From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2430
Date: Monday, January 17, 2005 11:45 AM


There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: DMC nation of origin Was: DMC to be in
From: "dmcorlando2003" <SundeQuick_at_dml_aol.com>

2. Re: DMC nation of origin Was: DMC to be in
From: "alex morgan" <mauibarber_at_dml_hotmail.com>

3. Re: Re: Carburetor
From: Steve Stankiewicz <protodelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>

4. RE: Re: Carburator.
From: "alex morgan" <mauibarber_at_dml_hotmail.com>

5. Re: DMC nation of origin Was: DMC to be in
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

6. Re: Carburator.
From: "endotex23" <endotex23_at_dml_yahoo.com>

7. Re: Re: door trouble...
From: mike clemens <rmclemns_at_dml_yahoo.com>

8. Re: Re: Carburator.
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

9. DCS 2006 Engine rebuild contest
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

10. Re: Re: door trouble...
From: "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>

11. re: B230 engine - this may be a stupid question, but....
From: " Toscano" <toscano2_at_dml_ix.netcom.com>

12. Re: door trouble...
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>

13. Re: Carburator (David T)
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

14. Re: DMC to be in a new PS2 game
From: ttanaka504_at_dml_aol.com

15. AW: DMC to be in a new PS2 game
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>

16. Re: Carburator.
From: "endotex23" <endotex23_at_dml_yahoo.com>

17. Re: Carburator.
From: nicholden_at_dml_yahoo.com

18. Re: More problems found (was Piston rings + sleeves)
From: "stainlessilusion" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>

19. RE: re: B230 engine - this may be a stupid question, but....
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

20. Re: Re: door trouble...
From: Chris Shepherd <chrisau79_at_dml_yahoo.com>

21. Re: DCS 2006 Engine rebuild contest
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

22. DeLorean Owners in Ireland website!
From: dmcjohn_at_dml_hotmail.com

23. Sighting: Crank Yankers (Comedy Central)
From: toscano2_at_dml_ix.netcom.com

24. DMC US, Irish or British Built?
From: "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_mchsi.com>

25. Re: DMC nation of origin Was: DMC to be in
From: Peter Lucas <lucas_at_dml_Maya.com>





Message: 1
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 00:39:09 -0000
From: "dmcorlando2003" <SundeQuick_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: DMC nation of origin Was: DMC to be in


The Delorean is an American car that was produced in Ireland.  The 
company was based in the United States.  Whether otr not the British 
government financed 1% or 100% it does not show ownership of the 
company.  

MIchael Q
VIN #02944








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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 2
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 00:55:19 +0000
From: "alex morgan" <mauibarber_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: DMC nation of origin Was: DMC to be in


I agree with you that it really doesn't make any difference if it is 
American or British or both.  I just think its an interesting debate.  In 
fact I think it would be safe to say that maybe it is a American/British 
hybrid.  This is a prime example of how great it would be if JZD frequented 
these boards.  I don't know if that question (is the DMC american or 
british) has ever been asked of him?

>From: Jon Heese <dmcnews_at_dml_jonheese.com>
>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [DML] DMC nation of origin  Was: DMC to be in a new PS2 game
>Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 19:27:48 -0500
>
>
>
>In answer to your question about Daimler-Chrysler, that's a great case
>where the lines are blurred due only to the fact that Chrysler was an
>American company for so long.  When it merged with Daimler, I remember a
>lot of people asking that same question.  I think it comes down to the
>reason for classifying the national heritage of a car.  In our case,
>it's a matter of grouping video game cars together by a common thread.
>I would wager a guess that the overwhelming majority of people who care
>would consider any Chrysler product an American car in this setting,
>just because it's much more comfortable to do so and there's no real
>harm in the misclassification by technicality.  Obviously, if we were
>asking for tax or legal purposes, it would have to be considered more
>seriously.
>
>This next part is partially my opinion:
>
>The only case where I would consider the source of funding a factor in
>this matter is if the government in question financed 100% of the
>venture, making the car manufacturer not only based in the country, but
>making the government itself the effective manufacturer of the car.  In
>the case of DMC, there were many private financiers too, and there is no
>clearly obvious way to determine the car's nation of origin based on
>that (a geographic average of each financier's headquarters?)  I just
>think it's a grey area in the convention, and as such, might just as
>well be discounted as needless complications.
>
>If I understand the story correctly, the British government had no
>financial ownership of DMC at its inception.  By 1982, I think they
>controlled the company.  So, by your logic, does this mean that the
>early and late model DMC-12's have different nations of origins?  Again,
>we have to ask why we care, and what factors are important in the realm.
>
>I do agree that it really isn't an open and shut case, and I'd be
>interested to hear everyone's opinion as well.
>
>Regards,
>Jon Heese
>
>alex morgan wrote:
> >
> > So if I understand what your saying, then we would now consider Dodge 
>and
> > Chrysler to be European cars?  Because they are owned by Daimler 
>Chrysler,
> > they would be manufactured by a British company and as such be 
>considered
> > European cars?
> > Weren't there DMC offices in Europe as well?  I am also curious why you
> > discount the funding source. I thought something like 3/4 of the money 
>came
> > from the British governement.  And it wasn't the U.S. that shut down the
> > company, it was the brits.  Maybe I dont have my facts straight but I
> > thought for sure that the british goverment owned a clear majority of 
>the
> > Delorean motor company.  I know that towards the end of 1982 JZD tried 
>to
> > hand over all his remaining rights to the DMC and they (brit gov) 
>wouldnt
> > take it.  If its an American company why would he hand over the remaing
> > stock to the british goverment?  I believe if DMC was based in the US 
>but a
> > foreign entity owned the majority of the company it would not make it
> > american.  The question is WHO IS THE DELOREAN MOTOR COMPANY?
> >
> > ""DeLorean Motor Company (or at least some reflexive affiliate)
> >
> >>manufactured the car, and DMC was based in the US, so the car is an
> >>American car, by all standards.""
> >
> >
> > I would love to hear some more opinions about this.  I don't believe it 
>to
> > be an open and shut case.
>
>
>
>
>
>To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
>moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
>For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com
>
>To search the archives or view files, log in at 
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>







________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 3
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 16:43:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Stankiewicz <protodelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Carburetor


The TEC3 ECM has some of these bells and whistles in
that it not only fully manages spark and fuel, but
also has 3 user-definable inputs and 3 user-definable
outputs.  Inputs can be from virtually any kind of
sensor, (temp, pressure, vehicle speed, you name it),
then the outputs are also programmable and can be
functions of any of the engine sensors or of the user
inputs.  Fans on/off based on engine temp, torque
converter lock-up based on vehicle speed, shift light
based on RPM, etc.  Heck, maybe raise a spoiler over
60 mph a-la Porsche.  Another nice thing is it has a
built-in rev-limiter.  I've just started learning this
thing, but wanted to point out that the engine
management systems out there are already accomodating
things besides just engine management.  The TEC3 is a
bit pricey, but Electromotive is based relatively
close to me and I liked having support nearby.  I'm
sure other systems have similar features.

I'll let you know when I have that speed-operated
spoiler installed!  ;  )

Steve
--- David Teitelbaum <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net> wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> All this talk about going BACKWARDS is quaint.
> Carbureation is OLD
> TECHNOLOGY. If anything we should be experimenting
> with EFI and full
> engine management. As advanced as K Jetronic was in
> it's time, it was
> a continuous system. The future went to pulsed
> injection so K-Jet is
> only a small step above carburaters anyway. Just
> about all automakers
> have gone to full engine management to improve
> driveability,
> reliablity, emmisions, and performance. Aside from
> the expense of
> doing it, it sounds like a winning combination. No
> more distributer,
> more tolerant of blended gas, no problems with
> extreme hot, cold,
> altitude, in short it will run like a modern car!
> Right now the engine
> has 3 black boxes to keep it running (ignition,
> Lambda, and idle), 4
> if you include voltage regulation. 5 if you have an
> automatic. All
> that could be put into one and all functions
> integrated and fully
> adjustable. It would be a monuemental job but I am
> sure the right
> person could do it! Now THAT would be interesting,
> not some carburator
> bolted onto a manifold! Just think, you could
> incorporate the cooling
> fans (aka Fanzilla or whatever) the door locks,
> remote entry, the
> wiper delay module, the interior lighting delay, and
> on, and on. That
> electronic dashboard now would incorporate all of
> these signals and
> more. With a small plasma display you could have all
> kinds of
> messages. Now we are talking FUTURE!!!
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Marc Levy
> <malevy_nj_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> > 
> > FWIW;
> > 
> > Charles Muffley put a carb on his DeLorean using
> the
> > stock intake..
> > 
> > --- content22207 <brobertson_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating
> team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> 
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for
> sale see www.dmcnews.com
> 
> To search the archives or view files, log in at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>     dmcnews-unsubscribe_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 


=====
Steve

VIN 2650 ("Project Delorean")
www.projectdelorean.com


		
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 00:58:01 +0000
From: "alex morgan" <mauibarber_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Carburator.



I live in hawaii where we have no smog or emissions check.  How difficult is 
it to disconnect all emmissions from the Delorean?  Would it still run 
correctly and if so how much additional horse power would it get.  I 
remember reading that the few European deloreans got an additional 20+hp or 
something.  Any thoughts?
Alex







________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 5
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 20:10:58 EST
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: DMC nation of origin Was: DMC to be in


In a message dated 1/16/05 6:34:10 PM Central Standard Time, 
dmcnews_at_dml_jonheese.com writes:


> I do agree that it really isn't an open and shut case, and I'd be 
> interested to hear everyone's opinion as well.

In my opinion, the car should be classified as British due to the fact that 
the vast majority of the engineering was done by Lotus (Brits), the role of the 
gov't in financing, and the location of the factory (controlled by Britain).  
While a few sub systems on the car are from other countries, the car is very 
unamerican, from an engineering and layout point of view.  Besides, no 
American company would dream of using Lucas electrics!

Andy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 6
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 02:20:50 -0000
From: "endotex23" <endotex23_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Carburator.



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> wrote:

> All this talk about going BACKWARDS is quaint. Carburation is OLD
> TECHNOLOGY....(snip)


Very well said David. "Quaint" is one word but not the one I'd use. A
modern vehicle combines all those functions including idle speed, ESA,
Lambda trim, on and on, into one box. Most are also adaptive learning
systems that compensate for engine and component aging. There is zero
maintainance and reliability is an established fact. Add in the OBD
functions and it's a no brainer. Look at the Toyota TCCS for example.
It's a marvel of engineering and a more intelligent system can't be found.

What you suggest is not all that difficult to do. At the very least a
MegaSquirt or similiar system could easily be installed on a Delorean.
It's low cost, adaptibility, use of off the shelf sensors, and open
architecture for programming make it a good choice. Add in DIS and
you'd have a great setup. Not that the K Jet is all that bad to begin
with. It's easy to work on, simple to understand, and very reliable.
(I do note a lot of misunderstanding and confusion regarding the
mixture trim system however).

As far as emissions the PRV would perform better with less drivability
issues, better fuel economy, and improved cold weather operation with
 EFI. Even TB EFI would be an improvement. Why anyone would carburate
a PRV is beyond me, it's a giant step backwards in every respect. I
have to assume they'd do it solely because they lack the skill or
motivation to learn anything new. Either that or they like working on
the car more than driving it.

Greg








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 7
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 18:22:32 -0800 (PST)
From: mike clemens <rmclemns_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: door trouble...


Corey,

Don't break the window!!  It took me 5 days to get
into my locked car, but it can be done.  (4 day 23
hours trying all kinds of things, all to no avail, and
1 hour of doing the right thing).  You'll need a
lawnmower battery, a super long metal coat hanger, and
a couple of small jumper wires.  Contact me off list
for the exact procedure.

Mike


--- coreysmoo <coreysmoo_at_dml_yahoo.com> wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> thanks.  i am going to attempt entry again today.  i
> really hope it 
> does not come down to window breakage...
> 
> 
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Dave Swingle"
> <swingle_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Corey
> > Not easily.
> > 
> > You may be able to reach the end of the cable thru
> the handle-hole 
> > closest to the back of the car with a needle-nose
> plier, but it 
> looks 
> > to be a pretty tough thing to grab. I've never
> tried it. I'm not 
> sure 
> > of any other way to get in short of breaking a
> window, or at least 
> > forcing one down enough to open the door from the
> inside. If you 
> have 
> > to do this, break one of the small roll-up ones
> because it's 
> easiest 
> > to replace. 
> > 
> > If you have to go that route, do the passenger
> side window - I 
> have a 
> > spare one on hand and I am not far from you. 
> > 
> > BTW - Make sure the new ones you get are
> all-metal. Be sure to 
> ask. 
> > The failure is the 23-year old original plastic
> handle in zero-
> degree 
> > temperatures here in Northern IL.
> > 
> > Note to others - when you break one of these,
> leave a door open 
> until 
> > you get the handle replaced. 
> > 
> > Dave S
> > 
> > --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "coreysmoo"
> <coreysmoo_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > both passenge and driver's side door handles
> broke off my 
> delorean 
> > > yesterday...
> > > 
> > > how can i get in the car?
> > > 
> > > windows are up, the doors are unlocked, but i
> have no handles 
> now.
> > > 
> > > my girlfriends wallet is in there!
> > > 
> > > anyone know what i can do?  i already ordered
> new handles from 
> > > deloreanone.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating
> team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> 
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for
> sale see www.dmcnews.com
> 
> To search the archives or view files, log in at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>     dmcnews-unsubscribe_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 



		
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Message: 8
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 18:40:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Carburator.


It has been a few years since I have done embedded
programming, but would be glad to partake in an effort
like this.

However, there is no need to re-invent the wheel. 
There are a few open-source DYI engine management
systems.  MegaSquirt being the most well known, and
others essentially being spin-offs of MegaSquirt.  The
better ones do all of the software in assembler so
they are more efficient.  

http://www.megasquirt.info/

Last I checked, the current MegaSquirt hardware will
handle both Batch and Bank fuel injection, as well as
simple spark control.  They have a new one that is not
yet out called Ultra MegaSquirt.  That one looks like
it will be able to do sequential fuel injection, as
well as individual spark control (for coil-on-plug
setup).  IIRC, it will also have support for forced
induction controls, knock sensor, fuel pump
control....  Actually, a bunch of inputs and outputs
that you can configure to do anything you want through
software.



> 
> Not to mention multiple redundant temperature
> sensors, spark advance, 
> all that electro-mechanical-vacuum logic (replete
> with solenoid valves, 
> vacuum delay units, etc) and so on.  I've been
> pipe-dreaming about an 
> open-source project like this for years.  I have to
> admit, though, that 
> I am torn--keeping the D's engine working the way
> God intended it has 
> its own appeal.
> 
> I once tried to convince some of the well-known
> players in the 
> "DeLorean aftermarket electronics" game of the
> merits of an open 
> architecture that would permit mix-and-matching of
> add-on electronics, 
> but not too surprisingly, there was little
> enthusiasm. It would be a 
> lot of work, and somebody technical would have to be
> quite committed in 
> the role of main architect (and most of those people
> are busy these 
> days).  So, how many embedded systems programmers do
> we have on the 
> list?
> 
> -Pete
> 



		
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Message: 9
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 22:19:11 EST
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: DCS 2006 Engine rebuild contest


One good thing that came out of todays discussion was what could be done to  
improve the show technically.
 
I am looking for two teams interested on probably Saturday Morning say 8 am  
start time to take an engine that is totally torn down and rebuild it.
 
The fastest team is the winner 
 
We will figure out a prize
 
I am sure we can find two engines (I have one already)
 
Parts would be cleaned and ready to go all it needs is a rebuild.
 
Is there anyone interested 
I would think two teams of 8 and I am hoping it can go together in about 3  
hours
What do you think
 
Ken


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 10
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 21:21:23 -0600
From: "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: door trouble...


I haven't been watching this thread, but am I to understand that your door 
are locked
and your key will not unlock them?
Why should the battery matter?

I think you might have a problem that I have encountered before, where the 
door locks
get jammed, this is not always a solenoid problem.
I find that this is usually caused by one of the door catches being off just 
a little
and the lock mechanism getting jammed.
The way that I have solved this is to press really hard on each side of the 
door
while trying to unlock the door.
Sometimes it takes a little working but I usually get it.

- VB

>From: mike clemens <rmclemns_at_dml_yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [DML] Re: door trouble...
>Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 18:22:32 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>
>Corey,
>
>Don't break the window!!  It took me 5 days to get
>into my locked car, but it can be done.  (4 day 23
>hours trying all kinds of things, all to no avail, and
>1 hour of doing the right thing).  You'll need a
>lawnmower battery, a super long metal coat hanger, and
>a couple of small jumper wires.  Contact me off list
>for the exact procedure.
>
>Mike
>
>
>--- coreysmoo <coreysmoo_at_dml_yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > thanks.  i am going to attempt entry again today.  i
> > really hope it
> > does not come down to window breakage...
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Dave Swingle"
> > <swingle_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Corey
> > > Not easily.
> > >
> > > You may be able to reach the end of the cable thru
> > the handle-hole
> > > closest to the back of the car with a needle-nose
> > plier, but it
> > looks
> > > to be a pretty tough thing to grab. I've never
> > tried it. I'm not
> > sure
> > > of any other way to get in short of breaking a
> > window, or at least
> > > forcing one down enough to open the door from the
> > inside. If you
> > have
> > > to do this, break one of the small roll-up ones
> > because it's
> > easiest
> > > to replace.
> > >
> > > If you have to go that route, do the passenger
> > side window - I
> > have a
> > > spare one on hand and I am not far from you.
> > >
> > > BTW - Make sure the new ones you get are
> > all-metal. Be sure to
> > ask.
> > > The failure is the 23-year old original plastic
> > handle in zero-
> > degree
> > > temperatures here in Northern IL.
> > >
> > > Note to others - when you break one of these,
> > leave a door open
> > until
> > > you get the handle replaced.
> > >
> > > Dave S
> > >
> > > --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "coreysmoo"
> > <coreysmoo_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > both passenge and driver's side door handles
> > broke off my
> > delorean
> > > > yesterday...
> > > >
> > > > how can i get in the car?
> > > >
> > > > windows are up, the doors are unlocked, but i
> > have no handles
> > now.
> > > >
> > > > my girlfriends wallet is in there!
> > > >
> > > > anyone know what i can do?  i already ordered
> > new handles from
> > > > deloreanone.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To address comments privately to the moderating
> > team, please address:
> > moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> >
> > For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for
> > sale see www.dmcnews.com
> >
> > To search the archives or view files, log in at
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >     dmcnews-unsubscribe_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
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>
>
>
>
>To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
>moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
>For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com
>
>To search the archives or view files, log in at 
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>







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Message: 11
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 22:15:47 -0800
From: " Toscano" <toscano2_at_dml_ix.netcom.com>
Subject: re: B230 engine - this may be a stupid question, but....


What is the difference between the B230 and B230F? My 1993 Volvo 240DL sedan has a B230F in it, which I believe for one had L-Jetronic FI, but otherwise not sure what the differences would be. And I know of *three* Volvo graveyards here in the MA/NH area that are chock full of 200 and 700 series Volvos....


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 03:31:25 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>
Subject: Re: door trouble...



In his original post he noted that the doors are unlocked. Due to the 
cold temperatures in northern IL (zero degrees) he broke off both 
plastic door handles. Unless he already has electric door lauchers 
installed, the problem needs a mechanical solution. 

Dave S

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_h...> 
wrote:
> 
> I haven't been watching this thread, but am I to understand that 
your door 
> are locked
> and your key will not unlock them?
> Why should the battery matter?
> 








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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 03:44:00 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Carburator (David T)



Perhaps you meant to say "carburetion is tried and true technology"?

True, carburetion does not meet everyone's needs. But for those of
like mind (at least half a dozen on this List), it is a fool proof and
trouble free method of fuel delivery.

(Thought I explained as much in Message #48334).

I'm not interested in making my car "more advanced". I'm interested in
making it simple, reliable, and easy to maintain. For example:
- My intake manifold comes off in a minute or so to access plumbing in
the Valley of Death (popped it off and reinstalled at a gas station
once *WHILE* filling the tank). I can also reach into the Valley of
Death from above the engine. Of course clamps on the back of the water
pump are accessible with manifold still in place.
- Changing cap, rotor, plugs & wires takes well less than 30 minutes. 
- Haven't pulled it off yet, but eventual water pump replacement
should also be less than 30 minutes (not only is it fully exposed, but
my pump is held to the block by stainless studs & nuts).
- Clutch slave cylinder, heater core shutoff valve, heater core
takeoff barb, temp gauge sending unit, etc are also fully exposed for
easy replacement.
- Fuel distributor, fuel injectors, copper washers, injector boots,
banjo bolts, fuel lines, CPR, delay valve, thermal vacuum switch,
hidden vacuum lines, frequency valve, idle speed motor, idle speed
motor takeoff O ring, U pipe gaskets, spark advance cutoff solenoid,
idle speed microswitch, full throttle microswitch, thermal time
switch, cold start injector, cold start tube O ring, O2 sensor, Lambda
and idle speed ECU's, fuel accumulator, and clips on the throttle
spool connecting rod will never need replacement because they aren't
on my vehicle.
- Low PSI fuel pump IS in the tank ($12.99). A cartridge fuel filter
IS in the engine compartment ($1.99). Rubber fuel lines DO connect
them ($.99 per foot), held tight by band clamps ($.50 each). And I DO
have an air filter ($2.99).

Note also that I have none of the running issues that keep popping up
on this List:
- Engine starts on the first key turn.
- Idle speed does not fluctuate. Carb does have a fast idle cam that
predictably steps down as its spring warms up (opens the choke plate
at the same time).
- Engine vacuum itself draws fuel through the venturi, so metering
always matches throttle setting.
- I have an improved tank baffle & pickup of my own design, but they
really isn't necessary because the pump only puts out 4-6 PSI, and
carb actually draws from its own reserve in the bowls.
- Engine hasn't cut off on me yet, but I expect it to do so the first
time car flips upside down (inertia switch isn't necessary either).

You mentioned expense -- exclusive of the manifold, carburetion costs
$200+.

What I find quaint is the reverence paid to "modern" cars, especially
considering no one hangs onto one of them for more than 5 years or so.
My daily transportation are carbureted vehicles 24-28 years old. They
all start on the first key turn. They all run perfectly, even in 20
degree weather (that's what a properly functioning choke plate does
for you). I maintain each of them myself for the cost of parts, which
cost a fraction new car parts. Maintenance also takes a fraction of
the time required for new car maintenance simply because access is so
much easier.

BTW: have I ever told you I still drive in daily service the same car
I drove in high school? May be "quaint" to you, but I find it way
cool. How many people can make such a claim to longevity? I've
uploaded a pic to #5939's photo album until Dave Swingle knocks it down.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> wrote:
> 
> 
> All this talk about going BACKWARDS is quaint. Carbureation is OLD
> TECHNOLOGY. If anything we should be experimenting with EFI and full
> engine management. As advanced as K Jetronic was in it's time, it was
> a continuous system. The future went to pulsed injection so K-Jet is
> only a small step above carburaters anyway. Just about all automakers
> have gone to full engine management to improve driveability,
> reliablity, emmisions, and performance. Aside from the expense of
> doing it, it sounds like a winning combination. No more distributer,
> more tolerant of blended gas, no problems with extreme hot, cold,
> altitude, in short it will run like a modern car! Right now the engine
> has 3 black boxes to keep it running (ignition, Lambda, and idle), 4
> if you include voltage regulation. 5 if you have an automatic. All
> that could be put into one and all functions integrated and fully
> adjustable. It would be a monuemental job but I am sure the right
> person could do it! Now THAT would be interesting, not some carburator
> bolted onto a manifold! Just think, you could incorporate the cooling
> fans (aka Fanzilla or whatever) the door locks, remote entry, the
> wiper delay module, the interior lighting delay, and on, and on. That
> electronic dashboard now would incorporate all of these signals and
> more. With a small plasma display you could have all kinds of
> messages. Now we are talking FUTURE!!!
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> > 
> > FWIW;
> > 
> > Charles Muffley put a carb on his DeLorean using the
> > stock intake..
> > 
> > --- content22207 <brobertson_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> >








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Message: 14
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 00:49:00 EST
From: ttanaka504_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: DMC to be in a new PS2 game




Soma576_at_dml_aol.com write:

>It's only a game, man! It has nothing to do with real life.

     needless to say    GT4 is just a Video game, I need
a lot imagination to get real idea. But it help me
how do I think to get what I want. 

    For an easy example, If I want to run my D until 250 km/h in real life,
I use GT4 to modify to get enough HP. Then I can guess
how much HP I need to run 250 km/h without many calculations.   
 
    GT4 can adjust the car setting without dirty our hands.
I can change height, alignment, aero dynamics etc... without spending any 
money.
After several changes, I get some idea what car will be changed.

    I just get simple basic idea from this simulator and this is 
better than I just think in front of my disk. 
I understand you think it has nothing to do with real life.
But I think it helps me, and some people may think my way. 

Blacknight

    



    









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 15
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 07:35:14 +0100
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>
Subject: AW: DMC to be in a new PS2 game


Alex,
you make it really complicated but the more I think about it,
the harder it gets to find the truth.
I don't know about the law and stuff like that.
But I can tell you that the Delorean isn't recognized as a
European or not even as a British car over here.

The same way as you asked if Chrysler is European (in this case German) now,
I could ask you if you think a Mercedes is now American ? Well, NO WAY !

This discussion has been on several times. In fact at least once a year.
To us over here it is an american car built with many european parts
(what a luck - it's metric ! ;-) ).

Has anybody ever asked JZD that question ?

Elvis & 6548


So if I understand what your saying, then we would now consider Dodge and
Chrysler to be European cars?  Because they are owned by Daimler Chrysler,
they would be manufactured by a British company and as such be considered
European cars?
Weren't there DMC offices in Europe as well?  I am also curious why you
discount the funding source. I thought something like 3/4 of the money came
from the British governement.  And it wasn't the U.S. that shut down the
company, it was the brits.  Maybe I dont have my facts straight but I
thought for sure that the british goverment owned a clear majority of the
Delorean motor company.  I know that towards the end of 1982 JZD tried to
hand over all his remaining rights to the DMC and they (brit gov) wouldnt
take it.  If its an American company why would he hand over the remaing
stock to the british goverment?  I believe if DMC was based in the US but a
foreign entity owned the majority of the company it would not make it
american.  The question is WHO IS THE DELOREAN MOTOR COMPANY?

""DeLorean Motor Company (or at least some reflexive affiliate)
>manufactured the car, and DMC was based in the US, so the car is an
>American car, by all standards.""

I would love to hear some more opinions about this.  I don't believe it to
be an open and shut case.






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Message: 16
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 04:53:29 -0000
From: "endotex23" <endotex23_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Carburator.



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "alex morgan" <mauibarber_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> 
> 
> I live in hawaii where we have no smog or emissions check.  How
difficult is it to disconnect all emmissions from the Delorean?  Would
it still run correctly and if so how much additional horse power would
it get.<


Hmmm, depending on those trades winds to blow it away? It still goes
into the atmosphere you know and someone has to deal with it. Also, I
know of not a single state, emissions inspection or not, that legally
permits the removal of factory installed emissions equipment. That said...

The Lambda trim system is designed to dynamically control your mixture
to stoichiometric, 14.7 parts air to 1 part fuel. Also expressed as a
Lambda of 1. It's a trade off between good drivability, fuel economy,
and lowest emissions with lowest emissions being the priority of the
design. It's also there for one very other important reason: to supply
the catlayst with the narrow range of the three pollutant gas species
(along with a certain level of oxygen) it needs to operate correctly.

Note that this mixture is not one that provides best power, you need
to be richer for that. There are sevral ways to tune for best power.
One is to set your mixture up using a gas anaylzer or better still,
exhaust gas temperature. There are several ways to defeat the Lambda
system before doing so, some crude, some with technical finess. Either
way you need to also remove the converter because once mixture is set
to best power it will not only fail to function but will likely end up
being damaged. It'll help the engine breath better too. Also expect
lower fuel economy running best power. Fwiw, you won't gain all that
much but I suppose this car needs all the help it can get.

You could simply enbale your WOT throttle or Lambda thermal switch
input full time. Crude, open loop, and not exactly best power. Another
is to disconnect the O2 sensor and tweak primary mixture. Or
disconnect the power to the Lambda module and tweak primary mixture. 
Or disconnect the frequency valve and retune. All of these methods
will work but the one I prefer is to leave the Lambda operational and
change it's internal setpoint to introduce an offset that gives best
power. Closed loop control is then retained only now it's done at best
power instead of a Lambda of 1. 

You can do this one of two ways. You can open the Lambda and change
the calibration resistors or you can "fudge" the O2 sensor signal.
(You can also use a similiar method as a way to increase fuel economy
by running leaner, but only for highway driving. Anyone who tells you
running an engine a little lean at a constant low power setting will
damage it doesn't know what he's talking about).

No matter how you do it, for best power you're looking for about 12 to
13 for air/fuel ratio (about .80 to .90 Lambda). It differs depending
on combustion chamber design and other things so you'd need to do dyno
testing to get it exactly right but 12.5 to 13 is a good place to
start. If using a gas anyalzer shoot for about 3% CO as a start and go
from there. If using EGT tune for about 200 degrees F on the rich side
of peak EGT while under heavy load. Or you can use your (disconnected)
O2 sensor. Connect it to a high impedance millivolt meter and tune for
about 790-850 mv. Do not reconnect it when done. It'll need to be hot
and you'll need to be close to start with because the typical narrow
band O2 sensor's range is limited. A wide-band sensor would be better
for this and is a common, if not cheap, tuning tool.

In summary there are multiple ways to do what you want. It all depends
on how much you know and how far you're willing to go. You might
consider that you'll need to return the system to stock at some point
in the future. Increasing the engine's volumetric efficiency (short of
forced induction) will help too but it always require mixture tuning
afterwards. You can't make the engne breath better and not feed it
more fuel.

Finally, leave the Delorean's form of PCV intact because you'll still
need it. Also leave your fuel EVAP system intact as you won't gain
anything by removing it.

Greg










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Message: 17
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 05:30:12 -0000
From: nicholden_at_dml_yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Carburator.



David, you hit the nail right on the head. I have not bought a fan 
villa due to the fact that the EFI control module i am purchasing has 
the facility to activate mutiple relays in a set sequence to bring on 
the fans (or anything else) the same way the fan villa does. 

Cheers, Nick

ps: for what it's worth i too feel that carburation is taking a step 
backwards. Yes it maybe easier to work on and understood by many than 
a 23 year old failing k-jetronic system but when working correctly 
the K jetronic is a better system. I do agree about access been an 
issue with the K-Jetronic system but with my EFI set-up thats half on 
there now it will have even more room than a carburator, admittantly 
at 4/5 times the cost though!



On Jan 16, 2005, at 1:13 PM, David Teitelbaum wrote:

> Just think, you could incorporate the cooling
> fans (aka Fanzilla or whatever) the door locks, remote entry, the
> wiper delay module, the interior lighting delay, and on, and on.

Not to mention multiple redundant temperature sensors, spark advance, 
all that electro-mechanical-vacuum logic (replete with solenoid 
valves, 
vacuum delay units, etc) and so on.  I've been pipe-dreaming about an 
open-source project like this for years.  I have to admit, though, 
that 
I am torn--keeping the D's engine working the way God intended it has 
its own appeal.

I once tried to convince some of the well-known players in the 
"DeLorean aftermarket electronics" game of the merits of an open 
architecture that would permit mix-and-matching of add-on 
electronics, 
but not too surprisingly, there was little enthusiasm. It would be a 
lot of work, and somebody technical would have to be quite committed 
in 
the role of main architect (and most of those people are busy these 
days).  So, how many embedded systems programmers do we have on the 
list?

-Pete









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Message: 18
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 03:47:05 -0000
From: "stainlessilusion" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>
Subject: Re: More problems found (was Piston rings + sleeves)



Some pictures of todays happenings: http://damngoodsite.net/5003.html
 .....my 7 thousand dollar engine, wish it was going in the DeLo LOL
;)

As you can see, no shade tree mechanic here, I love working on engines
and transmissions, been doing it for years:). Today I had all day to
examine the car. Valve adjustments were first.
I discovered that there wasn't even a gasket installed for the left
side valve cover and bolts were loose, luckly I had one last brand new
set of gaskets on my shelf. Intake clearances were off but not bad,
exhaust was OK. All camshaft lobes look fine, there were no flat
spots. After that, I removed the intake manifold to see whats
going on underneith as well as make it easier for compression test and
distributor examination. I wanted to check electical connections,
vacuum connections as well as any coolant leaks also. Compression was
as follows: #1 cyl 10.7 BAR/125PSI #2 11BAR/160PSI #3 10.5BAR/152PSI
#4 10BAR/142PSI #5 10BAR/143PSI #6 10BAR/143PSI. I also needed to
adjust the bolt under the dash that stops the gas pedal, seems that
this cured my problem a little bit. Upon reassembly and restarting the
car, the engine ran extremely rough-but I believe this to be from the
old alternator I had to install, need to send the 150amp back because
of it's loud squeeling upon starting up. Checked timing, was dead on,
and I removed & disassembled the distributor and rebuilt it again.
Otherwise, there must be a
vacuum leak somewhere, my lines are all connected so I'm not really
sure where to look next for leaks,  any suggestions? -----Dani B.
#5003








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Message: 19
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 02:24:05 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: RE: re: B230 engine - this may be a stupid question, but....


The B230 series are Volvo 4 cylinder engines used in 1983 to 1993 Volvo's.
The end letters denote fuel system type. 

B230A,B230K: single carburetor version 
B230E: fuel injection high compression version 
B230F: fuel injection low compression version 
B230FT: fuel injection turbo charged version 

The 1983 B230F 2316 is equipped with the Bosch LH 2.4. fuel injection
system. 
  
BTW: The B230 series engines have no compatibility with the B28F series PRV
engines used in high end Volvo's or DeLorean's.

DMC Joe 

-----Original Message-----
From: Toscano [mailto:toscano2_at_dml_ix.netcom.com] 
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 1:16 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] re: B230 engine - this may be a stupid question, but....

What is the difference between the B230 and B230F? My 1993 Volvo 240DL sedan
has a B230F in it, which I believe for one had L-Jetronic FI, but otherwise
not sure what the differences would be. And I know of *three* Volvo
graveyards here in the MA/NH area that are chock full of 200 and 700 series
Volvos....


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







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Message: 20
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 07:50:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Shepherd <chrisau79_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: door trouble...


Call a locksmith! I was on a trip and locked mine with the keys in the trunk. Called a locksmith who had it open in less than 5 minutes. He made a spare key on the spot and charged less than $35. A bargain.
 
Chris
6301

mike clemens <rmclemns_at_dml_yahoo.com> wrote:


Corey,

Don't break the window!! It took me 5 days to get
into my locked car, but it can be done. (4 day 23
hours trying all kinds of things, all to no avail, and
1 hour of doing the right thing). You'll need a
lawnmower battery, a super long metal coat hanger, and
a couple of small jumper wires. Contact me off list
for the exact procedure.

Mike


--- coreysmoo wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> thanks. i am going to attempt entry again today. i
> really hope it 
> does not come down to window breakage...
> 
> 
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Dave Swingle"
> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Corey
> > Not easily.
> > 
> > You may be able to reach the end of the cable thru
> the handle-hole 
> > closest to the back of the car with a needle-nose
> plier, but it 
> looks 
> > to be a pretty tough thing to grab. I've never
> tried it. I'm not 
> sure 
> > of any other way to get in short of breaking a
> window, or at least 
> > forcing one down enough to open the door from the
> inside. If you 
> have 
> > to do this, break one of the small roll-up ones
> because it's 
> easiest 
> > to replace. 
> > 
> > If you have to go that route, do the passenger
> side window - I 
> have a 
> > spare one on hand and I am not far from you. 
> > 
> > BTW - Make sure the new ones you get are
> all-metal. Be sure to 
> ask. 
> > The failure is the 23-year old original plastic
> handle in zero-
> degree 
> > temperatures here in Northern IL.
> > 
> > Note to others - when you break one of these,
> leave a door open 
> until 
> > you get the handle replaced. 
> > 
> > Dave S
> > 
> > --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "coreysmoo"
> wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > both passenge and driver's side door handles
> broke off my 
> delorean 
> > > yesterday...
> > > 
> > > how can i get in the car?
> > > 
> > > windows are up, the doors are unlocked, but i
> have no handles 
> now.
> > > 
> > > my girlfriends wallet is in there!
> > > 
> > > anyone know what i can do? i already ordered
> new handles from 
> > > deloreanone.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating
> team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> 
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for
> sale see www.dmcnews.com
> 
> To search the archives or view files, log in at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> dmcnews-unsubscribe_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 




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Message: 21
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 04:34:48 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: DCS 2006 Engine rebuild contest



Unless at the end you actually tried to run the motors I think it is a
bad idea. There are too many ways to cheat and take shortcuts that no
one would know about until you tried to actually run the motors.
Anyone can slap parts together, only someone with time, knowledge and
experience can do it right. You might wind up with 2 very expensive
piles of motor parts and a lot of wasted gaskets and seals. IMHO
seminars and hands-on displays would be the most interesting. There
should be a mix of very technical and very novice type activities like
how to detail a car for the technically challanged and the inner
workings of the fuel system for the more advanced attendee.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, kKoncelik_at_dml_a... wrote:
> 
> One good thing that came out of todays discussion was what could be
done to  
> improve the show technically.
>  
> I am looking for two teams interested on probably Saturday Morning
say 8 am  
> start time to take an engine that is totally torn down and rebuild it.
>  
> 








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Message: 22
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 13:49:09 -0000
From: dmcjohn_at_dml_hotmail.com
Subject: DeLorean Owners in Ireland website!



Hi Lads,

When you get a chance, take a look at our new website for DeLorean 
Owners in Ireland:

http://www.delorean.ie

I have a few interviews lined up in the coming weeks with some former 
management of DMC who live in Ireland, plus more cool stuff. This 
will be added to the website soon...

For the moment, there are still some interesting sections for you 
guys in the USA - check out the Previous Meetings section for the 
meeting in Belfast we had recently - you can see some very nice and 
up to date pictures of the DeLorean factory and test track here.

Thanks!

John Dore,
Dublin, Ireland, VIN 3810.








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Message: 23
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 01:34:12 -0800 (PST)
From: toscano2_at_dml_ix.netcom.com
Subject: Sighting: Crank Yankers (Comedy Central)


Don't know if I was watching a preview or part of a show, but I just happened to walk through the room where my nephew was watching Comedy Central and on an episode of Crank Yankers, there is a DMC poster in the background. It is directly to the left of a red Ferrari 328 poster that the puppet was in front of while making the phone call. 







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Message: 24
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 10:31:03 -0600
From: "Scott Mueller" <scott.a.mueller_at_dml_mchsi.com>
Subject: DMC US, Irish or British Built?


There have been many good points brought up about whether the DeLorean is a
British, Irish or U.S. car.
 
I say, what ever you want it to be.
 
When I go to a British car show, I enter the car as being British or Irish.
 
When I go to a U.S. car show, I enter the car as being U.S.
 
The questionable lineage has allowed me to compete in many shows.
 
My first car show was the 1997 Monterey British Car-Meet.
 
Go to the archives
 
http://www.dmcnews.com/backissues/apr97files/dml231.html
 
and you can read about it.
 
Have fun and don't stress out over it.
 
Scott Mueller 002981
 
 


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Message: 25
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 08:55:12 -0500
From: Peter Lucas <lucas_at_dml_Maya.com>
Subject: Re: DMC nation of origin Was: DMC to be in


On Jan 16, 2005, at 8:10 PM, Soma576_at_dml_aol.com wrote:

> In my opinion, the car should be classified as British due to the fact 
> that
> the vast majority of the engineering was done by Lotus (Brits), the 
> role of the
> gov't in financing, and the location of the factory (controlled by 
> Britain).
> While a few sub systems on the car are from other countries, the car 
> is very
> unamerican, from an engineering and layout point of view.  Besides, no
> American company would dream of using Lucas electrics!
> Andy

In m opinion, the car should be classified as British due to the fact 
that the British car community has the coolest car shows.  :-)

Andy makes a good point about Lucas electrics. Maybe the presence of my 
uncle Joe's stuff should be the definitive test!

--Pete Lucas
   VIN #06703

P.S. -- Just kidding about "uncle Joe".






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