From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2502
Date: Thursday, March 03, 2005 5:28 PM


There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. DCS new cover PREVIEW
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

2. Reminder - Detriot AUTORAMA Cobo arena
From: dmcnews

3. Reminder - Detriot AUTORAMA Cobo arena
From: dmcnews

4. Re: PRV Performance - Set me straight please
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

5. bilstein struts
From: "rodrael1" <rodrael1_at_dml_yahoo.com>

6. Re: Reproduction Illuminated Key Blanks
From: "dmc3989" <dmc3989_at_dml_yahoo.com>

7. Re: Started my frame-off restoration!
From: dmcjohn_at_dml_hotmail.com

8. Re: Opaque Coolant Bottles
From: "gzapf" <x86Daddy_at_dml_myrealbox.com>

9. Stainless Frame Vs Galvanising.
From: dmcjohn_at_dml_hotmail.com

10. Delorean engine and gear box
From: "g9cafuk" <g9cafuk_at_dml_gmail.com>

11. RE: Stainless Frame Vs Galvanising.
From: "Kevin Milliken" <kevin.milliken_at_dml_btinternet.com>

12. Re: bilstein struts
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

13. RE: Re: PRV Performance - Set me straight please
From: "Rick DeVaux" <rdevaux_at_dml_titan.com>

14. Re: PRV Performance - Set me straight please
From: "Rick" <rdevaux_at_dml_titan.com>

15. DOT 5 Brake questions
From: "Charlesdos Mavor" <charlesmajor_at_dml_hotmail.com>

16. Re: DOT 5 Brake questions
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

17. Re: DOT 5 Brake questions
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net

18. Re: Galvanizing the Frame
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net

19. Re: PRV Performance - Set me straight please
From: "endotex23" <endotex23_at_dml_yahoo.com>

20. Re: Delorean engine and gear box
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

21. A/C or Cooling Fan Bug
From: Enid/Jeremiah <hispanicangeleyes_at_dml_yahoo.com>

22. Re: Re: Opaque Coolant Bottles
From: Enid/Jeremiah <hispanicangeleyes_at_dml_yahoo.com>

23. Re: Re: Opaque Coolant Bottles (An Explanation)
From: Enid/Jeremiah <hispanicangeleyes_at_dml_yahoo.com>

24. Re: Started my frame-off restoration!
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>

25. Re: Frame strip - epoxy removal sample
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>





Message: 1
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 23:17:02 EST
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: DCS new cover PREVIEW


Well we thought we would  tease you a bit on the next issue of  DCS
We plan to release it around the first of April if we get all the articles  
in by the deadline.
 
Anyway I think if you liked our first cover you will definitely like this  
Spring issue.
 
To check out the cover go to _www.deloreancarshow.com_ 
(http://www.deloreancarshow.com)  click on store  or magazine or one of the pictures of the 
magazines to go to the magazine.
It is also on the home page about half way down to the right.
 
The rest of the magazine is as good as the cover looks.
 
We had a credit card problem where we were down for a week or so but that  is 
fixed so we are ready to take orders. (thanks to Gary for fixing it)
 
The magazine is doing well. Thanks to the diversity of the Car Show, tech  
articles, interviews and personal articles we feel the magazine is growing in a  
direction that will be of interest to all DeLorean owners.
 
I have had a few people say they did not get the magazine because it  was 
just about the DeLorean Car Show only.  This is only a part of  it.
The magazine centers around the car show, local events, and every  aspect of 
the car and people that support the car.
 
Thanks for your support. 
 
 
Ken 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 2
Date: 3 Mar 2005 15:02:02 -0000
From: dmcnews
Subject: Reminder - Detriot AUTORAMA Cobo arena


We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Detriot  AUTORAMA  Cobo arena 

Date: Sunday, March 6, 2005 
Time: 10:00AM EST (GMT-05:00) 

Detroit's Biggest Auto Show of dragsters,funny cars,fuel cars
race cars,antique car,vintage cars. my Delorean will BE THERE
Vin00538 

 




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Message: 3
Date: 3 Mar 2005 15:02:02 -0000
From: dmcnews
Subject: Reminder - Detriot AUTORAMA Cobo arena


We would like to remind you of this upcoming event.

Detriot  AUTORAMA  Cobo arena 

Date: Friday, March 4, 2005 
Time: 10:00AM EST (GMT-05:00) 

Detroit's Biggest Auto Show of dragsters,funny cars,fuel cars
race cars,antique car,vintage cars. my Delorean will BE THERE
Vin00538 

 




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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 04:29:37 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: PRV Performance - Set me straight please



According to the literature (through 1985):

B28E and B28F pistons are identical except for height (65.3mm overall
vs 62.8mm). Diameters do vary however (irrespective of engine series):
 "A" marked pistons go in "1" marked liners (90.975mm), "B" marked
pistons go in "2" marked liners (90.985mm), and "C" marked pistons go
in "3" marked liners (90.995mm).

Connecting rods are identical.

1980 B28F camshafts have 6.004mm max lift (stamped 7401269138 left and
7401269139 right).
1981 onwards B28F and all B28E camshafts have 5.96mm max lift (stamped
7401269615 left and 7401269616 right).

Valves and springs are identical.

Ignition distributors are indentical. Timing spec is 10 degrees BTDC
for both E and F series (at 900 rpm). Volvo distributors have a much
sharper advance curve than DeLorean by virtue of having both
centrifugal counterweights active. Ported vacuum is run to them
directly rather than full vacuum via a cutoff solenoid. 

All B27 and B28 throttle plates are the same size. B27 throttle plates
do lack deceleration valves. As you've surely noticed, B27 fuel/air
mixture units are single piece assemblies (integral throttle plates)
and B28 are two pieces (separate throttle plate assembly). There's no
place to attach a CIS microswitch on a B27 unit, nor an extra screw on
the throttle plate arm to trip one. Air sensor plates and fuel
distributor activation levers are identical.

Intake manifolds are identical. U pipes vary only in routing of PCV.
Note that one of my B28F U pipes (1989) does have a cruise control
cable bracket cast into its underside.

Series 004 CPR's start at ~12 PSI and warm up to ~51 PSI at 155
degrees F. Series 038 CPR's start at 0 PSI and warm up to ~51 PSI at
160 degrees F. Series 066 CPR's start at ~15 PSI and warm up to ~51
PSI at 110 degrees F. Series 004 has no full throttle enrichment.
Series 038 full throttle enrichment is active at all times, operated
directly by manifold vacuum drop. Series 066 full throttle enrichment
is only active below 125 degrees F (via a thermal vacuum cutoff) and
even then is only active for ~10 seconds (via an equalizing delay
valve). DeLorean lowers thermal cutoff to 104 degrees F.

All B28 fuel injectors are identical (Bosch #0437502013, Volvo
#12692745). B27 injectors open at slightly lower PSI (Bosch
#0437502005, Volvo #2691848). They are interchangeable (CO adjustment
screw compensates), but in complete sets only! (Can not mix B27 with B28).

The only part numbers I don't have are fuel distributors (ask John
Hervey). E series differ from F series by lacking Lambda influenced
lower chambers (lower chambers are there, but operate at line pressure
at all times. Are fed internally). You can accomplish the same thing
by simply unplugging the frequency valve.

As to your best course of action: Are you planning to rebuild the
engine, or simply change bolted on components? The only way to
increase compression is a rebuild with taller pistons. You can do a
lot even with 8.5:1 however. I'd recommend unplugging your frequency
valve, swapping the 004 CPR for 038 (don't forget full throttle
advance -- that's a vacuum port on the 038, not a "vent"), and
ensuring ignition vacuum advance is routed directly to the ported
vacuum barb under the throttle plates (if you've got the funny advance
diaphragm with two barbs simply use the outer one). CO can be
increased closer to 2% (European spec, albeit high compression). You
may need to remove the catalytic converter. If you've got a smog pump
(air injection pump), that can be removed too (check valve may have
rusted -- I'd recommend removing attendant plumbing and capping off
the manifold ports). If you've got EGR, it can be removed too (simply
cap the U Pipe port with a plate and gasket as DeLorean did).

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Rick" <rdevaux_at_dml_t...> wrote:
> 
> 
> I've got a stock '80 B28F in my Volvo 262(K-Jet, Lambda/cat/freq 
> valve, de-accelerating valves on throttle plates, ignition 
> distributor with vacuum delay solenoid, stock F cams, stock F 
> pistons, 004 warm up regulator, no micro switches, same full 
> distributor as a stock Delorean).
> 
> I also have my original B27F that has the smooth throttle plates.  
> I've also got new B28E cams and pistons, and a B28E dizzy from a UK 
> spec Volvo.
> 
> Question:  What is the best configuration I should go with to improve 
> performance?
> My consideration:  Use B27 throttle plates, de-Lambda the engine (O2 
> sensor, cat and freq valve), use the B28E dizzy and remove the vacuum 
> delay solenoid components, B28E cams and pistons, advance timing from 
> 10 to 13 and adjust CO from 1% to 1.5-2.0%.
> I'm also trying to hook up with a B28E fuel distributor and CPR.
> 
> When I'm looking to locate the B28E fuel distributor do I need just 
> the distributor or do I need the distributor and the air intake?  
> Which CPR should I look for, 038 or 066? Remember, no micro switches.
> 
> After replacing all the components, what is the best way to tune for 
> best results without the Lambda system?
> 
> I'm also considering doing some head porting.  Does anyone have any 
> pointers/tips on doing PRV heads?  I know the exhaust really needs at 
> least gasket matching and a good cleaning and polish.  What about 
> doing the intake?  Any tips on how to match the intake manifold to 
> the heads?
> 
> I have a source to have headers made but I'm trying to get 
> information on what the best specs for the headers will be: runner 
> length, tube ID/OD and collector size.  Thanks for any and all help!  
> Rick








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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 04:36:01 -0000
From: "rodrael1" <rodrael1_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: bilstein struts



Steve, my delorean mechanic is pretty swift on these cars and said 
that on a previous delorean he worked on he put some off the shelf 
Bilsteins by matching the sizes and etc from the delorean's  He was 
trying to find the original part numbers he used back then but 
doesn't have them anymore...   Does anyone?  Also how about a good 
cross reference part number for vented brake rotors?  And twin turbo 
kit for under $5000.? 

Rodney
#3300








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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 07:32:08 -0000
From: "dmc3989" <dmc3989_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Reproduction Illuminated Key Blanks



If the illuminated key blanks were available I think there would be 
a reasonable demand for them, I know some of us either have non-
functioning illuminated keys or like myself, somewhere along the 
line the previous owner opened the key and removed all the inner 
workings of the bulb, most likely when the battery died, and I would 
like to replace or repair it in some way. Even something like 
replacements for inner workings of the bulb would be nice.
Josh
3989


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "James" <james_at_dml_u...> wrote:
> 
> 
> DMC (Texas) had the regular molded head keyblanks done a couple 
years
> ago, and have gotten the illuminated key blanks quoted. I'm hoping 
to
> have them made them later this year, retail about $25-$30, for both
> early and late key systems. Is there a demand for this style key at
> this price?
> 
> We have some pre-cut early style door lock keys here, if you know 
the
> key code. These keys are incomplete, just being the "key half" 
without
> the DMC logo half/button or battery and internals.
> 
> James Espey
> DMC (Texas)
> http://www.delorean.com
> 
> 
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "dmc3989" <dmc3989_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> >  
> > Hello-
> > Does anyone have any idea where I can find a replica of the the 
> > original door key for the early VIN Deloreans with the push 
button 
> > light!? Ive searched all the usual part retailers but everyone 
tells 
> > me they arent available anymore. Thanks for your input.
> > 
> > Josh
> > VIN 3989








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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 12:33:53 -0000
From: dmcjohn_at_dml_hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Started my frame-off restoration!


Hi Rich,

Did someone really leave his frame in an acid tank for years?! Wow, 
what a waste of time... Why did he not try a stronger acid?

I need to dip the frame in acid to remove epoxy from the areas of the 
frame a sandblaster will not reach, such as inside the engine 
subframe and inside the rear shocktowers. If I don't get the epoxy 
off, the galvanising will not work well in these areas. Of course, 
the galvanising is hot enough that it will burn off any epoxy that is 
left over, but I want to get as much of it out of that area as 
possible to get as good adhesion as possible between the zinc coating 
and the frame.

I have a guy coming to inspect the frame from the acid stripping 
place in 2 weeks, and I think we will be testing on a sample area of 
the frame where the epoxy is in excellent shape, such as the top of 
the frame. This will give us a good idea whether it is viable or not 
to dip the frame in his tank.

There is also the closed section of the front crossmember, but as I 
will be opening that section up to replace the bottom plate, I can 
sandblast the inside of that area. So really it is only the rear of 
the frame that really needs to be dipped.

As for galvanising warping the frame - I am aware that this can 
happen, but in the 9 or 10 cases I've heard of people hot-dip 
galvanising their DeLorean frames, no-one has experienced any 
warpage. Also, all Lotus Esprit frames are hot-dipped galvanised, and 
they turn out fine, and they are basically the same design!

As long as the galvanising company takes care, there should be no 
problem. Even if it does warp I don't think it will be very 
significant, and should be repairable back to factory specs as 
detailed in the back of the Workshop manual. On the retapping of the 
bolt holes in the frame, this won't take too long, and its a small 
price to pay for a completely rust proof frame.

Spot repairs, POR-15, etc would be fine if I was not planning on 
keeping the car forever. Ultimately, if you simply weld in patches, 
paint POR-15 over the area, and respray, the rust will return again. 
Galvanising is the only real long term solution, apart from obviously 
replacing the frame with a Stainless one. After going to the trouble 
of taking the car apart, I'm planning on fixing it right and fixing 
it once and for all by going thru galvanising and powdercoating. 

What do you do with DeLorean frames when restoring them at your 
DeLorean Welding Center (DWC)? How do you stop and/or repair rust in 
the impossible to reach areas without using a dipping process?

Thanks,
John
PS Don't worry, I plan to give my Dad back his garage space before 
the summer is over :)

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_o...> wrote:
> 
> 
> John,
> 
> You may want to re-consider a few of the things you mentioned
> regarding the stripping and refurbishing of your frame.
> 
> Acid dipping - to do this in such a way as to remove the epoxy
> and not damage the mild steel underneath, you may have your
> frame in a solution for several YEARS.  





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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 16:33:23 -0000
From: "gzapf" <x86Daddy_at_dml_myrealbox.com>
Subject: Re: Opaque Coolant Bottles



I installed John Hervey's Fan Fix 2x2:
http://specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/modifications.html

Same purpose as a FanZilla, somewhat different operations, but quite
effective.  When I bought my car, it had the old blue fan fail relay,
etc...

--Greg
#2894

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Farrar \"Doc\" Hudkins"
<dochudkins_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
> --- gzapf <x86Daddy_at_dml_m...> wrote:
> > I haven't had an overheat since I upgraded my
> > electronics ...
> 
> Greg,
> 
> In what way did you upgrade your electronics?
> 
> Farrar









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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 12:40:39 -0000
From: dmcjohn_at_dml_hotmail.com
Subject: Stainless Frame Vs Galvanising.



Hi all,

On the subject of Galvanising DeLorean frames, I think there would 
definitely be a market for someone to remanufacture the DMC frame in 
the style of the Pearce frame, in mild steel, galvanised and 
powdercoated. It would offer the great benefits of the Pearce frame 
such as the redesigned trailing arm attachment, greater strength than 
the original, completely rustproofed (a galvanised and powdercoated 
frame should last at least 75 years before any rust shows through, 
probably even much longer than this!). In addition to these benefits, 
it would look completely original, and should cost significantly less 
that the Stainless version. 

Would Bryan Pearce consider doing this as he already has the facility 
to remanufacture the frame? Have any of the major service centers 
considered a project like this?

Thanks for any feedback!

John








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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:27:20 -0000
From: "g9cafuk" <g9cafuk_at_dml_gmail.com>
Subject: Delorean engine and gear box



Hi, i am currently selling a engine beleved to be for a delorean if 
its a actual delorean it is very good for your members but if not i 
have been informed that a lot of parts of this engine will transfere 
between several engines including the delorean
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&rd=1&item=7958942845&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT








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Message: 11
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 18:33:32 -0000
From: "Kevin Milliken" <kevin.milliken_at_dml_btinternet.com>
Subject: RE: Stainless Frame Vs Galvanising.


Hi John

I thought I saw something a couple of years ago about potential problems
with
Galvanising in respect of warping the frame? I think the outcome was
"perhaps it may be a problem".

I hope this helps.


Regards


Kevin #5959


-----Original Message-----
From: dmcjohn_at_dml_hotmail.com [mailto:dmcjohn_at_dml_hotmail.com]
Sent: 03 March 2005 12:41
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Stainless Frame Vs Galvanising.


Hi all,

On the subject of Galvanising DeLorean frames, I think there would
definitely be a market for someone to remanufacture the DMC frame in
the style of the Pearce frame, in mild steel, galvanised and
powdercoated. It would offer the great benefits of the Pearce frame
such as the redesigned trailing arm attachment, 





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Message: 12
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 10:10:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: bilstein struts


How long ago??  Bilstein did make a DMC specific shock
at one point.  Last I checked, they no longer make
them.


--- rodrael1 <rodrael1_at_dml_yahoo.com> wrote:

> Steve, my delorean mechanic is pretty swift on these
> cars and said 
> that on a previous delorean he worked on he put some
> off the shelf 
> Bilsteins by matching the sizes and etc from the
> delorean's  He was 
> trying to find the original part numbers he used
> back then but 
> doesn't have them anymore...   Does anyone?  Also
<SNIP>





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Message: 13
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 11:48:12 -0700
From: "Rick DeVaux" <rdevaux_at_dml_titan.com>
Subject: RE: Re: PRV Performance - Set me straight please


Bill, Thanks for the great reply.  Since I have new cams and pistons I'm
planning on a rebuild, but that will wait for at least a year.  Engine is
fun to drive as is (no smog pump / EGR / PCV same as a Delorean) but I'll
likely remove the Lambda system once I find a 038 CPR.  A few questions for
you:
My current distributor vacuum advance does have the two barbs.  Do I just
cap off the "inner" barb?  Is there any difference between the E and F dizzy
curves?
 What is the "best" way to remove the Lambda system?  What needs to be
capped off and what needs to be completely removed?  
What's the best way to configure the fuel distributor sans freq valve?
Do you recommend removing the deceleration valves and filling in their holes
or replacing the throttle plates with the ones from the B27 or leaving as
is?
Once the Lambda is removed is tuning basically setting desired timing and
CO?

Since I've got the B27 to play with I was considering looking at head
porting possibilities.  Any tips, pointers or warnings?  Thanks again for
the reply, Rick









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Message: 14
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 19:13:08 -0000
From: "Rick" <rdevaux_at_dml_titan.com>
Subject: Re: PRV Performance - Set me straight please



Bill, How does the 018 CPR perform?  Thanks, Rick








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Message: 15
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 18:45:17 -0000
From: "Charlesdos Mavor" <charlesmajor_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: DOT 5 Brake questions



OK,
This is the smartest bunch of folks on the net so here it is. I 
drained, flushed, filled, and pressure bleed with DOT 5. I know that 
it is slightly compressible so it will not perform as well as the 
castro. DONT put it in CLUTCH- I am good with that too. I sent in 
some masters off another car to Apple brake cylinder service to 
sleeve and make kits. He said to use Valvoline SynPower High 
Performance Dot 4 Brake Fluid. He said that DOT 5 eats rubber- WHAT? 
I thought that stuff was inert! I know that he builds brakes 
everyday, but I trust you guys more. Do I need to get that DOT  5 
out or is this guy confused?
Charles Major








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Message: 16
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 11:38:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: DOT 5 Brake questions


I use Castrol GTLMA .

The standard stuff is not good for the rubber parts in
the brake system.

--- Charlesdos Mavor <charlesmajor_at_dml_hotmail.com> wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> OK,
> This is the smartest bunch of folks on the net so
> here it is. I 
> drained, flushed, filled, and pressure bleed with
> DOT 5. I know that 
> it is slightly compressible so it will not perform
> as well as the 
> castro. DONT put it in CLUTCH- I am good with that
> too. I sent in 
> some masters





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Message: 17
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 19:30:49 +0000
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: DOT 5 Brake questions


You are both confused.  The best fluid for Girling brake and clutch
systems, which is what your DeLorean has, is Castrol GT-LMA.  
Castrol is by far the friendliest fluid for the rubber compounds that 
Girling uses.  All other fluids, regardless of DOT classification will
cause seal failures within 6-12 months.  This is not limited just
to DeLoreans, the Lotus guys have the same experience.  

--
Mike


-------------- Original message from "Charlesdos Mavor" <charlesmajor_at_dml_hotmail.com>: -------------- 


> 
> OK, 
> This is the smartest bunch of folks on the net so here it is. I 
> drained, flushed, filled, and pressure bleed with DOT 5. I know that 
> it is slightly compressible so it will not perform as well as the 
> castro. DONT put it in CLUTCH- I am good with that too. I sent in 
> some masters off another car to Apple brake cylinder service to 
> sleeve and make kits. He said to use Valvoline SynPower High 
> Performance Dot 4 Brake Fluid. 





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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 18
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 19:38:08 +0000
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: Galvanizing the Frame


John 

Lotus had 2 things going for them.  First, they had the relative 
luxury of numbers.  They were able to afford fixturing that would keep 
the frame rigid while it was temperature cycled.  This helped prevent
warping.  Second, they had experience.  They ran enough frames to 
be able to modify the design to minimize warping.  It is entirely possible
to build a fixture for a DeLorean frame, but that will significantly drive
up cost, particularly for the first frame.  There isn't much you can do 
about the design at this point.

--
Mike


-------------- Original message from dmcjohn_at_dml_hotmail.com: -------------- 


> 
> 
> Hi Rich, 
> 
> Did someone really leave his frame in an acid tank for years?! Wow, 
> what a waste of time... Why did he not try a stronger acid? 
> 
> I need to dip the frame in acid to remove epoxy from the areas of the 
> frame a sandblaster will not reach, such as inside the engine 
> subframe and inside the rear shocktowers. If I don't get the epoxy 
> off, the galvanising will not work well in these areas. Of course, 
> the galvanising is hot enough that it will burn off any epoxy that is 
> left over, but I want to get as much of it out of that area as 
> possible to get as good adhesion as possible between the zinc coating 
> and the frame. 
> 
[snip]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 19
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 20:59:13 -0000
From: "endotex23" <endotex23_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: PRV Performance - Set me straight please



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_c...>
wrote:

> Series 066 full throttle enrichment is only active below 125 degrees
F (via a thermal vacuum cutoff) and even then is only active for ~10
seconds (via an equalizing delay valve). DeLorean lowers thermal
cutoff to 104 degrees F.<


While several other models of CPR do have it the 066 has no full
throttle enrichment feature. WOT enrichment on the Delorean is
performed by a throttle mounted switch and done electronically by the
Lambda controller. What you're refering to is the 066 acceleration
enrichment, which is something else all together. If it was true full
throttle enrichment it wouldn't be a 10 secound function. It's only
used for cold acceleration under partial throttle and (as you pointed
out) is not active once coolant temperature warms up. 

While we're on the subject owners should know accel enrichment via CPR
was replaced on 1982 and later B28 applications (outside the Delorean)
by using a differential pressure switch to electronically provide
acell enrichment through the Lambda system. This results in improved
response during cold acceleration and relegates the 066 CPR to warm up
enrichment only. This modification can easily be retrofitted to
Deloreans by employing the Volvo switch and an unused input on the
Lambda controller.

To the fellow who wants to remove his Lambda: I'm guessing you don't
really understand it's function or you wouldn't be in such a hurry to
yank it off. However, if you remove it you must also remove the
catalytic converter because you'll render it useless in short order
(or overheat it). And you should leave the Lambda loop active even if
you remove the converter.

Disabling Lambda removes closed loop mixture control. It's better to
leave it for several reasons assocciated with that problem, not the
least of which is emissions. If you want to remove it to gain power
(because of it holding your mixture at stoichiometric) there are ways
to "program" the Lambda controller to deliver any A/F mixture you'd
like within reason. For example you could have best emissions or best
power at the flip of a switch. 

In either case it'd still be operating in closed loop and that beats
leaving mixture control solely in the hands of the basic K Jet. The
fact is closed loop control beats open loop any day of the week for
drivability, emissions, and fuel economy and removing it will usually
get you less performance, not more. I suggest you have access to a
decent exhaust gas anyalzer if you do decide to pull it off, you're
going to need one to get things right. And without closed loop the
mixture (and hence performance) will wander based on numerous
variables. You can also pretty much forget about passing any emissions
test worthy of the name.

Greg








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Message: 20
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 21:02:45 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Delorean engine and gear box



I'm going to speculate that it came from an A310. Should put it around
150 HP (2.7 liter, 2 BBL Solex, 9.5:1 compression). 

Heads are probably transferrable to 2.7 liter only. Notice the
injector locations are catching a lot of light, as if heads are FI
capped off? Looks especially like a hex head at cylinder #5 injector.
Perhaps Martin G can verify this is Renault practice (A310 production
coincided with R30).

Appears to be a coolant return line in the thermal time switch
location, perhaps from a carb preheat. 

Current distributor can only be used with a carbureted manifold (older
style with hold down clamp -- too tall to fit under a K Jetronic
manifold).

Current exhaust manifolds will not clear DeLorean radiator plumbing or
bolt up to the crossover pipe.

Motor mount bosses appear to be in the proper place for a DeLorean
crossmember, but check the angle. Are definitely not Volvo.

Notice the diagnostic plug...

Transmission is of course automatic.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "g9cafuk" <g9cafuk_at_dml_g...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi, i am currently selling a engine beleved to be for a delorean if 
> its a actual delorean it is very good for your members but if not i 
> have been informed that a lot of parts of this engine will transfere 
> between several engines including the delorean
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
> ViewItem&rd=1&item=7958942845&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT








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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 21
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 13:03:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Enid/Jeremiah <hispanicangeleyes_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: A/C or Cooling Fan Bug


Hey guys.

Quick question.

Was driving car today - went to "Vent" on.  As I put
the knob on "Max", I noticed my fans didn't come on,
nor did the "Cooling Fan Fail" light come on (using
FanFix 2x2).  Neither the light nor the fans came on
in "Max", "Norm", or "Bilevel".  Turned on my
"Override Failed Otterstat" switch, cooling fan fail
light and fans came on.  Turned the override switch
off, parked car, let temp get up to 220.  Gauge hit
220, fans kicked on, cooling fan fail light came on. 
Temp got down to 197, fans turned off, cooling fan
fail light turned off.

Now......that the fans had come on as normal, I put
the knob on "Max"....fans now came ON and the cooling
fan fail light turned on.  Put knob on "Off", fans
turned off and cooling fan fail light turned off. 
Obviously something is sticking or failing a little
bit.  My question is what?  I haven't gone through the
DML backissues, nor have I really sat down and found
the problem in the workshop manual (especially since
the A/C schematic has no legend on it so it's just
about impossible for us "n00bs" to figure out what is
what), so please bear with me if it's something really
simple.  I wanted to type all this out before I forgot
any subtle details.

Thanks for your time and thoughts.

Jeremiah

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 





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Message: 22
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 13:05:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Enid/Jeremiah <hispanicangeleyes_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Opaque Coolant Bottles


Agreed on so many levels.  That "coolant bottle light"
as I refer to it (engine compartment light) doesn't
always do it.  It is however, very handy for checking
auto tranny fluid level.

Ultra hip eh?  Hmmm, I'd love to work on my "coolness"
factor; I'll have to try that ;).
> 
> Jim Reeve
> MNDMC - Minnesota DeLorean Club
> DMC6960
> 
> *If you dont already go for the ultra-hip look of a
> mini-maglight
> strapped to your belt perhaps its time to do so, or
> else just have
> some other form of flashlight in the DeLorean at all
> times, comes in
> very handy.





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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 23
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 13:08:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Enid/Jeremiah <hispanicangeleyes_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Opaque Coolant Bottles (An Explanation)


Did that once.  Driving down the road I saw it in the
back.  I almost drove 4x4 style off the road trying to
get to a parking lot to check it.  Always a great
panic attack, and it makes excellent stories.


> Be careful where you route the overflow hose. If
> it's pointed towards
> the engine you may generate a cloud of steam and
> panic yourself
> unnecessarily.
> 
> Bill Robertson
> #5939





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Message: 24
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 21:20:41 -0000
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>
Subject: Re: Started my frame-off restoration!



John,

Regarding the extended stay in the tank, this was first based on
concern over removing too much material in a stronger solution
and second, the estimate for stipping was based on safe stripping
"as long as it would take".  The owner was not in much of a hurry.

As most Delorean vendors know, there are quite a few Delorean
owners that look for the least expensive parts and labor to keep
their car driveable and this is often not a good thing.  Most of
the repairs done by DWC (Delorean Welding Center) have been done
as "frame on" repairs, which are much more difficult to control
quality repairs.  Any intense heat source used on the OEM frame
(welding, cutting torch, etc.) can cause significant distortions
and the best repairs are made "frame off" in a full size jig.
Most Delorean owners want the least expensive solution or quick
fix to keep the car going, which is not best for repair business.

As for the actual repairs, in almost every case heavier gauge
steel has been used, which should last longer than the original
thinner, mild steel.  POR15 is an excellent product that has
proven to be extremely durable on the suspension parts on my
winter transportaion vehicle, bathing in salt spray all winter.
Powdercoating only works if you can get powder to all areas.

As far as galvanizing, I have seen one frame done and the same
one frame warped from the heat.  For some cars, this would not
be much of a problem, but for the Delorean with its stock front
suspension design, there is not much adjustment for correction.
I would not recommend following the path of galvanizing and if
it warps, I will fix it afterwards, especially if the fixing
afterwards involves cutting/welding of the galvanized sections.
This brings up other welding issues as well as more heat again. 

Then there is the weight issue.  The bare galvanized frame with
only a few repair sections welded in weighed in at nearly 90 lbs.
more than the stock, epoxy coated frame.  Powdercoating over it
may add another 10 - 20 lbs.  Why add all this extra weight?

After all the work was done on the one galvanized frame example,
the owner saved only a few thousand over buying a new SS frame.
The owner said if he had the opportunity to do it all over, he
would have purchased the SS frame and not have all the hassles.

As for Pearce Design making lower cost, mild steel frames along
with SS frames, I do not think this will ever happen.  Why mess
with a less desireable material to try to lower cost.  It's nice
to think there would be a market, but there isn't a market now.

Keep in mind this is first hand knowledge, not speculation or
best hopes or best intentions, so weigh all the info accordingly.

Good Luck with your frame refurbishing project.

Later,
Rich W.

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, dmcjohn_at_dml_h... wrote:
> 
> Hi Rich,
> 
> Did someone really leave his frame in an acid tank for years?! 
Wow, 
> what a waste of time... Why did he not try a stronger acid?
> 
> snip <
> 
> What do you do with DeLorean frames when restoring them at your 
> DeLorean Welding Center (DWC)? How do you stop and/or repair rust 
in 
> the impossible to reach areas without using a dipping process?
> 
> Thanks,
> John









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Message: 25
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 21:36:33 -0000
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>
Subject: Re: Frame strip - epoxy removal sample



John,

Instead of having the acid stripping guy trying a sample of the
frame, why not just give him one of the trailing arms to put in
his tank.  Acid solutions react differently if they are doing
their work "in the air" or if the parts are fully submerged.
I believe this would be a better test of epoxy removal and since
the trailing arms are heavier steel, less chance for damage.

One other reason for the frame being in the tank for such a long
time was a liability issue with the stripping company.  If they
weaked the frame by using too strong of a solution, they would
have to honor their replacement policy (a very expensive error).

Whichever route you decide to travel, get it in writing so if
something is damaged in a process, you are better protected.

Later,
Rich W.

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, dmcjohn_at_dml_h... wrote:
> 
> Hi Rich,
> 
> Did someone really leave his frame in an acid tank for years?! 
Wow, 
> what a waste of time... Why did he not try a stronger acid?
>
> snip < 
> 
> I have a guy coming to inspect the frame from the acid stripping 
> place in 2 weeks, and I think we will be testing on a sample area 
of 
> the frame where the epoxy is in excellent shape, such as the top 
of 
> the frame. This will give us a good idea whether it is viable or 
not 
> to dip the frame in his tank.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> John









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________________________________________________________________________


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