From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2570
Date: Thursday, April 14, 2005 8:23 PM


There are 12 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: idle problems
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

2. Re: Interior colors
From: "Jake Kamphoefner" <jakekamp_at_dml_sbcglobal.net>

3. Re: Re: Engine Options - fuel options
From: Bob Brandys <BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com>

4. Re: idle problems
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

5. re:Idle Problems
From: "Warren Wallingford" <warren_at_dml_usadmc.com>

6. Re: Delorean Mid-Atlantic Spring Social - Itinerary and Directions Available
From: Kevin Abato <delorean_at_dml_abato.net>

7. Re: DMC Delorean Headlight Covers Update Clear pictures
From: "silverdelorean2002" <jon_at_dml_jonbrodi.com>

8. DPNW Door Actuator Upgrade Wiring
From: "Alistair McCann" <pilot25dmc_at_dml_o2.co.uk>

9. RE: So let's quiet this baby down...
From: "Dave Sontos" <dsontos_at_dml_verizon.net>

10. RE: Re: idle problems
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

11. Re: So let's quiet this baby down...
From: Patrick Conlon <PRC1216_at_dml_aol.com>

12. Re: idle problems
From: Martin Gutkowski <martin_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>





Message: 1
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:25:02 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: idle problems



I am intrigued by your reference to a "tuning hammer". Exactly what is
it, it's size, where you can get it, etc. I am not familiar with that
tool.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Warren Wallingford" <warren_at_dml_u...> wrote:
> 
> The flurry of talk lately about idle control problems, especially
unwanted high idle, mirrors calls we get for help from people working
on their cars.  The following is a functional approach to isolating
problems that result in a high idle.
> 
> Idle speed in a Delorean is electronically controlled.  When 








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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 13:43:01 -0500
From: "Jake Kamphoefner" <jakekamp_at_dml_sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Interior colors



Steve,

You're carpet is correct.  I've often heard the dark-grey carpet referred to 
as "black" just because it is in the black interior car.  It really only 
looks black if you compare it to the much lighter grey carpet in the grey 
cars.  --Now the '83s are a different story, but if you have a black 
interior, you should have dark-grey carpet.  No production cars ever came 
with a truly "black" carpet.

Jake Kamphoefner
Your brother VIN, 1063


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "S E Ableman" <s.ableman_at_dml_worldnet.att.net>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 7:49 AM
Subject: [DML] Interior colors


>
>
>    If I am reading the parts book correctly, the interior colors should
> be black carpet for cars with black seats and dash and grey carpet for
> gray seats and dash.
>    I am the third owner of vin 1089, it has black seats and dash and
> grey carpet. Every piece of carpet is grey, even the carpet on the
> doors. I have reason to believe it is all orignal. Now that I am in need
> for new carpet is the reason for this post. Which color is correct, what
> would you do? Are there others out there that have this mix up?
>
> Steve
>
> 





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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 12:41:55 -0500
From: Bob Brandys <BobB_at_dml_safety-epa.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Engine Options - fuel options


Tom,

Why do you think that the higher octane of CNG will cause you to loose 
power.  My understanding of octane rating is that it slow down the 
burning process.   This is more important in high compression engines, 
because the higher compression make the mixture burn faster.    In a 
low compression engine this should not make any difference.

Higher octane will allow you to advance the timing so that you may 
actually be able to increase your peak pressure.

I am also curious as to why you say it will be hard to start?   Methane 
has a very low vaporization temperature. It should turn to vapor even 
in the coldest weather.

CNG conversion/ dual fuel systems were available on Ford and other SUVs 
in the South west US to be able to take advantage of a special $5000 
tax credit.     People never used the dual fuel capability, but  got 
the tax credit.  Perhaps some of this equipment would be useful.

BOB






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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:33:36 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: idle problems



Although most idle problems ARE related to vacuum leaks and throttle
linkage issues I have also seen idle ECU's fail. The one I had fail
did make the idle motor buzz but the idle was a steady 2,000 RPM.
Unplugging it did bring the idle down but the only conclusive way to
know the ECU was bad was by substitution of a known, good one. I
consider this rather rare, in most cases it is just a culmination of
many, small, vacuum leaks. It is never just one thing though, it is
usually also misadjusted things too. Someone trying to correct the
problem by "adjusting" it away. From turning the air bleed screws to
messing with the mixture screw or just not knowing there is supposed
to be a plug over the mixture screw! The good news is that once
properly set up it seems to hold settings for a long time. At least
until you get more vacuum leaks from old hoses and seals again.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> 
> 
> I've seen (twice) high idle caused by complete failure of the idle 
> control computer (using the term loosely). The test was to unplug the 
> computer, then the car would idle slow and somewhat erratically. 
> Swapping in a known-good box was the diagnostic technique, mostly 
> 








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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:11:05 -0500
From: "Warren Wallingford" <warren_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: re:Idle Problems


Mike-The thermister part number is 102480.  It is underneath the intake manifold.  You will have to remove all of it to get at it.  You will also have to sop up the coolant that runs out while you're changing it and re-bleed the cooling system after.  Like I said, a very irritating problem.  The intake manifold itself seals with six o-rings, one each around each intake port.  There are other gaskets and seals involved for which we have a kit.  Surprise.  It's part number K111171.  Pic below.

http://www.usadmc.com/dmcstore/ViewPart.asp?PID=3219&Qty=1&ShowCart=true

Warren at DMC

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:25:22 -0400
From: Kevin Abato <delorean_at_dml_abato.net>
Subject: Re: Delorean Mid-Atlantic Spring Social - Itinerary and Directions Available


Please note that we have made an adjustment to the Spring Social Itinerary.
The photo shoot will now be at a new location and take place just before
dinner.
 
You can see the itinerary and other information at the clubs site:
http://www.deloreanmidatlantic.com/updates/updates.htm
 
Thank you
 
Delorean Mid-Atlantic Club


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:22:35 -0000
From: "silverdelorean2002" <jon_at_dml_jonbrodi.com>
Subject: Re: DMC Delorean Headlight Covers Update Clear pictures



There are also now pictures up of Clear headlight covers.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&item=4543332236



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "silverdelorean2002" <jon_at_dml_j...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Thanks to the many that have purchased the Headlight Covers. We 
> apoligize about the delay with shipping. All covers are now in stock 
> and ready to ship so there will be no more delays. All orders ship 
> within 3 days. Take a look at the auction. There are many more 
> detailed pics available. (If link doesnt work copy and paste the 
> auction number into ebay 4543332236)
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
> ViewItem&item=4543332236
> 
> 
> 
> Coming soon... Rear tailight covers.








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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 23:51:29 +0100
From: "Alistair McCann" <pilot25dmc_at_dml_o2.co.uk>
Subject: DPNW Door Actuator Upgrade Wiring


Hi all

Has anyone fitted this to their car??

Does the wiring change if you have the zilla lock module instead of the original module??

Alistair McCann
DOC 25
VIN# PILOT25

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:51:58 -0400
From: "Dave Sontos" <dsontos_at_dml_verizon.net>
Subject: RE: So let's quiet this baby down...


	This is one of the first problems I noticed when I first bought my
car. I could hear every pebble I ran over on the road through the floor. I
couldn't listen to the radio without it blasting and trying to have a
conversation was almost impossible. 
	My solution was to rip out all of the original carpeting clear back
to the back wall. There was no carpet padding even in my car, I guess the PO
must have removed it. After conferring with a local upholstry shop owner who
has many car interior restorations under his belt, He gave me some pointers
on how to quiet down the car. He suggested a closed cell 1/4" rubber matting
with adhesive on one side to stick down then place the jute carpet padding
down and then the carpet. At my place of work we had to isolate a extremely
noisy vibrating machine into its own enclosure and add soundproofing
material to the walls of the room. This material was a closed cell foam with
a lead sheet sandwiched in the middle. According to the tech we worked with
the lead absorbs the sound waves and converts it to heat. Its neglible. The
only issue here is that the increased thickness can interfere with things
like the seat adjuster, emergency brake, and throttle pedal. These can be
addressed as you put down the barrior with cutouts. You can buy a similar
material here in the US with a vinyl barrier that has reduced performance. I
found a company in Canada that I bought mine from with the lead barrier,
total thickness is 1/2" thick. The company is B-Quiet and the product is
B-Quiet Lcomp 24 Sq.Ft. for $149.99. Web site at http://b-quiet.com . I
ordered two matts and covered everything right up to the back wall. The
change was astonishing. The matts are heavy with the lead sheet inside but
you won't feel any difference in performance. 
	If this is too much money then I suggest McMaster Carr. They have
several soundproofing matt materials. Search for Noise & Sound
Absorbers/Barriers.
	Other things to look at are what Dave T. suggested as tires, new gas
shocks from PJ Grady, and new door seals. I wouldn't add anything to the
doors themselves because the added weight would affect the door opening.

Good luck,
Dave Sontos
Vin 02573 nice and quiet

-----Original Message-----
From: ComposerZelgadis_at_dml_aol.com [mailto:ComposerZelgadis_at_dml_aol.com] 
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 1:07 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] So let's quiet this baby down...

I've made the decision.  I'd like to install a great sound system  in my
car. 
 All the mods I perform, I would like to keep 100%  reversible.
 
However, if I do indeed install that CD player, with the car in its present
condition... I won't get too much enjoyment out of it!  Why?  Too darn
loud!
 
So right now, I'm fishing around for ideas to reduce the overall noise of
the DeLorean.  Engine noise, road noise, wind noise... all of it.  A  few
ideas have been suggested to 






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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:48:25 -0500
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Re: idle problems


Group,
I get ask the question all the time about the Idle speed motor and I would
just like to say, yes it looks like a motor but it doesn't turn or
continuously rotates like a motor.
When the micro switch is tripped it completes the ground connection in the
circuit and the ECU sends more current to the motor to change the position
of the orifice in the motor, that's why it is a three wire connection.
The motor as we know it only rotates 180 degrees one way and 180 degrees
back. All it does is open the orifice and allow air to got into the air flow
meter so the car won't die.
In an idle position or when you let off the gas the vacuum solenoid closes
the vacuum to the ignition distributor so you won't have any spark advance
and the controlled amount of current goes to the motor to open the orifice.
I sell a few a year and have repaired a couple and the main problem is the
orifice movement may be stuck from moisture but won't move even though the
motor is humming. So don't think the operation is good if it hums. That is
what it is supposed to do.
One more thing, if you hook up 12 volts direct to the terminals in trying to
test it, you will or may burn it up.
As David said, the ECU very seldom goes out and I have one that can be used
to check out yours if you have a problem. I also have plenty of new ones and
good used motors if need. I don't mind loaning them out for test.
The temperature sensor switch also very seldom goes out because there are no
moving parts, it just changes resistance. It can be tested very easy for
operation.
Once you are idling good the bottom screw on the throttle body lever can be
adjusted to allow more air in to up the idle speed, but the top screw needs
to be adjusted also as to not loose the trip. The car idles better and runs
better at about 900 RPM's as far as I am concerned.
Our shop has just reworked 2 cars in the last week with idle problems and
neither one needed a motor or an ECU.
John Hervey
www.specialtauto.com
Now with a DeLorean shop.





-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Swingle [mailto:swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 11:31 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: idle problems





I've seen (twice) high idle caused by complete failure of the idle
control computer (using the term loosely). The test was to unplug the
computer, then the car would idle slow and somewhat erratically.
Swapping in a known-good box was the diagnostic technique, mostly
because I had another one handy.

Dave


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Warren Wallingford" <warren_at_dml_u...>
wrote:
>
> The flurry of talk lately about idle control problems, especially --
-

> To check the idle motor, grab it with the key on.  If it's
vibrating, generally it's OK or will be. Spray some WD-40 into the
throat and give it a couple of firm raps with the tuning hammer. If
it's not humming, check the connection on top.  Peel back the boot to
see that none of the little connectors have backed up into the boot.
If by this time, the motor doesn't respond, you're in for an idle
ECU.  Also, there is a temp sensor that tells the ECU to let more air
in when the engine is cold-the Contant Idle Switch or Thermister.
These go bad in a characteristic way.  The engine will idle fine
until it warms up, then as the engine warms, will rev higher until it
settles into a 2000-2500 rpm idle.  The thermister is located in the
coolant distrubution pipe under the intake manifold.  It cannot be
unplugged or overridden exept by disabling the ECU.  This failure is
very irritating.
>
> After all this, if the idle won't be controlled, there is surely
extra air coming from somewhere.  Find it.
>
> Pictures for the idle motor, ECU, Solenoid and Thermister are
behind the links.
>








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Message: 11
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:49:38 -0400
From: Patrick Conlon <PRC1216_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: So let's quiet this baby down...


I have often thought about Dynamating the entire floor of the car to see how
quiet I can make it.  It would be pretty pricy, but I think it would work
wonders.  I used it on the rear wall of the car by sticking it on the other
side of the carpeted board, and it quieted the engine noise down in my early
'81 a lot.  I bought it at Best Buy in the car stereo department, and
apparently in the booklet that came with it they have a spray to get in hard
to reach areas to block noise.  I also had a rattle in my passenger door
that I could not get out to save my life, so I took off the interior panel
and put dynamat on the other side of that.  It quieted down the door, and
didn't appear to affect its opening at all, which was surprising.  I thought
it would weight the door down, but it still flies up.  Eventually I found
the rattle was the door lock rod for the exterior lock going through a
rectangular opening inside the door was rattling.  I adjusted the linkage,
and then I shot some rubber undercoating on that rod and around the opening
in the door, and it quieted it down almost completely.

Good luck, it can be a quiet car.
-Patrick C.
1880






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Message: 12
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 02:12:44 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <martin_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: idle problems


Warren Wallingford wrote:

> there is a temp sensor that tells the ECU to let more air in when the engine is cold-the Contant Idle Switch or Thermister.  These go bad in a characteristic way.  The engine will idle fine until it warms up, then as the engine warms, will rev higher until it settles into a 2000-2500 rpm idle.  The thermister is located in the coolant distrubution pipe under the intake manifold.  It cannot be unplugged or overridden exept by disabling the ECU.  This failure is very irritating.
>  
>
Yes because it's such a sod to get at :-)

Just to add, these invariably fail open-circuit (and sometimes the 
connector can go bad resulting in the same symptoms) but is incredibly 
easy to diagnose. If you look at the top of your idlespeed ECU, you'll 
see that the pin-out for the plugs is numbered. Look for pins 9 and 11, 
and put an ohm-meter across them in the plug. From memory, the reading 
should be between 700 and 2200 ohm depending on engine temp. If it's O/C 
you immediately know where to look.

Martin





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