From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2429
Date: Sunday, January 16, 2005 6:51 PM


There are 8 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Throttle cable routing
From: "Jake Kamphoefner" <jakekamp_at_dml_sbcglobal.net>

2. Re: DMC to be in a new PS2 game
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

3. Re: DMC to be in a new PS2 game
From: "alex morgan" <mauibarber_at_dml_hotmail.com>

4. Re: Re: DCS 2006
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

5. Followup to car in Manteca, CA
From: "istewart88" <istewart88_at_dml_yahoo.com>

6. Re: Re: Carburator.
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net

7. Re: Re: Carburator.
From: Peter Lucas <lucas_at_dml_Maya.com>

8. Re: DMC nation of origin Was: DMC to be in a new PS2 game
From: Jon Heese <dmcnews_at_dml_jonheese.com>





Message: 1
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 12:51:14 -0600
From: "Jake Kamphoefner" <jakekamp_at_dml_sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Throttle cable routing



I agree with Dave.   Also, you may need to look at the long, brass-colored 
bolt in the driver's footwell that the pedal mechanism rests on at the top 
of its travel (difficult to describe, but it's obvious when you see it). 
That bolt can be adjusted to set the initial depth of your gas pedal, and 
give you more travel with it.

Just make sure when you adjust your cable that pushing the pedal to the 
floor doesn't over stress the cable, throttle spool, and WOT switch. 
Naturally, it should just reach the WOT position when you've got the pedal 
to the metal.

Jake Kamphoefner
1063

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Sontos" <dsontos_at_dml_verizon.net>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 7:10 AM
Subject: [DML] Throttle cable routing


>
>
> By the picture it looks like your cable IS routed correctly. The top mount
> is for the Automatic transmission downshift cable.
>
> Dave Sontos
> Vin 02573
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stainlessilusion [mailto:5n-_at_dml_gmx.net]
> Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 9:26 PM
> To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [DML] More problems found (was Piston rings + sleeves)
>
> Now that the car is in the garage and defrosting, I'll be able to
> check everything tomorrow-tonight I just did some more checking around
> and discovered something else... with my gas pedal down all the way,
> the assembly on the engine doesnt open all the way, in fact, it is
> more then an inch away from the full throttle switch! I've gone over a
> few photos and see that the cable is routed differently but I can't
> find the correct routing anywhere in the book. There seems to be 2
> places to screw the cable into, mine is screwed into the back bottom
> spot obviously instead of the top...I've uploaded a picture to show
> how far it was opening...and to imagine-I was driving this car like
> this for months! wonder what it will be like once it is able to
> operate correctly. Anyone know where to find the correct routing??
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see 
> www.dmcnews.com
>
> To search the archives or view files, log in at 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 






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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 15:10:14 EST
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: DMC to be in a new PS2 game


In a message dated 1/16/05 9:51:16 AM Central Standard Time, 
ttanaka504_at_dml_aol.com writes:


>    This game is really nice to know about cars. I can simulate my D 
> for how I am going to modify. 

LOL sorry but I wouldn't base my purchasing decisions on upgrades for a car 
based on how the car performed in a video game on a simulated race track with 
various options!!!!!!!!!!!  No matter how good the game is at recreating 
everything, there a million other variable not taken into account; durability, 
actual fit, engineering quality when taken as a whole, not to mention driver error 
or other human elements.

It's only a game, man! It has nothing to do with real life.

Andy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 21:35:55 +0000
From: "alex morgan" <mauibarber_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: DMC to be in a new PS2 game


So if I understand what your saying, then we would now consider Dodge and 
Chrysler to be European cars?  Because they are owned by Daimler Chrysler, 
they would be manufactured by a British company and as such be considered 
European cars?
Weren't there DMC offices in Europe as well?  I am also curious why you 
discount the funding source. I thought something like 3/4 of the money came 
from the British governement.  And it wasn't the U.S. that shut down the 
company, it was the brits.  Maybe I dont have my facts straight but I 
thought for sure that the british goverment owned a clear majority of the 
Delorean motor company.  I know that towards the end of 1982 JZD tried to 
hand over all his remaining rights to the DMC and they (brit gov) wouldnt 
take it.  If its an American company why would he hand over the remaing 
stock to the british goverment?  I believe if DMC was based in the US but a 
foreign entity owned the majority of the company it would not make it 
american.  The question is WHO IS THE DELOREAN MOTOR COMPANY?

""DeLorean Motor Company (or at least some reflexive affiliate)
>manufactured the car, and DMC was based in the US, so the car is an
>American car, by all standards.""

I would love to hear some more opinions about this.  I don't believe it to 
be an open and shut case.

>From: Jon Heese <dmcnews_at_dml_jonheese.com>
>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [DML] DMC to be in a new PS2 game
>Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 02:37:32 -0500
>
>
>
>It really isn't a matter of opinion.  If a car is manufactured by an
>American company, it is an American car.  It really has nothing to do
>with where it is assembled or sourced, and even less to do with where
>the founder of the company resided or where the profits "went" to.
>
>You make a logical fallacy by discounting the Toyota comparison.  No one
>said that Toyotas are Japanese because they are built in America or that
>all of them are built in America. They said that they are Japanese *in
>spite* of the fact that some were built in America.
>
>DeLorean Motor Company (or at least some reflexive affiliate)
>manufactured the car, and DMC was based in the US, so the car is an
>American car, by all standards.
>
>Regards,
>Jon Heese
>
>alex morgan wrote:
> >
> > In my opinion I would consider it a british car.  Built in Ireland, 
>Funded
> > by Europe, European engine, and Italian designed.  Because JZD lived in 
>the
> > USA and had his main office there to me doesn't make it an American car. 
>  I
> > don't think the toyota argument stands up.  Because toyotas are ALSO 
>made in
> > Japan and Canada (and were exclusivly built in Japan for the first 20 
>years
> > or so.)  The cars were imported from Europe and the majority of 
>wholesale
> > profits went (or were supposed to go) to the Irish government. Just my
> > opinion.
> > Alex
> >
> >>From: Murray Fisher <murrayfw_at_dml_charter.net>
> >>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> >>To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> >>Subject: Re: [DML] DMC to be in a new PS2 game
> >>Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 16:08:25 -0800
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>I have a hardback book entitled "Motor Makers in Ireland" by John
> >>Moore.   From Page 93 to page 103, they all claim the car was made in

>







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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 16:37:14 EST
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: DCS 2006


This message that appeared on the DML and DMC forum is a bit premature  since 
I am still negotiating the contract for Pheasant run.
The basic story is the Vette people had the last weekend of the month  
scheduled but Pheasant run leased it out to a jewelry convention prior to them  
signing the contract,  Ed from the Bloomington show asked if we could do a  joint 
show and we are looking at it.
There are advantages and disadvantages but bottom line is it looks like I  
get more room in a newer facility so we are considering it very carefully.  
 
Below is Bobs message
 
 ---------------------------------------------------
>In a message dated 1/16/2005 10:56:29 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
>BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com writes:

>As many  of you know,  I would love to see some DeLoreans kick the ass 
>of  their nemesis the corvette at DCS 2006.

>We were originally planning to  do this by competing against the vettes 
>on there own slalom course.   However, the latest info is that they 
>don't allow ANY other brand or type  of car on this course.

>(Gee, a reflection of the ego - snob appeal of  this group?)
>
Personally I do not care to go this direction.  We have been working  very 
well with the vette people so far and it is far from a done deal.   Negatives do 
generate negatives so lets work to make this a good joint effort if  it does. 
 Personally I  would like to see the Bloomington show as it  is a good size 
event and the two combined can be a real killer event for  both.
----------------------------------
>Worse, yet,  it appears the corvette group which will be  some 10,000 
>people including vendors and visitors will be taking away any  spare 
>parking places where we could have set up our own slalom  course.
 ---------------------------
We are going to use the new convention center across the street that is  
brand new and we will have plenty of space that is paved and grass instead of  
gravel.  I still plan a slalom or test your skills course nothing changed  there. 

 We have not talked to the Corvette people on this since we have our  own 
space. Privately we discussed this but I do not think anyone including  myself 
has talked to the Vette people on it.  We may at a later date.
 
If Bob can spearhead a run to route 66 track or Byron raceway we can do  that 
and I will be glad to put him in charge.  
 
The Vette people I learned cannot allow others on the track for  insurance.  
Rich and Dave were informed of this on the meeting that I was  snowed out of.

>I am not  happy about this and fear will be overwelmed by  the vette 
>people and traffic.  We won't even get the convention  center until 
>Friday PM because the vette people are having their tech  session in OUR 
>convention center that AM.   IT isn't enough they  get the huge 
>convention center where were supposed to be,  Now they  are taking over 
>the smaller one.
--------------------------------

We will begin activities like every other show on Friday this time at 3  
instead of the usual 4 PM and this is where we will be doing our car line up by  
vin. We are being given the convention center on Friday as compensation for the 
inconvenience as I am not paying for this day's rental.  That is something  
we normally could not afford.
The facility will be ready for us when we need it as we have the driving  
tour in the morning.
-----------------------

>What I really need to know is how many of you are interested in  a 
>slalom race course and would it be worth it change the date of DCS 2006  
>by a week or so, so we would have room for such an  event?
----------------------
 
There is no change of date it will be canceled before I will change  it.
----------------------
>Personally,  this slalom event was going to be the big think  for me at 
>DCS,  other than the car show.  THere are so many  members who are 
>really making their Ds into performance handling machines  and I want 
>them to be able to show the rest the D owners and the car  community 
>that this car would really have turned into a vette killer.

----------------------

Again Bob you are welcome to arrange a session at the race track as we will  
also have a Slalom.  the Slalom will emphasize the handling and not speed  as 
to keep from having any mishaps  We will do something to compare stock  and 
aftermarket suspensions so maybe we can see the difference for real instead  of 
just hearing about it. TBD
 
I am still working on the show so give it a chance
We have added a whole lot of new stuff to the show including working out  
details to see the Prototype 1 D I talked to the new owner and he is committed  
to getting the car to the show and again this is a TBD and is a bit premature 
to  go into details.
 
I appreciate the concerns Bob Has but as I have talked to him since this  
post every show has concerns and if you let the details get in the way of the  
Global show you will not have a show.  Bob will be working on the Slalom  course 
and other events at the show with the help of the Chicago group.
 
I appreciate Bob and all he has done for me over the years and yes we are  
good friends and his help is appreciated.  We also love to debate and have  
different ideas from time to time and this today was one of them but all is  well.
This keeps the checks and balances there so thanks Bob for your  input.
 
The announcement that we are doing a show with the vette people is still a  
bit premature but I think it will happen and I look forward to bringing these  
two groups together.
It is up to us to show them how much class and good will we represent as  
this will be our time to shine so to speak
 
I announced this to the DCO group this weekend and they liked what they  
heard.
 
One nice thing is that for our elder or needy members we will have a  shuttle 
or golf carts to get our senior owners around the show and to the hotel.  
This is still being worked on but looks to be workable.
 
I will update you when something real on the show happens.
 
Rich suggested that we set up some of vendors on Friday 
I have no problem with this and I will leave it up to the vendors.
The room will be there Friday so vendors look to be able to set up.
 
Ken
DeLorean Car Show Inc. 
 
ps Greg can you post this on the DMC forum thanks





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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 23:04:26 -0000
From: "istewart88" <istewart88_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Followup to car in Manteca, CA



This car: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&category=31830&item=4519340074&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

I went and looked today. It runs, alright, and the owner said he was able to get it into first 
and second gear, so it probably is a shift linkage in need of adjustment. There are an 
awful lot of dings, though, and the passenger front fender had been replaced from the 
parts car he had on eBay earlier. He didn't know why it had a salvage title, and apparently 
it had been totally torn up when he got it. He replaced basically the entire interior and 
made the engine run again. No smog certificate, tho, so likely some work left to be done 
there. It also had a coolant leak which he didn't mention in the auction, but he had the 
hoses and said he would replace them tomorrow. I would be worried about the radiator, 
however. It also smelled kinda funny on the inside, the normal 80's car smell but with a 
touch of rancid, so dmcvegas' worries about a flood car might be valid. Either that or it 
just sat outside for a really long time. Didn't seem like there was much frame rust that I 
could see.

Overall, I'm sure that in the hands of an experienced DeLorean mechanic, this car could be 
made nearly perfect. Time and resources are needed to make a lot of the detail fixes that 
seem to be necessary. I've got the time, but not the resources at the moment. For me, it's 
probably just a nightmare waiting to happen. I'll just have to keep looking...

Ian








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Message: 6
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 23:59:56 +0000
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: Re: Carburator.


There is additional risk for cars in locations with smog checks.
Putting carbs on an originally fuel injected car is an automatic
inspection failure.  

--
Mike


-------------- Original message from "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>: -------------- 


> 
> 
> 
> All this talk about going BACKWARDS is quaint. Carbureation is OLD 
> TECHNOLOGY. If anything we should be experimenting with EFI and full 
> engine management. As advanced as K Jetronic was in it's time, it was 
> a continuous system. The future went to pulsed injection so K-Jet is 
> only a small step above carburaters anyway. Just about all automakers 
> have gone to full engine management to improve driveability, 
> reliablity, emmisions, and performance. Aside from the expense of 
> doing it, it sounds like a winning combination. No more distributer, 
> more tolerant of blended gas, no problems with extreme hot, cold, 
> altitude, in short it will run like a modern car! Right now the engine 
> has 3 black boxes to keep it running (ignition, Lambda, and idle), 4 
> if you include voltage regulation. 5 if you have an automatic. All 
> that could be put into one and all functions integrated and fully 
> adjustable. It would be a monuemental job but I am sure the right 
> person could do it! Now THAT would be interesting, not some carburator 
> bolted onto a manifold! Just think, you could incorporate the cooling 
> fans (aka Fanzilla or whatever) the door locks, remote entry, the 
> wiper delay module, the interior lighting delay, and on, and on. That 
> electronic dashboard now would incorporate all of these signals and 
> more. With a small plasma display you could have all kinds of 
> messages. Now we are talking FUTURE!!! 
> David Teitelbaum 
> vin 10757 
> 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 7
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 19:26:32 -0500
From: Peter Lucas <lucas_at_dml_Maya.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Carburator.



On Jan 16, 2005, at 1:13 PM, David Teitelbaum wrote:

> Just think, you could incorporate the cooling
> fans (aka Fanzilla or whatever) the door locks, remote entry, the
> wiper delay module, the interior lighting delay, and on, and on.

Not to mention multiple redundant temperature sensors, spark advance, 
all that electro-mechanical-vacuum logic (replete with solenoid valves, 
vacuum delay units, etc) and so on.  I've been pipe-dreaming about an 
open-source project like this for years.  I have to admit, though, that 
I am torn--keeping the D's engine working the way God intended it has 
its own appeal.

I once tried to convince some of the well-known players in the 
"DeLorean aftermarket electronics" game of the merits of an open 
architecture that would permit mix-and-matching of add-on electronics, 
but not too surprisingly, there was little enthusiasm. It would be a 
lot of work, and somebody technical would have to be quite committed in 
the role of main architect (and most of those people are busy these 
days).  So, how many embedded systems programmers do we have on the 
list?

-Pete






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Message: 8
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 19:27:48 -0500
From: Jon Heese <dmcnews_at_dml_jonheese.com>
Subject: Re: DMC nation of origin Was: DMC to be in a new PS2 game


In answer to your question about Daimler-Chrysler, that's a great case 
where the lines are blurred due only to the fact that Chrysler was an 
American company for so long.  When it merged with Daimler, I remember a 
lot of people asking that same question.  I think it comes down to the 
reason for classifying the national heritage of a car.  In our case, 
it's a matter of grouping video game cars together by a common thread. 
I would wager a guess that the overwhelming majority of people who care 
would consider any Chrysler product an American car in this setting, 
just because it's much more comfortable to do so and there's no real 
harm in the misclassification by technicality.  Obviously, if we were 
asking for tax or legal purposes, it would have to be considered more 
seriously.

This next part is partially my opinion:

The only case where I would consider the source of funding a factor in 
this matter is if the government in question financed 100% of the 
venture, making the car manufacturer not only based in the country, but 
making the government itself the effective manufacturer of the car.  In 
the case of DMC, there were many private financiers too, and there is no 
clearly obvious way to determine the car's nation of origin based on 
that (a geographic average of each financier's headquarters?)  I just 
think it's a grey area in the convention, and as such, might just as 
well be discounted as needless complications.

If I understand the story correctly, the British government had no 
financial ownership of DMC at its inception.  By 1982, I think they 
controlled the company.  So, by your logic, does this mean that the 
early and late model DMC-12's have different nations of origins?  Again, 
we have to ask why we care, and what factors are important in the realm.

I do agree that it really isn't an open and shut case, and I'd be 
interested to hear everyone's opinion as well.

Regards,
Jon Heese

alex morgan wrote:
> 
> So if I understand what your saying, then we would now consider Dodge and 
> Chrysler to be European cars?  Because they are owned by Daimler Chrysler, 
> they would be manufactured by a British company and as such be considered 
> European cars?
> Weren't there DMC offices in Europe as well?  I am also curious why you 
> discount the funding source. I thought something like 3/4 of the money came 
> from the British governement.  And it wasn't the U.S. that shut down the 
> company, it was the brits.  Maybe I dont have my facts straight but I 
> thought for sure that the british goverment owned a clear majority of the 
> Delorean motor company.  I know that towards the end of 1982 JZD tried to 
> hand over all his remaining rights to the DMC and they (brit gov) wouldnt 
> take it.  If its an American company why would he hand over the remaing 
> stock to the british goverment?  I believe if DMC was based in the US but a 
> foreign entity owned the majority of the company it would not make it 
> american.  The question is WHO IS THE DELOREAN MOTOR COMPANY?
> 
> ""DeLorean Motor Company (or at least some reflexive affiliate)
> 
>>manufactured the car, and DMC was based in the US, so the car is an
>>American car, by all standards.""
> 
> 
> I would love to hear some more opinions about this.  I don't believe it to 
> be an open and shut case.





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