From: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 2695
Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 8:10 PM

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: DOA
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>

2. Re: Door Lock Removal
From: Ryan Wright <ryanpwright_at_dml_gmail.com>

3. Re: DOA
From: "Murray Fisher" <murrayfw_at_dml_charter.net>

4. Re: DOA
From: Ryan Wright <ryanpwright_at_dml_gmail.com>

5. Re: Spark Plugs?
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

6. Door locks
From: "Jerry Harry" <jlharry_at_dml_mcloudteleco.com>

7. Re: Re: Oil residue pooling behind foot pedals
From: Ryan Wright <ryanpwright_at_dml_gmail.com>

8. Re: Door Lock Removal
From: "Toby Peterson" <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>

9. DOA
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

10. Re: Door Lock Removal
From: "Matt Spittle" <supermatty_at_dml_psu.edu>

11. Fuel injector additives
From: "sweetp01569" <paul.sweet_at_dml_fmglobal.com>

12. Re: Clutch Fluid - Dot 4
From: Ryan Wright <ryanpwright_at_dml_gmail.com>

13. Re: Re: Upper door seals
From: Ryan Wright <ryanpwright_at_dml_gmail.com>

14. Fuel line order and placement
From: "ashtonorlan" <ashtonorlan_at_dml_yahoo.com>

15. Re: Fuel injector additives
From: Martin Gutkowski <martin_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

16. Re: Re: Door Lock Removal
From: mike clemens <rmclemns_at_dml_yahoo.com>

17. Re: Re: Door Lock Removal
From: Ryan Wright <ryanpwright_at_dml_gmail.com>

18. Re: Fuel line order and placement
From: Martin Gutkowski <martin_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

19. Re: DOA
From: wingd2_at_dml_aol.com

20. RE: Fuel injector additives
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

21. Re: Fuel line order and placement
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>

22. Re: Fuel injector additives
From: kjc <ckevinj_at_dml_gmail.com>

23. Re: DOA
From: "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>

24. RE: DOA
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

25. Re: Fuel injector additives
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>





Message: 1
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:16:33 -0400
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>
Subject: Re: DOA

Jeremiah,

I'm one of the moderators, and to the best of my knowledge nothing "went down" that needs to be kept private or secret.  I like the DOA and have many happy memories of the Expos they have put on in the past.  All of the board members and regular members I have met have been very nice to me.

I consider many of the back issues of DeLorean World magazine to be very valuable.  In recent years (2003?) it was renamed dw and changed to twice a year instead of quarterly.  If you haven't seen the spiffy new website for dw you can check it out here:

http://www.deloreanmagazine.com/

As to history, it is no secret that James Espey was a DOA board member at the same time he owned the DML.  I'm a regular DOA member myself, and though I've never attended a DOA board meeting I know I would be welcomed there.

I am not certain, but I think the DOA's official statement of purpose changed recently.  Perhaps someone associated with the DOA board could confirm or deny that thought.

- Mike Substelny
DML moderator and card-carrying DOA member







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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:48:34 -0700
From: Ryan Wright <ryanpwright_at_dml_gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Door Lock Removal

Todd,

> Also while I had the door apart I noticed the only use for the door solenoids and the whole electric locking system is to lock both sides of the car with one turn of the key.  If this is right I don't see why people haven't just removed the whole electric locking system that has so many problems around it as it is and make it purely mechanical.
> 


You can have your cake and eat it too. Toby Peterson
(www.delorean-parts.com) sells an upgraded door locking kit that
replaces those heavy solenoids with linear actuators. They use a
fraction of the power at a fraction of the weight. $100 for both doors
& full instructions. This system comes with outboard relays that will
not stick and burn anything up. I've said in the past this is the best
DeLorean upgrade ever, and I still believe so.

Then, you can rebuild your door lock module for a few bucks to greatly
reduce standby power so it wll no longer drain your battery. If the
lock module already has problems Toby's system won't fix it, you'll
have to address those first, but once you do his system will help
ensure the module doesn't develop problems again. The biggest problem
with the door locking system is those heavy solenoids; they draw too
much power and the locking electronics weren't engineered to handle
it. Replace them and you're golden.

-Ryan




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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:04:14 -0700
From: "Murray Fisher" <murrayfw_at_dml_charter.net>
Subject: Re: DOA

I first ordered a "DeLorean Gold Portfolio 1977-1995" and read it from cover 
to cover....I still refer to it....It is STILL good reading as it has most 
of the test reports of that period and many good articles regarding the 
DeLorean.  Then on 5 April 1997 I found just what I was looking for and 
purchased from the original owner a 1981 D with 3K miles....gray and 
automatic.  I was fortunate in having become acquainted with Arnie Brandon 
in Bellevue, WA and visited with him a while....he had an almost full set of 
DeLorean World magazines which I purchased and found the missing issues here 
and there.  The very first few were photo copied or mimeographed maybe and I 
have all  of them too.   I immediately started reading and got bleary eyed 
reading into the night.....I then subscribed to it.  They are just 
invaluable.....many of those who wrote articles and took pictures, diagrams 
etc are the same we have on this list!!     I got the bindings for all of 
them. I quite often just pick up a magazine at random.  They are amazing...I 
think every subject that comes up on the DML are fully covered and with the 
very best descriptions, drawings and sharp photographs.  I have them 
earmarked and a notebook with references.  I highly recommend them to 
ANYONE.
Murray Fisher
Vin: 05962 Lic: DMC-XII


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "sweetp01569" <paul.sweet_at_dml_fmglobal.com>
Subject: Re: [DML] DOA
> I'm only a three month newbie and I, too, have no idea about the
> past politics that occured on this site. 





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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:48:19 -0700
From: Ryan Wright <ryanpwright_at_dml_gmail.com>
Subject: Re: DOA

On 6/21/05, Bryan Pearce <bryanp_at_dml_pearce-design.com> wrote:
> Jeremiah,
> 
> My suggestion on this topic is that we not worry about the past and
> judge the relationship based on current actions and personalities.  I
> don't believe anything can be gained by looking back.
> 
> Just my two cents.
> 
> Bryan Pearce
> Pearce Design Components

I disagree. 

Would you buy a car, for example, without studying it's past?
Would you hire an individual for a professional job without studying his past?
No? Then why would you join, support, or otherwise be a member of a
club with no clue as to it's past?

We should fully understand where the DOA once was, if for nothing else
than to help ensure the mistakes of the past are not repeated.
Personally, I appreciate the olive branch the "new" DOA has offered
us; however, I am concerned certain issues are being avoided. For
instance, when Tony replied to the question of the DOA becoming
something other than a California group, instead of a promise of what
the future holds he posted examples of why the accusation wasn't
really valid. Whether it's valid or not doesn't concern me. What does
is the apparent inability or unwillingness to address perceptions such
as these in an open, non-defensive manner. Instead of, "Here's a list
of reasons proving we've never been what you think we are", I would
have liked to have seen, "I understand your concern, and we are
working to address it by doing the following."

I simply would like to see the club return to it's apparent (I say
apparent because I wasn't a member and can only go on what I've read)
former glory. The more the community can help - assuming the DOA wants
our help - the better.

-Ryan




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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:49:45 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Spark Plugs?

I would have your mechanic verify proper operation of the cold start
valve and make sure it is not leaking. Other possible causes are dirty
injectors, bad warm-up regulator, vacuum leaks and/or misadjusted
mixture screw, sticking plunger or air sensor. The Lambda should also
be checked for proper operation. There are many other possabilites
from a clogged air filter to bad gas. Give your mechanic the Workshop
Manual so he can go over all of these systems.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "stefandmc" <stefandmc_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> When i start my car, it starts really rough,black smoke comes out of 
> the exhaust for about 1.5 min then it runs normal. This is bad for the 
> spark plugs because when i first got the car it wouldnt start, i 
> cleaned the old spark plugs and it worked for about 2 weeks, then t






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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:03:03 -0500
From: "Jerry Harry" <jlharry_at_dml_mcloudteleco.com>
Subject: Door locks

Each time I try to open the drivers door the inside lock lever  comes out of the open position and goes to about the middle of it's range and the door is effectively locked.  I can hold the lock unlock lever in the open position and the door opens fine.  If I do not hold it, it will move to the middle like position and the door is locked, it doesn't move until I lift either open lever, then it moves and locks the door.
Has anyone seen this, which adjustment is out to cause this?  I have REMOVED the lock selinoid, it had no power any way but I found that it's plunger moved with the linkage and decide it was not needed, as it has been powerless forever.
This condition requires that I leave the drivers window down so I can reach in and hold down the lock unlock lever while I open the door.  Sure would like to close that window.

Thanks for any help.
Jerry
Vin# 4890

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:09:51 -0700
From: Ryan Wright <ryanpwright_at_dml_gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Oil residue pooling behind foot pedals

On 6/22/05, sweetp01569 <paul.sweet_at_dml_fmglobal.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the advice on bleeding the system.  I will definitely get
> the bleeder kit.  I am also getting the stainless braided clutch
> line.  Is this hard to install?
> 

Yes and no. The connection above the transmission will give you the
most headache. I don't really have any tips in this department, as the
installation is fairly obvious once you're under there, just be
careful with that rear connection. There is a rigid line going from
that point up to the slave cylinder and it's very easy to bend... if
you kink it you get to buy and install a new one and I almost think it
would be easier to just take the whole transmission out to do that
job.

When you put the stainless steel line in, make sure you tie-wrap it
up. There's another line running through where it goes and you just
tie-wrap them together. If you leave it hanging (it's tempting,
because it's in a secure channel and isn't going to fall out), I've
heard it can rub on your frame and wear the epoxy away. Then your
frame starts to rust making you a very, very unhappy DeLorean owner.

-Ryan





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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 18:48:30 -0000
From: "Toby Peterson" <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>
Subject: Re: Door Lock Removal

Todd - The best solution (in my humble opinion) to the problems that 
you have noted is to replace the heavy and problematic solenoids with 
light-weight actuators.  Search for part number K2500DP on our site 
for more information on this upgrade.  This does retain the door lock 
module, with it's standby current issues, but the many other problems 
created by the solenoids are resolved.  If you really want to make it 
convenient for using the door locks, you can get our upgradeable 
keyless entry system (K2700DP) that will allow you to operate the 
door locks without the key.  You can add remote door opening 
capability to this keyless entry system at any time, if desired.  
Then, you don't even have to touch the door handles.  The existence 
of the central locking does have safety implications - when the car 
is hit hard or overturned, the inertia switch interacts with the 
electric door locks to unlock the doors for easier escape.  

In regards to the damaged lock cylinder, I would recommend letting a 
good locksmith have a go at it.

Toby Peterson  VIN 2248 "Winged1"
DeLorean Parts Northwest, LLC
www.delorean-parts.com 

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Todd Nelson <tan5732_at_dml_r...> wrote:
> List:
> 
> I did look this up in the archives and found some results, however 
I still seem to be having some issues removing the early style door 
lock from the door.
> 
> Also while I had the door apart I noticed the only use for the door 
solenoids and the whole electric locking system is to lock both sides 
of the car with one turn of the key.  If this is right I don't see 
why people haven't just removed the whole electric locking system 
that has so many problems around it as it is and make it purely 
mechanical.




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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:51:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: DOA

I think it is more the common human nature of how
power can corrupt.


--- sweetp01569 <paul.sweet_at_dml_fmglobal.com> wrote:

> I'm only a three month newbie and I, too, have no
> idea about the 
> past politics that occured on this site.  I do see
> some of 
> the "tensions" that build over certain subjects or
> parts compared 
> between vendors.  I just appreciate the existence of
> this community, 
> which I am using as my primary resource for
> technical advice about 
> my car.  The fast and courteous responses to my
> questions makes me 
> happy to be part of the "Delorean family".  I hope
> the tensions are 
> more akin to "sibling rivalry" than true
> hostilities.
> 
> Paul
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 




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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 19:18:06 -0000
From: "Matt Spittle" <supermatty_at_dml_psu.edu>
Subject: Re: Door Lock Removal

Todd,

It will be very difficult for you to remove the early style door locks
without destroying them.  Plan on destroying them, because there's a
good chance if you don't destroy the locks, you'll dent your door up
pretty good trying to save them.  This is how I did it...

>From the inside of the door, use a dremel or rotary tool to remove the
little plastic ears that stick out on the lock holding it to the
stainless.  This is the main procedure that will free the lock to be
pulled out of the door. 

To pull the lock out of the door, or to begin to work it free, get a
flathead screwdriver and insert it into the keyhole.  Then, gently,
lever it back and forth to work the lock out of the door.  The
stainless steel can flex a little without damaging it.  If it doesn't
seem like it's coming, you need to grind away a little more plastic
from the inside.  Eventually it should be able to be pushed out. 

As for the solenoids, you are right.  They are only used to
unlock/lock both doors when you turn the key.  It's kind of a nice
feature to have.  I converted over to DPNW's actuators, and they work
just as well, and they're lighter.  Remember, the door locks aren't
designed to be locked with the door open, so don't tell your passenger
to lock the door before closing it.

Matt
#1604
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 19:44:42 -0000
From: "sweetp01569" <paul.sweet_at_dml_fmglobal.com>
Subject: Fuel injector additives

What is the general thoughts on using fuel injector cleaner/additives 
in the gas?








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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:14:05 -0700
From: Ryan Wright <ryanpwright_at_dml_gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Clutch Fluid - Dot 4

On 6/21/05, Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com> wrote:
> For the 1500'th time in the history of the DML..
> 
> 
> USE Castrol GT LMA
> 
> 

See, this is what I've read and heard dozens of times but you know
what? I can't find it in my area. I've been to every auto parts store
and nobody has it.

I settled for what they did have - Valvoline SynPower. This is a fine
choice if you can't find the Castrol.

-Ryan




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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:07:09 -0700
From: Ryan Wright <ryanpwright_at_dml_gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Upper door seals

Folks,

How, exactly, do you remove the T panel? I need to install new upper
seals as well, and would prefer to remove the panel to do so.

-Ryan



On 6/11/05, mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net <mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> A tip for removing the seals out is to use WD-40 to lubricate the seals where they pass behind the hinges.  This makes it much easier to slide the seals in and out without bending them and to get them aligned with the rivit holes.
> --
> Mike
> 
> 
> -------------- Original message from stefan diklich <stefandmc_at_dml_yahoo.ca>: --------------
> 
> > I got it in and out without removing the T panel, mind you it was quite difficult and took all day, now its in and looks fine. I used SS rivits too.




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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 22:02:31 -0000
From: "ashtonorlan" <ashtonorlan_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Fuel line order and placement

I am reinstalling my fuel system. Does anyone know they exact order of
the fuel lines from the distributor? A picture reference would be great.
The retroserver site had one but its down.

Any help would be great.

Brian D

AshtonOrlan_at_dml_yahoo.com








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Message: 15
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 00:06:11 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <martin_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Fuel injector additives

Can cause more trouble than it fixes. It does a great job of stripping 
deposits off the walls of the fuel lines and sending the crud into the 
meering head/injectors

Martin

sweetp01569 wrote:

>What is the general thoughts on using fuel injector cleaner/additives 
>in the gas?
>
>  
>





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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 16:04:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: mike clemens <rmclemns_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Door Lock Removal

Matt,

Due to the cost involved for new locks, I disagree
with your statement that you can "plan on destroying
them".  I've had my locks out on 1630 (both sides) 3
or 4 times and I still haven't "destroyed" them.  

You just need to be careful and make sure you have the
correct tools for the job.  Two right angle picks from
Harbor Freight work wonderfully.

Also Todd, don't dispose to the lock cylinder once you
get it out.  They are rebuildable, again if you have
the patience and right tools.  

Todd, you can contact me off line and I can talk you
through the removal process, if you like.

Mike      1630    TPS


--- Matt Spittle <supermatty_at_dml_psu.edu> wrote:

> Todd,
> 
> It will be very difficult for you to remove the
> early style door locks without destroying them.





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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 16:09:39 -0700
From: Ryan Wright <ryanpwright_at_dml_gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Door Lock Removal

On 6/22/05, Toby Peterson <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com> wrote:
> Then, you don't even have to touch the door handles.  The existence
> of the central locking does have safety implications - when the car
> is hit hard or overturned, the inertia switch interacts with the
> electric door locks to unlock the doors for easier escape.

Not that you'd have any luck getting out of an overturned DeLorean,
but it's the thought that counts. ;-)

-Ryan




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Message: 18
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 00:08:04 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <martin_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Fuel line order and placement

Tsk tsk

http://www.dmcnews.com/Techsection/fuelhoses.htm

Look on the website next time <grin>

(tongue in cheek)

Martin

ashtonorlan wrote:

>I am reinstalling my fuel system. Does anyone know they exact order of
>the fuel lines from the distributor? A picture reference would be great.
>The retroserver site had one but its down.
>
>Any help would be great.
>
>Brian D
>
>
>  
>





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Message: 19
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 19:32:27 EDT
From: wingd2_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: DOA

In a message dated 6/22/2005 5:36:15 PM Central Standard Time, 
dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com writes:
   From: Bryan Pearce <bryanp_at_dml_pearce-design.com>
Subject: Re: DOA

Jeremiah,

My suggestion on this topic is that we not worry about the past and  
judge the relationship based on current actions and personalities.  I  
don't believe anything can be gained by looking back.

Just my two cents.

Bryan Pearce
Pearce Design Components

  Bryan,

  I hope you are right on this, but I was also at the DMCH banquet when the DOA board member got up and spoke to the crowd. My personal take on his presentation was.... "Please, please join the DOA" - I.E. - Please, please SEND MONEY !!!  My guess is the DOA coffers are dry and they are in need of funds, which may be another reason the "old guard" is no longer there. They ran out of other peoples money to spend.
  Now I'm not a current DOA member and as such have no facts to back any of this up. Of course, in the past being a DOA member did you no good in trying to look at the books anyway, so their finances have always been speculation, but.....  This is just my personal interpretation of the presentation that was made. Time will tell, and I hope it proves me wrong.
   I also find it very interesting that the DOA has all of a sudden decided to utilize their arch rival, the "DML" to try and promote their own orginization. Fool me once, shame on you ... fool me twice.......... 

  Marty Maier


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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Message: 20
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 18:32:42 -0500
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Fuel injector additives

Be careful about injector cleaners. We are dealing with 30+ year old
technology in the fuel distributor and through out the fuel system. The
cleaner depending on how much, what kind and how long do a lot of damage to
the Nitrile O rings in a short period of time.
The best way to clean injectors is to take them out and use an Ultrasonic
cleaner with Berrymans B12. Cook them for about an hour and run them through
the tester, If the pattern is bad then try it again. If the results are the
same then it's replacement time.
John Hervey
www.specialtauto.com




-----Original Message-----
From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
Of sweetp01569
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 1:45 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Fuel injector additives


What is the general thoughts on using fuel injector cleaner/additives
in the gas?








To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
Yahoo! Groups Links












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Message: 21
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 23:39:09 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel line order and placement

http://www.dmcnews.com/Techsection/fuelhoses.htm

Dave


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "ashtonorlan" <ashtonorlan_at_dml_y...> wrote:
> I am reinstalling my fuel system. Does anyone know they exact order of
> the fuel lines from the distributor? A picture reference would be 
great.
> The retroserver site had one but its down.
> 
> Any help would be great.
> 
> Brian D
> 
> AshtonOrlan_at_dml_y...






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Message: 22
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 18:46:49 -0500
From: kjc <ckevinj_at_dml_gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel injector additives

if you've got old rubber in the fuel system (most of us do) it can be a 
_very_ bad thing.
If you really think it would help, then dump it in and take a very long 
drive and burn it all at once.

-Kevin
#4687

On 6/22/05, sweetp01569 <paul.sweet_at_dml_fmglobal.com> wrote:
> 
> What is the general thoughts on using fuel injector cleaner/additives
> in the gas?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> 
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see 
> www.dmcnews.com <http://www.dmcnews.com>
> 
> To search the archives or view files, log in at 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
-Kevin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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Message: 23
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 18:47:44 -0500
From: "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: DOA

That is one wicked cool website, and I have joined and ordered my magazines 
and I can't wait to get them! I wait for the mail carrier like they are 
Santa Clause!
I heard that at one time the DOA had something like 7000+ members?
It would be nice if there was an organization like that now with that sort 
of unity.
Ken does a fantastic job with his shows, a little too good for the response.
Sure, he had over 500 people but it should have been 5000.
...maybe someday!
- VB


>From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>
>Subject: Re: [DML] DOA
>Jeremiah,
>
>I'm one of the moderators, and to the best of my knowledge nothing "went down" that needs to be kept private or secret.  I like the DOA and have many happy memories of the Expos they have put on in the past.




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Message: 24
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 18:38:06 -0500
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: DOA

Mike, Who are the board members at this time. Is it on the site somewhere.
John Hervey


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Substelny
Subject: Re: [DML] DOA
Jeremiah,

I'm one of the moderators, and to the best of my knowledge nothing "went down" that needs to be kept private or secret.  I like the DOA and have many happy memories of the Expos they have put on in the past.  All of the board members and regular members I have met have been very nice to me.





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Message: 25
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 00:29:26 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel injector additives

Modern gasoline has what is called an "additives package" which among
many other things includes things that are supposed to keep a fuel
injection system clean. I say "KEEP" it clean, not clean it up. For a
system that is used regularly there are injector cleaners that do work
if it is not too bad. Techron is a particularly good one. If you have
a fuel injection system that is heavily contaminated there is no magic
cleaner that you can pour in that will clean it. Same goes for a
system that has old fuel in it that has not been used for a long time.
In these cases the best advice is to drain the tank, wash it out,
flush out the lines and components, clean and test the injectors and
mixture unit, and replace the fuel filter. If the system is not
terrible you may be able to salvage most of the components. Do not try
to overdo the use of fuel system/injector cleaners. They have cautions
on the labels that you can do serious damage to the engine if you use
them too much or too often. Some will damage the catalytic converter
so you have to check the label. In general if you have a car you use
at least semi-regularly you do not need a fuel system/injector
cleaner. I do suggest that if the car is to be stored (like over the
winter) you remove the fuel. I suggest it for 2 main reasons. On too
many cars I have seen winter storage turn into long-term (multi year)
storage and the fuel rots the parts internaly. The other big reason is
that when you do take the car out of storage it is started with fresh
gas so it will start and run better. Gasoline is blended for the
seasons. You do not want to use gas blended for winter in the summer
if you can help it. These "Mechanic-in-a Bottle" products are usually
not worth the money spent. All the large automakers do not recomend
nor do they require their use. Same goes for the oil additives and
coolant additives. These additives are generally purchesed by people
that do not have any automotive knowledge and think they are giving
their cars a "treat". BTW I don't like fuel stabalizers either. Think
about it, they are supposed to make the fuel less volitile, ie, more
stable, but to do it makes it less like gasoline. I say save your
money and just take the fuel out. It doesn't go to waste, you can use
the gas up in another car and buy fresh gas when you take the car out
of storage (and it is even more expensive!).
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "sweetp01569" <paul.sweet_at_dml_f...> wrote:
> What is the general thoughts on using fuel injector cleaner/additives 
> in the gas?







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