From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2433
Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 6:40 PM


There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Re: DCS 2006 Engine rebuild contest
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

2. RE: Parts Interchange lis update...Not necessary
From: "Joseph Kuchan" <josephkuchan_at_dml_hotmail.com>

3. RE: Delorean Parts Interchange List.
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

4. Re: Parts Interchange lis update...Not necessary
From: "wayofcain" <wayofcain_at_dml_yahoo.com>

5. Re: Delorean Fuel
From: Owen Emry <owen_at_dml_aerodrome.us>

6. Re: Delorean Fuel
From: "Tom" <tomciodmc_at_dml_poczta.onet.pl>

7. RE: Delorean Fuel
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

8. Re: High Idle
From: "wayofcain" <wayofcain_at_dml_yahoo.com>

9. Re: High Idle
From: "wayofcain" <wayofcain_at_dml_yahoo.com>

10. RE: High Idle
From: JDub <doki_pen_at_dml_yahoo.com>

11. Re: door trouble...
From: "Chris Williams" <chris_at_dml_cwilliams68.fsnet.co.uk>

12. RE: High Idle
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

13. Re: Delorean Fuel
From: "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>

14. Re: Delorean Fuel
From: DMCVIN6683 <dmcvin6683_at_dml_wi.rr.com>

15. RE: Parts Interchange lis update...Not necessary
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

16. Re: Carburator (David T)
From: "stainlessilusion" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>

17. Re: Re: Parts Interchange lis update...Not necessary
From: Jake Kamphoefner <jakekamp_at_dml_sbcglobal.net>

18. RUSTED FRAMES
From: "cajunsprint" <carldavis_at_dml_familykia.com>

19. Re: Re: Carburator (David T)
From: "Owen _at_dml_ Aerodrome" <owen_at_dml_aerodrome.us>

20. Re: RUSTED FRAMES
From: "stainlessilusion" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>

21. Re: RUSTED FRAMES
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>

22. Re: RUSTED FRAMES
From: Josh Haldeman <jhaldeman_at_dml_fuse.net>

23. Re: High Idle
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

24. Re: Re: door trouble...
From: mike clemens <rmclemns_at_dml_yahoo.com>

25. Re: Delorean Fuel
From: "p12c16" <PRC1216_at_dml_aol.com>





Message: 1
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:07:33 EST
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: DCS 2006 Engine rebuild contest


See I targeted the right person 
I have all the parts needed so that is not a problem
The harness I will need to get but I think I can find two between the  
vendors and some of the others
I will post that 
I have coils ecu, battery fuel pump etc
 
So tell me what you want and I will send it to  you


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 10:15:00 -0600
From: "Joseph Kuchan" <josephkuchan_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Parts Interchange lis update...Not necessary


Unless you happen to be on the road 1500 miles from home and the only handy 
option is a local parts store. Then it might not be a bad thing to have a 
cross-reference in your road emergency kit so that you don't have to take a 
motel for an extra couple of nights while you wait for the Fed-X guy to show 
up with what might be available a few blocks away.

-Joe Kuchan


>Ok, I did some research using my list and checking it with multiple 
>delorean
>parts websites and found that most of the generic parts on my interchange
>list were the same price (or less) than the real delorean parts.  I am 
>going
>to do some more research but so far it seems pointless to buy a part thats
>not made for a delorean when you can get the right part for the same price.







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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:51:52 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: RE: Delorean Parts Interchange List.


Alex,

I would like to back up Jakes comments and add the following. I believe I
published the first DeLorean parts crossover list back in 1985. As years
went by I found that some of the parts were modified and no longer fit or
worked in the DeLorean. On a price basis most DeLorean vendors parts prices
are right in line with the crossover from other suppliers. If you're a Volvo
owner you will find that many of the fuel injection parts are priced lower
from the DeLorean vendors than from Volvo vendors.

DMC Joe 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jake Kamphoefner [mailto:jakekamp_at_dml_sbcglobal.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 12:54 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DML] Delorean Parts Interchange List.



Alex,

You're really on your own on that one.  Parts cross-over lists are not
necessary because we have vendors that do all the work for us.  If you
choose to use a crossover (and most of us do at some point or another), it's
up to you to decide whether it works or not.  That is, some of the parts you
list below may "fit", but how do you define "work"?  For instance, the Delco
blower motor will fit, but some of them turn the wrong direction, so you'd
have to reverse the polarity.  --Or sometimes the squirrel cage is reversed
from the DeLorean position.  The door seals you list might actually go on
the door lip, but they may not seal worth a rat's ass.

For that reason, you'll have a lot of trouble getting people to agree on
what is a crossover.  If you want to be sure, buy from a vendor.  When you
buy a DeLorean, the question is not parts availability; the question is, can
you afford to buy all of them?!

Jake Kamphoefner
Speakin' for me and 1063


----- Original Message -----
From: "alex morgan" <mauibarber_at_dml_hotmail.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 3:16 PM
Subject: [DML] Delorean Parts Interchange List.


>
>
> I'm sure most of you have a parts interchange list but I notice there is 
> not
> one on the DMCNEWS.com site.  It would be great to have a solid parts
> interchange list available at dmcnews.com.  I have about 20 pages worth of
> information but I'm not sure if it all is correct.  Here are some 
> examples.
> 





To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
Yahoo! Groups Links



 








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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 4
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 17:15:21 -0000
From: "wayofcain" <wayofcain_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Parts Interchange lis update...Not necessary



I would like to have an up to date interchange list not for permanent 
repairs but for emergency fixes. I have found myself wary of taking 
my Delorean on anything over a 4 hour trip for fear of a mild 
breakdown disabling the car and no parts being available. Especially 
on a weekend when few vendors are available and the most travel 
occurs. We can bring the tools with us but have to wait for shipping 
on the parts.

I have long thought that a glove box part interchange companion would 
be wise investment for anyone traveling in a Delorean. This would 
allow us to stop at any parts distributor and purchase stop gap 
repairs to get the car safely home where a proper repair could be 
made. I know that if a vendor sold one or there was a way to 
subscribe to one that would be replaced yearly with updates. I would 
be number one on the sign up sheet.

Cain Grimes
002835

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "alex morgan" <mauibarber_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> 
> Ok, I did some research using my list and checking it with multiple 
delorean 
> parts websites and found that most of the generic parts on my 
interchange 
> list were the same price (or less) than the real delorean parts.  I 
am going 
> to do some more research but so far it seems pointless to buy a 
part thats 
> not made for a delorean when you can get the right part for the 
same price.  
> And again I don't know if these interchange parts even work.  Maybe 
someday 
> we will have to resort to an interchange list but hopefully not 
anytime 
> soon.
> Thanks again,
> Alex








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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 08:27:39 -0800
From: Owen Emry <owen_at_dml_aerodrome.us>
Subject: Re: Delorean Fuel


Using fuel with a higher-than-necessary octane rating is well known to be a complete waste of money.  Not only are you paying more for the fuel in the first place, but higher octane fuel actually has a lower energy content.  (Octane has lower energy content than heptane.)

Your car is designed for use with 87 octane fuel.  It even says that right in the owner's manual.

Part 3 of the Gasoline FAQ says it more thoroughly than I will:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/gasoline-faq/part3/

Regards,
Owen



secret_jedi_guy wrote:
> 
> 
> A gas station near my house has just started providing 100 octane 
> unleaded racing fuel.  I'm not sure why, but it seems cool to me.  I 
> was just wondering what fuel most people on the list use and if they 
> have ever tried putting 100 oct. in their Deloreans before.  I put 
> 87 in once and only once.  Performance and MPG sucked like a 
> Hoover.  If anyone on the list has put in 100 oct., what were the 
> side effects (e.g. performance, MPG, overheating, etc.)  I am just 
> curious because I am thinking about trying it out. 
> 
> I have been sticking with 91 and I put in an octane booster.  Also 
> to aid the fight for the K-Jet vs. Carburetion fight, I prefer my K-
> Jet now that I have given it a good cleaning including all six 
> injectors.  Fuel delivery is very smooth.
> 
> It would be really interesting to see that racing fuel in a DMCH 
> Stage III engine.
> 
> Japheth VIN: 1223
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> 
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com
> 
> To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 






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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 17:42:32 +0100
From: "Tom" <tomciodmc_at_dml_poczta.onet.pl>
Subject: Re: Delorean Fuel


Hello

I could not resist and had to chime in on this subject. Every once in a
while this subject comes up.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "secret_jedi_guy"
> I have been sticking with 91 and I put in an octane booster.

Why do you stick with 91 octane?? And why octane booster?? There must be
something wrong with your engine. The DeLorean was designed for 87 octane
fuel - unless you're outside the US, in that case yes - 91 is the correct
one.
Once again:
USA - 87 octane gasoline, R+M/2 method
Europe - 91 octane gasoline
Stick with what the car was designed for. If the engine is running rough and
you get poor mileage using the correct grade gas then there is something
wrong. It should be fixed before it ends up being much bigger problem. Using
gas of higher octane rating will result in carbon deposits in the combustion
chambers and might lead to burning out the valve seats.

BTW, stay away from 100 octane fuel. It is meant to be used in highly
modified engines with increased compression and power output - hence the
word 'racing'.

Tom Niemczewski
jamesik_at_dml_vp.pl
VIN 6149
Save the dream so you can live the dream...






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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 7
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:22:31 -0600
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Delorean Fuel


Japheth, Here is a link as to running a higher octane # gas.
John Hervey
www.specialtauto.com
http://www.mustangandfords.com/techarticles/30643/

-----Original Message-----
From: secret_jedi_guy [mailto:secret_jedi_guy_at_dml_yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 1:18 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Delorean Fuel





A gas station near my house has just started providing 100 octane
unleaded racing fuel.  I'm not sure why, but it seems cool to me.  I
was just wondering what fuel most people on the list use and if they
have ever tried putting 100 oct. in their Deloreans before.  I put
87 in once and only once.  Performance and MPG sucked like a
Hoover.  If anyone on the list has put in 100 oct., what were the
side effects (e.g. performance, MPG, overheating, etc.)  I am just
curious because I am thinking about trying it out.

I have been sticking with 91 and I put in an octane booster.  Also
to aid the fight for the K-Jet vs. Carburetion fight, I prefer my K-
Jet now that I have given it a good cleaning including all six
injectors.  Fuel delivery is very smooth.

It would be really interesting to see that racing fuel in a DMCH
Stage III engine.

Japheth VIN: 1223









To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
Yahoo! Groups Links













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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 8
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 16:36:35 -0000
From: "wayofcain" <wayofcain_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: High Idle



I have the exact same problem. I am starting by replacing the 
microswitch and then will move on to vacuum hoses if the problem 
isn't resolved. Please let me know if you come across the solution 
before this weekend when I am planning on getting this thing done.

Cain Grimes
002835

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> 
> Do not adjust the timing! There are lots of possible causes of an 
idle speed
> of 1500 RPM, ignition timing is not one of them. I'll leave 
suggestions on
> possible causes to some of the other list members.
> 
> DMC Joe  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JDub [mailto:doki_pen_at_dml_y...] 
> Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 9:05 PM
> To: DML
> Subject: [DML] High Idle
> 
> 
> 
> I'm trying to tackle a problem I've had with my delorean for a long 
time.
> The idle is excessivly high, about 1500 RPMS.  I was thinking maybe 
the
> timing is off, could this cause it?  If so, do I adjust it by 
turning the
> distributor? Looks awfully tough to get to.
> 
> Jon








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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 16:38:13 -0000
From: "wayofcain" <wayofcain_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: High Idle



Additional info not atdded in the previous message. I have nopticed 
that the idle drops to the proper level when the AC is turned on.

Cain Grimes
002835

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> 
> Do not adjust the timing! There are lots of possible causes of an 
idle speed
> of 1500 RPM, ignition timing is not one of them. I'll leave 
suggestions on
> possible causes to some of the other list members.
> 
> DMC Joe  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JDub [mailto:doki_pen_at_dml_y...] 
> Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 9:05 PM
> To: DML
> Subject: [DML] High Idle
> 
> 
> 
> I'm trying to tackle a problem I've had with my delorean for a long 
time.
> The idle is excessivly high, about 1500 RPMS.  I was thinking maybe 
the
> timing is off, could this cause it?  If so, do I adjust it by 
turning the
> distributor? Looks awfully tough to get to.
> 
> Jon








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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 08:38:58 -0800 (PST)
From: JDub <doki_pen_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: High Idle


Thanks Joe, I will not touch the timing!

I read through the "Fuel, Emission  and Exhaust
system" section in the workshop manual and I think I
have a grasp now on how the whole shpeel works.  I'll
check all sensors/vacuum valves and make sure they are
opening and closing at the right temps.

I'll let you know what I come up with and if I manage
to start a fire. :)

Jon 

--- DMC Joe <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net> wrote:

> 
> 
> Do not adjust the timing! There are lots of possible
> causes of an idle speed
> of 1500 RPM, ignition timing is not one of them.
> I'll leave suggestions on
> possible causes to some of the other list members.
> 
> DMC Joe  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JDub [mailto:doki_pen_at_dml_yahoo.com] 
> Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 9:05 PM
> To: DML
> Subject: [DML] High Idle
> 
> 
> 
> I'm trying to tackle a problem I've had with my
> delorean for a long time.
> The idle is excessivly high, about 1500 RPMS.  I was
> thinking maybe the
> timing is off, could this cause it?  If so, do I
> adjust it by turning the
> distributor? Looks awfully tough to get to.
> 
> Jon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating
> team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> 
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for
> sale see www.dmcnews.com
> 
> To search the archives or view files, log in at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>     dmcnews-unsubscribe_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 






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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 17:25:38 -0000
From: "Chris Williams" <chris_at_dml_cwilliams68.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: door trouble...



This sounds like a really good plan, just had a look as a kind 
neighbour has locked me out of my car!
Is the auto tranmission plug on of the large multiplugs (red) with 
about 4 wires going in to it? one of these is green/white. or am I 
looking at the wrong plug?
Thanks

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, mike clemens <rmclemns_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
> Okay, This may take a while to read and understand,
> but enough of you folks asked, so I'll post the
> opening procedure that worked for me with zero
> damage to the car.
> 
> First, you need to open the engine compartment. 
> Open up the coat hangar completely and make a small
> hook in it.  From under the backside, hook the latch
> to open the engine cover.
> 
> Next remove the right angle cover (plastic) that
> covers the electrics in the front right of the engine
> compartment.  Locate the automatic transmission plug
> and tag the "LIGHT GREEN/WHITE" wire for future
> reference.
> 
> Next, carefully disconnect the car battery from the
> alternator, so there is no power on the car.  Tape the
> cable so it cannot touch anything.  THIS IS VERY
> IMPORTANT BECAUSE OF THE NEXT STEP!!
> 
> Next, jack up the car and remove the front left wheel.
> Then take that same coat hanger and wiggle it around
> the rubber grommet (hook side first) at the rear of
> the wheel well.  After you push it in about a foot or
> so, you will see it emerging in the drivers footwell. 
> Keep pushing and shaping the wire so it angles over to
> the drivers side window switch.  This will take
> numerous tries and much getting up and down because
> you can't see the wire while you feed it.  Lots of
> patience is required!!
> 
> Once you have got it next to the switch, hook under
> the backside of it so it will force the top (backside)
> of the switch up.  This is the same as pushing the
> window "down" side.  Now you are almost home.
> 
> Now, go back to the automatic transmission plug that
> you thought you'd never use, if you have a manual trans.
> Take the small jumper and connect the negative side of
> the lawnmower battery to a metal part on the engine.
> Connect the second jumper to the positive side of the
> battery and touch the other end of the lead to the
> (LIGHT GREEN/WHITE) wire in the plug.  Your toll window
> will come down and you can open the door using the
> inside handle.  You should hear the window moving.
> 
> For those of you who are wondering----the LIGHT
> GREEN/WHITE  wire connects to fuse #16, out of there
> it becomes WHITE/BLUE to a junction, then down to fuse
> #11, out of there it is LIGHT GREEN/WHITE to another
> junction and then up to the power window switch #77
> and into the motor.
> 
> This worked very well for me and as I said before, it
> beats the hell out of breaking a window.  If anyone
> sees a flaw in this, electrically, let me know since
> it has been a year since I had to do it.
> 
> Mike     Pizza Special








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Message: 12
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:13:01 -0600
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: High Idle


Jon, I will jump in and ask: Is the idle speed microswitch working properly.
If it's not adjusted so the top screw is engaging and turning off the vacuum
solenoid before the bottom screw goes to the rest position, or not working
at all the vacuum solenoid won't shut off the vacuum to the ignition
distributor which advances the timing and will cause the higher idle. Fuel
mixture and vacuum leaks along with Idle speed ECU and sensor could but not
likely. You could have a bad vacuum line somewhere else.
John Hervey
www.specialTauto.com




-----Original Message-----
From: JDub [mailto:doki_pen_at_dml_yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 8:05 PM
To: DML
Subject: [DML] High Idle




I'm trying to tackle a problem I've had with my
delorean for a long time.  The idle is excessivly
high, about 1500 RPMS.  I was thinking maybe the
timing is off, could this cause it?  If so, do I
adjust it by turning the distributor? Looks awfully
tough to get to.

Jon





To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
Yahoo! Groups Links













________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 13
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 18:01:02 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: Re: Delorean Fuel



Aside from what Tom wrote, I just want to add something from my own
personal experience.

I run 87 octane, and one step hotter sparkplugs than factory
reccomends. My car purrs like a kitten. Assuming that most kittens
have exhaust leaks, but never the less...

I started out using 89 octane, and then moved up to 92. I had a
noticeable decrease in performance. That all cleared up after I ran
thru two large bottles of Techron, and inserted the hotter sparkplugs.
Now I can run cheaper fuel, and I have no knocks.

Now, why your performance was bad when you used 87 octane, who knows.
There are a number of variables ranging from the carbon build-up in
your engine, to the water content in the gasoline. So who knows what
happened there.

Remember, there is no such thing as *grades* of gasoline. Octane is a
level of resistance to combustability. So the higher the #, the more
"retardant" it is. Gasoline is also equal across the board, in as no
matter what the octane rating, the BTUs will still be the same. You
WILL NOT generate more power from an engine, by increasing octane!!!

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <tomciodmc_at_dml_p...> wrote:
> 
> Hello
> 
> I could not resist and had to chime in on this subject. Every once in a
> while this subject comes up.
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "secret_jedi_guy"
> > I have been sticking with 91 and I put in an octane booster.
> 
> Why do you stick with 91 octane?? And why octane booster?? There must be
> something wrong with your engine. The DeLorean was designed for 87
octane
> fuel - unless you're outside the US, in that case yes - 91 is the
correct
> one.
> Once again:
> USA - 87 octane gasoline, R+M/2 method
> Europe - 91 octane gasoline
> Stick with what the car was designed for. If the engine is running
rough and
> you get poor mileage using the correct grade gas then there is something
> wrong. It should be fixed before it ends up being much bigger
problem. Using
> gas of higher octane rating will result in carbon deposits in the
combustion
> chambers and might lead to burning out the valve seats.
> 
> BTW, stay away from 100 octane fuel. It is meant to be used in highly
> modified engines with increased compression and power output - hence the
> word 'racing'.
> 
> Tom Niemczewski
> jamesik_at_dml_v...
> VIN 6149
> Save the dream so you can live the dream...








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 14
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 12:04:48 -0600
From: DMCVIN6683 <dmcvin6683_at_dml_wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Delorean Fuel


Funny...

When i had my Mustang GT with a Paxton blower on it i had to run 
91octaine or better in my car so i would avoid detonation, i had worse 
gas mileage because my car was designed to run on 87. When i spun the 
bearings in my supercharger and sent it off to be rebuilt i still had 
worse gas mileage running the 91 or better gas. I decided i wouldnt get 
the supercharger back for almost a month so i ran the 87 again and my 
gas mileage went back up 3 MPG.

You are not getting better MPG or power running the gas you are using, 
you just think you are Japheth.

The delorean can only burn what it is designed for and the rest goes 
out the exhaust pipes.

Read the story John Hervey posted 
http://www.mustangandfords.com/techarticles/30643/

Mark V





On Jan 18, 2005, at 11:22 AM, John Hervey wrote:

>
>
> Japheth, Here is a link as to running a higher octane # gas.
> John Hervey
> www.specialtauto.com
> http://www.mustangandfords.com/techarticles/30643/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: secret_jedi_guy [mailto:secret_jedi_guy_at_dml_yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 1:18 AM
> To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [DML] Delorean Fuel
>
>
>
>
>
> A gas station near my house has just started providing 100 octane
> unleaded racing fuel.  I'm not sure why, but it seems cool to me.  I
> was just wondering what fuel most people on the list use and if they
> have ever tried putting 100 oct. in their Deloreans before.  I put
> 87 in once and only once.  Performance and MPG sucked like a
> Hoover.  If anyone on the list has put in 100 oct., what were the
> side effects (e.g. performance, MPG, overheating, etc.)  I am just
> curious because I am thinking about trying it out.
>
> I have been sticking with 91 and I put in an octane booster.  Also
> to aid the fight for the K-Jet vs. Carburetion fight, I prefer my K-
> Jet now that I have given it a good cleaning including all six
> injectors.  Fuel delivery is very smooth.
>
> It would be really interesting to see that racing fuel in a DMCH
> Stage III engine.
>
> Japheth VIN: 1223
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see 
> www.dmcnews.com
>
> To search the archives or view files, log in at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see 
> www.dmcnews.com
>
> To search the archives or view files, log in at 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 15
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 13:07:23 -0600
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Parts Interchange lis update...Not necessary


Joe, Good Idea. I just had a person that called 30 minuets and his
alternator broke and I gave him the part number to look for locally which he
will find. I have done this several times in lue of trying to sell another
belt and make him wait.
Call anytime 9am till 9pm
John Hervey
972-564-9321 office
972-672-3739 emergency cell





-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Kuchan [mailto:josephkuchan_at_dml_hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 10:15 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [DML] Parts Interchange lis update...Not necessary




Unless you happen to be on the road 1500 miles from home and the only handy
option is a local parts store. Then it might not be a bad thing to have a
cross-reference in your road emergency kit so that you don't have to take a
motel for an extra couple of nights while you wait for the Fed-X guy to show
up with what might be available a few blocks away.

-Joe Kuchan


>Ok, I did some research using my list and checking it with multiple
>delorean
>parts websites and found that most of the generic parts on my interchange
>list were the same price (or less) than the real delorean parts.  I am
>going
>to do some more research but so far it seems pointless to buy a part thats
>not made for a delorean when you can get the right part for the same price.







To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
Yahoo! Groups Links













________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 16
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 16:59:41 -0000
From: "stainlessilusion" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>
Subject: Re: Carburator (David T)



Lets NOT forget that many of us have our OWN preferences when it comes
to OUR cars...I didn't read anyone say that carburetion is superior to
fuel injection, just preferred over it when it comes to the DeLorean.
WHY?-Consider that there's a lot of us..(well at least 1 person!) that
don't have a few thousand to put into a new EFI system. I have 5 cars
pay insurance on 2 buy parts for all, pay rent; pay tuition for
college the list goes on. I've been dealing with issues from the FI
system for a while, and getting frustrated with it-instead of the
guessing game, I want to replace it-without spending a ton while
looking the benefits from carb. 3 out of 5 of the cars I currently own
right now are carbureted (with no problems at all I'd like to add-1950
Buick runs better then 81 DeLorean and that carb isn't even rebuilt!),
its what I PREFER, what's so wrong with that, why are we being bashed
because of our preferences? -----Dani B. #5003

> If carburators are so great why don't I hear about ditching the
> electronic spark. Points worked for over 70 years so we should go back
> to that! And what about those complicated automatic transmissions?
> They are too fussy to make work so we should just convert all of them
> to 5-speeds! As you can see this line of reasoning makes no sense at
> all! For all the effort you will put into going backwards you could
> have made the origional systems work. In fact it would probably turn
> out to be less work to go foward and try to install a Megasquirt! For
> those that think carburation is superior to fuel injection, I would
> say it is time to learn about fuel injection! Carburators are only for
> nostalgia and those who won't move along into the 21st century.
> Instead of changing jets and bending linkages you adjust fuel
> injection from the passenger's seat on a laptop ON THE FLY!
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757
> 
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "endotex23" <endotex23_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_c...>
wrote: 
> > 
> > > Perhaps you meant to say "carburetion is tried and true
technology"?<
> > 
> > Hmmm, it seems you and others are missing the point. EFI is far from
> > new and is also tried and true technology.
> > 
> > > True, carburetion does not meet everyone's needs. But for those of
> > > like mind (at least half a dozen on this List), it is a fool proof
> > and trouble free method of fuel delivery.<
> > 
> >








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 17
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:20:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Jake Kamphoefner <jakekamp_at_dml_sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Parts Interchange lis update...Not necessary


 
I agree with both Cain and Joe Kuchan about the side of road repairs.  I'd never admit that a cross for belts, fuel pump, and similar is a bad thing to have.  --But there's only so much you can replace while on the road.
 
Something else I should add is that knowledge is the best tool.  Do a "once-over" of your critical systems before a long trip and you can avoid most road-side problems.  I've prevented likely problems before by noticing it before it happened.  Though I don't do it myself, it really is a good idea to carry some spare stuff in your trunk.
 
One day I'll get around to assembling one of those "emergency packs" that we talked about a while back on this list.
 
Jake Kamphoefner
1063


wayofcain <wayofcain_at_dml_yahoo.com> wrote:


I would like to have an up to date interchange list not for permanent 
repairs but for emergency fixes. I have found myself wary of taking 
my Delorean on anything over a 4 hour trip for fear of a mild 
breakdown disabling the car and no parts being available. Especially 
on a weekend when few vendors are available and the most travel 
occurs. We can bring the tools with us but have to wait for shipping 
on the parts.

I have long thought that a glove box part interchange companion would 
be wise investment for anyone traveling in a Delorean. This would 
allow us to stop at any parts distributor and purchase stop gap 
repairs to get the car safely home where a proper repair could be 
made. I know that if a vendor sold one or there was a way to 
subscribe to one that would be replaced yearly with updates. I would 
be number one on the sign up sheet.

Cain Grimes
002835



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 18
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 21:25:18 -0000
From: "cajunsprint" <carldavis_at_dml_familykia.com>
Subject: RUSTED FRAMES



 Hello, I was wondering if anyone knew if a rusted front frame on a 
81 Delorean could be welded and be fine, I just found that the right 
front extension to the wheel is rusted through and also the same 
side at the top where a smalled bar goes back  into the body, when 
you push up and down on the sway bar(when the vehicle is in the air) 
the whole frame will move with it, appreciate any info as this is my 
first Delorean and do not want to get into more than I bargained for.








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 19
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 13:55:57 -0800
From: "Owen _at_dml_ Aerodrome" <owen_at_dml_aerodrome.us>
Subject: Re: Re: Carburator (David T)


stainlessilusion wrote:
> 
> 
> Lets NOT forget that many of us have our OWN preferences when it comes
> to OUR cars...I didn't read anyone say that carburetion is superior to
> fuel injection, just preferred over it when it comes to the DeLorean.
> WHY?-Consider that there's a lot of us..(well at least 1 person!) that
> don't have a few thousand to put into a new EFI system. I have 5 cars
> pay insurance on 2 buy parts for all, pay rent; pay tuition for
> college the list goes on. I've been dealing with issues from the FI
> system for a while, and getting frustrated with it-instead of the
> guessing game, I want to replace it-without spending a ton while
> looking the benefits from carb. 3 out of 5 of the cars I currently own
> right now are carbureted (with no problems at all I'd like to add-1950
> Buick runs better then 81 DeLorean and that carb isn't even rebuilt!),
> its what I PREFER, what's so wrong with that, why are we being bashed
> because of our preferences? -----Dani B. #5003

Wait -- I just put it together.  Aren't you the one moving to California?  Are you planning to leave your carbureted DeLorean behind?  You know you won't be able to register it here, right?

Regards,
Owen





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 20
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 22:07:53 -0000
From: "stainlessilusion" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>
Subject: Re: RUSTED FRAMES



First of all if the front ext. frame is bending with the swaybar then
DON'T drive the car anymore, you're risking the frame extension
breaking causing even more damage and injury. I fixed my frame
extension first by welding plates over the bad areas-only to get a few
more months use out of the car-1 year later I cut the whole front 1/3
of the frame off and grafted on a new 1/3 front section, beautiful
condition-not sure why it was cut-perhaps rear frame damage. Seems
like you only need the front extension, if you weld a new one on there
then you should be fine-just have it professionally done so there is
no alignment issues. If your front end is rusted out, I'm sure there
are other areas in the rear of the frame that are bad too-you may what
to check that out. If you want more info on the work I did to my frame
contact me off list-----Dani B. #5003

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "cajunsprint" <carldavis_at_dml_f...> wrote:
> 
> 
>  Hello, I was wondering if anyone knew if a rusted front frame on a 
> 81 Delorean could be welded and be fine, I just found that the right 
> front extension to the wheel is rusted through and also the same 
> side at the top where a smalled bar goes back  into the body, when 
> you push up and down on the sway bar(when the vehicle is in the air) 
> the whole frame will move with it, appreciate any info as this is my 
> first Delorean and do not want to get into more than I bargained for.








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 21
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 23:42:22 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>
Subject: Re: RUSTED FRAMES



Unfortunately you already are dealing with more than you bargained 
for, depending on the bargain you got. This is probably about the 
worst thing to have to deal with on the car. Based on your 
description its probably unsafe to drive. 

"Fine" is a relative term - if you find someone that knows what they 
are doing with a welder you can buy some time, but eventually it's 
going to need some serious work if you just keep welding more steel 
on top of bad. The steel itself is pretty light gauge, and based on 
your description there is not much to weld to. It's hard to get to 
everything that you need to with the body in the way. I've seen some 
very good attempts at welding repair, and some really awful work too -
 stuff that looks positively agricultural. 

Faced with this, you want find a good welder and make sure its safe 
enough to drive while you go shopping for a good frame. That will 
take the pressure off and allow you to do some shopping/learning/ 
planning.  They are not all that hard to find from cars getting 
parted for other reasons, and the swap job can be done in a weekend 
if you have a large group of semi-motivated people (Hi Josh!). 
Working more normally figure between a week and a couple of months 
depending on your garage and attention to detail. 

Dave S


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "cajunsprint" <carldavis_at_dml_f...> wrote:
> 
> 
>  Hello, I was wondering if anyone knew if a rusted front frame on a 
> 81 Delorean could be welded and be fine, I just found that the 
right 
> front extension to the wheel is rusted through and also the same 
> side at the top where a smalled bar goes back  into the body, when 
> you push up and down on the sway bar(when the vehicle is in the 
air) 
> the whole frame will move with it, appreciate any info as this is 
my 
> first Delorean and do not want to get into more than I bargained 
for.








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 22
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 19:18:20 -0500
From: Josh Haldeman <jhaldeman_at_dml_fuse.net>
Subject: Re: RUSTED FRAMES


Ugh...bad news man!  I helped a guy named Mike Luckey replace his rusted 
frame with a new one recently because he had what sounds like very 
similar problems.

You can weld it...but don't expect that to be a permanent solution, and 
based on what Mike told me about his experiences, good luck finding 
someone willing to do it.  Most welders don't want to be held liable in 
case it breaks on you while you're going 60 mph down the highway.  You 
best bet is to find a cheap refurbished frame, or Bryan Pearce's 
stainless steel frame and swap it out with what's in there.  It took me 
and Mike about three months to do his, and I'm going to start helping 
another guy do his this March.  Be glad to offer any pointers or hints 
that I can along the way.  Where are you located?

BTW, I would stop driving your car RIGHT NOW until you get the frame 
rust checked out further.  If any of the multiple suspension contact 
points are rusted through, PARK THE CAR!  Mike Luckey will tell you why.

-Josh


cajunsprint wrote:

>
> Hello, I was wondering if anyone knew if a rusted front frame on a 
>81 Delorean could be welded and be fine, I just found that the right 
>front extension to the wheel is rusted through and also the same 
>side at the top where a smalled bar goes back  into the body, when 
>you push up and down on the sway bar(when the vehicle is in the air) 
>the whole frame will move with it, appreciate any info as this is my 
>first Delorean and do not want to get into more than I bargained for.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
>moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
>For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com
>
>To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>  
>






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 23
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 00:26:35 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: High Idle



To fix a "high idle" problem the first thing to do is to go over all
the linkage and cables. You must have full travel, it must work
smoothly, and it MUST return all the way back to idle with the spring
pressure. Over time the system gets dirty, the grease gets gummy,
things get bent and worn. Look particulary at the quadrant link (the
short link with the 2 ball ends) that goes from the throttle spool to
the throttle arm for play.  Look for play at the thottle spool where
the quadrant link attaches to the ball, they loosen up. Also check
that with the gas pedal all the way down you get full throttle
opening. When you release the accelerator the linkage should go all
the way back down and just trip the idle micro. It may require taking
the throttle spool apart and cleaning and lubricating, lubricating the
throttle cable with anti-freeze as per the recall, and adjusting the
stop and idle micro screws. You can also move the spring in the
throttle spool over one notch to increase the spring pressure but that
will give you a stiffer pedal. Not great for long drives.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_s...> wrote:
> 
> Jon, I will jump in and ask: Is the idle speed microswitch working
properly.
> If it's not adjusted so the top screw is engaging and turning off
the vacuum
> solenoid before the bottom screw goes to the rest position, or not
working









________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 24
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 16:37:01 -0800 (PST)
From: mike clemens <rmclemns_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: door trouble...


Chris,

If you have a 5-speed, it is the large plug that is
not connected to anything.  If you have an automatic,
I believe it is the plug with 8 wires coming out, but
I can't swear to that since I am on the road and do
not have my schematic with me.  I will be back home on
Sunday and will verify for sure, if you wish.

Mike      Pizza Special


--- Chris Williams <chris_at_dml_cwilliams68.fsnet.co.uk>
wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> This sounds like a really good plan, just had a look
> as a kind 
> neighbour has locked me out of my car!
> Is the auto tranmission plug on of the large
> multiplugs (red) with 
> about 4 wires going in to it? one of these is
> green/white. or am I 
> looking at the wrong plug?
> Thanks
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, mike clemens
> <rmclemns_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> > 
> > Okay, This may take a while to read and
> understand,
> > but enough of you folks asked, so I'll post the
> > opening procedure that worked for me with zero
> > damage to the car.
> > 
> > First, you need to open the engine compartment. 
> > Open up the coat hangar completely and make a
> small
> > hook in it.  From under the backside, hook the
> latch
> > to open the engine cover.
> > 
> > Next remove the right angle cover (plastic) that
> > covers the electrics in the front right of the
> engine
> > compartment.  Locate the automatic transmission
> plug
> > and tag the "LIGHT GREEN/WHITE" wire for future
> > reference.
> > 
> > Next, carefully disconnect the car battery from
> the
> > alternator, so there is no power on the car.  Tape
> the
> > cable so it cannot touch anything.  THIS IS VERY
> > IMPORTANT BECAUSE OF THE NEXT STEP!!
> > 
> > Next, jack up the car and remove the front left
> wheel.
> > Then take that same coat hanger and wiggle it
> around
> > the rubber grommet (hook side first) at the rear
> of
> > the wheel well.  After you push it in about a foot
> or
> > so, you will see it emerging in the drivers
> footwell. 
> > Keep pushing and shaping the wire so it angles
> over to
> > the drivers side window switch.  This will take
> > numerous tries and much getting up and down
> because
> > you can't see the wire while you feed it.  Lots of
> > patience is required!!
> > 
> > Once you have got it next to the switch, hook
> under
> > the backside of it so it will force the top
> (backside)
> > of the switch up.  This is the same as pushing the
> > window "down" side.  Now you are almost home.
> > 
> > Now, go back to the automatic transmission plug
> that
> > you thought you'd never use, if you have a manual
> trans.
> > Take the small jumper and connect the negative
> side of
> > the lawnmower battery to a metal part on the
> engine.
> > Connect the second jumper to the positive side of
> the
> > battery and touch the other end of the lead to the
> > (LIGHT GREEN/WHITE) wire in the plug.  Your toll
> window
> > will come down and you can open the door using the
> > inside handle.  You should hear the window moving.
> > 
> > For those of you who are wondering----the LIGHT
> > GREEN/WHITE  wire connects to fuse #16, out of
> there
> > it becomes WHITE/BLUE to a junction, then down to
> fuse
> > #11, out of there it is LIGHT GREEN/WHITE to
> another
> > junction and then up to the power window switch
> #77
> > and into the motor.
> > 
> > This worked very well for me and as I said before,
> it
> > beats the hell out of breaking a window.  If
> anyone
> > sees a flaw in this, electrically, let me know
> since
> > it has been a year since I had to do it.
> > 
> > Mike     Pizza Special
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating
> team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> 
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for
> sale see www.dmcnews.com
> 
> To search the archives or view files, log in at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>     dmcnews-unsubscribe_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 



		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. 
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 25
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 00:37:07 -0000
From: "p12c16" <PRC1216_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Delorean Fuel



This debate is going to have many different preferences, like what oil to use (10W30) :) but 
if you are going to store your car for the winter or not drive it much, put in a higher 
octane.  91 breaks down slower than say the 87 would sitting in the tank.  Also, as I recall, 
in the '81 owners manual all of the readings for gas mileage, performance, etc and all of 
those specs say that the car was tested using 91 octane fuel.  So its hard to tell exactly 
what the DeLorean was designed to run on.  Also, the higher octanes like Shell V-Power 
typically have more cleaners in them that help clean out fuel injectors and the like (or so I 
am told)

Patrick
1880

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, DMCVIN6683 <dmcvin6683_at_dml_w...> wrote:
> 
> Funny...
> 
> When i had my Mustang GT with a Paxton blower on it i had to run 
> 91octaine or better in my car so i would avoid detonation, i had worse 
> gas mileage because my car was designed to run on 87. When i spun the 
> bearings in my supercharger and sent it off to be rebuilt i still had 
> worse gas mileage running the 91 or better gas. I decided i wouldnt get 
> the supercharger back for almost a month so i ran the 87 again and my 
> gas mileage went back up 3 MPG.
> 
> You are not getting better MPG or power running the gas you are using, 
> you just think you are Japheth.
> 
> The delorean can only burn what it is designed for and the rest goes 
> out the exhaust pipes.
> 
> Read the story John Hervey posted 
> http://www.mustangandfords.com/techarticles/30643/
> 
> Mark V
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 18, 2005, at 11:22 AM, John Hervey wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > Japheth, Here is a link as to running a higher octane # gas.
> > John Hervey
> > www.specialtauto.com
> > http://www.mustangandfords.com/techarticles/30643/
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: secret_jedi_guy [mailto:secret_jedi_guy_at_dml_y...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 1:18 AM
> > To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [DML] Delorean Fuel
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > A gas station near my house has just started providing 100 octane
> > unleaded racing fuel.  I'm not sure why, but it seems cool to me.  I
> > was just wondering what fuel most people on the list use and if they
> > have ever tried putting 100 oct. in their Deloreans before.  I put
> > 87 in once and only once.  Performance and MPG sucked like a
> > Hoover.  If anyone on the list has put in 100 oct., what were the
> > side effects (e.g. performance, MPG, overheating, etc.)  I am just
> > curious because I am thinking about trying it out.
> >
> > I have been sticking with 91 and I put in an octane booster.  Also
> > to aid the fight for the K-Jet vs. Carburetion fight, I prefer my K-
> > Jet now that I have given it a good cleaning including all six
> > injectors.  Fuel delivery is very smooth.
> >
> > It would be really interesting to see that racing fuel in a DMCH
> > Stage III engine.
> >
> > Japheth VIN: 1223
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> > moderators_at_dml_d...
> >
> > For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see 
> > www.dmcnews.com
> >
> > To search the archives or view files, log in at
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
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> > To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
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To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
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