From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2445
Date: Monday, January 24, 2005 8:24 PM


There are 21 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Upgrading the ignition system?
From: "John Rydholm" <ebondefender_at_dml_yahoo.com>

2. Re: ??DeLoreans for rent in Southwest Missouri??
From: "thebrave65" <johnnysher1_at_dml_cox.net>

3. Re: 3 post idle microswitch
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

4. ERRATIC AUTO TRANS
From: "delor_01" <JOHN.JORDAN_at_dml_ED.GOV>

5. Re: Re: 3 post idle microswitch
From: Martin Gutkowski <martin_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

6. Re: Monster Nation - Rich W.'s Delorean Projects (Jan. 2005)
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>

7. RE: Re: 3 post idle microswitch
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>

8. Re: 3 post idle microswitch
From: "wayofcain" <wayofcain_at_dml_yahoo.com>

9. Frozen speedo cable?
From: "mydmc5898" <mydmc5898_at_dml_yahoo.com>

10. Re: ??DeLoreans for rent in Southwest Missouri??
From: "erikgeerdink" <erikgeerdink_at_dml_yahoo.com>

11. Re: ERRATIC AUTO TRANS
From: "sweitzel_2000" <sweitzel_at_dml_lffltd.com>

12. Re: 3 post idle microswitch
From: "endotex23" <endotex23_at_dml_yahoo.com>

13. Who wants "TRUE" HID headlights???
From: "turbodelorean" <dmcfan_at_dml_hotmail.com>

14. Proto 1 Looking for flap sander
From: "dmcproto1" <DMCPROTO1_at_dml_aol.com>

15. RE: ERRATIC AUTO TRANS
From: "Dave Sontos" <dsontos_at_dml_verizon.net>

16. Re: 3 post idle microswitch
From: "endotex23" <endotex23_at_dml_yahoo.com>

17. Re: Proto 1 Looking for flap sander
From: DMCVIN6683 <dmcvin6683_at_dml_wi.rr.com>

18. Re: Proto 1 Looking for flap sander
From: "painterdave72" <painterdave72_at_dml_yahoo.com>

19. Johnny Carson
From: "dmcjoe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

20. Re: Who wants "TRUE" HID headlights???
From: "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>

21. Re: Who wants "TRUE" HID headlights???
From: "endotex23" <endotex23_at_dml_yahoo.com>





Message: 1
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 19:06:16 -0000
From: "John Rydholm" <ebondefender_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Upgrading the ignition system?



Hello all,
I was wondering what anyone's opinion is on those Hy-fire ignition 
system upgrades? Would that improve gas mileage/engine efficiency 
any? I recently got some spark plug wires from John Hervey's site; 
the 8mm custom ones and they are pretty good. What are your thoughts?
PS: My dad said there was no coil involved with that. Is that true?? 
How could you start the car without a coil? That may be a stupid 
question but I worked a lot this week with minimal sleep so bear with 
me. I think I see two monitors right now.








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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 19:10:43 -0000
From: "thebrave65" <johnnysher1_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: Re: ??DeLoreans for rent in Southwest Missouri??



"...and I would be glad to come and pick the car up anywhere within
250 miles of Aurora, MO. (65605)."

Yeah, I bet you would be glad to do that.

I can't speak for all owners, but here's my take on your "DeLorean
Rental for Prom Night":

If anyone does acutally rent their cars out, they usually accompany
the car themselves by driving it and staying with the vehicle if it is
to be driven at all.  If it is a display piece, it is usually locked
or roped off and, again, the owner usually stays with it.

My guess is you are attending the prom and want an exotic vehicle for
your night out.  If that's the case, you're too young to LEAGALLY rent
a vehicle without a paretnal signature and then the parent has to be
the one driving it.  You gotta be at least 25 years of age in some
states to rent a car.

Will I ever rent my car out for events?  That depends if my insurance
will allow it, (probably not which is fine).  If so, I will be the one
driving it at all times and I won't be far from where I can keep an
eye on it.

Johnny
5518








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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 19:16:09 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: 3 post idle microswitch



Someone famous (I can't remember who) once said "Common knowledge is
not so common". Too many times I take the really simple stuff for
granted and there are many out there that not only do they not know
about switches, they don't know about multi-meters! Gregg's
explaination is very though but anyone who doesn't know this stuff
really should go out and buy a basic primer on automotive electrical
systems. They are not that complex, at least on the older cars. Try
Classicmotorbook.com for starters or a large bookstore or even your
local library. The DML is not meant to teach something so basic, it is
expected that YOU (the reader) bring some basic level of knowledge to
the table. Hey, if half of the people asking technical questions
bothered to read and understand the Workshop Manual there would be a
lot less questions. Much of what we go over on the List is in there
albiet with little explanation. It was meant for mechanics with an
advanced level of skill.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "endotex23" <endotex23_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Good Lord, such a fuss over something so simple. Instead of giving out
> fish let's try and teach fishing. Apologies to those who already know
> this very basic stuff.
> 
> As Martin points it's a single pole, double throw switch. All switches
> have two parts 1) The electrical portion that does the actual
> switching of current and 2) The actuating portion. The two portions
> are mechanically interconnected but electrically isolated from each
> other. (After all, you don't what electricity on your switch
> actuator).
> 
> The term single pole refers to the electrical portion. It simply means
> the switch is designed to switch only one electrical circuit, or
> "pole". The normally open (NO), normally closed (NC) and common (C)
> refer to the switch's contact state when the actuating portion is
> *not* active. The "throw" part also refers to the electrical portion
> of the switch. Pressing the lever results in the internal contact
> "throwing" one way and releasing it results in it "throwing" the other
> 








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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 19:55:03 -0000
From: "delor_01" <JOHN.JORDAN_at_dml_ED.GOV>
Subject: ERRATIC AUTO TRANS





I have an auto trans that starts out in second gear--stays there for 
about 10 or 15 min then will shift into 3rd.  once it shifts it will 
work ok until I stop for 2 or 3 hours.  Then it goes back to second 
gear for 10 or 15 minutes.

I have a rebuilt computer gov in the car.   any suggestions?

re:  John  








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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 20:15:10 +0000
From: Martin Gutkowski <martin_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Re: 3 post idle microswitch


David Teitelbaum wrote:

>
> Obviously it has to be
>either the NO or the NC terminal (I wasn't going to make it so easy
>for him). If he took 5 minutes with a multi-meter he wouldn't have had
>to post the question in the first place. Sometimes giving the direct
>answer is not the "best" answer. Anyone working on a car (including
>Deloreans) ought to get to know a multi-meter and how to use it. 
>
David, I've disagreed with you on several small issues in the past, but 
what you just wrote there goes to the very root of my work too. I'm glad 
someone else said it! I'll tell you how it confused me once - I hadn't 
assembled the engine and only visually checked that the wires were 
connected as they should be. I'd never come across a 3-pin switch at the 
time. My quick test to see if the idle micro is working is to turn the 
ignition on and see if clicking the switch makes the vacuum solenoid 
behind the metering head clunk - two birds with one stone. 
Unfortunately, it was switching on when it should be switching off, and 
vice versa. As soon as I spotted the 3rd terminal, I did exactly that, a 
couple of beeps on the meter later and it was working fine.

While we're on the subject of the iddlsespeed valve: Exactly WHY does 
the idlespeed system need to know when to turn on? If it were hard-wired 
all the time, surely it would just close when the throttle wasn't at idle?

I've adjusted countless throttle plate screws,  throttle link rods and 
springs. it's amazing what 5 minutes spent on a car will do for a smooth 
idle :-)

Martin





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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 20:33:35 -0000
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>
Subject: Re: Monster Nation - Rich W.'s Delorean Projects (Jan. 2005)



FYI - Just another last minute reminder for those of you who want
to watch or record the show.  Replay is this afternoon, Jan. 24.
 
Jan 24 2005 _at_dml_ 05:00 PM Eastern   Monster Nation   Episode 28    

One of the comments I have seen in several emails to me has been
too bad they did not show footage of the Grand National Delorean.
Actually, all the new Delorean driving footage shown during the
segment (and the two teasers earlier in the show) was me driving
the Grand National powered Delorean and not one of my stock D's.
The give-aways are the GNX type wheels and the 88 licence plate.

Discovery Channel appears to be putting the new Monster Nation
episodes in high replay rotation and although I do not see this
episode scheduled for February, by the looks of current rotation,
it appears that Episode 28 should replay again as ealry as March.

Later,
Rich W. 








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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 21:55:55 +0100
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>
Subject: RE: Re: 3 post idle microswitch



Well Martin,
the idle switch doesn't turn the idle ECU off at all.
Instead it rises the idle speed to about 1200...1500rpm.
Why ? because it would never be fast enough to jump in and to catch 
the engine before going off.

Ever wondered why idle is so high when the switch isn't being pushed but
the butterflys are completely closed ?
No, ignition advance isn't the only reason.

Elvis & 6548



While we're on the subject of the iddlsespeed valve: Exactly WHY does 
the idlespeed system need to know when to turn on? If it were hard-wired 
all the time, surely it would just close when the throttle wasn't at idle?

I've adjusted countless throttle plate screws,  throttle link rods and 
springs. it's amazing what 5 minutes spent on a car will do for a smooth 
idle :-)

Martin






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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 21:21:21 -0000
From: "wayofcain" <wayofcain_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 3 post idle microswitch



Before this goes any further I would like to clarify something.

I posted my question before going outside into the cold temperatures 
to attach the switch in hopes of receiving a two line answer. Not to 
be berated and have asumptions made toward my intelligence and common 
sense.

I DID call John Hervey and DID leave him a message. I also called 2 
other times that day and did not leave a message, so as to not fill 
his answering machine with garbage. I know he is there 7 days a week, 
so on and so forth. I knew he WOULD get back to me in good time but I 
had limited time and needed to get the job finished. 

I decided the man might be busy elsewhere so I posted here. Life 
happens.

I didn't need to do all of the troubleshooting with a multimeter 
since the answer was already available. One of you had to have it. 

I also didn't want to risk connecting it incorrectly because I didn't 
know what damage could occur if it was done wrong. The "experts" 
would. Instead of getting a 2 line answer from the so 
called "experts", I get a truckload of insults from my fellow 
Delorean owners, both publicly and privately. Which is absolutely 
uncalled for.

Section 2 of the DMLrules reads:
"Topics should deal with anything concerning owning, fixing, driving, 
restoring, detailing, or anything else tangential with what it takes 
to live with these unique and affordable automobiles."

I have read these rules. Nowhere does it state that a question has to 
pass some sort of technical threshold before it should be asked. If 
there is a milestone that should be crossed before bothering all of 
the "experts", I ask that the rules be modified to reflect it.

Section 2 also reads:
"The decision of the moderator as to what is obscene, intolerant,or 
not in keeping with 'spirit' of the list is final."

I ask the moderators, "What is the 'Spirit' of the list? I certainly 
can't say I have come away from this with a good feeling.

I ask all of you who decide to reply to this to please be adults 
about it. Remember, the question that started this whole thing 
required nothing more than a single sentence answer. I don't think I 
am being unreasonable in asking for respectful replies.

I would also like to clarify that my need for a quick answer, 
Saturday, in no way reflects poorly on John Hervey's "SpecialTauto" 
service. He is always the number one person I call when I need parts.

Cain Grimes
002835


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> 
wrote:
> 
> 
> Someone famous (I can't remember who) once said "Common knowledge is
> not so common". Too many times I take the really simple stuff for
> granted and there are many out there that not only do they not know
> about switches, they don't know about multi-meters! Gregg's
> explaination is very though but anyone who doesn't know this stuff
> really should go out and buy a basic primer on automotive electrical
> systems. They are not that complex, at least on the older cars. Try
> Classicmotorbook.com for starters or a large bookstore or even your
> local library. The DML is not meant to teach something so basic, it 
is
> expected that YOU (the reader) bring some basic level of knowledge 
to
> the table. Hey, if half of the people asking technical questions
> bothered to read and understand the Workshop Manual there would be a
> lot less questions. Much of what we go over on the List is in there
> albiet with little explanation. It was meant for mechanics with an
> advanced level of skill.
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757
> 
> 
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "endotex23" <endotex23_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Good Lord, such a fuss over something so simple. Instead of 
giving out
> > fish let's try and teach fishing. Apologies to those who already 
know
> > this very basic stuff.
> > 
> > As Martin points it's a single pole, double throw switch. All 
switches
> > have two parts 1) The electrical portion that does the actual
> > switching of current and 2) The actuating portion. The two 
portions
> > are mechanically interconnected but electrically isolated from 
each
> > other. (After all, you don't what electricity on your switch
> > actuator).
> > 
> > The term single pole refers to the electrical portion. It simply 
means
> > the switch is designed to switch only one electrical circuit, or
> > "pole". The normally open (NO), normally closed (NC) and common 
(C)
> > refer to the switch's contact state when the actuating portion is
> > *not* active. The "throw" part also refers to the electrical 
portion
> > of the switch. Pressing the lever results in the internal contact
> > "throwing" one way and releasing it results in it "throwing" the 
other
> >








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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 21:24:46 -0000
From: "mydmc5898" <mydmc5898_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Frozen speedo cable?



Hi everyone, got another little pest here. I've had my car now on 
the road since early Jan, and put maybe 300 miles on it. However the 
other day going to school my speedomoter stoped working, its the new 
one from PJ Gardys so I don't think it would have failed so soon it 
only has around 1,000 miles on before and after the conversion to a 
5-speed. But can it be the cold weather causeing this? I had it out 
a total of of 1hr and even after the car heated it up it still 
didn't work. I don't have a way to test it right now with the snow, 
but can it possibly just freez?
Thanks Darryl
VIN 5898








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Message: 10
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 21:36:16 -0000
From: "erikgeerdink" <erikgeerdink_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: ??DeLoreans for rent in Southwest Missouri??



I tried "renting" a Delorean for my Prom back in the day.  there were 
a few owners in my area that had Deloreans.  I just didn't understand 
why they wouldn't let me.  I was a good kick.  No record. I knew I 
wouldn't do anything to it.  But now that I have a Delorean, I'm 
sorry, but I would never rent it out to a highschool kid.  
Sorry man, I've been there.  People don't rent exotic cars out to 
highschoolers UNLESS they are family members.  Even then.....

Good luck,
Erik


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "thebrave65" <johnnysher1_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> 
> 
> "...and I would be glad to come and pick the car up anywhere within
> 250 miles of Aurora, MO. (65605)."
> 
> Yeah, I bet you would be glad to do that.
> 
> I can't speak for all owners, but here's my take on your "DeLorean
> Rental for Prom Night":
> 
> If anyone does acutally rent their cars out, they usually accompany
> the car themselves by driving it and staying with the vehicle if it 
is
> to be driven at all.  If it is a display piece, it is usually locked
> or roped off and, again, the owner usually stays with it.
> 
> My guess is you are attending the prom and want an exotic vehicle 
for
> your night out.  If that's the case, you're too young to LEAGALLY 
rent
> a vehicle without a paretnal signature and then the parent has to be
> the one driving it.  You gotta be at least 25 years of age in some
> states to rent a car.
> 
> Will I ever rent my car out for events?  That depends if my 
insurance
> will allow it, (probably not which is fine).  If so, I will be the 
one
> driving it at all times and I won't be far from where I can keep an
> eye on it.
> 
> Johnny
> 5518








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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 21:32:29 -0000
From: "sweitzel_2000" <sweitzel_at_dml_lffltd.com>
Subject: Re: ERRATIC AUTO TRANS



I would recheck your gov boards again. I had to re-work the 2 boards
on mine three times because i kept making stupid mistakes like
accidentally bridging some of the tiny solder traces together and not
noticing. Also, when you rebuilt your GC, did you replace the TIP-42C
transistors and add .01uf filter caps per Mark Hershey's article?
http://www.dmcnews.com/Techsection/transputer3.htm

also, check to make sure the cable didn't fall onto the exhaust
manifld and melt through the insulation.

-sean


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "delor_01" <JOHN.JORDAN_at_dml_E...> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have an auto trans that starts out in second gear--stays there for 
> about 10 or 15 min then will shift into 3rd.  once it shifts it will 
> work ok until I stop for 2 or 3 hours.  Then it goes back to second 
> gear for 10 or 15 minutes.
> 
> I have a rebuilt computer gov in the car.   any suggestions?
> 
> re:  John








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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 21:48:06 -0000
From: "endotex23" <endotex23_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 3 post idle microswitch



 

I agree with David too. While I believe it's important to learn as
much as you can some people are so technically inept (no offense
intended) they should bite the bullet and pay to have the problem
corrected. If you're going to service your own cars you need to invest
in the basic tools, instruments, and knowledge to do so. It can be a
fine line to walk at times for those just starting out.

By the way, Elvis is right. As much technical writing as I've done I
should know better than to use words like "kill" and "power". If power
to the ECU was killed it would stop the motor at a random position.
Because the Delorean uses a duty controlled rotary valve for ISC this
wouldn't be good. The idle ECU remains powered at all times but if I
had written the idle speed switch supplies an active low input sunked
to ground it would've only confused matters. Sometimes things just
have to be dumbed down and the poster in question didn't even
understand basic switch operation.

Martin, the ECU sets the motor to a default duty value when that input
is brought low. It's the same default value as when the tach input is
lost. One of the ways (there are several but the manual only gives one
as I recall) to test the idle speed loop is to disconnect the switch
when the throttle plates are fully closed and observe a rise in RPM as
Elvis points out. Either that or crack the throttle enough to open the
switch and manually depress it to observe a drop in RPM as the loop
becomes active. You can even do a crude check for unmetered air using
the system. I prefer a more enhanced method than either of those but
the one in the book is good enough for a basic check. 

Greg





 








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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 22:53:19 -0000
From: "turbodelorean" <dmcfan_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Who wants "TRUE" HID headlights???



These kits should be available in the very near future, around March. 
This kit is the true way to get HID lighting. This is not like the 
Xenarc kit or any other Xenon headlights that are available for the 
DeLorean. This kit includeds:

4 perfectly clear housings, the 2 low beam housings have HID 
projectors fabricated in them. The projectors used are from the 
European Audi A4 headlights. The projectors also have custom machined 
and polished bezels around them for appearence.

2 philips D2S HID bulbs(these are the REAL HID bulbs)
2 H4 high beam bulbs
2 HID ballasts
All the wiring and realys needed to work this kit along with detailed 
install instructions. 

I have a pic of the low beam projector housings if anyone wants to 
see what it looks like. TRUE HID lighting uses projectors and these 
bulbs for the most light output. None of the other kits out there 
come close to these headlights. Feel free to check out the pricing 
for all this hardware at any Porsche, Audi, BMW dealership. If you 
bought everything from the dealership above it will cost you over 
$1700 for just parts then you would have to fabricate the housings 
yourself. This kit is well worth what the estimated asking price of 
$1,100. The HID bulbs alone retail for $180 EACH! Look at any BMW, 
AUDI, ETC. coming at you at night, that is the exact look these 
headlights produce. 

Note: due to the power these headlights put out it is highly 
recommended that the kit is directly connected to the battery.

This is the kit the car has been waiting for. Right now there are 
more details to discuss between the makers of this kit and a know 
DeLorean vendor. Please give your input on what you think of a kit 
like this, if you think the price is fair(reminder the kit uses the 
best in HID lighting), and if you would buy a kit like this when it 
came to the market. Reminder, I will send a pic to anyone who is 
interested in seeing the product just e-mail me!

Thank you 









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Message: 14
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 22:10:17 -0000
From: "dmcproto1" <DMCPROTO1_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Proto 1 Looking for flap sander



Before the restoration of Proto 1 starts I would like to find an original DMC 
dealer flap sander. I was told that it is an air tool that all the dealers had. If 
anyone knows of one I could buy it would help out a great deal.

Thanks,
Tony








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Message: 15
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 18:00:58 -0500
From: "Dave Sontos" <dsontos_at_dml_verizon.net>
Subject: RE: ERRATIC AUTO TRANS


Your rebuilt computer needs to be replaced with a new one.

Dave Sontos
Vin 02573 

-----Original Message-----
From: delor_01 [mailto:JOHN.JORDAN_at_dml_ED.GOV] 
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 2:55 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] ERRATIC AUTO TRANS

I have an auto trans that starts out in second gear--stays there for about
10 or 15 min then will shift into 3rd.  once it shifts it will work ok until
I stop for 2 or 3 hours.  Then it goes back to second gear for 10 or 15
minutes.

I have a rebuilt computer gov in the car.   any suggestions?

re:  John  






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Message: 16
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 23:17:00 -0000
From: "endotex23" <endotex23_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 3 post idle microswitch





--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "endotex23" <endotex23_at_dml_y...> wrote:

> Martin, the ECU sets the motor to a default duty value when that
input is brought low.<

Oops, that should've read when the input is brought *high*. It's
pulled up internal to the ECU when the idle switch opens. The loop is
active when the input is brought low.

Greg








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Message: 17
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 17:19:09 -0600
From: DMCVIN6683 <dmcvin6683_at_dml_wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Proto 1 Looking for flap sander


Before the restoration starts could you please post pictures of the car 
before, during and after the restoration?

I am sure most of us on the DML would like to see how you are coming 
along during the restoration of this Prototype and pictures would be 
the best way to show us all.

See you at the DMCH Open House.

Mark V




On Jan 24, 2005, at 4:10 PM, dmcproto1 wrote:

>
>
>
> Before the restoration of Proto 1 starts I would like to find an 
> original DMC
> dealer flap sander. I was told that it is an air tool that all the 
> dealers had. If
> anyone knows of one I could buy it would help out a great deal.
>
> Thanks,
> Tony
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see 
> www.dmcnews.com
>
> To search the archives or view files, log in at 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>






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Message: 18
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 23:41:27 -0000
From: "painterdave72" <painterdave72_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Proto 1 Looking for flap sander



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "dmcproto1" <DMCPROTO1_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Before the restoration of Proto 1 starts I would like to find an original DMC 
> dealer flap sander. I was told that it is an air tool that all the dealers had. If 
> anyone knows of one I could buy it would help out a great deal.
> 
> Thanks,
> Tony
Hey Tony I own one of the flap sanders.. where do u live..I live in Kansas city.. 
Dave..








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Message: 19
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 00:19:53 -0000
From: "dmcjoe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Johnny Carson



Lets not let this day go by without remembering Johnny Carson who was 
not only one of the staples in television history but also invested 
$500,000 into the development of our favorite cars. (Stainless Steel 
Illusion P-50)

DMC Joe 








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Message: 20
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 23:48:32 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: Re: Who wants "TRUE" HID headlights???



DAMN! OUCH! Sylvania/Osram only wants like $800 for their kit! And 
it's a true 4 lamp conversion. They make them for 4 bulb round, 
square combinations, as well as the larger bulbs, and Jeeps, and 
vintage Corvette too.

Also, Sylvania required proof of purchase, when you order replacement 
HID bulbs from them. Who is the supplier of this kit, and where can 
you can order replacements from?

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "turbodelorean" <dmcfan_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> 
> 
> These kits should be available in the very near future, around 
March. 
> This kit is the true way to get HID lighting. This is not like the 
> Xenarc kit or any other Xenon headlights that are available for the 
> DeLorean. This kit includeds:
> 
> 4 perfectly clear housings, the 2 low beam housings have HID 
> projectors fabricated in them. The projectors used are from the 
> European Audi A4 headlights. The projectors also have custom 
machined 
> and polished bezels around them for appearence.
> 
> 2 philips D2S HID bulbs(these are the REAL HID bulbs)
> 2 H4 high beam bulbs
> 2 HID ballasts
> All the wiring and realys needed to work this kit along with 
detailed 
> install instructions. 
> 
> I have a pic of the low beam projector housings if anyone wants to 
> see what it looks like. TRUE HID lighting uses projectors and these 
> bulbs for the most light output. None of the other kits out there 
> come close to these headlights. Feel free to check out the pricing 
> for all this hardware at any Porsche, Audi, BMW dealership. If you 
> bought everything from the dealership above it will cost you over 
> $1700 for just parts then you would have to fabricate the housings 
> yourself. This kit is well worth what the estimated asking price of 
> $1,100. The HID bulbs alone retail for $180 EACH! Look at any BMW, 
> AUDI, ETC. coming at you at night, that is the exact look these 
> headlights produce. 
> 
> Note: due to the power these headlights put out it is highly 
> recommended that the kit is directly connected to the battery.
> 
> This is the kit the car has been waiting for. Right now there are 
> more details to discuss between the makers of this kit and a know 
> DeLorean vendor. Please give your input on what you think of a kit 
> like this, if you think the price is fair(reminder the kit uses the 
> best in HID lighting), and if you would buy a kit like this when it 
> came to the market. Reminder, I will send a pic to anyone who is 
> interested in seeing the product just e-mail me!
> 
> Thank you








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Message: 21
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 00:25:56 -0000
From: "endotex23" <endotex23_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Who wants "TRUE" HID headlights???



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "turbodelorean" <dmcfan_at_dml_h...> wrote:

> These kits should be available in the very near future, around
March. This kit is the true way to get HID lighting. This is not like
the Xenarc kit or any other Xenon headlights that are available for
the DeLorean.<


Huh? "True" HID doesn't have to be projector based. I'll admit that
projection based systems give better beam quality but to say reflector
based systems are not true HID is incorrect. And no offense but your
post sounds like a marketing ploy, one that needs a little more study
(and a signature to boot).

The Xenarcs are true HID but there is no question they're junk in both
design and build quality. I feel bad for anyone who bought into their
hype without doing some basic research. As long as these projectors
are specifically match to the HID sources it'll work out. If not
they'll look good but will be near worthless as lighting. One thing
you're right about is any lighting upgrade that is done to a Delorean
requires separate wiring directly from the battery with new relays.
Use your old healight circuit to power the new relay's coils (located
behind the grill) or remove the stock relays/sockets and jumper the
wiring.

Even good HID isn't all it's cracked up to be. They have multiple
disadvantages (aside from the cost) with the worst being color
rendition. The human eye's color perception and differentiation is far
better under halogen lighting. Simply because HID's color temperature
is closer to daylight isn't meaningful because there is evidence
daylight is the wrong spectrum to use for night driving. Due to the
way the eye works HID can also provide a false sense of security, an
"illusion" of better sight.

I'm no expert on this stuff but I know someone who is. For those
interested you might want to take a look at here and poke around his
technical pages: 

http://www.danielsternlighting.com

I've known this guy for some time, he is one of the leading automotive
lighting experts in North America and knows his business. He's
testified in Congress on automotive lighting issues. If you don't want
HID you could do far worse than consult with him on halogen products.
There is a lot to know about HID and lighting in general. Installing
HID simply because it looks "brighter" and whiter doesn't mean you'll
see better. I know this from the many studies done on vision in the
aerospace industry.

I personally wouldn't pay for HID at half the price mentioned unless
the sources and projectors were designed together as a set by
experienced engineers of HID lighting. Even then they'll lack
performance over a properly designed halogen system in some aspects.
Beam quality and design is far more important than the type of light
source employed. The Xenarcs were done by supposedly knowledgable
people and they still turned out to be junk. It'd be nice to have more
details but if this is a kit being assembled by a vendor from mixed
parts I'd still run away from it at half the price. Any such system
would also be illegal for use in the US without DOT approval and it
won't be easy to obtain unless things are done right.

Greg








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