Subject:[DML] Digest Number 2798
Date:14 Aug 2005 20:17:05 -0000

There are 15 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Recurring offer on eBay

2. JZD article, David E. Davis, Automobile magazine article was tasteles

3. Re: Co2 set
From: "Tom" <>

4. Engine bogdown.
From: Jeremiah Montee <>

5. Re: JZD article
From: "therealdmcvegas" <>

6. Re: Re: JZD article

7. RE: Re: JZD article
From: "Jeff Friday" <>

8. Re: HELP! (canadian car Bernie)
From: "Bernie" <>

9. Re: HELP! (Import from Canada)
From: "Bernie" <>

10. Carfax
From: "Bernie" <>

11. AW: idle speed regulator resolved
From: "Elvis Nocita" <>

12. Engine Bogdown Note
From: Jeremiah Montee <>

13. Re: Noise from fuel pump
From: "conundrum1984" <>

14. RE: AC Condensation
From: "John Hervey" <>

15. Re: Carfax
From: <>

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 00:31:06 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Subject: Recurring offer on eBay

I keep a record of all of the Ds sold on eBay, and this one has appeared at least once a month for the last four months. Has anyone on the list seen this in person? I would not pay $8K for something so questionable, but I think it has potential if the seller would lower his asking price. I just wonder why he can't even sell it after all this time.


Message: 2
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 01:24:24 EDT
Subject: JZD article, David E. Davis, Automobile magazine article was tasteles

According to my records, I spoke to David E. Davis in November 1997. I  
called and left a VM and he called my office back and left a VM. Eventually,  after 
some small car talk, I spoke with him about the "Dare to  Dream" interview 
that I was helping JZD with. His mood changed, in my  opinion.
 He pointed out that the DMC-12 has been rejected by car collectors  thus 
far, (ha) and what was interesting to him, was the fact that the DMC  is a good 
used car, and will never be a serious collectors item,  similar to some 
Porsches and Maserati's. He did have some interesting things to  say about the 
DeLorean car clubs that were around at the time. Not  interested in the video, end 
of conversation. I sent the video to him anyway,  and I never received a reply 
if he watched it.
When I spoke to JZD about the conversation, he informed me that It has  been 
reported that Dottie Cole, wife of the retired  GM President Ed Cole & Detroit 
Society figure, hated  DeLorean and they never get along. 
 He went on, and in a very tongue & cheek manner replied,  who were Dottie's 
girlfriends'  married to, and what did their  husbands do for a living? Work 
at an advertising agency, or car magazine?
What is interesting,  David E. Davis and Jean Lindamood-Jennings  (anther 
Automobile Magazine writer) wrote nice articles about DeLorean in  the 1960's 
1970's and 1981. 
When development testing began on the Legend car project (I wish the  spy 
photographs of the Legend cars undergoing development tests would turn  up) and 
the car was launched in 1981, the automotive enthusiast  magazines changed 
their points of view about, the DMC car, JZD, and the  company in late 1981.
Just as an aside, one of the only positive articles written about the car,  
when new,  was the December 1981 Road & Track issue...and the author is  
nameless/ananamous...check it out.
Sincerely Yours,
Mike Pack
intended  recipient of this document, you are notified that any review, 
dissemination,  distribution or copying of this communication is prohibited.  If you have 
 received this communication in error, please notify me immediately by return 
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you for your cooperation.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 3
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 09:16:38 +0200
From: "Tom" <>
Subject: Re: Co2 set


It's amazing how little you guys know about the frequency valve and the 
mixture adjustment.... Let me say this - YOUR CO IS WRONG! It will need to 
be readjusted. The frequency valve needs to run all the time. If it doesn't 
run it means that the CO is far out of spec that the ECU cannot control it 
anymore. The CO is set with measurement taken before the catalytic 
converter. You need to replace the O2 sensor because the adjustment will not 
work. You CANNOT absolutely set the mixture by ear!! Why you might ask? 
Because you will not be able to tell if the FV is running at 60-40 duty or 
20-80 and that is important. Read the shop manual for the step-by-step 
procedure on how to set the CO.
No wonder so many people have problems with their DeLoreans and that so many 
think the car is crap. You absolutely cannot do some things by feel alone. 
The CO adjustment is the perfect example here. Of course you might say that 
'I've done it this way many times and it worked'.... right, the car will 
run, at emissions testing it will seem clean (thanks to the cat) but in 
reality the engine will run out of it's parameters either overheating from 
running too lean or washing the rings from running to rich. But you will 
find out about that when its too late.

Have the CO readjusted and don't forget to replace the O2 sensor if it 
wasn't replaced already.

Good luck

Tom Niemczewski
tomciodmc_at_dml_poczta.onet pl ->
VIN 6149 (in Poland!)
Save the dream so you can live the dream...

----- Original Message ----- 

>> Hi again I had my c02 adjustment finally set professionally and the car 
>> runs
>> great.. I do have a question though.. the frequency valve does not run 
>> when
>> the car is warm though now... at least not at idle.. it does run when u 
>> give it
>> gas and let off and such.. but just idleing warm it doesnt.. the c02 was 
>> set by a
>> c0 machine so it is right now.. any suggestions on this..?? Is this bad??
>> 15275


Message: 4
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 00:30:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeremiah Montee <>
Subject: Engine bogdown.

Ok guys, here we go with my new problem.

Start the car - cranks and fires right away.  Idles
beautifully, lambda system unhooked and air/fuel screw
adjusted for "perfect" steady idle.  Lightly push the
accelerator, car runs ok.  Push the pedal to 1200
rpms+ (I would guess about 1/4 push down on the
pedal), and the engine stutters heavily, cylinders
popping on and off completely randomly, extreme engine
bogdown.  If the car maintains a steady speed and the
pedal is pressed firmly while keeping a slowly
incrasing speed, the engine is strong and runs great. 
If the pedal is pushed very hard and firm from a dead
stop, the car almost loses power completely; one can
feel the car almost give up it loses so much power.

This is with the engine cold, warm, or hot - anytime. 
My symptoms sound EXTREMELY similar if not identical
to Rich Acuti's article on "General Tuneup Issues" at .

I have placed the Bosch K-Jetronic Fuel Pressure
Gauges on the car, and all the values are dead on and
perfect.  The car holds rest pressure, steady fuel
pressure; every gauge measurement is perfect.  I have
replaced all 11 vacuum hoses with silicone vacuum
hoses.  The thermal vacuum switch is working properly;
I'm getting vacuum from the appropriate hoses.  I have
the "old blue" coil bought in April 05.  All the
connections underneath the coil cover are firm and
intact.  The lambda system - if I choose to hook it up
- functions correctly in all aspects.  With the lambda
system hooked or unhooked the car experiences this
"engine bogdown".  I cannot find one vacuum leak
anywhere in the engine compartment; I have THOROUGHLY
soaked the engine with fluids and not one idle
fluctuation.  There was one vacuum leak on the coal
canister; the closed rubber hose on the little valve
labeled "carb" was totally rotted, but we put a brand
new rubber hose on it with a clamp to secure it and
still the engine bogs.  

I am completely baffled by this.  What would cause the
engine to accelerate so wildly and bog the engine down
so hard?  Anyone, please, give me anything you can
think of.  This car is my driver, so I have to deal
with this every single day I drive it.  

My guess is it's ignition related.  On that note, my
ignition timing is in the 13-15 degree mark - just
FYI.  Could this just be a case of bad spark
plugs/spark plug wires/cap and rotor/dirty grounds? 
I'm ready to do all that stuff; I may need a little
help locating the grounds Rich mentioned in the tech
article, but dangnabbit to fix this problem I'll learn
real fast.

One of my first suspects is the spark plug wires.  How
do you go about testing them with a multimeter?  I am
a little familiar with how to use one; I just need to
know what settings to utilize on the multimeter and
how exactly to test the spark plug wire?

Sorry for the long post guys; I just want to get this


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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 08:39:29 -0000
From: "therealdmcvegas" <>
Subject: Re: JZD article

You've got to remember where this guy comes from: Detroit. Take a look
at "On a Clear Day..." JZD wrote that when he moved up to the 14th
floor, people didn't fall out of line. Be it your suit color, the
wallpaper or wood trim in your personal office, and even your way of
thinking. Now you take someone whose lived in the enviornment for so
long, and this is what you'll get. They'll share the same opinion
simply to appease their peers. Regardless of how they may feel. Their
lives are just that structured.

Now the unfortunete thing here is that these opinions spill over into
the public area. People like David E. Davis Jr. are "revered", simply
because they have the power to make their voices heard. Not because of
any actual knowlege their weight holds behind their spoken word. If
you sound more confident in your lies than an opponent is in their
truths, you will cause that other person to doubt themselves. Now
imagine that you feed someone some misinformation on a subject that
they know little to nothing about. They're gonna stick by that,
because they've heard nothing else. And will repeat that same scraps
of misinformation, so that they themselves can seem smart as well, on
whatever particular subject. And even if a person does have knowlege
about a subject, you tell them over and over again something, no
matter how false, and they'll accept it as a truth, simply out of peer
pressure, causing self-doubt. That's why so many people have rallied
against the DeLorean car, company, and the man all these years.
Everyone else says so, so why should anyone be outspoken at all? Peer
pressure has a beautiful way of punishing upopular speach in a
non-violent way, within a social construct.

It's not about the money lost in the investment of DMC. As we all here
found out a few years back, the DMC bankruptcy paid back investors
unheard of amounts. Damn-near 100% of their cash investments. So no,
it's not about the money. It's just a shared mentality of "Well,
everyone else out there is kicking JZD in the ribs, so I guess they
must be right in doing so. So gee, I guess I will too." That's all
this is.

Unpopular public opinion of our cars has stemed from negative media.
Not any kind of first hand experience. As a matter of fact, the
DeLorean car is still a bigger threat than ever to the automotive
market. People like Davis have written it off for years as a bad car.
So people out there who want to have image cars to impress others have
shyed away from it. However, as we've seen in the past few years here,
many people who are new to the car scene have chosen the DeLorean as
their vehicle of choice. A younger, more rebellious generation, who
easily snubb their collective noses at people like David E. Davis.
Long before I ever got a DeLorean, people tried to tell me that it
wasn't a good car. Told me it wouldn't be worth money. I read that it
wasn't a highly respected car to such higher-up people. And I, like
many others here, simply said that we didn't care. So we went ahead,
and got DeLoreans anyway. We drive them and rack up the miles like
there's no tomorrow. And we're pleased. BTTF may have attracted quite
a few people to the DeLorean automobile, but the DMC-12 itself is what
has kept so many loyal to it.

The reason that many people like David E. Davis Jr. don't like the
DeLorean isn't because they *know*, or even remotely *think* that
these are bad vehicles, or that their creators are. No. They dislike
cars like the DeLorean because they are a direct threat to the classic
car hobby. We shatter the image that you have to be older, and more
established to enjoy the car hobby. We're proving people like this guy
wrong. The DeLorean has had an unbelivable rebound back in value, and
collectability. Which proves wrong so many egotistical people, who
said our cars' value and desirability would decrease. We prove their
self-cherished opinions wrong. And it is because of that threat that
we generate such negative press from these people! It's not easy think
to have to be proven wrong, when you've built yourself up so much.

I've read up a little on Davis here. If this man is so revered, so
worshiped, and posseses such great knowlege about the in's and out's
of the automotive industry as his own magazines proclaim, then why am
I driving a 1981 DeLorean, instead of a "Davis" automobile? So much
for putting one's money where one's own mouth is, eh?

vin 6585 "X"

--- In, "Videobob Moseley" <videobob_at_dml_h...> wrote:

>> I agree, the article was pretty tasteless...but only because of the

tone and 

>> language.
>> I am willing to believe that most of what he said was true.
>> If any of you have seen the "Car Crash" video, or listened to anyone


>> ever
>> had to be on the other end of his business you would hear these

people bash 

>> him.
>> All of this goes along with the statements I made a few weeks ago

about the

>> way people feel about our cars, or, the way CAR people feel about

our cars.

>> They feel the same way about JZD.
>> A lot of people lost a lot of money because of his endeavors.
>> - VB


Message: 6
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 06:59:19 EDT
Subject: Re: Re: JZD article

People say that JZD was a failure, others say he was successful.  JZD  was a 
brilliant man who was not afraid of taking a risk.  Imagine being in  his 
position at GM, making big bucks, living the good life and saying "I want  more. I 
want to make my own automobile."  How many people have thought  about it or 
said it and how many have done it? Many people write about the car  being a 
lemon. Let me see, after 22 years we still have a tremendous amount of  his cars 
riding around, looking timeless.  How many 22 year old Chevy's do  you see 
today?   JZD was a risk taker.  He was a  salesman.  You have to be a 
salesman/entrepreneur/venture  capitalist to raise money to create an automobile 
manufacturing company  from scratch.  JZD's short lived company would have still be 
around today  if were not for the intense geo-political risk at the time in 
Ireland and  the double digit inflation rates and double digit interest rates that 
 occurred here in the USA.  From 1980 to 1985 short term money market  rates 
in the US were at over 20%!  People were taking out car loans at  18-25%. All 
of the car companies suffered.  So by fate or bad luck,  JZD took his chance 
during one of the worst times of hyper inflation that  we have seen in over a 
century.  And he was under capitalized to  boot. During that 5 year period of 
high inflation and high interest rates  if GM needed money they just went out 
and raised money by selling more  stocks and bonds to the public. JZD was just 
an embryo hatching from his  stainless steel egg during a bad economic period 
of time. It's just a blip in  the timeline of history. But it was his 
unfortunate blip.  If you don't  take a risk in life you'll never accomplish anything. 
 Now the  responsibility of his dream is ours.   Let's give the man  credit.  
He was successful. People hate successful people.  All of who  own a Delorean 
know that the car is phenomenal.  May he rest in peace.  And for all these 
cowards who make their money writing about dead people who  took a chance I say 
- you should be so lucky that someone gives a shit about you  to write 
ANYTHING when you die.  I think I need a ride in my DMZ.
Bob Cutrupi 16909

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 7
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 14:16:08 +0000
From: "Jeff Friday" <>
Subject: RE: Re: JZD article

I musta missed the post with the article.  Can someone link me to a copy of 
this or tell me where to find it?  I can only read posts in my emails 
because it'll never let me log on at the actual site.

Without reading the article but reading all of the posts about it here's my 

I feel that John DeLorean was a man well ahead of his time.  His innovations 
and ideas for the future were brilliant and I believe that had fate not 
dealt him the hand it did he would not have stepped out of the spotlight so 

He was infact a businessman and a brilliant engineer.  I suppose there are 
people out there (like the writter of the controversial article you all are 
talking about) who do not think very highly of John Zachary Delorean...

...but we do.

For the car and the dreams he gave us we are forever greatful.  For all our 
lives he has made a difference.  He took our dreams of SS and gave them 
wheels and made them something tangible.  For it was HIS dream to create the 
car but it quickly became our dream when he pulled it out of the realm of 
fantasy to become something we could all see.

I think that JZD knew he made a difference for all of us.  How many owners 
are left out there?  7,000?  How many enthusiasts?  Twice or three times 
that?  How many people come up to you at a gas station to admire the car, 
full of wonder and question?  Infinite

For that I think his dream will always live on for it's ours now and it's 
our responsibility to keep it going.  I believe John is resting...probably 
reclining back in the seat of Proto 1, eyes closed, and imagining what the 
future holds for us down here and what we're going to do with what he 
built...with what he started.  Or maybe he's thinking back...remembering the 
good times and just staying in those moments.

People who write negatively about anything or anyone can never take it back. 
  It isn't mere words anymore.  I look forward to reading the article only 
to see what you all have been discussing.  But don't let it bother you guys. 
  It's just one mans opinions and bad as they may be he is entitled to them. 
  Don't forget though, next year all of us are coming together in 
celebration of the the man, the company and the car.  I think our opinions 
are the only ones that truly matter and ours will always hold John Zachary 
DeLorean with the highest regard.

Jeff in NC

>>From: "byrondelorean" <>
>>Subject: [DML] Re: JZD article
>>Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 02:48:15 -0000
>>Well, I read the article, this guy should hang out with Monster garage
>>Jesse. I replied with the following statement:
>>I would hope that you write a nice apology letter to the children of
>>John DeLorean.  How dare you. Hmm let see, John stirred up interest
>>through national campaigns with Auto Dealers that fully respected
>>John. He knew them by name, took care of their needs well before the
>>launch of his own car. The man worked very hard. I would consider his
>>dedication to his job as Peter Jennings did with his. Is John the only
>>person in the world to sell investors on a projected future? The
>>business is either a success or failure. The DeLorean Automobile spoke
>>for itself, today is still the most beautiful production vehicle ever.
>>You win or lose. John was acquitted of all charges related to the
>>issues. John had become withdrawn from the world while you lived
>>happily. You only live once, he wanted to achieve personal goals, and
>>at the same time improve transportation. For your information the car
>>is not a dud, it is one of the most reliable automobiles to date.
>>Perhaps you should do some modern research Very
>>frightening article, you have revealed your true self.  Total lack of
>>respect for the man, he made it because he earned it. Let's see what
>>you look like? Are you as good looking as John was? My guess is
>>probably not. Johns chin was broken (sports) and was repaired
>>unfavorably. He refused to let doctors repair it.
>>Byron, MI.

[moderator snip]


Message: 8
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 14:25:34 -0000
From: "Bernie" <>
Subject: Re: HELP! (canadian car Bernie)

Yes I did buy the D the Dave and Rich got running again.  They did not 
restore the car only got it running again.  The reason I think the 
black one is better is because the engine just plain runs better, and 
it is in perfect condition.  It is almost Concorse quality,  unlike the 
other one.  Don't get me wrong I love both of the cars, now I just have 
to figure out how to drive 2 at the same time.


--- In, "alex morgan" <mauibarber_at_dml_h...> wrote:

>> Bernie wrote
>> " In my opionion, it's better than my other D. Hey maybe a
>> body and engine swap!"
>> Didn't you buy that really nice DeLorean that Dave and Rich rebuilt?  

How is 

>> this new black one better than your first?  The pictures of your 


>> DeLorean looked gorgeous and I thought dave and rich rebuilt a lot of 


>> car?  Im confused?
>> -Alex


Message: 9
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 14:29:12 -0000
From: "Bernie" <>
Subject: Re: HELP! (Import from Canada)


I have spoken to customs and will have the car inspected in 
Baltimore on Monday,  I have everything I need to prove the car is 
from the US and meets all federal standards.  The original window 
sticker even shows the port of entry as Long Beach Ca.

Thanks for tip on a Carfax report, I will get that too.


--- In, "Jason Sisto" <wizard_at_dml_t...> wrote:

>> Bernie:
>> Do not part out the car!!  There are plenty of people that will 

buy it in its current condition, including the customs problem 
(which you should be able to fix)  Anyway, do a carfax report and 
find out where the car was registered in the US.  If you can find 
where the car was registered and/or titled here in the US, you can 
prove that it was here PRIOR to going into Canada and depending on 
the customs agent, that should be enough proof that it's origin, 
PRIOR to you, was in the US.  You may need to contact the DMV where 
it was previously registered in the US and have them sent you a 
Registration Verification Letter.  Some states have them, others do 
not.  Most states that do not require titles for cars over 10 years 
have this verification letter.  I did that before with my wife's car 
who moved back and forth from canada and that worked.

>> Jay

[moderator snip]


Message: 10
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 14:37:12 -0000
From: "Bernie" <>
Subject: Carfax

Carfax doesn't have anything on the Black D, says the VIN is invalid, 
which I doubt very much.  Anyone have any idea on that?



Message: 11
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 16:33:33 +0200
From: "Elvis Nocita" <>
Subject: AW: idle speed regulator resolved

What happens when you turn A/C on ?
Does idle speed sink ? And what does your volt-meter show then ?
What idle speed do you get now ? Above or below 775rpm ?

If it is below - do you have to push the gas peddal now when you turn the
key ?

What if you start the car when cold ? Will it keep runnning by itself ?

In the good old days of carburators we didn't have idle speed motors, but
we had stuff like a choke that we had to pull or mechanical systems that
would rise
idle when cold.

Those guys wouldn't have installed an expensive system 25 years ago if it
was useless.
It may not be perfect, but it's not useless.


Just want to say thanks for the input.  I did pull the plug on the regulator
and the car idles perfect. I drove it yesterday and today.No more up and
down with the idle.  Doesn't want to stall and fires right up.  I have to
agree with video bob.  The regulator is just one of those parts that are
there just to complicate things.  Thanks again.          Ed


Message: 12
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 09:08:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeremiah Montee <>
Subject: Engine Bogdown Note

One more thing.

I can get the engine to run perfectly if I enrichen
the car via Air/Fuel screw.  When I do this though,
the car idle hunts in neutral.  There is no "middle
ground" ...get the car idling smoothly equals engine
bogdown, get the car idle hunting equals perfect
engine performance.


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Message: 13
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 14:39:39 -0000
From: "conundrum1984" <>
Subject: Re: Noise from fuel pump

Doesn't that sound like the issue with heat coming from the radiator 
heating up the tank and a heat shield between then would fix it?

Thomas "Matt" Williams
VIN: 2953

--- In, "nuclearwesselanimation" 
<mwessel97_at_dml_m...> wrote:

>> Hi everyone! I am having a real problem with my fuel pump. it is a 
>> DMCH new and "improved" unit that I installed about 6 months ago.  
>> After about an hour of driving, the pump starts to make an aweful 
>> groaning noise.  If I continue to drive, the groaning gets louder 
>> and fuel flow seems to drop.  This will continue to the point that 
>> the pump seems to stop turning and the engine quits like it is uot 
>> of gas.  I have removed the pump from the car roadside immediately 
>> after this happens and it is hot as hell.  I wrapped it in a cool 
>> towel for 10 minutes or so and then started the car.  It was 


>> but still loud.  I limped to a gas station and filled the tank with 
>> 6 or 7 gallons of fresh, cool gas and the problem dissapeared.  I 
>> have toweled out the tank to remove silt and I have tapped the 
>> screen and even tested the pump with an unscreened tube right into 
>> the gas, so I am pretty sure it is not clogging of the baffle 
>> screen.  Do I have a defective pump?  I rarely travel far enough 


>> it to be a problem but I want my touring car to be able to tour.
>> Thanks all
>> Matt
>> vin# 6716
>> Denver, Colorado


Message: 14
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 09:59:37 -0500
From: "John Hervey" <>
Subject: RE: AC Condensation

Chris, I think the same tape your talking about is what I use on the
evaporator core as to not absorb condensation. The suppliers call it Cork
tape. It's on the web site at the bottom of the AC Cooling page.,
John Hervey

-----Original Message-----
From: []On Behalf
Of Chris Hawes
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 2:39 AM
Subject: Re: [DML] AC Condensation

You need emalgamating tape which is like padded, gummy duct tape that never
looses it's tackiness.  Iteliminates the sweating.  When I was on that stage
of my aircon rebuild I ended up buying the tape from DMCH and it worked out
cheaper than buying it from the hard to find suppliers here in the UK.  It
is far easier to roll it around the evaporator pipes whilst it is out of the

It is good stuff and I have loads left.  If you would like some, email me
off list...


Chris H
vin 5255 in the UK

[moderator snip]


Message: 15
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 11:29:53 -0500
From: <>
Subject: Re: Carfax

I bought my DeLorean new in June 1982. The state of Minnesota registered it
as a 'Special', and never used the word DeLorean on the title. My car won't
show up in Carfax either because of that. When I applied for collector
license plates the registration clerk told me I need to re-register it as a
DeLorean. When I was told it was be at my cost I said forget it. It's still
a registered as a Special.

Bruce Benson

>> Carfax doesn't have anything on the Black D, says the VIN is invalid,
>> which I doubt very much.  Anyone have any idea on that?
>> Bernie
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