From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2608
Date: Friday, May 06, 2005 7:21 AM

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: VB
From: Michael Paine <mpaine_at_dml_tycomsystems.com>

2. Re: Restorable or Parts Car?
From: "John Spangler" <johnspangler_at_dml_netzero.net>

3. Re: What battery is recommended?
From: "sweetp01569" <sweetp01569_at_dml_yahoo.com>

4. Re: Restorable or Parts Car?
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net

5. Re: RE: Door Struts
From: Christopher Mack <christopher_mack_at_dml_yahoo.com>

6. Re: What battery is recommended?
From: "Matt Spittle" <supermatty_at_dml_psu.edu>

7. Re: Re: VB Radio Harness.
From: Eric Itzel <eric_at_dml_seviernet.com>

8. Re: Who has the best door struts?
From: Warren Wallingford <warren_at_dml_usadmc.com>

9. Re: Restorable or Parts Car?
From: "Matt Spittle" <supermatty_at_dml_psu.edu>

10. Re: Restorable or Parts Car?
From: "sweitzel_2000" <sweitzel_at_dml_lffltd.com>

11. Re: VB Radio Harness.
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>

12. Re: VB Radio Harness.
From: Greg Zapf <x86Daddy_at_dml_gmail.com>

13. RE: Door Struts
From: Aaron Crocco <acrocco_at_dml_gmail.com>

14. North Carolina gathering May 28?
From: "Louie" <louie_at_dml_delorean.com>

15. Re: Restorable or Parts Car?
From: Steve Stankiewicz <protodelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>

16. 1981 Delorean with Chevy V6 engine for sale
From: "stephenucedu" <steve100_at_dml_cinci.rr.com>

17. Re: Re: VB Radio Harness.
From: "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>

18. Re: VB Radio Harness.
From: "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>

19. Re: Restorable or Parts Car?
From: Packodenton_at_dml_aol.com

20. RE: Re: VB Radio Harness.
From: "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>

21. Re: RE: Door Struts
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>

22. Re: Restorable or Parts Car?
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net

23. Re: VB Radio Harness.
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

24. Re: Door Struts
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>

25. Re: 1981 Delorean with Chevy V6 engine for sale
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com





Message: 1
Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 16:07:38 -0400
From: Michael Paine <mpaine_at_dml_tycomsystems.com>
Subject: Re: VB

Would you start posting an alternative grey market site if DMCH or PJ Grady or
some other long known vendor posted a mention of a part they offered citing it
was cheaper?  Be fair people, we need the vendors... without them we are alone
with cars needing parts we can't get.

M Paine
vin 6067

Quoting Tom Watkins <outatime81_at_dml_yahoo.com>:

> It is my opinion that Bob has done a great job at keeping himself low-key on
> this list for quite some time.  I think it's bad form to start negative posts
> just because he posts something.  If you want to write Bob do it personally,
> he will respond.  Let's not start trashing him once again.  I haven't alway
> seen eye to eye with Bob but I feel that he has taken steps to be more a part
> of this community.   It's getting pretty old people.   I think Bob deserves
> some space to post here without being dumped on every time he does.  It's not
> fair.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> 
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com
> 
> To search the archives or view files, log in at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 






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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 20:25:50 -0000
From: "John Spangler" <johnspangler_at_dml_netzero.net>
Subject: Re: Restorable or Parts Car?

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Card" <stephen_at_dml_p...> wrote:
> The answer should ultimately come from yourself.
Great answer!

> Here are a few questions to answer to help with the decision:
> Do you have the ability to do all of the work for the restoration or 
> will you have to pay for the parts AND labor?

I'm good with my hands and I have good mechanical logic in general. 
Some of the really tricky stuff I might have to pay labor for.  I've
made Transformer toys from scratch and I've built models for the last
18 years or so, and I'm pretty handy around the house (spent the last
year+ fixing the place up).

> Do you have a suitable place soley for the restoration as this may 
> become a storage space when the budget runs low?

My new garage is almost done, built soley for the purpose of parking
and/or restoring my future DeLorean, and some other lucky auto
someday.  30'x30'. Plus I'm going to hang my newly refurbished
dealership sign up in there too.

> Do you have the time and financial constitution ($) to complete the 
> project? There WILL be unexpected expenses.

I currently work part time/house hub and I've got about $20k saved up

> Is the experience of Delorean ownership a passing fad or a deep 
> rooted desire that will withstand the challenges the car WILL throw 
> at you?

I've thought of buying no other car more than this for the last 20
years.  Ask anyone I ever went to school with.  I'm a certified freak.
 I've got a dealership sign for a car I don't own YET.  Never been an
"if" it's just been a "when".

> As far as helpful people, knowledge and information you have a 
> wealth of information between this list and all of our great vendors.

I love you folks already.  I have no idea why I didn't subscribe to
the DML before, guess I was never close enough to getting one.  Before
this I was a dedicated watcher of www.projectvixen.com. This is still
a big decision, for the money I could just buy a nice one and have it
and drive it everyday, or I could save one from the brink of
destruction but not get to use it for a long time.
*sigh*

-John






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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 20:42:31 -0000
From: "sweetp01569" <sweetp01569_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: What battery is recommended?

Thanks Dave,

I appreciate the cross reference to the Suburban battery.

Paul

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> It's a very standard Group 78 side-terminal battery. The common 
> recommendation is Interstate MT78, but honestly if you go in to 
any 
> battery store and say "98 Chevy Suburban K1500" you will get the 
right 
> battery. 
> 
> The "upgrade" that many people like is the spun-type dry 
electrolyte 
> battery such as the Optima. Can't help you with that one, but 
people 
> who have them swear by them. They do cost more, the main benefit 
is 
> that they won't leak all over your carpet when something goes 
wrong. 
> 
> Dave Swingle
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "sweetp01569" <sweetp01569_at_dml_y...> 
wrote:
> > If I want to replace the battery, are there comparable batteries 
at 
> > places like WalMart or Sears?
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Paul






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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 20:33:14 +0000
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: Restorable or Parts Car?

John - Any car can be brought back - it's a matter of how much 
patience and cubic dollars you have.  One question you have to ask 
yourself is what do you want to have when you are done with the 
restoration?  You also need to be honest about your answer.  The 
answer is key to determining if the car is restorable - by you.  

If the answer is "I want a nice driveable DeLorean when I am
done", you are probably better off shopping for a nice, driveable
DeLorean because you will be able to find one for less than it 
will take to make this car fit that category.  

If the answer is "I want to learn a lot about quirky automobiles
no matter how much it costs or how long it takes, and learn a 
bunch of new swear words while I'm at it", then this car is 
for you.

Obvious things you will need to tackle a project like this are:
tools, a place to put the car while you are restoring it (it takes
a surprising amount of space to restore a car), some mechanical
aptitude (skill will come as you move along), a shop manual,
a parts manual, attention to detail, time to work on the project, 
and the ability to handle disappointment.  You will also need to be 
prepared to spend at least twice as much as you think it will take 
in both time and money to put the car into the condition you want.

I have done a couple of restorations in the past, and I'm in the 
midst of a nut and bolt restoration of a 1971 Mustang 
convertible (the car goes onto the rotisserie in June).  The first 
cars I tried to restore turned out to be pretty much total disasters 
because I didn't know what I wanted when I was done, and I 
didn't have a relatively permanent space to see the project through 
to the end.   Now I have an 1800 sq ft heated building with enough
tools to do pretty much everything but paint a car.  I have also 
amassed a library of service manuals, restoration guides, parts
catalogs, and how-to books to help figure out what is possible
and how much it will cost.  Take a good hard look at those 
pictures and then spend a few days looking at the DMCH 
online parts catalog to give you an idea of what you are in for from
a cost perspective.  Then take a look at your garage and basement
and imagine a DeLorean exploded across them for a couple of 
years.

Another thing to keep in mind is that in the world of collector cars, 
only a very few people who restore a car ever get their money 
out of it.  Those that do are working with cars that sell for 
hundreds of thousands of dollars or have access to parts and
expertise that are just not available to the unwashed masses.

Take a deep breath and good luck!

--
Mike


-------------- Original message from Chris Shepherd <chrisau79_at_dml_yahoo.com>: -------------- 


> The car sitting next to it is a Corvair. How do you know the body is straight? 
> The only reason to paint a DeLorean, in my opinion, is Bondo. I agree that "dirt 
> cheap" is the price to pay. It looks like a parts car to me. 
> 
> Chris 
> 6301 
> 
> John Spangler wrote: 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Sam Hill wrote: 
> > Admit it, you've fallen in love already and 4543 is 
> > calling to you to rescue it from the eternal junk 
> > heap. Though the paint is the most disconcerting in 
> > my opinion, it looks like you've got a great 
> > opportunity to do an engine swap project...if you 
> > dare! 
> > 
> > I find it hard to believe that the car did not enjoy 
> > some kind of coverage for a long part of its life... I 
> > live in Tucson and that fascia should've warped long 
> > ago. 
> > 
> The dash took most of that burden, I'm afraid. 
> 
> I'm encouraged by the number of overnight responses to this post, and 
> I also received a number of emails asking how much the car is. The 
> current owner bought it from a guy's widow along with another, much 
> better condition car, which he subsequently gave to his grandson in CA 
> somewhere. This one became the parts car as it wasn't running. After 
> looking it over and showing him how bad it was, I still asked how much 
> he wanted for it. "I want a good price for it" was my answer, time 
> and again. $500 or $5000? No idea what he thinks is reasonable, but 
> I'll post pics and take recommendations, as I'm not the best haggler 
> when I'm excited. Here's a link to a quickie page I made. 

...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 14:10:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Christopher Mack <christopher_mack_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Door Struts

Scot,

I have the stabilus door struts on my car and they
have been working great.  I have heard that stabilus
door struts are of the highest quality.  DeLorean
Motor Center and John Hervey both sell the Stabilus
door struts.  I hope this helps.

-Chris
6453
--- sgskbm <SGSKBM_at_dml_aol.com> wrote:
> I have read the posts about which vendor has the
> best door struts and 
> this has been of great interest to me.  I bought a
> complete set of PJ 
> Grady's struts about three years ago and I have
> maybe 150 miles on 
> the car since I installed them.  I probably have a
> total of 75 
> openings on the driver side and maybe 20 on the
> passenger side.
> 
> They are both now bad in that they no longer go up
> more than 1/2 
> way.  I live in San Diego and the car is kept in a
> garage so 
> temperature should not be a factor.
> 
> I am not complaining about the quality or the fact
> that I now need to 
> replace them but I too am wondering about which
> vendor to use.  It 
> seems like some vendors give a longer warranty, some
> are temperature 
> compensated and some are highly recommended.
> 
> Have PJ's changed in the past couple of years?  If
> so, that could 
> make a difference.  Interestingly enough, the ones
> on the engine 
> compartment and the trunk seem to still work fine.
> 
> I thought it might be the torsion bars but to be
> honest, they worked 
> fine when they were new so I don't think this is the
> problem.  Any 
> thoughts?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Scot Stern
> 6452




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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 21:06:21 -0000
From: "Matt Spittle" <supermatty_at_dml_psu.edu>
Subject: Re: What battery is recommended?

I myself prefer the Sears Diehard.  Not too long ago, I remember
reading a website that compared a whole bunch of different style
(starting) batteries and weighed their strengths and weaknesses.  The
thing that differentiated the Diehard was that it could withstand more
deep cycles than any other battery (even Optima red-top).  I think the
actual number of cycles was 9 or 10.  

Matt
#1604


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> It's a very standard Group 78 side-terminal battery. The common 
> recommendation is Interstate MT78, but honestly if you go in to any 
> battery store and say "98 Chevy Suburban K1500" you will get the right 
> battery. 
> 
> The "upgrade" that many people like is the spun-type dry electrolyte 
> battery such as the Optima. Can't help you with that one, but people 
> who have them swear by them. They do cost more, the main benefit is 
> that they won't leak all over your carpet when something goes wrong. 
> 
> Dave Swingle
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "sweetp01569" <sweetp01569_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> > If I want to replace the battery, are there comparable batteries at 
> > places like WalMart or Sears?
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Paul






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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 17:10:44 -0400
From: Eric Itzel <eric_at_dml_seviernet.com>
Subject: Re: Re: VB Radio Harness.

>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>
>To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 12:02 PM
>Subject: RE: [DML] Re: VB Radio Harness.

> Ok Rich, let me clarify.
<Snip>
> Maybe I am an asshole, I don't know for sure

Hey Bob,

As it takes one to know one, you are an asshole. Don't feel bad, I'm an
asshole too. :)

Actually, just a serious question on this subject of grounding. If you
install a modern stereo into the car (the stereo having independant speaker
grounds), run new wire from the speakers to the radio, and use the "factory"
ground from the car to ground the stereo, would that present any kind of
problem?

Thanks!

Eric Itzel
vin 4433
asshole_at_dml_seviernet.com





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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 16:41:08 -0500
From: Warren Wallingford <warren_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: Re: Who has the best door struts?

I can't pass this up.  No matter whose struts you think are best, ours 
are the best looking and are the easiest to buy.  See for yourself.

http://www.usadmc.com/dmcstore/ViewPart.asp?PID=190&Qty=1&ShowCart=true
http://www.usadmc.com/dmcstore/ViewPart.asp?PID=1283&Qty=1&ShowCart=true
http://www.usadmc.com/dmcstore/ViewPart.asp?PID=1889&Qty=1&ShowCart=true

Warren Wallingford
DeLorean Motor Company (Texas)
15023 Eddie Drive
Humble, Texas 77396 USA

http://www.delorean.com
800/USA-DMC1
281/441-2537
281/441-2813 Fax

Rustproof wrote:
> This will be my third replacement set in five years. The first replacements were from

  DMCH but they cracked my mounts because they were a bit too long. 
After it was
repaired (and well reinforced) I purchased a new after-market set on 
ebay of unknown
origin (no markings). They worked O.K. for a season but now they are 
getting pretty
  weak. Now the question...Of the vendors, which one offers the best set 
and why?
> Rustproof
> 1559
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 




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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 21:12:30 -0000
From: "Matt Spittle" <supermatty_at_dml_psu.edu>
Subject: Re: Restorable or Parts Car?

I don't understand why anyone even attempts to go through the expense
of bondo and paint.  If the panel is straight enough to be repaired
with bondo/paint, then why isn't it straight enough to be repaired by
a stainless steel expert?  Does anyone remember the photos of the
repaired left front fender?  The fabricator cut out the damaged
section and welded in a new piece of stainless after working it on an
english wheel and the results were practically perfect.  

Matt
#1604

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Chris Shepherd <chrisau79_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> The car sitting next to it is a Corvair. How do you know the body is
straight? The only reason to paint a DeLorean, in my opinion, is
Bondo. I agree that "dirt cheap" is the price to pay. It looks like a
parts car to me.
>  
> Chris 
> 6301
> 






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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 22:17:28 -0000
From: "sweitzel_2000" <sweitzel_at_dml_lffltd.com>
Subject: Re: Restorable or Parts Car?

I guess you also have to ask yourself if you're going to do a full
restoration to show condition, or "refurbish" the car to be at least
driveable. Here's some facts to compare your situation with mine. I
paid $8500 for an Aug-81 that had been sitting in a garage with 4858
original miles on it for 15 years. The car was 100% complete and
original. The body was about 98% perfect (a small ding on the hood and
a cracked front windshield) and the interior was mint except for the
headliners. I still sunk nearly $4000 worth of just parts alone into
the car to get it running and reliable and I'm still not done yet.
I've done 100% of the labor myself (except for getting new Dunlop GT
Qualifiers mounted on the rims) and even was able to save $400 by
replacing the bad injectors and fuel distributor with ones from a
wrecked 83 Volvo GLE. I've put easily 100 hours of my time into it and
 wouldn't have even imagined trying to make repairs on my car without
a fully equipped garage of air and hand tools.

After looking at the pictures, I'd guess that you're looking at
probably $6000 worth of parts from the vendors to get it going again.
It's missing what looks like most of the K-jet system plus the rest of
it will most likely have to be rebuilt with new parts. The brakes are
probably all shot. ALL of the three million pieces of coolant hoses,
tires obviously, the necessary suspension repairs and upgrades. the
safety recalls, the necessary electrical upgrades and repairs. etc
etc. $6k seems like a lot but most of these parts nickel and dime you
to death. $100 here, $150 there, $399 here, etc. I think it's worthy
of a restoration or refurbishment, but I don't think I'd give the
owner more than $3000 to $4000 MAX.

-sean

> The dash took most of that burden, I'm afraid.
>  
> I'm encouraged by the number of overnight responses to this post, and
> I also received a number of emails asking how much the car is.  The
> current owner bought it from a guy's widow along with another, much
> better condition car, which he subsequently gave to his grandson in CA
> somewhere.  This one became the parts car as it wasn't running.  After
> looking it over and showing him how bad it was, I still asked how much
> he wanted for it.  "I want a good price for it" was my answer, time
> and again.  $500 or $5000? No idea what he thinks is reasonable, but
> I'll post pics and take recommendations, as I'm not the best haggler
> when I'm excited.  Here's a link to a quickie page I made.
> 
> http://johnspangler.com/whitedelorean
> 
> It's ironically sitting next to another rear engine car.  I didn't get
> to the passenger side door at all, 'cause basically I'm afraid of
> spiders and didn't want to venture between the cars.  Maybe next time.
> 
> And yes, I'm a bit smitten with it, and I only got a few hours of
> sleep thinking about it all night.  I think if I can get it for like
> DIRT CHEAP I'll give it a shot, and at the very least have a car to
> learn with so I don't mess up a nice one someday.  It fell precisely
> into my criteria of what I might consider buying, a late '81 with less
> than 25k miles on it, straight stainless panels, good door fit and
> gray interior.
> I've got a few weeks until my garage is finished, so I've got some
> time to think it over.  Another short while in the sun isn't going to
> make a difference at this point.
> 
> Decisions, decisions...
> 
> -John






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Message: 11
Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 21:44:09 -0000
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>
Subject: Re: VB Radio Harness.

[Moderator Note: With this comment the discussion is closed.  Anyone wondering whether a singular or plural noun is appropriate when discussing fractions between one and two please consult the American Heritage Dictionary.  Anyone wishing to debate that subject please find one of the many excellent English grammar forums on the Internet.
  - Mike Substelny, DML moderator of the week]


VB and vendor customers,

I purposely left only the first three sentences from your previous
post, since those are the only ones that applied to my post.

If you had said you have been "using something for over a year", it
would have been the truth, but trying to add credibility by saying
"I have been using it for years" is just not true.  Why say it if
its not true unless you are trying to add credibility.

As a side note, I was not questioning your video abilities, so why
even bring it up.  Even if someone has questioned your ethics for
some of your DVD products, there is no reason to post your whole
resume on the DML.  As I said, I have no problem with the parts you
sell or how you sell them, so I guess that whole rant about how you
did not make the part was for someone else. 

I guess if you think that using something for 18 months is actually
using it for years, there is nothing I can do to change that.  I
guess if it FEELS like years already, you should be at the 10 year
ownership mark in no time at all.

Both myself and many others on the list have no problems with new
DeLorean owners, but if you are trying to establish yourself in the
community, saying things that are not true about your DeLorean parts
ownership, or experiences will make people question you and them.
The DeLorean community is relatively small, with a small group of
vendors, so when you are new to the community and try to become a
vendor among a small group of established vendors, you should not
fake "years of reliable service" within your first year and a half.

Of course I appreciate the extra digs you felt the need to throw in
about my custom DeLoreans and my Discovery Channel shows, especially
mentioning the destruction of the hovercraft.  Adding a smiley's at
the end of "bashes" do not make them OK to post.  I guess, like my
Discovery Channel shows, people like me can read your posts strictly
for their entertainment value and nothing more.

Later,
Rich W.


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_h...> 
wrote:
> Ok Rich, let me clarify.
> I have been using the harness since December, 2003 when I installed 
my radio 
> into the car.
> After hours and hours of use it has been fine.
>
> snip <






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Message: 12
Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 17:26:03 -0500
From: Greg Zapf <x86Daddy_at_dml_gmail.com>
Subject: Re: VB Radio Harness.

Just some follow up info on how I used a harness that I bought from Videobob:
My new front speakers came with long enough wires to reach the stereo,
and they (Pioneer) had plugs on the ends of those wires.  I added
matching plugs directly to the stereo's harness and connected them.  I
used the same metallic ground concept Videobob explained already for
system ground.  I used constant +12 and accessory +12 from the harness
as intended.

Here's where I did something different:
I ran new wires for the rear speakers.  I then replaced, in the
factory harness, the positive rear and common ground leads with those
from my new wiring  I was able do do this by not cutting, but simply
pulling out the original leads for the rear speakers and common
grounds and using the leads from the other end of the purchased
harness (I soldered or crimped those to the new speaker wire).  With
that solution, I was able to wire up the harness almost exactly as
intended, just without the front speakers, and plug-n-play evermore. 
In the future, if I or a future owner (over my dead body ;-)  ) needs
/ wants to replace the HU or speakers, it will be a very simple,
plug-n-play, almost-as-documented affair.  And with modern-style,
separated grounds.

If this sounded like a confusing mess to someone who wants to emulate
it in the future, just send me an e-mail and I'll be glad to try and
explain it better.

Overall, I found Videobob's harness *very* satisfactory, and I like to
think the $3 premium over the cheaper source will help fund more
exploratory work to find other niche parts for the car.  Or a beer. 
:-)

--Greg
#2894

On 5/4/05, Videobob Moseley <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com> wrote:
> I will have to disagree with you Marc.
> I don't think you have ever seen one of my harness' in person have you?
> I also don't think you understand the concept of what it is for, and how it
> is used.
> I have been using one for years, and have sold almost 100 of these, all to
> happy
> customers who are using them safely without one single complaint or instance
> of failure! Why complicate things Marc?
> It's just a wire harness and plug that matches the factory plug!
> 
> Using my harness adapter, you simply plug it in to the original wire plug
> that leads
> to the factory radio. This 9-pin harness includes the constant power,
> accessory power,
> the power ground, and the speaker connections.
> When using the adapter, your only real benefits are tapping the power, and
> avoiding
> cutting of the original wire harness.
> When installing a new modern radio it would be best to run an additional
> ground
> from the grounding point on the back of the radio to some other part of the
> console frame.
> Unlike a regular steel car that just grounds everything to it's own frame or
> body....
> Since the DeLorean doesn't have all these unlimited grounding points they
> have made one
> in the metal frame of the console housing by directly running a grounding
> wire that runs
> from the electrical compartment to a point on the console.
> In different cars it is sometimes in different places, but usually in a big
> clump with a bunch
> of other grounds from everything in the console, (clock, lights, switches,
> etc.)
> You can add your extra ground here.
> 
> The car's harness, and my adapter with both handle the power of any
> radio sold today. The original power wires still contain a fused link for
> protection.
> However, you may not add other accesories to this power lead, such as an
> equalizer, amplifier, CB radio, etc.... these need to have new power leads
> run from the power compartment or the battery itself.
> 
> You will want to use all new speaker wires on your new radio.
> I suggest buying two harness (or using any other standard 8-pin or larger
> harness)
> for the speaker connections. (makes for easy removal).
> You will wire the speaker connections directly from the radio to their
> locations.
> The reason you can not simply use the original wire harness is because the
> old Craig
> radios used a different type of grounding system.
> Rather than have a positive and negative for each speaker, they use one
> negative that
> was shared for each side (left & right) and a positive for each speaker.
> This is why there is only 6 wire connections on the harness for the 4
> speakers.
> The left over 3 wires are for your two power, and ground.
> 
> The point of the harness is to avoid cutting into your wire harness and
> preserving the
> original integrity of the car. I have been using one of my harnesses on my
> Sony MP3
> stereo for years. My Sony has a built in hard drive in it and uses more
> power than most
> radios, I have NEVER had a problem with the harness.
>




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Message: 13
Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 18:31:30 -0400
From: Aaron Crocco <acrocco_at_dml_gmail.com>
Subject: RE: Door Struts

Scott,

  I am really suprised that your struts aren't holding up after only
three years of bairly any use.  The first thing that popped into my
head was the possibility that you need a torsion bar adjustment.  If
they were ever futzed with, the ability of the struts to open the door
can be greatly affected.  I've seen doors open so fast that they
almost clocked me in the chin, but also doors that open a bit but
nothing more.

  Being on the east coast, most door struts I come across are PJ Grady
ones and I've never heard anything about this.  Perhaps Rob is using a
new verson but I haven't heard anything about it.  He actually might
be interested to know of your experience.  Just my 2 cents.

-Aaron Crocco
Vin 5591
NY Plate: OUTATYM

****Original Message****

  Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 19:13:18 -0000
  From: "sgskbm" <SGSKBM_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: RE: Door Struts

I have read the posts about which vendor has the best door struts and
this has been of great interest to me.  I bought a complete set of PJ
Grady's struts about three years ago and I have maybe 150 miles on
the car since I installed them.  I probably have a total of 75
openings on the driver side and maybe 20 on the passenger side.

They are both now bad in that they no longer go up more than 1/2
way.  I live in San Diego and the car is kept in a garage so
temperature should not be a factor.

I am not complaining about the quality or the fact that I now need to
replace them but I too am wondering about which vendor to use.  It
seems like some vendors give a longer warranty, some are temperature
compensated and some are highly recommended.

Have PJ's changed in the past couple of years?  If so, that could
make a difference.  Interestingly enough, the ones on the engine
compartment and the trunk seem to still work fine.

I thought it might be the torsion bars but to be honest, they worked
fine when they were new so I don't think this is the problem.  Any
thoughts?

Thanks,

Scot Stern
6452




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Message: 14
Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 23:13:22 -0000
From: "Louie" <louie_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: North Carolina gathering May 28?

Hi List,

There has been a call for another North Carolina DeLorean gathering. 
The preliminary date of Saturday May 28 has been suggested. Last time 
around everyone seemed to enjoy hanging out at Jeff Friday's place in 
Concord, North Carolina; so we may go for that again. There are some 
fun twisty roads near Jeff's place. Jeff will also have his DeLorean 
completely torn down during that time, so some of you guys may enjoy 
seeing that as well. I have no agenda and no activities planned yet, 
so if you have any ideas on when to meet, where, and what to do: drop 
me a line at Louie(AT)DeLorean.com. I'll probably just plan on an all 
day "tech session," lunch and dinner, and a driving tour of sorts. 
Just let me know what appeals to you. As always this is open to 
EVERYONE, regardless if you own a DeLorean or if you don't. We should 
have a blast if it is going to be anything like our last get together!

Louie Golden
VIN 5252 Charlotte, NC






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Message: 15
Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 16:45:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steve Stankiewicz <protodelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Restorable or Parts Car?

Hi John.  I had to deal with a similar owner that
thought the car was worth more than it was.  Here's
how I handled it, maybe it will work for you:

Make up a list.  At the top, Start with the car itself
and list it's value in good condition at the given
mileage.  Then below that add a line for each part the
car needs replaced.  Include the part number and the
price (say, from DMCH).  You can even attach printouts
of the page from DMCH's website.  This gives you tons
of credibility.  After adding up every part eh car
needs, deduct that from the initial value you put at
the top and show what the car is "worth".  (It'll be
very difficult for him to argue with you when you've
provided backup for your numbers from a very credible
source.)  When you're done, it may say he owes you
money to take it.  So you may have to go back and
adjust some of your numbers.

Anyway, it worked for me.  Good luck and let me know
how it works out!



Steve

VIN 2650 ("Project Delorean")
www.projectdelorean.com




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Message: 16
Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 23:55:28 -0000
From: "stephenucedu" <steve100_at_dml_cinci.rr.com>
Subject: 1981 Delorean with Chevy V6 engine for sale

Group,

I am relocating from Cincinnati to the DC area, and sadly must sell
my Delorean. It has 12,800 original miles, and concours-quality 
exterior and interior. It has black interior, 5-speed manual, gas flap,
and hood grooves. It has a 4.2 L Chevy V6 engine, with lots of 
power upgrades. It is quite fast, and very reliable.

Go to www.lfnet.net/dmc

to see pictures and all the specifications.

I am posting this to the community first, and only if necessary will
I use E-bay. I am readily available any time for questions, or a
look and test drive.

steve






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Message: 17
Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 19:50:18 -0500
From: "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: VB Radio Harness.

You are reffering to the 12 volt ground for the power?
The grounds on the DeLorean can be tricky.
Sometimes you need to use a filter if you are getting engine noise.
To be honest, the absolute best way to do things is to go direct to the 
battery
and make the entire system independent of the car alltogether.
- VB

>From: Eric Itzel <eric_at_dml_seviernet.com>
>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [DML] Re: VB Radio Harness.
>Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 17:10:44 -0400
>
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>
> >To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 12:02 PM
> >Subject: RE: [DML] Re: VB Radio Harness.
>
> > Ok Rich, let me clarify.
><Snip>
> > Maybe I am an asshole, I don't know for sure
>
>Hey Bob,
>
>As it takes one to know one, you are an asshole. Don't feel bad, I'm an
>asshole too. :)
>
>Actually, just a serious question on this subject of grounding. If you
>install a modern stereo into the car (the stereo having independant speaker
>grounds), run new wire from the speakers to the radio, and use the 
>"factory"
>ground from the car to ground the stereo, would that present any kind of
>problem?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Eric Itzel
>vin 4433
>asshole_at_dml_seviernet.com




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Message: 18
Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 19:52:26 -0500
From: "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: VB Radio Harness.

Find me at CHI06, you'll get that beer....
Providing Ken is having a full bar at this event this time! - LOL
Thanks!
- VB


>From: Greg Zapf <x86Daddy_at_dml_gmail.com>
>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [DML] VB Radio Harness.
>Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 17:26:03 -0500
>
>Just some follow up info on how I used a harness that I bought from 
>Videobob:
>My new front speakers came with long enough wires to reach the stereo,
>and they (Pioneer) had plugs on the ends of those wires.  I added
>matching plugs directly to the stereo's harness and connected them.  I
>used the same metallic ground concept Videobob explained already for
>system ground.  I used constant +12 and accessory +12 from the harness
>as intended.
>
>Here's where I did something different:
>I ran new wires for the rear speakers.  I then replaced, in the
>factory harness, the positive rear and common ground leads with those
>from my new wiring  I was able do do this by not cutting, but simply
>pulling out the original leads for the rear speakers and common
>grounds and using the leads from the other end of the purchased
>harness (I soldered or crimped those to the new speaker wire).  With
>that solution, I was able to wire up the harness almost exactly as
>intended, just without the front speakers, and plug-n-play evermore.
>In the future, if I or a future owner (over my dead body ;-)  ) needs
>/ wants to replace the HU or speakers, it will be a very simple,
>plug-n-play, almost-as-documented affair.  And with modern-style,
>separated grounds.
>
>If this sounded like a confusing mess to someone who wants to emulate
>it in the future, just send me an e-mail and I'll be glad to try and
>explain it better.
>
>Overall, I found Videobob's harness *very* satisfactory, and I like to
>think the $3 premium over the cheaper source will help fund more
>exploratory work to find other niche parts for the car.  Or a beer.
>:-)

[incredibly long quote trimmed by merciful moderator]




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Message: 19
Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 20:59:26 EDT
From: Packodenton_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Restorable or Parts Car?

John:

I would say restore it. 

However, do you want a clean car to drive around and travel with? Take your 
$20,000 and buy a clean car.

It is going to cost you more than 20k for a restoration on that car.

Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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Message: 20
Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 20:05:11 -0500
From: "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Re: VB Radio Harness.

[Moderator Note: Now this thread is really closed.
  - Mike Substelny DML moderator of the week]

I stand corrected, you are right.
Let me publicly announce to everyone...
"I have not been using the wire harness on my car for years, but merely 18 
months".
I apologize.
Thank you for keeping me in line and on the straight and narrow.
I wouldn't want anyone to believe that the harness would last the extra
6 months unless I have actually seen it myself.
So I will give you an update on how it is doing in another 6 months and 1 
day,
I will mark it on my calendar and then return to make the claim that I have
in fact been using it for "years".

I think they important thing I forgot to mention was that I was testing
it's durability in DOG years, and so far it has lasted over 10 and doing 
well.

As far a "digs" at you?
I never made any bashes at your projects or shows Rich.... I genuinely like 
the
the stuff you do and I am glad you are out there promoting the car.
I told you before, YOU were one of my inspirations for taking the actual 
steps
to buying a DeLorean in the first place.
I have nothing but respect for you Rich.
That said, I was surprised to see you jump in this conversation,
especially with such a trivial set of semantics like 18 months vs. 2 years. 
- WHATEVER.
Who cares?
Does it change anything about the wire harness?
Your right, it does "seem" like years because I was lurking on the list and 
buying
and selling DeLorean stuff before I actually bought the car in November 
2003.
The point is, why try to publicly call me out in an effort to humiliate me?
What other motive could you have had?
What was the point?

Listen, no hard feelings.
I like you.
Sorry if I offended you.
- Videobob


>From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>
>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [DML] Re: VB Radio Harness.
>Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 21:44:09 -0000
>
>[Moderator Note: With this comment the discussion is closed.  Anyone 
>wondering whether a singular or plural noun is appropriate when discussing 
>fractions between one and two please consult the American Heritage 
>Dictionary.  Anyone wishing to debate that subject please find one of the 
>many excellent English grammar forums on the Internet.
>   - Mike Substelny, DML moderator of the week]
>
>
>VB and vendor customers,
>
>I purposely left only the first three sentences from your previous
>post, since those are the only ones that applied to my post.
>
>If you had said you have been "using something for over a year", it
>would have been the truth, but trying to add credibility by saying
>"I have been using it for years" is just not true.  Why say it if
>its not true unless you are trying to add credibility.
>
>As a side note, I was not questioning your video abilities, so why
>even bring it up.  Even if someone has questioned your ethics for
>some of your DVD products, there is no reason to post your whole
>resume on the DML.  As I said, I have no problem with the parts you
>sell or how you sell them, so I guess that whole rant about how you
>did not make the part was for someone else.
>
>I guess if you think that using something for 18 months is actually
>using it for years, there is nothing I can do to change that.  I
>guess if it FEELS like years already, you should be at the 10 year
>ownership mark in no time at all.
>
>Both myself and many others on the list have no problems with new
>DeLorean owners, but if you are trying to establish yourself in the
>community, saying things that are not true about your DeLorean parts
>ownership, or experiences will make people question you and them.
>The DeLorean community is relatively small, with a small group of
>vendors, so when you are new to the community and try to become a
>vendor among a small group of established vendors, you should not
>fake "years of reliable service" within your first year and a half.
>
>Of course I appreciate the extra digs you felt the need to throw in
>about my custom DeLoreans and my Discovery Channel shows, especially
>mentioning the destruction of the hovercraft.  Adding a smiley's at
>the end of "bashes" do not make them OK to post.  I guess, like my
>Discovery Channel shows, people like me can read your posts strictly
>for their entertainment value and nothing more.
>
>Later,
>Rich W.




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Message: 21
Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 21:05:57 -0400
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>
Subject: Re: RE: Door Struts

Scott,

I went through a lot of struts in my first eight or so years of 
DeLorean ownership.  I had struts from Grady, Houston, and the defunct 
Swedish place.  The struts would always work for a few months then my 
doors would start to sag.

It turned out that I *did* need a torsion bar adjustment.

The reason was simple: I have an early '81 car.  It left the factory 
before they had started putting door guides on the cars.  When the door 
guides were added later my doors became heavier.  This meant the struts 
couldn't lift them properly.

Your VIN is also pretty early.  It is possible that your door guides (or 
some other door parts) were added by a QAC or dealer of PO without an 
appropriate torsion bar adjustment.  One spline can make a world of 
difference!

- Mike Substelny
VIN 01280
11 (gasp) years





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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 22
Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 01:52:57 +0000
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: Restorable or Parts Car?

Because most body shops in the US won't touch it.  It's not what
they normally do, so they convince the owner to do what they 
are comfortable with, which is bondo and paint.  Just try and
find an english wheel in a body shop these days.

--
Mike


-------------- Original message from "Matt Spittle" <supermatty_at_dml_psu.edu>: -------------- 


> I don't understand why anyone even attempts to go through the expense 
> of bondo and paint. If the panel is straight enough to be repaired 
> with bondo/paint, then why isn't it straight enough to be repaired by 
> a stainless steel expert? Does anyone remember the photos of the 
> repaired left front fender? The fabricator cut out the damaged 
> section and welded in a new piece of stainless after working it on an 
> english wheel and the results were practically perfect. 
> 
> Matt 
> #1604 
> 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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Message: 23
Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 01:53:46 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: VB Radio Harness.

You are confusing the returns from the speakers with the power and
ground connection. The ground connection for the power is adequate for
most applications but if you are installing serious power you should
use dedicated and heavier connections. Most custom install shops will
run their own wires directly to the battery to eliminate connections
and reduce interference. Always fuse your connections as close to the
battery as practicle. In many high power applications they use "caps"
or capacitors to reduce surges (like when the bass vibrates the
windows). It comes down to what you want to do and how much you are
spending. I have seen many installs where they have to leave the motor
running or the battery will quickly go dead, that's how much power
they are using for the music! BTW if you have noise on the power line
you NEVER filter the ground, only the power lead. On installs like
this they have a dedicated battery for the music, isolated from the
rest of the car except the alternator to keep it charged up.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> You are reffering to the 12 volt ground for the power?
> The grounds on the DeLorean can be tricky.
> Sometimes you need to use a filter if you are getting engine noise.
> To be honest, the absolute best way to do things is to go direct to the 
> battery
> and make the entire system independent of the car alltogether.
> - VB
> 
> >From: Eric Itzel <eric_at_dml_s...>
> >Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> >To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [DML] Re: VB Radio Harness.
> >Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 17:10:44 -0400
> >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_h...>
> > >To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
> > >Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 12:02 PM
> > >Subject: RE: [DML] Re: VB Radio Harness.
> >
> > > Ok Rich, let me clarify.
> ><Snip>
> > > Maybe I am an asshole, I don't know for sure
> >
> >Hey Bob,
> >
> >As it takes one to know one, you are an asshole. Don't feel bad, I'm an
> >asshole too. :)
> >
> >Actually, just a serious question on this subject of grounding. If you
> >install a modern stereo into the car (the stereo having independant
speaker
> >grounds), run new wire from the speakers to the radio, and use the 
> >"factory"
> >ground from the car to ground the stereo, would that present any
kind of
> >problem?
> >
> >Thanks!
> >
> >Eric Itzel
> >vin 4433
> >asshole_at_dml_s...






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Message: 24
Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 02:26:51 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Door Struts

I've been a DeLorean owner since January 1982 and I have never seen 
the availability of quality parts and service that I see now. Car 
enthusiasm seems as high as I seen too.

So, I want all the vendors to be successful. I think they are all 
filling a need and are working out their niches. If you want quality 
replacement or rebuilt parts Grady is top drawer and so is (was) 
Zilla. Toby Peterson is by far the top innovator in my opinion and 
Hervey, he finds new stuff or has it made, I guess, that I thought 
would be out of existence by now - plus, his alternators are top of 
the line. And of course there is DMCH. Where would we be if Stephen 
Wynne had not been brave enough to get the mother load? I don't want 
to forget Don Steger who has his own innovations. Ed Bernstein at 
DeLorean One, who helped thousands of owners out in the old days, 
has carved out his own market these days I guess. Then there is 
Bauerle Automotive and others. What a great list.

But, you asked who has the best struts. You should try them ALL - at 
least once. No door is the same. You need to find the ones that work 
best on your car. I'm working on it and so far Hervey's are working 
the best and lasting the longest. He claims they are original specs 
 I don't know. It always seemed to me that the originals had an 
internal brake  the ones I have now from Hervey seem a bit weak in 
that department but they sure did work consistently cold to hot. I'm 
intrigued by Toby's design with the different valving  but I have 
to wait for all my others to go bad first. O yea, Grady's seemed a 
bit weak for my car and as a result one season was it. DMCH had a 
quality issue with the batch I got from them  they readily replaced 
them at no charge - but I got Hervey's in the interim so I can't 
speak to the new ones of DMCH yet.

Harold McElraft - 3354



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "sgskbm" <SGSKBM_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> I have read the posts about which vendor has the best door struts 
and 
> this has been of great interest to me.  I bought a complete set of 
PJ 
> Grady's struts about three years ago and I have maybe 150 miles on 
> the car since I installed them.  I probably have a total of 75 
> openings on the driver side and maybe 20 on the passenger side.
> 
> They are both now bad in that they no longer go up more than 1/2 
> way.  I live in San Diego and the car is kept in a garage so 
> temperature should not be a factor.
> 
> I am not complaining about the quality or the fact that I now need 
to 
> replace them but I too am wondering about which vendor to use.  It 
> seems like some vendors give a longer warranty, some are 
temperature 
> compensated and some are highly recommended.
> 
> Have PJ's changed in the past couple of years?  If so, that could 
> make a difference.  Interestingly enough, the ones on the engine 
> compartment and the trunk seem to still work fine.
> 
> I thought it might be the torsion bars but to be honest, they 
worked 
> fine when they were new so I don't think this is the problem.  Any 
> thoughts?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Scot Stern
> 6452






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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 25
Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 22:28:38 EDT
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: 1981 Delorean with Chevy V6 engine for sale

I have seen and ridden in this car and it is a low mileage car with only an  
engine mod and it was done very well.  The original harness is still there  
and can be changed back easily if needed.  
 
But the engine in this car really makes it fly.
I don't know the HP but it really has power.
The car also runs smooth when you are not on it.
 
If you are looking for a clean car with power this is it.
 
I usually don't plug cars for sale but this is a unique car and the price  is 
reasonable.
 
Good luck Steve
( I copies Steve on it so if you are interested you can contact him)
 
Ken


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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________________________________________________________________________


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