From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2469
Date: Monday, February 07, 2005 8:04 PM


There are 20 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. installed trailing arm bolts in my automatic this weekend (with pics)
From: "sweitzel_2000" <sweitzel_at_dml_lffltd.com>

2. Re: The EARLY Deloreans
From: "cbl1739" <cbl302_at_dml_sbcglobal.net>

3. Re: Re: The Rare Deloreans
From: DMCVIN6683 <dmcvin6683_at_dml_wi.rr.com>

4. Re: ski rack adapter
From: "Stian Birkeland" <delorean_at_dml_netcom.no>

5. Legend Testing (WAS:The Rare Deloreans)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

6. Re: Re: The EARLY Deloreans
From: Steve Stankiewicz <protodelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>

7. Re:Clarify vin number pre production
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

8. Re: Took car out on first drive in 1 1/2 years, not without problems, though
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

9. Re: The EARLY Deloreans
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

10. RE: Re: The Rare DeLorean
From: "Dan Deutsch" <danrc30_at_dml_hotmail.com>

11. RE: Re: The Rare DeLorean
From: "Dom Diaz" <dom_diaz_at_dml_hotmail.com>

12. Re: The EARLY Deloreans
From: "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>

13. Re: Re: The EARLY Deloreans
From: Josh Haldeman <jhaldeman_at_dml_fuse.net>

14. RE: Re: The Rare DeLorean
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

15. Re: Re: The EARLY Deloreans
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

16. Re: Re: The Rare Deloreans
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>

17. Factory RHD cars -or- "Dan is Bored."
From: "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>

18. Re: The EARLY Deloreans
From: "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>

19. The Rare DeLorean
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

20. RE: Re: Took car out on first drive in 1 1/2 years, not without problems, though
From: "Joseph Kuchan" <josephkuchan_at_dml_hotmail.com>





Message: 1
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 07:00:47 -0000
From: "sweitzel_2000" <sweitzel_at_dml_lffltd.com>
Subject: installed trailing arm bolts in my automatic this weekend (with pics)



I took the plunge and finally removed my old TABS with TOBY tabs. My
car currently has only 7,068 miles on it but I figured now would be as
good of a time as any to get them replaced. I had previously inspected
my OEM tabs and found them to be snug and in good condition. HOWEVER,
i did find out something interesting. First off, my car only had 1
jamb nut on the front of each trailing arm bushing bracket. The rear
bolt was shorter and did not have a jamb nut. I ended up finding out
what was causing the occasional rear end clunk even after I had
verified earlier that the OEM tabs were snug. Seems that the rear
bracket bolt on the passenger side (without the jamb nut) was over
halfway unscrewed and well on it's way to falling out!!!. Needless to
say the problem has been corrected. Now, onto the TABS. As most people
mentioned here, removing the TAB on the passenger side wasn't too bad
once I loosened the bushing bracket to allow for some flexability.
There was little if any corrosion on the TABs and both sides ended up
sliding right out of both the trailing arms and the bushings. For the
driver's side, I ended up following the advice dispensed on these
boards over the years and disconnected the trailing arm from the rear
carrier on the driver's side. I found that I had to completely unbolt
the bushing bracket from the frame in order to gain enough flexability
with the arm and the bolt to angle the arm up high enough and slide
the bolt out above the transmission. I also elected to double-nut both
sides with the nuts provided with the Toby Tabs. Since reassembly is
exactly reverse of assembly, I took a bunch of detailed photos of the
reassembly process of just the driver's side so folks doing this on
automatic cars have a reference. FWIW, I did this laying on my back on
the floor of the garage with the car on ramps above me. I hope the
photos are useful. They're in an album in the photo section called
Toby TAB install. Thanks to all for the good advice in previous postings.








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 2
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 09:04:48 -0000
From: "cbl1739" <cbl302_at_dml_sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: The EARLY Deloreans



I maybe totally wrong,as I have no "direct proof" I am basing it on 
a article written in the DW magazine,back in 1987,when this type of 
info was easier to gather,
I am just assumeing that the Delorean Factory,Consolidated 
Leasing,The California Tech Center,a Mr.Tim Baranski(i think) from 
the Classic car center,and Dave Kunk,and Delorean World knew what 
they are/were talking about,as that is where this info was gleemed 
from,plus the fact that since I had gotten vin 00570,back around 
1989,I have kept my eyes out for any low vin Deloreans to 
surface,and in all that time I have seen very very few low vin cars 
surface,maybe about a dozen or so,you have to ask yourself what 
happened to them that they never surfaced,sure it could be possible 
that a collector here and there might have one that has yet to 
surface,but the fact,that the bulk of these cars,just plain 
disappeared,from the days when the factory was still in business,is 
highly suspect,could  QAC or the factory have used them for 
parts or other? uses.Again NOT saying they did,but for the last 15 
years,this question has been bugging me.Where have those early cars 
gone,they were MADE,but where did they disappear to,as they were 
ASSIGNED Vins,(and the vin lists show that they were being used,in 
one fashion or other)and saying that,if those 
were "sellable",cars,then if anyone could just prove that they left 
the factory or QAC and were sold,that would solve a 15 plus 
mystery,of where ARE the MISSING Deloreans.
Again can anyboby PROVE that they acutally left the factory(or QAC)
and were NOT destroyed(the missing cars not the ones that surfaced)
or at least were sold in some way,AFTER the factory stopped using 
those cars for their purposes.As they were NOT considered "new" cars 
anymore,and therefore,could NOT be sold thru the DMC dealers,again I 
know for a fact that vin 570,was NEVER a sold thru any DMC 
dealership,but thru a liquidator.AFTER the plant shut down.(not 
kapac)
 
The other question you have to ask yourself would a car such as vin 
502 been "sold" to the general public(as this was a company mule car)
if the Company had not folded.My guess would be No.
That car and others like it most likely survived ONLY because they 
became liquid assets during lean times before or after the company 
shut down. 

One last mystery HOW did the company dispose of those first 500 
Black bodies? That would be a hell of a lot of wasted company money 
on both labor and material and disposal costs. So the company 
was "not" afraid to dispose of a big lot of items,in one fashion or 
other.What one possibility is that those black shells were cut into 
sections,to try to sell for Body shell repairs or other? Could those 
missing Deloreans gone the same route(recycled as parts for the 
assembley line cars or for QAC to cannablise for cars at QAC,this is 
only a guess,and NOT fact.  

Regards
Claude     


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Louie" <louie_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> 
> I tend to agree with Robert on this one. And let's think about it 
> this way: DMCL couldn't have afforded to allot the first 150 cars 
> for strictly factory uses never to be sold to the public. The 
> company was already very late in getting the cars into production, 
> and were strapped for cash. They had already practiced assembly on 
> the "black cars." Why would they continue to essentially throw out 
> money by keeping these first cars for company use when they could 
be 
> used for badly needed profit and in turn, PR? They needed to get 
the 
> cars into customer hands ASAP. At the same time there were needs 
for 
> tests cars and the like, and being that the cars were now being 
mass 
> produced all they had to do was chose several. Undoubtedly they 
> would use some of the early cars just to get these necessary evils 
> out of the way, and also because they likely knew the first run of 
> cars would be a bit "cobby" and it would be better to go ahead and 
> use the needed amount of cars with these early production cars 
> instead of using higher quality later cars which would be better 
> suited for retail buyers. I have no doubt that a handful of the 
> first 150 cars had some sort of company usage, be it for PR 
> purposes, training for workers by rebuilding them, company cars, 
> etc; but I have never seen any evidence that this ENTIRE run of 
cars 
> was to be used SOLELY for company purposes and NOT meant for 
general 
> public consumption. Sorry Claude, but you can't badger us into 
> believing the first 150 cars were not for the public by repetedly 
> insisting your viewpoint is correct, when you really have no 
> evidence to back up these claims. If you can get JZD or another 
big 
> wig factory rep to come out and say your viewpoint is correct then 
I 
> might change my mind. But otherwise I see no conclusive evidence 
to 
> back up any of your ideas.
> 
> Louie Golden
> VIN 5252 Charlotte, NC








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 3
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 07:37:32 -0600
From: DMCVIN6683 <dmcvin6683_at_dml_wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Re: The Rare Deloreans


Read Ken K's post, he clearly said JZD said vin#500 was the first 
production car and they were meant to be sold as production cars.

End of discussion as far as i am concerned now, JZD set the record 
straight for us all.

Mark V


On Feb 5, 2005, at 9:36 PM, vin00538 wrote:

>
>
> Okay Let me tell you this then, My 00538 Has not been DOT tested, I 
> have no Door
> plate vin, On dash only, no way to verify this car was tested for US 
> Sales, Also no date
> or month of Build, no weight limits, no emissions mentioned. Now what? 
> Have I
> convinced you yet? I can post some more pice in the pic section check 
> them out vin-
> 00358,
> Lawrence
>
>
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, DMCVIN6683 <dmcvin6683_at_dml_w...> wrote:
>>
>> I agree if they were DOT tested would make them production cars 
>> because
>> if they were pre-production they would have never wasted their time 
>> DOT
>> testing them.
>>
>> Tell me why they would DOT test a pre-production car that was never
>> meant to be sold?
>>
>> Mark V





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 4
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 14:21:08 -0000
From: "Stian Birkeland" <delorean_at_dml_netcom.no>
Subject: Re: ski rack adapter



Yup Robert - that was me :)

The ski rack works excellent Ray - but like Robert says - you have to 
load it the right way, like the brochure shows you.

I foresee three possibilities:

1) You have a non-original DMC ski rack

2) You load the skis on the right and left side. Wrong. You have to 
load it all in the middle. The skis are supposed to be within the T-
panel area.

3) Very long and very wide skis *might* get you in trouble. I have 
standard cross-country skis. Works fine.

Very best wishes from snowy Norway
*WOOSH*
Stian Birkeland
VIN # 06759



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_c...> 
wrote:
> 
> 
> Unless you're loading it wrong, I see no reason that it should 
hinder
> door operation.
> 
> http://dmcnews.com/faq/img/docs/doc_06a.gif
> 
> Maybe it's not a real DMC rack?
> 
> I know that there's another DML'er here on the list has the Ski 
Rack,
> because he out-bid me on eBay a couple of years ago (no hard 
feelings.
> In fact, since he skis, and I don't, I'm, glad he got it). If there
> was any issue with loading the skis and poles, I'm certain that he
> would have mentioned it by now.
> 
> -Robert
> vin 6585 "X"
> 
> 
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, tahoeray_at_dml_a... wrote:
> > 
> > I HAVE AND USE AN DELOREAN SKI RACK- IT MOUNTS ON THE LUGGAGE 
RACK 
> > ATTACHMENT. IT HAS A PROBLEM- IF YOU MOUNT MORE THAN I OR 2 SETS 
OF
> SKIS YOU CANT OPEN 
> > THE DOORS --THE RACK IS A STANDARD SKI RACK AND IS WAY TO WIDE. I
> CAN ANSWER 
> > ANY QUESTION YOU HAVE.
> > RAY PETRAGALLO
> > TAHOERAY_at_dml_A...
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 5
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 06:06:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Legend Testing (WAS:The Rare Deloreans)


Testing was also done on Alpine (310, I believe). 
They use the same engine configuration as the DMC.

A few years back when I was spending more time
researching the Legend story, I was able to get some
information on both of the Alpines fitted with Legend
engines.  I believe they both still exist.


--- therealdmcvegas <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net> wrote:

> p.s. VIN 502, and other cars that were sent to
> Legend Industries were 
> vehicles that were going to have proven turbo
> packages installed. 
> Actual testing of the Legend set up was "proven" on
> seperate 
> drivetrains that were outside of vehicles, in
> cradles. A description 
> of the Legend shop was given in an old article that
> was written back 
> in '83 or so, that backs this up.



		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 6
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 06:34:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Stankiewicz <protodelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: The EARLY Deloreans


I find it impossible to believe that there were ever
500 produced in the VIN 0001 thru 0500 series.  More
likely it was just the batch of VINs that were set
aside for this purpose.  I'm sure they knew that
they'd never make 500 black cars, but instead as their
assembly processes were refined, black cars were
likely reassigned higher VINs, still within the 0-500
range for documentation purposes.  (Like software
versioning)  

I'd be interested to hear form anyone who actually
knows.

Steve

--- cbl1739 <cbl302_at_dml_sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> One last mystery HOW did the company dispose of
> those first 500 
> Black bodies? That would be a hell of a lot of
> wasted company money 
> on both labor and material and disposal costs. So
> the company 
> was "not" afraid to dispose of a big lot of items,in
> one fashion or 
> other.What one possibility is that those black
> shells were cut into 
> sections,to try to sell for Body shell repairs or
> other? Could those 
> missing Deloreans gone the same route(recycled as
> parts for the 
> assembley line cars or for QAC to cannablise for
> cars at QAC,this is 
> only a guess,and NOT fact.  
> 
> Regards
> Claude     



		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 7
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 09:28:49 EST
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re:Clarify vin number pre production


Some of these cars and I do not know how long it lasted had the information  
on the dash vin plate only.  It is a different vin plate from what most of  us 
are used to but in the early cars this alternate plate was used and there was 
 no door vin number plate. 
Vin 500 is the same way in Cleveland and it is the FIRST PRODUCTION CAR so  
like many other things since the dash can be easily removed my guess is that  
they added the second vin number to the body for better control and less chance 
 of vin number swapping.
 
Ken


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 8
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 15:20:30 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Took car out on first drive in 1 1/2 years, not without problems, though



Your symptoms would seem to indicate that once the car warms up and
you get vacuum advance it is better. Vacuum advance only becomes
available when the engine is warmed up so now you have to check if
your base timing is right and if you are getting mechanical advance.
Mechanical advance is not dependant on temperature. You could also
have worn spark plugs (the gap is too big) or bad ignition wires or a
weak coil. Other systems also work differently when the car warms up
like Lambda and the air intake. You may have to check them all.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Matt Spittle" <supermatty_at_dml_p...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Just wanted to clarify this, since I had an opportunity to drive the 
> car a little further this time until the temp reached the halfway 
> point (180?).  
> 
>








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 9
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 15:08:26 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: The EARLY Deloreans



It would seem that you took some early mis-information and tried to
use it to make your car seem more valuable than it really is. In any
case you no longer own vin 570 so what is your point? Even Johnny
Carson's car was owned by DMC but it is not valuable because of it's
low vin and no one is saying it is. As far as the "black" bodies they
could have been mixed in to the production of the early cars as most
of the parts that were on them must have been. Most of your knowledge
of Deloreans is from 20 years ago and much of it is incorrect
especially your removal method for doors. Your claim that you "didn't
have a manual" doesn't mean they didn't exist, only that you never
read it for the correct procedure. I cannot recall in any printed
matter anything saying any vin after 500 was not a "Production" car.
Even the cars dedicated to company purposes WERE production vehicles,
ie, they were made on a production line, they were just intended for
company purposes and maybe, eventually, for sale maybe to the
employees or the general public. In any case it is a BIG leap to say
they were intended for destruction. It is fairly common for auto
companies to sell thse kinds of cars to their employees. Eventually
the employees would have sold them to the general public. Events
changed everyone's plans. After vin 500 every car had all the
paperwork to be able to title and register. A pre-production car that
was never intended for sale to the public would not have the
necessary, origional paperwork and would not have a vin plate with a
vin #. It would look like Pilot #25. Your arguments trying to make vin
570 more valuable only continue to perpetuate misinformation as does
your advice on door removal.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "cbl1739" <cbl302_at_dml_s...> wrote:
> 
> 
> I maybe totally wrong,as I have no "direct proof" I am basing it on 
> ads
> Claude     
> 
> 
> 








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 10
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 10:25:32 -0500
From: "Dan Deutsch" <danrc30_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Re: The Rare DeLorean


Man is this thread boring! But I gotta say two things:
 
1)    He doesn't even own vin 570 anymore. he sold it. So he's arguing about
a car he doesn't even own.
2)    That comment about Cuban refugees at sea being members of the DOA was
PRICELESS!!! Lol!!!
 
---Evil Dan
 
PS- I think Ken summed it up from JZD's comments about vin 500. 
 
 
 
 
Give credit where it is due, Pilot is very rare, Legends are rare, Gold
plated is rare -- survivors if you like.  Vin 570 (I believe that's yours),
is... well... Vin 570.
 
Jack Stiefel -- Tampa, Florida
www.fmtimemachine.com
Direct listen link: www.live365.com/stations/radiocape
 
 
 
I'm not seeing the connection here between refugees at sea, and 
DeLoreans. Are you saying that the Cubans were members of the DOA?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 11
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 10:25:03 -0500
From: "Dom Diaz" <dom_diaz_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Re: The Rare DeLorean


Correction, VIN 570 WAS his. At this point Claude just likes to argue for 
the sake of arguing. The very point that the owners (exception: Cluade is no 
longer an owner) have to convince other Delorean owners about the augmented 
value of their cars says they are just looking for a reason to be special 
("Really, I swear, it's worth more than yours - Scott Baio once leaned on 
the left front fender!")

Dom


[long quote trimmed by moderator]





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 12
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 16:07:33 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: Re: The EARLY Deloreans



Production started _at_dml_ serial # 500. But just because a # starts that 
high, doesn't mean that anything existed before it. Much in the same 
fashion that P.T. Barnum, and other circus' would give their wagons, 
and equipment higher #'s, when they painted them on the side. It gave 
the appearance that the show was much bigger than it really was. And 
in the same way, it makes people go, "Wow, that DeLorean Motor 
Company. They crash tested, and practiced on over 499 DMC-12s before 
the production run, just to make certain they got their product 
right!" Obviously, neither is true.

What happened to these cars in question? They're probably locked up 
by some hardcore collectors, who purchased them at various 
liquidation sales. What more can you say? Hell, the prototype car was 
over the hill from Las Vegas for MANY years, and no one knew about 
it. Dusty garages, sealed storage units, forgotten barns. Many cars 
are hidden, and will hopefully one day be found when someone 
discovers them. Like buried treasure that no one made a map for, and 
anyone who knew about it is now dead. It will just take some time for 
them to surface.

Now, just like many corporations that provide company cars to higher 
up employees, these vehicles most likely would have been reassigned 
to various employees as they left, and joined the company. And in 
turn would have been disposed of thru some sort of sale/donation, 
when the new models were put into production. No, DeLorean Motor 
Company would not have been able to dispose of these cars in question 
via the dealership network. After all, that is reserved for *New* 
cars only. However, there is no law stating that a company isn't able 
to liquidate used vehicles from it's >>>fleet<<<.

So once again, these are NOT pre-production vehicles. And there is 
absolutely nothing to indicate that anything in these vehicles 
production and assembly process dictates that were not meant for 
consumer usage, nor were intended to be destroyed. If these cars 
consumed components that were used durring the training process, that 
still doesn't mean/justify a thing, since these cars were products of 
an up and running production line, as they were stamped with VIN 
plates. Exclusion from the dealer distribution network does NOT mean 
pre-production!

As for vehicles such as VIN 502, it too is nothing more than a 
production run vehicle that was excluded from the dealer distribution 
network for. Whatever it's purpose was meant to be doesn't matter. 
It's still a production vehicle! DMCL had no hand in these vehicles 
assignments whatsoever.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "cbl1739" <cbl302_at_dml_s...> wrote:
> 
> 
> I maybe totally wrong,as I have no "direct proof" I am basing it on 
> a article written in the DW magazine,back in 1987,when this type of 
> info was easier to gather,
> I am just assumeing
<SNIP>








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 13
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 12:13:18 -0500
From: Josh Haldeman <jhaldeman_at_dml_fuse.net>
Subject: Re: Re: The EARLY Deloreans


Like DeLorean 3.1 beta?  (hee-hee)

-Josh



Steve Stankiewicz wrote:

>I find it impossible to believe that there were ever
>500 produced in the VIN 0001 thru 0500 series.  More
>likely it was just the batch of VINs that were set
>aside for this purpose.  I'm sure they knew that
>they'd never make 500 black cars, but instead as their
>assembly processes were refined, black cars were
>likely reassigned higher VINs, still within the 0-500
>range for documentation purposes.  (Like software
>versioning)  
>
>I'd be interested to hear form anyone who actually
>knows.
>
>Steve
>
>  
>






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 14
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 10:28:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Re: The Rare DeLorean


Your car was touched by a guy to kiss Jennifer
Runyon??  I must have it!  How much??


--- Dom Diaz <dom_diaz_at_dml_hotmail.com> wrote:

<SNIP>
> ("Really, I swear, it's worth more than yours -
> Scott Baio once leaned on 
> the left front fender!")
> 
> Dom



		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 15
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 10:35:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: The EARLY Deloreans



Ahh.. Since 502 is just a regular "production vehicle"
fitted with a Legend Twin Turbo engine, then 1860 must
have a similar value to 502???  1860 is also a
production car fitted with a Legend engine!

....  I could only wish!

To say 502 is nothing more than a production run
vehicle may be technically correct, but the history of
this car makes it VERY special.  I give this car the
same respect as I would to Proto1.  


--- therealdmcvegas <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net> wrote:
<SNIP>
> 
> As for vehicles such as VIN 502, it too is nothing
> more than a 
> production run vehicle that was excluded from the
> dealer distribution 
> network for. Whatever it's purpose was meant to be
> doesn't matter. 
> It's still a production vehicle! DMCL had no hand in
> these vehicles 
> assignments whatsoever.
> 
> -Robert
> vin 6585 "X"



		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do?
http://my.yahoo.com 





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 16
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 12:32:22 -0500
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>
Subject: Re: Re: The Rare Deloreans


I happened to visit VIN 500 at the Crawford Museum Saturday night.  Here 
are a few other details:

VIN 500 was donated by Jeff Abrams, a Consolidated executive, not 
purchased by the Crawford.

VIN 500 is displayed with its factory window sticker, just like any 
production car at any new car dealership.  The VIN on the sticker 
matches the VIN on the dashboard.  I doubt that pre-production cars get 
such stickers.

To me the window sticker is clear evidence that VIN 500 and every 
DeLorean thereafter are "production" DeLoreans.

- Mike Substelny


Koncelik_at_dml_aol.com wrote:

>John and I had this conversation years ago in Cleveland when we had the  show 
>at the Crawford.  That question was asked a few times if my memory is  
>correct.
>The first production 
>HEAR THIS 
>PRODUCTION
>car was bought by the museum to have as the FIRST DeLorean off the  
>PRODUCTION line
>It has vin 500 and it had at that time I think 8 or so miles on it.
>The museum has this car and its claim to fame is that it IS the first  
>PRODUCTION CAR off the line.  That means it was meant to sell because it  was bought 
>by the Museum.
> 
>So if Vin 500 is the FIRST PRODUCTION car and John had said that VIN  500 was 
>the beginning of production of the DeLorean Then that is good enough for  me. 
> 
>These cars were to be sold.  Vin 501 and 502 were done to help promote  the 
>turbo and then these cars were to start rolling off the line (slow  production 
>at this point) but sold.
>I saw two more of these cars in Columbus and the owner was telling me they  
>were pre production cars but he bought them off a dealer I believe. The vin 
>tags  were a bit different but that was about the only thing I could see that was 
> anything significant.
> 
>So I hope this helps as John himself considered VIN 500 to be there first  
>Production car.
>There were many changes in there first 100 cars as they did not build many  
>per day and made changes as they found issues.
> 
>Ken
>  
>






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 17
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 18:46:04 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: Factory RHD cars -or- "Dan is Bored."



I'm sorry you're bored, Dan. Let me get things exciting for you, by 
throwing a little more gasoline onto this discussion.

Now that we've established that anything built after VIN #500 is NOT 
a facotry pre-production vehicle, let's tackle the other issue of RHD 
cars, and why I totally agree with Chris Parnham.

Since their completions were not products of a functioning production 
line that was specificly intended for Right Hand Drive vehicles, we 
cannot call them "RHD Production Cars".

HOWEVER, these vehicles, were converted to right hand drive, whilst 
their legal ownership was retained by DMCL, and BEFORE they were 
released from the factory for public sale/distribution. Sure, the 
work was farmed out to Wooler Hodec, for the conversion process. BUT, 
since this work occured BEFORE the cars offered for public sale 
and/or distribution, these vechilces are therefore "Factory RHD". 
They may not be "Production RHD", but they are factory built, 
regardless of where, and by whom the work was performed, since it 
occured before it was for sale to the general public, and no specific 
guidelines had yet been layed down, as to what specifications 
a "Production RHD" car needed to meet.

Since there are no Production Specifications that these cars must 
adhere to, that allows for variances such aerials, foglights, marker 
light colors/placement/absence, etc... The same goes for the "Factory 
Euro-Spec", LHD cars. Not "Production" vehicles, since there was no 
assembly line/finalized standards that they had to be held to. But 
these are "Factory" vehicles none the less.

These cars were *produced* by the factory, but were NOT "production" 
vehicles, as they did not come from a production line.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Dan Deutsch" <danrc30_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> 
> Man is this thread boring!
<SNIP>








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 18
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 19:03:09 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: Re: The EARLY Deloreans


Strictly speaking of the vehicle itself, minus drivetrain & all post-
factory modifications, from an engineering standpoint, due to it's 
production time based upon chronological order, YES. VIN 502 is NOT a 
pre-preduction vehicle.

It may have been retrofitted later on to test a new drivetrain 
configuration, and as such has since build up it's own unique, if not 
LEGENDary reputation. That's true, and I wouldn't argue with that. 
I'm just simply saying that this car in question started out life as 
a production vehicle, that's all.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Ahh.. Since 502 is just a regular "production vehicle"
> fitted with a Legend Twin Turbo engine, then 1860 must
> have a similar value to 502???  1860 is also a
> production car fitted with a Legend engine!
> 
> ....  I could only wish!
> 
> To say 502 is nothing more than a production run
> vehicle may be technically correct, but the history of
> this car makes it VERY special.  I give this car the
> same respect as I would to Proto1.  
> 
> 
> --- therealdmcvegas <dmcvegas_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> <SNIP>
> > 
> > As for vehicles such as VIN 502, it too is nothing
> > more than a 
> > production run vehicle that was excluded from the
> > dealer distribution 
> > network for. Whatever it's purpose was meant to be
> > doesn't matter. 
> > It's still a production vehicle! DMCL had no hand in
> > these vehicles 
> > assignments whatsoever.
> > 
> > -Robert
> > vin 6585 "X"





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 19
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 11:07:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: The Rare DeLorean


[MODERATOR NOTE: With this response to his own message, Marc Levy gets the last word on the Rare DeLorean topic.  Unless someone has something useful to add you may consider the thread closed.  - Mike Substelny, DML moderator of the week]

The price of this car is going up!!

Scott Baio also dated Pamela Anderson, Erika Eleniak,
Nicole Eggert, Natalie Raitano, Nicolette Sheridan,
Brooke Shields, and Heather Locklear. 

I *NEED* that DeLorean!

:)

--- Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com> wrote:

> 
> 
> Your car was touched by a guy to kiss Jennifer
> Runyon??  I must have it!  How much??
> 






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 20
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 13:17:01 -0600
From: "Joseph Kuchan" <josephkuchan_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Took car out on first drive in 1 1/2 years, not without problems, though


I haven't been following this thread, so I might be way off base here, but 
if the car is running poorly until it warms up, the issue could also be the 
converse of what David Teitelbaum suggests: The three port vacuum switch 
applies vacuum to the warm up regulator until the car is warm so if there 
was a vacuum leak on the warmup regulator side of that vacuum switch or a 
problem with the cold control pressure (under the control of the warmup 
regulator) that could also make the car run poorly until it is warmed up.

What David suggests - that base timing is off - is certainly possible. Just 
want to point out that you shouldn't overlook the possibility that something 
is amiss over on the warmup regulator side of that vacuum circuit.

Again, I haven't been following this thread and may be way off, so if I am 
just chalk it up to that!

-Joe Kuchan

>From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [DML] Re: Took car out on first drive in 1 1/2 years, not without 
>problems, though
>Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 15:20:30 -0000
>
>
>
>
>Your symptoms would seem to indicate that once the car warms up and
>you get vacuum advance it is better. Vacuum advance only becomes
>available when the engine is warmed up so now you have to check if
>your base timing is right and if you are getting mechanical advance.
>Mechanical advance is not dependant on temperature. You could also
>have worn spark plugs (the gap is too big) or bad ignition wires or a
>weak coil. Other systems also work differently when the car warms up
>like Lambda and the air intake. You may have to check them all.
>David Teitelbaum
>vin 10757
>
>
>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Matt Spittle" <supermatty_at_dml_p...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Just wanted to clarify this, since I had an opportunity to drive the
> > car a little further this time until the temp reached the halfway
> > point (180?).





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    dmcnews-unsubscribe_at_dml_yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------