From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2446
Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 11:49 AM


There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Johnny Carson
From: "Jace & Jenn" <judtnet_at_dml_cableone.net>

2. Re: Johnny Carson
From: "p12c16" <PRC1216_at_dml_aol.com>

3. Re: Who wants "TRUE" HID headlights???
From: "turbodelorean" <dmcfan_at_dml_hotmail.com>

4. Re: Who wants "TRUE" HID headlights???
From: "p12c16" <PRC1216_at_dml_aol.com>

5. RE: Frozen speedo cable?
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

6. Openhouse when, where?
From: "Nun Yah" <joshp1986_at_dml_yahoo.com>

7. HID Lights
From: "alex morgan" <mauibarber_at_dml_hotmail.com>

8. Re: Johnny Carson
From: "R / R" <chach4_at_dml_aol.com>

9. Re: Frozen speedo cable?
From: "Lawrence J, Lormand" <lawrencesr_at_dml_netzero.net>

10. Re: 3 post idle microswitch
From: "bluemax86" <massimot_at_dml_rushmore.com>

11. RE: Frozen speedo cable?
From: kevin creason <kcreason77_at_dml_yahoo.com>

12. DMCH performane engine
From: "stainlessilusion" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>

13. RE: Frozen speedo cable?
From: Darryl Givens <mydmc5898_at_dml_yahoo.com>

14. RE: Re: Who wants "TRUE" HID headlights???
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>

15. Re: HID Lights
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

16. Re: 3 post idle microswitch
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

17. Bleeding Cooling System
From: "Steven L. Alves" <steve_at_dml_fotofx.net>

18. Re: ERRATIC AUTO TRANS
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

19. Re: Frozen speedo cable?
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

20. Re: Who wants "TRUE" HID headlights???
From: "turbodelorean" <dmcfan_at_dml_hotmail.com>

21. Re: Proto 1 Looking for flap sander
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

22. this should clear up HID things
From: "turbodelorean" <dmcfan_at_dml_hotmail.com>

23. another site that explains HID vs. halogen
From: "turbodelorean" <dmcfan_at_dml_hotmail.com>

24. Re: Proto 1 Looking for flap sander
From: "bbbigray" <bbbigray_at_dml_comcast.net>

25. Re: Proto 1 Looking for flap sander
From: darryl_at_dml_techline.com





Message: 1
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 18:53:15 -0600
From: "Jace & Jenn" <judtnet_at_dml_cableone.net>
Subject: Re: Johnny Carson


I second that.  I live in Norfolk, NE -- his hometown.  He has done so much 
for us and will be greatly missed.

Jace

VIN 3488




>
> Lets not let this day go by without remembering Johnny Carson who was
> not only one of the staples in television history but also invested
> $500,000 into the development of our favorite cars. (Stainless Steel
> Illusion P-50)
>
> DMC Joe
>
> 





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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 01:03:27 -0000
From: "p12c16" <PRC1216_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Johnny Carson



Looks like Johnny Carson is sitting inside Prototype 1 in that picture too.  That car has 
more history than I thought.  I can't wait to see it at Pheasant Run.

Patrick
1880


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "dmcjoe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Lets not let this day go by without remembering Johnny Carson who was 
> not only one of the staples in television history but also invested 
> $500,000 into the development of our favorite cars. (Stainless Steel 
> Illusion P-50)
> 
> DMC Joe








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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 00:57:01 -0000
From: "turbodelorean" <dmcfan_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Who wants "TRUE" HID headlights???



Yes I realize that the Sylvania kit is an HID kit. The reason why I 
called it a true HID kit is because of the projectors. The older 
forms of HID did not use projectors and the lighting was improved 
but with the use of projectors brings out the best performance in an 
HID set up. Sylvania's kit also does not use the greatest parts 
available for the money. The kit's are made through HID Performance 
in CA and will be sold through a DeLorean vendor. They make all 
custom made HID lighting systems for every car. Also one guy said 
these have to be DOT approved. The kit is made with all parts that 
are here in the US and on multiple cars. Any high end car you see 
with HID headlights use the Philips D2S or D2R bulbs. I also realize 
that for some people the price would seem out there but like I said 
call any parts dept at Audi, BMW, etc and see how much it will cost 
for the components that our kit has, it is over $1,700.

Peter Kuchan
 
--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_c...> 
wrote:
> 
> 
> DAMN! OUCH! Sylvania/Osram only wants like $800 for their kit! And 
> it's a true 4 lamp conversion. They make them for 4 bulb round, 
> square combinations, as well as the larger bulbs, and Jeeps, and 
> vintage Corvette too.
> 
> Also, Sylvania required proof of purchase, when you order 
replacement 
> HID bulbs from them. Who is the supplier of this kit, and where 
can 
> you can order replacements from?
> 
> -Robert
> vin 6585 "X"
> 
> 
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "turbodelorean" <dmcfan_at_dml_h...> 
wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > These kits should be available in the very near future, around 
> March. 
> > This kit is the true way to get HID lighting. This is not like 
the 
> > Xenarc kit or any other Xenon headlights that are available for 
the 
> > DeLorean. This kit includeds:
> > 
> > 4 perfectly clear housings, the 2 low beam housings have HID 
> > projectors fabricated in them. The projectors used are from the 
> > European Audi A4 headlights. The projectors also have custom 
> machined 
> > and polished bezels around them for appearence.
> > 
> > 2 philips D2S HID bulbs(these are the REAL HID bulbs)
> > 2 H4 high beam bulbs
> > 2 HID ballasts
> > All the wiring and realys needed to work this kit along with 
> detailed 
> > install instructions. 
> > 
> > I have a pic of the low beam projector housings if anyone wants 
to 
> > see what it looks like. TRUE HID lighting uses projectors and 
these 
> > bulbs for the most light output. None of the other kits out 
there 
> > come close to these headlights. Feel free to check out the 
pricing 
> > for all this hardware at any Porsche, Audi, BMW dealership. If 
you 
> > bought everything from the dealership above it will cost you 
over 
> > $1700 for just parts then you would have to fabricate the 
housings 
> > yourself. This kit is well worth what the estimated asking price 
of 
> > $1,100. The HID bulbs alone retail for $180 EACH! Look at any 
BMW, 
> > AUDI, ETC. coming at you at night, that is the exact look these 
> > headlights produce. 
> > 
> > Note: due to the power these headlights put out it is highly 
> > recommended that the kit is directly connected to the battery.
> > 
> > This is the kit the car has been waiting for. Right now there 
are 
> > more details to discuss between the makers of this kit and a 
know 
> > DeLorean vendor. Please give your input on what you think of a 
kit 
> > like this, if you think the price is fair(reminder the kit uses 
the 
> > best in HID lighting), and if you would buy a kit like this when 
it 
> > came to the market. Reminder, I will send a pic to anyone who is 
> > interested in seeing the product just e-mail me!
> > 
> > Thank you








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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 01:01:25 -0000
From: "p12c16" <PRC1216_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Who wants "TRUE" HID headlights???



Just what I want!  Bulbs hot enough to turn my fascia into liquid goo.  From what I 
understand these HID bulbs get hot as absolute hell, and I can see the damage that normal 
headlights have done to the fascia warping.  Personally I use Sylvania Cool Blue headlights 
available at Autozone.  They are much brighter than the stock headlights, and cost about 
$8 apiece.  

Patrick 
1880



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "endotex23" <endotex23_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "turbodelorean" <dmcfan_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> 
> > These kits should be available in the very near future, around
> March. This kit is the true way to get HID lighting. This is not like
> the Xenarc kit or any other Xenon headlights that are available for
> the DeLorean.<
> 
> 
> Huh? "True" HID doesn't have to be projector based. I'll admit that
> projection based systems give better beam quality but to say reflector
> based systems are not true HID is incorrect. And no offense but your
> post sounds like a marketing ploy, one that needs a little more study
> (and a signature to boot).
> 
> The Xenarcs are true HID but there is no question they're junk in both
> design and build quality. I feel bad for anyone who bought into their
> hype without doing some basic research. As long as these projectors
> are specifically match to the HID sources it'll work out. If not
> they'll look good but will be near worthless as lighting. One thing
> you're right about is any lighting upgrade that is done to a Delorean
> requires separate wiring directly from the battery with new relays.
> Use your old healight circuit to power the new relay's coils (located
> behind the grill) or remove the stock relays/sockets and jumper the
> wiring.
> 
> Even good HID isn't all it's cracked up to be. They have multiple
> disadvantages (aside from the cost) with the worst being color
> rendition. The human eye's color perception and differentiation is far
> better under halogen lighting. Simply because HID's color temperature
> is closer to daylight isn't meaningful because there is evidence
> daylight is the wrong spectrum to use for night driving. Due to the
> way the eye works HID can also provide a false sense of security, an
> "illusion" of better sight.
> 
> I'm no expert on this stuff but I know someone who is. For those
> interested you might want to take a look at here and poke around his
> technical pages: 
> 
> http://www.danielsternlighting.com
> 
> I've known this guy for some time, he is one of the leading automotive
> lighting experts in North America and knows his business. He's
> testified in Congress on automotive lighting issues. If you don't want
> HID you could do far worse than consult with him on halogen products.
> There is a lot to know about HID and lighting in general. Installing
> HID simply because it looks "brighter" and whiter doesn't mean you'll
> see better. I know this from the many studies done on vision in the
> aerospace industry.
> 
> I personally wouldn't pay for HID at half the price mentioned unless
> the sources and projectors were designed together as a set by
> experienced engineers of HID lighting. Even then they'll lack
> performance over a properly designed halogen system in some aspects.
> Beam quality and design is far more important than the type of light
> source employed. The Xenarcs were done by supposedly knowledgable
> people and they still turned out to be junk. It'd be nice to have more
> details but if this is a kit being assembled by a vendor from mixed
> parts I'd still run away from it at half the price. Any such system
> would also be illegal for use in the US without DOT approval and it
> won't be easy to obtain unless things are done right.
> 
> Greg








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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 20:27:57 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: RE: Frozen speedo cable?


Darryl,

Unfortunately a non-working speedo in a DeLorean is almost always the result
of a defective right angle drive or dust shield (cap) 5/1/0 #9. Locating the
source of your problem is relatively easy.

DMC Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: mydmc5898 [mailto:mydmc5898_at_dml_yahoo.com] 
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 4:25 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Frozen speedo cable?

Hi everyone, got another little pest here. I've had my car now on the road
since early Jan, and put maybe 300 miles on it. However the other day going
to school my speedomoter stoped working, its the new one from PJ Gardys so I
don't think it would have failed so soon it only has around 1,000 miles on
before and after the conversion to a 5-speed. But can it be the cold weather
causeing this? I had it out a total of of 1hr and even after the car heated
it up it still didn't work. I don't have a way to test it right now with the
snow, but can it possibly just freez?
Thanks Darryl
VIN 5898







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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 01:28:52 -0000
From: "Nun Yah" <joshp1986_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Openhouse when, where?



When is the open house that Tony was speaking of when he let everyone 
know that he bought the prototype? Where is it?  When is it?

-Josh








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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 02:42:34 +0000
From: "alex morgan" <mauibarber_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: HID Lights


Pardon my ignorance but what is wrong with the stock Delorean headlights?  
It seems like an awful lot of money for brand new headlights.  How much 
night and/or high speed night  driving does the average Delorean driver do?
Alex







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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 20:39:27 -0600
From: "R / R" <chach4_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Johnny Carson


Tonight's episode of Extra (NBC) had listed on the screen the  Delorean 
as one of his bad investment deals that took away money from his 
300+Million Estate.

rick

dmcjoe wrote on 1/24/2005, 6:19 PM:

 >
 >
 >
 > Lets not let this day go by without remembering Johnny Carson who was
 > not only one of the staples in television history but also invested
 > $500,000 into the development of our favorite cars. (Stainless Steel
 > Illusion P-50)
 >
 > DMC Joe
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
 > moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
 >
 > For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see
 > www.dmcnews.com
 >
 > To search the archives or view files, log in at
 > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
 > Yahoo! Groups Links
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >







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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 22:12:31 -0500
From: "Lawrence J, Lormand" <lawrencesr_at_dml_netzero.net>
Subject: Re: Frozen speedo cable?


Hey Darryl,
A couple of things might have happened, 1- the Plastic speedo cap 
covering the hub might not be on all the way, 2-the plastic cap could 
be stripped, 3- upper speedo cable broke, or Most common Lower speedo 
cable broke, 1st check to make sure the speedo cables are screwed on 
all the way before checking the Above.
Lawrence
Vin#'s 00538m, 00915a, 04873a, Michigan

On Monday, January 24, 2005, at 04:24  PM, mydmc5898 wrote:

>
>
>
> Hi everyone, got another little pest here. I've had my car now on
> the road since early Jan, and put maybe 300 miles on it. However the
> other day going to school my speedomoter stoped working, its the new
> one from PJ Gardys so I don't think it would have failed so soon it
> only has around 1,000 miles on before and after the conversion to a
> 5-speed. But can it be the cold weather causeing this? I had it out
> a total of of 1hr and even after the car heated it up it still
> didn't work. I don't have a way to test it right now with the snow,
> but can it possibly just freez?
> Thanks Darryl
> VIN 5898





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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 03:14:29 -0000
From: "bluemax86" <massimot_at_dml_rushmore.com>
Subject: Re: 3 post idle microswitch



After reading all the posts on this subject I would have to agree with
Cain. If the experts on the list find a question too basic to answer
then DON'T. All that was needed was a quick reply and if desired an
explanation so the rest of us could learn too. I wonder now many of
you out there have picked up the phone and called a buddy to get a
quick answer instead of spending a lot of time trying to figure it out.

I was going to post a question about an issue I have with my D, but I
have thought twice about it. I think I will remain a lurker.

Max
VIN 4819.








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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 19:15:45 -0800 (PST)
From: kevin creason <kcreason77_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Frozen speedo cable?


Or lower cable. I've had three break and only one each
of the dust cap and angle drive in four + years.

--- DMC Joe <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net> wrote:

> 
> 
> Darryl,
> 
> Unfortunately a non-working speedo in a DeLorean is
> almost always the result
> of a defective right angle drive or dust shield
> (cap) 5/1/0 #9. Locating the
> source of your problem is relatively easy.
> 
> DMC Joe
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mydmc5898 [mailto:mydmc5898_at_dml_yahoo.com] 
> Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 4:25 PM
> To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [DML] Frozen speedo cable?
> 
> Hi everyone, got another little pest here. I've had
> my car now on the road
> since early Jan, and put maybe 300 miles on it.
> However the other day going
> to school my speedomoter stoped working, its the new
> one from PJ Gardys so I
> don't think it would have failed so soon it only has
> around 1,000 miles on





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Message: 12
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 03:28:58 -0000
From: "stainlessilusion" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>
Subject: DMCH performane engine



Guys..I'm debating...I'm going to either buy a Lamborghini, or instead
buy a stainless frame and performance engine. I'm wondering if anyone
on the
list here has gotten the performance engine. Is it worth it? Are you
happy with the performance etc.?? Any suggestions?? -----Dani B. #5003








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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 19:45:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Darryl Givens <mydmc5898_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Frozen speedo cable?


Yeah I checked to see if all is connected and everything looked fine, given that I never ad this problem before... well exceot when the first angledrive went. I was hoping that weather was a factor,

Thanks

Darryl

VIN5898





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Message: 14
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 23:20:17 -0500
From: "DMC Joe" <dmcjoe_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: RE: Re: Who wants "TRUE" HID headlights???


Patrick,

I am not defending the subject of HID headlamps but I would like to correct
you concerning fascia damage. Oddly enough the warping (eye brow) of the
front fascia is not caused by the headlights. It is strictly a result of sun
exposure. Many cars received this damage before they even got to the
dealerships after receiving month's of sun exposure during storage at the
QAC's.  

DMC Joe

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/WNJUTV47/

-----Original Message-----
From: p12c16 [mailto:PRC1216_at_dml_aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 8:01 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: Who wants "TRUE" HID headlights???




Just what I want!  Bulbs hot enough to turn my fascia into liquid goo.  From
what I understand these HID bulbs get hot as absolute hell, and I can see
the damage that normal headlights have done to the fascia warping.
Personally I use Sylvania Cool Blue headlights available at Autozone.  They
are much brighter than the stock headlights, and cost about
$8 apiece.  

Patrick
1880








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Message: 15
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 05:11:24 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: HID Lights



Actually most of my driving is done at night (often well past
midnight). I trust my little silver car implicitly, and have no
concern driving after the tow trucks have gone to bed.

Stock halogens were a big improvement over incadescents of the day.
Current sealed beam halogens are a big improvement over the stock
units. Meet my needs without any complaints (indeed $8-$10 apiece,
unless you catch them BOGO 50%).

I have encountered DeLoreans with horrifically misaimed headlights.
That may be the real source of some sealed beam unhappiness.

And as Gary/Greg/Donny(?) pointed out, just because a bulb looks
brighter doesn't mean it is going to put out any more usable (by human
eyes) light. Just ask anyone who's tried replacing lever light bulbs
with LED's. 

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "alex morgan" <mauibarber_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> 
> Pardon my ignorance but what is wrong with the stock Delorean
headlights?  
> It seems like an awful lot of money for brand new headlights.  How much 
> night and/or high speed night  driving does the average Delorean
driver do?
> Alex








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Message: 16
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 05:14:31 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: 3 post idle microswitch


I did not mean to single you out in any way. I was only answering your
post generally for the benefit of the List. There is nothing wrong
with asking questions. That is how I learned. I also got myself into
trouble and learned a lot by getting myself out. Knowledge learned
"the hard way" stays with you a lot longer than a quick question and
answer. Anyway it can't hurt to go to Radio Shack and buy a cheap
meter and spend a evening playing with it. I hope this does not
discourage you or anyone else from asking questions. One of the main
purposes of this List is to raise the general knowledge of it's
members and to take the best care we can of our little silver cars and
have fun doing it!
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


-- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "wayofcain" <wayofcain_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Before this goes any further I would like to clarify something.
> 
> I posted my question before going outside into the cold temperatures 
> to attach the switch in hopes of receiving a two line answer. Not to 
> be berated and have asumptions made toward my intelligence and common 
> sense.
> 
> I DID call John Hervey and DID leave him a message. I also called 2 
> other times that day and did not leave a message, so as to not fill 
> his answering machine with garbage. I know he is there 7 days a week, 
> so on and so forth. I knew he WOULD get back to me in good time but I 
> had limited time and needed to get the job finished. 
> 
> I decided the man might be busy elsewhere so I posted here. Life 
> happens.
> 





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Message: 17
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 00:04:55 -0500
From: "Steven L. Alves" <steve_at_dml_fotofx.net>
Subject: Bleeding Cooling System


And so it begins............


Ok, Having my first real Delorean problem. Noticed this evening coolant dripping from the pan that covers the underside just behind the right rear wheel. I know the cover comes off with three nuts and a few clips and plan on finding the leak first thing in the morning. I am guessing that it must be a clamp because all the lines and hoses are new. If I have to open the system to replace a clamp or hose, What is the proper procedure for bleeding the air back out? The shop manual shows a bleeder on the thermostat housing but doesn't go into any detail as to the proper procedure for using it.


Thanks
Steve
#2700 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 18
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 05:06:18 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: ERRATIC AUTO TRANS



Build a light box so you can see what the computer is actually doing.
Once you can verify the problem is the computer you can fix or replace
it. If it is NOT the computer then it is either the wiring, a
connector, or a solenoid. You can contact me off-list if you want info
on building the light box. In the meantime go over ALL of the external
on-car adjustments as per the Workshop Manual including fluid level
checks of BOTH the trans AND final drive.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "delor_01" <JOHN.JORDAN_at_dml_E...> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have an auto trans that starts out in second gear--stays there for 
> about 10 or 15 min then will shift into 3rd.  once it shifts it will 
> work ok until I stop for 2 or 3 hours.  Then it goes back to second 
> gear for 10 or 15 minutes.
> 
> I have a rebuilt computer gov in the car.   any suggestions?
> 
> re:  John








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Message: 19
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 05:19:53 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Frozen speedo cable?



Check the plastic drive cap that fits bewtwen the left front wheel and
the rotor. The hole in the center is supposed to be square so the
square cable fitting inside will be turned by the cap. Sometimes that
hole gets round and will not turn the cable. Sometimes the cap is not
held securely between the rim and the rotor. Some electrical tape
around the edge will get it going. Check the angle drive again. If it
went bad you may have a problem inside the speedometer. Parts break
loose inside and jam it up which will cause repeated failures of the
drive cap and angle drive.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "mydmc5898" <mydmc5898_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi everyone, got another little pest here. I've had my car now on 
> the road since early Jan, and put maybe 300 miles on it. However the 
> other day going to school my speedomoter stoped working, its the new 
> one from PJ Gardys so I don't think it would have failed so soon it 
> only has around 1,000 miles on before and after the conversion to a 
> 5-speed. But can it be the cold weather causeing this? I had it out 
> a total of of 1hr and even after the car heated it up it still 
> didn't work. I don't have a way to test it right now with the snow, 
> but can it possibly just freez?
> Thanks Darryl
> VIN 5898








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Message: 20
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 05:17:08 -0000
From: "turbodelorean" <dmcfan_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Who wants "TRUE" HID headlights???


HID bulbs are rated at 35W. This is not that much different from a 
stock halogen bulb. Most of the fascia warping in my opinion happens 
due to exposure in the sunlight. You can check the temps with a 
laser temp checker. We did this once to the dashboard after being in 
the sun for an hour and it got over 300 degrees, hence why 
dashboards start to warp over time to too much sunlight exposure. My 
other car besides my DeLorean is an S2000 which has HID lighting 
from the factory. At no time does the headlight housing become hot 
to the touch. There are always a lot of misconceptions on a lot of 
topics. The fact is if you do your research on how HID lighting 
really works you will see that the fascia will not be effected by 
HID headlights. 

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "p12c16" <PRC1216_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Just what I want!  Bulbs hot enough to turn my fascia into liquid 
goo.  From what I 
> understand these HID bulbs get hot as absolute hell, and I can see 
the damage that normal 





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Message: 21
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 05:41:40 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Proto 1 Looking for flap sander



You can do the job by hand, the power tool just makes it go faster. If
you don't have any experience with it it can do a lot of damage faster
too. My advice would be to just do the job slowly, one panel at a time
by hand. You only really need a tool like that if you are going to
regrain the car. To take out some scratches and "blend" the finish
with a blending pad you don't need it. Professional shops use such
tools because time is money so they won't spend the time an owner
would doing a job like this by hand. All you need is some sandpaper,
some blending pads, some Windex, a lot of paper towels AND TIME! If
you prefer to do it with a flapwheel it can be air driven or
electrical. You can use a flexible shaft driven by a motor with a
flapwheel on the end or you can use an air tool. If you try to use the
origional one that the Delorean dealers had be aware that the
snadpaper is old and the grit will just fly off. You must find a
source for new sandpaper to replace the strips on the flapwheel, they
are replaceable (if you can find them). There is nothing magical about
that flapwheel. You can by one (the flaps are not replaceable you have
to just replace the whole wheel) in any large industrial supply. YOu
can even use an electric drill. It takes practice to be good though.
Even though doing it by hand is slower if you are making a mistake you
can correct it before it is a big mess. Use masking tape on the door
seals and the rub strip so you don't hurt it. Use making tape on the
facias too. Stay far away from the glass, the grit from the flapwheel
can pit it. Place blankets over the glass jsut in case. Eastwood also
sells a flexible shaft you can hook a motor up to and a flapwheel.
Even if you are sure you want to go with a power tool you should at
least start the job by hand so you have a feel for what you are doing.
You don't have as much feel when using a power tool. When I learned
carpentry you had to use hand tools to learn. The theory is you must
learn the process, the power tool makes it harder to get the feel for
what needs to be done and when used by a novice it generally gets
overdone. Anyway you can't always use a power tool. Sometimes there
are places it can't get into so you HAVE to do it by hand. Like around
the rear view mirrors and the door locks. Do the Stainless Steel last.
You may scratch it during your restoration. Take it slowly and have fun!
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "dmcproto1" <DMCPROTO1_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Before the restoration of Proto 1 starts I would like to find an
original DMC 
> dealer flap sander. I was told that it is an air tool that all the
dealers had. If 
> anyone knows of one I could buy it would help out a great deal.
> 
> Thanks,
> Tony








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Message: 22
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 05:41:25 -0000
From: "turbodelorean" <dmcfan_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: this should clear up HID things



Since it seems like people do not see the difference from HID and 
Xenon lighting, here is a great article on how HID lighting is 
different from Xenon. Yes they are different. HID is actually the 
coolest bulb out there at 35W. Xenon bulbs go past 50W and stock 
halogens are usually around 50W. This article should hopefully 
clarify what HID lighting really is and will justify the price that 
we were thinking of marketing it for. Please before you post look 
into what HID lighting really is and you will see that it is the 
best lighting system out there today. 

http://deevr.tripod.com/id47.htm

Peter Kuchan










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Message: 23
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 05:43:47 -0000
From: "turbodelorean" <dmcfan_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: another site that explains HID vs. halogen



http://www.brightheadlights-hid.com/xenon_bulbs.htm

Peter Kuchan








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Message: 24
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 06:16:31 -0000
From: "bbbigray" <bbbigray_at_dml_comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Proto 1 Looking for flap sander



Hi Tony!

Nice to hear from you.

Before you sand:  Thinking back to my days at DMC when our transport 
guys were schlepping your Proto all over the country, three things 
come to mind.  

First of all, the wheel and grit used in production and in the 
dealerships was not finalized until just before production, and long 
after Proto 1 got the treatment.  I just remember we kept seeing 
paperwork related to all these exotic grinding gizmos.  It became 
quite the issue. (Hey, list, jump in on this one if you have some 
history here.  Never thought to write all this down...)  

Second, regraining the car actually produces a slightly different 
grain than factory, and you can easily see it in an A/B comparison 
with a pristine vehicle if you know what it looks like.  A side-by-
side comparison may give you some clues as to how the Proto was 
done.  

Third, and I may be preaching to the choir, but regraining has a few 
less-than-obvious caveats.  

So, what do we do?  Call the DMC road show guys, if anybody knows 
them.

Failing that, I would suggest a few things:

Research: start with an A/B/C comparison.  Look at the skin as you 
would a choice piece of mahogony. If you have access to an untouched 
original (Don Steger has a pretty good one for this.) and one that 
has been done by hand with a pad, and the Proto of course, look 
closely at their finishes.  On the factory original, there is 
actually quite a bit of smooth SS between the individual channels 
where the grit on the original wheel cut, and the overall 
brightness/reflectivity has a very distinctive character to it.  

Also, you can clearly see the entry and exit points of each grain of 
grit, and in fact they make an attractive pattern, like layered 
blonde hair, that quickly identifies an original finish.  Dense 
graining and an overrun set of entry patterns is a sign of 
refinishing with a wheel.  Sometimes this was done at QAC.  (Do we 
have any QAC alums on this list?)  The luminosity is noticeably 
different at a distance.

Now look at the hand-rubbed car.  Very dense grain, and no entry 
points.  Depending on the grit of the blending pad (I use 3M wood 
finishing pads with fairly agressive grit for extra shine.) the 
abrasion begins to create grain in the original clear areas between 
the factory channels; it's much more dense.  Compared to a factory 
car, the rubbed car is brighter and looks "sunnier" in subdued 
light.  The factory finish, on the other hand, has a much softer, 
delicate sheen, an almost satin quality IMO.  (I bought my car with 
roof scratches, and had no choice but to refinish. I miss my original 
finish to say the least.)

Why all this looking?  You may be able to gain clues as to how the 
Proto was grained, and how the road crew maintained the finish.  It 
wasn't a secret, but they were so steeped in incredible detail when 
they dressed this thing up, nobody really knew how they did it.  
Besides, you couldn't really ask them because they were always on the 
road!

Okay, so now you've determined how the finish came to be on your 
Proto as it sits in your garage.  Now for the part where I may be 
preaching to the choir.  (Press Fast Forward at your convenience.)  

Please don't rub the car down in little sections.  In broad daylight, 
you won't notice the difference.  But at twilight, in fog, in a 
partially lit garage, those patches will show up like darned socks.  
(How many know what "darn" means here?  Am I that stinkin' old?) I 
have spent hours on mine and several other peoples cars getting rid 
of those nasty square patches.  It takes forever.  (Okay, you can 
hit "Play" again.)

I can tell you this much--that finish was flawless like jewelry when 
you saw it.  Stop you dead in your tracks.  

It's good to know someone is taking so much time with this wonderful 
piece of history.  Imagine, being twenty-something, seeing that thing 
in the flesh when all the world knew was vinyl hardtops and spoke 
wheelcovers...

Cya, list!

--Ray
10693 and Remembering

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "dmcproto1" <DMCPROTO1_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Before the restoration of Proto 1 starts I would like to find an 
original DMC 
> dealer flap sander. I was told that it is an air tool that all the 
dealers had. If 
> anyone knows of one I could buy it would help out a great deal.
> 
> Thanks,
> Tony








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Message: 25
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 08:28:36 -0800
From: darryl_at_dml_techline.com
Subject: Re: Proto 1 Looking for flap sander




I have an original "low mileage" one for sale.  I recently saw one go on ebay 
for $600+; I would take $600 plus shipping if you are interested.

Please note I am right in the middle of changing internet providers, so please 
send any responses to both addresses for now.

Darryl Tinnerstet
darryl(at)techline.com (old)
dtinnerstet(at)centurytel.net (new)

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