From: <>
To: <>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2452
Date: Friday, January 28, 2005 8:08 PM

There are 19 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: SonnyV? There's a bigger issue here!--Yes there is
From: "p12c16" <>

2. Re: Speedometer Woes
From: "David Teitelbaum" <>

3. Re: DMC (Texas) Addresses SonnyV
From: "maleman302" <>

4. Re: Need help
From: "David Teitelbaum" <>

5. Re: Barret Jackson car auction this weekend on the Speed Channel
From: "Lauren" <>

6. Re: Speedometer Woes
From: "John Chapelhow" <>

7. Re: Need help (Crashworthiness)
From: "content22207" <>

8. Re: Need help

9. RE:DMC (Texas) Addresses SonnyV

10. Re: Bill need a new automatic
From: Bob Brandys <>

11. Re: DMCH's shifter boot early wear/tear ?
From: "Joe OBrien" <>

12. DeLorean Windscreens
From: "uroglas2005" <>

13. Re: Re:Another D owner in LV?
From: Bob Brandys <>

14. Re: Need help
From: "Charlie" <>

15. Re: hazard/headlight switch bulbs
From: "gzapf" <>

16. Re: Need help
From: "Dave" <>

17. silly oil change question
From: Owen Emry <>

18. DMC Desktop Images
From: Shannon Yocom <>

19. Re: silly oil change question
From: "Dave Swingle" <>

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 01:50:11 -0000
From: "p12c16" <>
Subject: Re: SonnyV? There's a bigger issue here!--Yes there is

I think this list is overlooking a huge issue as well.  All I ask is
that you step back and look 
at the situation for a few moments.  I may be going out on a limb
here, but I feel that 
many others agree with me,
but they choose not to 
speak up and voice their opinions on all of this.  I'm not trying to
make enemies either.  
Try go go back in
time 7 or 8
years.  Where would we 
be today without DMCH?  Who would have bought the Kapac inventory? 
Where would the 
parts be located?  Would they be organized in the fashion that they
are today?  Would they 
be as affordable and easy to order?  Would DeLorean1 have bought them
all?  Personally I 
have never dealt with D1, so I can't criticize them, but I know most
of you prefer not to 
purchase parts there for some reason or another.  How would you like
having to go to D1 
for every part that you need?  Or would it still be like Kapac even
today, with
parts being sold merely 
by weight?   I talked to some people who bought Catalytic Converters
for $35 apiece when 
Kapac was closing out.  How long would the most needed parts be
around if that
were still the case?  
Everyone seems to overlook the positive things that DMCH has done for
our community---how 
many of you have bought something from DMCH?  I am guessing most, if
not all of you 
have at some time or another.  They are the ones that have the money
to remanufacture
crucial parts that 
our cars will someday need.  Sure we can
go around and buy 
parts, those should 
last for a while as long ast there are enough cores, but how can you
rant and rave about a 
company who
is investing in all of 
our cars and in a way keeping them alive and on the road?  New clutch
cylinders, shocks, 
springs, angle drives, seat covers, trip reset shafts, headlight
switches, Stainless Steel 
Illusion reprints, the list could go on for pages and pages and
pages.  Sure I know there 
are other vendors, and I have supported Grady and Hervey in the past,
and I am sure I will 
again before the summer is here.  But do you really think that they
be financially able to 
take the initiative to invest in having torsion bars remade?  How
about offering an 
upgraded interior?  Maybe remaking right front fenders someday? 
Would they have the 
capital to research and
design a Stage 1, 2, or 3 
PRV?  I doubt it, but thats not meant to make you look down upon
them, or not to buy 
from them.  They just aren't as big as DMCH and don't have the kind
of resources to do so.  As a matter of fact, some of their parts that
they sell are obtained 
from DMCH as I understand (correct me if I am misled in that
assumption).  Items such as 
window switches, angle drives, defrost switches, etc.  
So for all of you urging PJ Grady and John Hervey to sue DMCH, just
think about where you 
would be without each one of them today.  Now, I am well aware that
no one is perfect, but perhaps its not Stephen who placed these "meta
tags" on the website.  
Does he even do web design?  I can't answer these questions.  But
before this "witch hunt" 
continues, lets
give those who are being accused an opportunity to speak out.  If
they choose not to, then 
you may come to your own conclusions.  Now,
when typing in "P.J. 
Grady" in Yahoo, I
see no link to 
DMCH's site.  I see links to Grady's website, the DML, Tamir's site,
deloreanmidatlantic, the 
DeLorean Owners Association,,, and many 
other sites.  But NO links to DMCH that I can see.  Maybe I am doing
incorrectly, I don't know a whole lot about these "meta tags".  Are
these other sites using 
them as well?  I also agree with someone else's comment that it would
be nice to see more 
from all of the
vendors on this site, 
because many of them have more experience than a lot of us put
together.  I appreciate 
Hervey's knowledgable comments, which have helped me out many a time,
and I have the 
numbers he posted speed-dialed on my cell should I need to contact
him if stranded and 
in need of a cross-ref #.  We are all one big community, a family if
you will, lets try to
get along.  And lets hope this feud is over before Pheasant Run, I
don't want to be walking 
around with a black eye from a fight at the show.  :)  And if so, let
it be a fight with the 
Corvette people, not fellow DeLorean owners.

As usual, direct all hate mail about me or my post to me directly.
That's my opinion, I'm entitled to it, and I'm stickin' to it.
Patrick C.


Message: 2
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 04:23:41 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <>
Subject: Re: Speedometer Woes

If it was working before you took out the dash then it is very likely
that you have not properly and fully inserted the upper speedo cable
into the speedometer. It must go all the way on until the clip snaps
and locks the cable into place.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757

--- In, "Lawrence J, Lormand"
<lawrencesr_at_dml_n...> wrote:
> mike
> Make sure your pressing the cable into the speedometer so that clip on 
> the back Holds it in place. then if thats fine take your rim off the 
> car & turn the studs by hand while checking the speedo to make sure 
> >
> >
> > Hi gang,
> > Whenever I have trouble I turn to the experts for help so here I am 
> > again!  I had removed my dash binnacle to replace some burnt out
> > and put everything back together with no problem except now the 
> > speedometer will not work.


Message: 3
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 04:25:59 -0000
From: "maleman302" <>
Subject: Re: DMC (Texas) Addresses SonnyV

--- In, Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_y...> wrote:
 I have never heard of a
> documented vendor vendetta against any of the list
> members and I have been on the list since the very
> early months.  BUT, just for the sake of argument,
> lets assume that such could happen.  With EXTREMELY
> few exceptions, any part you can get from one vendor
> you can get from another.  AND, the prices are almost
> idenetical.  
> While I'd hate to see a flood of vitriolic diatribes
> posted here, I just don't buy this "I'm fraid of
> retribution" argument.  If you've got something
> worthwhile to say - - SAY IT!
> Dick Ryan
> VIN 16867

See posting 40013,a pure case of vender vendetta.
and unprofessional conduct,at least DMCH doesn't stoop that low.

> --- David Teitelbaum <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> wrote:
>  BTW I got a LOT of private e-mail about this, all of
> it positive except for 1. I guess most on the List are
> afraid to comment publicly about this topic. In th


Message: 4
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 04:39:51 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <>
Subject: Re: Need help

I think you covered the high points well but it should also be
mentioned that it is incredably dangerous to drive on the origional
NCT tires. You are also talking about a 20 year old car so the brake
lines may be rotten, the rubber parts in the fuel system may be
deteriorated and leaking, there could be all kinds of "jury rigged"
wiring including a jumped out inertia switch, wrong size fuses in the
wrong places, and other things. Part of how safe a particular car may
be has a lot to do with how it was taken care of. Although the front
crumple zone may be "flimsy" (and that may be by design) imagine how
much more flimsy it can get when it rusts out. All in all a Delorean
is inherently no more dangerous than most other cars of it's vintage.
Now if you want to talk about driving in today's envireonment with
SUV's and Hummers, that is a whole different question. In that respect
you are flirting with disaster. In any serious crash with such larger
vehicles and you are at an enormous disadvantage and would sustain
serious if not fatal injuries when it goes over you. Judged by modern
standards of safety the Delorean is lacking. No ABS, no air bags, a
very short and stiff steering column, no way to get out a window. No
integral passenger compartment to prevent intrusion and severe leg
injuries. Just for these reasons it is not prudent to use it as a
daily driver. Of course this is just My Humble Opinion.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757 

--- In, "endotex23" <endotex23_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> --- In, "Jennifer Moe" <jennymoe4_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> >  I am a very new owner and one of the people I work with is
> slamming 
> > my D.  
> Uh, the bias here is a bit tough to swallow. I work in an industry
> that defines safety and the comments here reflect both ignorance and a
> clear lack of objectivity. "Safe" needs to be defined. Are you
> refering to crashworthiness or something else?
> Just so you're aware:
> 1) Portions of the electrcial system are a fire waiting to happen.
> 2) Same with the fuel system.


Message: 5
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 21:09:42 -0700
From: "Lauren" <>
Subject: Re: Barret Jackson car auction this weekend on the Speed Channel

sweitzel_2000 wrote:
> I noticed that they have one Delorean for sale VIN 2647.
> st.asp?id=180164
> Anyone want to wager a guess as to what it will sell for?

If I guess $0 do I win?    I just came back from a day at B-J and the 
D isn't there.  It took miles of tramping through the mud looking for 
it and lots of dead end questions to find out that the car was 
scratched from the auction because it wouldn't start.  The only 
person who seemed to know about it described it as "dull finish with 
a broken driver's side window."    The D, from what I was told at 
"key control" was rolled into the impound lot.  That was the story as 
of 5 pm MST today altho I see it's still listed as lot #1207..



Message: 6
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 09:02:13 -0000
From: "John Chapelhow" <>
Subject: Re: Speedometer Woes


Try the easy things first. Don't attach the upper speedo cable to the 
instruments, leave the end loose (but connected to the lambda counter 

The cables themselves have square shaped inner bits which should 
stick out 1-2 inches. 

Now with the left wheel jacked up slowly rotate it by hand. If the 
lower cable, angle drive etc are doing their job you will be able to 
see the end of the speedo cable revolving.

If this does appear to rotate it will probably just be an alignment 
error at the binacle end. I have found that it much easier when 
replacing the binacle to connect the speedo cable first.

Disconnect the upper speedo cable at both ends (ie from the lambda 
box as well). With the cable in front of you it is easy to see the 
inner moving bit (watch for small amounts of oil which may drip). 
GENTLY tap the lower end of the cable, this will force the inner 
piece to extend fully at the top. Now with the binacle removed you 
can fully seat the cable at the top, ensuring the securing clip is in 
place. This will automatically extend the inner section of the cable 
to the correct position at the bottom.

Replace the binacle into position with the electrical cables 

Now you can attach the cable to the lambda box again, note that the 
square inner piece will slot like a key into the lambda box. Do not 
try using the screwed collar to force it into position. You may have 
to gently rotate the cable, in the correct alignment the cable end 
will seat fully.

At this stage rotating the wheel by hand should see the speedo give a 

John Chapelhow
MMG 287W : 'Boeing' #0737 


Message: 7
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 04:03:37 -0000
From: "content22207" <>
Subject: Re: Need help (Crashworthiness)

Guess I should have pointed out that the Fleetwood suffered sheet
metal damage only. Louie's entire pontoon cracked (grass was visible
through the passenger side, opposite the impact). Car was a total
loss. But at least he survived to walk away.

A one time use application...

Bill Robertson

>--- In, "endotex23" <endotex23_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> Uh, the bias here is a bit tough to swallow. I work in an industry
> that defines safety and the comments here reflect both ignorance and a
> clear lack of objectivity. "Safe" needs to be defined. Are you
> refering to crashworthiness or something else?
> Just so you're aware:
> 1) Portions of the electrcial system are a fire waiting to happen.


Message: 8
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 04:48:38 EST
Subject: Re: Need help

Haha.  I'm almost convinced that, from a structural standpoint, "boat  cars" 
from the 60s were safer than what we have today.  Simple law of  physics: When 
two things collide, the heaviest wins.
As for the DeLorean being safe / unsafe, there is sound proof on both sides  
of the argument.  Go look at the crash test videos on Tamir's site 
(_www.entermyworld.com_ ( ).  At a 40 mph  impact, the car 
falls apart.  Yet the cabin is relatively  unharmed.  At 36, the damage is far 
less severe (but still  catastrophic).  And the only thing I can think of to 
explain the damage  done to the front, is that there's no solid engine block in 
the  front there to take the brunt of that blow.  It's all going to the  
frame, panels, etc, etc.  Which, given this design, that is *exactly* what  it's 
supposed to do.  Ideally speaking, if you were to get into a very bad  wreck, 
that impact energy has to go somewhere.  It can't just peter  out.  So, you have 
two options as to where that energy is going to end up:  on the car, or on 
the driver & passengers.  Needless to say, we want  the car to absorb the 
energy, and leave the people inside unscathed.  Which  the DeLorean has an 
*excellent* track record for doing.

There have been reports of DeLoreans getting into horrible  wrecks.  And 
we're not talking about 15 mph accidents in parking lots here,  we're talking 
highly serious crashes.  And each one of these wrecks that I  can recall, the 
driver walked away unscathed, or with minimal injury.  I  believe it was All State 
who helped fund the safety-portion of the DeLorean  project.  Seems to me 
that they would be in the know as to how to make a  car safe enough.
Perfect example, there was one car where the trailing arm bolts in the rear  
of the frame sheared off.  From what I understand, the car partially fell  
apart while moving, and flipped over.  Driver walked away.
Another example, I heard of one DeLorean being *driven over* by  another car 
with the driver still inside.  Roof of the car collapsed, but  not 100%.  
Driver walked away.
I don't think either case had a passenger, just a driver.  But I could  very 
well be mistaken.
All I can say is, if you wear your seat belt, the car is essentially  safe.  
:)  This goes for *any* car.  And safety, really, is  relative.  All wrecks, I 
don't care at what speed, or at what angle, or  what car, they *all* have the 
potential to kill someone.  A car  with all the latest safety equipment is 
100% useless unless that equipment is  being used.  Does your friend wear his 
seat-belt all the time?  If  not, I bet safety isn't what he's really grabbing 
for.  If you really  want, install an airbag system in the steering wheel.  
And, if feasible,  perhaps on the passenger dash as well.  You could also install 
a 5-point  seatbelt harness system, like they have on those hyper-cars and 
racing  vehicles.  There's a lot of rice-boys out here who have those installed 
in  their Civics, so I can't imagine the harness being *that* expensive.   But 
alas, I haven't done my research on that part yet.  Yeah, it's  rice.  But if 
you want safety.....
>From what I understand, the frame is designed similarly to a Formula 1  
racer.  Back when the cars were being made, I believe DMC made the claim  that the 
driver could survive a 60 mph head-on impact.  However, the word  "could" 
doesn't always lend itself to probability.
At the end of the day, he's just jealous that he doesn't own one, or can't  
own one.  Some people, when they get jealous, get hostile.
It might also help that at one point the car was dubbed the "DSV-12" or  
something to that effect, which meant "DeLorean Safety Vehicle."
Just one man's $0.02.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 9
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 07:30:05 -0800
Subject: RE:DMC (Texas) Addresses SonnyV

I want to go on record agreeing with Marc, David T., and others - the "SonnyV" 
story is much too important to be swept under the rug.  Anyone who already has 
a major corner on the parts and service market and still has to resort to 
deception (fraud?) of that type has some serious problems with "Business 
Ethics 101".  As I noted before, Stephen is, after all, a protoge' of ol' Ed 
and if he condones that type of activity by James or others, it doesn't speak 
well of him.  And just so all my cards are on the table, DMCH's business 
practices are one of the major reasons I made the decision to get out of the 
DeLorean parts business after 18 very successful years.  They made it more and 
more difficult for the "little guy" by reducing or eliminating discounts on 
parts for resale.  Even with a huge inventory of my own, sooner or later you 
need parts from them, and you can't stay in business if you have to pay retail 
like everyone else.  Sorry to be blunt but that's the way it is.
Darryl T.


Message: 10
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 09:35:03 -0600
From: Bob Brandys <>
Subject: Re: Bill need a new automatic

Bill Miller called me last night.   He award winning (for the most 
mileage) Delorean, now at 290,000 miles appears to have worn out its 
automatic transmission.    I think his transmission has set a record.  
I know I have never had an automatic last even 100,000 miles.

He has replaced the computer and regularly changed the trans fluid but 
it no is popping in a out of gear.

Bill in now in the market for a slightly used automatic transmission.

Anyone got one?

BIll is not on the list and works like 80+ hours per week, so he does 
not have time to be in the net.

He will probably have Dave B. install it.

BOB Brandys


Message: 11
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 16:01:47 -0000
From: "Joe OBrien" <>
Subject: Re: DMCH's shifter boot early wear/tear ?


I've noticed this on certain cars, not in particular to DMCH's shift 
boots, but on cars where it appears the clearance between the 
shifter and the metal ring is different by a few tenths of an inch. 
Some cars rub and wear holes in ANY shift boot, and some where the 
clearances are larger, never wear the boots out.

This is just a little oddity I've noticed after trying out over 25 
cars by noticing the slight differences in clearance from the edges 
in reverse & 5th. Some are fine, some cut it close. When it is a 
clearance issue, the manufacturer of the shift boot doesn't matter, 
either it'll rub or it won't.

Hope this helped dispell any faulty shift boot rumors.

Joe OBrien


--- In, "Stephen M. Jones" <smj_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> I purchased one of the new shifter boots that use a metal bracket
> just over a year ago and already the boot has developed holes on
> either side (from using 5th gear and reverse). After the fact, I 
> noticed that the metal bracket had sharp edges and they could 
> be smoothed and prevent this from happening.  If you have one of 
> new boots and you've not torn it, I'd suggest you'd check yours out
> to make sure you don't accidentally cut your boot.


Message: 12
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 16:28:03 -0000
From: "uroglas2005" <>
Subject: DeLorean Windscreens

[MODERATOR NOTE - Yes - a blatant Ad from a newly subscribed member, but ONE shot at this is OK. It is related to the DeLorean and it might come in handy for the UK group.]

Good afternoon,
I thought that your members may be interested to know that we have
produced brand new DeLorean windscreens and that they will be
available for purchase within 2-3 weeks.
I believe the prices to be the best in the U.K, but if I'm wrong, I'm
sure that your guys will let me know!
Perhaps you would be kind enough to take a look at our web site
and your comments would be greatly appreciated.
Best regards,
Martin McCreedy
Specialist Automotive Glass Dist.
Bromsgrove, England
Tel:      01527 577477
Fax:     01527 576577


Message: 13
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 12:51:17 -0600
From: Bob Brandys <>
Subject: Re: Re:Another D owner in LV?

Who is DeLotus?

Is he knew to LV?

That would make the 5 D owner in LV

Robin McNeill?
THe woman who got one for her birthday and won't tell us who she is.

Maybe t here is hope for a LV  delorean club.



Message: 14
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 19:28:49 -0000
From: "Charlie" <>
Subject: Re: Need help

I agree with endotex23, and also giving this guy "Stainless Steel 
Illusion"(NOT a plug) won't help cause honestly -You know by the time 
your read this post HE your co-worker doesn't really care anyway.

Enjoy your D and live the dream!!!


--- In, "endotex23" <endotex23_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> --- In, "Jennifer Moe" <jennymoe4_at_dml_y...> 
> >  I am a very new owner and one of the people I work with is
> slamming 
> > my D.  


Message: 15
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 20:15:51 -0000
From: "gzapf" <>
Subject: Re: hazard/headlight switch bulbs

I cannot recall my source, but I believe they're also called Type 74.
 I've bought a couple from but haven't
installed them yet.  Autolumination (
also carries a variety of #74 bulbs in LED and colored-lensed
incandescents.  SpecialTAuto, et al are going to be the best bet for
original style replacement though.


--- In, "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> Can anyone tell me what type of bulb(s) the hazard & headlight
switch bulbs 
> are?
> Mine have been burned out forever and I want to replace them. Would
a local 
> partshouse have these or do I need to get them from a vendor? Are
there LED 
> equivelants? (I doubt it but I'm asking anyway)
> Thanks,
> Rich A.
> #5335


Message: 16
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 23:16:22 -0000
From: "Dave" <>
Subject: Re: Need help

Hi Jennifer...

A good question to ask your co-worker is "what specifically makes the
car unsafe?"  You might discover that his answer is lacking and will
expose his limited knowledge of the car.

Usually when someone tries to 'inform' me about my car, I usually just
ask specific questions about their statement(s).  9 times out of 10,
they usually can't contribue much beyond their original statement. 
And when that happens, my follow up is usually "so you really don't
know then."

Of course that's not a good way to make friends and influence people.
 But if he is going to knock the car, screw em.  ;-)

My $0.02
Dave Jacobs

P.S.  Congrats on your car!  Go have fun with it and ignore Mr. Party

--- In, "Jennifer Moe" <jennymoe4_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> I am a very new owner and one of the people I work with is slamming 
> my D.  Course I think he is just jealous because he has always 
> wanted one, I mean who doesn't.  So I need some help. 


Message: 17
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 15:18:30 -0800
From: Owen Emry <>
Subject: silly oil change question

Okay, I've changed my oil a few times, now, and I've not figured out how to avoid making a mess.

Once the oil plug is removed, the oil shoots straight out, hits the frame, and splatters impressively.  Similarly, after removing the filter, the oil makes a mess of the side of the engine.

Is there any clever way to make the process neater, or am I going to have to bite the bullet and do the epoxy floors in the garage?  ;)



Message: 18
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 13:10:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Shannon Yocom <>
Subject: DMC Desktop Images

DeLorean desktop images for the taking:
(If the link does not work go to / gallery tab / "Desktop
Images" link

Some DML long-timers may recognize a few of these.

Shannnon Y

Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.


Message: 19
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 23:42:49 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <>
Subject: Re: silly oil change question

Get a bigger bucket, and/or hold it closer to the frame.

Dave S

--- In, Owen Emry <owen_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> Okay, I've changed my oil a few times, now, and I've not figured 
out how to avoid making a mess.
> Once the oil plug is removed, the oil shoots straight out, hits the 
frame, and splatters impressively.  Similarly, after removing the 
filter, the oil makes a mess of the side of the engine.
> Is there any clever way to make the process neater, or am I going 
to have to bite the bullet and do the epoxy floors in the garage?  ;)
> -Owen


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