From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2539
Date: Thursday, March 24, 2005 4:57 PM


There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. RE: Painting rear louvers
From: "Cecil Longwisch" <dmc1982_at_dml_msn.com>

2. RE: Suggestions
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

3. RE: Re-suggestions
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

4. RE: Painting rear louvers
From: "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>

5. RE: Painting rear louvers
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

6. Re: Suggestions
From: "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>

7. Re: CAR NEARLY STOLEN
From: Enid/Jeremiah <hispanicangeleyes_at_dml_yahoo.com>

8. Thank You Rob Grady and Friends!
From: "beatlesra1" <beatlesra1_at_dml_aol.com>

9. Re: Detroit, US government, and DeLorean
From: "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>

10. Re: DeLorean In Washington DC Post Newpapers & Baltimore Sun
From: "neogeoslug" <neogeoslug_at_dml_yahoo.com>

11. Want to buy a DMC
From: "waldwagen" <waldwagen_at_dml_hotmail.com>

12. Re: Suggestions
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>

13. Re: Want to buy a DMC
From: "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>

14. John Deloreans resting place
From: "cbl1739" <cbl302_at_dml_sbcglobal.net>

15. Re: Re: Detroit, US government, and DeLorean
From: Patrick Conlon <PRC1216_at_dml_aol.com>

16. Re: John Deloreans resting place
From: "neogeoslug" <neogeoslug_at_dml_yahoo.com>

17. Detroit, US government, DeLorean
From: Packodenton_at_dml_aol.com

18. Re: Re: Suggestions
From: Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com>

19. Re: Re: Suggestions
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

20. Re: John Deloreans resting place
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

21. RE: Re-suggestions
From: "Gary Hull" <Specialty_at_dml_IN2TIME.com>

22. RE: Re: Suggestions
From: "Gary Hull" <Specialty_at_dml_IN2TIME.com>

23. RE: Re-suggestions
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

24. Re: Concours- was Blue Book Value
From: "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>

25. Re: Re: Suggestions
From: Chris Shepherd <chrisau79_at_dml_yahoo.com>





Message: 1
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:08:29 -0500
From: "Cecil Longwisch" <dmc1982_at_dml_msn.com>
Subject: RE: Painting rear louvers


You do not want to use a flat or a gloss paint on your louvers. It is a trim 
satin with a patina that is somewhere betwen the two. I painted mine 
twiclast year because I was unhappy with the first outcome of patina. I 
wound up with a Sherwin-Williams paiint that was the right gloss. I went out 
and loked for the can however I aparently discarded it.

Just ask any auto paint store for the black trim paint. Try a little before 
you shoot the whole thing however.

Back on a technical track for the list for a while....I hope!

Cecil Longwisch
#10663





>From: "jrc2905" <jrc2905_at_dml_aol.com>
>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [DML] Painting rear louvers
>Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 20:48:36 -0000
>
>
>
>
>I am repairing the rear louvers fixing a crack and getting rid of the
>holes from a third brake light that was added. What is the color of
>these louvers, flat black? I want to use professional quality paint,
>not spray cans. Has anyone used anything other than flat black? Thanks
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
>moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
>For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com
>
>To search the archives or view files, log in at 
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>







________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 2
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 12:19:54 -0600
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Suggestions


Dick, I agree and passed on a statement almost like yours to the moderators.
John Hervey
www.specialtauto.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Dick Ryan [mailto:deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 9:50 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Suggestions




1.  All moderator comments should be signed with the
moderators name.

2.  Any post that even appears to be from someone who
is trying hide his or her real identity should be
rejected.

3.  No - repeat - no personal slams against another
list member - no matter how slight -  should be
allowed.

As the owner of an independent bookstore I probably
have more first hand knowledge of freedom of speech
than many/most of you.  This is a moderated group
which you have chosen to join.  If you don't like it,
there is another unmoderated group.  Let's cut the
crap!

Dick Ryan



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/





To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
Yahoo! Groups Links













________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 3
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 12:18:18 -0600
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Re-suggestions


Bruce, I find your statement well warranted. As you know I make comments and
I am amazed that some people just can't wait to dispute what I said or say.
If I have experienced something, I don't preach it as gospel but as an
opinion and let it go as that. Like in the welded strut.
I would also like to say if someone doesn't sign their name First and Last I
would like to see it not passed on. Along with profanity. I have brought
this up several times and nothing seems to be done about it. If the board
can't make the decision, then pass it on the us for a vote.
John Hervey


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Benson [mailto:delornut_at_dml_peoplepc.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 10:32 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re-suggestions




As this weeks moderator I should have added my name to the note refered
 to. I guess I'm guilty of  Marcs accusation that I've abused my power.
I hope I'm not alone in my thinking here but I just don't understand the
defiant tone of some posters to this list. For example one person states an
opinion and another cheers him on for having the "guts" to say what we all
really wanted to say. What an absurd statement. I don't have a problem with
someone having a different opinion than me but for someone to assume we all
think out of the same box but lack the "guts" to say it is ridiculous.
 Owning and driving this car is a hobby with most of us, an
obsession with some. We're supposed to enjoy this and share some
camaraderie. Obviously we don't all think in the same direction but a few
subscribers seem a bit too militant for my taste. As one of the
moderators I have always felt I should maintain a neutral stance but, and
I'm speaking as an individual, not as a moderator here, I'm really getting
sick of some of the constant fault finding and whining by a few. My feeling
is that most of us prefer to view the glass as half full.

Bruce Benson







To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
Yahoo! Groups Links













________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 4
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 12:34:11 -0600
From: "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Painting rear louvers


Don Stegar sells some paint that looks perfect, it is KENT Uralastic black 
bumper paint.
You can't buy it in stores, only from dealers like Don, and it is 
expensive... but it looks good.
You will need a couple cans.
- VB

>From: "Cecil Longwisch" <dmc1982_at_dml_msn.com>
>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [DML] Painting rear louvers
>Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:08:29 -0500
>
>
>
>You do not want to use a flat or a gloss paint on your louvers. It is a 
>trim
>satin with a patina that is somewhere betwen the two. I painted mine
>twiclast year because I was unhappy with the first outcome of patina. I
>wound up with a Sherwin-Williams paiint that was the right gloss. I went 
>out
>and loked for the can however I aparently discarded it.
>
>Just ask any auto paint store for the black trim paint. Try a little before
>you shoot the whole thing however.
>
>Back on a technical track for the list for a while....I hope!
>
>Cecil Longwisch
>#10663
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "jrc2905" <jrc2905_at_dml_aol.com>
> >Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> >To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [DML] Painting rear louvers
> >Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 20:48:36 -0000
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >I am repairing the rear louvers fixing a crack and getting rid of the
> >holes from a third brake light that was added. What is the color of
> >these louvers, flat black? I want to use professional quality paint,
> >not spray cans. Has anyone used anything other than flat black? Thanks
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> >moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> >
> >For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see 
>www.dmcnews.com
> >
> >To search the archives or view files, log in at
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
>moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
>For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com
>
>To search the archives or view files, log in at 
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>







________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 5
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 12:36:18 -0600
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Painting rear louvers


Cecil, It would be nice if you can remember what it was. I was using Krylon
but spraying it on a day with no wind or in a control environment. I held
the can back as far as I can to get a kind of sandy looking finish. Krylon
may not be formulated to hold up as long as yours.
John Hervey
www.specialtauto.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Cecil Longwisch [mailto:dmc1982_at_dml_msn.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 12:08 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [DML] Painting rear louvers




You do not want to use a flat or a gloss paint on your louvers. It is a trim
satin with a patina that is somewhere betwen the two. I painted mine
twiclast year because I was unhappy with the first outcome of patina. I
wound up with a Sherwin-Williams paiint that was the right gloss. I went out
and loked for the can however I aparently discarded it.

Just ask any auto paint store for the black trim paint. Try a little before
you shoot the whole thing however.

Back on a technical track for the list for a while....I hope!

Cecil Longwisch
#10663





>From: "jrc2905" <jrc2905_at_dml_aol.com>
>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [DML] Painting rear louvers
>Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 20:48:36 -0000
>
>
>
>
>I am repairing the rear louvers fixing a crack and getting rid of the
>holes from a third brake light that was added. What is the color of
>these louvers, flat black? I want to use professional quality paint,
>not spray cans. Has anyone used anything other than flat black? Thanks
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
>moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
>For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com
>
>To search the archives or view files, log in at
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>







To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
Yahoo! Groups Links













________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 6
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 18:51:54 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: Re: Suggestions



I'll second that, Dick. In that past, I've been in support of allowing
unsigned posts, because of possible negative reprocussions against the
submitter, from the vendors.

However, since we have gotten firm commitments that the vendors will
not discriminate against anyone simply because of unflattering
comments, then I don't believe this to be a vaild argument any longer.

There is no longer any reason for anyone not to sign their VIN #
and/or full name to any of the posts that are submitted to the DML. If
you want your voice to publicly be heard, then it must accompany your
public identity.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
> 1.  All moderator comments should be signed with the
> moderators name.
> 
> 2.  Any post that even appears to be from someone who
> is trying hide his or her real identity should be
> rejected.
> 
> 3.  No - repeat - no personal slams against another
> list member - no matter how slight -  should be
> allowed.  
> 
> As the owner of an independent bookstore I probably
> have more first hand knowledge of freedom of speech
> than many/most of you.  This is a moderated group
> which you have chosen to join.  If you don't like it,
> there is another unmoderated group.  Let's cut the
> crap!
> 
> Dick Ryan  
> 
> 
> 		
> __________________________________ 
> Do you Yahoo!? 
> Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
> http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 7
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 10:42:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Enid/Jeremiah <hispanicangeleyes_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: CAR NEARLY STOLEN



> these people are
> scum.

Sounds like another reason guns were made.  Sorry to
hear this man.  Glad your car is safe though.  That
would freak me to death.

Jeremiah


		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ 





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 8
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 19:57:07 -0000
From: "beatlesra1" <beatlesra1_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Thank You Rob Grady and Friends!



Yesterday I went out to the garage, took off the car covered and woke 
my DeLorean out of her winter hibernation on the first crank. It was 
time to pay homage to the man who meant so much to me in my life. I 
roared up the Ohio Turnpike and the car ran like it had never been 
put away for the winter. 

I met Shannon Yocom, Josh Haldeman and Patrick in Toledo. As we 
screamed up I-75 doing 70mph (Shannon has a lead foot:-) My car 
started to jerk, sputter and then stalled. I was very lucky not to 
get hit by the traffic as I made my way to the side of the hwy and an 
exit ramp but still very much near the roaring traffic. Now I'm 
absolutley no mechanic and I thought I'm in big trouble... I think 
God and JZD himself was smiling on me yesterday because just as I 
started to lift the louvres and contemplate what good that would do, 
out of the driving, blowing snowy rain came a blue-green DMC-12 with 
New Jersey plates, It was Rob Grady who was about 3 mins behind us 
but never knew it! I thought I was gonna cry..Rob immediately looked 
at the engine pushing on this pulling on that and then asked "Have 
you gotten gas lately"? I had, on the Turnpike. "I think you have 
water in the fuel". 

Rob got the car started and everyone followed me until we found a gas 
station which wasn't easy as my car would stall out every 10-15 miles 
on a very wet, windy snowy-rainy I-75 and Everytime the car stopped 
so did everyone else, they all stayed with me until it finally 
straightened out which put us all 1 1/2 hr later than planned to the 
funeral home. 

I hope John knows that not only did he build his dream car for us to 
enjoy, he also built a Brother/Sisterhood the likes I had never seen 
but experienced firsthand yesterday AND when I bought my car back in 
2001 when Tom Wilke and Rick Myosky worked on my car many times and 
wouldn't take a nickle for it. Same to Shannon Yocom and Joe O'Brien 
who adjusted my torsion bars and had fun doing it. I could go on and 
on. 

Thank You again to everyone for all your help yesterday so I could be 
there to pay homage to my Mentor and Inspiration.

AND to Rob Grady, it was really nice to finally get to meet YOU!

Chuck Darling
DCO
Vin #6125








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 9
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:03:50 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: Re: Detroit, US government, and DeLorean



DMC wasn't going to just prooduce one car, and hope to make a living
off the profits and glory of it all. No, John De Lorean wanted to
build an organization that was to become a global conglomorate. And
that's why he got shut down.

Early on, JZD had intentions of taking over another automotive company
to expand his own empire. And he was in some serious negotiations with
Lee Iacoca to have DMC take over Chrysler. Iacoca fended him off, but
that may have put some fearful realizations into the auto industry
that DMC was going to make the Asian imported car invasion look like a
rainy day in the park. Japanese automakers simply took away market
share from American companies, because they were too slow to fill the
niche that American consumers were calling out for. DMC on the other
hand didn't want to take their marketplace shares, they wanted to take
their companies. And DMC could almost have done that...

Allot of people ask "what if"?, but no one has really ever taken a
look at this...

Everyone knows that JZD was pumping cash into the DMC-80 bus project.
But why? Well, aside from being a turn-key automotive project, it had
great potential to be a money maker. GM was really the only other
manufacturer building public transportation buses. And just like
police departments that only have Ford Crown Vic P71's right now if
they want V8 RWD, municipalities too would have been all to willing to
flock to another option. Especially if they were more fuel efficient,
ran cleaner, and had less operating costs. So as you can see, it
wasn't just the sportscar market that JZD was wanting to take on. Just
like the DMC-12, anywhere DMC could fit in, they would get in. And
that's a great business strategy for a fledging company when you think
about it.

Another overlooked facet is AMC. AMC had a partnership with Renault,
because they needed each other. AMC needed fresh vehicles, and Renault
needed AMC's dealer network to distribute their cars. After Renault's
leadership became weakened by the assasination of their president, AMC
was bought by Chrysler. But why? Chrysler, more specificly Iacoca,
hated Renault cars. And Renault was very reluctant to sell to
Chrysler, because they stood to loose millions of invested capital if
Chrysler didn't support their Renault line, and refused to fufil the
AMC contracts for the importation of the A-610, and more importantly,
the commitment to purchase 300,000 PRV engines from Douvrin. Renault
feared Iacoca would back out of these commitments, and they were
right. But why?

Iacoca wanted AMC for one vehicle, and one vehicle alone: The Jeep.
Under his direction, Chrysler buried an entire corporation, and struck
severe financial blows to another, just so that they could get their
hands on that one line. And the only reason that they Cherokee
survived, was because of the SUV market that began to blossom.
Otherwise, vehicles that they didn't want, like the Commanche, & the
Premier were killed off.

So what if DMC were still in business by this time? I've no doubt that
Renualt would have sold AMC off to DeLorean Motor Compnay of America
in a hearbeat. They already had a dedicated vendor to their drivetrain
products who would have no trouble fufilling the commitments of AMC,
and DMC would then have access to Renaults global network to
distribute their products across the globe. More importantly, DMC
would have gotten Jeep. Now, JZD being the hopeless romantic he is
about keeping old nameplates, I'm certain that the CJ-5 would have
been off-limits to change badges. And the fact that keeping the Jeep
intact would have been more profitable. But I don't think it would
have been the same for the rest of Jeep's products. The Commanche
would most likely be DMC's compact truck, with the Wagoneer platform
being developed into a large worktruck platform to compete with Ford &
GM. And the Cherokee would have become the DMC-44, rather than the
original vehicle JZD was looking at (which went on to become the Dodge
Raider/Mitsu Montero). If DMC was around, I've no doubt that AMC would
have been purchased by them, and would have survived, while Chrysler
would have reamined stagnent for much longer. Because the benefits to
DMC/AMC/Renualt would have been equally shared by all.

Now yes, this is speculation on my part, but it is based upon DMC's
business practices. GM may be run like a mighty oak, that slowly
grows, and remains strong enough to weather the economic elements. But
DMC on the otherhand was more like a jungle vine that would grow from
tree to tree, and you'd never have gotten rid of it once it got an
equal foothold in everywhere.

So if you ever question on whether or not there was any "asistance" by
outside forces from the company to shut DMC down, think about this
kind of stuff, and really realize just what kind of a threat JZD was
to the automotive world. And more specificly, other organizations
within it that feed off it, like the UAW.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 10
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:15:48 -0000
From: "neogeoslug" <neogeoslug_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: DeLorean In Washington DC Post Newpapers & Baltimore Sun



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Packodenton_at_dml_a... wrote:
> 
> 
> Washington Post ran 4 excellent articles & pictures of John with the
DMC from 
> Sunday through Monday 21 March.
> 
> Those who want the Baltimore Sun Sunday Paper please email as I will
get them 
> for you.
> 
> Mike Pack
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

And, what sections were these articles in?

Michael








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 11
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:26:24 -0000
From: "waldwagen" <waldwagen_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Want to buy a DMC



I'm looking to buy a refurbished DMC. Does anyone have any 
experience or recommendations about buying one from Delorean One in 
Californai or Delorean Motors in Texas?

Thank You








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 12
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:34:38 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>
Subject: Re: Suggestions


Consider this a combined personal and [ADMIN] post..

We've thought about this and some discussion is probably worthwhile. 
As usual there's a bit more to it. Following are honest questions on 
my part, I'm not taking a side because I really don't know.

What's a "name"? Is "Robert" enough or should there be a last name 
shown on every post? Is "therealdmcvegas" a valid identity? (I'm not 
picking on you but it was a handy example!) It's pretty darn 
impossible to actually check everyone's identity, if we have to ask 
for positive photo ID it's going to be a very quiet list. Should we 
ask for VIN numbers? 

I'm on other lists (not necessarily DMC), and many are "closed" i.e 
the moderator has to let you subscribe, and may require an off-line 
introductory post and an on-line one after approval as well. And a 
complete, full-name and state Sig Line. Do we want to be more 
restrictive? What would/won't that accomplish? Are we trying for a 
public list, a private club, or something in between?

I'm not trying to be difficult, just trying to get some thoughts on 
exactly how we'd go about this. There is a high percentage of the 
list members who chose not to routinely publish their last name, 
phone number, license plate number etc. It is a publicly visible list 
with 1500 subscribers +/-, I can certainly understand people wanting 
to maintain some privacy for whatever reason (although I chose not to 
worry much about it, and hence get phone calls and off-line emails). 
The downside of privacy is that in some cases it seems to breed some 
behavior that you would never see if you were face to face. 


Moderation is a funny thing - people seem to like it until THEY get 
moderated. Another twist on it is our multiple moderator format, we 
<<know>> that we are not consistent from week to week. There are two 
options to fix that - go to a single moderator, or go wide-open. 
We've elected to live with the inconsistency as an artifact of the 
list. Some people have voted to leave (or come here when it suits 
them and leave when it doesn't). Most people have told us they like 
the format the way it is, and some even state that at times we're not 
strict enough. 

I'm cautious about starting a "meta-discussion" but the timing seems 
right. I'm really interested in keeping this a "friendly" place and 
honestly in recent weeks some of that seems to have gone out the 
window. 

Dave S (last name in email ID!)


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_c...> 
wrote:
> 
> 
> I'll second that, Dick. In that past, I've been in support of 
allowing
> unsigned posts, because of possible negative reprocussions against 
the
> submitter, from the vendors.
> 
> However, since we have gotten firm commitments that the vendors will
> not discriminate against anyone simply because of unflattering
> comments, then I don't believe this to be a vaild argument any 
longer.
> 
> There is no longer any reason for anyone not to sign their VIN #
> and/or full name to any of the posts that are submitted to the DML. 
If
> you want your voice to publicly be heard, then it must accompany 
your
> public identity.
> 
> -Robert
> vin 6585 "X"

> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_y...> 
wrote:
> > 
> > 1.  All moderator comments should be signed with the
> > moderators name.
> > 
> > 2.  Any post that even appears to be from someone who
> > is trying hide his or her real identity should be
> > rejected.
> > 
> > 3.  No - repeat - no personal slams against another
> > list member - no matter how slight -  should be
> > allowed.  








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 13
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:48:48 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: Re: Want to buy a DMC



Yes, go to DMCH in Texas if you want a refurbished car. I've honestly
never heard of anyone who's bought a car from D-1, so I've no clue of
what the car was like. If you want a great car, with a very reliable
history, check with any of the vendors to see what cars they know of
that are for sale from any of their clients.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "waldwagen" <waldwagen_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> 
> 
> I'm looking to buy a refurbished DMC. Does anyone have any 
> experience or recommendations about buying one from Delorean One in 
> Californai or Delorean Motors in Texas?
> 
> Thank You








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 14
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:52:16 -0000
From: "cbl1739" <cbl302_at_dml_sbcglobal.net>
Subject: John Deloreans resting place




As the vast majority of us could not attend John's wake,can somebody 
post,how to get to John's final resting place,so that if anybody,is 
in the area,in the future,they can stop in and give their final 
respects at his gravesite.If possible if it could be put into the 
files sections on the DMC website for future reference.

Thanks
Claude








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 15
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:04:03 -0500
From: Patrick Conlon <PRC1216_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Detroit, US government, and DeLorean


How have you seen these "top secret memos"?  Where can the rest of us 
see them?

Patrick C.
1880


On Mar 24, 2005, at 8:33 AM, Bob Brandys wrote:

>
>
> And don't forget the 99 Secret state department memos between Regan and
> Thatcher about DeLorean motor company that were all blacked out so we
> will never know what the Conspirators were really up to.
>
> Gee,  why is a state department memo about DMC "Top Secret" ?  Was JZD
> making secret 100 mpg cars?
>
> It was secret because what Regan and Thatcher were doing was illegal.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see 
> www.dmcnews.com
>
> To search the archives or view files, log in at 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 16
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:59:10 -0000
From: "neogeoslug" <neogeoslug_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: John Deloreans resting place



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "cbl1739" <cbl302_at_dml_s...> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> As the vast majority of us could not attend John's wake,can somebody 
> post,how to get to John's final resting place,so that if anybody,is 
> in the area,in the future,they can stop in and give their final 
> respects at his gravesite.If possible if it could be put into the 
> files sections on the DMC website for future reference.
> 
> Thanks
> Claude

I second this.

Michael








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 17
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:05:25 EST
From: Packodenton_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Detroit, US government, DeLorean



Maggies favorite son Mark was recently arrested for the attempted coup de'tat 
in South Africa. Mark worked as a "consultant" for Lotus cars & their 
acquisition from GM in the 1980s.

Sir Dennis, her late husband, it has been reported was a major shareholder & 
board member of a certain car manufacturer.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 18
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:05:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Suggestions


Dave & other moderators

Since I opened this can of worms, let me at least tell
you what I had hoped to accomplish.

My email was prompted by two actions by Bruce Benson
(this weeks moderator and a personal friend of mine). 
One was the moderators comment.  I think all list
memebers should know which moderator is commenting. 
After all, some of those comments are sort of
paternally critical and, IMHO, authorship whould be
known.  

The other reason (and I have already personally
conveyed this to Bruce) was that I felt that Ryan's
accusation of VB being a scammer should never have
been posted.  The problem with posting opinions like
that, in addition to simply being in bad taste, is
that it causes the "I want the last word" syndrome to
take place.  While understandable, we don't need that
either.

Now to the hard part:  Identity verifcation.  I am
admittedly a computer neophyte.  I wouldn't even know
how to begin to track down "Fat Boy", "SonnyV" or
Endotex, et al.  Further, I have no desire to limit
the list to actual verifiable owners. But, I feel that
the  contributors with honest intentions to stick to
the subjects of the DML will not object to being
identified by a First & Last Name.  Or, if an owner, a
First Name and VIN #.

I may be way off base here and, if so, will probably
hear about it.  I'm just tired of highly opinionated
personal descriptions of one list member by another.  

Dick Ryan - a former moderator
VIN 16867

  



		
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________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 19
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:32:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Suggestions


The only problem I have with the way the list
currently runs is the rejection policy.

Too often, I send a post in and it never makes the
list nor do I receive a rejection notice.  Typically,
they are subjects that may be controversial but I feel
the message adheres to the established rules of the
list and is consistent with other messages that do
make it to the list.

"Nameless" posts don't bother me so much, but the
author should understand that the content will lack
credibility with no accountability.

--- Dave Swingle <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com> wrote:

> 
> Consider this a combined personal and [ADMIN] post..



		
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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 20
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:35:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: John Deloreans resting place


I believe he was cremated.

--- cbl1739 <cbl302_at_dml_sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As the vast majority of us could not attend John's
> wake,can somebody 
> post,how to get to John's final resting place,so
> that if anybody,is 



		
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Do you Yahoo!? 
Make Yahoo! your home page 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 21
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:19:28 -0800
From: "Gary Hull" <Specialty_at_dml_IN2TIME.com>
Subject: RE: Re-suggestions


I agree with the idea of putting a consistent identifier on DML emails - to
the point that people will know (in general) who the author is.

For instance, how many of you know what DMC Joe's "real" name is?  And who
really cares?

This thread got started (again) because Greg neglected to put his name at
the bottom of an email. He forgot to sign one a couple of weeks ago during a
back-and-forth PRV Performance discussion too. So what?

When I pull down DML messages with MS Outlook, the email address (endotex23
[endotex23_at_dml_yahoo.com] in this case) was clearly displayed.

Those of you who access the list via the web may not see the sender's email
address, but that doesn't mean it wasn't obvious to many of us.

At least he didn't create a bogus account in an attempt to hide who he
was...

Gary 
IN2TIME






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 22
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 14:05:08 -0800
From: "Gary Hull" <Specialty_at_dml_IN2TIME.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Suggestions


Sooo...

Should Marc's recent post about his posts being rejected have been rejected
because he didn't sign it, or did it just lack credibility?

Just kidding Marc!  I just couldn't let is slide :-)

Gary 
IN2TIME

> The only problem I have with the way the list
> currently runs is the rejection policy.

> Too often, I send a post in and it never makes the
> list nor do I receive a rejection notice.  Typically,
> they are subjects that may be controversial but I feel
> the message adheres to the established rules of the
> list and is consistent with other messages that do
> make it to the list.

> "Nameless" posts don't bother me so much, but the
> author should understand that the content will lack
> credibility with no accountability.







________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 23
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 14:07:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Re-suggestions


Actually, Endotex23 true identity is still unknown. 
The same person has used multiple names, and multiple
e-mail addresses.

There is no way to stop it, other than if you suspect
something "fishy" to try and do a little detective
work to track it down.  Unfortunately, it takes the
slightest bit of computer knowledge to cover your
tracks to the point where a court order would be
needed in order to complete a trace on the Internet...
Even then, it may not be so easy to do!

As long as the moderators are taking note of any
oddities (such as if someone with a different e-mail
address signed a message with my name), there is not
much else we can expect on this issue.  It is too much
to ask that everyone be verified.

Besides, it does add an entertainment factor to the
DML.

--- Gary Hull <Specialty_at_dml_IN2TIME.com> wrote:
<SNIP>
> When I pull down DML messages with MS Outlook, the
> email address (endotex23
> [endotex23_at_dml_yahoo.com] in this case) was clearly
> displayed.
<SNIP>
> At least he didn't create a bogus account in an
> attempt to hide who he
> was...
<SNIP>


		
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Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ 





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 24
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 22:14:12 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: Re: Concours- was Blue Book Value



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "spaceace3113" <spaceace3113_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> Whoa! Robert hold on a second.....I'm taking a little bit of offense
> here on this one....It took me six years of searching and saving for
> just the right car. I bought a sub 100 mile car, am I supposed to
> drive it?? Or am I supposed to feel fortunate that I was insane enough
> to actually buy it restore it and  protect it  from those who would
> drive it to the ground, neglect it, convert it into a time machine
> attrocity or reconfigure to how they would interperet its evolution??
> And mind you, I have no intention of entering concours... 
> 
>  Harry & Vin #2696

Fair enough point. I should haev written the beliefs behind this
statement, for better clarity. There is a difference between
preserving a car as a whole, and simply preserving the milage alone.

Having a car as original as your's, let me ask you a question here. I
understand it's got low milage, and hasn't seen much use. But what
condition is it in? Is it as mint as the day it was on the dealership
lot? Or has it suffered the neglect of an abandoned garage?

Back when Matt S. here in Vegas was looking for a car, we went to go
and look at one he saw in the paper. Owner said it wasn't driven since
like 1985 or so, and that it was ultra low milage, and great
condition. And in all this time, the owner had never driven it,
because he wanted to keep the milage down, and thus the car as
original as possible.

Long story short: Saging headliners, rotten fuel hoses, crumbling
coolant hoses (that leaked and burned my leg), an A/C system that no
longer worked, stiff-as-a-board leather seats, musty stench, old
gasoline, and a lake of ATF trans fluid under the car. When I asked
the guy why he had let the car fall into such a state of disrepair, he
was straight up pissed at me. He didn't do anything wrong to the car.
After all, look at the incredibly low milage on it! It was original!

Now, my car ain't no concourse competitor. In fact, I rarely wash it.
But I took him over to mine, and told him to look at the engine
compartment, and compare our cars. New hoses, fuel lines, freshly
stitched seats, crisp headliners. And he still didn't get it.

Some people think that keeping a car original at any cost, regardless
of the impact it has upon the vehicle, is more important. They believe
that neglecting a car by improperly storing it is better than keeping
their car as a daily driver and replacing wear parts is better,
because everything remains original. Little do they realize that a car
that was never driven, yet allowed to rot is worth far less than a
high milage car that may show some scars, but runs like clockwork.
Because guess what, you need to replace all that stuff that you let
break because of your inaction.

And that's what I mean, when I talk about people who hoard cars away,
simply to "keep them original". You're right, Harry. To say that
because you do not keep the car in active competition does not
validate your keeping it preserved, is wrong on my part. However,
getting back to the same question I first asked, What condition is it
in right now? And even if you may not actively trailer it to
competitions, do you proactively take measures to keep it original?
Keeping the leather supple, make sure nothing is leaking out, etc? Or
is it just rotting in a garage, with it's low milage being given a
higher priority than it's overall condition?

That's what I meant in my original post.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 25
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 14:17:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Shepherd <chrisau79_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Suggestions


FWIW I agree. 
 
Chris
6301

Dick Ryan <deloreanbiker_at_dml_yahoo.com> wrote:


Dave & other moderators

Since I opened this can of worms, let me at least tell
you what I had hoped to accomplish.

My email was prompted by two actions by Bruce Benson
(this weeks moderator and a personal friend of mine). 
One was the moderators comment. I think all list
memebers should know which moderator is commenting. 
After all, some of those comments are sort of
paternally critical and, IMHO, authorship whould be
known. 

The other reason (and I have already personally
conveyed this to Bruce) was that I felt that Ryan's
accusation of VB being a scammer should never have
been posted. The problem with posting opinions like
that, in addition to simply being in bad taste, is
that it causes the "I want the last word" syndrome to
take place. While understandable, we don't need that
either.

Now to the hard part: Identity verifcation. I am
admittedly a computer neophyte. I wouldn't even know
how to begin to track down "Fat Boy", "SonnyV" or
Endotex, et al. Further, I have no desire to limit
the list to actual verifiable owners. But, I feel that
the contributors with honest intentions to stick to
the subjects of the DML will not object to being
identified by a First & Last Name. Or, if an owner, a
First Name and VIN #.

I may be way off base here and, if so, will probably
hear about it. I'm just tired of highly opinionated
personal descriptions of one list member by another. 

Dick Ryan - a former moderator
VIN 16867






__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Make Yahoo! your home page 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs





To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
Yahoo! Groups Links








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