From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2391
Date: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 4:32 PM


There are 8 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: In the Name of World Peace
From: "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>

2. Re: In the Name of World Peace
From: abatt10347_at_dml_aol.com

3. RE: Respect and Courtesy.
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

4. Re: In the Name of World Peace
From: Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com>

5. Re: Problems Installing Door Lock Actuators...Any Help?
From: tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com

6. Re: In the Name of World Peace
From: "endotex23" <endotex23_at_dml_yahoo.com>

7. RE: Re: Problems Installing Door Lock Actuators...Any Help?
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

8. Re: In the Name of World Peace
From: Hank <heskin_at_dml_gmail.com>





Message: 1
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 19:30:36 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: Re: In the Name of World Peace



Don't worry about it. It's just the normal "growing pains" that come 
with any public discussions. On the internet, or otherwise.

I know that it doesn't seem like it right now, but we really are 
discussing DeLorean information. As an example, part of the arguments 
right now are about mis-information being distributed. And by the 
time this is over, we'll have a compromise about filtering out 
inaccuracies. Plus, the forum also births social interactions, as 
well as technical information distribution. It's always bound to 
happen. Some of us will become great friends, and some of us may 
never see eye-to-eye. And in many cases, we can do all of this, 
without ever meeting in person!

In the end though, we'll all walk away with a bit wiser for the wear, 
even if we don't take an active participation in the arguments them 
selves. Arguments like these are natural, and eventually productive. 
Now fights on the other hand...

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, mrvideosawyer_at_dml_n... wrote:
> 
> I think we should just step back and take a deep breath here.  I 
will say if this list does not get back to what it is intended to do 
(help DeLorean owners fix their cars) then take me off the list.  
Plain and simple "This is stupid"
> Jim Sawyer 4149








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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 14:47:08 EST
From: abatt10347_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: In the Name of World Peace


Jim,
 I agree with you the intent of this list is to share information about our 
cars. But looking at this whole situation it seems to me that it has just 
proven what I have known all along. Delorean owners are an intelligent bunch. From 
marketing, to Internet sleuthing, to the advanced use of the English language. 
I concur with you that I would rather have information but you have to admit, 
it has been a very good soap opera for the last few weeks. With that said, I 
in no way am asking for flames or responses. I respect all and your opinions 
have been informative and entertaining. Remember buy the dream, drive the 
dream,live the dream.............................................
Bruce Battles
Vin #06569
MTARNDO


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 14:48:38 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: RE: Respect and Courtesy.


[MODERATOR NOTE:  This message approved with no alterations except the insertion  of this moderator note.  - moderator Mike Substelny]

Moderators please feel free to edit this message in any way you feel
appropriate. 

I have a suggestion: I think posts like the one attached, that do not
concern the majority of readers should be isolated to the individuals
concerned is such subjects, threads, discussions, etc.

The post below between the two individuals, who are engaged in a personal
discussion, should only be seen by those individuals.  

Thanks,
DMC Joe


-----Original Message-----
From: Marc Levy [mailto:malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 1:10 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Respect and Courtesy.



[MODERATOR NOTE:  This message pushes the edge of two rules, name calling
and hearsay, but in my opinion it does not cross the line.  Please be
polite, act like gentlemen and ladies, and do not quote non-DML messages on
the DML.  - moderator Mike Substelny]


> Moderator Mike, I don't see any name calling. Marc is just asking a 
> question and I'll be glad to give him an answer.

Ah, but your response DOES include name calling.

> Well Marc, since most of my posts occured after your "Sonny" sleuthing 
> you'd think any intelligent person would realize you could do the same 
> to anyone else. That would make me pretty dumb wouldn't it? Unless I 
> was hoping you'd stumble upon it. Now there is a crafty idea. I could 
> have changed my IP at anytime to avoid your little game. What is it in 
> this post? See the point? Perhaps it has something to do with you 
> playing Marc Levy, Internet Commando and Keeper Of The Faith. Why 
> don't you ask Sonny?

I think your statement above indicates that YOU are the one playing the
game.  Is this a Courtesy and Respectful use of the DML?

FWIW, when I read posts from "endotex23" I never even noticed that it was
not from "jetjock11".  Based on the posts alone, I assumed they came from
JetJock!  It was someone else who brought this to my attention.  I don't
know why that person did not "take credit" for it.

> So what is your point? I don't see the tone of my posts as being bad.

Then you need some 3rd party perspective.  Your posts as both endotex23 and
jetjock11 are always condescending.  If you want to offer good advice, go
ahead.  But are you doing it for our benefit or yours?
Talk about ego problems.. LOL!

> Is what I post wrong? Is it delivered in a disrespectful or 
> discourteous manner? Aren't I the one who suggested we all be nice?

You are disrespectful.  Even this post is disrespectful.  Don't you remember
a similar discussion on the DMC Forum about the tone of the
jetjock11 e-mails?

> Regardless of who I am why do you feel I'm using a false alias? Maybe 
> this checksix fellow was false, it's not uncommon for people to hide 
> their identity on the internet. Look at Sonny for example. If Sonny 
> didn't matter why should I? He had a hidden agenda to sell products.

Sonny's agenda may have been more obvious than yours..
but that does not mean you don't have one.

> What do you suppose my agenda is? To learn morals from you? I don't 
> sell anything Marc, I give it away free. I also respond to ID

Feed your own ego?  Make yourself feel better by putting others down?  I am
sure a psychiatrist would be better suited to try and explain your
motivation here.

> challenges. Maybe not the way you'd like so as to bolster your ego but

My ego?  I don't think so..  Again, I can't take credit for discovering that
endotex23 and jetjock11 use the same IP address, nor can I take credit for
noticing that a post which came from SonnyV was signed James Espey.  Maybe
because I am so controversial on this list, I become a magnet for people to
inform me of these things with hopes that I take it public.
Which I did, after verifying the facts.

> I respond nevertheless. For example why didn't you ask about this by 
> email? I think we all know the answer to that question.

Respond, sure.. But just with personal attacks on me. 
You did not answer my question. In your entire message you neither confirm
nor deny if endotex23 and
jetjock11 are the same person or not.

> Would you feel better if I left and returned under another name? It 
> would take me five seconds to do so (and with a different IP) but I'd 
> still be the same guy, whoever you think I am. I also apologize if I 
> don't live up to your standards of respect and courtesy. (People who

How about your real name?  What are you hiding from?  

> live in glass houses and all that. Of the posts I've

Have I been guilty of using multiple names on this (or
any) list?  Have I found fault with anything anyone has done that I have
done myself?  I don't think so.

> seen you strike
> me as less than a Carnegie graduate). I thought I

Is this supposed to be an insult?  Because it is a form of name calling..
Amazing how the moderators allowed your post.

I guess one would have to be a graduate or a fancy school to keep track of
which name to use with which alias.  How do you know when to sign a post
with "Greg" or "Gary"?

> was doing OK but
> I'll try to do better in the future. Until then take some advice: You 
> can't expect others to live up to your own moral standards or you'll 
> be sorely disappointed. Accept that as the way it is

No moral standards.. Just looking for "Respect and Courtesy" among the
members of the list.

> and spare me your
> lectures because you'll only be wasting your breath.

You first!  

> Try offering
> something useful to the group instead, assuming you can.

I may not offer too much technical advice because there are other members of
the list more qualified to do so.  I have no problem accepting that others
may know more than me on a great number of topics, however I don't suspect
you would ever do that.

More importantly, I never claim I am something which I am not..  But I have
lost count of the number of cars (DeLorean, and otherwise) that have found
their way to my garage for me to help out someone in need.

Speaking up for fraud and injustice is very useful. 
I'd like to the the masses appreciate it, because otherwise I am sure I
would have heard about it by now.  Although I appreciate all of the private
support, I do wish my supporters would be more vocal in public.

> Greg

Marc <- wow!  My REAL name, What a concept.

> By the way, are you the guy sending me hate mail?
> Stop.

Nope.  Can't say I have ever sent anyone "hate mail". 
But, nothing is anonymous on the Internet.  Your a smart guy, track it down!





To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com







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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 12:06:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: In the Name of World Peace


Moderators and others:

I know you don't like to post "me too" comments.  BUT,
I think you should know, that others are equally tired
of the personal exchanges that have been appearing on
the list of late.  

Frankly, I have not liked the tone of either of the
antagonists in this latest exchange, but that is just
a personal opinion.  Were I still a moderator, and I'm
glad I'm not in that thankless position anymore, I
would cut these exchanges off very quickly even if
they "don't cross the line".  They are not about
DeLorean  (the car)  or DeLorean (the man).

Dick Ryan
VIN 16867

--- mrvideosawyer_at_dml_netscape.net wrote:

> 
> 
> I think we should just step back and take a deep
> breath here.  I will say if this list does not get
> back to what it is intended to do (help DeLorean
> owners fix their cars) then take me off the list. 
> Plain and simple "This is stupid"
> Jim Sawyer 4149





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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 20:11:49 -0000
From: tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com
Subject: Re: Problems Installing Door Lock Actuators...Any Help?



Patrick - I am posting this for the benefit of the List.  I received 
your email regarding your challenges, and have sent you an extensive 
reply in order to help you sort through the possible issues.  As I 
stated in my reply, I believe the primary problem is with your door 
lock module.  It has probably been damaged by trying to pass too 
much current through as it attempted to feed those solenoids that 
you've removed.  A local owner had very similar problems, and a 
quick relay and capacitor replacement inside his DeLorean door lock 
module solved the problems completely.  Please let myself and the 
List know what you find out, so that everybody can benefit from your 
experience.  Thanks.

Toby Peterson  VIN 2248 "Winged1"
DeLorean Parts Northwest, LLC
www.delorean-parts.com  


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "p12c16" <PRC1216_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hey there all,
> I hope you had a good holiday.  I just got a set of DPNW's door
> lock actuators and attempted to install them yesterday in my 30 
degree garage.  Everything is hooked up exactly as the instructions 
stated, yet they still don't seem to perform much better than my 
solenoids that I thought were burned out.
<snip>  








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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 20:41:16 -0000
From: "endotex23" <endotex23_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: In the Name of World Peace



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, mrvideosawyer_at_dml_n... wrote:
> 
> I think we should just step back and take a deep breath here.  I
will say if this list does not get back to what it is intended to do
(help DeLorean owners fix their cars) then take me off the list. 
Plain and simple "This is stupid"
> Jim Sawyer 4149

Yes, I agree. I've gone back and looked at many of Marc's posts and I
agree in totem with his own statement. He is a controversial fellow
and I can understand why. Unfortunately his contoversies don't seem to
add anything to the list's value and serve only to clutter it. They do
provide some amusement in an indirect way however, moderator Mike's
not so subtle policing of "name calling" in regards to a recent
complaint of  Marc's for example. A little moderator humor there I
suspect.

I say we get back to what the list is for now that Marc has had his
turn (again) on the soapbox. I suggest he continue his contributions
to the list in his own special way and I'll do the same with mine.
We'll leave it up to others to decide the merits of each. After all,
that would be the courteous and respectful thing to do for the benefit
of the entire list.

Greg








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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 14:13:51 -0600
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Problems Installing Door Lock Actuators...Any Help?


There are 2 relay's mounted on the circuit board inside the small black door
lock module box. Most of the time the contacts are burned very bad and if
they are working they are doing it thru burnt contacts which wont pass much
if any current. The relay kits don't include then because the are not a plug
and play set up. Also I replace a blown diode in the box and cap's if
necessary. I use a 10 or 15 amps CB to prevent any future damage. Rebuild
with new relay's is $35.00. The information is on page 2 of the reference
material.
John Hervey
http://www.specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/reference-materials-2.html



-----Original Message-----
From: ryanpwright [mailto:yahoo1_at_dml_ryanwright.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 11:24 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: Problems Installing Door Lock Actuators...Any Help?





> Patrick,
> 
> First, get ahold of Toby. He stands by his products and will support you.
> 
> Second, I've been running my actuators from DPNW for quite awhile now
> (6 months? more?) without problems. Have you checked your door lock
> controller? It is more than likely damaged if it's original. You can
> rebuild it, pay John Hervey to rebuild it (I believe he does this),
> buy another (used or NOS if available), or buy a Lockzilla. No
> guarantee this will solve your problem, though.
> 
> Try the following: Hop in the car, close the doors and disconnect the
> new actuators from the door lock controller. Manually actuate each of
> them back & forth several times by touching the appropriate leads to a
> +12v source. If you aren't comfortable doing this, find a friend who is.
> 
> This will help you pinpoint the problem. If they work just fine, then
> you know the actuators and your door linkages are OK, and chances are
> good there is a problem with your lock controller. If they don't work
> properly, then the problem is in the actuators or the door linkage.
> 
> I hope this helps.
> 
> -Ryan

[long quote trimmed by moderator]





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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 16:04:16 -0500
From: Hank <heskin_at_dml_gmail.com>
Subject: Re: In the Name of World Peace


> I think we should just step back and take a deep breath here.  I will say if this list does not get back to what it is intended to do (help DeLorean owners fix their cars) then take me off the list.  

Jim, I totally agree, but I think you should have said "help DeLorean
owners ENJOY their cars (which occasionally might need a repair or
two)".

;)

-Hank





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