From: <>
To: <>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2382
Date: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 1:05 PM

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. RE: An actual Delorean Topic
From: "D F" <>

2. Cigarette lighter light
From: JDub <>

3. Re: NON-Disappointment with the Moderators...

4. Battery drain

5. Re: Speaking of Automatics...
From: "sweitzel_2000" <>

6. Re: Disappointment with the Moderators...
From: "cbl1739" <>

7. Agree with the Moderators...
From: "Cecil Longwisch" <>

8. Re: buy my car!!!! pretty please =)
From: "Joe OBrien" <>

9. Ticking noise and battery drain (was Re: buy my car!!!! pretty please =))
From: Mike Substelny <>

10. Re: Speaking of Automatics...
From: "Elvis Nocita" <>

11. Merry Moderated Christmas!
From: Holler <>

12. Axel seal replacement tricks
From: "ksgrimsr" <>

13. Re: Speaking of Automatics...
From: Enid/Jeremiah <>

14. Re: SonnyV Question - James Espey.
From: "joekuchan" <>

15. Re: Disappointment...
From: Marc Levy <>

16. Re: buy my car!!!! pretty please =)
From: "Elvis Nocita" <>

17. RE: Axel seal replacement tricks
From: "Dave Sontos" <>

18. Re: Axel seal replacement tricks
From: "Dave Swingle" <>

19. Search the Archive..........
From: "ctdmc83" <>

20. RE: Speaking of Automatics...
From: "DMC Joe" <>

21. BTTF D at 2004 Cruise for the Cure
From: "Michael C. Babb" <>

22. RE: Battery drain
From: "DMC Joe" <>

23. Re: Going keyless (push-button start)
From: "cbl1739" <>

24. Re: What's with the glug glug noise?
From: "ryanpwright" <>

25. Re: An actual Delorean Topic
From: "David Teitelbaum" <>

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 04:30:12 +0000
From: "D F" <>
Subject: RE: An actual Delorean Topic

Regarding the exhaust gasket.
I might be wrong, but based on my car and other stories it appears that if a 
car has been sitting for a long time there is moisture build up and 
corrosion that corrodes the exhaust gasket and manifold area.  It seems to 
blow shortly after the car is started.  The car that is driven a lot tends 
to have more water resistant residue around that area and much less 
rust/corrosion.  I don't think you can relate the exhaust gaskets to miles 
at all but only to how long a car was sitting.  For the record, I bought my 
car with about 24,000 miles and it had been sitting a long time.  The brake 
lines and master cylinders didn't work at all and were so gummed up that 
some of the lines had to be replaced because we couldn't clean them out.  
Strangely enough, the clutch system worked fine and still does.

Something else very interesting that I think should be checked out on most 
cars that sat around.
Under the console, there are two rubber spacers that hold the fuel lines 
apart (One just in front of the stick and one near the accumulator.  In my 
car.. the gas lines were in perfect condition except where the rubber 
spacers had held moisture and completely corroded the lines through.  This 
didn't become apparent the first time I started it but shortly after running 
it there was gas leaking out the middle of the car and nobody could believe 
it including myself until I saw what happened because the lines looked 
perfect and the holes were covered up by the spacers.

Info for the records I guess.

Dale Funk

>I am noticing that the exhaust manifold gaskets go more to age than 
>mileage.I have one car with 100k and the gasket just blew.  My concourse car with 7K on it just went Just my opinion


Message: 2
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 21:06:35 -0800 (PST)
From: JDub <>
Subject: Cigarette lighter light

Hey guys, on my D the cigarette lighter light stays on
all the time.  What's the deal? Does yours do this?



Message: 3
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 01:17:42 EST
Subject: Re: NON-Disappointment with the Moderators...

In a message dated 12/20/2004 7:23:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes:

I'm on an un-moderated list too, job related. Help, I'm drowning!  IMHO, KEEP 
IT MODERATED! I don't have time to read it all as it is, plus I save ALL, 
yep, ALL DML posts on disk for my convenience.
Bridgeton, NJ

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 4
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 01:01:26 EST
Subject: Battery drain

In a message dated 12/20/2004 11:08:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes:
Or does the battery drain while it sits?>>

Mine does. If I can't drive it for several days, I need a jump.  Two year old 
Optima battery. Ideas?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 5
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 07:27:30 -0000
From: "sweitzel_2000" <>
Subject: Re: Speaking of Automatics...

I'm an owner of an automatic. When I got my car (3231) it had been 
sitting for 15 years with 4858 original miles on it and a bad fuel 
system. When I finally got the engine and fuel system squared away I 
set out for the inaugural drive only to find that my shift computer 
was toast like many others. I (like others) started freaking out 
about the $$$ I would have to pay for a replacement computer. I 
happened across Mark Hershey's article on dmcnews about his trans 
computer exploits and decided to take a look for myself. What I would 
like to say more than anything to auto (slushbox) owners is this: The 
transmission computer really isn't very complicated at all and you 
should not be afraid of it. The fact of the matter is is that it's a 
relatively simple electrical circuit that was assembled with 
substandard parts and placed in a horrible location on the vehicle. I 
read the article with earnest and I must observe that someone with 
even novice soldering skills I think would be able to perform the 
replairs outlined in Mark's article. I myself took one half of a day 
and took the 2 circuit boards out of the housing. (I didn't even 
remove it from the car - i just pulled the cables out behind the 
vehicle and sat on the garage floor for the procedure) I had gone 
over to a local electronic component retailer and purchased the 
capacitors and TIP 42c shift transistors for less than $3.00. I 
removed all the caps and replaced them. I also added the .1uf caps to 
the circuit as mark suggests. I replaced the shift transistors and 
reassembled the boards onto my transmission. Total time expended was 
less than 3 hours and the shifting of my trans is absolutely perfect. 
Auto owners: Please don't think that your trans computer failing is 
the end of the world. If it is flaky don't keep driving on 2 or less 
gears. either pull the board and take the repairs into your own hands 
or send the boards to one of the vendors for a rebuild.


Message: 6
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 07:36:45 -0000
From: "cbl1739" <>
Subject: Re: Disappointment with the Moderators...

--- In, "Dave Sontos" <dsontos_at_dml_v...> wrote:
 Vendors are here to make money, plain and simple. If you
> have been taken advantage of or screwed by a vendor and as a last 
> feel the need to warn other members of this vendor then by all 
means make a
> post. New people to the board have no idea who or where to get 
help. I was
> track and keep the flame mail and opinions to a minimum.
> David Sontos
> Vin 02573

A true vendor experience.
If this offends anyone I truly apologize.
But it is the truth.

I tried to do as you said,(tell the TRUTH on a different vendor 
experience)on a different forum and also this forum,but that 
particular "vendor" sent out all his "bulldogs"(as he promised if i 
did not do as he wanted) to chew me up,spit me out,and make me look 
like the worst AssH**E dirtbag artist,I got put down in the worst 
ways,insulted  in the worst ways,then comes on himself at the end
(after his bulldogs finished "their job") and makes me look like a 
dumb ass retard,when it comes to Deloreans, to Quote: "finish me off" 
in the Delorean community,(, and even threatened to have me jailed!! 
his words)AND the moderators LET IT THRU,(and deleted my rebuttals)
(vendor favoritism)Talk about a PERFECT slander lawsuit!!).Sometimes 
vendors think they are gods in the Delorean community.( i thought so 
with this vendor,until I experienced first hand his BS)They are just 
business people trying to maximize their profits.(ie:overcharge)and 
sometimes take advantage of people.(I know I was) Vendors do not- the 
truth be told about them.But time TELLS the truth, and my helpful 
record over the years on this list (and many others)and ebay proves 
my good name.
 remember the old saying, the bad disappear, until the "coast is 
clear".I'm still here.

P.S. No vender's names were mentioned so NO flaming.


Message: 7
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 23:16:55 -0500
From: "Cecil Longwisch" <>
Subject: Agree with the Moderators...

Although I read the list daily I rarely post. When I do it is usually for an answer to a technical question that I am struggling with. 

In the list of responses from Sonny I see that he actually responded to me in an email which I hadn't remembered. I am not offended and appreciated the correct response.

I do not recall ever receiving any technical help from Dan or Marc. (fact). I am confident they are both capable of providing helpful information but chose to rarely provide positive/constructive additions to the list. (opinion). I almost always get help from the moderators with my specific car problem. (fact)

I am sure we  all ( maybe not Dan or Marc?) have done things we regret and hind sight is 20/20. Even former U.S. Presidents ( you fill in the names).

Let's get back to technical discussions as this has no benefit to the list. Everyone who cares knows it and those who do not want to move on. 

There is at least one unmoderated list that would gladly accept posts on this topic until the cows come home.

Cecil Longwisch

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 8
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 08:26:15 -0000
From: "Joe OBrien" <>
Subject: Re: buy my car!!!! pretty please =)

Look at his profile. This is just a kid messing with the group, and
most likely has no car. You can tell by his tone, very immature. Don't
waste your time with him.

Joe OBrien


Message: 9
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 09:40:59 -0500
From: Mike Substelny <>
Subject: Ticking noise and battery drain (was Re: buy my car!!!! pretty please =))

Whether the "pretty please!" message is an authentic sales pitch or not, 
the problems described are common and certainly not fatal.  By 
(amazing?) coincidence, two happen to be problems that were discussed 
recently on the DML.

As Ken Koncelik said last night in his "Actual DeLorean topic..." 
message, our cars have reached the age at which exhaust gaskets fail, 
perhaps even when they are not driven.  A leaking exhaust gasket causes 
a ticking noise which sounds like the engine has serious mechanical 
damage.  But in this case there is no mechanical damage.  The gaskets 
are inexpensive, though replacing them is quite a job.

Then last Monday (December 13, 2004) Jon posted a description of the 
pinched wire that caused his passenger door marker lights to stay on all 
the time.  The topic was "Door Light Diodes."  This simple problem is a 
sure fire way to drain a good battery every day or two.  I believe 
anyone who has a mysterious battery drain should take a look at their 
passenger door marker lights and refer back to Jon's message.  In a 
nutshell, he found a pinched wire right behind the center marker light.  
He didn't even need to take the door apart.

I don't recognize the other problem, "vibrates and noisy when driving" 
from any DML post this week.  We had a whine and a glug-glug, but I 
don't remember a vibration.  Does anyone else?

- Mike Substelny
VIN 01280, 10 years


Message: 10
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 17:36:49 +0100 (MET)
From: "Elvis Nocita" <>
Subject: Re: Speaking of Automatics...

Hi Warren,

how good is your knowledge about electronics ?

I can walk you step by step thru some simple tests to check the
governor and if you have a little more knowledge about how to hold
a solder iron - I can help you to fix your governor by yourself.
Parts cost are about $2.50 or so.

At least we can check if the output stages of the governor work 
correctly. All you need is two small 12V bulbs and some wires.

Let me know.

Elvis & 6548

> Hey, Folks!
> I just happened to check in to the list here for the first time in a 
> long while and I want to pose a question or two of my own about the 
> Auto Tranny. First of all, my Auto hasn't been doing so good lately, 
> and hopefully by relaying some of the symptoms to you all, maybe you 
> can give me a diagnosis. 
> Warren & Heather
> #0809


Message: 11
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 12:41:48 -0500
From: Holler <>
Subject: Merry Moderated Christmas!

First, there is no 'Sonny V. fiasco', because the moderators do not
allow 'fiascoes' on this list, thank you very much.
I think the moderators have been generous, allowing investigative
'documents' and such.
But enough.
I believe the rude awakening sounds like this: You can't believe
everything you read.
Either someone just learned this, or thinks nobody else has.
Let's move on to better conversations about DeLoreans.
And personally, I do prefer the 'happy happy joy joy' friendly (read:
quality) conversations!

And now you may all consider me a suspect of spreading such good cheer:
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays, my DeLorean friends! :)
Peace on Earth, and good will to all DELOREAN moderators, owners,
hopefuls, parts vendors, service providers, magazine publishers, car
show producers and enthusiasts everywhere!
Oliver Holler
vin 10694


Message: 12
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 18:59:44 -0000
From: "ksgrimsr" <>
Subject: Axel seal replacement tricks

With the holiday break coming up I have some time to fix an anoyance 
I have had for some time. After 170K miles on my car, my manual 
transmission axel seal is starting to weep a little on the one side. 
It's not a big problem as I have less than a drop a day, but I am a 
neat-freak with my garage and I cann't stand to have any drips on my 
floor (and it also makes a mess of the tranny as all the road dust 
sticks and makes a nice goo).

The seal in question that I need to replace is item #25 in section 
4.1.1 of the parts manual (part number 103013).

I thought I noticed someone mentioning some time back that there is 
a trick to replacing this seal. If someone has experience and advice 
on this procedure I would appreciate it.



Message: 13
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 12:00:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Enid/Jeremiah <>
Subject: Re: Speaking of Automatics...

Hey there Warren,

I'm the guy who mentioned the whining noise.  I
probably will be the 20th or so person to respond to
your posts, but this is what I've started to diagnose.
 The whine seems to be coming from the alternator; it
only seems to do it in cold weather - I don't think it
has anything to do with the transmission at all.  This
is very preliminary and I may not be right, but I put
my car in park and pushed the accelerator, and the
whine accompanied the acceleration.  If it was tranny
related, I would figure it wouldn't happen in park,
but who knows for sure =P.



Message: 14
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 22:24:36 -0000
From: "joekuchan" <>
Subject: Re: SonnyV Question - James Espey.

The silence is deafening, isn't it? And that's probably all that 
needs to be said about this, IMHO.

-Joe Kuchan

--- In, dmcjohn_at_dml_h... wrote:
> [MODERATOR'S NOTE: Parties that are particularly interested in this
> should consider directly touching base with the principal parties
> involved, since some of the questions around this are probably not 
going to be addressed by anyone else.]
> Hi,
> We have been patiently waiting for an explaination from James 
> Espey/DMC Houston on the SonnyV issue. The query was put forward 
> nearly 2 weeks ago, but so far it seems he/they are hoping this 
will just go away.


Message: 15
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 20:31:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Marc Levy <>
Subject: Re: Disappointment...

I take none of this personally..  Why can't friends
disagree on things, and still be friends?

The point of this discussion is to show there is
significant interest in the SonnyV topic, such that we
deserve an explanation from those who can explain the
"oddity" which was pointed out.  A few weeks have
passed, and there has been no official response from
James or DMCH.  If that is not a smack in the face to
all members of the DML, I don't know what is.

Saying lets forget about it as to avoid a embarrassing
or uncomfortable situation is not how I think this
should be handled.  Frankly, it is somewhat cowardly. 
The quickest way to get past this is for those
involved to speak up, Otherwise even if it goes away
or the moderators cut the thread, the bad taste will
still remain.

--- Eric Itzel <> wrote:
> in the end, nothing is going to happen except a
> bunch of DeLorean owners who
> should be friends won't be.

Do you Yahoo!? 
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. 


Message: 16
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 09:32:53 +0100 (MET)
From: "Elvis Nocita" <>
Subject: Re: buy my car!!!! pretty please =)

Hey Joe7263458721345,

we had a scammer lately here who tried to sell a Delorean for 7000€.

The informations about the car he gave me were almost as bad as yours.
He also didn't tell me his real name.

If you really have a car for sale - why do you wanna do it anonymous ?

And no pictures available ? Today about everybody has a digicam or
at least your friends or neighbours have one. If this car is really 
worth what you are telling us - you'd try to get that money.

Sorry if I have to criticise you, but the bad experience of the last 
few days tells me that here's something wrong !

Elvis / 6548

> i want to get rid of my stupid delorean....i cant seem to sell the 
> damn thing no matter how hard i try!
> i am selling this car for only 8000 dollars - and i bought this car 
> for 17500 and had 12500 worth of work put into it at DMC houston 
> (which i have all the paperwork for) ---including had the engine 
> upgraded to turbocharged, also had performence exhaust installed now 
> it has 2 big badass exhaust pipes ---also had lots of little 
> thisnthats installed like replacement parts n such
> dont have any pics sorry- interior/exterior are fine-30000 miles- 
> automatic-
> main reason im selling for so cheap is cause i cant find a buyer for 
> what i want out of it but here are some other reasons (these reasons 
> are definently not bad enough to make the car worth 8000, its worth 
> much more than that)--- engine makes tinking noise when it drives 
> and car vibrates and is noisy when driving- something drains power 
> >from battery and car dies but then when u replace battery it starts 
> back up again but dies within a day or so....

+++ Sparen Sie mit GMX DSL +++
AKTION für Wechsler: DSL-Tarife ab 3,99 EUR/Monat + Startguthaben


Message: 17
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 18:30:55 -0500
From: "Dave Sontos" <>
Subject: RE: Axel seal replacement tricks

NO NO NO !!!!


To perform this maintenance item you only need fig.24 pn 104216 Lip Seal (2
pcs) and the Drive Flange section 4.7.0 fig.2 pn 100171 or 110539 (depends
on vin #) (2 pcs)

You need to replace the flange also because the old seal has worn a groove
into the flange.

This is a fairly easy repair. Do both sides at the same time. 
1) Remove the axle shafts
2) Drive out the roll pin holding the flange to the differential shafts
3) Place a oil pan under the differential to catch the oil.
4) Slide the flanges off the shaft (may require some tugging)
5) Pry out the old lip seals
6) Replace with new lip seals and flanges
7) Check fluid level in differential and fill with 80-90W gear oil

Under NO circumstance should you remove or attempt to adjust fig 26 in 4.1.1
the Diff. Adjust Screw Assy.

Dave Sontos
Vin 02573


Message: 18
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 01:58:47 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <>
Subject: Re: Axel seal replacement tricks

Easy work. . . 

Remove axle (worst part of the job).

Punch rollpin out of flange, pull flange from trans. If the trans is 
full oil will run out, if it's been leaking and is low, it may not.

Pry seal out with big screwdriver or seal remover. DO NOT remove the 
differential carrier adjusting nut as stated in the manual. The seal 
will come out just fine with it in place.

Put a little sealant on outside of new seal and gently press in 
place. You can get it about 1/2 way in by hand, finish it off with a 
small hammer and a large socket. Stop when it is flush with the 

For the absolute best repair, call Grady (I don't know if the others 
have this, I never asked) and order a sleeve for the flange. It's a 
bit pricey but it will gaurantee that you never need to do this 
again. You'll notice that the flange has a bit of a groove or pitted 
area where it rides on the seal. This will chew up the new seal in 
short order. The sleeve goes over that area and gives the seal a nice 
shiny new surface to ride on, AND microscopically increases the 
diameter of the flange making the seal a tiny bit tighter. The only 
tricky part is installing the seal, you get one try to get it on 
straight or it will kink and be ruined. Use a bit of sealant under it 
too.  Alternative is to replace the whole flange, but then you are 
still dealing with plain old steel.

I'd recommend doing both of them while you have it in the air.

Dave S


Message: 19
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 02:01:44 -0000
From: "ctdmc83" <>
Subject: Search the Archive..........

Gentlemen, I'd appreciate a little help in searching the archive.  I 
want to read as many posts as I can about engine oil recommendations, 
viscosity, etc., especially relative to the New England climate.  I 
do NOT want to start another oil thread.  I like to research, but 
when I typed in "oil", "engine oil", and "oil change" I got very few 
hits.  Tips, anyone?  Thanks, NM 


Message: 20
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 21:35:06 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <>
Subject: RE: Speaking of Automatics...


>From your description you have found the source of your problem. Tel-tale
signs of damaged shaft bearings inside your alternator will usually begin as
an occasional "winning" noise. The same situation applies to the AC pulley
bearings. Temperature, humidity and electrical load will act upon a
defective bearing and cause it to admit a winning noise that coincides with
engine speed. 

DMC Joe  

-----Original Message-----
From: Enid/Jeremiah [] 
Subject: Re: [DML] Speaking of Automatics...

I'm the guy who mentioned the whining noise. 
 The whine seems to be coming from the alternator; 


Message: 21
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 21:44:25 -0500
From: "Michael C. Babb" <>
Subject: BTTF D at 2004 Cruise for the Cure

Nice looking BTTF DeLorean at the 2004 Cruise for the cure -
especially like the ground effects on the side - and I believe that it
is also sporting chromed rims.

This one belong to someone on the list?  Nice work!
VIN 3472


Message: 22
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 22:44:21 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <>
Subject: RE: Battery drain


This is a common problem and can be caused by several current drain
situations. The most common, which you have probably already checked, are
the door lights. To eliminate this possibility remove fuse #12 during
storage periods and see if that corrects the problem. There are other items
in the electrical system that commonly draw current from the battery even
when they are turned off. Well known items are the radio and clock memory
circuits. Other items that can cause current drain are the door lock module
and in some situations other electronic components in the electrical system.
Most of these current leakage components should not cause a healthy battery
to drain significantly in just a few days.

You mentioned that your battery is two years old which means you could have
a defective battery. A common battery problem that can effect even a brand
new battery, is a weak cell. Battery's with weak cells may appear to work
fine until you try to crank the engine. I have some simple tests you can
perform that will assist you in locating the source of your battery drain.

Before conducting any tests make sure that your battery is in tip top shape.
The easiest way to do this is take your battery to any automotive facility
that can perform a "load Test" on your battery. If you have access to the
facility where you purchased your battery that would be best. If your
battery fails the test purchase a new one, than contact me either on or off
list and I will forward you step by step instructions on isolating current
drains in your electrical system.



Message: 23
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 04:01:39 -0000
From: "cbl1739" <>
Subject: Re: Going keyless (push-button start)

I just recently sold a 75 Bricklin (vin 1136)that was setup with  
push button start
BY THE pervious P.O.,the way it was setup was that the Coil was set 
on "hot" with a toggle switch,the column ignition was setup so that 
you could NOT crank over the starter with the ignition or key 
switch,the part where you "crank" the car over with the key was 
locked out,so that the key would only go to the on position and off 
position or acc position. Then there was a push button momentuary 
switch,that you would push with your finger to start.
So the process would go like this(I say would go as I do not own it 
any more)
Turn the ignition key to the "on" position-- then flip on the "hot" 
toggle switch to the coil(that powers on the coil),then push on 
the "start" button,and that would crank over the motor and start it.
To turn off,all I had to do was flip down the toggle switch, that 
powered up the coil,and turn off the ignition key.
The only downside was that IF the toggle switch was left on(with the 
engine not running)and left up (powered up),the coil would be "hot" 
or powered on,until the toggle switch,was flipped down or off.Which 
meant that the coil would be energized and could/would overheat the 
coil and BURN OUT. It only happened once with me when I left the car 
at a welders shop,to have some work done,they drove it out of their 
shop,awaiting my pickup,when I went to pick it up,I saw the toggle 
switch in the up side,and tried to start it anyway,sure enough they 
burnt out the coil,lucky for me I got a ride to pickup my 
Bricklin,and had a spare coil at home(later I kept a spare in the car 
just in case it happened again(never did).

No more "D's"
Just one "B"
Making life just 
a little simpler
after 22yrs
passing them on
to a new


Message: 24
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 04:19:30 -0000
From: "ryanpwright" <>
Subject: Re: What's with the glug glug noise?


Thank you again for your response. I'd like to avoid "adding" anything
to the car - while a throttle retard might make the sound go away,
that isn't fixing the core problem (whatever it is). I'd rather track
down whatever is causing this and fix it right.

How can I find out if the exhaust manifold is leaking? The car isn't
particularly loud so if there is a leak, it's going to be minor - but
could be enough to cause this glugging. If there are any tricks to
detecting manifold leaks, I'd love to hear them.



Message: 25
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 04:46:18 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <>
Subject: Re: An actual Delorean Topic

Having seen many "sleepers" and drivers I can tell you in general you
are usually better off getting something that is running no matter how
badly over something that has been sitting for an extended time. First
off you can actually see what works and what doesn't where on a
"sleeper" you usually can't even start the thing. If you can't start
it you can't tell if the brakes, clutch, transmission, electrical
system work so you have to figure it will need EVERYTHING. After you
finally do get it to run you find leaks, all the previous owner's
"repairs", all of the problems that caused it to be left for dead,
etc. A running car can at least be evaluated. When a car sits
(especially outside) it tends to rot faster, the brake and clutch
systems rot from the inside out, the frame disintegrates (especially
if it is stored on dirt with covers over it). The owner of the car
that sits thinks because it doesn't accumulate any mileage it is
actually MORE valuable when the opposite is generally the case. When
you finally do get the sleeper running it is like old age catches up
all at once and everything lets go quickly.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see

To search the archives or view files, log in at
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: