Subject:[DML] Digest Number 2766
From:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Date:28 Jul 2005 02:06:32 -0000
To:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: MONSTER GARAGE SUCKS!!!!!
From: "coreysmoo" <coreysmoo_at_dml_hotmail.com>

2. Re: MONSTER GARAGE SUCKS!!!!!
From: "Joe OBrien" <joeyoseppijoe_at_dml_yahoo.com>

3. Re: MONSTER GARAGE SUCKS!!!!!
From: "stainless_dreams" <fwise3_at_dml_delorean.com>

4. Dunking booth
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

5. Re: Re: Strange VB car show behavior
From: David Cox <DMCox_at_dml_delorean.com>

6. Re: Musty odor
From: "gullwingmag" <gullwing-magazine_at_dml_sbcglobal.net>

7. Re: remove shif knob (WOOHOO!)
From: Ryan Wright <ryanpwright_at_dml_gmail.com>

8. Door roof seal dimensions
From: "L. Sandel" <ls_at_dml_chickencow.csv.cmich.edu>

9. AW: Re: Question and strange car show behavior
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>

10. Re: Re: Strange VB car show behavior
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>

11. RE: High idle
From: <rob_at_dml_pjgrady.com>

12. Re: Brake question
From: Jeremiah Montee <angelito03299_at_dml_yahoo.com>

13. RE: Door roof seal dimensions
From: <rob_at_dml_pjgrady.com>

14. Re: Re: Musty odor BG products AC cleaner
From: Packodenton_at_dml_aol.com

15. Keeping Things In Perspective
From: "Michael & Denise" <luckeys71_at_dml_cox.net>

16. Re: Dunking booth
From: Jeremiah Montee <angelito03299_at_dml_yahoo.com>

17. Any Delorean activties planned in So Cal this summer??
From: Richard Rosales <calif93030_at_dml_yahoo.com>

18. AW: High idle
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>

19. Odd Starting Issue
From: Todd Nelson <tan5732_at_dml_rit.edu>

20. Modified DeLoreans
From: "Bernie" <bmanderville_at_dml_comcast.net>

21. FRAME
From: "bigkidtoys1955" <bigkidtoys_at_dml_aol.com>

22. Re: Musty odor
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

23. RE: 1/18 Sunstar model
From: "darryl" <dtinnerstet_at_dml_centurytel.net>

24. Keys
From: "Josh Krady" <josh_at_dml_joshandjessica.com>

25. Re: MONSTER GARAGE SUCKS!!!!!
From: "f14dflyer" <f14dflyer_at_dml_comcast.net>





Message: 1
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 18:02:57 -0000
From: "coreysmoo" <coreysmoo_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: MONSTER GARAGE SUCKS!!!!!

In the scene where the team arrives in a caravan of DeLoreans, the narrator says "You 
gotta give these guys credit for letting themselves look like complete dorks on 
television."  WTF?

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "logiclymydearwatson" 
<logiclymydearwatson_at_dml_y...> wrote:

>> I watched with absolute horror as TWO Deloreans were butchered by that tattooed 

meth-

>> scooter freak Jesse Bullock. Who in their right mind would let that foul mouthed 

ex-con 

>> destroy two perfectly good cars?  
>> 
>> What were they thinking?








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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 17:45:18 -0000
From: "Joe OBrien" <joeyoseppijoe_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: MONSTER GARAGE SUCKS!!!!!

[Moderator note: DeLorean-realted comments about the television show are welcome on the DML, but at this point there is no need for more non-DeLorean critiques of Monster Garage.   - Mike Substelny, DML moderator of the week]





Ratings, and the rednecks love him.



-Joe



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "logiclymydearwatson" 
<logiclymydearwatson_at_dml_y...> wrote:

>> I watched with absolute horror as TWO Deloreans were butchered by 

that tattooed meth-

>> scooter freak Jesse Bullock. Who in their right mind would let that 

foul mouthed ex-con 

>> destroy two perfectly good cars?  
>> 
>> What were they thinking?






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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 20:11:14 -0000
From: "stainless_dreams" <fwise3_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Re: MONSTER GARAGE SUCKS!!!!!

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "logiclymydearwatson"
<logiclymydearwatson_at_dml_y...> wrote:

>> I watched with absolute horror as TWO Deloreans were butchered by

that tattooed meth-

>> scooter freak Jesse Bullock. Who in their right mind would let that

foul mouthed ex-con 

>> destroy two perfectly good cars?  
>> 
>> What were they thinking?


If I remember correctly, they were not original deloreans.







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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 17:27:54 -0400
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Dunking booth

Well I thought Mark was going to bring in the most revenue at PR with the dunking booth but from what's going on on the DML now I thing VB is now the front runner by at least a 2:1 margin.
 
This could be very profitable 
Who knows between the top four contenders on the dunking booth maybe we can pay for a whole show and offer it for free.
 LOL
 
What if we fill it with Jello
 
So what should I charge 
3 shots (balls)for $5 ?????
$1.00 per shot (ball)
or unlimited for $1000  :-)  or until your arm drops off
 
Ken
Keeping it light I hope.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 14:40:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Cox <DMCox_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Strange VB car show behavior


>>>> > > However, none of the other car clubs respect it.
>>>> > > The British clubs hate it, the Italian clubs will not allow it in
>>
>>> > the shows
>>
>>>> > > either.
>>>> > > snip <


We get along well with the British car clubs out here in San Diego too.  For example, see http://www.sandiegobritishcarday.org/RBCD2003.html

Look for us about 1/3 of the way down the page.

As long as I'm writing, let me make an early mention of the 26th Annual British Car Day on Sunday, October 2, 2005.  I urge everyone in the southern California area (AZ-D can come too, you guys are fun!) to come to this event.  We've attended the last 3 years and enjoyed it very much. Each year, the organisers tell me that if we can get just 5 Deloreans pre-registered, we can have our own category and trophies that say "Delorean" instead of "Other".  More information and a registration form can be found at:  http://www.sandiegobritishcarday.org/flyer05.html

Dave
vin 16367

_____________________________________________________________
Buy and sell stocks in NFL teams! Get paid dividends every time your team wins! Free limited-time trial at http://www.AllSportsMarket.com?affiliate=1860





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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 21:46:22 -0000
From: "gullwingmag" <gullwing-magazine_at_dml_sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Musty odor

Byron,  

You can get a very nice carpet from Hydro-e-lectric in Florida.  Fits 
perfect and looks very nice.  Their number is 1-800-343-4261

Ron
www.gullwingmagazine.com


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "byrondelorean" <celiambyron_at_dml_m...> 
wrote:
I think DMCH told me a while ago that the driver and 

>> passenger floor carpet is out of stock. I must deal with what I have. 
>> 
>> Byron










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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 12:21:08 -0700
From: Ryan Wright <ryanpwright_at_dml_gmail.com>
Subject: Re: remove shif knob (WOOHOO!)

On 7/26/05, Mike Walsh <mike_at_dml_mikewalsh.net> wrote:

>> Ryan - you were right on. I knew that nut was there but for some reason I
>> was not thinking it was tightened against the knob's nut (careful, I am
>> talking about the car now!). With a 13mm wrench on that nut, and a pipe
>> wrench on the knob (thanks Rob) I was able to get it off.
>> 
>> On the threads and inside the knob there were the remnants of some kind of
>> contact cement. It looks like the prev owner had tried to make sure it would
>> not come off.


Probably just didn't know how to tighten it properly. Getting it nice
and tight and in the exact orientation you want can be a bit of a
chore. After all the trial and error adjusting the nuts on the shaft
and still ending up with a crooked knob, I can see someone getting
frustrated and just lubing it all up with contact cement.

-Ryan





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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 16:55:42 -0400
From: "L. Sandel" <ls_at_dml_chickencow.csv.cmich.edu>
Subject: Door roof seal dimensions

Hey all,

Can anybody tell me the dimensions of the door roof seals?  They're 
completely gone from my car (only the riveted holders remain).  From 
pictures, they appear to just be 2 long rubber rectangles.  I'm about to 
tear off the roof & headliners & figured I'd roll my own seals & convert 
from rivets to screws while I'm "in the neighborhood".  If someone can send 
me some measurements I promise to write up a 'how to' when I'm done  ;) 

Thanks,
Luke & 10270 





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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 20:58:02 +0200
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>
Subject: AW: Re: Question and strange car show behavior

Jake,
not when you installed a resistor, diode and some inches of wire from
the lock module to the light delay module - as long as the interior
lights are on (doors open) my doors won't lock with the power lock.

If interested let me know, it's very simple to install.

Elvis & 6548



Just a reminder that locking one door while the other is open should only be
done if your lock module is disconnected!  (Unless you like a mess of jammed
lock rods...)

Jake in 1063







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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 17:54:18 -0400
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>
Subject: Re: Re: Strange VB car show behavior

Rich is right.  The DML is open to the public, and will always be 
archived somewhere.  Every word you post here will be available for 
DeLorean fans and historians to read in the centuries to come.  Anyone 
who posts a DML message should expect to be judged for their advice, 
language, and opinions by future generations.

- Mike Substelny
Moderating this week



d_rex_2002 wrote:


>>VB,
>>
>>Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Internet is PUBLIC.
>>Anyone can read DML postings (without being a forum member)
>>via the Yahoo groups web interface or using the archive list
>>webpage at the Project Vixen website, so I would call it public.
>>  
>>
>>  
>>






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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 18:00:11 -0400
From: <rob_at_dml_pjgrady.com>
Subject: RE: High idle

Derek,

That proves your idle regulator is not frozen and therefore is probably OK.
Since you don't know how to use an ohmmeter to test the wiring and thermal
sensor you could just send me your ICU and I'd test it for you as I
suggested to you privately. As I mentioned before the ICU is probably N/G.

Rob Grady

-----Original Message-----
From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Derek
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 9:25 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DML] High idle

I unplugged the idle motor as videobob mentioned, and the car dropped from
1800-2000 
rpms to 1200-1400. The idle motor does not make a whirring sound when the
key is in 
the 'on' position with the engine off. Does this prove that the idle motor
is the cause of my 
problems, or could it be something electrical not powering the motor
properly?

Thanks,
-Derek




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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 16:04:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeremiah Montee <angelito03299_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Brake question

Similar to your issue, I would step on my brakes, and
as my car sat - the brake pedals would go down almost
2-3 inches without warning.  Casey informed me it was
the master cylinder starting to go.  Fixed that
problem...

When you replace the MC, spray the bolts holding the
fluid reservoir down with aLOT of penetrating spray -
let them sit for at least an hour.  We had to use a
drill to get the bolts out, and we almost broke open
the brake reservoir - that was 2 days before Pigeon
Forge......was very scary..

Jeremiah

--- byrondelorean <celiambyron_at_dml_msn.com> wrote:


>> Dear forum members, when I step on the brake pedal,
>> it feels as thou 
>> the pedal has too much play before making contact
>> with the brakes. 
>> Maybe 4"-5". 


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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 18:56:24 -0400
From: <rob_at_dml_pjgrady.com>
Subject: RE: Door roof seal dimensions

Luke,

The roof seals are molded parts that are curved and tapered towards the
sealing edge. If flat rubber stock would have worked just as well I
certainly would not have invested over $8000- in tooling alone to make new
ones. Once you've removed the rivets the first time you'll swear you'll
never want to do it again as it's not a fun job. At less than $35- each for
a properly designed part isn't your time better spent fixing your car
correctly rather than manufacturing your own parts that may not give you the
intended results? BTW stick with rivets as screws are more likely to dent
the roof with only 1/8" clearance between the two panels. 
 
Rob Grady

P.J.Grady Inc.
-----Original Message-----
From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com] On Behalf of
L. Sandel
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 4:56 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Door roof seal dimensions

Hey all,

Can anybody tell me the dimensions of the door roof seals?  They're 
completely gone from my car (only the riveted holders remain).  From 
pictures, they appear to just be 2 long rubber rectangles.  I'm about to 
tear off the roof & headliners & figured I'd roll my own seals & convert 
from rivets to screws while I'm "in the neighborhood".  If someone can send 
me some measurements I promise to write up a 'how to' when I'm done  ;) 

Thanks,
Luke & 10270 




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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 18:02:20 EDT
From: Packodenton_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Musty odor BG products AC cleaner

If mold is in the carpet, take them out and have a quality dry cleaning  
company clean them for you. Should cost you less than $200.00
 
In addition, BG products Inc., makes a great cleaner for the AC  systems. It 
is in a can then becomes a foam. The technician sprays it inside of  the AC 
system and out comes mold, dirt, etc. Makes the AC smell like new.
I took my car to Pat Goss Garage (the Motorweek TV guy) in Seabrook  
Maryland. Great stuff.
 
Sincerely,
Mike Pack
 
NOTE:   THIS DOCUMENT MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND NONPUBLIC INFORMATION.  IT 
IS  INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL(S) OR ENTITY(IES) NAMED 
ABOVE, AND  OTHERS SPECIFICALLY AUTHORIZED TO RECEIVE IT.  If you are not the 
intended  recipient of this document, you are notified that any review, 
dissemination,  distribution or copying of this communication is prohibited.  If you have 
 received this communication in error, please notify me immediately by return 
 email, delete the electronic message and destroy any printed copies.  Thank  
you for your cooperation.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 15
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 19:07:14 -0400
From: "Michael & Denise" <luckeys71_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: Keeping Things In Perspective

I just received the premiere issue of Hemmings Sports & Exotic Car magazine with the cover story being "20 Great Sports Cars for Under $15K".  I thought it was interesting to look at some of their picks in regards to horsepower when compared to the DeLorean:
1)1968-83 Fiat Spider 124      102hp
2)1967-1974 Lotus Europa       05hp
4)1969-1976 Triumph TR6      106hp
6)1963-1980 MGB                      92hp
9)1976-1979 Lotus Esprit        160hp
10)1968-1973 Opel GT            102hp
12)1970-1976 Porsche 914      80hp
15)1970-1974 Saab Sonett III    65hp
19)1972-1976 TVR 2500M      106hp
When looking around at other classic sports cars in a similar price range the 130hp DeLorean PRV doesn't look so bad-don't you think?
Mike
#3760


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 16:13:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeremiah Montee <angelito03299_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Dunking booth

[Moderator Note: A little fantasy is fine, but that's enough.  The dunking booth discussion is closed.  - moderator Mike Substelny]

$10 for as many throws as it takes to dunk them
-whether it be one throw or 1000.

--- kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com wrote:


>> Well I thought Mark was going to bring in the most
>> revenue at PR with the dunking booth but from what's
>> going on on the DML now I thing VB is now the front
>> runner by at least a 2:1 margin.
>>  
>> This could be very profitable 
>> Who knows between the top four contenders on the
>> dunking booth maybe we can pay for a whole show and
>> offer it for free.
>>  LOL
>>  
>> What if we fill it with Jello
>>  
>> So what should I charge 
>> 3 shots (balls)for $5 ?????
>> $1.00 per shot (ball)
>> or unlimited for $1000  :-)  or until your arm drops
>> off
>>  
>> Ken
>> Keeping it light I hope.






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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 16:31:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Richard Rosales <calif93030_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Any Delorean activties planned in So Cal this summer??

Hello all,
 
I'm Richard Rosales, the guy that picked up his new Delorean at the DMC Open House in Houston this last June.   Does anyone know if there are any activities planned his summer in So Cal??  I've only been a Delorean owner for 2 months so I'm a little new to things.
 
Thanks,
 
Richard
VIN 2800


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Message: 18
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 01:26:25 +0200
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>
Subject: AW: High idle

Derek,
I am no sure if this proves it. If the idle motor doesn't vibrate and
make that noise, then the idle ECU might be defect.
But what difference would it make then  if you unplug the idle motor ?

The motor can't change the position/angle by itself, there is no spring or
so
installed that would close the valve or at least turn it back to a certain
position.

If the power stage of the ECU would be faulty and set the motor/valve
to fully open, then it would stay there no matter what you do with the
connector.

Of course when you touch the motor you also move it a bit. When the hoses
are
leaking this might change something.

Did you test the rest I asked you to ?

In another email from today I posted some links to pictures how to test
the idle motor.
+12V on the center contact/spade
Then connect one of the side contacts with ground. just for a second or so.
Then connect the other side with ground.
each time you change you should hear the motor turning to the other
direction.
All you hear is a "clack" then the valve is fully open or closed.

If it doesn't do that - the motor is faulty, maybe the bearing is rusted.

The coils can be measured, too. 14 Ohm between the center and each outer
contact.
To test the ECU it needs more electronical tools that most people won't have
at home.

Please check these points and give us a feedback. The whole thing
isn't complicated but most do have problems with it. I'm trying
to find out what problems people have with it to make a HowTo.

Elvis & 6548






>> I unplugged the idle motor as videobob mentioned,
>> and the car dropped from 1800-2000 rpms to 1200-1400.
>> The idle motor does not make a whirring sound when the
>> key is in the 'on' position with the engine off. Does
>> this prove that the idle motor is the cause of my
>> problems, or could it be something electrical not
>> powering the motor properly?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> -Derek


[long quote trimmed by moderator]




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Message: 19
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 19:49:51 -0400
From: Todd Nelson <tan5732_at_dml_rit.edu>
Subject: Odd Starting Issue

List:

I seem to be having an odd starting issue.  I have noticed that whenever the car is parked outside on a semi-hot day (75-85 *F) while I'm at work it will take significant cranking for the engine to catch (7-8 cranks) when I go to drive home.  But it does catch and runs just fine after that.  However, after the car has spent the night in the garage it will start up just fine in the morning on the first or second crank.  I have also noticed that hot starting is fine, just periodic cold-start issues during warmer weather.  The hotter the day, the harder the start.  I have replaced the fuel accumulator, the fuel pump with a new check valve and have verified that the cold-start valve is functioning as well as the thermal time switch.  Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Todd Nelson
1561, Vermont


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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Message: 20
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 00:43:22 -0000
From: "Bernie" <bmanderville_at_dml_comcast.net>
Subject: Modified DeLoreans

To the list,

I am reading all of everyones comments about modifying a D.  Everyone 
has an opinion about doing it or not, it's a personal decision, not 
someone else's decision.  As a new owner of an almost perfect DeLorean, 
I would, after fixing nothing, and putting back on the old parts, put 
it in a Concours meet.  I know it won't win but it will be original.  
Therein lies the problem, original vs. something you can drive when you 
want to, everyday or otherwise.  We all know that the car needs fixes 
to make it run right.

As for modifying the car to make what the owner want's to make of it, 
so what, it's the owners car.  He/She can make any modifications they 
want to it.  My biggest thing is DON'T CHANGE THE OUTLINE OF THE CAR! 
If it still looks like the orginal car, the owner has done a great 
job.  Lot's of cars get modified to enhance performance, yet the owners 
usually don't modify the body to where it's unrecognizable any more.

Bernie







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Message: 21
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 01:33:55 -0000
From: "bigkidtoys1955" <bigkidtoys_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: FRAME

Does anyone have experience with Pierce Design stainless frame and 
stainless parts???






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Message: 22
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 01:52:03 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Musty odor

I redyed my carpets with stuff I bought from Leatherique. I am not
entirely satisfied with the result. I had much better results with the
leather seating surfaces. The dye is off-color and it leaves the
carpet feeling stiff and lifeless. My recomendation is to use a carpet
cleaner/steamer with some detergent and mildew remover. You should
remove the carpeting from the car, ALL of it including the parts
stapled to the rear. It all holds odors. My car had a smoker in it.
Now you can't tell.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



-- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "brandelorean" <brandelorean_at_dml_y...> wrote:

>> Hey Byron,
>> 
>> I'd check with DMCH again on those carpets as I recently talked with 
>> James and he said that they have new carpet to replace any carpeting 
>> in the D.  I was recently asking him about re-dying the carpets and 
>>








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Message: 23
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 18:39:40 -0700
From: "darryl" <dtinnerstet_at_dml_centurytel.net>
Subject: RE: 1/18 Sunstar model

<<If you go to see the Gold Delorean in the Museum in some state i cant 
remember the plaque in front of the car call's the Gold Delorean a LK 
Sport Coupe.>>

If you are talking about the car in Reno, the sign also says it has electronic fuel injection.  And the tour guide says the crappy door seals caused the door hinges to rust and freeze up, which led to the downfall of the car.  And that there were only two gold cars, not three.  No kidding.  And he wasn't about to listen to anyone trying to straighten him out.

Darryl T. (still lurking)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 24
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 21:55:48 -0400
From: "Josh Krady" <josh_at_dml_joshandjessica.com>
Subject: Keys



-------------------------------------

Josh Krady

www.gamestartonline.com

--------------------------------------
I'm fairly new to this list, and I was just wondering where or how I can get
duplicate keys made. I have two blanks, but I don't know where to get them
copied. I don't have a keycode as far as I can tell, I tried looking under
the door or whatever. Is their an online place that I can send them and get
them done or something?

Thanks,
Josh






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Message: 25
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 23:52:11 -0000
From: "f14dflyer" <f14dflyer_at_dml_comcast.net>
Subject: Re: MONSTER GARAGE SUCKS!!!!!


>> What were they thinking?


By "they" I hope you mean the producers of the show, rather than the build team for that 
particular episode. I remind you that at least 3 of the build team members are DMC 
owners, and one is a major DMC service vendor, and they all see these remarks, so in my 
opinion, we should try to keep this a little more civilized. Moreover, this happened a year 
and a half ago and is most definately OLD NEWS, almost not worth commenting on 
anymore.

Just my two cents.

-Dave J
VIN: Not yet







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