From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2691
Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 10:29 AM

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: A/C gas types
From: Andrew <aos+yahoo_at_dml_boom.net>

2. Re: A/C gas types
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>

3. RE: Door switches -  buzzer and light.
From: mrvideosawyer_at_dml_netscape.net

4. Re: Re: Oil residue pooling behind foot pedals
From: AJL521_at_dml_aol.com

5. Re: Oil residue pooling behind foot pedals
From: "sweetp01569" <paul.sweet_at_dml_fmglobal.com>

6. Moo-ing Noise
From: "thebrave65" <johnny.sawyer_at_dml_gmail.com>

7. Re: Door switches - buzzer and light.
From: Ryan Wright <ryanpwright_at_dml_gmail.com>

8. RE: A/C gas types
From: "Darkstar" <darkstarmedia_at_dml_comcast.net>

9. Re: A/C gas types
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

10. Re: Door switches - buzzer and light.
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

11. Re: A/C gas types
From: Greg Zapf <x86Daddy_at_dml_gmail.com>

12. Re: Door switches - buzzer and light.
From: Greg Zapf <x86Daddy_at_dml_gmail.com>

13. Re: Oil residue pooling behind foot pedals
From: Warren Wallingford <warren_at_dml_usadmc.com>

14. Daily driver insurance - What company do you have?
From: "dgrozio" <derek.grozio_at_dml_verizon.net>

15. Re: Re: Canadian meet -Grand Bend
From: "Mike Walsh" <mike_at_dml_mikewalsh.net>

16. Re: A/C gas types
From: "Mike Walsh" <mike_at_dml_mikewalsh.net>

17. RE: A/C gas types
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

18. Re: Door switches - buzzer and light.
From: "Marv Hein" <marvhein_at_dml_hotmail.com>

19. Recent E-bay DeLoreans
From: AJL521_at_dml_aol.com

20. Passenger Mirror
From: "byrondelorean" <celiambyron_at_dml_msn.com>

21. Re: Oil residue pooling behind foot pedals
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>

22. Re: Moo-ing Noise
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

23. Re: Canadian meet -Grand Bend
From: "dgrozio" <derek.grozio_at_dml_verizon.net>

24. RE: Re: Oil residue pooling behind foot pedals
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

25. Re: A/C gas types
From: AJL521_at_dml_aol.com





Message: 1
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:50:56 -0500 (CDT)
From: Andrew <aos+yahoo_at_dml_boom.net>
Subject: Re: A/C gas types

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005, Chris Hawes wrote:

> R12:-
> + low pressure, less strain on the seals throughout the system.
> - illegal, flammable.

R12 is neither illegal nor is it flammable.  (Just because the chemical
name ends in "methane" doesn't mean it's flammable.)  It is illegal to 
*produce*, not to use.  You may be confusing some posts in which people 
have mentioned the replacement of R12 with propane, which has similar 
condensation and evaporation properties and which *is* flammable (and 
absolutely should not be used in an AC system).

> I have got the above pro's and con's correct.  What should I go for?

You will get half a dozen responses telling you to stick with R12, because 
it's what the system was designed for.  They're probably right.  However, 
I filled mine with R134a because I had it on hand, and my AC works quite 
nicely even in Houston.  YMMV.

-andrew




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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 15:53:29 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>
Subject: Re: A/C gas types

Realizing that you are in the UK, some of the legal discussion may not apply---

R12 is not particularly flammable, unless you get one of the R-
12 "replacements" that can be high in propane content. I'm not scared 
of them, anything gas that leaks like this is in such low 
concentration that flammability is not an issue. It's often used as a 
scare tactic. The primary drawback to the "drop in" replacements is 
that they are blends of gases that don't all leak out at the same 
rate, and most commercial shops will turn you away once they 
determine that they are used. If you are a 100% do-it-yourselfer this 
is only an issue to whomever you sell the car to. 

R12 is not illegal to use. It is illegal to manufacture, and it is 
illegal to put it in a system that is known to be leaky. 

I've not heard of R24, it's probably not in common use in the US.

R134 works well for many people if properly installed. It will cool 
almost as well and many people seem satisfied with it. It is much 
cheaper. It is more prone to leaking thru old hoses, it does run at 
higher pressure. Ideally you'd replace all the hoses, sweep the 
system, change the oil, etc. If done improperly it will work for a 
while and then gook up the system. 

All things being equal if you can get R12 at a reasonable price AND 
keep the system sealed, it's the way to go. If not, R134  - if done 
right - is an acceptable solution. 

Dave Swingle

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Chris Hawes" <chris_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> I am nearing the end of rebuilding my aircon system (evaporator 
blew) and 
> wondering what gas would be best.
> 
> From what I understand:-
> 
> R12:-
> + low pressure, less strain on the seals throughout the system.
> - illegal, flammable.
> 
> R24 or is it RS24:-
> + low pressure, less strain on the seals throughout the system.
> - rots the seals.
> 
> R134a:-
> + non-flammable
> - does not run as cold, runs at higher pressure therefore more 
likely to 
> find leaks.
> 
> I have got the above pro's and con's correct.  What should I go for?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Chris H.
> vin 5255








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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:12:49 -0400
From: mrvideosawyer_at_dml_netscape.net
Subject: RE: Door switches -  buzzer and light.

Yes this has happened to me and if you don't notice if the interior lights are still on you get a dead battery.  So . . . go to auto supply and find those rubber covers that are made to plug off vacum lines.  They sell them in a little package of 4, eyeball for the right size then slide over the door plunger.  It works great and even looks stock.

Jim Sawyer
Vin 4149



"sweetp01569" <paul.sweet_at_dml_fmglobal.com> wrote:

>I am having trouble keeping my driver side buzzer and light switch off 
>with the door closed.




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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:23:44 EDT
From: AJL521_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Oil residue pooling behind foot pedals

Dave is correct about how difficult it is to get the clutch fluid out of the 
carpet,  it is about the worst mess that one could ever think of, since the 
carpet soaks the brake fluid up like a sponge.  Make sure not to put any papers 
or boxes on the floor behind the drivers seat, because the brake fluid will 
totally destroy them, even years later.

The best advice is, when the clutch master starts leaking, replace it, not 
only because of the problems with it leaking onto the carpet, but moreso because 
of risk of having the clutch fail when you need it most.

Andrew
4194


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:54:44 -0000
From: "sweetp01569" <paul.sweet_at_dml_fmglobal.com>
Subject: Re: Oil residue pooling behind foot pedals

Thanks Dave,

How difficult is it to replace the master cylinder?  Is it 
relatively easy?  The Slave cylinder and clutch was replaced in 2004 
by the previous owner.

Paul



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> Leaky clutch master cylinder.




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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 17:23:18 -0000
From: "thebrave65" <johnny.sawyer_at_dml_gmail.com>
Subject: Moo-ing Noise

Not too long ago, my fuel pump got rather hot on a road trip here in
AZ and began it's noisy complaining.  Putting fresh fuel in the tank
always gave it a temporary cure until it got hot again.

Now, it seems to do it on and off but I can't be totally sure about
the sound.  It happens mostly when the A/C is on and it kinda sounds
like one of the fans instead of the pump.  

So I ran the engine in the garage and waited until the fans came on
(both by themselves and using the A/C) and there is no moo-ing sound.
 I take her out on the road and the moo-ing is back using the A/C. 
The sound increases and decreaes in pitch during accel/deccelerations
(I have an automatic).

I'm starting to think that it's one of the fans, but I really don't
know.  The fan fail light has not come on and both fans do function
properly as I gave them a visual exam.  I have the fused bypass.

Any opinions?  Fuel or fan?

Johnny
5518







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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:27:54 -0700
From: Ryan Wright <ryanpwright_at_dml_gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Door switches - buzzer and light.

Paul, you can buy the appropriate rubber tips from DMCH. They're
cheap. I'd also replace the switches while you're at it, just make
everything new.

-Ryan

On 6/20/05, sweetp01569 <paul.sweet_at_dml_fmglobal.com> wrote:
> I am having trouble keeping my driver side buzzer and light switch off with the door closed.




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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 08:52:55 -0700
From: "Darkstar" <darkstarmedia_at_dml_comcast.net>
Subject: RE: A/C gas types

R12 isn't illegal, it's just expensive also it's not really flammable per
say but you can burn it and it will put off poisonous gasses but I think the
others will burn too.  It's illegal to make in the US so it's harder to get.
If your system is in good condition and you used the green seals at all the
fittings and you replaced your receiver drier with one compatible with R134a
I'd say go R134a.  Be sure that you have the system vacuumed out to insure
there is no leaks.

Darkstar


-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Hawes
Subject: [DML] A/C gas types

I am nearing the end of rebuilding my aircon system (evaporator blew) and wondering what gas would be best.




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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 17:51:23 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: A/C gas types

R-12 is not flammable but it does break down in the presence of flame
into toxic gases. It is NOT illegal, at least not yet. However you DO
need a license to handle it.

I am not familiar with R-24 so I can't comment on it.

R-134 will give approx 10% less cooling capacity. Head pressures are
higher. You have to remove all traces of the origional refrigernt oil
and replace the dryer with a different type. All of the seals should
also be replaced and the hoses with "barrier" type.

The bottom line is if you can still find a place that can service your
car with R-12 it is still the best choice although it may seem
expensive. Your second choice would be one of the available "drop-in"
replacements like R-414a. It is a blended refrigerent with operating
charactoristics very close to R-12. The shop you pick should leak-test
and vacuum thourouly, sweep charge and retest, evacuate again and then
fill with the specified amount of refrigerent. Finally they should
performance test the system and give you some kind of guarantee. You
should try to find the best shop in your area by word-of-mouth and
reputation, not the biggest ad in the Yeloow Pages.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Chris Hawes" <chris_at_dml_c...> wrote:
> I am nearing the end of rebuilding my aircon system (evaporator
blew) and 
> wondering what gas would be best.
> 
> From what I understand:-
> 
> vin 5255








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Message: 10
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 17:54:22 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Door switches - buzzer and light.

Origionally there was a rubber cover on the plungers. They wear and
fall off evfentually. You can substitute a short piece of vacuum hose
or you can order new covers. They are just vacuum caps, if you go to a
local auto store they should be able to find something that will fit.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "sweetp01569" <paul.sweet_at_dml_f...> wrote:
> I am having trouble keeping my driver side buzzer and light switch off 
> with the door closed.  The previous owner glued a rubber pad on the 
> door to attempt to make up for some gap that didn't allow the contact 
> pins to push in enough to shut the buzzer and light off.  Instead, the 
>






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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:03:58 -0500
From: Greg Zapf <x86Daddy_at_dml_gmail.com>
Subject: Re: A/C gas types

R12
- illegal, flammable.

I recently did a lot of reading on this topic, and I think both are
incorrect.  Handling R12 requires EPA 609 certification (obtainable
online for $15) and it costs more per unit volume than most other
options.  However, it is still legal, despite what the local Jiffy
Lube says when asked to do R12 work.  :-)

Some people advocate propane or other flammables as a drop-in
replacement for R12, but the original R12 is less combustible than
R-134a even.

--Greg
#2894

On 6/20/05, Chris Hawes <chris_at_dml_chawes.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> I am nearing the end of rebuilding my aircon system (evaporator blew) and wondering what gas would be best.





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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:50:03 -0500
From: Greg Zapf <x86Daddy_at_dml_gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Door switches - buzzer and light.

Had the same exact problem.  Vacuum caps are the answer...  should be
cheap at your local auto supply shop.

--Greg
#2894

On 6/20/05, sweetp01569 <paul.sweet_at_dml_fmglobal.com> wrote:
> I am having trouble keeping my driver side buzzer and light switch off with the door closed.





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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:30:44 -0500
From: Warren Wallingford <warren_at_dml_usadmc.com>
Subject: Re: Oil residue pooling behind foot pedals

That's the clutch master leaking.  The nose of the cylinder pokes into 
the cabin through the "firewall" to connect to the pedal.  The rod seal 
is right there and isn't working any more, so DOT4 is leaking under your 
carpet.  Time to change the master.  Put in a new re-inforced hydralic 
line while you're at it.
Here they are:
http://www.usadmc.com/dmcstore/ViewPart.asp?PID=139&Qty=1&ShowCart=true
http://www.usadmc.com/dmcstore/ViewPart.asp?PID=2019&Qty=1&ShowCart=true

Warren Wallingford
DeLorean Motor Company (Texas)
15023 Eddie Drive
Humble, Texas 77396 USA

http://www.delorean.com
800/USA-DMC1
281/441-2537
281/441-2813 Fax

sweetp01569 wrote:
> I haven't determined which linkage is related to this yet, but wanted to ask the group.  I noticed a little pooling of what looked like oil behind the foot pedals under an area where linkage passes through the foot well.




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Message: 14
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:09:31 -0000
From: "dgrozio" <derek.grozio_at_dml_verizon.net>
Subject: Daily driver insurance - What company do you have?

(Moderators note: We've done the car insurance thing over and over before. If anyone has any info they can help Derek with, please send it directly to him and not the list. Marty, this weeks moderator)


Hello all,
I have been searching for a car for the past month, and as I have found 
a few cars as of late that I have been interested in, I have started 
checking with insurance companies on price quotes. I have searched the 
list for insurance questions, and have heard a bunch of positive as 
well as negative comments regarding state farm. I plan on using this 
car as a daily driver, and putting more than the 2,500 or 7,500 miles 
on it allowed from a collectors or classic car insurance. Could any 
daily drivers out there please let me know what insurance companies you 
have? So far I have received a quote from State Farm, and plan on 
calling Allstate. I also saw a mention for Progressive so I will be 
giving them a call. Any other companies that a daily driver uses, 
please let me know. Thanks.

-Derek







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Message: 15
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 17:55:07 -0400
From: "Mike Walsh" <mike_at_dml_mikewalsh.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Canadian meet -Grand Bend

I for one had a great time. We met up at the hotel and went for a cruise to
a little town with lots of shops (ended up sitting around and talking about
Deloreans - go figure). After that a cruise back to the beach - what could
be better - Deloreans and bikinis!

Thanks for a great time Marv, I appreciate all the work you put in.

Mike
#17084





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Message: 16
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 17:48:16 -0400
From: "Mike Walsh" <mike_at_dml_mikewalsh.net>
Subject: Re: A/C gas types

I am nowhere near an air cond expert. Living in Canada it is almost
impossible to get any R12. I was studying for the EPA test to get a license
so I could buy some in the US. In the "official" guide the EPA states that
if your system is R12 and is not leaking, it is preferable to keep the
system the way it is. If there are leak problems or if major components need
to be replaced then converting to R134a should be "seriously considered".

R12 is NOT illegal. It is simply not manufactured anymore. Sale of R12 is
permitted for certain uses (like auto air cond) but you must have a license
to purchase it. It is illegal to vent R12 but also to vent R134a too.

R134a can also be flammable under certain conditions.

I got lucky enough to find a garage that was able to add a bit of Freon,
it's been blowing at about 40 deg.

- Mike
#17084

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Hawes" <chris_at_dml_chawes.demon.co.uk>
Subject: [DML] A/C gas types


> I am nearing the end of rebuilding my aircon system (evaporator blew) and wondering what gas would be best.




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Message: 17
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 11:01:28 -0500
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: A/C gas types

Chris,
I have converted 3 of my personal cars over to R134A and have had no
trouble. Just have to have the right person to charge up the system. But,
Due to the cost of R12 and less people handling and working on it, I would
go to R134A.
All the parts are readily available and plenty of people to work on it and
R134A is still cheap. We have new compressors already with R134A oil loaded
in them.
John Hervey
www.specialtauto.com



-----Original Message-----
From:  Chris Hawes
Subject: [DML] A/C gas types

I am nearing the end of rebuilding my aircon system (evaporator blew) and wondering what gas would be best.




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Message: 18
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 00:34:43 -0000
From: "Marv Hein" <marvhein_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Door switches - buzzer and light.

I saw it on my passenger door.  Instead of adding the door pad, my 
previous owner had extended the switch pin with a little rubber 
cap.  Not quite sure where he found it, but I sure noticed when it 
fell off!  Fortunately, I found it on my garage floor.

Anyway, pin extension seems to be effective.

Marv
#10820




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Message: 19
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:31:59 EDT
From: AJL521_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Recent E-bay DeLoreans

Hello list,

I've noticed quite a few DeLoreans on ebay in recent weeks.  Some needed a 
bit of work, but overall many appeared to be in decent shape.  There is an 81 
with a single turbo currently listed, although it needs some interior work, and 
a couple things here and there, it looks like it would be a nice project.

The barn car is listed again (However it looks like the seller gave it a good 
wash).  Again this one appears to be a project car, but there were a few 
things that concerned me about that car.  It has been sitting since 88' (hopefully 
somebody drained the fuel tank) and has some front end damage, including the 
infamous left front fender.  Im not an expert in stainless steel repair, so I 
can't say whether or not a professional could repair the damage, or if fender 
replacement is necessary.  Between the hood, front left fender, front facia, 
and fuel system, that car could (and most likely will) be quite costly to fix. 
The seats and interior look decent, and the rest of the body appears to be in 
good shape.  As with any project car, I hope buyer does their homework and 
research to know what they are getting into.

There are also a few good condition DeLoreans currently on e-bay, at what 
appear to be reasonable prices.  I'm sure I won't be the first or the last person 
to say, "If you want a DeLorean to drive, save a little more and buy one that 
is in good condition.  However if you want a project to work on, go ahead and 
buy the car that needs work, but be ready to spend more then you would have 
spent on a better condition car, in regards to time and parts."  I will say 
that bringing a project DeLorean back to life is a rewarding experiance, but it 
is also costly in time, money, and stress.  My DeLorean needed about as much 
work as a car could need when I purchased it back in 98, (ask Rich W.  from what 
I remember he had looked at it when the previous owner had it up for sale).  
Today it runs, drives, and looks good also, it's not perfect, and I doubt it 
ever will be, but it's fun, and I wouldn't trade it for the world. 

So to make a long story short, for anyone who is interested in buying a 
DeLorean, do some research to determine exactly what you want.  The best decisions 
are informed decisions.

Andrew
4194



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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Message: 20
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 02:02:06 -0000
From: "byrondelorean" <celiambyron_at_dml_msn.com>
Subject: Passenger Mirror

My passenger mirror operates left & right, up and down doesn't work. 
Drivers mirror works perfect. This happened recently. I checked all 
the plugs, everything seems to be in place. Could this be the motor in 
the mirror? 

Thanks for the help.
Byron






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Message: 21
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 02:50:45 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>
Subject: Re: Oil residue pooling behind foot pedals

It's a one-beer/two person job. 

Worst part is probably re-bleeding the system. Remove the access panels 
in the trunk and, for easier access, the left front wheel. Disconnect 
the line and the two screws/nuts (hence two people). 

Dave Swingle

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "sweetp01569" <paul.sweet_at_dml_f...> wrote:
> Thanks Dave,
> 
> How difficult is it to replace the master cylinder?  Is it 
> relatively easy?  The Slave cylinder and clutch was replaced in 2004 
> by the previous owner.
> 
> Paul
> clutch master cylinder.






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Message: 22
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 03:03:19 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Moo-ing Noise

Make sure the condensor coil and the radiator are not blocked with
leaves or debris. Make sure both fans work and the blades are not
loose on the shafts. Finally make sure the fans are rotating in the
correct direction ie, pulling the air from in front of the car and
blowing it out underneath.  When the fans are running the wrong way
and you travel foward you can get all kinds of funny noises. If it is
not the fans you may have a kinked or collapsing pick-up hose in the
gas tank. Finally you could have a bad heater fan motor. Try running
it on vent and see if you get a noise. Noises are notoriously
difficult to explain and even harder to find and fix.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "thebrave65" <johnny.sawyer_at_dml_g...> wrote:
> Not too long ago, my fuel pump got rather hot on a road trip here in
> AZ and began it's noisy complaining.  Putting fresh fuel in the tank
> always gave it a temporary cure until it got hot again.
> 
> Now, it seems to do it on and off but I can't be totally sure about
> the sound.  It happens mostly when the A/C is on and it kinda sounds
> like one of the fans instead of the pump.  
> 






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Message: 23
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 05:02:08 -0000
From: "dgrozio" <derek.grozio_at_dml_verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Canadian meet -Grand Bend

I had a great time also. Thank you to everyone for taking the time to talk DeLoreans to a 
soon to be owner. Thanks Marv for setting up the event.

Mike - loved your car, I actually have the picture as my computer background. Hope you 
don't mind.

-Derek


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Mike Walsh" <mike_at_dml_m...> wrote:
> I for one had a great time. We met up at the hotel and went for a cruise to
> a little town with lots of shops (ended up sitting around and talking about
> Deloreans - go figure). After that a cruise back to the beach - what could
> be better - Deloreans and bikinis!
> 
> Thanks for a great time Marv, I appreciate all the work you put in.
> 
> Mike
> #17084








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Message: 24
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:40:06 -0500
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Oil residue pooling behind foot pedals

Paul, The Master cylinder could have been replaced by an NOS unit in which
the seals may have been bad after 20 + years of sitting. I do make new seals
and sell them with a life warranty, but if the cylinder is good then the
seals should last for years. The leaking is going into the carpet pad. The
master isn't hard to change but the slave is a little harder.
John Hervey
http://www.specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/images/clutch-master-cylinder-reb
u.jpg


-----Original Message-----
From: sweetp01569
Subject: [DML] Re: Oil residue pooling behind foot pedals

How difficult is it to replace the master cylinder?  Is it
relatively easy?  The Slave cylinder and clutch was replaced in 2004
by the previous owner.




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Message: 25
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 01:20:44 EDT
From: AJL521_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: A/C gas types

Personally, I always felt that R-12 was more effective then R134 and it is a 
noticable difference.  However the cost of R-12 is so high these days that it 
is non-economical, compared to the inexpensive cost of R134.  Plus if you have 
a leak in the system, the cost losing an R-12 charge can be enough to make 
you cry...how would it feel to spend $300 to charge the system with R-12 only to 
have it leak out in the matter of weeks or months.  If the seals in the car 
are original they are between 24 and 22 years old, and they are bound to leak 
after this amount of time.  

As far as R134 goes, it is a different compound, and is actually thinner then 
R12, so if you had a leak with R-12, the leak will be worse with 134.  
Furthermore 134 operates at different pressures, and with a different oil, so when 
doing a conversion, the system must be properly switched over.  As others have 
said the blended refrigerents can work well (depending on what kind you use) 
but they will leak at different rates per refrigerent and therefore cannot be 
topped off.  

I'm sure that everyone will tell you not to use propaine, which some people 
might be crazy enough to try.  It might (I don't know, nor would I ever even 
think about using it) cool well, but that stuff is not just flamable, it's 
downright explosive!  With the pressures that that the AC system runs at (over 100 
PSI on the high side), would any sane person run that stuff in any car?  
Furthermore there are restrictions on what might be used as an automotive 
refrigerent...and I'm almost sure (I say "almost" because I don't normally speak in 
definate terms) that something highly flamable would not be approved.  

So to make a long story short, R-12 is the original refrigerent in our 
DeLorean's, and is recommened by a good number of people.  However a proper R134 
conversion can be less costly in the long run, and provide an acceptable level of 
cooling, furthermore it will be much easier to get an R134 recharge in the 
long run from a service center, since most service centers don't deal with 
blended refrigerents, and have a difficulty getting R12, which will only get worse 
as the supply is depleated.  (From what I recall the last year R-12 was 
produced was 1995, what's out there is all that's left...forever).

Stay cool,

Andrew,
4194


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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