From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2664
Date: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 7:27 AM

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. RE: Water Pump Controversy
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

2. AC compressors or parts
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

3. 20053 for sale... Eatontown, NJ
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

4. Re: DeLorean Owners Association offer
From: "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>

5. Re: Cruise control - no joy!
From: Ryan Wright <ryanpwright_at_dml_gmail.com>

6. Re: DMC (Texas) Operating Hours and Open House Info
From: "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>

7. Performance Suspension
From: Tom Watkins <outatime81_at_dml_yahoo.com>

8. Re: DMC (Texas) Open House Info
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>

9. Re: Painted Red
From: "lingolor" <rlingo_at_dml_midsouth.rr.com>

10. Shade Tree Mechanic
From: "lingolor" <rlingo_at_dml_midsouth.rr.com>

11. Re: Replacing thermostat and coolant.
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>

12. Re: Struts Revisited
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>

13. RE: Shade Tree Mechanic
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

14. RE: A/C Problems (necessarily long)
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

15. RE: Shifter Problem
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

16. Re: DeLorean Owners Association offer
From: "John Spangler" <johnspangler_at_dml_netzero.net>

17. Re: Air Conditioning
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>

18. Re: A/C Problems (necessarily long)
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>

19. Re: Found VIN 1402 in Annapolis Maryland
From: "Joseph Molino" <foxmul_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>

20. Re: A/C High Pressure Hose
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

21. Re: Shade Tree Mechanic
From: Todd Nelson <tan5732_at_dml_rit.edu>

22. Engine Electrical Connections
From: Todd Nelson <tan5732_at_dml_rit.edu>

23. Re: A/C Problems (necessarily long)
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

24. Re: Air Conditioning
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>

25. Re: Re: A/C Problems (necessarily long)
From: "Jake Kamphoefner" <jakekamp_at_dml_sbcglobal.net>





Message: 1
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 12:43:09 -0500
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Water Pump Controversy

Bill, I'm not for sure why either, but as you can see it keeps coming up
about every other year. I could understand if the impeller was smaller or
there was an obvious difference, but there isn't. I was just pointing out
that there is a professional builder if someone wants an original for some
reason.
John


-----Original Message-----
From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
Of content22207
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 9:27 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DML] Water Pump Controversy


I've never understood the big water pump controversy. There really
isn't much of anything to go wrong inside a water pump. They are not
complicated pieces of machinery -- just a shaft that spins on some
bearings, with a pulley stuck on one end and an impeller stuck on the
other. That's it.

[moderator snip]




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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 17:50:16 -0000
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: AC compressors or parts

Group,
Just as a reminder. If anyone is needing AC parts for the DeLorean or 
any of your cars I can get them locally at one of the warehouses here 
in Dallas. It looks like were into a long hot summer.
John Hervey








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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:29:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: 20053 for sale... Eatontown, NJ


Follow up to:

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DMCForum/message/26365

20053 is at a used car lot in Eatontown, NJ. 

Engine started right up, and ran smooth.  I let it
idle for 5 min (it is 85+ here in NJ today) and all
was fine.  Took it for a ride, and it shifted well. 
It sounds like it needs a new steering column bushing.
 The AC compressor was running, as was the blower fan
but no air (common problem).

The frame has some rust under the engine cradle, and
the front crumple tube.  The rear can be fixed, but
the front is questionable and may need a replacement
crumple zone.

Odometer says about 26K, but car looks more worn than
that. Needs new seats, dash and binnacle. The
windshield pillars and headliner could use replacement
too. . Front and Rear fascias were repainted, they are
the wrong color (too light).

Stainless looked good on quick inspection. No
noticeable dents or scratches.

Engine has some aluminum oxidation, and there is
evidence of recent work (gasket goo on the valve
covers). 

Asking price is $13K, he told me to make an offer
which I declined to do (I am out of garage space!). It
is on consignment (so they say).  I'd say the car is
worth $6K-$8K.  Decent project car. Maybe Ken needs to
save another DeLorean from Neglect??  :)

Front license plate had a PJ Grady plastic frame, so
Rob may have details on this car.. If you are
interested in buying.

5 speed, Grey. Located in Eatontown, New Jersey. (Knut
can add it to the production list.. )



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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 18:42:41 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: Re: DeLorean Owners Association offer

Being a member of the DOA, nor patronizing Ed Bernstein's D1 shop out 
in Chatsworth has never been taboo to talk about, nor 
participate/shop in. In fact, there are many DML'ers here who remain 
loyal to both, and have continued to participate in this list. And a 
few DOA members have pitched their products here as well, and 
everyone was cool with that. So I don't understand why anyone would 
think these two subjects to be taboo.

Sure, we all have our own political views, but focusing on networking 
all of our knowlege together here on the list, so that others can 
share in it as well. That has always been a high priority on the DML, 
rather than trying to validate our personal opinions. Sure we 
disagree, but when no common ground can be reached, we all at least 
agree to disagree.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "deloreanpat" <deloreanpat_at_dml_y...> 
wrote:
<SNIP>
> 
> I've been reading for a few years...I never posted because I'm a 
> member of the DOA and a customer of D1.  For whatever reason, these 
> seem to be great taboos on this list, so I prefer not to be 
> particularly public.  I don't care much for the politics.
> 
> There seems to be some restructuring going on with the DOA.  I had 
> my car in with Ed recently and he says he resigned from the DOA 
> board to focus on his business.  There's some new young blood too.  
> It may be a great time to get involved.






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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:59:48 -0700
From: Ryan Wright <ryanpwright_at_dml_gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Cruise control - no joy!

>> Ryan, you mentioned in earlier posts when you were trying to get
>> your unit working that you had insufficient vacuum. What were you
>> readings and how did you fix it? I am tied in at the location you
>> suggested on your site.

My vacuum problem was due to initially tying into the wrong vacuum
line. I tapped into a line going to the charcoal canister by mistake,
the cruise worked at first but then later did not. Turns out that line
isn't under vacuum all of the time -- oops. So I found the "real"
vacuum line, which is the big line going into the left pontoon (by
itself). After changing that the cruise worked flawlessly.

You can test for a vacuum problem with a hand held pump. I paid about
$20 or so for mine at Schuck's. I hooked it up to the cruise, ran the
line through the firewall into the passenger compartment, pumped the
sucker up and went for a drive. The cruise worked fine like this, so I
knew vacuum was my problem. If you suspect a vacuum problem this is a
great test.

Also double check your dip switches... 

-Ryan

On 6/6/05, Marty Galbreath <marty_at_dml_mediamergeinc.com> wrote:
> I installed the Audiovox ccs-100 on my D, following Ryan's great
> site and the included instructions. Tried it out, didn't work.
> Checked everything according to the manual, all voltages present at
> the correct pins, connection to coil Ohm-ed out, vacuum connected to
> the large hose that enters the left pontoon, air gap at the pickut
> 1/8", but I didn't get the flashes of the LED in the control unit
> when each signal was tried. So I called audiovox and they said it
> was probably bad. Called Brand's Place for a return and ordered
> another. Found out from the manager there that several units of the
> ccs-100 have been returned as defective recently. I ordered another
> anyway and installed it on my D.
> 
> This time, I see very faint flashes of the LED, but still no
> operation. The serial number of the new unit is far removed from
> that of the first one I tried, so I had high hopes that if there
> were a series of bad units, I would now have a good one.
> 
> Ryan, you mentioned in earlier posts when you were trying to get
> your unit working that you had insufficient vacuum. What were you
> readings and how did you fix it? I am tied in at the location you
> suggested on your site.
> 
> I am about to order the Dakota Digital electronic cruise control
> that uses the spedometer cable to control the speed and requires no
> vacuum. Has anyone on the list used one of these successfully? It is
> $250 vs $80 for the Audiovox, but I really wanted to get this
> working before the LOOONG drive to Houston Thursday.
> 
> Any help will be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Marty Galbreath
> #3765
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> 
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com
> 
> To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>




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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 18:47:47 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <dmcvegas_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: Re: DMC (Texas) Operating Hours and Open House Info

So where would be the best place to go to get my registratin packet? 
Should I swing by Hotel Sofitel? Or wait until I get to DMCH, since I 
am staying at another location?

(Don't get me wrong, Sofitel looks like a classy place, and I trust 
DMCH's reccomendation. But I put free high-speed internet access & a 
business desk in my hotel room as a high priority, and since they 
didn't offer either...)

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, James Espey <james_at_dml_u...> wrote:
> In preparation for the DMC (Texas) 2005 Open House Event, we will 
have 
> slightly altered hours this week.
> 
> Monday - Wednesday ... 8:00am - 5:30pm
> 
> Thursday - Friday  ... Showroom will be closed to the public, but 
phones 
> will be answered and orders, including web orders, will be 
processed as 
> usual. Emergency parts pickup at the Humble location will be 
handled as 
> required, call and speak with Warren for this.
> 
> -------------------
> 
> Open House attendees may pick up Registration Packets at the Hotel 
> Sofitel from 2:00pm  to 5:00pm Friday afternoon. Registration 
packets 
> will also be available for pickup Friday evening at the Humble 
location 
> beginning when the doors open at 6:30pm.
> 
> Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> James Espey
> 
> ------------------------------------
> DeLorean Motor Company
> Vice President
> james_at_dml_d...
> 15023 Eddie Drive
> Humble, Texas 77396 USA
> tel: 800/872-3621
> tel2:281/441-2537
> fax: 281/441-2813
> http://www.delorean.com
> ------------------------------------







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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 13:20:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Watkins <outatime81_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Performance Suspension

All,
 
Bought DMCH suspension and want to try to install myself.  I will have some help from experienced mechanics.  Is there anything about this install that is odd/wierd/DeLorean specific that I should look out for?
 
Does the car need to be aligned after this install?  Is there any shimming or measurements that are done?  With the adjustable collar is there a good ride point that most use or is it personal preference?
 
I would have Rob install it but the chances of getting back to NY this year are small.   Again I will have the help from someone who is a really good mechanic but I always am unsure about anyone but a DMC vendor working on my car.
 
Thanks
 
Tom Watkins
#005732

		
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Discover Yahoo!
 Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing & more. Check it out!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 19:58:15 -0000
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>
Subject: Re: DMC (Texas) Open House Info

James,

I called Warren earlier today to ask if he knew the times for the
cart event on Sunday and he said he did not know the exact times.

I was just curious to know the general times, so I could plan in
advance what to do on Sunday: check out before or after the event,
take my luggage with to the event, plan on leaving from the event
(after or early) and go directly to the airport, etc.

I know it is not an issue for many people with fixed time flights,
but since my sister works for United and I need to be listed for
specific flights on standby, I just wanted to know if I should plan
for a 3pm flight, 6pm flight or 8pm flight.

Thanks,
Rich W.


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, James Espey <james_at_dml_u...> wrote:
> In preparation for the DMC (Texas) 2005 Open House Event, we will 
have 
> slightly altered hours this week.
> 
> Open House attendees may pick up Registration Packets at the Hotel 
> Sofitel from 2:00pm  to 5:00pm Friday afternoon. Registration 
packets 
> will also be available for pickup Friday evening at the Humble 
location 
> beginning when the doors open at 6:30pm.
> 
> Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> James Espey








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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 22:38:45 -0000
From: "lingolor" <rlingo_at_dml_midsouth.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Painted Red

Thank you for the info. As soon as I get this thing running I will 
start on the paint removal process.  Glad to know it can be removed 
with paint remover from Wal-Mart. Sounds alot less expensive than 
other alternatives, ie. taking it to a body shop to have it sanded 
off.

Lingo #02034



 --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Jason Sisto" <wizard_at_dml_t...> wrote:
> Lingo:
>  
> Check out http://www.sk1pper.com/paint_removal.htm  The guy is 
pretty knowledgable about paint removal.  I agree with David, use the 
paint remover (aircarft brand from WalMart works good).  I also have 
a red Delorean and will be removing the paint.  I did a test on a GM 
fender I got from a junk yard and found out several things...1) make 
sure you do it outside or where there is great ventalation; 2) AVOID 
any rubber parts..removal all panels (except doors) to be safe; 3) 
make sure you do it on a surface that you do not care about because 
the paint removed will stain concrete, wood, etc.
>  
> Good Luck!!
>  
> Jason
> 
> 	-----Original Message----- 
> 	From: David Teitelbaum [mailto:jtrealty_at_dml_w...] 
> 	Sent: Sun 6/5/2005 1:44 AM 
> 	To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com 
> 	Cc: 
> 	Subject: [DML] Re: Painted Red
> 	
> 	
> 
> 	There are 4 ways to remove paint. You can sand it off, you 
can blast
> 	it off with different kinds of media and you can chemicaly 
dissolve
> 	it. It can also be burnt off but it is not very practical. 
The method







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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 22:48:20 -0000
From: "lingolor" <rlingo_at_dml_midsouth.rr.com>
Subject: Shade Tree Mechanic

I'm having trouble getting my oil drain plug and transmission plug 
removed. I can't figure which size or which kind of tool to use to 
remove the oil.  Also, the transmission drain plug is locked tight. So 
tight in fact, that I stripped the plug after working on it for two 
hours.  It will not budge.  What can I do to get the cars fluids 
changed?  Suggestions appreciated.

Lingo #02034







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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 00:19:41 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Replacing thermostat and coolant.

What you describe is the symptom of air in the system. I'm surprised 
that you didn't find you were low on coolant at the bottle because, 
if circulation stopped and restarted that means coolant displaced 
the air - for a while at least. Are you sure the bleeder hoses are 
connected properly? One problem you'll have, if the system was 
drained enough to evacuate the block, is that air can get trapped in 
the heads. This can take a long time to eliminate. A "nose" downhill 
attitude for a while with the engine running helps displace this air.

BTW, you do not need to remove the intake to change the thermostat.

There are lots of tech notes and help sites on this topic - just do 
a search and you will find them.

Harold McElraft - 3354


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "sweetp01569" <paul.sweet_at_dml_f...> 
wrote:
> My car overheated on Saturday, dumping a lot of coolant in my 
> driveway through the overflow.  I ordered a new thermostat, and 
have 
> two new left and right main hoses to replace the existing spongy 
> ones.  I am also waiting for the stainless overflow bottle to 
> arrive.  I want all the parts together before I take apart.  I 
think 
> I also need to order the gasket/s for the air intake manifold, as 
> that needs to come off to replace the thermostat.  Not sure if the 
> thermostat is bad, but since I am taking it out to check, I might 
as 
> well replace.  The waterpump seems fine, and is dry and quiet.
> 
[moderator snip]




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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 00:30:11 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Struts Revisited

Cylinder at the top or door mount - shaft on the car body. It makes 
a difference in the long-run as to how the shaft and seal is 
lubricated. I'm surprised the instructions didn't indicate this.

Harold McElraft - 3354



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Scot Stern" <Scotstern_at_dml_a...> wrote:
> I wanted to share with you my recent experience regarding new 
struts 
> and then ask a question.
> 
> I recently started an email dialog with Toby concerning struts and 
I 
> purchased two of his temperature compensated struts primarily to 
try 
> something different and to be covered by his lifetime warranty.  
They 
> seemed like a good investment.
> 
> The communication was excellent, the shipment was fast and they 
arrived 
> via US Postal Service well packaged.  The shipping charges were 
totally 
> reasonable, so all-in-all it was a favorable experience.
> 
> I installed them on the Delorean and here are my findings:
> 
> The torsion bars appeared to be similar on both sides in that 
without a 
> strut installed on the door, if they were gently lowered, they 
would 
> stay open about 2 to 3 inches measured at the bottom.  Since this 
was 
> the "bottom" of the spec I was worried that I might have 
to "adjust" 
> them in order to get the new struts to function properly.
> 
> I installed the new struts on both doors and they both reacted in 
the 
> same way.  They go all of the way up with a strong action and if 
left 
> alone, they "bounce" slightly that the top end of the travel.
> 
[moderator snip]




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Message: 13
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 19:48:03 -0500
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Shade Tree Mechanic

Lingo, If you want to make a tool I can loan you one of the originals and I
would suggest you replace them with the plugs with a 17mm head.
John Hervey
www.specialtauto.com


-----Original Message-----
From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
Of lingolor
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 4:48 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Shade Tree Mechanic


I'm having trouble getting my oil drain plug and transmission plug
removed. I can't figure which size or which kind of tool to use to
remove the oil.  Also, the transmission drain plug is locked tight. So
tight in fact, that I stripped the plug after working on it for two
hours.  It will not budge.  What can I do to get the cars fluids
changed?  Suggestions appreciated.

Lingo #02034







To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
Yahoo! Groups Links











________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 14
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 19:52:19 -0500
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: A/C Problems (necessarily long)

Jake, What is the outside temp and is the vacuum door closing or not closing
so your on Normal or Max.
John Hervey



-----Original Message-----
From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
Of Jake Kamphoefner
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 11:38 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] A/C Problems (necessarily long)


All,

A/C experts, please read!  I've got a really strange issue with my air
conditioner that I'd like to properly diagnose before I go replacing more
parts.  This is a long post, but I wanted to include all the relevant info:

Since I bought 1063, the A/C has always "worked", but the air is never as
cool as it should be.  I've also noticed excessive sweating of the
evaporator core, even after cleaning the drain out with compressed air.  The
most peculiar thing: my compressor never cycles off.  As soon as I hit the
mode switch to any A/C position, both my cooling fans and my compressor turn
on, and *never* turn off unless I turn the mode switch to vent or above.
This includes, idling, on the highway, cool days, hot days, etc.

[moderator snip]




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Message: 15
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 19:53:57 -0500
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Shifter Problem

Mark, Check the shifting Pivot bolt in the frame section where the
accumulator is.
John Hervey
www.specialtauto.com




-----Original Message-----
From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
Of DMCVIN6683
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 10:56 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Shifter Problem


I was coming to a turn and stopped and threw the car in 1st gear and
then noticed the shifter felt funny. I drove a few feet pushed in the
clutch and the shifter felt like it wasn't attached to the linkage. I
let go of the clutch and let the car roll in 1st gear and tried to pull
it out of first gear with out pushing in the clutch and i couldnt. The
shifter moved everywhere it should like 2nd 3rd 4th and 5th but the
tranny stayed in 1st gear and the shifter felt sloppy.

I was a block away from home so i drove home. I got to my driveway and
decided to see if reverse worked and it did so i backed into the
driveway, stopped and noticed my shifter felt normal again and all of
my gears were back when i shifted it.

Does anybody know what could of happened?

Mark V






To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
Yahoo! Groups Links












________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 16
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 01:17:45 -0000
From: "John Spangler" <johnspangler_at_dml_netzero.net>
Subject: Re: DeLorean Owners Association offer

> that's only
> around $3.00 per issue, and I think that is a bargain!
> So it looks like I just became a 3-year member of the DOA!
> 
> Great, now I have a whole new group of DeLorean owners who can reject me
> and ridicule me! I should fit in just fine.
> - Videobob

VB-

I'm seriously thinking this one over too, though I have all the
magazines since 1994 (about 45 or so) and I wouldn't quite know what
to do with 'em if I got another set that included those.

-Steelskin







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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 01:12:39 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Air Conditioning

I would suggest a couple of things if one has a system completely 
down and going for R-12. (BTW it is a FEDERAL crime to release R-12 
into the air intentionally - thus the need for special equipment.)

If a system has been restored and can hold a vacuum of say 29.13 In. 
Hg you are probably safe to then charge.(29.13 is the boiling point 
of water at 70 F. before altitude adjustments) I'm not sure I would 
recommend pressurizing with air because a killer of AC systems is 
moisture. The accumulator has a bag in it to assist in trapping any 
residual moisture. Exposing this to air will ruin it. The vacuum 
takes moisture out.  Not just any vacuum pump can pull 29+ In Hg 
either. The vacuum pump should run for at least 50 minutes after the 
full level is reached. Most mfgrs of AC parts recommend 90 minutes. 

With a system completely open I would replace the orifice tube and 
accumulator for sure and probably the low pressure cycling switch 
too. Just add one ounce of mineral 500 refrigerant oil to the 
accumulator when you replace it. (R-12 assumed here).

The AC system is so multi dependent on everything working to get 
good cold air it is important to check fans, duct door operation, 
etc to get the max from your system.

Harold McElraft - 3354


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> 
wrote:
> It is that time of the year again when we try the A/C and it 
doesn't
> work! I got several off-list e-mails this week and in the interest 
of
> the entire list I will repeat several things. A/C work requires
> expensive, specialized tools. You MUST evacuate the system to a 
hard
> vacuum to remove ALL air (non-condensible gases)and moisture. R-12 
is
> hard to come by and it is a crime to waste it (literaly). That said
> there is still some things a DIYer can do. You can get the parts 
you
> need. You can pressure-test the system by using compressed air
> (assuming there is no pressure in the system so you are not wasting
> any refrigerent). You can remove and replace parts in preparation 
for
> the A/C shop assuming you can make prior arrangements. You can
> electrically test the system and repair as necessary ahead of time.
> You should insist that the shop checks the oil fill and even 
replaces
> it. They should replace the service valve cores and any missing 
caps.
> They should pressure-test, sweep charge, and then vacuum for at 
least
> 1/2 hour, an hour is better. Fill with a measured charge and
> performance test, adjusting the low pressure switch if needed. If 
the
> system has ben dead for a long time you "should" replace the dryer.
> One of the more common parts to fail besides the service valve 
cores
> to slowly leak is the discharge hose. It is the hose that runs from
> the compressor to the condensor core in front of the radiator. On 
A/C
> systems the rule is to do as little and to disturb as little of the
> system as you can. If a joint is not leaking it is not considered 
good
> practice to replace the seal "just because". The chances of 
damaging
> the joint are too high. In general you have to be VERY CAREFUL with
> the fittings. You wind up using large wrenches because the fittings
> are big but you are working with aluminum so it can twist and break
> very easily.
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757







________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 18
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 01:23:23 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: A/C Problems (necessarily long)

Here is the clue to your problem -

"The system held vacuum for a long time (about -29) so there don't 
appear to be any leaks. Then as soon as I started the car, with a 
completely empty and vacuumed down system, the compressor was 
already cycled on, non stop! We went ahead and recharged with 2.2 
lbs of fresh R-12, with no change in operation whatsoever."

There is a direct connect to the clutch via the switch some how not 
through the low-pressure cycling switch. The compressor should not 
have come on here. If you trace the wire you will find a short or 
probably an incorrect mod or reinstall.

The clutch has been taken out of the low-pressure circuit.

Harold McElraft - 3354


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Jake Kamphoefner <jakekamp_at_dml_s...> 
wrote:
> All,
>  
> A/C experts, please read!  I've got a really strange issue with my 
air conditioner that I'd like to properly diagnose before I go 
replacing more parts.  This is a long post, but I wanted to include 
all the relevant info:
>  
> Since I bought 1063, the A/C has always "worked", but the air is 
never as cool as it should be.  I've also noticed excessive sweating 
of the evaporator core, even after cleaning the drain out with 
compressed air.  The most peculiar thing: my compressor never cycles 
off.  As soon as I hit the mode switch to any A/C position, both my 
cooling fans and my compressor turn on, and *never* turn off unless 
I turn the mode switch to vent or above.  This includes, idling, on 
the highway, cool days, hot days, etc.
>  
> I've got records for the car back to 1983.  The work was all done 
by Steger and includes a new NOS compressor (about 5 years ago) with 
all new A/C hoses.  As far as I can tell, the accumulator bottle, 
evaporator, and condenser are all stock, but appear in excellent 
condition.
>  
> I stopped using the A/C because I didn't want to overwork the 
compressor or those circuits, but here's what I've tried to do to 
fix it in chronological order:
>  
> 1.  I sniffed another bottle of R-12 in the system, after someone 
suggested I might be low on freon.  No change.
>  
> 2.  I put gages on it and found that my low side pressure was 
dipping into the low teens, while my high side was blowing up way 
over 300 when the car was revved.  The low pressure switch never 
kicked off the compressor, so I pulled the plug off the low pressure 
switch and everything stops as it should.  So I replaced the low 
pressure switch.  No change, everything on.  Then I tried adjusting 
the switch to the extremes (both directions) with no change.  I even 
switched it out with a known good switch with no change.  Rob Grady 
suggested that I may have a restriction in the system and suggested 
I replace the accumulator bottle and orifice tube.  So....
>  
> 3.  I bought a new bottle and orifice tube.  I evacuated the 
system replaced the bottle and orifice tube without damaging any 
fittings (thank God this car was from California...).  The old 
orifice tube had a few particles of black gunk on it, but was 
actually very clean overall.  Then I vacuumed it all down for a long 
time.  The system held vacuum for a long time (about -29) so there 
don't appear to be any leaks.  Then as soon as I started the car, 
with a completely empty and vacuumed down system, the compressor was 
already cycled on, non stop!  We went ahead and recharged with 2.2 
lbs of fresh R-12, with no change in operation whatsoever.  The 
compressor is still constantly on and the temperature out of my 
vents was only about 59 or 60 degrees.  Never any colder.
>  
> 4.  Then we suspected an electrical problem.  I got out the wiring 
diagram and found that my wiring appears to be all stock, with no 
modifications.  Pulling fuse 10 shuts it all off as it should (we 
tried this because we thought we might be getting some kind of 
feedback from the fuse 5 circuit).  We also tried replacing the 
diode in the electrical compartment (the one between pink and 
black/orange, I think?) shown on the wiring diagram with no change.  
However, this car has never been fitted with a high pressure switch, 
but it is my understanding that a missing high pressure switch 
shouldn't cause this weird problem.
>  
> The car makes all the right sounds (except cycling):  I hear 
the "woosh" of freon through the evaporator core, the bottle sweats, 
the evaporator core is cold and the drain drains, the compressor is 
quiet and the clutch for it engages smoothly.  My blower motor is a 
quiet NOS that blows a high volume of air, and I have no melting of 
any fuses in the electrical compartment.  Also, the mode switch 
appears to be in excellent condition, and I don't believe there are 
any leaks in vacuum; all air is directed quickly to the right 
spots,  I've also verified a tight fit of the foam on the back of 
the evaporator core.  The condenser is clean and still has almost 
all of it's paint.  My cooling fans work great and flow in the 
proper direction.  I've also verified that my heater core valve is 
closed.
>  
> Ok, so do you have any suggestions for me?  I'm ready to do or buy 
anything at this point to get the thing to work right.  Does this 
sound like there is still a restriction some where?  Could I have 
some internal compressor damage?  Any help you can give is greatly 
appreciated.  Right now I'm leaning toward an evaporator 
replacement, but I hear it's an awful job.  Maybe I can hire Dave 
Strangand to put my car back together after replacing the evap.  :-)
>  
> Thanks a lot!
>  
> Jake Kamphoefner
> 1063 in Southern IL
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 19
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 21:31:41 -0400
From: "Joseph Molino" <foxmul_at_dml_bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Found VIN 1402 in Annapolis Maryland

is that car listed in the chrono order?  does anyone know what happened?  is 
it abandoned?

josephm
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Packodenton_at_dml_aol.com>
To: <DMCForum_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>; <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 11:41 PM
Subject: [DML] Found VIN 1402 in Annapolis Maryland


>
> Hello Gentleman:
>
> Went to the Naval Base Store (near US Naval Academy) here in Annapolis to
> purchase a new Stainless Steel Weber Grill. When I finished putting the 
> grill in
> the trunk, I saw a DeLorean sitting in the parking lot.
>
> VIN 1402, black interior, 5 speed, wide stripe,  with some kind of
> aftermarket stripe.  It was from New Jersey, flat tires all around, broken 
> dashboard
> and all kind of junk & trash in the interior. When I inquired  about the 
> car,
> the staff at the store said that the car had been there for a  long time.
>
> Apparently, the staff has been keeping an eye on the car as everyone comes
> to take their picture with it.
>
> Sincerely,
> Michael Pack
>
> NOTE:   THIS DOCUMENT MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND NONPUBLIC INFORMATION. 
> IT
> IS  INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL(S) OR ENTITY(IES) NAMED
> ABOVE, AND  OTHERS SPECIFICALLY AUTHORIZED TO RECEIVE IT.  If you are not 
> the
> intended  recipient of this document, you are notified that any review,
> dissemination,  distribution or copying of this communication is 
> prohibited.  If you have
> received this communication in error, please notify me immediately by 
> return
> email, delete the electronic message and destroy any printed copies. 
> Thank
> you for your cooperation.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see 
> www.dmcnews.com
>
> To search the archives or view files, log in at 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 







________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 20
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 02:23:28 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: A/C High Pressure Hose

So now you want to know the "Trick"! After disconnecting both ends
stick a cork or some kind of plug into the end that went to the
condensor. Now carefully move the whole hose backwards towards the
rear of the car. The curved metal end will get caught between the body
and the frame. You need to bend the flange of the frame down to get
enough room to slide the hose through with the metal end sticking
down. You can use a large adjustable wrench to bend the flange.
Reinstall the new hose the way you get the old one out and then bend
the flange back. You can spray paint the frame and no one will every
know you bent it! Make sure to keep the ends of the hose sealed until
just before you connect it so you keep any dirt out of the hose. Use
new seals and coat them liberally with refrigerent oil. Put some
refrigerent oil on the threads too. The fittings should go all the way
up easily to hand-tight. Finish with wrenches. Be very careful not to
cross-thread. It is easy to do and you will ruin the fittings. By
drawing the fitings up hand-tight you will know quickly if it is
crossed. Do not force anything together. If it does not go together
easily take it apart and try again. Again I stress that you MUST "hold
back" so you don't twist the fitting off the condensor core. BTW
whenever you take an A/C connection apart you should immediatly cap
BOTH ends to keep moisture and dirt out. I say to put a cork into the
end of the hose so you don't drip refrigerent oil all over the place.
Go ahead, ask me how I know. Same trick (the cork) works when you do
the clutch line.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> So what is the "trick" to getting the hoses out and in again?
> -






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 21
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 23:04:23 -0400
From: Todd Nelson <tan5732_at_dml_rit.edu>
Subject: Re: Shade Tree Mechanic

I just had the same problem with the coolant plug, which is the same as the 
oil plug and many other engine plugs.  What I did was buy a short 3/8" 
socket extension ($4) and used a bench grinder to make it to a 5/16" (size 
of plug square hole) square end.  It fit perfectly in the hole and a few 
quick raps with a long ratchet, I used my torque wrench, and it came free 
with ease.  The trick is to make the tool so that it fits perfectly, if it 
wiggles even a little bit you will eventually strip out the square hole and 
may never get it out without some major work.  I would recommend this over 
buying 5/16" square stock and bending it into a wrench, any socket extension 
will be made with much stronger steel and will last forever without 
deforming.  As always, the use of penetrating oil can help, I use PB 
Blaster.

Good luck
Todd


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "lingolor" <rlingo_at_dml_midsouth.rr.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 6:48 PM
Subject: [DML] Shade Tree Mechanic


> I'm having trouble getting my oil drain plug and transmission plug
> removed. I can't figure which size or which kind of tool to use to
> remove the oil.  Also, the transmission drain plug is locked tight. So
> tight in fact, that I stripped the plug after working on it for two
> hours.  It will not budge.  What can I do to get the cars fluids
> changed?  Suggestions appreciated.
>
> Lingo #02034
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see 
> www.dmcnews.com
>
> To search the archives or view files, log in at 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> 






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 22
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 23:19:32 -0400
From: Todd Nelson <tan5732_at_dml_rit.edu>
Subject: Engine Electrical Connections

List:

I'm in the process of putting my intake manifold back on and all is going well except for one electrical connection I can't seem to remember.  I have a harness in the engine compartment with two connection slots, and I have one connection coming from the full-throttle switch which will mate with the harness, but leaves an open slot which doesn't seem right.  Can someone take a look at their car an let me know how the full-throttle switch connects and if both of the connections on the white harness are used?  Since I have done a terrible job of explaining my issue, I have posted a picture to the following link...

http://www.rit.edu/~tan5732/delorean/Connections.jpg

If you need more clarification, let me know.

Thanks,
Todd


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 23
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 04:00:15 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: A/C Problems (necessarily long)

Freon isn't being metered properly into the evaporator. That excessive
sweating is probably ice melting off its exterior. DeLorean uses a
fixed orifice system, so the compressor has to cycle on & off to meter
the freon. Only time mine doesn't cycle is upper 90's degrees outside,
especially if I'm on an interstate (no trees).

If the compressor clutch engages with a vacuum in the system, it
obviously is being left on by the low pressure switch, or you've got a
short somewhere. Did you try putting an ice pick light or multi meter
on the low pressure switch to ensure it indeed is closed?

Does anyone know if the early cars had unused high pressure harness
connectors? (Am wondering if you may have the wrong connector plugged
in, assuming they're interchangeable. It's raining outside so I can't
check mine).

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Jake Kamphoefner <jakekamp_at_dml_s...> wrote:
> All,
>  
> A/C experts, please read!  I've got a really strange issue with my
air conditioner that I'd like to properly diagnose before I go
replacing more parts.  This is a long post, but I wanted to include
all the relevant info:
>  
> Since I bought 1063, the A/C has always "worked", but the air is
never as cool as it should be.  I've also noticed excessive sweating
of the evaporator core, even after cleaning the drain out with
compressed air.  The most peculiar thing: my compressor never cycles
off.  As soon as I hit the mode switch to any A/C position, both my
cooling fans and my compressor turn on, and *never* turn off unless I
turn the mode switch to vent or above.  This includes, idling, on the
highway, cool days, hot days, etc.
>  
[moderator snip]




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 24
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 03:39:14 -0000
From: "content22207" <brobertson_at_dml_carolina.net>
Subject: Re: Air Conditioning

As the owner of several A/C systems that work perfectly, and which I
DIY myself, I respectfully disagree (about being able to work on them
yourself. Rest of the post is pretty much on target).

Pulling a vacuum is indeed essential. Magic number of 28 some odd
inches was derived at by the vacuum at which water vaporizes at
typical abient temperature (around 90 degrees as I recall). Pulling
that should 100% guarantee that no moisture remains in the system. But
the same thing can be accomplished at lower vacuum if ambient
temperature rises. Not much past 100 degrees and water vaporizes in
the lower 20 inches.

I pull my vacuum's with 460's in my Lincolns (20 or 24 inches,
depending on the model). Given underhood temperatures, that's more
than enough to yield a moisture free system if they're vacuuming
themselves. I use the high compression engine to vacuum the DeLorean.
Haven't had any moisture related problems yet. You could always zap a
system with a heat gun if you wanted to guarantee ambient temperature
was high enough, but I've never found that necessary. Systems are
usually only open long enough to replace expansion valves (Ford)
anyway. DeLorean hasn't been opened since I replaced the compressor.

Your post failed to mention inexpensive and common R-134 as a
refrigerant option. Complete charge costs less than $25.

If it isn't leaking, I wouldn't recommend disturbing the dryer. In
theory it isn't needed anyway (none of my other cars has one, nor does
my household A/C or the refrigerator).

Bill Robertson
#5939

>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> wrote:
> It is that time of the year again when we try the A/C and it doesn't
> work! I got several off-list e-mails this week and in the interest of
> the entire list I will repeat several things. A/C work requires
> expensive, specialized tools. You MUST evacuate the system to a hard
> vacuum to remove ALL air (non-condensible gases)and moisture. R-12 is
> hard to come by and it is a crime to waste it (literaly). That said
> there is still some things a DIYer can do. You can get the parts you
> need. You can pressure-test the system by using compressed air
> (assuming there is no pressure in the system so you are not wasting
> any refrigerent). You can remove and replace parts in preparation for
> the A/C shop assuming you can make prior arrangements. You can
> electrically test the system and repair as necessary ahead of time.
> You should insist that the shop checks the oil fill and even replaces
> it. They should replace the service valve cores and any missing caps.
> They should pressure-test, sweep charge, and then vacuum for at least
> 1/2 hour, an hour is better. Fill with a measured charge and
> performance test, adjusting the low pressure switch if needed. If the
> system has ben dead for a long time you "should" replace the dryer.
> One of the more common parts to fail besides the service valve cores
> to slowly leak is the discharge hose. It is the hose that runs from
> the compressor to the condensor core in front of the radiator. On A/C
> systems the rule is to do as little and to disturb as little of the
> system as you can. If a joint is not leaking it is not considered good
> practice to replace the seal "just because". The chances of damaging
> the joint are too high. In general you have to be VERY CAREFUL with
> the fittings. You wind up using large wrenches because the fittings
> are big but you are working with aluminum so it can twist and break
> very easily.
> David Teitelbaum
> vin 10757






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 25
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 00:31:14 -0500
From: "Jake Kamphoefner" <jakekamp_at_dml_sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Re: A/C Problems (necessarily long)

Thanks for the responses so far.  I'll answer both John and Harold in one 
message:

To John:
> Jake, What is the outside temp and is the vacuum door closing or not 
> closing
> so your on Normal or Max.

Yep.  It's working.  There appear to be no issues with the vacuum portion of 
the mode switch.  The temperature door and recirc door are where they should 
be.  The outside temperature was about 80 or 85, but my non-stop compressor 
will rear its ugly head even in the dead of winter if I select any A/C mode 
on the switch (Bi-level, Norm, or Max).

To Harold:
> There is a direct connect to the clutch via the switch some how not
> through the low-pressure cycling switch. The compressor should not
> have come on here. If you trace the wire you will find a short or
> probably an incorrect mod or reinstall.

This is a good suggestion, and I plan to spend Sunday tracing more wires. 
But here's the peculiar thing: when I unplug the low pressure switch, the 
compressor and fans shut off as they should.  This tells me that power to 
the compressor must be coming from the mode switch (as it should), through 
the low pressure switch (as it should) through circuit 10.  The only other 
wiring further down the line from that is the one that runs to circuit 5 
(through the diode between pink and black/orange).  If I pull fuse 5 or 
remove the link at the diode, the fans shut off, but not the compressor (as 
we would expect), and if I remove fuse 10, everything goes off (again, as 
expected).

[If anyone is actually still reading this, have a look at the wiring diagram 
and what I mention above will make sense :-)   ]

It seems to me that something is not letting the car "see" low 
ressure.  -And I've replaced and readjusted the low pressure switch to every 
extreme, including replacing the unit with one from a known-good setup.

Please keep the suggestions coming and we'll find it eventually!

Jake and 1063




[moderator snip]




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


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