From: <>
To: <>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2394
Date: Thursday, December 30, 2004 7:18 PM

There are 12 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. RE: respect and courtesy
From: "darryl" <>

2. RE: Re: Door rod adjustment?
From: "DMC Joe" <>

3. AW: Delay interior light not working
From: "Elvis Nocita" <>

4. Re: Lotus Engine Conversion & More!
From: "therealdmcvegas" <>

5. Re: AC Dashboard Panel Removal
From: Martin Gutkowski <>

6. Re: Lotus Engine Conversion & More!
From: Marc Levy <>

7. Re: Re: Volvo F Series CO Values
From: Martin Gutkowski <>

8. Re: Lotus Engine Conversion & More!
From: "stitsien" <>

9. RE: Re: In the Name of World Peace
From: Dick Ryan <>

10. Re: Delay interior light not working
From: "Jim Reeve" <>

11. Re: Delay interior light not working
From: "John Chapelhow" <>

12. Re: Replacing Instrument Cluster Needles - Questions
From: "Jim Reeve" <>

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:32:54 -0800
From: "darryl" <>
Subject: RE: respect and courtesy

<<Although I appreciate all of the private support, I do wish my supporters would be more vocal in public.>>

Marc, for what it's worth I agree with what you are saying, but I think a lot of readers aren't getting the point.  I think many of us, especially old timers, have a problem with anonymous posters - when posters are not willing to use their real name they don't have to be accountable for what they say.  It abets those with overblown egos, at the expense of respect and common courtesy.  If they are going to make public statements, whether technical help or complaints, they should have the guts to put their name on it.  As usual, Gary "IN2TIME" hit the nail on the head.  Whether or not "Greg/endotex" and "Gary/jetjock/checksix" are the same person, they have the same attitude which detracts from the usually valid points they offer.  I don't know about the rest of you, but I give no weight to anonymous posts.  Dave T., Dave S., Toby, Joe, and yes Marc have built reliable reputations by signing their posts, as have most others on this list.  Of course with a few it has had a negative effect (anyone remember the post about novice mechanics not needing a fire extinguisher when working on the fuel system?), but that's a subject for another time.  

As for the "Sonny V" postings, and the DMCH admission that they were done intentionally, that classless act goes way beyond "business promotion".  Why would a business that has no competitors (all of the "approved" vendors buy from them at a small discount) need to resort to deception to build up sales?  Even though Stephen was a D1 protégé I think we all inherently expected more from him.  I suspect maybe "Sonny" is leading him astray....  But who besides Marc will say anything when the next time they need some rare part they may find out it's "no longer available"?  (Marc, where do you get your parts?)

Once my last DeLorean is sold I may have a lot more to add to this subject.  Or I may just fade away.
[Moderators, feel free to add a tacky critique to this message (should it actually get posted) like you did to Marc's 12/28 post.  Was that really necessary?]

Darryl Tinnerstet
McCleary, WA


Message: 2
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 02:22:07 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <>
Subject: RE: Re: Door rod adjustment?


Some of your information is correct but I strongly disagree with your
suggestion of adjusting the STRIKER PINS part#110068 which I believe you
refer to as "anchor pins". The owner, Duke, indicated that door operates
correctly from inside the car which indicates that the problem is not
related to the striker pins. 

I emphasize this point because it is not advisable to suggest a striker pin
adjustment unless you are absolutely certain that this is the cause of the
problem. As you well know improper striker pin adjustments can cause serious
problems ranging from door jams to damage to the door latch assembly. 

Check my earlier post for the adjustment that is associated with the
original exterior door opening problem.

DMC Joe                    

-----Original Message-----
From: David Teitelbaum [] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 4:31 PM
Subject: [DML] Re: Door rod adjustment?

Generally there is not any one particular rod out of adjustment. I usually
see where you have to tweak everything. When everything is only slightly off
it all seems to add up and cause problems. The "best" plan-of-attack is to
just go over ALL of the adjustments including the anchor pins. Anyway, when
you start adjusting things some adjustments affect others so you really need
to do them all and in the order in the Workshop Manual. Do all the internal
door adjustments and then do the anchor pins. Take your time and try to
really get it *right*. You will see a big difference between a door that
closes when you slam it and one that closes correctly. If you do it right
you should not be able to lock it unless it is fully closed on both locks in
the 2nd locking position. You also won't be banging on the anchor pins when
you close the door, they should glide right into the middle of the lock
without hitting the guides or the door, or the ends of the pins. It takes a
lot of trial-and-error to get it right (at least for the first time). Be
careful inside the door on all the exposed, sharp edges.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


"I've been having a slight problem out of my passenger side door.  Sometimes
I have a problem with it opening from the outside.  It seems to open fine
from the inside, just the outside has a problem.  It seems to hang more
towards the front of the car.  The back will, most of the time, start to
open, but gets hung up on the front side.  Could anyone tell me exactly what
rod to adjust to help solve this problem?"

Thanks for any help! 



Message: 3
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 09:40:21 +0100
From: "Elvis Nocita" <>
Subject: AW: Delay interior light not working

Duke, no, the rear lights have nothing to do with the interior light delay.

It's the white relay-housing.
To say it in first place - it s..ks !
That's a typical example for early 80s electronics. Cheap and maybe
working. maybe.
Normally it only works correctly if you open and close the door (switch)
within a few seconds. If it was open for too long the capacitor in the
is already discharged and the delay function is over (like 15 seconds ?!?).
this means - the time starts with the opening of the door !

I've seen it in several cars, that BOTH interior lamps must be on
to make that module work correctly.(or it may stay on dimmed !)
I couldn't believe this was the function they built, but then I
redrew the schematic....

If it doesn't work at all on your car - don't bother with it, it isn't
worth it ! Not the original module at least.


> I've got another question about the delay setup of the interior lights.  My
> door lights work fine and the cabin light works but the delay feature
> doesn't work.  I was looking at the wiring diagram and it shows a relay but
> I'm not quite sure what relay that is in the electrical compartment.  Also,
> I don't have my rear light hooked up.  Could this possibly cause the delay
> feature not to work or could the relay or something else be causing this
> problem?
> Thanks!
> Duke


Message: 4
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 09:11:12 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <>
Subject: Re: Lotus Engine Conversion & More!

A-ha! I've heard from co-workers about a DeLorean around the west side of town with 
"star" shaped wheels, and a licence plate from New Mexico with "RUN DMC". And now, I 
have a better idea of whom this is.

The only thing missing is Robert's e-mail address. If you're a member of the DML, and you 
read this (or if you can pass a message along, Tamir), please e-mail me back, or post to 
the list. I have something important about your car that I'd like to ask you about.

vin 6585 "X"


Message: 5
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:55:43 +0000
From: Martin Gutkowski <>
Subject: Re: AC Dashboard Panel Removal

It's more likely that the bulbs have just fallen out of the back of the 
panel - esp if they worked fine before you took your car in.


secret_jedi_guy wrote:

>Hi,  I recently replaced the radio in my Delorean and had it 
>installed at the store.  While they were installing it they called 
>me into the install bay to tell me that 3 of the AC panel back 
>lights burned out.  They also said that the automatic gear shift 
>light was burned out.  I did not see how they took off the AC panel 
>so I don't know how without breaking one of the knobs.  How do I get 
>it off so I can replace the bulbs?
>Thanks everybody,
>Japheth VIN: 1223


Message: 6
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 06:15:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Marc Levy <>
Subject: Re: Lotus Engine Conversion & More!

Great job Tamir..  Your site continues to be the best
collection of information about DeLoreans on the web.

My only comment is, why REAL media?! and Why Zipped?! 

--- ardont <> wrote:

> Hi All,
> I don't usually write in to talk about updates, but
> I have added a 


Message: 7
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 16:11:23 +0000
From: Martin Gutkowski <>
Subject: Re: Re: Volvo F Series CO Values

>>FYI under warm-up conditions, lambda sensor disconnected, and, 
>>crucially, *when the full throttle microswitch is pressed* all have 
>>exactly the same effect, electrically speaking. This assumes your
>full throttle switch is working.<
>First Martin, thanks for the kind words. I don't quite follow the
>above statement. 
My point is a simple one. If you want to play with the lambda system in 
open-loop, it's much easier to just press the full throttle switch than 
to disconnect the lambda sensor.

>>However, I have to stick up for Bill here - all the B28F's I've ever
>put on an analyser with lambda system working work at around 1% CO.<
>You need to expand on what you mean by the lambda "working". It
>"works" in several modes. Open loop alone, open loop with coolant (or
>WOT) switch closed, closed loop with hot O2 sensor alone, closed loop
>with WOT switch closed, ect. The CO should be set at 1% with the
>engine warm and the O2 sensor disconected. The reason for this is the
>CO must be set to a level where it will be within range of the ability
>of the Lambda to reduce it further downward when operating in closed
Yes, and in my situation, I can put a gas analyser strait up the exhaust 
pipe of a car with no cat, but still running lambda. And I am bright 
enough to do it when it's working in closed loop. In this situation, the 
engine runs at, or about 1% CO. Attempting to adjust this makes the 
lambda system "fight" you, and it only changes once you reach 100% or 0% 
duty cxycle on the freuqncy valve's PWM.

I think you'r suggesting the gas analyser should not read 1% CO when 
measured at the exhaust pipe on a catted car, in which case you're 
correct. However, Bill is still correct, as am I about measuring the CO 
at 1%, because I know it to be true, being able to easily measure the CO 
at the exhaust pipe -without- a cat. The DeLorean manual does not 
mention the exhaust taps, nor any instructions for using them, but they 
are there. Renault, on the other hand, and I assume the same in Bill's 
Volvo manual, DO talk about using them - ie measuring the CO level 
up-stream of the cat.

>The lambda controller is programed to detect a "bad" sensor and
>output a default fixed duty cycle to the frequency valve. That's the
>entire reason the manual states the CO must be set with the sensor
Yes, but it's got much more to do with the warm-up cycle because with 
the lambda system working, you can set the mixture to a healthy 1%  but 
if it's achieving this by lowering the mixture dynamically, this will 
make cold-start excessively rich and difficult if not impossible to 
start. This happens every day. The lambda sensor fails much less often...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 8
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 16:24:30 -0000
From: "stitsien" <>
Subject: Re: Lotus Engine Conversion & More!

This has to be one of the coolest engine conversions I've ever 
seen :) Thanks Tamir and especially to Robert for all the hard work 
doing something original and documenting it!

Matt Stits
Vin 0789 Currently for sale.
--- In, "ardont" <tamir_at_dml_e...> wrote:
> Hi All,
> I don't usually write in to talk about updates, but I have added a 
> section on a new engine conversion that everyone will want to see.  
> A full engine conversion to a Lotus Twin Turbo V8, very impressive 
> stuff.  You can see it under the Custom D's section of my site.  
> Also added in this update is the full Pigeon Forge update, which 
> many personal interviews with some of the key speakers and much 
> more.  
> More updates will be going up in the next few weeks, so keep on 
> stopping by to get your DeLorean fix. :)
> Regards,


Message: 9
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 09:44:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Dick Ryan <>
Subject: RE: Re: In the Name of World Peace

I have been on this list almost since Day 1.  For 4
years I was one of the moderators.  I cannot recall a
single instance of "retaliation" from postings on this

There was a situation some time ago revolving around
list members who paid another list member for
something and then had a VERY long wait to get what
they paid for.  During that situation there were some
pretty harsh words and a couple of threats of "legal
action", but no "retaliation".  

If one means getting his/her messages turned down,
that certainly is not retaliation unless every single
message is turned down and I don't believe that has
happened.  Trust me, I've had several messages
rejected since I left the moderator position. 
Frankly, on review I felt that the rejection was
usually justified.  And, when not, I reworded it and
got the post through.

This should not be construed as a comment upon the
merits of the current situation.  I've expressed my
views about it on the list, ONCE, and I don't intend
to be argumentative.

Further comments on something that has gone on as long
as this should, I believe, be resolved by off list
correspondence.  For example, Marc and I have done
just that on this very subject.  We disagree, but we
respect each others right to disagree.

Can we move on?

Dick Ryan
VIN 16867

--- Timnagin <> wrote:

Some people decide not to say anything based on fear
of retaliation.


Message: 10
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 19:07:02 -0000
From: "Jim Reeve" <>
Subject: Re: Delay interior light not working

The light delay module is the white box in with your relays.  It isn't
technically a relay.  How long are you leaving the door open before
closing it and checking for the delay?  The original module is flukey
in that is starts the delay count from when you open your door instead
of closing it.  Leave you door open for too long, you get no delay.
But if you open the door then close it 2 seconds later you should have
at least 10-15 seconds of delay time.  Not having the rear light
hooked up should not affect this at all.

Jim Reeve

--- In, "William Bladorn" <at88mph_at_dml_w...> wrote:
> I've got another question about the delay setup of the interior
lights.  My 
> door lights work fine and the cabin light works but the delay feature 
> doesn't work.  I was looking at the wiring diagram and it shows a
relay but 
> I'm not quite sure what relay that is in the electrical compartment.
> I don't have my rear light hooked up.  Could this possibly cause the
> feature not to work or could the relay or something else be causing
> problem?
> Thanks!
> Duke


Message: 11
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 19:10:26 -0000
From: "John Chapelhow" <>
Subject: Re: Delay interior light not working


It may be a very simple wiring issue within the light/switch module 

It is possible to accidently wire the switches so that the 'on' 
function works but the delay doesn't...

Once the switch module has been prised gently from the roof you 
should have 3 wires; black, purple, purple/white. The module itself 
has three connectors which should be cleaned whilst accessible.

The purple wire is the 'live' and should be connected to the side 
with the single pin.

The side with the two pins can be wired either way, allowing you to 
decide which way to push for manual/auto lights.
The black wire is the manual 'on' wire. 
The purple/white is the connector which allows the courtesy circuit 
to work.

In my case the black wire had been placed onto the single pin, 
meaning only the 'manual on' function worked.

John Chapelhow
MMG 287W : 'Boeing' #0737


Message: 12
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 19:19:22 -0000
From: "Jim Reeve" <>
Subject: Re: Replacing Instrument Cluster Needles - Questions

I tried looking into making backlit faceplates for the instrument
cluster 4 years ago.  I was not impressed in EL at the time and still
think it isn't the best. (I reasearched lots of options).  One of the
biggest difficulties I could never overcome was getting good needles.
 There simply wasn't anything remotely similar to the DeLorean's in
backlit form.  Some Saturns and Land Rovers have needles very similar,
but their dashes are overhead lit like the DeLorean's, not backlit. 
I'm curious how much light you going to get out of the needles as
well.  Another problem is the EL doesn't project very much light, and
the kits I've seen do not have any illuminated portion at the hole for
the needles.  Since the DeLorean has no lights back there (except one
for faintly lighting the odometer) your translucent needles will not glow.

Also, if you have difficulty aligning the needles correctly when you
put them on, let me know.  I developed a procedure to guarantee
everything goes back on correctly when reinstalling them.

Jim Reeve

--- In, "gzapf" <x86Daddy_at_dml_m...> wrote:
> One of my upcoming projects is to install a new EL backlit dash
> (ordered from SpeedHut who began selling after the last distributor
> stopped).  One of the things I'd like to attempt as well is to replace
> the needles with the more modern translucent plastic variety.
> I've recently acquired all the parts I want to install in the
> binnacle, but I'd like to hear if anyone else has replaced the needles
> in their instrument cluster.  Any tricks to it or special concerns? 
> With the new ones I bought, I don't know yet if I'll have to expand
> their holes or fill them in some, but I imagine hot glue will suffice
> for filling such space if needed... does anyone know if this would /
> wouldn't work out for a particular reason?
> Also, the new needles I have are the deep orange type you see on
> almost every modern instrument cluster.  I got them from SpeedHut when
> I ordered the dash kit.  I'd actually prefer frosty white or yellow,
> but had a hard enough time finding these (not a normal SpeedHut item;
> haven't seen needles online... oh, don't search for "guage needles" if
> you're not prepared to see interesting things).  If someone does know
> where to get other colors, I'd be much obliged.
> Thanks,
> --Greg
> #2894


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