Subject:[DML] Digest Number 2764
From:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Date:27 Jul 2005 19:19:55 -0000
To:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com

There are 24 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: High Idle - test 1 results...
From: "Derek" <derek.grozio_at_dml_verizon.net>

2. Installing moving glass in drivers door
From: "Tom Tait" <TTait_at_dml_BRCWEB.com>

3. Re: Re: Strange VB car show behavior
From: "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>

4. RE: Re: Question and strange car show behavior
From: "Joseph Kuchan" <josephkuchan_at_dml_hotmail.com>

5. Re: Re: Question and strange car show behavior
From: "Jason" <rowejj_at_dml_tds.net>

6. ps on car reliability
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

7. Delorean is reliable for those that know what they are doing.
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

8. Re: remove shif knob
From: Qumefox <qumefox_at_dml_brazi.net>

9. Brake question
From: "byrondelorean" <celiambyron_at_dml_msn.com>

10. Re: New D Owner - more repair questions
From: Qumefox <qumefox_at_dml_brazi.net>

11. Re: Re: Rebuilding the PRV
From: "Robert Lingo" <rlingo_at_dml_midsouth.rr.com>

12. De Lorean Fonts
From: "gullwingdoors" <gullwingdoors_at_dml_yahoo.com>

13. RE: Re: Question and strange car show behavior
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net

14. Musty odor
From: "byrondelorean" <celiambyron_at_dml_msn.com>

15. Re: Re: Question and strange car show behavior
From: kjc <ckevinj_at_dml_gmail.com>

16. Re: Roof trim replacement
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>

17. D for sale in MA (attn Jay Sisto!)
From: toscano2_at_dml_ix.netcom.com

18. Build up on valves "while in there"
From: "Charles Major" <charlesmajor_at_dml_hotmail.com>

19. RE: Re: Strange VB car show behavior
From: "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>

20. MONSTER GARAGE SUCKS!!!!!
From: "logiclymydearwatson" <logiclymydearwatson_at_dml_yahoo.com>

21. AW: High idle
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>

22. AW: Re: Idle Speed Motor / Cooling
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>

23. DeLorean Reliability was: Strange car show behavior
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>

24. Re: DMCH Seat Covers Review
From: "Dave" <v-davidj_at_dml_microsoft.com>





Message: 1
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 01:22:11 -0000
From: "Derek" <derek.grozio_at_dml_verizon.net>
Subject: Re: High Idle - test 1 results...

I have posted the previous question of the high idle here, at tamirs forum, and at dmc help, 
and now I have several different answers! I am hoping its not too serious of a problem to 
correct. 

However, I decided to go with the easiest check first, per videobob, I checked the idle speed 
motor or idle regulator (not sure the correct name for this) and when the key is in the "on" 
position, I hear no whirring. I unplugged it and started the car, and the idle went from 
1800-2000 range, down to 1200-1400 range. I did not want to drive the car because I am 
not sure if running with that unplugged can cause any damage.

Now, is there a way to check if it is the motor that is seized and needs to be replaced, or if it 
is something from the computer causing the motor not to receive the needed power? Or does 
the fact that the idle dropped and I have no whirring an automatic sign of a bad idle speed 
motor?

Note...this car was stored for several years so the mention of something rusting or seizing in 
it is quite possible.

Thanks,
-Derek #10084







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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 18:22:52 -0700
From: "Tom Tait" <TTait_at_dml_BRCWEB.com>
Subject: Installing moving glass in drivers door

Its time to install the moving glass in my driver's door - but I can NOT get
it to seat on the rear track, it gets jammed the last .5 inch or so. It
drips right onto the front track just fine.  There must be a trick.  I've
already removed the channel from the fixed glass so it's not a clearance
issue there.  

Advice?  I hate trying to force glass around.

Tom 
10902





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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 20:49:52 -0500
From: "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Strange VB car show behavior

I know that the AZ club is strong, you guys are lucky to have such active 
members.
I have met many of them and they are all great.
- VB


>>From: Johnny Sawyer <johnny.sawyer_at_dml_gmail.com>
>>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>>To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: Re: [DML] Re: Strange VB car show behavior
>>Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 15:17:18 -0700
>>
>>Just FYI, the local Pantera club here in AZ are practically partners
>>with our club (the AZ-D).  In fact, we just did an indoor cart racing
>>event with them a few weeks ago.
>>
>>We also are on the local Mini Cooper Club mailing list and are invited
>>to their British Car Show annually.  They have us out for their
>>cruises, breakfasts and get-togethers whenever they go out.
>>
>>The DeLorean is hardly a "bastard" in Arizona.
>>
>>Johnny
>>5518
>>
>
>>>> > >
>>>> > > However, none of the other car clubs respect it.
>>>> > > The British clubs hate it, the Italian clubs will not allow it in
>>
>>> > the shows
>>
>>>> > > either.
>>>> > > snip <
>>>> > >
>>>> > > What do I know anyway?
>>>> > > -VB





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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 20:39:13 -0500
From: "Joseph Kuchan" <josephkuchan_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Question and strange car show behavior

Hmmm...

I think it is important to restore or replace about everything that is NOT 
RIGHT on *any* 25 year old car, whether those problems were present as the 
car came off the line or if they crept into the car over time. Once that is 
done, the the car will be reliable!  That holds true for a DeLorean, 
Porsche, MG, Ferarri, Triumph, Land Rover, Rolls, Chevy, Pontiac, Ford - you 
name it.

BTW, for me, *part* of the fun of working on these 25 year old cars IS 
working on them. Eventually, once everything is sorted out, I think they are 
as reliable as any other 25 year old car that someone has taken the time and 
care to restore to the point of reliability.

At any car show there are usually lots of '57 Chevys, '69 Camaros, '65 
Mustangs etc. They are clearly reliable cars that the owners have no second 
thoughts about driving around in spite of their age. Why? Well look at them 
closely and you will see that they have done complete jobs of replacing and 
restoring just about everything. (Quite often a much more complete job than 
most DeLorean owners have done with their cars.)

My $.02 worth.

-Joe Kuchan



>>Sure, the PRV and the DeLorean is a pretty good and reliable car as long as
>>you
>>pretty much restore and replace about everything on the car.
>>Of course, a 20+ year old car needs work... but the problems I mentioned
>>were present as the cars rolled off the line.
>>It is these problems that keep our happy vendors in business.
>>If you don't have most of what Grady or Hervey sells then chances are
>>you don't own a daily driver.
>>If our cars were so perfect, we wouldn't need this forum now would we?
>>
>>- VB







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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 20:57:22 -0500
From: "Jason" <rowejj_at_dml_tds.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Question and strange car show behavior

               So why do you own one if they are so bad in your opinion? I've
had mine for over 5 years and it's been one of the most reliable cars I've
ever had. This list is for owners and others that appreciate the car, not to 
bash the car. Make yourself happy and buy a boring Honda or something
and be quiet. 

                             Jason #5903
 




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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 22:33:15 EDT
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: ps on car reliability

I also do not see any other car at the same age being bought to be driven  as 
a daily driver
I wonder why
If these other cars were driven as much as the DeLorean is I wonder how  they 
would hold up and this is not to take away from other cars the Stainless  and 
plastic chassis lets us get away with a lot more than say a 70's  car with 
bad steel 
Although those cars are dear to my heart as I grew up with them but they  
rusted.
 
We have a unique car and WE are still driving them daily in a lot of  cases.
And it has AIR oh what a relief it is. 98 degrees yesterday
 
Ken


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 22:10:46 EDT
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Delorean is reliable for those that know what they are doing.

I find the cars very reliable. And something that I find reassuring is as  
you know I have put 6 DeLoreans back on the road with the cars that had not run  
for years.  In one case it had not run in 10 years.  That car in  particular 
is the best running car I did and the engine was no problem.  
 
The PRV is an easy engine to get running since most of the problems are on  
top and NOT in the engine itself.
 
Put the car back the way it is supposed to be and turn the key.
 
For those at the Chicago Tech session a  few years ago that car was a  
disaster but in one day it was cleaned out enough that it started and I actually  
drove it that evening.

I work on Jaguars, Mustangs and a variety of other  cars and I would work on 
a D over them any day.  
1  I can get  parts reasonably priced
2. I can reach the stuff in the car and work on it
3. It so far has always worked once together
4. There is great support
 
So if you have a problem take it to a mechanic that knows what they are  
doing.  But most people work on their own and this car is good for  that.
 
The next raffle car need some cosmetic work but after not running for about  
5 years we fired it up in Chicago again and I have driven it every day  
RELIABLY.  It has become my daily driver and I am loving it. 
 
So if your car is not reliable 
 
Do your preventative maintenance and get your car up to good working  
condition and enjoy driving a great car.  
 
PS 
 
I have been driving an automatic and despite having less get up and go than  
the stick
I like how it drives in the city and after I raffle off this one I may  start 
looking at cars again with a preference towards the automatic.
 
Ken


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 21:47:34 -0500
From: Qumefox <qumefox_at_dml_brazi.net>
Subject: Re: remove shif knob

You might try using something similar to an oil filter wrench I used to
have (it vanished on me at some point like my tools usually end up doing
:P) Basicly what it consisted of was a metal handle with a rubber strap
you used to circle the oil filter and under the other end. Friction held
it in place as long as you pulled the handle in the direction you wanted
it to turn. It seems like i've seen commercials for a tool similar to
this within the past couple of years. Was called a strap wrench or
something like that.  Sounds like an alternative to use when you'd
rather not resort to vice grips..

Chris Murley
VIN# 03209
http://badger.brazi.net/delorean/


Alistair McCann wrote:


>>I have this same problem and think that the guy before me glued his on... I
>>really want to change the shift boot and was wondering how to get around
>>this if I cant get the gear knob off??
>>
>>Alistair McCann.





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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 02:38:14 -0000
From: "byrondelorean" <celiambyron_at_dml_msn.com>
Subject: Brake question

Dear forum members, when I step on the brake pedal, it feels as thou 
the pedal has too much play before making contact with the brakes. 
Maybe 4"-5". The brakes do not feel different when I pump them. 
I brought it to a nearby brake shop; but am leary to have them touch 
the car. I get the confused look; and my feeling is to just drive 
away. 
Dave Bauerle recently worked on the car and suggested it may be the 
master cylinder. I would like to get this fixed in a suburb Detroit 
area. Is there a formal way of explaining whats going on with my 
brakes with a local brake shop? The last shop said " I don't know what 
the pedal is supposed to feel like". Could it be more than just the 
master cylinder, maybe the brake power booster? 
If both items need to be replaced, should I order every gasket and 
connection piece associated for the removal & installation?

Thanks for the help.

Byron







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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 21:16:54 -0500
From: Qumefox <qumefox_at_dml_brazi.net>
Subject: Re: New D Owner - more repair questions

This actually sounds quite similar to the D I bought  and went and
picked up on the 16th. (My 15 years of wanting one finally over) When I
got the car, fuse #8 was melted in the fuse block and had been bypassed
and replaced with an inline fuse and #12 was blown. I replaced #12 with
a good fuse, but so far, I haven't had any luck making the dome light,
trunk light, or engine compartment light work. The switches for the
trunk and engine light test good as do the bulbs for them all. After
cleaning contacts and soldering the taillight board, I have all the
external lights working again, as well as all the dash/console lights.
My horn works on ocassion.. so I don't know whats it with it. I'm still
waiting on the relay kit and replacement fuse block I ordered from
specialTauto at the beginning of last week (among other things. I'm
starting to get a wee bit impatient with waiting and not having my calls
returned...)  before I start doing much in the way of troubleshooting
electrical problems as I want to make sure that melted fuse block and
old relays aren't part of my problems.

Derek wrote:


>>Not that I trust to work on this car. I dont think its anything crossed, as the car was hardly
>>driven. I think its just corrosion and age that has taken its course on this car. Electric-wise
>>right now I need to fix the engine compartment light, which I think has something to do
>>with the switch (may just buy a whole new assembly). However, I need to find out why the
>>horn is not working, as well as try to determine why the dome lights do not work correctly.
>>Should be fun...






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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 21:55:27 -0500
From: "Robert Lingo" <rlingo_at_dml_midsouth.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Rebuilding the PRV

Thanks for the ifo Richard.

Lingo # 2034


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard" <dmc_driver_at_dml_yahoo.ca>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 1:33 PM
Subject: [DML] Re: Rebuilding the PRV



>> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Robert Lingo" <rlingo_at_dml_m...> wrote:
>
>>>> I'm in the process of repairing the damage I caused to my engine
>
>> during a
>
>>>> test run last month.  I'm in need of a crank-shaft pully for my
>
>> engine and
>
>>>> was wondering if anyone happened to have a spare one to sell.
>>>>
>>>> One more thing; what size piston rings does the PRV call for?  Can I
>>>> purchase them from a local parts store, i.e. AutoZone, NAPA, etc.
>
>> etc?  I've
>
>>>> searched the archives and came up empty.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks yall,
>>>> Lingo, #2034
>
>>
>>
>> Ask the store to run a search on their computer for the Volvo B28F
>> engine.  My local NAPA store does in fact have it listed. (I was
>> looking for an oil filter).  Try that and I'll bet they have rings for
>> it as well.  If not, or if they say they have to order them in, you
>> might as well just order a set yourself from one of the DeLorean vendors.
>>
>> Richard
>> Vin 5853






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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 03:01:03 -0000
From: "gullwingdoors" <gullwingdoors_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: De Lorean Fonts

Alright, so apparently "DMC" and "Rustproof Body" are the only De 
Lorean fonts out there at the moment.  I have had Fontographer 
recomended by two members as a good font creator program.  The problem 
is, that as Shannon Y said, it's "a bit pricy."  Yeah.  I got on ebay 
to look for it.  I only found two.  One still had over three days 
left.  the other was a buy it now for just under $400!  Anyone know 
where I can get it cheaper.  (like alot cheaper)  Thanks.

Chuck







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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 02:34:39 +0000
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net
Subject: RE: Re: Question and strange car show behavior

Welcome to the world of low volume automobiles.  The DeLorean
is certainly not unique compared to other manufacturers.  The difference
is that DeLorean did not survive long enough to have provided their
own fixes for the problems you cite.  This actually makes the problem
worse, because there was a long time in the wilderness before the
current vendor environment matured where there were an awful 
lot of hacks performed on these cars by largely well-meaning but
underinformed mechanics.  New DeLorean owners have to wade
through these "repairs" to put the car back to where it was intended.
This can be expensive and frustrating depending on their expectations.
If they stick with it and avoid the siren song of the quick hack, they 
will eventually wind up with a car that is at least as reliable as other
cars of the era.

In my opinion, this is exactly why we need to have a vigorous concours
for the DeLorean.  Without a documented description of what the
cars should be, new owners have no way to judge the condition
or value of any particular car they might be interested in.  Cars with
"improvements" like one-off engine installs, gearbox changes, 
electrical modifications and the like are the ultimate hacks.  Imagine
you are a new owner of one of these cars and you have a problem.
There is NO WAY the established DeLorean community can help
you.  You are at the mercy of whoever you can find to work on 
your car.  At that point, every repair is an experiment because there
is no body of knowledge to fall back on.

Things really haven't gotten better with time.  Porsche is dealing with
chronic rear main seal failures in the Boxster and 911.  They also 
have problems with intermediate shaft failures.  I'm getting a new 
engine for mine because I was "lucky" enough to have both
problems.  Of course, there is no guarantee that the new engine
won't have the same problems.  So, does that mean I should try 
to cram a small block Chevy into it?  I don't think so...

--
Mike


-------------- Original message from "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>: -------------- 



>> You know, I mis-spoke. 
>> I should not have said "unreliable". 
>> Despite all the goofy problems we all have, the engine will usually fire up 
>> and go... 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 02:48:31 -0000
From: "byrondelorean" <celiambyron_at_dml_msn.com>
Subject: Musty odor

Since my car has been sitting since 85' the restoration I had done 
recently did not include removing the musty odor. I plan on removing 
the seats and LH & RH carpeting this weekend. I removed the panel from 
the back of the seats, the foam and covering appear perfect, thou I 
can smell musty odors when I put my nose to it. The carpet on the 
passenger side was dampened from a clogged A/C drain line; signs of 
mold are now present underneath. The car was covered in mold when I 
took it out of storage. It cleaned up well, everything looks new 
accept the smell. It is driving me insane. I have managed to reduce 
the smell; but want to eliminate it. I have black interior VIN 3947 
Automatic. I think DMCH told me a while ago that the driver and 
passenger floor carpet is out of stock. I must deal with what I have. 

Byron

Byron






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Message: 15
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 22:01:36 -0500
From: kjc <ckevinj_at_dml_gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Question and strange car show behavior


>> 
>> providing that you don't have a fuel pump problem,



Not on the DMC, yes on the 10 year-newer Ford pickup. Also a severe 
fuel-sender problem on one of the tanks, you didn't write that one down.

high idle, computer burn out, 


Again, on the Ford, not the DMC. And actually, even the Ford has been pretty 
nice to me.

brake system and all the hoses your car should be pretty safe.


Just the Ford again... though the D has hit 40k, so I really ought to 
inspect the pads for wear.

of your car as long as your door lock solenoids are working OK.

>> If your AC fan stops blowing, I hope you can roll your windows down 
>> because
>> most people can't.



Damn Ford again.. stupid locks still a pain (elec borked, passenger movement 
nigh impossible) and window motors near death. DMC is a-ok. 

Sure, the PRV and the DeLorean is a pretty good and reliable car as long as

>> you
>> pretty much restore and replace about everything on the car.
>> Of course, a 20+ year old car needs work... but the problems 



So I don't know. There were some issues coming off the line, but comparing 
~10k units including pre-production to what Ford does for a new model let 
alone an F-150 that has been around forever (Noah owned right after he got 
rid of the big boat) and I think it is suprisingly bug free. My old Ford may 
or may not catch fire after I use the cruise control. It's a gamble. I've 
spent way more on the Ford this year than I have in the DMC in two, and I 
begrudge every dollar on it because I adore the D and want to improve it a 
bit.
Don't get me wrong. It's a nice pickup-- roomy and strong. It just needs a 
lot of paint, it's got some rattles, needs working locks and windows, needs 
a fuel sender fixed, the A/C might be about to give me some issues.
But I'd rather just drive it and spend the money on the performance exhaust 
from DMCH to get that fun sound and a wee bit more power. The Hyundai's 
don't generally give me any trouble, but there are some others that I could 
use a bit more power.

-Kevin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 04:01:01 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>
Subject: Re: Roof trim replacement

A bunch of times. Not very hard. 4 ways to go:

Take the car to an upholstery shop;
Take them out yourself and have a shop recover them;
Take them out, buy some material, and recover them yourself;
Buy pre-covered ones from the Vendors and swap them. 

What did you order? If you ordered the pre-covered ones it will be 
pretty obvious when you see them. Remove the old ones, put in the new 
ones, glue the edges. Also the vendor ought to be giving you some 
instructions. 

Buy a fir-tree trim-removal tool from any auto parts store. It looks 
like a cross between a screwdriver and a fork. Don't just yank the 
panels off the doors or you will rip the cardboard. Use the tool. 

The two roof parts slide forward to come out. Remove the visors first. 
First the front, then  the back. 

Use 3M Interior Trim adhesive, read and follow directions to glue the 
edges to the body. 

One trick - if the rear center panel refuses to go back on all the way, 
remove the clip from the roof and grind about 1/8" off the ends so it 
goes past the rivets easier. 

Make sure the roof parts are trimmed back far enough that the cloth 
does not come out the other side of the rubber weatherstrip, or it will 
wick water under the rubber. 

Dave S

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "bigkidtoys1955" <bigkidtoys_at_dml_a...> 
wrote:

>> Has anyone ever replaced the door and roof liners.... How hard was 
>> it??? Is there a better approach to use??? step by step 

instructions??? 

>> I need to learn it soon ... just ordered a complete set for my D... 
>> 
>> Thanks
>> Scott 4091








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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 01:09:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: toscano2_at_dml_ix.netcom.com
Subject: D for sale in MA (attn Jay Sisto!)

Yes I do live near this car, but at the moment I am far away on vacation/moving trip, so I don't have the time to follow up...

A friend told me there is an 81 advertised in the local paper, located in Leominster, MA, the phone listed is 978-840-1679. 

Wondering if anyone knows about this car and anything furthur, VIN, etc.

(BTW for all I know it's on eBay, I only have email access and can not get to an Internet browser right now)...




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Message: 18
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 04:27:44 +0000
From: "Charles Major" <charlesmajor_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Build up on valves "while in there"


I am in the valley of death and can see the valve tops, man they look bad 
for a car with 800 miles. I have had fuel problems before and remember lots 
of spitting and black smoke before the fix. Can I de-carb these puppies? I 
am doing the water return pipe, but what else should I do? Was running with 
slight miss which started all this: Tune up, filter, injector cleaning, and 
vac hoses.
Charles






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Message: 19
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 23:05:45 -0500
From: "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Strange VB car show behavior

Rich, I have never bashed the DeLorean in public, or to a non-owner.
The discussion we have here is for our ears only.

The PRV itself is fairly reliable, but has a lot of problems as compared to 
a regular
old American V8.
Heck, pick any of them...from the old Ford flats to the chevy 350's.
They are really simple and really strong.
Have you seen the new Dodge SRT-4 Neon?
The only other Dodge faster is the Viper.
This might make a great engine for our cars!

Do you have something against changing engines?
Maybe you would care to explain what the reason for pulling a PRV and 
stuffing in
a Grand National was Rich?

I show the car and give out facts and try to educate people about the
car by giving them facts and killing mis-information.
I never talk bad about the car, and I take it to an average of 3 showings 
per month
and pass out about 100+ flyers at each show.
I am just trying to promote the car and to improve public opinion.
My post was BITCHING about what I am hearing, and trying to do something
about it instead of turning a blind eye.

If I didn't like the car, love the car, eat and breath the car...... I would 
just get rid of it.
I have no plans on doing that.

So don't get so defensive!

When it comes to DMCH wanting to sell engines, their motivation might 
possibly be that
they have a 30 foot tall stack of them that is 30 feet deep.
They want to sell engines at $6000+ per pop.
I would say that is some good motivation.

All in all, the PRV itself is a good engine if you have it properly 
maintained and
upgraded, however reliability means nothing without horsepower and torque.
It would make a great engine for say...a dunebuggy, or other 1500lb vehicle.
As for the almost 3000lb. DeLorean we need at least 250HP to keep up with
the average Ford Taurus.
If you have a perfectly tuned PRV, you might have 130HP.
Not very impressive.

Listen Rich, I might not have been around as long as you and you might
know a lot more about the engine than I do.
I would be anxious to hear from you how to make our engines better
rather than to be chastised by you.

I know you have been doing a lot to promote the "good name" of the DeLorean.
Speaking of which, my buddy just called me to tell me that he just got 
through
watching Discovery channel and saw a DeLorean being run over by a tank while
they called it a "failure".....yeah, heck of a good job promoting the car!
(OK, that was a low shot)
Just reminding you that sometimes our good intentions go straight to hell!

- Videobob



>>From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>
>>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>>To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: [DML] Re: Strange VB car show behavior
>>Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 21:03:35 -0000
>>
>>VB,
>>
>>The next time you wonder why some people in the DeLorean community
>>do not see eye to eye with you, re-read this "stuff" you posted.
>>
>>I'm sure the major vendors love to see "your opinion" about how you
>>think the DeLorean is unreliable and slow, in fact, the slowest car
>>on the road and your chances of breaking down or going up in flames
>>is highest in a DeLorean than most any other car you can think of.
>>
>>I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that no other car clubs
>>respect the DeLorean and that British clubs hate it.  I guess this
>>must be from the "years" of displaying your DeLorean or maybe this
>>is just how some car clubs or British clubs think in Texas.
>>
>>I'm sure your conclusion "the PRV sucks" has equal merit behind it
>>due to your extensive research.  I guess DMCH should stop building
>>the high performance version of the PRV, since they must already
>>know the PRV sucks and just start stuffing V8's into DeLoreans.
>>
>>As much as I hate to hear "the guy on the street" at car shows
>>providing mis-information about the DeLorean, the PRV, etc., it
>>is even more disturbing to think a DeLorean owner is displaying
>>his car and providing these type of opinions to car show patrons.
>>
>>As demonstrated in past posts, VB is the more than eager to tell
>>everyone about his achievements and all of his "good points", so
>>why would the same person focus on "your bad points" of a DeLorean
>>based upon stigmas, here-say and myths on reliability and "baggage".
>>
>>If you do not think your "opinions" have a negative impact on the
>>Delorean community / vendors, then feel free to call your "buddy"
>>Rob Grady to ask him question(s) about DeLorean stock certificates.
>>This post is not intended as a flame, just a dose of reality.
>>
>>Later,
>>Rich W.
>>


[very long quote trimmed by moderator]




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Message: 20
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 04:32:05 -0000
From: "logiclymydearwatson" <logiclymydearwatson_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: MONSTER GARAGE SUCKS!!!!!

I watched with absolute horror as TWO Deloreans were butchered by that tattooed meth-
scooter freak Jesse Bullock. Who in their right mind would let that foul mouthed ex-con 
destroy two perfectly good cars?  

What were they thinking?






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Message: 21
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 07:56:07 +0200
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>
Subject: AW: High idle

Did you play with the throttle spool lately ?
Did the wire jump out and now doesn't allow the butterflys
to close completely ?
Is the microswitch not being pushed corretly anymmore ?

Or was the idle motor disconnected ? I mean did somebody pull the connector
?
Happened to me yesterday, too after I tested my idle motor and forgot to
put the connector back on.

I bet it's just a mechanical thing.

elvis



Right now my car, when started, idles at about 1800 and slowly creeps
upwards of 2000.
Once the car is warmed up by driving for a few minutes, the idle sits steady
at 2500. Don't
know if it matters, but the car is a 5 speed. Does anybody have any idea
what could be
causing this? Thanks!

-Derek
#10084






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Message: 22
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 08:06:07 +0200
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>
Subject: AW: Re: Idle Speed Motor / Cooling


Well, mine survived 2 minutes of testing it continuously without any
trouble. Yours don't ?

here the pictures:

first coil:
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/6575/cimg92547oh.jpg

second coil:
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/5259/cimg92568sr.jpg

close view:
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/2229/cimg92580in.jpg

1A _at_dml_ 12V = 12W -> not enough to burn the coils !
At least not within a few seconds and under regular conditions. 
In my case the engine also was still hot from driving.

Resistance of the single coils is around 14 Ohm.

Elvis & 6548




ok, You try it with 12 volts direct. I have plenty of new ones in stock
waiting.
John Hervey






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Message: 23
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 12:15:22 -0000
From: "cruznmd" <racuti1_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: DeLorean Reliability was: Strange car show behavior

You are, as others have said, entitled to your opinion but I disagree 
with what you posted below. Many of those problems were not problems 
that the car had when it rolled off of the assembly line. They are 
problems from neglect.

The fuel system especially, is plenty reliable as long as you don't 
let it sit and varnish up for 2+ years. The automatic transmissions 
shifted fine for many years and are only problematic now because the 
computer is exposed to engine heat and the elements causing the 25+ 
year-old capacitors to break down.

Pretty much the only part of your diatribe that I'm willing to cede 
to you is the lock module. It was under-engineered to begin with. You 
did neglect to mention the under-strength crumple tube and using 
wiring and relays of an insufficient gauge in the engine cooling fan 
system. Those are minor and were easily corrected in my opinion.

Lastly, before you continue crapping on your car, have you read the 
news lately? Ford is recalling vehicles left and right because the 
cruise control switches are burning cars to the ground. GM and 
Chrysler issued recalls last winter for cars who's throttle cables 
are freezing up in the winter time. Sound familiar anyone? These are 
long established companies and they STILL haven't got it perfect.

Stop comparing your car to modern-day vehicles. Have you read the 0-
60 mph times against the Corvette, Porsche and 280z of the same 
years? They were at least competitive, even though they weren't 
outstanding. 

Rich 
--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_h...> 
wrote:

>> You know, I mis-spoke.
>> I should not have said "unreliable".
>> Despite all the goofy problems we all have, the engine will usually 

fire up 

>> and go...
>> providing that you don't have a fuel pump problem, hot start 

problem, cold 

>> start problem, etc...
>> If none of those problems are present and the car starts you might 

have to 

>> deal with
>> high idle, computer burn out, or an electrical short in your lights 

that 

>> might set the dash
>> on fire. If all of that is OK and you have made sure to replace 

your fuels 

>> system,
>> brake system and all the hoses your car should be pretty safe.
>> If you have an auto like mine....maybe it will go into 3rd today?
>> If everything is running ok, hopefully you won't have any trouble 

getting in 

>> or out
>> of your car as long as your door lock solenoids are working OK.
>> If your AC fan stops blowing, I hope you can roll your windows down 

because

>> most people can't.
>> 
>> Sure, the PRV and the DeLorean is a pretty good and reliable car as 

long as 

>> you
>> pretty much restore and replace about everything on the car.
>> Of course, a 20+ year old car needs work... but the problems I 

mentioned

>> were present as the cars rolled off the line.
>> It is these problems that keep our happy vendors in business.
>> If you don't have most of what Grady or Hervey sells then chances 

are

>> you don't own a daily driver.
>> If our cars were so perfect, we wouldn't need this forum now would 

we?

>> 
>> - VB



[moderator snip]




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Message: 24
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 06:08:50 -0000
From: "Dave" <v-davidj_at_dml_microsoft.com>
Subject: Re: DMCH Seat Covers Review

Hey Jake...

Thank you for the glowing compliment!
It's good to know that I was able to help someone…and good to know
that someone likes my writing.   :) 

If you want to tighten up the leather a bit, you can, carefully, run a
hair dryer over it.  Or leave it in the sun.  Otherwise, it should
tighten up naturally over time.

Your new seat covers look really nice!  I like the extra padding...the
seats look more comfortable.

Thanks again!
Dave Jacobs


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Jake Kamphoefner" <jakekamp_at_dml_s...> wrote:

>> 
>> All,
>> 
>> Some may remember me recently posting that I was looking to replace

my seat 

>> covers.  I had seen the DMCH grey covers before installed on a car,

but I 

>> don't recall ever seeing the black ones.  Only hours after my post

hit the 

>> DML, James Espey had sent me pictures of the black covers installed

on a car 

>> so I ordered them.
>> 
>> First, I'll admit, I am extremely picky with cosmetic details on the

car.  I 

>> don't at all mind replacing OEM pieces, but I want them to look

exactly as 

>> they did from the factory.  When my seat covers arrived, they were

packaged 

>> nicely, shipped inside out.  I noticed the covers have much more

padding 

>> than the originals and are manufactured much more nicely.  The

stitching was 

>> almost exactly the same as the originals and the grain is nearly

identical 

>> to the other interior pieces.  I did have some mild complaints, though, 
>> granted it was at the height of that post-sale cognitive dissonance:  I 
>> thought the covers might be too "wrinkly" and the color was not what

I was 

>> used to.  My old covers were a little bit darker black with a more

"slick" 

>> appearance.  However!.....
>> 
>> When I started to remove my old skins, I felt much better.  I found

a piece 

>> of the seat vinyl that was tucked under the seat, never being

exposed to 

>> sun, skin, armor-all, leatherique, or anything else.  I compared

that piece 

>> with the new covers to find they were pretty damn close.  Remarkably 
>> similar, actually.  As far as the wrinkles go, I visited Tamir's

site and 

>> looked up all the pictures I could of a new DeLorean interior in 1981. 
>> Guess what?  Lots of wrinkles.  I always knew there were some, but

that new 

>> leather was very loose on the seats back in '81 -and uncle Jake was all 
>> happy again.
>> 
>> How to install them??  Easy!  Grab my trusty winter issue of Gullwing 
>> Magazine with the exceptionally entertaining and informative article

written 

>> by Dave Jacobs.  Dave explains how to do it all, with pictures too!

 Thanks 

>> Dave.  I installed them myself only muttering a few obscenities over a 
>> leisurely weekend.  It's a much more time-consuming job than it

appears, but 

>> I wouldn't classify it as exceptionally difficult.  I was a little 
>> discontent with the fit of the headrests, but I just pulled those

boys as 

>> tight as I could and they came out pretty nice.
>> 
>> My recommendation: *buy them*.    I've spent the last week or two

driving on 

>> them and I love them; and they are much softer than the originals. 

I've 

>> gotten lots of compliments on the quality of the seats.  They look

great, 

>> and my car smells like a new pair of shoes.  Mmmmmmmm boy...  If anyone 
>> wants to see the "half-way" comparison of the old and new seats, see

the 

>> root directory of the "Photos" section.  --And yes, I did replace

both of 

>> them  :-) 
>> 
>> For me and 1063,
>> Jake Kamphoefner







________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


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