From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2497
Date: Sunday, February 27, 2005 8:23 PM


There are 5 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: delorean turbo question
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

2. RE: Re: delorean turbo question
From: "Darkstar" <darkstarmedia_at_dml_comcast.net>

3. Re: High Idle
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

4. Re: High Idle
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

5. Re: delorean turbo question
From: "Matt Spittle" <supermatty_at_dml_psu.edu>





Message: 1
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 17:47:41 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: delorean turbo question



Actually a turbo installation should go better on an automatic *in
general*. It has to do with the match-up of the power curves of the
forced induction from the turbo and the power curve from the torque
converter. On a Delorean they don't seem to match up so good. IMHO the
clutch packs are way too small and will slip and wear too quickly for
the longevity required of a street car. The other big problem is there
is no provision for the vacuum modulater so you get abrupt, hard
shifting. Good for the poor little clutch packs (less slipping) hard
on the drivetrain and the occupants of the car. The turbo packages DO
deliver on their promise of more power. The major problems are:

1) The more power you try to get out of the turbos the less life you
have in the drivetrain (keep the boost below 5-6 lbs)
2) If you want more power AND longevity you have to do a lot more than
bolt on a turbo, you have to change pistons, rings, etc.
3) The way the turbo is installed has a LOT to do with how well it
will work and how long things last.(timing, fuel adjustment etc)  
4) Finally, how (and where) you drive the car. I suspect Dick Ryan got
such good results was because of his altitude. His effective boost
pressure was actually lower than he realized because he was way above
sea level. Anyway if you flog the car, always running at high boost
and low octane and don't mind the racket from all the pinging, don't
expect the motor to last long without complaint.

The bottom line is you do get some benefit from forced induction but
overdone it WILL eventually wear things out prematurely. If you are
reasonable about your expectations and don't overdo things a turbo is
a worthwhile upgrade. It does increase maintainence, adds complexity,
increases fuel consumption, and requires more expensive, higher octane
fuel. 
 At this time I do not know if there are ANY turbo packages still
available new. Island Turbo does not have any new kits to sell at this
time. Legend Industries is bankrupt and out of business.
BTW on Dick's car although the engine and drivetrain were still
working after 75,000 miles both turbos had blown oil seals. With only
30,000 miles on them and no other damage I can only guess either the
oil was not changed often enough and/or the oil used was inferior. It
is possible a different torque converter would improve the performance
on an automatic but with non available off-the-shelf you would have to
custom build one and experiment. A very expensive way to go. It could
take several before you accidently hit the magic combination of parts.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
> I sort of second David's comments - but only sort of.
> 
> I ran twin turbos on my first DeLorean which was an
> automatic.  After some 30,000 miles with the turbos
> (installed when the car already had over 40,000
> miles), there were no transmission problems.  
> 
> promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail








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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 11:14:44 -0700
From: "Darkstar" <darkstarmedia_at_dml_comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Re: delorean turbo question


where did you get the forged pistons and performance rods at??

Thanx,
Darkstar

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave [mailto:v-davidj_at_dml_microsoft.com]
Sent: February 26, 2005 10:31 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: delorean turbo question





Hmmmm....didn't cost me that much.

How much do the BAE kits usually go for?  I have seen them for about
$3k.

-Forged Pistons, rings, rods, pins $800
-Fuel system tuning (re-routing vacuum for CPR, hobbs switch, other
parts) $60
-MSD Blaster Coil2 $60

Added Equipment for Precautions:
-Remote oil filter for turbo $15
-Electric oil pump with aeroquip lines $200 (for external filter)
-Oil cooler kit w/aeroquip lines $100
-Transmission Cooler Kit w/aeroquip lines $100

Considering you do all the work yourself, and you get a BAE kit, you
could get it done, with the added precautions for about $4k and
change.

If you didn't get the BAE kit, it would probably cost you just as much
to build one yourself.  You can find good turbos with wastegates for
about ~$600 (i.e. Ebay Item# 7957433987).  Get some intake piping made
for you at a muffler shop if you don't have a tig or mig welder to do
the work youself.  Shouldn't cost you very much.  There really isn't
much to the BAE kit...if I were to make one myself, I estimate it
would probably cost me about $900 total which includes a Dynomax or
Flowmaster muffler, and all Aeroquip lines.

I suppose if you went with electronic fuel injection, which you really
don't need to do, that could cost you about $2500 to convert your car.
 That could bring you up to $6500 in parts.

Marc is correct that if you don't do the work yourself, you could
easily pay upwards of $10k or more to have it done.

FYI
Dave Jacobs

P.S.  My car (automatic) doesn't eat oil.  Running _at_dml_ 10psi  =)



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_y...> wrote:
>
> Can you still get new turbo setups??
>
> It is unfortunate, there are (IMHO) no good cost
> effective performance modifications that can be done
> to the DeLorean.
>
> The turbo kits that have been around are OK, but even
> if you limit the boost to 6 lbs (as most do) you risk
> internal engine damage.  Usually a cracked ring.  Dick
> Ryan (who lives at higher altitude than the rest of
> us) is the only person I know who has reported no oil
> burning on his bolt-on turbo setup.
>
> To do turbo's correctly, you would need a full engine
> rebuild using turbo-parts (Pistons and rings are the
> biggest problem).  I would also suggest a electronic
> engine management system that is turbo-aware to get
> optimum performance and reliability... But this
> project would probably get up in to the 10K plus price
> range.
>
>
> Exhaust improvements are a good idea.  There are some
> kits already out there.  The DMC exhaust system is a
> BIG bottleneck and probably the best place to start.
> However, if your future plans include turbo chargers,
> it will limit your exhaust options.
>
> I don't know if DMCH sells their exhaust system alone
> (or only with the full engine upgrade), but you can
> call them and check.  I find the DMCH system to be too
> loud, but it may not be too difficult to swap the
> mufflers with something a little less noisy (SonnyV
> says I am too old!).
>
> DeLorean UK also has a nice exhaust system, but I have
> not heard it so I cant comment on the noise.
>
> http://www.delorean.co.uk/DMUK/perfomance.html
>
>
> --- coreysmoo <coreysmoo_at_dml_h...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > hi.  i am currently thinking about installing a
> > turbo on my delorean
> > in the next coming months.  i was just wondering if
> > anyone out there
> > has any advice for me before i get into this little
> > endevor.  also,
> > does anyone living in the chicagoland area have a.)
> > any experience
> > in this, and or b.) know any shops around that have
> > done this for
> > deloreans before.  also, what am i looking at,
> > cost-wise for this
> > project.
> >
> > on another note, i was kicking arond the idea of a
> > straight pipe
> > exaust system.  anyone out there have any advise?
> >
> > corey
> > #2423
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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> http://mail.yahoo.com








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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 18:33:33 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: High Idle



Could be as simple as the throttle cable sheath slipping out of the
adjusting screw (engine end), in effect shortening the cable a good
1/4" or so. Ensure your throttle plates are indeed fully closed by
popping off the throttle spool connecting rod. Position shouldn't change.

My cable sheath slipped out once when I was still K Jetronic with
exactly your symptoms. 

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Woody <BePositive2000_at_dml_Y...> wrote:
> 
> I'm stumped. Car insists on running at 2400-2600 rpm. 
> 
> I've diagnosed the idle circuit by removing the ECU plugs and doing all
> the tests. I did not have the temp curve for the thermistor but the
> resistance variation approached that of a chart I had for a Volvo B28F.
> Nothing seems to be binding in the linkage, throttle plates are closed
> at idle, air metering plate not binding.
> 
> 
> 
> I tried checking the frequency valve with a dwell meter attached to the
> orange wire on the diagnostic plug, but not sure I was reading the
> dwell correctly.  One book says read dwell on 4 cylinder scale, other
> books, including the Delorean manual do not say what scale so I assume
> they mean the 6 cylinder scale. I don't have a gas analyzer and cannot
> find anyone around that will check CO who knows the engine.
> 
> This car had been in storage for 5-7 years so I removed & cleaned the
> tank, cleaned the lines, and replaced the pump, cold start injector,
> control pressure regulator, injectors and fuel distributor with those
> from my wrecked D which had most of these components replace in the
> past 2 years.  Installed new accumulator, as well.
> 
> In addition, I installed a new thermistor, replaced most of the vacuum
> lines, checked for vacuum leaks in the system and did not find any.  
> 
> The past 2 days I've also noticed a new possible problem.  The car
> starts hard after sitting for several hours.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions or sites to look for answers.  I
> thought had troubleshot about every conceivable problem with the
> injection system but this one has me stumped.
> 
> Woody
> 
> 
> 		
> __________________________________ 
> Do you Yahoo!? 
> Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more.
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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 4
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 18:50:26 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: High Idle



Make sure you hooked up everything you swapped out correctly. Pay
particular attemtion to the vacuum hoses around the control pressure
regulator and the spark advance. Test the cold start valve for proper
operation when cold and cranking. Use a meter on the idle switch to be
certain it works. Check the air tube under the mixture unit where it
inserts through the "O" ring for leakage. Disconnect the frequency
valve for testing. Close down the air screws. Check the rest position
of the air sensor plate. The metering plunger could be sticking in the
mixture unit and/or the mixture adjustment could be way off. Make sure
the solenoid valve on the spark advance is working. Check the decel
valves on the throttle plates to be sure they are closed. 
These are just a few things to check. Any one or a combination can
cause a high idle. Most commonly it turns out to be a lot of little
vacuum leaks but since you changed so many things you can't assume any
particular place to start.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Woody <BePositive2000_at_dml_Y...> wrote:
> 
> I'm stumped. Car insists on running at 2400-2600 rpm. 
> 
> I've diagnosed the idle circuit by removing the ECU plugs and doing all
> the tests. I did not have the temp curve for the thermistor but the
> resistance variation approached that of a chart I had for a Volvo B28F.
> Nothing seems to be binding in the linkage, throttle plates are closed
> at idle, air metering plate not binding.
> 
> 
> 
> I tried checking the frequency valve with a dwell meter attached to the
> orange wire on the diagnostic plug, but not sure I was reading the
> dwell correctly.  One book says read dwell on 4 cylinder scale, other
> books, including the Delorean manual do not say what scale so I assume
> they mean the 6 cylinder scale. I don't have a gas analyzer and cannot
> find anyone around that will check CO who knows the engine.
> 
> This car had been in storage for 5-7 years so I removed & cleaned the
> tank, cleaned the lines, and replaced the pump, cold start injector,
> control pressure regulator, injectors and fuel distributor with those
> from my wrecked D which had most of these components replace in the
> 








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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 23:32:17 -0000
From: "Matt Spittle" <supermatty_at_dml_psu.edu>
Subject: Re: delorean turbo question



If you really need more fuel, why not rig up the cold start valve to 
start spraying once you get to the higher RPMS?  :)

Matt
#1604









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