Subject:[DML] Digest Number 2768
From:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Date:28 Jul 2005 18:15:48 -0000
To:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com

There are 11 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: MONSTER GARAGE SUCKS!!!!!
From: Ryan Wright <ryanpwright_at_dml_gmail.com>

2. won't start low primary pressure
From: "scberridge" <scberridge2_at_dml_yahoo.com>

3. RE: Re: Idle Speed Motor / Cooling
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>

4. Re: Keys
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

5. Re: Odd Starting Issue
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

6. Re: Musty odor
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

7. Possible DeLorean Mention on TCM
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>

8. Re: MONSTER GARAGE SUCKS!!!!!
From: "twinenginedmc12" <twinenginedmc12_at_dml_gendreaumicro.com>

9. Re: won't start low primary pressure
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>

10. Re: Modified DeLoreans
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

11. Re: Help w/horn - wiring inside steering column?
From: Ryan Wright <ryanpwright_at_dml_gmail.com>





Message: 1
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 23:14:43 -0700
From: Ryan Wright <ryanpwright_at_dml_gmail.com>
Subject: Re: MONSTER GARAGE SUCKS!!!!!


>> I still cringe watching the hovercraft get run over but hey, it's just the
>> way that JJ does business, if it don't work destroy it.  Still, I wish they
>> hadn't lost the guy that Jesse kicked off otherwise, with an extra hand, the
>> bags underneath might have been more thoroughly checked.


Wouldn't have mattered. That thing wasn't going to fly. Way too much
weight for the horsepower.

-Ryan




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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 13:23:34 -0000
From: "scberridge" <scberridge2_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: won't start low primary pressure

My car has always started very easily.  For the past year tho
it has started to starve (or load up?) after running about 5 minutes.
Once it got thru that period - usually by letting it sit for a few
minutes - it ran fine.

Then one day about 20 minutes into a drive, it died turning a corner
and would not start.  Towed her home and have been checking things
over.

Finally got a fuel pressure gauge last night and find the following.
connecting the gauges as per fig. 18 D:02:02 (between the fuel
distributor and the control pressure regulator) if find:
crank the engine and the fuel pressure comes up to 2.9bar (~42psi)
the specs say the primary pressure should be 4.9-5.5bar, so
mine it quite low.
I also note that removing the RPM relay and jumpering terminal 87
to 30 did NOT run the pump (key on), altho I do hear the pump run
either before or just after cranking - key on.  And the pump is
clearly working at some level.
Specs also say injectors open at 3.5 to 4.1bar - so clearly that's
a problem.

I have done the hot start trick, of putting the gray connector onto
the cold start valve - no joy.  Not even a bit of fire.
I've checked the spark, by pulling the plugs one by one and it seems
ok - surely enough to fire - even if it's not perfect. Eyeballing this
is a poor test.
I can smell gas fumes in the tail pipes so something is getting there,
but maybe not enuf.

The system held pressure overnight, only dropping to 2.55bar.

Anyone know what causes low primary pressure, while being able to 
hold pressure overnight?  Also, I've seen no evidence of leaks.
Thanks very much,
Steve







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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 16:08:01 +0200 (MEST)
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>
Subject: RE: Re: Idle Speed Motor / Cooling

What ?
I was as realistic as possible - I used the car's battery !!!!

12V not 12 amps !

amps is the current that will flow when a resistor is connected
between the two poles of a voltage source. 
Ohm's law: R = U / I -> I = U / R

U is fix (12.5V only battery and about 13.8V with engine running)
Resistor of the motor is also fix = 14 Ohm.

So the max current can be only 1A.

Sorry but this is basic knowledge that is described in any
basic electronics book on the first 2 or 3 pages.

Elvis


>> 
>> Try it (with out) a regulated power supply or 1 amp. Most people trying it
>> use a battery with unlimited current. I have a 12 amp power supply
>> regulated.
>> John Hervey
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
>> Of Elvis Nocita
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 12:06 AM
>> To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: AW: [DML] Re: Idle Speed Motor / Cooling
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Well, mine survived 2 minutes of testing it continuously without any
>> trouble. Yours don't ?
>> 
>> here the pictures:
>> 
>> first coil:
>> http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/6575/cimg92547oh.jpg
>> 
>> second coil:
>> http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/5259/cimg92568sr.jpg
>> 
>> close view:
>> http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/2229/cimg92580in.jpg
>> 
>> 1A _at_dml_ 12V = 12W -> not enough to burn the coils !
>> At least not within a few seconds and under regular conditions.
>> In my case the engine also was still hot from driving.
>> 
>> Resistance of the single coils is around 14 Ohm.
>> 
>> Elvis & 6548






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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 14:14:23 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Keys

Any good locksmith should be able to cut your blanks. If you prefer to
send them out all of the Delorean vendors can cut blanks for you or
Jesser's Keys is very good with old cars. You should put the origional
away and not use it so it doesn't get worn anymore. Use it only to
make new keys. Use the new blanks you will get cut for daily use.
Lubricate all the locks too. You can also have a locksmith "read" the
key for the code for future reference.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Josh Krady" <josh_at_dml_j...> wrote:

>> 
>> 
>> -------------------------------------
>> 
>> Josh Krady
>> 
>> www.gamestartonline.com
>> 
>> --------------------------------------
>> I'm fairly new to this list, and I was just wondering where or how I

can get

>> duplicate keys made. I have two blanks, but I don't know where to

get them

>> copied. I don't have a keycode as far as I can tell, I tried looking

under

>> the door or whatever. Is their an online place that I can send them

and get

>> them done or something?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Josh








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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 14:10:08 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Odd Starting Issue

I would verify proper operation of 2 systems that are active during
cold start. One is the cold start valve and is only active when cold
and cranking and the other is the ignition bypass relay by the ballast
resistor which is always active during cranking. If both are working
my next suspect would be the CPR. When starting cold follow the
owner's manual, hold the accelerator pedal down 1/4 way. That may
help. You may also need a tune-up replacing worn spark plugs and
ignition wires.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Todd Nelson <tan5732_at_dml_r...> wrote:

>> List:
>> 
>> I seem to be having an odd starting issue.  I have noticed that

whenever the car is parked outside on a semi-hot day (75-85 *F) while
I'm at work it will take significant cranking for the engine to catch
(7-8 cranks) when I go to drive home.  But it does catch and runs just
fine after that.  However, after the car has spent the night in the
garage it will start up just fine in the morning on the first or
second crank.  I have also noticed that hot starting is fine, just
periodic cold-start issues during warmer weather.  The hotter the day,
the harder the start.  I have replaced the fuel accumulator, the fuel
pump with a new check valve and have verified that the cold-start
valve is functioning as well as the thermal time switch.  Any thoughts?

>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Todd Nelson
>> 1561, Vermont
>> 
>> 
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 14:16:52 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: Musty odor

There is an industrial process that salvage relaimers use. It involves
an Ozone generator. The Ozone is an oxidizer that will break down the
mold. You can buy or rent these generators. Leave everything smelling
"fresh as a daisy".
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "byrondelorean" <celiambyron_at_dml_m...> wrote:

>> Thanks Ron.
>> 
>> 
>> I removed the seats and the carpeting. I treated the carpet with a 
>> mold killing product called "Odor Ban", I bought it at Sams Club. 
>> After letting it soak in on both the foam and the carpet (direction 
>> said safe for carpet) I hosed everything down. That was yesterday, 
>> today they are dry & smell fresh and look new. My seats are  black 
>> original and also look new. The problem is within the foam. If you 
>> put your nose to the back of the seat you can smell the musty odor 
>> the strongest. I have the seats upside down in my finished basement 
>> near a de-humidifier. Time will tell. I really would prefer not to 
>> have to remove the covers and bleach the foam or something. Any 
>> tricks?
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> Byron
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "gullwingmag" <gullwing-
>> magazine_at_dml_s...> wrote:
>
>>> > Byron,  
>>> > 
>>> > You can get a very nice carpet from Hydro-e-lectric in Florida.  
>
>> Fits 
>
>>> > perfect and looks very nice.  Their number is 1-800-343-4261
>>> > 
>>> > Ron
>>> > www.gullwingmagazine.com
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "byrondelorean" <celiambyron_at_dml_m...> 
>>> > wrote:
>>> > I think DMCH told me a while ago that the driver and 
>>
>>>> > > passenger floor carpet is out of stock. I must deal with what I 
>
>> have. 
>
>>>> > > 
>>>> > > Byron







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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 10:17:29 -0400
From: Mike Substelny <msubstel_at_dml_lorainccc.edu>
Subject: Possible DeLorean Mention on TCM

As a moderator I am loathe to approve new threads about the movie Back 
to the Future; posting one myself seems unlikely indeed.  Nevertheless, 
I want to point out the special significance of cable channel Turner 
Classic Movies showing Back the the Future this coming Friday night.  It 
is the climax of their "Cars in the Movies" month, which has included 
such car-packed classics as Bullitt, The French Connection, and American 
Graffiti.   BTTF could only have been selected because of its DeLorean 
star . . . though I'm sure co-star and DeLorean Car Show participant 
Claudia Wells has something to do with it, too.

http://www.turnerclassicmovies.com/ThisMonth/Article/0,,97170|97171||,00.html

TCM's description of BTTF gets a few plot points wrong, but these are 
not worthy of discussion on the DML.

TCM introduces each "Cars in the Movies" selections with comments, 
usually about how the car in question makes the movie so special.  Some 
DMLers will doubtless want to tune in to see if the host has anything to 
say about the DeLorean.

- Mike Substelny





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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 14:26:49 -0000
From: "twinenginedmc12" <twinenginedmc12_at_dml_gendreaumicro.com>
Subject: Re: MONSTER GARAGE SUCKS!!!!!

Hi Ryan.

The Delorean Hovercraft project could easily have succeeded, with 
either the "put the delorean panels on the hovercraft" or the "make 
the entire car float, frame and all" approach.  If you do the math to 
calculate how much pressure is needed for each method, you'll 
probably be a believer, but if you aren't at that point, nothing I 
say will convince you. You don't have to be a hovercraft expert to 
work it out.  They are relatively simple machines.
The pressure needed to lift either configuration is well within the 
capacity of the engine used to generate, and well within the capacity 
of the skirt to endure.  

But who cares?  It didn't succeed, and that's that.  There's no point 
Monday-morning-quarterbacking it.  Personally, I think it came out 
more interesting and memorable the way it went down, though I can't 
possibly be objective.  

Your comment that you could have told me it wouldn't have succeeded 
in the first 30 seconds is unnecessarily insulting to a number of 
people, as well as technically unfounded.  I'm sorry, but you are 
just plain wrong, in exactly the same way that the people who 
said "mankind can't fly", "mankind can't build a ship to go to the 
moon", "mankind can't swim underwater", people can't possibly live 
longer than 30 years", "it's impossible to break the sound 
barrier", "you can't travel around the world without falling off" and 
so on...

No hard feelings.

Rick.


 

>> Rick,
>> 
>> I could have told you it wouldn't have succeeded in the first 30
>> seconds. Why didn't they get a hovercraft expert on the show?
>> 
>> I am by no means an expert myself, but I know enough about 

hovercraft

>> design & operation principles. The show took a hovercraft with a few
>> hundred pound payload and tried to make it left a couple thousand
>> pounds of weight. Jesse should have know there was no way in hell 

this

>> was going to work. That little snowmobile engine never had a chance.
>> The PRV might -- MIGHT -- have provided enough lift, given the 

proper

>> engineering, to actually carry the car over various terrain. A
>> secondary thrust engine mounted above the PRV and this could have 

been

>> a mild success.
>> 
>> Rich had the right idea with his conversion, as did all of you 

(except

>> Jesse) on the show: Stick the DeLorean's panels on the hovercraft.
>> Unfortunately, we all know what happened with that idea - the only
>> feasible one given what you had to work with.
>> 
>> There are people - real experts - who could have made the whole car
>> fly. Whether it could be done under the circumstances the show
>> dictates, who knows. Given the proper preparation beforehand, I
>> believe it could have been.
>> 
>> -Ryan







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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 14:29:09 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_webspan.net>
Subject: Re: won't start low primary pressure

Low primary pressure is caused by one or more of the following:
a problem with the pick-up hose (kinked or perforated)
a plugged up/dirty pick-up filter and too much water or dirt in the tank
A plugged up fuel filter
bad fuel pump
stuck primary pressure regulator
no fuel in the tank
bad accumulator
I would start in the fuel tank. Pull the pump and see if there is any
dirt in there and the condition of the pick-up hose and filter. Since
the system does hold some pressure the accumulator and pressure
regulator are probably alright.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757 



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "scberridge" <scberridge2_at_dml_y...> wrote:

>> My car has always started very easily.  For the past year tho
>> it has started to starve (or load up?) after running about 5 minutes.
>> Once it got thru that period - usually by letting it sit for a few
>> minutes - it ran fine.
>> 
>> Then one day about 20 minutes into a drive, it died turning a corner
>> and would not start.  Towed her home and have been checking things
>> over.
>> 
>> Finally got a fuel pressure gauge last night and find the following.
>> connecting the gauges as per fig. 18 D:02:02 (between the fuel
>> distributor and the control pressure regulator) if find:
>> crank the engine and the fuel pressure comes up to 2.9bar (~42psi)
>> the specs say the primary pressure should be 4.9-5.5bar, so
>> mine it quite low.
>> I also note that removing the RPM relay and jumpering terminal 87
>> to 30 did NOT run the pump (key on), altho I do hear the pump run
>> either before or just after cranking - key on.  And the pump is
>> clearly working at some level.
>> Specs also say injectors open at 3.5 to 4.1bar - so clearly that's
>> a problem.
>> 
>> I have done the hot start trick, of putting the gray connector onto
>> the cold start valve - no joy.  Not even a bit of fire.
>> I've checked the spark, by pulling the plugs one by one and it seems
>> ok - surely enough to fire - even if it's not perfect. Eyeballing this
>> is a poor test.
>> I can smell gas fumes in the tail pipes so something is getting there,
>> but maybe not enuf.
>> 
>> The system held pressure overnight, only dropping to 2.55bar.
>> 
>> Anyone know what causes low primary pressure, while being able to 
>> hold pressure overnight?  Also, I've seen no evidence of leaks.
>> Thanks very much,
>> Steve







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Message: 10
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 11:36:30 EDT
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Modified DeLoreans

 
In a message dated 7/28/2005 9:27:27 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
videobob_at_dml_hotmail.com writes:

>From  what I have seen, people how have concourse cars don't drive them.
They  keep them as projects and show cars.



Concours car 16684 
 
Driven to all local shows
Driven on the Fall foliage tour twice
Driven to Cleveland 
Driven to Pigeon Forge
Driven to local resturaunts
Driven to Tennis Tournament
Driven to Nashville
Driven to or at Evansville each year
Driven to many proms
Driven to Memphis 
Driven to Calvalcade
Driven to Canton for Glenmour Gathering 
Drivnen to Ault Park Concours
Driven in St Patricks Day Parade
Driven this year in Houston by the Press people after show.
 
Just to mention a few.
 
Ken


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 11
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 08:49:43 -0700
From: Ryan Wright <ryanpwright_at_dml_gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Help w/horn - wiring inside steering column?

Derek,

Time for me to jump in.

The same exact thing happened to my horn. One of the wires broke off
up in the steering column. I can not for the life of me figure out how
to get the column apart enough to solder it back on. It came from deep
within there.

I forget which color it was, unfortunately, but I'm guessing you have
the same problem. If anyone knows how to get to the point in the
steering column where those wires are soldered - that information
should allow us both to fix our horns.

-Ryan

On 7/27/05, Derek <derek.grozio_at_dml_verizon.net> wrote:

>> So after fixing a bunch of electrical issues with the car, I am one step away from passing
>> inspection. My horn does not work, and I have tested both horns for power through the wire
>> when the button is pressed, and had no luck. So, after taking a tip from a fellow owner to
>> check out the wiring in my wheel to fix the broken horn, I traced the horn wires through the
>> car. The purple/black wire leaves the steering column, goes through the firewall, hits the first
>> horn on the drivers side, and proceeds to the passenger side horn where it terminates. This
>> wire is (-). I disassembled the horn button and found the two prongs. I tested both, and
>> neither had power. I jumped a constant power wire onto the top of the prongs to find that it
>> is what connects to the purple/black wire, and makes the horn go 'beep'. So, the horns work,
>> but for some reason I have no power to the lower of the two prongs of the horn button,
>> which would be needed to create the circuit under normal operation. Does anyone have any
>> idea what color wire leads into the steering column or connects to this button? The link to the
>> pic below is the disassembled steering column and I jumped the top prong of the horn
>> button to the purple wire on the top of the bracket, closest to the camera. If anyone could
>> help me diagnose this, please let me know, as this is the one last thing I need to pass
>> inspection. Thanks.
>> 
>> http://www.grozio.com/dpics/Picture002.jpg
>> http://www.grozio.com/dpics/Picture003.jpg






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