Subject:
[DML] Digest Number 2741
From:
dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Date:
15 Jul 2005 19:54:12 -0000
To:

dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Spoke too soon! - Thanks for tips on brake job.
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

2. Re: My DMC Joe Experience
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

3. AW: Relay clicking with my AC on.
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>

4. Re: "Professional" Mechanics
From: "lordshill1" <lordshill_at_dml_aol.com>

5. Re: Steering Column Rattle
From: "Brandon" <morpheus34711_at_dml_yahoo.com>

6. RE: Re: Relay clicking with my AC on.
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

7. Re: Emissions
From: "Dave" <v-davidj_at_dml_microsoft.com>

8. RE: "Professional" Mechanics
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

9. RE: Re: Spoke too soon! - Thanks for tips on brake job.
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

10. Re: Emissions
From: "Dave" <v-davidj_at_dml_microsoft.com>

11. RE: Re: Emissions
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

12. re-Never Ending FV Problems
From: john_at_dml_specialtauto.com

13. Re: re-Never Ending FV Problems
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

14. Re: Re: Spoke too soon! - Thanks for tips on brake job.
From: DMCVIN6683 <dmcvin6683_at_dml_wi.rr.com>

15. Re: Emissions
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

16. Re: "Professional" Mechanics
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

17. Re: Relay clicking with my AC on.
From: "Alan Roberts" <twodelo2_at_dml_earthlink.net>

18. Cobra Conversion?
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>

19. coolant leak throgh otterstat seal
From: "mrvic20" <faycraig.newton_at_dml_virgin.net>

20. replacing the fuses
From: Gus Schlachter <gus_at_dml_austin.rr.com>

21. Re: My DMC Joe Experience
From: Jeremiah Montee <angelito03299_at_dml_yahoo.com>

22. Re: Re: Steering Column Rattle
From: Jeremiah Montee <angelito03299_at_dml_yahoo.com>

23. This should have come out sooner.
From: "cbowman3169" <cbowman3169_at_dml_yahoo.com>

24. Re: Spoke too soon! - Thanks for tips on brake job.
From: "sweetp01569" <paul.sweet_at_dml_fmglobal.com>

25. Re: Emissions
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>





Message: 1
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 14:38:46 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Spoke too soon! - Thanks for tips on brake job.

If you do not see any brake fluid leaking maybe you didn't bleed the
system thourghly or it is possible you have a bad master cylinder.
Before testing the car again make sure the emergency brake is working
perfectly!
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "sweetp01569" <paul.sweet_at_dml_f...> wrote:

>> After all the pats on the back I gave myself for doing the brakes, 
>> they started failing on my ride home yesterday!  I was coming to a 
>> stop, pressing the brake pedal, when the pedal lost pressure and 
>> slowly lowered to the floor!   I had to pump them quickly to build 
>> up some pressure, and worked my way home that way, making sure I had 
>> enough room in front of me.
>> 

 VIN 10944







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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 14:47:39 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: My DMC Joe Experience

It does seem like DMC Joe used the trust he built up on the DML to
take advantage of many. This should have come out sooner. If a member
of this list isn't happy with a vender I don't understand why it took
so long to find out. I hope it was a case of good intentions gone bad.
He seemed to be genuine. In his defense he did claim personal problems
and maybe that is what changed his way of doing busness. My only
contact with him (before the dml) was to get some info on the problems
with the automatic transmission. He sent me a single sheet of paper
about the shift computer after a prolonged length of time (or so it
seemed) and charged me $2 for it. For what it is worth, way back, he
did travel to many people's houses to fix their cars and at the time
no one had any compliants.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Soma576_at_dml_a... wrote:

>>  
>> In a message dated 7/14/2005 11:13:33 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
>> sharkywaters_at_dml_b... writes:
>> 
>> How many  people has Joe not only taken money
>> from, but also completely soured the  experience of owning a DeLorean?
>> And that is really the sad  part.
>> 
>> 







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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 16:52:46 +0200
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>
Subject: AW: Relay clicking with my AC on.


Greg,

close but not true - fuses don't wear but they oxydize !
A bad connection on a high current fuse makes the fuse box melt !

No need to replace them very often. Once when you buy the car
and then maybe the 20A and 30A fuses every one or two years
or check them more often when the fuse box started to melt already.

Elvis


You aren't the first person I have heard mention replacing all of the fuses.
Why do some recommended this?  Fuses are not wearable items.

Greg





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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 15:29:34 -0000
From: "lordshill1" <lordshill_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: "Professional" Mechanics

Hello all:  I must strongly agree with Dave.  I took my Delorean to a 
shop in Florida (All Car Shop Inc, Kissimmee) for some repairs 
shortly afte I had picked it up.  The AC had died and the car was 
overheating.  The owner stated he had worked on Deloreans before and 
since the prior owner had used Don from California I suggested he 
order parts from there.  Don promptly shipped the parts to the shop.  
The shop charged me a 40% markup on the parts.  The car is an early 
vin (0893) and needed a compressor. The shop owner stated that it 
also needed an accumulator and a sensor for the lower coolent pipe.  
The accumulator that was sent was for a latter vin car and the shop 
owner decided to modify the accumulator.  He did some aluminum 
welding and cutting.  In addition to this he also made up another 
hose.  Needless to say the AC stayed in for less than 24 hours.  On 
the overheating the switch burned out a week latter.  The total 
repairs and parts amounted to over $1,700.00.  I have since replaced 
all the repairs and such that he made through a local shop in Western 
NY that specializes in custom autos.  A major factor there is they 
are not afraid to call for technical support from various venders.  
I'm about to send all the bad parts back to the shop.  We'll see what 
happens...oh, by the way:  ASE Mechanics is on his card.  I could 
have avoided all this if I had called a local owner or two prior to 
going to that shop.  Time was of the essance and it was costly.  Roy  
#0893











--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...> 
wrote:

>> Any service shop is only as good as their worst mech on a bad day.
>> Good help is very hard to find and even harder to keep. There are 

few

>> places that can be recomended for service work on a Delorean or any
>> exotic, rare car for that matter. It is difficult for even more
>> modern, daily drivers. If you are unlucky enough to have an unusual
>> problem with a car you are at the mechanic's mercy and guesswork. 

This

>> is one of the main reasons I offer advice for Deloreans. In too many
>> cases you must UNDO previous incorrect work before you can fix the
>> underlying, origional problem. After 20 years and several owners and
>> the various shops that had their hands on the car there are always
>> things that must be redone correctly. Most mechanics in America are
>> not familiar with Bosh fuel injection but it doesn't seem to stop 

them

>> from working on it! And all that education, parts, and time is at 

YOUR

>> expense!
>> David Teitelbaum
>> vin 10757
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Soma576_at_dml_a... wrote:
>
>>> >  
>>> > In a message dated 7/13/2005 9:54:42 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
>>> > racuti1_at_dml_d... writes:
>>> > 
>>> > Sir, I  have two lugnuts on my DeLorean that have become too 

tight 

>>> > for me to break  loose. Can you put your impact gun on them for 
>>> > me? "Sure" he says. The guy  spins them loose and promptly 
>>> > overtightens them with the pneumatic impact  gun. I now have one 
>>> > stripped lugnut that I can't get  off.
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> >







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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 15:39:47 -0000
From: "Brandon" <morpheus34711_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Steering Column Rattle

Jeremiah,

I had a similar issue with my steering column and thought that I just
had a bad bushing... Until Tony and his guys down _at_dml_ DMCFL (shameless
plug) checked it out and told me it was my upper shaft, U joint, both
Tie Rod ends and rack boots that needed replacing.  I assume that one
or a combination of these things was the root of my problem.  (I'm
guessing it was just the shaft and U joint)  Just a little heads up,
the upper shaft is like $364 new... Does anyone know why this part is
so expensive?

-Brandon
#4205

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Jeremiah Montee <angelito03299_at_dml_y...>
wrote:

>> Here's one that started on the trip home from
>> Birmingham to Pensacola.
>> 
>> My steering column has some kind of rattle.  It will
>> rattle almost ANYTIME.  When you shut the door, turn
>> the wheel to the left or the right, take a bump in the
>> road, take a corner hard - anytime.  I have tightened
>> the steering wheel adjustment knob underneath the
>> kneepad as tight as possible with no effect.  The
>> whole column appears to be a bit loose, as I can grab
>> the wheel and move the whole column up about maybe
>> half an inch.  If I put both hands on the wheel and
>> apply downward force while driving, it will not
>> rattle, but if I "casually drive", it will rattle to
>> no end.  This is not the normal "give" in the steering
>> column with a 25 year old suspension; this "rattle"
>> whenever the car interacts with any bump, groove,
>> pothole, pebble, curve in the road is BEYOND
>> irritating.  I'm going to tighten every bolt,nut, and
>> screw in the footwell area of the driver's
>> compartment.  Would these symptoms be indicative of a
>> loose connection at the point where the steering
>> column and steering rack meet?  I have no play in the
>> steering itself; it is as tight as can be.
>> 
>> Jeremiah
>> 
>> 
>> 		
>> ____________________________________________________
>> Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 
>> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs







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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 11:08:34 -0500
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Relay clicking with my AC on.

If it turns out to be cycling switch.( $7.95 ) You can change it out and if
it still cycles to much after you do the adjustment in the settings of the
mode switch and blower motor, you can change the setting in the cycling
switch about 1/4" clock and cut down on the cycling. Keep in mind that doing
this will begin to over burden then system, so don't keep on turning.
John Hervey



-----Original Message-----
From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
Of Jim Reeve
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 7:50 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: Relay clicking with my AC on.


Yes! It is normal, but perhaps a little fast. As John Macias
mentioned, you may be a little low on freon.  The sound is the cooling
fan relay switching on and off with the AC compressor. Curious, do you
have the plywood board installed over the electrical compartment? If
not, the clicking is very prevelant; if so, it should be very muted.

In a stock wiring setup, there is no relay for the compressor itself
as Gus Schlachter said there was.  Perhaps his car is modified. The
compressor is directly powered through fuse #10, then the mode switch,
then the pressure switch(s), then tapped by dioes for switching on the
cooling fans, then into the compressor.

I find it unlikely that you have a circuit breaker popping every 5
seconds like David Teitelbaum and John Hervey mentioned, they dont
work that fast and are not nearly as loud as a relay.

As Joseph Kuchan said about the compressor clutch itself
engaging/disengaging, it is possible to hear that in the car and think
it is a relay if you have a leaky rear window.  My car was like that
until I re-sealed it.  Now I can only hear the cooling fan relay
activating in unison with the compressor (because I do not have the
plywood board over the electrical compartment).  Hope this answers
your question!

Jim Reeve
MNDMC - Minnesota DeLorean Club
DMC6960

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "sweetp01569" <paul.sweet_at_dml_f...> wrote:

>> I haven't done anything yet with regards to electrical systems in my
>> car.  It has the Fan Relay bypass for the blue relay.  When I run the
>> AC, I hear annoying relay clicks behind me, every five seconds or so.
>> Is this normal?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Paul








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Message: 7
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 16:01:51 -0000
From: "Dave" <v-davidj_at_dml_microsoft.com>
Subject: Re: Emissions

Hi John...

You are absolutely correct.  I'm sorry...my previous statement was a
bit misleading, please allow me to re-state.  I had called the state
DOL & emissions department with regards to an engine swap.  They said
that by federal law I am not allowed to modify the car from its
original setup.  I asked "then how do people get away with all these
custom hot rods, engine swaps, etc.?"  He said that for cars that had
emissions equipment as stock, you are not supposed to modify them
whereas some of the older hot rods (i.e. 57 Chevy) were built before
the requirements were in place and are grandfathered in.  As for newer
cars he said that they don't check the cars to ensure that they have
the original equipment in them and he listed off various reasons as to
why they don't check for OEM equipment...which is probably a good
thing because even if I had a stock DeLorean, the emissions guy would
have red flagged me because he thinks those cars are supposed to have
2.9 liter 4 cylinder engines.  I suppose I could have complied by
unplugging two spark plugs.  ;p

Because the Washington Emissions folks don't check for OEM equipment,
the DOL person told me that I should be fine as long as I pass the
emissions test, and as long as I didn't volunteer the fact that I had
changed the engine.  Doing so could result in a serious fine up to
~$10k...or they could simply just fail me on emissions.

In Washington State, this is the last year for emissions tests on cars
built in 1981 and older.  So I won't need to worry about my other
DeLorean which has a Cobra engine…it may pass emissions as I have CATs
for it, but since it's a V8 instead of a V6 there might be an issue. 
Who knows…honestly I am not anywhere near the title of an emissions
expert, I am just regurgitating what I was told last week by those
claiming to hold such titles.

Information on Washington emissions can be found at
http://www.emissiontestwa.com
You can even check my results via vin#.  I have an 81 Grey Auto, #
6406.  Note to everyone; please don't post my VIN or personal
information on the forum.

Also WA State emissions law is RCW 70.120
http://www.leg.wa.gov/RCW/index.cfm?fuseaction=chapterdigest&chapter=70.120

As for your CAT...I don't know if you have seen a BAE Turbo setup or
not, but it doesn't leave any room for the stock CAT.  The angel of
the stock CAT piping also doesn't work on the BAE setup.  Your CAT
looks like it's a direct replacement for the stock CAT, so I doubt it
would work in this case.  However, if you can have custom CATs made,
it would be possible to slip a CAT into the BAE setup, but it would
have to be thin and small.  If my car didn't pass emissions, I was
looking at putting in a thin high flow CAT from an NSX.  The only
problem was the NSX CAT I was looking at was ~$700!  Doh!

Sorry for the lengthy e-mail…I am a serious windbag!

Thanks!
Dave


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_s...> wrote:

>> Dave, I was told and please correct if wrong that any car that came with
>> emissions control ( cat ) by federal law has to be maintained as

such. Even

>> though it won't be inspected it sounds like the state is countering the
>> Fed's.
>> If you want to maintain the car with a cat I have the new

performance one on

>> the web site now. They are a bolt on performance replacement, all SS

with

>> heat shield built in.
>> John Hervey
>> http://www.specialtauto.com/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
>> Of Dave
>> Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 12:15 AM
>> To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [DML] Re: Emissions
>> 
>> 
>> Well lucky for me, this is the last year for emissions inspections for
>> cars made in 1981 for Washington State.   :) 
>> 
>> In Washington, they don't care what you do to the car as long as it
>> passes the emissions specs set for that particular car.  That's great
>> for people who like to modify cars i.e. engine swaps.
>> 
>> Did I forget to mention that the emissions guy insisted that DeLorean
>> offered two engines for their cars?  Apparently, aside from the 2.8
>> Liter V6, there was a 2.9 Liter 4 cylinder.  I told him to just make
>> sure he marked me down as having the V6.
>> 
>> Oh the humanity!
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> Dave
>> 
>> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...>

wrote:

>>> > The PRV happens to be a very efficient little package, especially for
>>> > it's vintage. Strictly speaking though, even if your emission numbers
>>> > are within the limits for the year, if, on visual inspection, they
>>> > find you do not have a catalytic converter and the car is supposed to
>>> > have one, they can fail you. That is why there is a sticker on the
>>> > door stating such. In some states ANY modifacation, like a turbo,
>>> > needs to have a special waiver too. I do not know if anyone ever got
>>> > the waiver for any turbo set-up. Of course California is probably the
>>> > only state that would be a problem.
>>> > David Teitelbaum
>>> > vin 10757
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <v-davidj_at_dml_m...> wrote:
>>
>>>> > > Not sure if anyone would be interested in this information, but

I feel

>>>> > > it's a little bit noteworthy for the forum with regards to

information

>>>> > > about our cars.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I have an automatic single turbo DeLorean.  The turbo setup is a

BAE,

>>>> > > which means that the catalytic converter is absent from the car.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I took it in for an emissions test last week, and the car passed

with

>>>> > > flying colors.  I don't recall off hand what the #s were, and I

don't

>>>> > > have my emissions statement with me as I write this, but I do recall
>>>> > > that the #s were well below the minimum requirements.  If anyone is
>>>> > > interested in the specific #s, I would be happy to pass those along.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I live in Washington State.  I don't know how Washington's emissions
>>>> > > standards fairs with others.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > FYI
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Thanks!
>>>> > > Dave Jacobs
>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
>> moderators_at_dml_d...
>> 
>> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see

www.dmcnews.com

>> 
>> To search the archives or view files, log in at
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>> Yahoo! Groups Links







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Message: 8
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 11:17:21 -0500
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: "Professional" Mechanics

Scott, They were thinking that insurance wouldn't come after him if they
were to tight, but if they came loose they would.
John Hervey




-----Original Message-----
From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
Of Scott Cagle
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 8:19 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DML] "Professional" Mechanics


I had a similar problem.  I had some tires changed at a local shop that
shall remain Sears (real simple, right?)  A few months later, I packed the
car up and moved to Florida.  Didn't have a whole lot of time to drive it
between the next few months, and when I finally did, I had a flat tire. When
I tried to get the tire off, no luck. Stripped off the lugnut sheath.  So I
took it to a friend of mine who had an airgun, and same thing. They wouldn't
move.  So I took it to a local tire shop who tried so hard to get them off
that they finally stopped because they were afraid the posts were going to
break. We ended up having to cut them off with a torch and replace all
around.  I would love to find the guy at sears who did that and ask him WHAT
THE HELL WERE YOU THINKING?






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Message: 9
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 11:21:48 -0500
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Spoke too soon! - Thanks for tips on brake job.

Sounds like the master cylinder has gone out. To maintain the 2 year
warranty I have new master cylinders and can extend the package price of
$69.95.
John Hervey
http://www.specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/images/brake-master-cyl.jpg






-----Original Message-----
From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
Of sweetp01569
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 6:02 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: Spoke too soon! - Thanks for tips on brake job.


After all the pats on the back I gave myself for doing the brakes,
they started failing on my ride home yesterday!  I was coming to a
stop, pressing the brake pedal, when the pedal lost pressure and
slowly lowered to the floor!   I had to pump them quickly to build
up some pressure, and worked my way home that way, making sure I had
enough room in front of me.

I immediately suspected that I didn't tighten a line fitting or
bleeder screw enough, but when I got home, I didn't notice any fluid
leaking in the driveway.  I haven't checked anything yet, and will
this weekend.  I am hoping it is a simple answer.  Could I hve a big
air pocket left in the system, is the brake cylinder failing?  A
little puzzled, but hope to solve tomorrow.

Paul
VIN 10944

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "sweetp01569" <paul.sweet_at_dml_f...>
wrote:

>> I wanted to thank those who gave me guidance on my recent brake

job

>> I did myself.  I replaced all the original calipers (and original
>> brake shoes still on the car - 27,000 miles) with the loaded

cadmium

>> coated rebuilds from SpecialT Auto (not plugging the vendor, as I
>> also purchase from all of them, to share and support those who
>> support our fine cars, but nice pieces, nonetheless!)
>>
>> I was only able to get the driver's side front and rear rotors off
>> the car, even after tips on removing the rear spacer plates and
>> exhaustive attempts with a rubber mallet, then a 2 x 4 and hammer

(I

>> have a souvenir blood blister behind my middle fingernail from

that

>> hammer - Ouch!)
>>
>> I was going to take them to a local shop for turning, but since I
>> could only get two off, I kept them all on the car instead and
>> sanded them with a rotary attachment on my drill with #80

sandpaper,

>> as suggested by David Teitelbaum (Thanks David, it worked like a
>> charm to eliminate the glaze, and saves rotor material in the long
>> run!).
>>
>> I bought stainless break lines, but had trouble freeing the old
>> lines (was bending the frame mounts trying the free the nut, and

the

>> rears seemed a little challenging to get my hands in there - I'll
>> wait till someone else can put them in, perhaps during a visit to

PJ

>> Grady's).
>>
>> After installing the new loaded calipers and bleeding the brakes,
>> the car handles so much better!  The brakes feel like new (No more
>> squealing and shimmying (my passenger front caliper was never

fully

>> releasing the rotor).
>>
>> Feels good to complete a job myself and bringing the Delorean to a
>> condition closer to that when it was new.
>>
>> Thanks again everyone!
>>
>> Paul
>> VIN 10944







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Message: 10
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 16:24:44 -0000
From: "Dave" <v-davidj_at_dml_microsoft.com>
Subject: Re: Emissions

Hey Marc...

Good question....I don't know.  It doesn't appear to be on my report.

I just called the emissions dept and asked why NOx wasn't on my
report.  To give you a background, our state recently had a major
overhaul of our emission testing facilities.  It was costing too much
money for the state run emissions facilities and keep them up to date.
 So they recently privatized it.  The nice thing about the
privatization is that the facilities are cleaner, it's cheaper to get
an emissions test done, they have newer better equipment that checks
for more chemicals, and they are able to use OBDII.  But as the state
was making the transition, the budget was cut and they were not able
to include NOx and other chemicals they wanted to check for.  He said,
and please understand that I am just relaying what he said, that the
state only had enough resources to check a specific # of chemicals and
not all of them.  NOx was one of the chemicals not included because
there was no measurable figure on which to base what NOx emissions
should be.  So it was tabled....for now.  He said that it will be
included in the future, but he couldn't give me any type of time table.

Thanks!
Dave Jacobs


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_y...> wrote:

>> What about NOx?
>> 
>> 
>> --- Dave <v-davidj_at_dml_m...> wrote:
>> 
>
>>> > Both.  They measure emissions at idle and under
>>> > load.
>>> > 
>>> > Hydro Carbons (PPM)
>>> > -------------------
>>> > Cruise Limit: 150
>>> > Cruise Emissions: 53
>>> > 
>>> > Idle Limit 220
>>> > Idle Emissions 40
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > CO (%)
>>> > -------------------
>>> > Cruise Limit: 1
>>> > Cruise Emissions: 0.31
>>> > 
>>> > Idle Limit 1.2
>>> > Idle Emissions 0.38
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > CO+C02 (%)
>>> > -------------------
>>> > Cruise Limit: 6
>>> > Cruise Emissions: 6.51
>>> > 
>>> > Idle Limit 6
>>> > Idle Emissions 6.68
>>> > 
>>> > 02 (%)
>>> > --------------------
>>> > Cruise Limit: NA
>>> > Cruise Emissions: 11.85
>>> > 
>>> > Idle Limit NA
>>> > Idle Emissions 11.76
>>> > 
>>> > My CO+CO2 % looks high, but my idle was at 1500 and
>>> > wouldn't settle
>>> > down (just discovered tonight that a wire on the
>>> > microswitch was
>>> > loose)...but the emissions guys calculated in the
>>> > high RPM and said I
>>> > easily passed.
>>> > 
>>> > Thanks!
>>> > Dave
>>> > 
>
>> 
>> 
>> __________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
>> http://mail.yahoo.com







________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 11
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 11:33:53 -0500
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Emissions

Thanks Dave, I wasn't trying to find fault but you just clarified what I had
heard.
Thanks
John


-----Original Message-----
From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
Of Dave
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 10:02 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: Emissions


Hi John...

You are absolutely correct.  I'm sorry...my previous statement was a
bit misleading, please allow me to re-state.  I had called the state
DOL & emissions department with regards to an engine swap.  They said
that by federal law I am not allowed to modify the car from its
original setup.  I asked "then how do people get away with all these
custom hot rods, engine swaps, etc.?"  He said that for cars that had
emissions equipment as stock, you are not supposed to modify them
whereas some of the older hot rods (i.e. 57 Chevy) were built before
the requirements were in place and are grandfathered in.  As for newer
cars he said that they don't check the cars to ensure that they have
the original equipment in them and he listed off various reasons as to
why they don't check for OEM equipment...which is probably a good
thing because even if I had a stock DeLorean, the emissions guy would
have red flagged me because he thinks those cars are supposed to have
2.9 liter 4 cylinder engines.  I suppose I could have complied by
unplugging two spark plugs.  ;p

Because the Washington Emissions folks don't check for OEM equipment,
the DOL person told me that I should be fine as long as I pass the
emissions test, and as long as I didn't volunteer the fact that I had
changed the engine.  Doing so could result in a serious fine up to
~$10k...or they could simply just fail me on emissions.

In Washington State, this is the last year for emissions tests on cars
built in 1981 and older.  So I won't need to worry about my other
DeLorean which has a Cobra engine…it may pass emissions as I have CATs
for it, but since it's a V8 instead of a V6 there might be an issue.
Who knows…honestly I am not anywhere near the title of an emissions
expert, I am just regurgitating what I was told last week by those
claiming to hold such titles.

Information on Washington emissions can be found at
http://www.emissiontestwa.com
You can even check my results via vin#.  I have an 81 Grey Auto, #
6406.  Note to everyone; please don't post my VIN or personal
information on the forum.

Also WA State emissions law is RCW 70.120
http://www.leg.wa.gov/RCW/index.cfm?fuseaction=chapterdigest&chapter=70.120

As for your CAT...I don't know if you have seen a BAE Turbo setup or
not, but it doesn't leave any room for the stock CAT.  The angel of
the stock CAT piping also doesn't work on the BAE setup.  Your CAT
looks like it's a direct replacement for the stock CAT, so I doubt it
would work in this case.  However, if you can have custom CATs made,
it would be possible to slip a CAT into the BAE setup, but it would
have to be thin and small.  If my car didn't pass emissions, I was
looking at putting in a thin high flow CAT from an NSX.  The only
problem was the NSX CAT I was looking at was ~$700!  Doh!

Sorry for the lengthy e-mail…I am a serious windbag!

Thanks!
Dave


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_s...> wrote:

>> Dave, I was told and please correct if wrong that any car that came with
>> emissions control ( cat ) by federal law has to be maintained as

such. Even

>> though it won't be inspected it sounds like the state is countering the
>> Fed's.
>> If you want to maintain the car with a cat I have the new

performance one on

>> the web site now. They are a bolt on performance replacement, all SS

with

>> heat shield built in.
>> John Hervey
>> http://www.specialtauto.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
>> Of Dave
>> Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 12:15 AM
>> To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [DML] Re: Emissions
>>
>>
>> Well lucky for me, this is the last year for emissions inspections for
>> cars made in 1981 for Washington State.   :) 
>>
>> In Washington, they don't care what you do to the car as long as it
>> passes the emissions specs set for that particular car.  That's great
>> for people who like to modify cars i.e. engine swaps.
>>
>> Did I forget to mention that the emissions guy insisted that DeLorean
>> offered two engines for their cars?  Apparently, aside from the 2.8
>> Liter V6, there was a 2.9 Liter 4 cylinder.  I told him to just make
>> sure he marked me down as having the V6.
>>
>> Oh the humanity!
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Dave
>>
>> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_w...>

wrote:

>>> > The PRV happens to be a very efficient little package, especially for
>>> > it's vintage. Strictly speaking though, even if your emission numbers
>>> > are within the limits for the year, if, on visual inspection, they
>>> > find you do not have a catalytic converter and the car is supposed to
>>> > have one, they can fail you. That is why there is a sticker on the
>>> > door stating such. In some states ANY modifacation, like a turbo,
>>> > needs to have a special waiver too. I do not know if anyone ever got
>>> > the waiver for any turbo set-up. Of course California is probably the
>>> > only state that would be a problem.
>>> > David Teitelbaum
>>> > vin 10757
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <v-davidj_at_dml_m...> wrote:
>>
>>>> > > Not sure if anyone would be interested in this information, but

I feel

>>>> > > it's a little bit noteworthy for the forum with regards to

information

>>>> > > about our cars.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I have an automatic single turbo DeLorean.  The turbo setup is a

BAE,

>>>> > > which means that the catalytic converter is absent from the car.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I took it in for an emissions test last week, and the car passed

with

>>>> > > flying colors.  I don't recall off hand what the #s were, and I

don't

>>>> > > have my emissions statement with me as I write this, but I do recall
>>>> > > that the #s were well below the minimum requirements.  If anyone is
>>>> > > interested in the specific #s, I would be happy to pass those along.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I live in Washington State.  I don't know how Washington's emissions
>>>> > > standards fairs with others.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > FYI
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Thanks!
>>>> > > Dave Jacobs
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
>> moderators_at_dml_d...
>>
>> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see

www.dmcnews.com

>>
>> To search the archives or view files, log in at
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>> Yahoo! Groups Links







To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at
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Yahoo! Groups Links











________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 12
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 11:35:09 -0500
From: john_at_dml_specialtauto.com
Subject: re-Never Ending FV Problems


Dani,

 Un plug the O2 sensor from the rear fire wall and re adjust the fuel mixture screw in the air flow meter till you get a smooth idle. (Make sure
the 3  screws on the throttle body are all screwed in and the idle speed motor valve is open or running as we say.) I would then turn the adjustment screw counter clock till the  engine starts to shutter which will tell you your all the way down or real close,  then turn it clock about 1/8th turn and it should smooth out. Then re  attach the 02 sensor and give it a few minuets to adjust it's self. Let me  know. Normally you should never have to move the screw adjustment more  than one turn either direction. Once that is don't if you install a new 02 sensor it should keep everything just right pending no other trouble.

 John Hervey
 www.specialtauto.com

>>
>>
>>  -----Original Message-----
>
>>> >From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com]On
>
>> Behalf
>>  Of stainlessilusion
>>  Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 4:35 PM
>> To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>>  Subject: [DML] never ending FV troubles
>>
>>
>>  I've got the worst up and down idle ever, no >matter what kind ofadjustment the CO screw >has. I'm sure the problem is partly because  
>>my  FVwill run and then shut off. I've had a chance >today to play  around with it...If I unhook the >frequency valve of it's fuel lines, I can hold the
>>relay closed and the FV will run all day long  (opened up original relay to hold contacts down). >Once I hook it to it's line it will run for a few >minutes, and then stop working all together. I
>>cleaned out the little screen inside the inlet, but >can't figure out why it won't stay running. The >ground is clean and brand new
>>connector, obviously the FV runs so I doubt it's >bad...I have a new relay installed... When the >lines full of fuel I can open the contacts of relay

 >to have the FV shut off, and then close it, it will  >run for a  few secs and then wind down slowly to >a  very low buzz, or it will

>>shut off completely. What >the hell? -----Dani B. >#5003



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 13
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 16:41:09 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: re-Never Ending FV Problems

This procedure will get you close if you have NO vacuum leaks and the
Lambda is functioning correctly. It also assumes the ignition system
is in good shape. A lot of assumptions.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, john_at_dml_s... wrote:

>> 
>> Dani,
>> 
>>  Un plug the O2 sensor from the rear fire wall and re adjust the

fuel mixture screw in the air flow meter till you get a smooth idle.
(Make sure

>> the 3  screws on the throttle body are all screwed in and the idle

speed motor valve is open or running as we say.) I would then turn the
adjustment screw counter clock till the  engine starts to shutter
which will tell you your all the way down or real close,  then turn it
clock about 1/8th turn and it should smooth out. Then re  attach the
02 sensor and give it a few minuets to adjust it's self. Let me  know. 






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 14
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 11:47:37 -0500
From: DMCVIN6683 <dmcvin6683_at_dml_wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Spoke too soon! - Thanks for tips on brake job.

Sounds like your Master Cylinder is shot.

Inside the Master Cylinder it develops a wear pattern through the 
years. When you bleed the breaks you push the o-ring seals inside the 
master cylinder past the wear marks and they develop little cuts in 
them and then fail.

When i bleed brakes i put a hunk of wood under the pedal so when you 
"pump them up" you wont push the master cylinder past the wear marks 
and damage it.

Mark V



On Jul 15, 2005, at 7:02 AM, sweetp01569 wrote:


>> After all the pats on the back I gave myself for doing the brakes,
>> they started failing on my ride home yesterday!  I was coming to a
>> stop, pressing the brake pedal, when the pedal lost pressure and
>> slowly lowered to the floor!   I had to pump them quickly to build
>> up some pressure, and worked my way home that way, making sure I had
>> enough room in front of me.
>>
>> I immediately suspected that I didn't tighten a line fitting or
>> bleeder screw enough, but when I got home, I didn't notice any fluid
>> leaking in the driveway.  I haven't checked anything yet, and will
>> this weekend.  I am hoping it is a simple answer.  Could I hve a big
>> air pocket left in the system, is the brake cylinder failing?  A
>> little puzzled, but hope to solve tomorrow.
>>
>> Paul
>> VIN 10944
>>
>> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "sweetp01569" <paul.sweet_at_dml_f...>
>> wrote:
>
>>>> I wanted to thank those who gave me guidance on my recent brake
>
>> job
>
>>>> I did myself.  I replaced all the original calipers (and original
>>>> brake shoes still on the car - 27,000 miles) with the loaded
>
>> cadmium
>
>>>> coated rebuilds from SpecialT Auto (not plugging the vendor, as I
>>>> also purchase from all of them, to share and support those who
>>>> support our fine cars, but nice pieces, nonetheless!)
>>>>
>>>> I was only able to get the driver's side front and rear rotors off
>>>> the car, even after tips on removing the rear spacer plates and
>>>> exhaustive attempts with a rubber mallet, then a 2 x 4 and hammer
>
>> (I
>
>>>> have a souvenir blood blister behind my middle fingernail from
>
>> that
>
>>>> hammer - Ouch!)
>>>>
>>>> I was going to take them to a local shop for turning, but since I
>>>> could only get two off, I kept them all on the car instead and
>>>> sanded them with a rotary attachment on my drill with #80
>
>> sandpaper,
>
>>>> as suggested by David Teitelbaum (Thanks David, it worked like a
>>>> charm to eliminate the glaze, and saves rotor material in the long
>>>> run!).
>>>>
>>>> I bought stainless break lines, but had trouble freeing the old
>>>> lines (was bending the frame mounts trying the free the nut, and
>
>> the
>
>>>> rears seemed a little challenging to get my hands in there - I'll
>>>> wait till someone else can put them in, perhaps during a visit to
>
>> PJ
>
>>>> Grady's).
>>>>
>>>> After installing the new loaded calipers and bleeding the brakes,
>>>> the car handles so much better!  The brakes feel like new (No more
>>>> squealing and shimmying (my passenger front caliper was never
>
>> fully
>
>>>> releasing the rotor).
>>>>
>>>> Feels good to complete a job myself and bringing the Delorean to a
>>>> condition closer to that when it was new.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks again everyone!
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>> VIN 10944
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
>> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>>
>> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see 
>> www.dmcnews.com
>>
>> To search the archives or view files, log in at 
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 15
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 16:51:01 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Emissions

The short answer is probably that the Federal Government is not
requiring the State of Washington to measure it so why spend to do it
if they don't have to? The Federal Government has different
requirements for every State depending on the local air quality,
population density, industry, etc. As an example, not all States have
had to put vapor recovery on gasoline dispensing nozzels, at least not
yet. The States have to show compliance with the Federal Government to
continue to get Federal money so they will do only what they HAVE to
do to keep the money coming. California is one of the exceptions, they
try to do MORE than the Federal government requires. In any case if
the other #'s are good then the NOx will usually be OK. There is not a
whole lot you can do to affect NOx.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <v-davidj_at_dml_m...> wrote:

>> Hey Marc...
>> 
>> Good question....I don't know.  It doesn't appear to be on my report.
>> 
>> I just called the emissions dept and asked why NOx wasn't on my
>> report.  To give you a background, our state recently had a major
>> overhaul of our emission testing facilities.  It was costing too much
>> m







________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 16
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 17:02:53 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: "Professional" Mechanics

Better too tight than too loose. In the 60's and 70's mechanics (and I
use that term loosely) would routinely break off the lug nuts and
studs on Chrysler products. Chrysler used left-hand threads on the
left side of the car. The idea was they would tend to tighten
themselves. In 71 Chrysler gave up on that idea, too many broken studs
and it wasn't really necessary. The guys doing tire work are not
rocket scientists, it is a low paying job. It is one of those
"starter" type jobs where you can take a new hire and put him on it
with little training. Like oil changes. These jobs are
"bottom-of-the-barrel" kind of jobs. Unfortunately they can have very
serious consequences if done improperly! Every shop can tell you a
horror story about the guy who forgot to tighten the wheel lugs and
the customer drove out but not back! As I have said before any shop is
only as good as it's worst mechanic on a bad day. And they all have
bad days. It is how they stand behind the problems that separate out
the good shops from the bad ones. A good shop will care about it's
reputation.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_s...> wrote:

>> Scott, They were thinking that insurance wouldn't come after him if they
>> were to tight, but if they came loose they would.
>> John Hervey
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>>







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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 17
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 10:20:37 -0700
From: "Alan Roberts" <twodelo2_at_dml_earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Relay clicking with my AC on.

Hi Warren, et al,

You might try using the anti-oxidation compound sold at most hardware, home 
improvement (?) stores, etc.  It is recommend for the aluminum/copper 
connections that happen in house hold electrical systems that may still have 
aluminum wiring.  A small tube is rather inexpensive and will go a long way. 
It should spread on the fuse contacts, probably relay contacts, and perhaps 
many of the electrical connectors in the car.  I haven't had many years of 
experience with this material, but it claims to be just the thing for these 
areas.  I checked it for conductivity, and seems to have none.  My guess is 
that it is a silicon  grease with graphite suspended in it.  Where I have 
used it, hasn't hurt.   I like it for the sections of the motor driven 
antennas.  Provides lubrication.

Good luck,

Al

Al Roberts
twodelo2_at_dml_earthlink.net 






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 18
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 10:38:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Cobra Conversion?

Cobra engine?

More information please... Photos??


--- Dave <v-davidj_at_dml_microsoft.com> wrote:
<SNIP>

>> built in 1981 and older.  So I won't need to worry
>> about my other
>> DeLorean which has a Cobra engine…it may pass

<SNIP>

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Message: 19
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 17:24:27 -0000
From: "mrvic20" <faycraig.newton_at_dml_virgin.net>
Subject: coolant leak throgh otterstat seal

Hi

I had a major leak throught the otterstat seal.

I got a new pipe and seal and otterstat from dmch and even though it 
was a
tight fit it still leaks once the coolant got hot.

Any ideas...do i need a new thermostat...? Anyone else had this
problem.

This is the last thing i need to do b4 my car is on the road

many thanks

Craig








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Message: 20
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 12:58:56 -0500
From: Gus Schlachter <gus_at_dml_austin.rr.com>
Subject: replacing the fuses

The fuses do wear out...when they are chronically overheated.  My #7 fuse 
disintegrated when I tried to pull it out.

I've also cleaned them before with abrasion, but this makes them thinner 
(and thus looser).

In essence, the DeLorean electrical system was under-engineered, such that 
additional resistance from tarnished or loose connectors is enough to make 
things melt.  Cleaning the electrical connectors and ground points is part 
of regular maintenance.


Gus Schlachter
VIN #4695
Austin, TX




>> You aren't the first person I have heard mention replacing all of the 

fuses.

>> Why do some recommended this?  Fuses are not wearable items.
>> 
>> Greg



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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Message: 21
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 11:33:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeremiah Montee <angelito03299_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: My DMC Joe Experience




>> This should have come out
>> sooner. If a member
>> of this list isn't happy with a vender I don't
>> understand why it took
>> so long to find out. I hope it was a case of good
>> intentions gone bad.
>> He seemed to be genuine. 


That's simple.  Some people here are scared to death
of:

A.  Being blacklisted
B.  "Biting the hand that feeds them"
C.  Having to explain to a vendor next time they speak
to them why they said whatever they did on the DML

Just my guesses - what do I know =P?

Jeremiah

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Message: 22
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 11:42:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeremiah Montee <angelito03299_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Steering Column Rattle

Thank you Brandon for your heads up.  In terms of the
tie rods and the boots, I just replaced the entire
rack and pinion under a year ago, so I should be
covered there.  In terms of the U-joint and upper
shaft = pray =P.  In all seriousness though, I did
"flip" myself in the seat with my head near the pedals
to get an idea of what was going on.  I found the
"black doughnut" aka the steering column bushing.  It
is literally popped out of the fiberglass body in its
24 year old, twisted and shredded glory.  There is
nothing in the fiberglass body now but the column. 
Hopefully a new bushing will be the end of it.  If not
though, at least I'll have a good idea where to start
next  ;) .

I want to take a quick moment to thank everyone for
their quick responses to this.  I think I got 5 or
more answers in under 12 hours to this problem, and
that is just awesome.  Thank you everyone for your
quick responses; I greatly appreciate it!  To give
everyone a glimpse into the future, I'll be doing this
bushing job, installing a new temperature gauge (to
help solve a recent post of mine), and installing LEDs
in the binnacle cluster (minus the battery light) all
that day, so this was kind of a blessing in disguise. 
Wish me look everyone  ;) .

Jeremiah

--- Brandon <morpheus34711_at_dml_yahoo.com> wrote:


>> Jeremiah,
>> 
>> I had a similar issue with my steering column and
>> thought that I just
>> had a bad bushing... 



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Message: 23
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 18:44:11 -0000
From: "cbowman3169" <cbowman3169_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: This should have come out sooner.

If a member of this list isn't happy with a vender I don't understand 
why it took so long to find out.


David --- I did not want to post anything negative about Joe while he 
had my car. After I got my car back it did take me a while to 
discover all the work that was not performed and after that was the 
court case. I was even hesitant to post anything now, while I am 
trying to recover my losses, but I did want to alert others as soon 
as I felt I could, since this could take quite a while. 

I think some people do not want to advertise the type of work that 
they have done on their cars. They would prefer to keep the work 
history to themselves to use as they see fit, when they sell the car 
in the future. So even if they lost some time and money, they would 
prefer not to make it a public event. The one individual that Rob 
Grady mentioned in his letter, that I posted on my court case 
website, emailed me and was a bit unhappy that I mentioned his car 
and publicised work that had been done on his car. Also I blacked out 
his address for him (my mistake). Other than that he was supportive.

But most of all, I think many of us are hesitant to take on one of 
the "DeLorean Gods". We depend on them for help, parts, and sevice. 
You have to be willing to not do business with that vendor before you 
post anything negative. People in the Atlanta area, where Joe is 
located, did not historically have many choices for service; this 
complicates things and makes the decision more difficult.

Maybe people think that the other vendors may be less willing to do 
business with you if you are seen as a bad actor or a risk; 
especially if you are seen as someone who might take your complaints 
public. I wonder if the vendors are going to look at me a little 
diferently now.

I also wonder if people will think that somehow I brought this on 
myself....."Not DMCJOE!!!, there must be something wrong with this 
Bowman guy." A natural reaction given that I am an unknown and DMCJOE 
is seen as someone who has answered many questions on the list and 
who's byline is "We're here to help you".

All this being said, I appreciate your encouragement to others to 
speak out, but it can be a difficult decision.

Regards --- Chris










   






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 24
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 19:21:40 -0000
From: "sweetp01569" <paul.sweet_at_dml_fmglobal.com>
Subject: Re: Spoke too soon! - Thanks for tips on brake job.

Thanks Mark,

When I install a new master cylinder, do I still need to be 
concerned with this, or is it OK to push the pedal to the floor when 
I bleed them.

Thanks,

Paul

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, DMCVIN6683 <dmcvin6683_at_dml_w...> wrote:

>> Sounds like your Master Cylinder is shot.
>> 
>> Inside the Master Cylinder it develops a wear pattern through the 
>> years. When you bleed the breaks you push the o-ring seals inside 

the 

>> master cylinder past the wear marks and they develop little cuts 

in 

>> them and then fail.
>> 
>> When i bleed brakes i put a hunk of wood under the pedal so when 

you 

>> "pump them up" you wont push the master cylinder past the wear 

marks 

>> and damage it.
>> 
>> Mark V
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jul 15, 2005, at 7:02 AM, sweetp01569 wrote:
>> 
>
>>> > After all the pats on the back I gave myself for doing the 

brakes,

>>> > they started failing on my ride home yesterday!  I was coming to 

a

>>> > stop, pressing the brake pedal, when the pedal lost pressure and
>>> > slowly lowered to the floor!   I had to pump them quickly to 

build

>>> > up some pressure, and worked my way home that way, making sure I 

had

>>> > enough room in front of me.
>>> >
>>> > I immediately suspected that I didn't tighten a line fitting or
>>> > bleeder screw enough, but when I got home, I didn't notice any 

fluid

>>> > leaking in the driveway.  I haven't checked anything yet, and 

will

>>> > this weekend.  I am hoping it is a simple answer.  Could I hve a 

big

>>> > air pocket left in the system, is the brake cylinder failing?  A
>>> > little puzzled, but hope to solve tomorrow.
>>> >
>>> > Paul
>>> > VIN 10944
>>> >
>>> > --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "sweetp01569" <paul.sweet_at_dml_f...>
>>> > wrote:
>>
>>>> >> I wanted to thank those who gave me guidance on my recent brake
>>
>>> > job
>>
>>>> >> I did myself.  I replaced all the original calipers (and 

original

>>>> >> brake shoes still on the car - 27,000 miles) with the loaded
>>
>>> > cadmium
>>
>>>> >> coated rebuilds from SpecialT Auto (not plugging the vendor, as 

I

>>>> >> also purchase from all of them, to share and support those who
>>>> >> support our fine cars, but nice pieces, nonetheless!)
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I was only able to get the driver's side front and rear rotors 

off

>>>> >> the car, even after tips on removing the rear spacer plates and
>>>> >> exhaustive attempts with a rubber mallet, then a 2 x 4 and 

hammer

>>> > (I
>>
>>>> >> have a souvenir blood blister behind my middle fingernail from
>>
>>> > that
>>
>>>> >> hammer - Ouch!)
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I was going to take them to a local shop for turning, but since 

I

>>>> >> could only get two off, I kept them all on the car instead and
>>>> >> sanded them with a rotary attachment on my drill with #80
>>
>>> > sandpaper,
>>
>>>> >> as suggested by David Teitelbaum (Thanks David, it worked like a
>>>> >> charm to eliminate the glaze, and saves rotor material in the 

long

>>>> >> run!).
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I bought stainless break lines, but had trouble freeing the old
>>>> >> lines (was bending the frame mounts trying the free the nut, and
>>
>>> > the
>>
>>>> >> rears seemed a little challenging to get my hands in there - 

I'll

>>>> >> wait till someone else can put them in, perhaps during a visit 

to

>>> > PJ
>>
>>>> >> Grady's).
>>>> >>
>>>> >> After installing the new loaded calipers and bleeding the 

brakes,

>>>> >> the car handles so much better!  The brakes feel like new (No 

more

>>>> >> squealing and shimmying (my passenger front caliper was never
>>
>>> > fully
>>
>>>> >> releasing the rotor).
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Feels good to complete a job myself and bringing the Delorean 

to a

>>>> >> condition closer to that when it was new.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Thanks again everyone!
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Paul
>>>> >> VIN 10944
>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > To address comments privately to the moderating team, please 

address:

>>> > moderators_at_dml_d...
>>> >
>>> > For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see 
>>> > www.dmcnews.com
>>> >
>>> > To search the archives or view files, log in at 
>>> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >








________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 25
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 12:27:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marc Levy <malevy_nj_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Emissions

Sure there is!  Have a working Catalytic converter..  

 :) 


--- David Teitelbaum <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net> wrote:

<SNIP>

>> OK. There is not a
>> whole lot you can do to affect NOx.
>> David Teitelbaum
>> vin 10757
>> 
>>


__________________________________________________
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