From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2619
Date: Friday, May 13, 2005 5:23 PM

There are 19 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: BROKEN bolts!!!
From: "Stephen Card" <stephen_at_dml_procomroofing.com>

2. Re: Cooling fan fell off the motor shaft
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

3. Re: Cracked Windshield
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

4. Re: Re: The Door Strut Experiment
From: Lacy <heylacy_at_dml_yahoo.com>

5. Re: Cracked Windshield
From: Hank <heskin_at_dml_gmail.com>

6. just some good news for a change
From: "sweitzel_2000" <sweitzel_at_dml_lffltd.com>

7. Rotors & Calipers Anyone?
From: "Steve Auyer" <sauyer_at_dml_twcny.rr.com>

8. struts
From: Tom Watkins <outatime81_at_dml_yahoo.com>

9. Re: Cracked Windshield
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

10. Re: just some good news for a change
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

11. Re: Re: Removing windscreen trim
From: Jeff Phillips <rvparty_at_dml_gmail.com>

12. Re: Re: Removing windscreen trim
From: Warren Wallingford <warren_at_dml_usadmc.com>

13. Re: Removing windscreen trim
From: "Jim Reeve" <dmc6960_at_dml_gmail.com>

14. Re: Removing windscreen trim
From: "Matt Spittle" <supermatty_at_dml_psu.edu>

15. Re: Removing windscreen trim
From: "Dave" <v-davidj_at_dml_microsoft.com>

16. Flushing coolant system
From: "secret_jedi_guy" <secret_jedi_guy_at_dml_yahoo.com>

17. RE: struts
From: <rob_at_dml_pjgrady.com>

18. Re: Re: Cooling fan fell off the motor shaft
From: Ryan Wright <ryanpwright_at_dml_gmail.com>

19. Barris DeLorean Auction
From: Holler <thehauntfactory_at_dml_att.net>





Message: 1
Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 21:26:02 -0000
From: "Stephen Card" <stephen_at_dml_procomroofing.com>
Subject: Re: BROKEN bolts!!!

If you have a local NAPA shop they should be able to get you a 7mm 
helicoil kit.
Stephen

If you need to helicoil a 7 mm hole, you may need to mail-order the 
heli-coil kit as 7 mm is an uncommon size. It may not be available 
locally.
> 
> -Joe Kuchan







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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 23:19:01 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Cooling fan fell off the motor shaft

I understand what you did but I was not able to do it on the several
cars I have worked on. I can only guess that there is some variation
and some cars will have just enough room to do it and others won't. In
any case the general consensus is that you should remove the radiator
anyway to at least inspect it and/or replace it. It is difficult to
juggle the fan shroud with the fans, the radiator, and the condensor
coil when you are underneath with anti-freeze dripping down your arms.
I also think you should remove the radiator to clean all the junk out
from between the radiator and the condensor coil. It is near
impossible to fix any broken studs on the condensor coil or the
radiator with the radiator still attached. I separated the shroud with
the fan motors still attached and tied it back, up into the frame
above the crumple zone. I then disconnected the radiator and removed
it making it a lot easier and a lot more room to get the shroud out
without taking a chance of damaging the radiator or the shroud. It is
a little clumsy to handle the shroud with the fan motors in it, they
are kind of heavy and the shroud, being plastic, is fragile. The worst
part is those damm, little nuts holding the shroud to the radiator.
That and working underneath and overhead. I guess you could just
remove the fan shroud, pull it back, and do the repair on the pin
without taking the fan shroud out of the car. In any case it is just
good practice on a 20 year old car to do what needs to be done in
whatever area you are taking apart. That is unless you are trying to
keep your costs down and "cheap out". This means replacing the hoses,
radiator, anti-freeze, and brushes inside the fan motors.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Ryan Wright <ryanpwright_at_dml_g...> wrote:
> > You really do have to pull the radiator out to get the shroud with the
> > fan motors out. 
> 
> David -- With all due respect, this is incorrect. I just did it a few
> months ago, replacing the entire fan assembly with John Hervey's
>






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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 23:28:32 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Cracked Windshield

I recently purchesed a windshield from Rob. I had it installed
professionally. It cracked about a month later. Upon close inspection
the shop was able to determine the glass had, at some time, been
dinged or dropped on the bottom edge. Not near the clip but closer to
the side (the left side by the driver). You could see where a chip had
been knocked out of it, that is where the crack started. I was able to
have it repaired with "invisible" epoxy injectd into the crack. Maybe
this is what happened to you. It might just be a coincidence that it
was just where the clip is. It had nothing to do with flexing of the
body. If the crack is caused by the clip, then it is most probably
from improper installation.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757 



--). 
> 
> My "shop" was Rob Grady, I think he knows what he's doing -- and of
> course, I'm going back to have it replaced.  There's no shop around
> h






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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 18:34:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lacy <heylacy_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: The Door Strut Experiment

Hi, Wanna trade struts? I have a new pr. that won't even come close to breaking your mounts. They are about 3 weeks old from Gradys, I havn't contacted them  about exchange yet, as they are weak and uneven lift. They also have alot of side to side and back and forth play. My old ones don't have the play and I'm told they shoudn't have play.Tried another D owners struts on my car and they worked fine, so I know the tortion bars are set correct. Thanks for you time.

Rustproof <Rustproof_at_dml_comcast.net> wrote:All,
I just had an opportunity to install the Grady struts. My intention was to
take a few measurements to set a base- line for the test. After I set my
torsion bars to the proper "Hang" point, (without struts, about 20 inches
from sill to door.) I installed the Grady lifts and let them go with just an
unlatching of the door and no other release assistance. The Grady struts
raised the doors with such force that the car rocked from side to side
several times! I actually had to check the mounts to see if they had been
damaged. I re-adjusted until the door's torsion bars without struts were set
to a point where they were so slack that they hung with only one inch
between the sill and the bottom of the door (Almost closed). I let them fly
and they still flew open with impressive force far greater than I would
recommend. I observed no "braking action" or deceleration whatsoever. They
landed hard. Closing them took considerably more force than I recall ever
using. In addition, I also have the extra weight of the door launcher
solenoids which is about an 2 extra pounds worth of components which adds
even more burden when you consider their mounting position relative to the
cantilever of the door. I would assume that proper torsion adjustment
compensates for the additional burden but not when they are that slack. I am
afraid to even try to use the launchers because they'll hit so hard I think
they'll crack the roof panel if launched simultaneously. Hearing all the
"they barely lift my door stories" I wasn't expecting this at all. These are
VERY powerful struts. The most surprising aspect was this first round was
observed at 68 degrees during the day and again at 39 degrees at night with
no discernable change. My old struts worked OK during the day with the sun
beating on it but were nearly worthless below 50 degrees. I believe I may
have to re-think the parameters of this test a bit. Stay tuned...
Rustproof
Vin 1559
[moderator snip]




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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 23:17:31 -0400
From: Hank <heskin_at_dml_gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Cracked Windshield

On 5/12/05, David Teitelbaum wrote:
>It might just be a coincidence that it was just where the clip is. 

If you look at my crack (sorry, no pun intended), you'll see that the
crack starts just to the right of the clip and not *at* the clip.

And where might I find a shop that does "invisible epoxy" repairs?  Is
there something specific I can ask if they do it?

Thanks,
-Hank




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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 05:51:13 -0000
From: "sweitzel_2000" <sweitzel_at_dml_lffltd.com>
Subject: just some good news for a change

This board is priceless in the amount of information that can be had
to help us all solve problems with our D's and thus is mostly filled
with questions or problems and solutions and that's quite all right.
Well, I'd like to post something different. I haven't driven or even
started my D since the first of April. This is mostly due to some
rainy weather and the fact that I recently bought an older Ford
Explorer just to bum around town in and not worry about and have been
playing with that vehicle for the past several weeks. I decided on a
whim on Tuesday to drive my D to work, and at 8am Wednesday discovered
that my battery was dead. So I put a charger on it and went to work.
After the battery was charged that afternoon, I got in and turned the
key and not even a half second of cranking my D roared to life and
settled immediatly at a smooth 750rpm idle. I smiled and pulled it out
of the garage and onto the lawn and gave it a thorough bath. After all
was dry and the windows cleaned and the leather wiped down, I gave the
key another twist and #3231 roared to life again. Off we went to the
grocery store. AC ice cold, tunes cranked up, engine purring like a
kitten, auto tranny shifting perfectly, and tons of looks from
spectators. Back from the store we came and into the garage she went.
Today I hopped in, twisted the key and off to work we went. Lunchtime
errands, no problem. Drive to the doctor's office for a checkup and
home we went. Absolutely perfect. It really made me smile knowing that
my D can fire up at will whether it sleeps for a day, a week, or a
month and be ready to go anywhere. To all of you out there who are
hard at work repairing, restoring, or even just maintaining their D's,
it can and does pay off in the end. Keep Living the Dream. I know I am.

-sean






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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 10:24:19 -0400
From: "Steve Auyer" <sauyer_at_dml_twcny.rr.com>
Subject: Rotors & Calipers Anyone?

*****  Moderator's Note  *****
Some days it's tough being a moderator...

Please respond directly to Steve.

Mike G.  moderator of the week
*****

In the process of restoring my Delorean I found that the front calipers were frozen up and I had to replace them. While 
I was at it I replaced the front rotors as well. So now I've got two front rotors and two front calipers sitting in my 
garage that I really have no use for. The calipers are frozen hard - could they be reworked? Don't know. The rotors have 
20K miles on them and aren't in bad shape.

Anyway, the first person in the states who gets me postage can have these four items for free. The four items together 
weigh 40# so they will probably be sent as four separate packages. You can go to http://postcalc.usps.gov/ to calculate 
the Priority Mail cost from ZIP 13090 to your address.

Checks for the postage should be sent to:

Steve Auyer
3925 Cloverfield Circle
Liverpool, NY  13090

If you do send me a check for the postage, please enclose an SASE so that if you're not the first, I can return your 
check to you. 






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Message: 8
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 04:45:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Watkins <outatime81_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: struts

I guess the strut experiment cannot be done with any accuracy as I have been using Grady struts for 6 years with none of the results you are getting.
 
I believe, that there is alot of guess work in the torsion bar adjustment vs. strut power etc... Mine have been "tuned" for the Grady struts by Rob for my climate (Maine). So perhaps this is why I am not seeing the same thing  you are.  Again, I'm in Maine in moderate climate.  If I lived in Florida or a Southern State would I see different results with Rob's struts?  Maybe...I dunno.......But with hotter temps comes torsion bar variances as well....so it's all a crap shoot in my opinion.
 
I don't think we can get a real definitive on this other than people's preference and opinion.  I found DMCH struts to be overpowered and slammed at the top.....maybe if my torsion bars were adjusted to them they would be fine....who's to say?  I don't do my own T-Bar adjust so I decided that it wasn't worth experimenting with other struts.  I'm sure there are plenty of owners using DMCH struts that are very pleased with them.
 
My opinion.......don't waste your time and money on this experiment as I believe there are far too many variables from owner to owner that cannot be taken into account.   A southern California car torsion bar & strut are going to act ALOT different than mine here in the North East.  
 
 

		
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
 Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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Message: 9
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 14:00:10 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Cracked Windshield

Look in a local phone book in the yellow pages under "glass". In just
about any large city there should be several that advertise repair of
glass. Not all cracks can be repaired. They use a suction cup that
holds an injector syringe with clear epoxy against the glass and that
is injected directly into the crack and into the layers of glass. It
costs around $50 and no guarantees. They come to your house or have
drive-in service. They also do chip repair, as in a rock bouncing off
the glass and chipping it. I would try it before replacing the glass.
Inspect the lower edge carefully and you may see where a small chunk
(chip) was knocked out. That is where the crack started. The chip is
from improper handling of the glass. I know I was careful handling my
glass and the installer was also very careful. It had to have happened
before I got mine and I picked it up at Rob's just so it wouldn't get
damaged in shipping from him to me. It must have happened before he
got it. From your picture it was hard to tell it did *NOT* start at
the clip.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757




--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Hank <heskin_at_dml_g...> wrote:
> On 5/12/05, David Teitelbaum wrote:
> >It might just be a coincidence that it was just where the clip is. 
> 
> If you look at my crack (sorry, no pun intended), you'll see that the
> crack starts just to the right of the clip and not *at* the clip.
> 
> And where might I find a shop that does "invisible epoxy" repairs?  Is
> there something specific I can ask if they do it?
> 
> Thanks,
> -Hank






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Message: 10
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 14:10:32 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: just some good news for a change

It is very detrimental to a lead-acid battery to become fully
discharged. Think of it like a cat. You used up one of it's lives and
there is now less "life" left in it. This causes a battery to age
prematurely. You should try NEVER to let a lead-acid battery fully go
"dead". It is much better to disconnect it with a master switch and it
should be trickle-charged for a day once a month. If the car isn't
being used for an extended period of time the battery should be
removed. Even with good care a lead-acid battery is not good for more
than 5 years. By then it is at less than 50% capacity. Batteries are
not like sponges. You cannot take it all out and put it all back and
not affect it's storage capacity. Anyway, enjoying our cars is what it
is all about! 
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "sweitzel_2000" <sweitzel_at_dml_l...> wrote:
> This board is priceless in the amount of information that can be had
> to help us all solve problems with our D's and thus is mostly filled
>  can and does pay off in the end. Keep Living the Dream. I know I am.
> 
> -sean






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Message: 11
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:49:51 -0500
From: Jeff Phillips <rvparty_at_dml_gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Removing windscreen trim

What type of metal are these made of?  Over time don't you think
they'll tarnish and look bad?  This would be a good part for someone
to produce in stainless!

Jeff
#10544

On 5/12/05, Richard <dmc_driver_at_dml_yahoo.ca> wrote:
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> > I have seen some of these that the paint had completely come off,
> and it
> > looked pretty good as silver metal. So if you decide not to paint, try
> > giving them a polish!
> > -VB
> 
> As a matter of fact, that's exactly what i did.  I used fine-grit
> sandpaper to "regrain" them in the same direction as the rest of the
> car and am quite impressed with the way it looks.  I always wondered
> why these things were painted in the first place anyway.
> 
> Richard Rowe
> Vin 5853
> 
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> 
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com
> 
> To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
>




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Message: 12
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 11:16:31 -0500
From: Warren Wallingford <warren_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Removing windscreen trim

The reveals are aluminum, (aluminium to you, Martin).  New header 
panels-painted, part #101418, are $146.64.  The side pieces, called 
finishers, are part #s 100673 and 100674.  They cost $43.47 each.
Warren at DMC



Jeff Phillips wrote:
> What type of metal are these made of?  Over time don't you think
> they'll tarnish and look bad?  This would be a good part for someone
> to produce in stainless!
> 
> Jeff
> #10544
> 
> On 5/12/05, Richard <dmc_driver_at_dml_yahoo.ca> wrote:
> 
[moderator snip]




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Message: 13
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 17:10:41 -0000
From: "Jim Reeve" <dmc6960_at_dml_gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Removing windscreen trim

They already are stainless steel!  That is why some people have
already done it with good results.  I'm more of a contrast guy though,
I prefer it black.

Jim Reeve
MNDMC - Minnesota DeLorean Club
DMC6960

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Jeff Phillips <rvparty_at_dml_g...> wrote:
> What type of metal are these made of?  Over time don't you think
> they'll tarnish and look bad?  This would be a good part for someone
> to produce in stainless!
> 
> Jeff
> #10544







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Message: 14
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 17:08:15 -0000
From: "Matt Spittle" <supermatty_at_dml_psu.edu>
Subject: Re: Removing windscreen trim

These pieces are made of aluminum.  I have seen cars with these left
unpainted, and then there's my car (and I'm sure others) who have
coated them black; either with paint, powdercoat, or anodizing.  I
really prefer the black look because it helps to blend with the door
seals, but if you prefer silver, I would probably get SOME kind of
coating applied to the metal because it will begin to show
oxidation/stains after a period of time.  Just look at the "uncoated"
parts of your aluminum engine.

Matt
#1604


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Jeff Phillips <rvparty_at_dml_g...> wrote:
> What type of metal are these made of?  Over time don't you think
> they'll tarnish and look bad?  This would be a good part for someone
> to produce in stainless!
> 
> Jeff
> #10544
>






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Message: 15
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 16:22:37 -0000
From: "Dave" <v-davidj_at_dml_microsoft.com>
Subject: Re: Removing windscreen trim

They appear to be made out of aluminum.  I began polishing mine to a
mirror finish, and then decided I didn't like the way it looked.  It
never rusted or tarnished over the years.

I like Richards idea of graining it...that might make it look better.
 I will give that a go and see how I like it.  I was just about to
send the pieces out to get powder coated.

Thanks!
Dave Jacobs

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Jeff Phillips <rvparty_at_dml_g...> wrote:
> What type of metal are these made of?  Over time don't you think
> they'll tarnish and look bad?  This would be a good part for someone
> to produce in stainless!
> 
> Jeff
> #10544
> 
[moderator snip]




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Message: 16
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 18:40:34 -0000
From: "secret_jedi_guy" <secret_jedi_guy_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Flushing coolant system

Hello again,  I need to flush the coolant system.  It has been about 3k 
miles since that last time and I found out last night that there was no 
coolant in the tank after I nearly overheated.

I was wondering where I could get a good coolant flush kit and I was 
also wondering if I need to remove the thermostat in order to do it. If 
so, where is it and how would I go about doing that.

I have replaced all the coolant hoses, and I have the SS coolant tank.

Thanks

Japheth VIN: 1223






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Message: 17
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 15:20:53 -0400
From: <rob_at_dml_pjgrady.com>
Subject: RE: struts

Hi Tom,

You bring up a very good and often overlooked point. The lift piston is just
1/3rd of a three part equation with all parts being roughly equal but very
different. The parts are as follows.

1. Lift Piston

2. Torsion Bar Initial Preload

3. Ambient Temperature (assuming you're outdoors)

It is difficult to do a valid comparison without the numbers one and two
being identical. For instance Rustproof VIN 1559 said (What's wrong with
using a real name?) that he set the torsion bar unaided pre-load (No piston)
to the "proper "hang" point". Who told him this? I would have told him 3" to
5" is the proper preload for any new piston. 20" should be sufficient to
catapult the person opening the door over to the passenger side of the car
not to mention damaging the roof support structure! Since he's conducting a
"test" it would be advisable to contact the supplier for proper set-up or
installation information. His doors would fly up with any new lift piston.
Each notch on a torsion bar equals about 5% of the total charge. Much more
than 2 notches, equal to two incremental adjustments, and you run the risk
of bending the roof support structure, which is why most lift pistons should
be changed every three to five years. I could talk about lift pistons and
DeLorean doors for hours as I consider it my "sub-specialty" but I have to
head out of town for the weekend so no more boring lecture for now.

Thank you,

Rob Grady
-----Original Message-----
From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com] On Behalf of
Tom Watkins
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 7:46 AM
To: DMC News
Subject: [DML] struts

I guess the strut experiment cannot be done with any accuracy as I have been
using Grady struts for 6 years with none of the results you are getting.
 
I believe, that there is alot of guess work in the torsion bar adjustment
vs. strut power etc... Mine have been "tuned" for the Grady struts by Rob
for my climate (Maine). So perhaps this is why I am not seeing the same
thing  you are.  Again, I'm in Maine in moderate climate.  If I lived in
Florida or a Southern State would I see different results with Rob's struts?
Maybe...I dunno.......But with hotter temps comes torsion bar variances as
well....so it's all a crap shoot in my opinion.
 
I don't think we can get a real definitive on this other than people's
preference and opinion.  I found DMCH struts to be overpowered and slammed
at the top.....maybe if my torsion bars were adjusted to them they would be
fine....who's to say?  I don't do my own T-Bar adjust so I decided that it
wasn't worth experimenting with other struts.  I'm sure there are plenty of
owners using DMCH struts that are very pleased with them.
 
My opinion.......don't waste your time and money on this experiment as I
believe there are far too many variables from owner to owner that cannot be
taken into account.   A southern California car torsion bar & strut are
going to act ALOT different than mine here in the North East.  
 
 

		
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
 Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
Yahoo! Groups Links



 



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Message: 18
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 14:05:50 -0700
From: Ryan Wright <ryanpwright_at_dml_gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Cooling fan fell off the motor shaft

On 5/12/05, David Teitelbaum <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net> wrote:
> any case the general consensus is that you should remove the radiator
> anyway to at least inspect it and/or replace it. 

Oh, absolutely. If it's original, you might as well just replace it
while you're under there. If you don't you'll get to pull everything
apart again in a few months when Murphy's law kicks in and the
radiator dumps your coolant all over the freeway.

> It is difficult to
> juggle the fan shroud with the fans, the radiator, and the condensor
> coil when you are underneath with anti-freeze dripping down your arms.

Well, the whole point of not removing the radiator is leaving the
hoses connected. When I swapped mine, I didn't get a single drop of
anti-freeze because I didn't disconnect the radiator. If you have to
disconnect the hoses you might as well just take the radiator out with
the fans at that point.

> without taking the fan shroud out of the car. In any case it is just
> good practice on a 20 year old car to do what needs to be done in
> whatever area you are taking apart. That is unless you are trying to
> keep your costs down and "cheap out". This means replacing the hoses,
> radiator, anti-freeze, and brushes inside the fan motors.

I can't argue with that.

-Ryan




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Message: 19
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 17:04:35 -0400
From: Holler <thehauntfactory_at_dml_att.net>
Subject: Barris DeLorean Auction

Kermit wrote: "The car's description refers to it having functional 
strobe lighting on
the bottom of the car....I'm presuming this to be the effect used at the
end of the first movie>"

I wasn't going to respond to this thread, but for some reason, people 
have a need to believe that somehow, Barris did build a car for the BTTF 
films, despite the filmmakers absolute statements to the contrary.

I've met George Barris.  He has been known to allow others to 'Presume' 
in order to prolong his early success into the autumn of his life.

The lucky winner of this 'special' DeLorean will also get disco rope 
lights wired up all over, and functional bicycle reflectors screwed onto 
the body, on either side of the genuine aluminum dryer hose. 
'Presumably' all added for the Part IV underwater scenes.:)

The Barris DeLoreans are far from representational of his skills as a 
customizer.  They are surprisingly amateurish, which creates a mystery 
for his fans, and a source of unkind jokes for BTTF fans.
To further the confusion, 'misrepresentation' from either Barris or 
reporters seems to run rampant in regards to these particular cars.

To reiterate: George Barris had NOTHING to do with the Back To The 
Future movies.

Oliver
10694





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