From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2567
Date: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 5:35 PM


There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Spring Stragand/Plakosh Tech Session - Western PA - Pittsburgh RSVP
From: Daniel Plakosh <dplakosh2_at_dml_yahoo.com>

2. Engine Options.
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

3. Spring E vent in New Jersey
From: rick abarca <stangboy70us_at_dml_yahoo.com>

4. Re: Cold Idle Problem
From: "Joseph Kuchan" <josephkuchan_at_dml_hotmail.com>

5. Re: Engine Options.
From: Thomas Mc Auley <dmc4087_at_dml_yahoo.co.uk>

6. factoid
From: "Warren Wallingford" <warren_at_dml_usadmc.com>

7. High Idle Issue
From: "Mike Polzin" <MPolzin_at_dml_sen.com>

8. Re: Cold Idle Problem - one more thing
From: "joekuchan" <josephkuchan_at_dml_hotmail.com>

9. Re: factoid
From: "Joseph Molino" <foxmul_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>

10. Re: High Idle Issue
From: "Matt Spittle" <supermatty_at_dml_psu.edu>

11. Re: door adjustments
From: Shannon Yocom <ssdelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>

12. Millennium Concours at DMCH open house filling up
From: "Grimsrud, Knut S" <knut.s.grimsrud_at_dml_intel.com>

13. Re: Spring E vent in New Jersey
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

14. Re: Engine Options.
From: "Tom" <tomciodmc_at_dml_poczta.onet.pl>

15. Re: Cold Idle Problem - one more thing (CIS)
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

16. Re: More on idle speeds
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

17. Re: Engine Options (North American Renault PRV's)
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

18. Blown Exhaust Pipe Gaskett off Right Manifold
From: "cambpd" <cambpd_at_dml_yahoo.com>

19. Re: factoid
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

20. Re: High Idle Issue
From: "joekuchan" <josephkuchan_at_dml_hotmail.com>

21. New inventory parts available...
From: Josh Haldeman <jhaldeman_at_dml_fuse.net>

22. Re: Re: factoid
From: "Warren Wallingford" <warren_at_dml_usadmc.com>

23. Re: factoid
From: "Rick" <rdevaux_at_dml_titan.com>

24. REDUCED DMC Entry Fee for Celebration FL Event April 30!
From: "jeff512tr" <cingular512_at_dml_comcast.net>

25. Frequency Valve not working.
From: delorean17_at_dml_aol.com





Message: 1
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 05:10:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Daniel Plakosh <dplakosh2_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Spring Stragand/Plakosh Tech Session - Western PA - Pittsburgh RSVP


All,

The spring Stragand/Plakosh Tech Session will be held in Pittsburgh on Saturday May 21, 2005 starting at 9:00 AM. This is an excellent to opportunity to socialize with other D owners and get any needed work done on your car.

We're easy to find just off the route 60 Hopewell exit about 7 min. from the Pittsburgh Airport. We have a 2 stall garage, loads of tools, a great techie (Dave of course), a large driveway, and use of the neighbors driveway as well. We hope to see all the great people we've met at the last tech sessions and hopefully a few new faces too! If your car is not ready to drive then just come and visit, we'd love to see you! We even have some room for anyone that wants to travel a bit and might want to spend the night.

We'll start off at 9a.m. (Coffee and pastries to open your eyes :-). Snacks along with beverages (including beer) during the day. Around 1:00 PM we'll have a cookout for lunch and a dinner cookout around 5:30 PM. Also, there will also be  T-shirts (or something like that) for D owners.  Please e-mail me off-list to confirm your attendance, and perhaps any work you'd like some help with, and let me know if you need directions. Significant others are welcome, and encouraged.. 
 
Ladies, since we had such a nice turn out last August, I thought I'd add a craft with a Delorean theme for those of you who would like to, we will have all the supplies to make the Delorean tote bag I showed to some of you last year.  It will be fun, just let us know when you RSVP if you will be crafting.  Of course if you want to puzzle or just relax, that's here too!
 
Hope to see you there!

Best regards,

Dave, Juley, Dan and Judy
(Vin 5927)   (Vin 3872) 




		
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 05:37:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Engine Options.


WOW!!  I was considering that engine too..  Kennedy
has a kit to bolt it up to a Porsche.

You can also find a VQ40 in the 2005 Xtera.  More HP
and Torque, looks like they took a VQ35 and increased
the stroke.

The only advantage the Nissan has over the Chrysler is
that it has been used with STD transmission which
*SHOULD* make it possible to use the stock ECU to run
the engine...  Eliminating the need to buy an
expensive after market ECU.

If the Nissan engine had the performance numbers in
2000 that they have now, I probably would have used
this engine to begin with.  The lateral configuration
in the 350Z/G35/Xtera is also new..  In the Maxima, it
has always been transverse.

The other lesson learned in the past 4 years is that
it is probably better to spend the money on the
Porsche trans, instead of trying to re-used the
Renault (DMC) trans.  The conversion kits for the
Porsche are tested and known to work.  One less
variable.

--- Rusty Shackleford <squall67584_at_dml_yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> I am currently doing research into using the VQ35DE
> V6 that currently comes in the Nissan 350Z, the
> Infiniti G35, and several other cars in their line
> up.  In my opinion, it has the best stock
> performance numbers so far, being 285 hp or so, and
> the after market community is quickly coming out
> with parts, mainly turbo kits at this time.  This
> engine mounted to a Porsche transaxle with LSD
> should make for a good performance addition to the
> DeLorean.
> 


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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 07:03:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: rick abarca <stangboy70us_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Spring E vent in New Jersey


Is anyone driving through Albany, NY to go to the
Delorean Mid-Atlantic Club Spring Event this weekend. 
I would like to take my D and caravan with a few other
folks.  Please contact me off list.  Thanks.

Rick
17160


		
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:50:04 -0500
From: "Joseph Kuchan" <josephkuchan_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Cold Idle Problem


For the benefit of the list, I respectfully disagree.

The vacuum that an engine produces is a
result of  how much air it pumps (referred to in some contexts as its  
"volumetric efficiency") AND the restriction to that air flow posed by 
anything upstream
from the intake, most notably the throttle plates at or near idle. That's
why vacuum decreases as the throttles open. Look at a vacuum/boost gauge at
or near WOT and you'll see this. Actually, as soon as the throttles open the
vacuum drops almost instantaneously. Thus, vacuum at idle depends a great
deal on having those throttle plates closed.

Another example: A jet engine flows LOTS of air. Is their a huge vacuum in
the engine? I'm not a jet engine expert, but unless there is some
significant restriction to the flow of that air, then the answer would be
no. Now, slap a piece of plywood over that engine's intake. What will
happen? The vacuum will instantly rise to the point where the plywood and/or
the engine will implode.

A final example: Draw air in through a straw. Draw a LOT of air. Is there
much vacuum in that straw or in your mouth? Probably not. Now, while drawing 
in the same
amount of air (you're now the "engine" with a fixed volumetric efficiency) 
place
your finger over the end of the straw.
Now that you've closed the "throttle" - just like magic - you have a lot of 
vacuum  in your mouth and the straw!

It takes air flow AND restriction to create that vacuum. It isn't "magic" at 
all. It's a phenomenon
known as Bernoulli's Principle. It's what makes venturis in carburetors 
work.

Diesel's don't have those upstream throttles, and guess what? They don't 
make vacuum. That's why they have vacuum pumps to run accessories. Unlike 
gasoline engines with their closed throttles diesels will run away from you 
on a downgrade if you let off the accelerator. Why? Becuase with no throttle 
plates to close there is no limit on the amount of air that gets sucked 
through the motor. In a gas engine the closed throttle restriction (which is 
VERY significant) creates vacuum (drag) that slows everything down.

-Joe Kuchan

>The engine produces the same amount of vacuum whether it's idling off
>cracked throttle plates, opened manifold screws, or CIS. All three
>accomplish the same thing.
>
>One thing cracked throttle plates will do that neither CIS nor the
>manifold screws will is open ported vacuum. On a stock DeLo setup that
>only affects charcoal canister purge.
>
>Bill Robertson
>#5939
>
> >--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Kuchan" <josephkuchan_at_dml_h...>
>wrote:
> >
> > You should start by readjusting the throttle to the proper position.
>You
> > will never fix it if you make "masking" adjustments, although I know
>you did
> > that just to get by with the intention of fixing it properly at this
>time.
> > By turning the throttle adjusting screw you almost certainly reduced
>the
> > amount of vacuum the engine produces. That can affect your braking,
>among
> > other things, so start by getting that set properly.
> >
> > Next have a look at the idle speed motor and its controls.







________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 5
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 15:11:51 +0100 (BST)
From: Thomas Mc Auley <dmc4087_at_dml_yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Engine Options.


The power output isnt that bad. When would you ever use the cars full potential anyway? Would you be racing the car? If you want performance, maybe the De Lorean isnt for you. Would it not be cheaper for you to start out with a Lotus Esprit? They look similar to a De Lorean, and they have the power you want.
 
I do agree with you on the price of the DMCH engine, but I suppose you could end up spending that much on an engine if you had all that work done. At least it should be very reliable!
 
Thomas
Vin 4087
Happy with the performance

 
 
Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com> wrote:


If you have a practical and reasonably priced way to
get some decent power out of it, I'd love to hear
about it.

I said it probably 10 years ago on this list, The PRV
engine is common in Europe I am surprised some of the
hot-rod stuff has not made it to this side of the pond
(at a reasonable cost). How is it that Venturi got
450HP out of this engine? Or even the 250 that Alpine
got?

With the line of cars waiting to spend $6000+ on the
DMCH engine for (what I believe to be) a minimal
improvement in power, It is amazing to me that there
are not more vendors offering competitive engine
upgrades.



--- Thomas Mc Auley wrote:
> 
> 
> Go with the PRV, and make it a De Lorean again!
> (just my opinion)
> 
> Thomas
> Vin 4087
> Belfast




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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 09:26:55 -0500
From: "Warren Wallingford" <warren_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: factoid


The static compression ratio of the stock Delorean engine is 8.8:1. 

This from Page 38 of the Owner's Manual, reprints of which we have for $15.00.

Warren Wallingford
DeLorean Motor Company (Texas)
15023 Eddie Drive
Humble, Texas 77396 USA

http://www.delorean.com
800/USA-DMC1
281/441-2537
281/441-2813 Fax

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 09:39:49 -0500
From: "Mike Polzin" <MPolzin_at_dml_sen.com>
Subject: High Idle Issue


Greetings everyone,

It spring so I am back to working on my cars again. I have an '81 5-speed that has a high idle condition. Last fall I suspected that the idle speed motor on the car was faulty because when I banged on it a bit the idle on the car would go down for a little bit. The car was in generally idling around 2000+ RPM's when warm, and sometimes upwards of 2500 RPM's if I was driving around for a bit.

Well I replaced the idle speed motor (thanks Toby!) and the car is still idling high, however it now seems to max out around 1700 RPM's warm, so there is an improvement and I think the idle speed motor was part of the problem. I backed of the idle screw on the throttle but I can't go any further down at this point, so it isn't an adjustment.

What I noticed was that when I pushed in the clutch I could hear a slight "woosh" sound and the motor would idle down to about 1500 RPM's by simply doing this. I did not put the car into gear.

Also when I turned on the heating/cooling fans inside the car the car would idle up about 100 RPM's. 

I pulled off the hose that goes from the oil fill to the air filter, which made no different in the idle, however when I blocked the hole on the oil fill cover the idle dropped by about 200 RPM's.  

All of this leads me to think I have a vaccuum leak somewhere causing the high idle. I have looked for it by spraying some carb fluid around some of the common leaks around the intake, but couldn't find a leak there. I know there are other places to look, can anyone advise? Or is there anyone in the Wisconsin or northern Illinois area that would be willing to assist me in locating this? Thanks much!

Mike Polzin






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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 8
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:32:59 -0000
From: "joekuchan" <josephkuchan_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Cold Idle Problem - one more thing



On a careful re-read of Bill's posting I think what he's saying is 
that as long as the total restriction presented by the throttles, 
idle speed motor, opened manifold screws, or what have you, is held 
constant, then for a given air flow vacuum will be the same. In other 
words, if the throttles are cracked open slightly AND the idle speed 
motor is able to compensate by closing a bit, then the vacuum will 
stay the same. This is true within the limits of the idle speed 
system. 

What I wanted to be clear about was that vacuum is the result of two 
things: air flow and a restriction. The restriction is required for 
the vacuum to be present.

I neither wrote nor discovered the laws of physics, but that is just 
how it is. That is why dashpots work, why carburetors work, why 
turbos in suck-through designs are more prone to drawing oil through 
the compressor seal when the air filter gets dirty, why free-flow 
exhausts are "good", etc.

If what Bill is saying is that it doesn't matter what the restriction 
is caused by, for an equal restriction at a given air flow the vacuum 
will be the same, then I agree. I just wanted to be clear on how that 
vacuum gets produced!

-Joe Kuchan

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_c...> 
wrote:
> 
> 
> The engine produces the same amount of vacuum whether it's idling 
off
> cracked throttle plates, opened manifold screws, or CIS. All three
> accomplish the same thing.
> 
> One thing cracked throttle plates will do that neither CIS nor the
> manifold screws will is open ported vacuum. On a stock DeLo setup 
that
> only affects charcoal canister purge.
> 
> Bill Robertson
> #5939
> 
> >--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Kuchan" <josephkuchan_at_dml_h...>
> wrote:
> > 
> > You should start by readjusting the throttle to the proper 
position.
> You 
> > will never fix it if you make "masking" adjustments, although I 
know
> you did 
> > that just to get by with the intention of fixing it properly at 
this
> time. 
> > By turning the throttle adjusting screw you almost certainly 
reduced
> the 
> > amount of vacuum the engine produces. That can affect your 
braking,
> among 
> > other things, so start by getting that set properly.
> > 
> > Next have a look at the idle speed motor and its controls.
> >








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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 9
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 11:02:21 -0400
From: "Joseph Molino" <foxmul_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: factoid


Warren,

I just read on the Delorean Midlantic website that you guys donated parts to 
raffle off at our spring social this weekend.  What a nice gesture.  Thanks 
for still being there while not actually being there.

Joseph Molino vin 2850
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Warren Wallingford" <warren_at_dml_usadmc.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 10:26 AM
Subject: [DML] factoid


>
>
> The static compression ratio of the stock Delorean engine is 8.8:1.
>
> This from Page 38 of the Owner's Manual, reprints of which we have for 
> $15.00.
>
> Warren Wallingford
> DeLorean Motor Company (Texas)
> 15023 Eddie Drive
> Humble, Texas 77396 USA
>
> http://www.delorean.com
> 800/USA-DMC1
> 281/441-2537
> 281/441-2813 Fax
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see 
> www.dmcnews.com
>
> To search the archives or view files, log in at 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 







________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 10
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 15:04:15 -0000
From: "Matt Spittle" <supermatty_at_dml_psu.edu>
Subject: Re: High Idle Issue



Have you replaced all of your vacuum hoses with silicone ones?  That'd
be a great first step.  You can't tell a vacuum hose has a crack by
just looking at it, you have to actually flex the hose and look at it
from all sides.  It's easier to just replace them.  

This picture is a great comprehensive list of everything to check:

http://www.specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/images/o-ring-assort.jpg

Matt
#1604

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Mike Polzin" <MPolzin_at_dml_s...> wrote:
> 
> Greetings everyone,
> 
> It spring so I am back to working on my cars again. I have an '81
5-speed that has a high idle condition. Last fall I suspected that the
idle speed motor on the car was faulty because when I banged on it a
bit the idle on the car would go down for a little bit. The car was in
generally idling around 2000+ RPM's when warm, and sometimes upwards
of 2500 RPM's if I was driving around for a bit.
> 
> Well I replaced the idle speed motor (thanks Toby!) and the car is
still idling high, however it now seems to max out around 1700 RPM's
warm, so there is an improvement and I think the idle speed motor was
part of the problem. I backed of the idle screw on the throttle but I
can't go any further down at this point, so it isn't an adjustment.
> 
> What I noticed was that when I pushed in the clutch I could hear a
slight "woosh" sound and the motor would idle down to about 1500 RPM's
by simply doing this. I did not put the car into gear.
> 
> Also when I turned on the heating/cooling fans inside the car the
car would idle up about 100 RPM's. 
> 
> I pulled off the hose that goes from the oil fill to the air filter,
which made no different in the idle, however when I blocked the hole
on the oil fill cover the idle dropped by about 200 RPM's.  
> 
> All of this leads me to think I have a vaccuum leak somewhere
causing the high idle. I have looked for it by spraying some carb
fluid around some of the common leaks around the intake, but couldn't
find a leak there. I know there are other places to look, can anyone
advise? Or is there anyone in the Wisconsin or northern Illinois area
that would be willing to assist me in locating this? Thanks much!
> 
> Mike Polzin








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 11
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:10:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shannon Yocom <ssdelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: door adjustments


How about one of the Western PA Tech Sessions (Aliquippa, PA) in May or Aug? 
http://www.ohiodeloreans.com/events.htm
It's a 3 hr ride for me probably 5 for you. We can do it there for you if you
show up!

Shannon Y
16506

----------------

Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 23:24:26 EDT
   From: AdamRayVaughn_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: door adjustments


Does anyone know of a good place around Bucks  County, PA that can do door 
adjustments for the delorean?  Or does any  Delorean owner living around this 
area know how to adjust the doors?  If so  please email me off list.  I know 
about the spring social but I may not be  able to make it there.  I'm guessing 
that there has to be some  convenient way I can get my doors adjusted other than 
making it to this  once a year event!  Thank you in advance.
 
 
 
     Adam
     3369


		
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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:54:51 -0700
From: "Grimsrud, Knut S" <knut.s.grimsrud_at_dml_intel.com>
Subject: Millennium Concours at DMCH open house filling up


We have been getting tremendous support and interest in the Millennium
Concours at the DMC (Texas) open house in June, and thus far 5
competitors have been committed for the event. Because of the resources
and time involved in the judging process, only a limited number of
competitors can be efficiently accommodated for the event. In order to
provide the best service to the competitors and afford judges the
opportunity to provide the highest quality for their inspections, we
expect to cap participation to 6 competitors this time around. This
leaves just a single remaining opening for the upcoming event. If you
are anticipating competing in the event, but are procrastinating in
getting registered for it, I encourage you to secure you position in the
event before the final opening is taken.

My thanks to P.J. Grady, DeLorean Motor Center, and DeLorean Motor
Company (Texas) for their sponsorship and support of the Millennium
Concours event. The upcoming Millennium event at the DMCH open house is
gearing up to be an impressive showing of some fine DeLoreans, and we
hope those attending (and competing at) the open house will enjoy all
the cars that will be participating in the concours.

        Knut

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 15:40:11 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Spring E vent in New Jersey



I will be at the 1st rest stop on the Garden State Parkway near exit
172 towards the north terminus of the GSP at 8:00 am Saturday morning
and so far have 4 Deloreans lined up to meet there. We will proceed
south to RT 80 west and on to Hackettstown planning to arrive around
9:30. We will monitor family band channel 12 and for anyone wanting to
call use 201-803-3293. This is a good route for anyone coming from the
north or the Tappan Zee Bridge. Anyone coming from the east like the
George Washington Bridge figure on joining up on RT 80 around 8:30 by
the GSP. Unfortunatly there is no good place to stop and meet on RT
80. For those coming from Albany stay on the Thruway south to the
Garden State Parkway exit (I think it is #14?). It is slightly longer
than going right onto RT 287 though. RT 287 will place you alot
further west on RT 80 so it will save you some time (around 30 min).
Call if you are in the area and you have any problems though.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, rick abarca <stangboy70us_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> 
> Is anyone driving through Albany, NY to go to the
> Delorean Mid-Atlantic Club Spring Event this weekend. 
> I would like to take my D and caravan with a few other
> folks.  Please contact me off list.  Thanks.
> 
> Rick
> 17160
> 
> 
> 		
> __________________________________ 
> Do you Yahoo!? 
> Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
> http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 14
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:10:17 +0200
From: "Tom" <tomciodmc_at_dml_poczta.onet.pl>
Subject: Re: Engine Options.


Hi

Speaking on related subject. Can anyone help me out with making the PRV run 
on 120 octane fuel?
Little explanation - I want to convert my DeLorean to run on natural gas 
which is rated at 120 octane. Why on earth do I want to do that you might 
ask? Simple answer... you guys in the US are complaining about gas prices... 
well... regular unleaded over here sells for $4.85 per US gallon (price and 
exchange rate current as of today). CNG is much much cheaper.

Tom Niemczewski
jamesik_at_dml_vp.pl
VIN 6149 (in Poland!)
Save the dream so you can live the dream...




----- Original Message ----- 
> content22207 wrote:
>
>>Don't forget Euro compression is 9.5:1.
>>
> Really? I have a list of CR's in my Renault manual showing variations of
>
> 7.6   8.0   8.6    8.8    9.2    9.5    9.6 - all set by the dome in the
> piston crown






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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 15
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:09:34 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Cold Idle Problem - one more thing (CIS)



I think CIS is rather misunderstood in the DeLo community. It serves
the same function and has exactly the same effect as cracking open the
throttle plates (except of course the ported vacuum barb remains
closed). That's all it does. CIS does have the advantage of *VARIABLY*
cracking the throttle plates, which is how idle speed remains constant.

Compare CIS to a carburetor. Cold, carb has a cam that pushes the
throttle plates further open (manifold vacuum actually increases, thus
fuel mixture enriches, because of the choke plate. K Jetronic
accomplishes the same thing via the CPR). Cam has multiple step downs
that incrementally allow the throttle plates to close to their warm
setting, cracked a certain distance by a set screw. Common practice is
to use a solenoid to push the throttle plates further open again when
accessories such as A/C are energized. 

For some reason many DeLo owners think that CIS is mandatory. Nonsense
-- CIS wasn't even introduced until 1981. K Jetronic PRV's had been in
production at least 5 years prior, idling off the brass manifold
screws (with a device called the "auxiliary air valve" to serve the
same function as cracking the throttle plates further open on a cold
engine). CIS is nice -- when properly functioning -- but hardly mandatory.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "joekuchan" <josephkuchan_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> 
> 
> On a careful re-read of Bill's posting I think what he's saying is 
> that as long as the total restriction presented by the throttles, 
> idle speed motor, opened manifold screws, or what have you, is held 
> constant, then for a given air flow vacuum will be the same. In other 
> words, if the throttles are cracked open slightly AND the idle speed 
> motor is able to compensate by closing a bit, then the vacuum will 
> stay the same. This is true within the limits of the idle speed 
> system. 
> 
> What I wanted to be clear about was that vacuum is the result of two 
> things: air flow and a restriction. The restriction is required for 
> the vacuum to be present.
> 
> I neither wrote nor discovered the laws of physics, but that is just 
> how it is. That is why dashpots work, why carburetors work, why 
> turbos in suck-through designs are more prone to drawing oil through 
> the compressor seal when the air filter gets dirty, why free-flow 
> exhausts are "good", etc.
> 
> If what Bill is saying is that it doesn't matter what the restriction 
> is caused by, for an equal restriction at a given air flow the vacuum 
> will be the same, then I agree. I just wanted to be clear on how that 
> vacuum gets produced!
> 
> -Joe Kuchan
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_c...> 
> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > The engine produces the same amount of vacuum whether it's idling 
> off
> > cracked throttle plates, opened manifold screws, or CIS. All three
> > accomplish the same thing.
> > 
> > One thing cracked throttle plates will do that neither CIS nor the
> > manifold screws will is open ported vacuum. On a stock DeLo setup 
> that
> > only affects charcoal canister purge.
> > 
> > Bill Robertson
> > #5939
> > 
> > >--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Kuchan" <josephkuchan_at_dml_h...>
> > wrote:
> > > 
> > > You should start by readjusting the throttle to the proper 
> position.
> > You 
> > > will never fix it if you make "masking" adjustments, although I 
> know
> > you did 
> > > that just to get by with the intention of fixing it properly at 
> this
> > time. 
> > > By turning the throttle adjusting screw you almost certainly 
> reduced
> > the 
> > > amount of vacuum the engine produces. That can affect your 
> braking,
> > among 
> > > other things, so start by getting that set properly.
> > > 
> > > Next have a look at the idle speed motor and its controls.
> > >








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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:44:16 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: More on idle speeds



I think Dani may be familiar with larger displacement engines, which
do indeed idle around 500-600 RPM. A little engine like the PRV really
struggles that low. But since displacement is so much smaller, you
probably come out ahead in fuel consumption while idling.

Note that DMC lowered B28F idle spec from 950 RPM (I remembered it
incorrectly as 900 in my last post) to 750 RPM. I'm assuming they did
that for emissions -- no smog pump or EGR, standard on B28F.

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Matt Spittle" <supermatty_at_dml_p...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Who wouldn't want their car to idle at 500 RPMS with gas prices
lately? :)
> 
> Matt
> #1604
> 
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, doctorDHD_at_dml_a... wrote:
> > 
> >  
> >  
> > Am I missing something?  Why do you want your engine to idle below
> 700  - 
> > 800?  I thought 775 was the spec. On a properly operating engine,
> the  idle speed 
> > is controlled by the Idle Speed Motor and its ECU not by any  screw.
>  Correct?
> >  
> > Dē & 6530
> > 
> > Message:  15        
> > Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 01:24:10  -0000
> > From: "stainlessilusion" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>
> > Subject:  More on idle speeds
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I'm hearing of people having too low of an  idle-while I can't get
mine
> > anything under 7-8 hundred. How low can a  factory new engine idle? I
> > have a new butterfly assembly, the whole thing  not just the shaft and
> > flies, Put in O-rings and checked every single vac  line...With the
> > adjustment screw missing I still get 7-8. Any ideas?  -----Dani B.
#5003
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:31:51 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Engine Options (North American Renault PRV's)



I don't think Renault PRV's made it over here until after Chrysler
purchased AMC (Renault majority ownership). Alliances and the like
were all 4 cylinder. AMC Eagles and Jeeps used AMC's inline 6 (which
Chrysler continued to use until 2004). First North American Renault
PRV's should be 1988 Chrysler Eagles, which essentially makes them B280's.

I should have stated that Euro spec *VOLVO's* are 9.5:1.

Am guessing Renault's 7.6:1 compression ratio is for some super or
turbo charged application.

And you are correct that piston height determines PRV compression
ratio, unlike traditional North American practice of head shape and
height (connecting rods notwithstanding). That was an education for me.

Euro spec PRV's were calibrated richer long before Lambda (1979). My
Volvo literature shows 1976 E Series (first year for the familiar
manifold & fuel/air unit) at 2% CO, versus 1% F Series (except
California, which is .7%).

BTW: Have I ever mentioned that the sky is blue...

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Martin Gutkowski <martin_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> 
> content22207 wrote:
> 
> >Don't forget Euro compression is 9.5:1. 
> >
> Really? I have a list of CR's in my Renault manual showing variations of
> 
> 7.6   8.0   8.6    8.8    9.2    9.5    9.6 - all set by the dome in
the 
> piston crown
> 
> I'll leave you to work our which engine has a CR of 7.6
> 
> >Euro fuel mixture is also 2% CO (twice as rich as US, but compression
> >is higher).
> >  
> >
> Renault do/did sell in the Swiss market with closed loop lambda
control. 
> I expect the US versions were based on this experience
> 
> Martin








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Message: 18
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:38:28 -0000
From: "cambpd" <cambpd_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Blown Exhaust Pipe Gaskett off Right Manifold



Does anyone have experience replacing the exhaust crossover pipe
gasket off the right exhaust manifold?  I tried soaking in penetrating
oil, heating, and finally tried drilling out the studs connecting the
exhaust pipe to the manifold but nothing has worked.  I can't get my
drill level enough to drill straight and have succeeded in only
reaming out the hole in the manifold side!  

If I have to remove the exhaust manifold, are there any precautions
that need to be heeded?  Also being that the stud nuts connecting the
exhaust manifold to the engine block have been rusting for 24 years
what are the odds that I am going to break off the stud at the engine
block?  Are there lesson learned tricks that I might apply in removing
the exhaust manifold.

Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Mike
VIN#5781








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Message: 19
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:42:52 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: factoid



8.5:1 is B28F spec. DMC may indeed have used slightly different
pistons, especially in light of Martin's Renault research. Have you
compression tested a crate engine from the factory? Volvo calls for
156 PSI on the B28F. My crate Peugeot block was 160 PSI, so perhaps
they used different pistons as well (at least in that application).

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Warren Wallingford" <warren_at_dml_u...> wrote:
> 
> The static compression ratio of the stock Delorean engine is 8.8:1. 
> 
> This from Page 38 of the Owner's Manual, reprints of which we have
for $15.00.
> 
> Warren Wallingford
> DeLorean Motor Company (Texas)
> 15023 Eddie Drive
> Humble, Texas 77396 USA
> 
> http://www.delorean.com
> 800/USA-DMC1
> 281/441-2537
> 281/441-2813 Fax
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








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Message: 20
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 20:29:57 -0000
From: "joekuchan" <josephkuchan_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: High Idle Issue



Mike,

Vacuum gauges are cheap and getting one will allow you to understand 
your issue better. As you play with things you'll be able to see the 
effect. That way you don't have to guess about whether or not something 
you try improves vacuum.

-Joe Kuchan


> > All of this leads me to think I have a vaccuum leak somewhere
> causing the high idle. I have looked for it by spraying some carb
> fluid around some of the common leaks around the intake, but couldn't
> find a leak there. I know there are other places to look, can anyone
> advise? Or is there anyone in the Wisconsin or northern Illinois area
> that would be willing to assist me in locating this? Thanks much!
> > 
> > Mike Polzin








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Message: 21
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:37:27 -0400
From: Josh Haldeman <jhaldeman_at_dml_fuse.net>
Subject: New inventory parts available...


Hey Guys,

Just got a handfull of new parts in that I wanted to make available to 
the list before I go to ebay with them.  If anyone needs any of the 
following, please contact me off list at jhaldeman(AT)fuse.net, and I 
will provide pricing information.  Pictures can also be provided for any 
of these upon request.

Thanks for your time,
Josh

- (1) Right Torsion bar 100932, excellent working condition
- (2) Rear left tail light lens 108359, excellent, not faded or cracked 
condition
- (1) window mtr and track 110073, excellent working condition
- (1) Idle speed ECU 106896, excellent working condition
- (1) Grey Dashboard (recovered) 110440, perfect match for original 
color, excellent condition.
- (1) RH front quarter panel (100208), excellent condition, includes 
side moldings, no antenna hole (rare!)

These parts will be available on a first come, first served basis.








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Message: 22
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:07:13 -0500
From: "Warren Wallingford" <warren_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: Re: Re: factoid


I can't recall testing a new one.  Bill says that 145 psi a good number on
an engine that has been broken in.  It is more important that the readings
be nearly the same than what the actual measurement is.
Warren at DMC


 ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 2:42 PM
Subject: [DML] Re: factoid


>
>
>
> 8.5:1 is B28F spec. DMC may indeed have used slightly different
> pistons, especially in light of Martin's Renault research. Have you
> compression tested a crate engine from the factory? Volvo calls for
> 156 PSI on the B28F. My crate Peugeot block was 160 PSI, so perhaps
> they used different pistons as well (at least in that application).
>
> Bill Robertson
> #5939
>
> >--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Warren Wallingford" <warren_at_dml_u...> wrote:
> >
> > The static compression ratio of the stock Delorean engine is 8.8:1.
> >
> > This from Page 38 of the Owner's Manual, reprints of which we have
> for $15.00.
> >
> > Warren Wallingford
> > DeLorean Motor Company (Texas)
> > 15023 Eddie Drive
> > Humble, Texas 77396 USA
> >
> > http://www.delorean.com
> > 800/USA-DMC1
> > 281/441-2537
> > 281/441-2813 Fax
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see
www.dmcnews.com
>
> To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>






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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 23
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:15:16 -0000
From: "Rick" <rdevaux_at_dml_titan.com>
Subject: Re: factoid



Bill, What cams are available that would improve the performance of 
the B28F?  Looking for a source for non-turbo improvement.  Does 
anyone know the lift and duration of the DMCH cams and a good cam 
grinder?

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_c...> 
wrote:
> 
> 
> 8.5:1 is B28F spec. DMC may indeed have used slightly different
> pistons, especially in light of Martin's Renault research. Have you
> compression tested a crate engine from the factory? Volvo calls for
> 156 PSI on the B28F. My crate Peugeot block was 160 PSI, so perhaps
> they used different pistons as well (at least in that application).
> 
> Bill Robertson
> #5939
> 
> >--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Warren Wallingford" <warren_at_dml_u...> 
wrote:
> > 
> > The static compression ratio of the stock Delorean engine is 
8.8:1. 
> > 
> > This from Page 38 of the Owner's Manual, reprints of which we have
> for $15.00.
> > 
> > Warren Wallingford
> > DeLorean Motor Company (Texas)
> > 15023 Eddie Drive
> > Humble, Texas 77396 USA
> > 
> > http://www.delorean.com
> > 800/USA-DMC1
> > 281/441-2537
> > 281/441-2813 Fax
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








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Message: 24
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:17:11 -0000
From: "jeff512tr" <cingular512_at_dml_comcast.net>
Subject: REDUCED DMC Entry Fee for Celebration FL Event April 30!



To honor John Z. DeLorean, Rob Grady, DMC-Florida and DMC-Houston
will jointly be contributing $30 towards the registration fee for
every Delorean at the upcoming Exotic Car Festival at Celebration,
Florida on April 30!

This means the net registration fee for all DeLoreans will now only be
$20! (Those of you that have already registered will also only be
charged $20.) 100% of the registration fees, and all net proceeds of
the event, are donated to Make-A-Wish.

This contribution by Rob, Tony, Steve, James and Warren is being made
in order to encourage all DeLorean owners in the SE (or anywhere 
else!) to bring out their cars for this event in honor of JZD. It is 
our goal to have at least 30 DeLoreans at the show on Saturday, April 
30. There will be classes for stock and modified DeLoreans, and 
multiple Awards given. You can choose to be judged or be display-only.

Celebration is the Disney built town, located on the SW corner of
Walt Disney World, right off I4. It is a gorgeous place for a
concours, right along the waterfront boardwalk.

The show registration fee is now only $20, so bring out your cars!
All other events that weekend, the dinner, rally, etc are optional.
Please e-mail me at cingular512_at_dml_... or download the
registration form at
www.celebrationexoticcars.com

Thank you and see you at the show!
Jeff Ippoliti
#20022









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Message: 25
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:27:57 EDT
From: delorean17_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Frequency Valve not working.


Hello,
    I posted here a few days ago about my  car backfiring through the intake 
before it is heated up.  The engine ran  fine when heated up but did not have 
the power it used to.
    Today when messing around with it I  noticed the frequency valve was not 
buzzing like it normally does.  I  checked the connection and it was fine.  I 
depressed the full throttle  microswitch and it still did not come on.  How 
can I test this  component.  Is there a relay I can jump? 
 
Any help would be appreciated.
 
Thanks
 
Dave
6286


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


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