't take the job until their slow season (Fall). I ended up doing
it myself.

I would recommend just hit a few European car specialists and talk to them
about your car and see what they think.





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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 15:31:27 -0500
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>
Subject: New DerLorean vs Avanti (Was DMC houston video question)


Robert has a good point (below).  The DeLorean and Avanti have amazingly 
similar stories.

You can buy one of the 9,000 or so original DeLoreans for about $10-15K, 
or one of the 4,647 original Studebaker Avantis for about the same 
price.  I *think* the price of the brand new Avanti is about $60K but 
I'm not certain.  The 2005 Avanti was supposedly shown at last year's 
Chicago Auto Show, but I don't know the price.

The story of the Avanti (formerly Avanti II) suggests that hypothetical 
new DeLoreans would not compete with original DeLoreans.  If built, new 
DeLoreans would probably enhance the prestige of the originals.  The 
Avanti saga also suggests that the market for this type of car does exist.

Of course most DMLers would not buy a new DeLorean.  If we did, they'd 
need to tool up to make over 1,500 of them.  It took Avanti Motors 
almost 20 years to sell that many Avantis and Avanti IIs!

The Avanti Motors website mysteriously disappeared just a few weeks 
ago.  I believe the company was sold to new owners in October, and they 
are switching to use the the new Mustang drivetrain.  It's possible they 
are just retooling the website to reflect the new car and/or a new 
corporate vision.  But I am pretty certain that the Avanti is still 
alive and kicking after 40 years.

Unless/until someone announces that a new DeLorean is going into 
production there won't be much material to discuss under this subject.  
But I just couldn't let this thread end with the idea that a new 
DeLorean is impossible, when the evidence shows that it is quite possible.

- Mike Substelny

Robert (therealdmcvegas) wrote:

> Sorry VB, but that's flawed logic. There is another
> car which falls into the same catergory as the DeLorean,
> when it comes to reproduction. The Avanti.
>
> The Avanti was a Studebaker creation, that has survived
> through MANY inceptions, as various people over the years
> have resurected the car many times over. Overall, it
> remains a moderately popular, yet stable marquee, despite
> the many revisions of the car that have occured. From
> improving & modifying the original car, to the newer
> coachbuilt cars, that are derived from the Corvette
> platform.

> The DeLorean fits into the reproduction niche just like
> the Avanti, if not easier. If new DeLoreans were to ever
> hit the street, rest assurred that the value of original
> run cars would most certainly increase. People wouldn't
> skip buying an original DMC-12. They'd clamor for them,
> because it's the closest thing they can get to the
> newer cars.

<snip>







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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 22:04:35 -0000
From: "artbywarren" <artbywarren_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Speaking of Automatics...



Hey, Folks!

I just happened to check in to the list here for the first time in a 
long while and I want to pose a question or two of my own about the 
Auto Tranny. First of all, my Auto hasn't been doing so good lately, 
and hopefully by relaying some of the symptoms to you all, maybe you 
can give me a diagnosis. 

PLEASE read this entire message before you reply.

First and foremost, I began to feel (what I believed was) the shift 
CPU going bad a while back.. probably October-ish. As of right now 
(and no, I'm not driving the car like this nor did I for any extended 
period of time ..only enough to see if my suspicions were correct)
..as of right now the car is in 2nd, and stays in 2nd. It's in 2nd 
when you crank it, when you pull out, when you park. Period.  

At first, when you would pull out from a stoplight or whatever, it 
would shift.. 2nd.. 3rd.. no problem (other than the shifting 
being "stiff" but we don't even need to go into the 500+ stories I've 
heard on "Hard shifts are good"  then five minutes later "Oh, Nooo! 
Hard shifts are baaad!") 

AHEM! Anyhow... It would upshift OK when you first cranked it.. but 
then it would STAY where it was after getting to 3rd. You'd be in 
3rd.. cruisin' along having a blast.. pull into your favorite 
restaurant or where ever to do some "showing off" ..you go to pull 
out again (not turning the car off).. the car is still in 3rd after 
you came to a complete stop!  What the..?

Also! I too have noticed the "whine" like the other fellow stated.. 
in fact, he's the only other person I've ever heard talk about "the 
whine"... everyone else has been like  "huh?" when I asked. 

I have had the whining since I had the car (July, 2003) and I've had 
the "whine" inspected, both by the Transmission shop (a very clean, 
reputable shop with experience in exotic cars.. I mentioned De Lorean 
to the guy and he didn't even flinch) and a Bosch Sports Car Clinic.. 
the same place that has been doing all my restoration work thus far, 
and was recommended to me by another member of this Group, who bought 
a restored DMC from Texas.

Both places said the noise was "odd" but after substantial checking 
(especially on the part of the Tranny shop, who had to pull the pan 
for the original reason I took the car to them) neither shop could 
find a reason for, or a danger in, the whine. The fluid was OK.. they 
both test-drove the hell out of my car.. they all basically just 
said "Dude It's OK.. Please! Just enjoy yer car!"

OK.. story having been told.. here's what I'm asking with my message:
I already know the shift computer has had it.. it's toast. I just 
haven't replaced it because I don't drive it much in the winter, and 
frankly I don't have the money right at this moment. Since the fluid 
is OK (not burnt or foul smelling) Do you think there's a possiblilty 
that a new shift CPU alone will bring her back to life, or has some 
serious internal damage occured by me unknowingly driving it with a 
flaw of some sort? 

...Are we looking at a tranny rebuild when it was running fine about 
a month ago?.. or could we service her (clean the filter, ect.) and 
replace the CPU and notice some improvement?

Please Help!
Warren & Heather
#0809








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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 22:41:07 -0000
From: "smileksr" <michaelbarth_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Manual Case



I recently heard that a mint condition original vinyl case for the 
delorean owner's manual would bring hundreds on ebay.  Is that 
true?  If they are so valuable, I should take mine out of my 
glovebox and store it somewhere else.

Let me know...Mike #6538 (I think?)








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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 20:01:17 -0000
From: "my real name" <joe4359102_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: buy my car!!!! pretty please =)



i want to get rid of my stupid delorean....i cant seem to sell the 
damn thing no matter how hard i try!
i am selling this car for only 8000 dollars - and i bought this car 
for 17500 and had 12500 worth of work put into it at DMC houston 
(which i have all the paperwork for) ---including had the engine 
upgraded to turbocharged, also had performence exhaust installed now 
it has 2 big badass exhaust pipes ---also had lots of little 
thisnthats installed like replacement parts n such

dont have any pics sorry- interior/exterior are fine-30000 miles- 
automatic-
main reason im selling for so cheap is cause i cant find a buyer for 
what i want out of it but here are some other reasons (these reasons 
are definently not bad enough to make the car worth 8000, its worth 
much more than that)--- engine makes tinking noise when it drives 
and car vibrates and is noisy when driving- something drains power 
from battery and car dies but then when u replace battery it starts 
back up again but dies within a day or so....

......joe4359102_at_dml_yahoo.com








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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 15:49:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: The SonnyV Posts, for the archives.


By request, and for the official archives, here are
the SonnyV posts I have.  (from 6/14/2001 - 9/30/2004)

There are likley more.

-----Original Message-----
From: Sonny V [mailto:sonnyvr2000_at_dml_yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 12:11 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: Stainless Steel Illusion (Second
Edition)$$$


Mess with a good read? What??!

The book ends with John DeLorean in jail and the
factory closed! Anyone reading it today may think
that's where the story ends. And that's if 
they can find one to read! My library doesn't even
have a copy, and every one I have seen on Ebay the
last couple months has been $100 or more.

As long as this one is using the original films, and
the addition looks good, I don't think they're messing
with anything.

And with DMCH selling the updated ones for just $40,
I'll probably buy one to GIVE to my local library. Hey
James, how about a discount if I buy two - one for my
public library and one for me?

Sonny


-----Original Message-----
From: Sonny V [mailto:sonnyvr2000_at_dml_yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 10:19 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] windshield antenna


Last night, a guy from across town who also owns a
DeLorean came over and he's got an earlier car with a
windshield antenna. He got a rock chip in it, and had
it "repaired" though it is now starting to spread (and
no won't pass the state inspection). I had read in one
of the books that the reception was poor with this
antenna anyway (which he agreed with).  And since
there are no windshields with the embedded antenna
anymore, it's a moot point.

Near as we can figure, he can either replace the
windshield and mount an antenna on the front fender
(initially the cheapest option, but then stuck with a
hole in the fender) or go with a rear mounted power
antenna, right? But then I was talking to a friend at
the office who has an older Range Rover, and the radio
antenna on it is a part of the rear defrost element.
Has anyone tried to use the element as an embedded
antenna? The rear defrost on a DeLorean is unused for
the most part, anyway.

Sonny

-----Original Message-----
From: Sonny V [mailto:sonnyvr2000_at_dml_yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 10:34 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Monroes and Gabriels


Does anyone else besides me think it makes *NO* sense
at all to put shocks from a Camaro and a Nissan truck
on a rear-engine car with such uneven weight
distribution (65R/35F) as a DeLorean? Can someone
(Marty?) who advocates this explain why it is okay to
do this?

Sonny V

-----Original Message-----
From: Sonny V [mailto:sonnyvr2000_at_dml_yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 10:36 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] 100404 Wheel bearings - cheap!


jwit6_at_dml_cs.com wrote:

> These bearings are about $45.00 each at autozone.

Or $35.09 from DMCH or the other vendors...who need
the support of DeLorean owners more than any national
chain...IMO.

Sonny V.


-----Original Message-----
From: sonnyvr2000 [mailto:sonnyvr2000_at_dml_yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 10:51 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: Cleaner/Sealer


It never ceases to amaze me that people will ask a
question here 
about a part/product/service that they bought from one
of the 
vendors. Why aren't you asking them? Warren (and
everyone else there)
has always been very helpful over the phone to me and
it's a free 
call!

My experience with this stuff has been better than
Andy's, but he and 
I are also using it two different ways, too. The
instructions on my 
bottle of Cleaner/Sealer are as follows:

"Always wear rubber gloves. Shake well before use.
Squeeze directly 
onto a DAMP cloth and rub into the surface of the
stainless, going 
the same direction as the grain. Allow to sit for ten
minutes, and 
then rinse thoroughly. For a bright shine, polish with
a soft dry 
cloth going the same direction as the grain. For
heavily soiled 
areas, pre-cleaning is required."

The emphasis on the word DAMP above is mine. I think
that is why 
Andy's experience has been less than he expected.
Warren told me that 
there were two formulas of this stuff as well, the
original factory 
stuff, and an improved formula that they now sell. He
also said the 
application instructions between the original and ther
new stuff were 
different, so maybe Andy has some of the original
stuff.

I'd also add from my personal experience that the bit
about shaking 
well and using gloves is not a bad idea. The gritty
stuff inside the 
bottle tends to settle to the bottom, I even shake it
while using it.

Sonny V.


-----Original Message-----
From: Sonny V [mailto:sonnyvr2000_at_dml_yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 8:56 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: Door struts and doors


PJ Grady recently dropped his price (as did just about
all the other vendors) as a result of DMCH lowering
their price. I don't think Grady's are the same as
DMCH's, though James Espey told me that DMCH's are
newly designed to the original factory specification.
Something about the dampening oil being bad after all.

I was looking at DeLorean One's site last night and
saw that they sell doors at $2759.66 EACH. The other
vendors sell them for $1000 each...maybe D1's are some
leftover "gold-plated" doors? :-)

Sonny V.


-----Original Message-----
From: Sonny V [mailto:sonnyvr2000_at_dml_yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 3:00 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Who wears XXXL?


> P.S. James - who is wearing these XXXL shirts?
> One more X and they can't fit in the car.

Ken, though I think you meant that to be funny, I
think some people might have found it offensive. My
dad's a big guy, at 6'6" and 280. Not as muscular as
he used to be, but at least now he can have a shirt
like me for when we go to shows! 

Also, my wife bought a t-shirt to sleep in! She's
about 120 lbs, but now I can at least sleep with "my"
DeLorean!

Sonny
XL, but working up to XXL


-----Original Message-----
From: Sonny V [mailto:sonnyvr2000_at_dml_yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 5:14 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: Refurbished Fascias


Josh -

Are you doing the fascias in matte or gloss finishes?
How do you ship them? I understand that the rears will
not go UPS? Can you estimate shipping to 63640? What
kind of warranty do you offer? Many of the repainted
fascias I have seen (on cars for sale) have already
started to peel at the edges where the paint meets the
black areas. Are you stripping the old paint or how
are you preparing them? What about the warping in the
fronts, are you putting in any reinforcement as part
of your refurbishment? This is something that I wanted
for my car, but I'd like to get something that will
last, preferably at least HALF as long as my originals
did...

Sonny V.

-----Original Message-----
From: sonnyvr2000 [mailto:sonnyvr2000_at_dml_yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 8:21 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: Permacast wheels?


Production wheels were made by GKN Kent Alloys
Division. GKN stands 
for Guest Keen and Nettlefolds, and DMC also purchased
suspension 
joints, CV joints and the frames from GKN.

It may be that the wheels used on the prototypes were
made by someone 
else. They have a slightly similar look (see page 60
in Stainless 
Steel Illusion).

Sonny V.

-----Original Message-----
From: Sonny V [mailto:sonnyvr2000_at_dml_yahoo.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 10:28 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] New angle drive received and
installed...


I got my new $60 angle drive from DMC Houston on
Friday, along with a new retaining ring and a set of
instructions. Nice looking piece, and obviously a
newly manufactured part, as their web site address is
cast into the housing (much like their other new
parts). The added grease fitting in place of the set
screw will make lubrication easier, though the bag it
came in has a big label on it that warns against using
pneumatic grease guns. The one thing I found difficult
was how to remove the nut from the old angle drive. I
called them on Saturday, and happened to catch James
there. He described a method of using two picks or
small flat screwdrivers to compress the old retaining
ring enough to slip the nut off. When pressed, he did
admit that it was not the easiest method. I asked what
that was and he said that now that new ones were
available, it was easiest just to put the nut in a
vise, and break off the old angle drive with a hammer.
After that it was a breeze. 200 miles on it already
and it works great! 

Sonny V.



-----Original Message-----
From: sonnyvr2000 [mailto:sonnyvr2000_at_dml_yahoo.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 8:14 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: DMCH's performance engine...and
visit to DMC


Adam -

I was passing through Houston last week on a business
trip and I called over to DMCH and 
asked if I could come visit. Their place is a few
minutes from the airport (Bush?) and James 
came over to pick me up and brought me to their
facility.

All I can say is WOW! The pics on their site really
don't do it justice. You can't imagine how 
much stuff they have unless you have been there. I
counted 36 DeLoreans, plus the two 
"half" cars in their showroom. James took the time to
give me the guided tour and 
answered all my questions and put up with me for a
good solid hour before I had to go 
back to the airport. It was also nice to meet Warren,
Julie and Bill - I've spoken to all of 
them on the phone and they are just as nice in person.

Anyway, about the engine. Seems they are building two
new company cars, and are selling 
the two they have now - actually the five-speed used
in the Players Run and seen on the 
cover of their last magazine has already been sold.
Their black painted automatic is for 
sale now. It has the performance engine, suspension,
HID lights, heated seats, and on and 
on and on. James let me take it out for a drive, and
it really goes. I have an automatic, and 
it's hard now to drive mine knowing what it *could* be
like. I obviously didn't drive it 
enough to get a feel for mileage, but James told me
that it gets about the same mileage as 
a stock engine.  Also sounds a lot "tougher" with the
new exhaust.

Also got to see their new grey leather/vinyl seat
covers, which came in the same day I did. 
I have a black interior car, and those hadn't arrived
yet, but the grey looked really good 
and the vinyl was a good match for the original. I saw
some seats in clients cars there with 
"knockoff" seat covers and there is a big difference
in how they look. Warren mentioned 
that soon they'll have other interior parts like
a-pillar and b-pillar trim, too.

I'm glad I took a chance and called DMC when I was
coming through town, if any of you 
are passing through Houston, you ought to stop by.

Sonny V.

-----Original Message-----
From: sonnyvr2000 [mailto:sonnyvr2000_at_dml_yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 6:52 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DML] DMCH's performance engine..


Marc -

A quick question...do you ever have anything nice to
say about DMCH?

Sonny V.

PS - As far as what you think about the exhaust being
too loud...you 
know what they say...if it's too loud, you're too old.
:-)


-----Original Message-----
From: sonnyvr2000 [mailto:sonnyvr2000_at_dml_yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 1:37 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: clutch release bearing


Cecil -

It sounds to me like you received one of the early
release bearings 
instead of a later one. Based on your VIN you should
have one like 
you took off, with the plastic insert. If you got one
of the ones 
that's all metal, then you got one for an early, early
car, like a 
less than 1000 VIN. Only a few hundred cars used this
style part.

Sonny V.


-----Original Message-----
From: sonnyvr2000 [mailto:sonnyvr2000_at_dml_yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 2:09 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Exhaust note of DMCH Engine


[Moderator Note: Discussions of the sound of DeLorean
engines are appropriate to the DML.  Discussions about
the semantics of racial slurs are not.  No further
bandwidth will be given to the "ricer" comment.   -
moderator Mike Substelny]

Marc -

> frankly I don't think the majority of DeLorean
owners
> want their car to sound like a ricer with coffee
cans
> on the tail pipes.

I don't think anyone who has experienced DMCH's engine
either through 
ownership or driving would agree that it has the
exhaust note 
commonly associated with the imports and their
exhausts that are 
popular today.

Several people here on the DML have this exhaust, I've
read, would 
any of you characterize it as sounding that way?

Finally, I'm sorry you saw my message to you as a
personal attack. 
However my wife, who happens to be Asian-American, did
take offense 
at your use of the term "ricer". I'm sure you meant no
offense, right?

Sonny V.



-----Original Message-----
From: Sonny V [mailto:sonnyvr2000_at_dml_yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 12:59 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] angle drive update


Just an update on my new DMCH angle drive. I passed
the 1500 mile mark on it over the weekend, and the
last 150 or so miles on it last week and this weekend
were in some serious rain. Still going strong.

Sonny V.





		
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Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. 
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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 10
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:36:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Disappointment with the Moderators...



--- Eric Itzel <eric_at_dml_seviernet.com> wrote:

<SNIP>
> For those who are disappointed with the moderators
> about this issue,
> volunteer and become one. 
<SNIP>

I did not realize that volunteers were being accepted
as moderators.  I must have missed this post, but I
would have no problem at all being a moderator.

> After looking at the issue, and being near the
> center of it, I would
> speculate that this issue has been started by one
> who has a true grudge
> against this vendor. Everyone and everything else
> favoring the issue is a
> pawn for this persons cause.

Based on your message to me on the DMC Forum, I can
only guess that I am the "one" you speak of?  

First off, I did not START this.  While I can take
credit for digging around for all of a half hour to
get the IP addresses of the "SonnyV" messages, I
cannot take credit for discovering this oddity.

Furthermore, I have no grudge against any vendor. It
is also short sighted to disregard facts based solely
on the source.
 
> This email list is for the benefit of the DeLorean
> world, and our DeLorean
> vendors are in existence to provide a
> product/service to us owners and to
> make a living for themselves.

Yes, in an honest way.

> I am sorry for this post, but it looks to me like
> this bitching has
> persisted far too long. Please get over this and
> continue with your normal
> lives.

It amazes me every time... When people complain about
complainers.  Look in the mirror.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 11
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 11:54:45 -0500
From: Travis Goodwin <tgoodwin_at_dml_vantagep.com>
Subject: RE: Disappointment with the Moderators...


There's no grudge. It has to do with underhanded marketing. Any attempt to
mislead a consumer is not tolerated in advertising. That's why there are
massive law firms dedicated to consumer advocacy.

I work for an ad agency and "guerilla marketing" has always been frowned
upon.

It works like this, an advertiser hires someone to post positive messages in
online forums and newsgroups to promote their clients products and services.
Basically, they are hired to pose as satisfied customers. This is worth than
spam because at least the average person can recognize spam. 

It's not that what they're doing is evil; it's just a very very very very
very very bad practice. And if it's true, I would choose not to do business
with someone who chooses to market themselves in this way.

That's why this issue is important to me.


-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Itzel [mailto:eric_at_dml_seviernet.com] 
Subject: Re: [DML] Disappointment with the Moderators...
Hi Everybody,

I am posting this with the utmost respect to all DML'ers. I personally am
just tired of this issue.........

I am sorry for this post, but it looks to me like this bitching has
persisted far too long. Please get over this and continue with your normal
lives.





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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 12
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 09:12:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Shepherd <chrisau79_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Disappointment with the Moderators...


Re: Sonny V.
Personally...I couldn't care less. I've "known" James since he was "Mikasa" on AOL. Nice guy and helpful. I've done business with DMC Houston and have always been happy with them. This whole thing is rather silly from both ends. Enough already.
 
Chris
6301





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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 13:34:10 -0600
From: "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Disappointment with the Moderators...


I don't know if I am the only one who thinks this way,
but I have always felt that the role of a moderator on a forum like this is 
to simply weed
through the posts and remove the SPAM and porn ads.
I don't like the thought that someone else's OPINION decides if my opinion 
makes
it to the forum for discussion.
If someone is going to far and it is getting out of hand then I could see a 
moderator
shutting them down, but things stay pretty civil on here I think.
I get messages rejected all the time and most of them would have been fine
and harmless.
It takes less effort to let it go than to reply back to me telling me it is 
rejected.
So it is easy to see that certain moderators have their own personal agendas
and sway the conversation towards their point of view or to favor their 
friends
or favorite vendors.

Heck, if you think the SonnyV threads are worth investigating you would have 
a
ball finding out how much stuff the moderators skew.

I say, NO MODERATORS!
Only SPAM FILTERS.
I want to hear what everyone has to say and I want to be heard.
I am a grown man and can handle a little text.
- Videobob






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 14
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 15:39:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Disappointment with the Moderators...



--- Dave Sontos <dsontos_at_dml_verizon.net> wrote:

> I couldn't agree more. However my disappointment
> lies in the fact that too
> much flame mail is allowed to be posted (VideoBob,
> Mark Levy). 

Do you have an example of me flaming someone?

> I subscribe
> to this board for factual information and help. Too
> often private "Opinions"

My post on the SonnyV issue WAS FACT. 

> become a main topic and detract from the total
> purpose of the group. When
> someone posts a email about having a problem with a
> vendor more often than
> not they have not even contacted the vendor to
> review the problem. I myself

The entire list was the victim in this particular
situation.  The deception took place on the list, and
therefore should be discussed on the list.

<SNIP>



		
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Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. 
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 15
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 12:25:07 -1000
From: "Dan RC30" <danrc30_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Disappointment with the Moderators...


Eric,
Here is my response to your post...

>Or, if the DML is not up to your standards, then by all means you have the 
>option to leave. If >you are offended by the vendor in question, either 
>cease your business with them, sell your car, or seek other vendors.

This is something I have considered doing. However, you are missing the big 
picture. This topic is not something that is insulting, the topic is someone 
employed by a major vendor being mischevious and deceptive. For me to ignore 
it and let it go by would be irresponsible.

>After looking at the issue, and being near the center of it, I would 
>speculate that this issue has been started by one who has a true grudge 
>against this vendor. Everyone and everything else favoring the issue is a 
>pawn for this persons cause.

Near the center? How so? What ties do you have to this?

Also, your speculation is wrong. Not only did I not start this topic, I 
didn't even discover it nor was I involved in it's discovery. I just saw the 
results as everyone else did and my comments on the topic were prohibited 
from being posted. I think that's very inappropriate that my voice should be 
censored because the moderators are protecting the guilty party here. I have 
no grudge whatsoever. It wouldn't matter to me who the offender was... it 
should be exposed for everyone to see and talk freely about.

>I am sorry for this post, but it looks to me like this bitching has 
>persisted far too long. Please get over this and continue with your normal 
>lives.

No need to apologize Eric. Unlike many people, I embrace freedom of speech 
and am glad you came out publicly with your comments... however misguided 
they may be. I say this because you obviously can't see the entire picture 
objectively. If you did, then you, like so many others, would completely 
agree with me.

I've been getting pounded with private e-mails from members of the DML that 
I know, and some that I never spoke with before. All of them, yes, all have 
said they agree with me 100%. Some wish to remain anonymous, and I will most 
certainly respect their wishes. A few of these people are long-time DML-ers 
too. Wanna know what the most common statement was from those e-mails? "You 
hit the nail right on the head". It's a damn shame that their voices 
couldn't be heard publicly due to fear of possible repercussions. As 
everyone can see, I am not afraid.

Thank you to everyone on this list that has privately e-mailed me. I 
appreciate it and I hope that someday nobody will be afraid to voice their 
opinion on this list without fear of being blacklisted.

I know that most, if not all of the moderators hate me now... but that's ok. 
They are free to hate me for whatever reason they want. I feel that I am 
right and I'm sticking to it.

---Evil Dan

PS- I'll be in Phoenix, AZ for a week if anyone wants to stop by and say 
"hi!" :) Drop me an e-mail...





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 16
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 01:55:45 -0000
From: "spaceace3113" <spaceace3113_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: buy my car!!!! pretty please =)



replace the alternator and fix the exhaust...then try to sell it








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 17
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:33:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Shepherd <chrisau79_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: buy my car!!!! pretty please =)


Where is it? What is the vin # ? I could be interested.
 
Chris
6301

my real name <joe4359102_at_dml_yahoo.com> wrote:



i want to get rid of my stupid delorean....i cant seem to sell the 
damn thing no matter how hard i try!
i am selling this car for only 8000 dollars 
......joe4359102_at_dml_yahoo.com





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Message: 18
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 22:32:55 -0500
From: Josh Haldeman <jhaldeman_at_dml_fuse.net>
Subject: Re: buy my car!!!! pretty please =)


Hmm...I think it's in your approach...

I personally haven't ever met a "stupid DeLorean".  That really doesn't 
make it sound very appealing.  ie, I wouldn't pay $8000 for a stupid 
DeLorean when I can get an intelligent one for only $15,000.

General rule is it's hard to sell something that you yourself don't find 
desireable.  Fix the problems the car has, and you could get $20,000 or 
more out of it.  Don't and you'll be lucky to get $5,000.  That's the 
tradeoff.  Doesn't sound like you have more than a couple hundred 
dollars worth of repairs maximum.

BTW, sounds like your problem with the battery draining is alternator 
related.  If you've replaced the alternator already, have you checked 
the light on the dashboard?  Or does the battery drain while it sits?

-Josh
VIN 5102
VIN 15964
VIN 11289 (parts)
VIN 10236 (parts)
VIN 3951 (parts)





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Message: 19
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 19:53:56 -0600
From: "Jay Gosciniak" <gotojayjay_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: RE: buy my car!!!! pretty please =)


Where is the car located? I wanted to buy a Delorean forever!!!


-----Original Message-----
From: my real name [mailto:joe4359102_at_dml_yahoo.com] 
Subject: [DML] buy my car!!!! pretty please =)

i want to get rid of my stupid delorean....i cant seem to sell the 
damn thing no matter how hard i try!





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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 20
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 17:06:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Wow, Delorean made it big now!



I know a few people use the chat client "trillian". 
They just released version 3 of the software.  Mixed
in with the assorted emoticons (smiles and such) they
have a DeLorean!

The text version is "(bttf)" and it does look like the
time machine.

Kinda neat!

I guess there is a BTTF fan, or DeLorean fan working
for Trillian?  Or is this something all of the regular
chat clients do to?

http://www.trillian.cc

BTW, I do not work for or have any connection what so
ever with the company that makes this product.  I am
just a happy user.



__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 21
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 01:29:55 -0000
From: "gzapf" <x86Daddy_at_dml_myrealbox.com>
Subject: Re: Disappointment with the Moderators...



I think a lot of the conflict here boils down to a difference in 'net
culture between people.  Psuedonyms, handles, 1337 hacker names,
etc...  are perfectly normal and expected by some, the "name yo' momma
gave you" is expected by others.  Every net forum I've seen, from
mailing lists, Usenet, web boards, and old BBSes have had a mixture of
people using real identities and "alternative" ones.  And it's also
not been much of a surprise to find friends and acquaintences using
*both* or multiple handles.  That is simply how the 'net is.  Some of
the people who go by handles are shocked when they run into people who
are going by their government recognized name.

As for alleged astroturfing.... that's another matter, but some of us
have seen it so many times in so many venues, it just looks more
clumsy than immoral when it occurs.  I view this "scandal" with
curiosity and not much else.

Anyway, Moderators: I thank you for not seeing a single V14G RA
advertisement, for not seeing flamewars overwhelm the rest of the
postings, etc... and that's exactly what I expect from the Mod team. 
Good work.

--Greg
#2894








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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 22
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 22:03:26 -0500
From: Noah <sitz_at_dml_onastick.net>
Subject: Re: Disappointment with the Moderators...



On Mon, Dec 20, 2004 at 01:34:10PM -0600, Videobob Moseley wrote:
> 
> 
> I don't know if I am the only one who thinks this way,
> but I have always felt that the role of a moderator on a forum like this is 
> to simply weed
> through the posts and remove the SPAM and porn ads.

Depends on the list. On some lists, you're right. On others, it's the
moderators' job to keep the discussion on topic. On lists in the IT
industry (and there are thousands), a good moderator (or helpful
subscriber) will point a poster to a forum more suited to a question
that's not on-topic. The moderator can also exercise the option of
weeding out flame-posts, since they generally cause more problems then
they solve.

Section 2 of the list rules (http://dmcnews.com/Admin/rules.html) seems
to lay things out fairly plainly. If folks don't like the rules, they're
(obviously) under no obligation to be here. =)

> I get messages rejected all the time and most of them would have been fine
> and harmless.

I've had a couple rejected, and thinking on it, the moderators were
right to do so. I've no complaints about how they've handled my
postings.

> It takes less effort to let it go than to reply back to me telling me it is 
> rejected.

Yes, but it (in the opinion of the moderators) was not appropriate (for
whatever reason) for the list. Right or wrong, they're the
g[h]od[des][e][s]. =)

> So it is easy to see that certain moderators have their own personal agendas
> and sway the conversation towards their point of view or to favor their 
> friends
> or favorite vendors.

This is, of course, a risk. I've on this list for several years now, and
I can't recall an instance where one of the major vendors was given
better/worse "airtime"* (that's not the best word I know, but I'm running
on nowhere-near-enough sleep ATM, so bear with me =)  ).

Now, if the complaint is that you, as a vendor, are being slighted,
you're welcome to your opinion. I've seen what you sell and, in one
case, I've purchased from you. I personally feel that you tend to
overcharge for your merchandise, but I went in knowing what I was
paying, I got what I paid for, and I have no complaints about the
quality of the merchandise.

> Heck, if you think the SonnyV threads are worth investigating you would have 
> a ball finding out how much stuff the moderators skew.
> 
> I say, NO MODERATORS!

Not your call; this isn't a democracy. It's a benevolent dictatorship
(of sorts).  If you're going to be here, the rules are known and you 
play by them.  If you don't like the rules, you're free to leave and/or 
start your own list.  There's at least one other DMC list on yahoo 
groups now; "forking" of lists happen for various reasons.

> I am a grown man and can handle a little text.

Mmmm. One could argue that this phrase is somewhat at odds with the
all-caps above. 

That said, letting through all inflamatory email can (and has, I've 
seen it on other lists) destroy lists and communities. I was subscribed 
to a list that was comprised of a fairly close-knit community of folks; 
we'd known each other for years. No rules posting, and all was well. 
A couple of folks we didn't know subscribed, and began
posting increasingly inflammatory messages. Yes, people can block
messages from certain posters. But not everyone does. If I block
messages from John Q., but not Peter P. (who's may be a good friend of mine),
and Peter P. does *not* block John Q, then I see all Peter's responses
to John. I can block his email, but then I miss all his posts. And while
I can write email filters that would likely be able to catch most of the
messages in Peter was responding to John (and still let Peter's other
messages through), most people out there can't. Over time, the
signal-to-noise ratio reaches an level of imbalance that most people on
the list do want to deal with, and unsubscribe.

Of course, it works the other way as well; Moderator(s) who continually take
positions which are at odds with those of the bulk of the members of a
particular list soon find that folks go elsewhere (this happened to
another list I'm on within the last month). It's a balancing act,
and given that this list has survived this long, I figure the moderators
are doing a decent job. 

I've no desire to see this community die, and I am of the opinion that
without moderation of some kind, the odds are in favor of that happening
on almost any online discussion forum. Is it perfect? Nope. Does it work
more often that not? Far more, I think. Do I have a better solution?
Nope. I rarely have answer to folks' questions, but I learn a lot, and I
like that. 


--noah
#2867
(for the record, not a moderator, no desire to be one, and I think I'd 
have to be reintroduced to any of the current moderators at the next meet.)

* Delorean One notwithstanding, but that's a discussion that I have zero
(and possibly less than zero) desire to get involved in. I mention it
only for the sake of completeness. Nothing to see here, move along. =)





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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 23
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 04:05:06 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Speaking of Automatics...



Repair or replace the shift computer. Replace or clean the
transmission filter. The procedure is over at dmcnews.com in the tech
section. Have the shop do ALL the external adjustments INCLUDING A
LINE PRESSURE CHECK. The whine is "not a good thing" as Martha would
say. Either the level is too low or too high or the filter is plugged
up. The whine you hear is the cavitation inside the fluid pump and it
will mean the line pressure is low. A low line pressure will kill the
clutch packs, again "not a good thing". On a long shot it *could* be a
bad idler pulley bearing. Just replace them or temporaraly remove the
belt on the A/C and run the motor to see if it goes away. You will
notice the whine is more pronounced in cold weather, the transmission
fluid is thicker, causing it to whine more. Contrary to what you are
being told the whine is not normal.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "artbywarren" <artbywarren_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hey, Folks!
> 
> I just happened to check in to the list here for the first time in a 
> long while and I want to pose a question or two of my own about the 
> Auto Tranny. First of all, my Auto hasn't been doing so good lately, 
> and hopefully by relaying some of the symptoms to you all, maybe you 









________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 24
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 03:03:16 -0000
From: "dmc_05218" <wehold_at_dml_telepak.net>
Subject: Re: Disappointment with the Moderators...



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Chris Shepherd <chrisau79_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> AMEN CHRIS 
ENOUGH ALREADY 

HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALL

BRUCE
0518


> Re: Sonny V.
> Personally...I couldn't care less. I've "known" James since he was
"Mikasa" on AOL. Nice guy and helpful. I've done business with DMC
Houston and have always been happy with them. This whole thing is
rather silly from both ends. Enough already.
>  
> Chris
> 6301








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 25
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 23:09:33 EST
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: An actual Delorean Topic


I am working on another restoration for a friend of mine and at the same time 
working on possibly the next raffle car.

Both cars althought totally different backgrounds, storage, etc are exactly 
the same in problems.

Most are basic, bad fuels sys etc but the thing that gets me is the damage to 
the crumple zones.  I am wondering if this is something that is not being 
looked at well enough 

Out of the 11 cars I bought three needed new crumple zones and two needed 
repair.

On that same note I notice the shocks usually have not leaked and still work.

The brakes on a car that has sat are about 50 -50 with one car not running 
for 15 years the brakes worked fine another one had not run for only three years 
and they were shot.

My point here is that DeLoreans that sit do deteriorate and it appears that 
they do at a faster rate than one that is being driven,   I would have thought 
that ones that are driven at least for the crumple zone would have been worse 
but that does not appear to be the case in the cars I have bought.

To my surprise in all this I only replaced one fuel accumulator but had to 
replace all the warm up regulators.

It also appears that the Clutch slave cylinders go much more frequently than 
the master brake cylinder although I usually like to replace both.

The history we are getting on the raffle car that went to Shannon will help 
give feedback on how well and long some of these parts will last and what parts 
we should have replaced and did not.  If it worked we left it.

Last issue 

I am noticing that the exhaust manifold gaskets go more to age than mileage.
I have one car with 100k and the gasket just blew.  My concourse car with 7K 
on it just went and coincidentally the 170 mile car that I shipped worked here 
just fine but blew soon after arriving.

I have a feeling we will all be doing exhaust manifold gaskets in the near 
future (unless they are already done)

PS I like the Volvo Gaskets better than the D gaskets they seem to compress 
better and seal better.
Just my opinion

Ken


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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