Subject:[DML] Digest Number 2832
From:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Date:1 Sep 2005 04:20:15 -0000
To:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. logo
From: "Chuck McKnight" <gullwingdoors_at_dml_yahoo.com>

2. Delorean mysteriously died
From: Erik Geerdink <dmcerik_at_dml_yahoo.com>

3. Re: Fuel vapor lock
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>

4. RE: AMC 390
From: "Ralph Isenberg, III" <delorean1981dmc_at_dml_hotmail.com>

5. RE: Troubles-updated/flames from exhaust
From: Gus Schlachter <gus_at_dml_austin.rr.com>

6. Re: Wooden De Lorean
From: "Chuck McKnight" <gullwingdoors_at_dml_yahoo.com>

7. Running light problem
From: Thomas Mc Auley <dmc4087_at_dml_yahoo.co.uk>

8. Re: Headlight Saver
From: "gullwingmag" <gullwing-magazine_at_dml_sbcglobal.net>

9. Speedo says my car is possessed
From: Gus Schlachter <gus_at_dml_austin.rr.com>

10. Re: To the DML - Hurricane Katrina
From: "Chris Williams" <chris_at_dml_cwilliams68.fsnet.co.uk>

11. Re: Re: Rough running/Throttle Cable Replacement
From: "Robert Lingo" <rlingo_at_dml_midsouth.rr.com>

12. Re: Window fogging up in rain...solutions?
From: "stainlessilusion" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>

13. Re: Window fogging up in rain...solutions?
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>

14. Re: New Owner, few questions
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_optonline.net>

15. Re: Window fogging up in rain...solutions?
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_optonline.net>

16. Re: Re: Need Grey Seat covers!
From: Bob Hajjar <yesinfred_at_dml_yahoo.com>

17. Re: 3 Month Storage
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_optonline.net>

18. Re: Fuel vapor lock
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_optonline.net>

19. Delorean Mid-Atlantic Fall Tour 2005
From: Delorean Mid-Altantic Club <clubevents_at_dml_deloreanmidatlantic.com>

20. RE: Headlight Saver
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

21. Re: Monster garage episode
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>

22. RE: Delorean Mid-Atlantic Fall Tour 2005
From: Delorean Mid-Altantic Club <clubevents_at_dml_deloreanmidatlantic.com>

23. RE: Window fogging up in rain...solutions?
From: "Kermit Poling" <KPoling_at_dml_Bellsouth.net>

24. Re: Window fogging up in rain...solutions?
From: "Jason" <rowejj_at_dml_tds.net>

25. RE: Troubles-updated/flames from exhaust
From: "Jeff Friday" <DeLorean_Type304_at_dml_msn.com>





Message: 1
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 19:10:52 -0000
From: "Chuck McKnight" <gullwingdoors_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: logo

Has anyone seen the logo for the new Civic?  It's a total rip-off of 
the DMC logo.  The last "C" is flipped so it looks like the "D" in the 
De Lorean logo.






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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 12:10:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Erik Geerdink <dmcerik_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Delorean mysteriously died

On my way to work yesterday i came to a stop light and my Delorean must have wanted to do a reinactment of the BTTF movie.  She just died.  But she didn't have any power whats so ever.  nothing.  No clicks, no crank.  Nothing.  I was able to push her into a parking lot close by (still 200 yards away).  I had this happen once before a few years ago.  What I did then was reseated all the connection in the back passenger side of the engine.  So I tried this again to see if it would help.  It did.
Interested once I got home I tried to recreate the situation but no luck.  Anyone have any ideas why my car died and then came back to life.  No issues since then.  I've put on 100 miles since yesterday.
 
erik




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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 19:26:00 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel vapor lock

Vapor lock is essentially what happens when the accumulator fails and 
you get the "hot start" problem. Normally cars with in-tank electric 
pumps won't vapor lock, (I recall back in carburated/mechanical pump 
days an electric pump near the tank was a common cure for vapor lock) 
but the K-jet system is a funny animal.

Dave Swingle

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, DMCVIN6683 <dmcvin6683_at_dml_w...> wrote:

>> Can our Deloreans experience fuel vapor lock? I have been told it 

could 

>> not happen.
>> 
>> Mark V







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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 15:18:44 -0400
From: "Ralph Isenberg, III" <delorean1981dmc_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: AMC 390

Was the guy positive it was DMC? Bricklin used the AMC 360 in 74 models 
before switching to Ford. I've not heard of DMC and AMC having any 
connection, but? Anyone else know?



>>From: DMCVIN6683 <dmcvin6683_at_dml_wi.rr.com>
>>Subject: [DML] AMC 390
>>I talked to a guy on Saturday and he said he worked at the Kenosha,
>>Wisconsin AMC plant and he shipped 7 AMC 390 Crate engines to Delorean around 1978-1979.





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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 14:30:52 -0500
From: Gus Schlachter <gus_at_dml_austin.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Troubles-updated/flames from exhaust


>> I've heard different things about this, is it a car running rich 
>> or lean that makes your eyes burn? Just curious.


Neither.  It's the repair bill.


Gus Schlachter
VIN #4695
Austin, Texas

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 19:32:51 -0000
From: "Chuck McKnight" <gullwingdoors_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Wooden De Lorean

Well, so far I've got 15 wooden De Lorean requests, but that's not 
quite enough to work.  I was wondering if any vendors would want to 
buy a large ammount of them to resell.

Chuck McKnight

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Chuck McKnight <gullwingdoors_at_dml_y...> 
wrote:

>> 
>> Hi everyone.  Have you seen the hand-carved wooden models of 

vehicles in malls or at flea markets?

>>I would like to see if anyone else would be interested in buying one.








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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 20:32:26 +0100 (BST)
From: Thomas Mc Auley <dmc4087_at_dml_yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Running light problem

Ok, my front left indicator/running light has a problem. It indicates ok, but it does not come on as a running light. The right side works fine. I have replaced the bulbs (double element) and have checked the fuses. I swopped around the wiring for each indicator that connects onto the front wiring loom, and the problem persists.
 
Suggestions?
 
Thanks!
Thomas Mc Auley
Vin #4087
Belfast





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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 19:35:00 -0000
From: "gullwingmag" <gullwing-magazine_at_dml_sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Headlight Saver

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Tom Watkins <outatime81_at_dml_y...> wrote:
Perhaps we could get some idea of the theory behind both versions?  I'm 
now very curious as to why there would be two different versions if it 
is supposed to do the same thing?

There is more than one way to do this fix.  I believe Toby (DeLorean 
Parts NorthWest) even has another method.  The fix written up in 
Gullwing Magazine was developed by a DeLorean Midwest member... Jake 
K.  Jake... maybe you can elaborate on your design?

Ron








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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 14:48:14 -0500
From: Gus Schlachter <gus_at_dml_austin.rr.com>
Subject: Speedo says my car is possessed

My DeLorean is mad at me.  I let it get hit.  Without getting into the 
collision specifics, let me just say that it wasn't my fault but I am to 
blame.

But now, my injured car is acting wounded.  The stereo stopped responding 
and the motorized faceplate is flipped halfway out.  About 2 minutes after 
that happened, the speedo became a bit inaccurate, wavering between 12 and 
99 MPH before dropping limp.  Oddly, an hour later it reversed the above 
procedure and started working again.

I'm guessing that the angle drive is bad and the current level of function 
is temporary serendipity.  However, this is already the second angle drive 
I've installed in 7 years, which is an average service life of about 8000 
miles.  This is a bit low, considering the price of this part.  (I don't 
even change my OIL after only 8000 miles!)

For the moment I'm going to assume the lower speedo cable is binding.  Is 
there any way to test that theory?  There's obviously a problem if I can 
barely turn it with my fingers, but I'm guessing it will be somewhere 
between "slight to moderate resistance" which means "I can't tell if this 
is good or not".


Gus Schlachter
VIN #4695
Austin, Texas

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 20:03:39 -0000
From: "Chris Williams" <chris_at_dml_cwilliams68.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: To the DML - Hurricane Katrina

A touch unfair I think, We over in the UK think a lot of our American 
frfriends and am sure this country will offer aid and help. My 
thoughts go out to all concerned.

Chris


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Bernie" <bmanderville_at_dml_c...> wrote:

>> Off topic but very important.
>> 
>> Hurricane Katrina, has devistated our country, no other country in 
>> the world will help us, we are on our own. 





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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 15:58:32 -0500
From: "Robert Lingo" <rlingo_at_dml_midsouth.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Rough running/Throttle Cable Replacement

Thanks for the trick Jeff.  I think I can tackle this problem quite easily 
now.

Lingo #2034


>>
>>
>> 






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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 20:18:11 -0000
From: "stainlessilusion" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>
Subject: Re: Window fogging up in rain...solutions?

A/C for defrost is true for new cars, but not for ours. Otherwise your 
fans would run and you'd hear the compressor kick in when you put the 
defroster on. I had the same problem-I fixed the air leak in the back 
of the A/C box [see tech section on DMCNEWS] and it didn't fog up as 
much. Then when I removed my dash I noticed large slits under each of 
the defroster ducts, once I put some RTV over these I had a great deal 
of air coming through the defrosters-like it should. No more fog. -----
Dani B. #5003



>> The defroster depends on the air conditioner to dehumidify the air 

that is 

>> blown on the windshield.  Is your AC working?
>> 
>> --
>> Mike








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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 20:50:10 -0000
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>
Subject: Re: Window fogging up in rain...solutions?

Derek,

If you need to "treat the symptom" while tracking down the cause,
you can try using Rain X Anti-Fog on the inside of the windows.

Make sure you try to dry out the inside of the car as much as
possible, since there is moisture inside the car, getting onto
the windows, whether it is from a roof/door leak or other source.
Keep a spare towel in the car so you don't need to use a sock.

Later,
Rich W.

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Derek" <derek.grozio_at_dml_v...> wrote:

>> Hey all,
>> 
>> Today was the first day I drove the D in heavy rain at night, as 

Katrina has started to hit us in 

>> the north east. The car had its windows fogged before I even got 

started driving, .... I had the wipers on 

>> high, and the vent on defrost on blower 3, but the window was 

still fogged from what 

>> appeared to be the outside (or in the middle?) as well as on the 

inside. The same was true for 

>> the door glass and toll booth windows also. 
>>
>> snip <









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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 21:07:35 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_optonline.net>
Subject: Re: New Owner, few questions

Since you just got the car from DMCH you should be calling them first.
The windows sound like you just need new switchs, but the idle can be
a little more involved. If the idle fluctuates only when cold it is no
biggie, it should be a lot smoother than 300 RPM's when hot. Use up
the gas in the car and put fresh stuff in and see if it improves.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Daniel" <dmcburn75_at_dml_y...> wrote:

>> Well after 9 years as a member of the DML I finally became an owner. I
>> purchased vin 4160 from DMC Texas last week. It is a very clean
>> DeLorean with 3000 original miles. I have two questions to throw out
>>








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Message: 15
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 21:04:18 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Window fogging up in rain...solutions?

If the inside of the glass is dirty it fogs up faster, especially if
the driver is (was) a smoker. Clean the inside glass surface with a
good glass cleaner and then I like Rainex Anti-Fog. It further cleans
the glass, goes on smooth, and helps prevent fogging. I also use
Rainex invisible wiper on the outside, it helps keep the glass clean,
it makes it harder for dirt and bugs to stick, and it makes it easier
to clean. I also keep a rag just in case it fogs up too fast for the
defroster to work.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Derek" <derek.grozio_at_dml_v...> wrote:

>> Hey all,
>> 
>> Today was the first day I drove the D in heavy rain at night, as

Katrina has started to hit us in 

>> the north east. The car had its windows fogged before I even got

started driving, so bad that I 

>>









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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 14:14:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bob Hajjar <yesinfred_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Need Grey Seat covers!

Mike, I may have an interest.   Bob

Packodenton_at_dml_aol.com wrote:I have several sets of Black & Gray NOS seat covers. If you want a pair of 
new NOS seat covers please email me.

Sincerely,
Mike




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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 21:10:41 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_optonline.net>
Subject: Re: 3 Month Storage

I have heard of Bounce too. I still prefer mothballs. I agree the
smell is hard to get out of a car. That is why I said put them UNDER
the car, not inside. They will keep small animals and spiders away
from the car, I don't know if Bounce can keep spiders away. I guess
you could put a sheet or 2 of bounce IN the car too.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, <delornut_at_dml_p...> wrote:

>> A better alternative is to use BOUNCE, the fabric softener sheets

you throw

>> in the clothes drier. That's what RV shops recomend. Rodents don't

like them








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Message: 18
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 21:20:20 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel vapor lock

Deloreans can experience a form of vapor lock. If there is a kink or
perforation in the suction hose that feeds the fuel pump you can get
air mixed with fuel or starve the pump for fuel and it would seem to
be vapor lock. The best defense against this is an annual inspection
of the suction hose for softening, kinks, or perforations. A spring
inside is also good insurance. The inside of the fuel tank is one of
those dreaded "hidden" areas. Since it IS a "hidden" area more often
than not it is NOT paid attention to so many of the fuel system
problems START in the fuel tank. Other hidden areas include:
Fuse and relay block
Bulkhead connectors by the ignition coil
Trailing arm bolts, shims, and bushings
ALL ground connections
The area under the intake manifold
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, DMCVIN6683 <dmcvin6683_at_dml_w...> wrote:

>> Can our Deloreans experience fuel vapor lock? I have been told it could 
>> not happen.
>> 
>> Mark V








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Message: 19
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 17:35:06 -0400
From: Delorean Mid-Altantic Club <clubevents_at_dml_deloreanmidatlantic.com>
Subject: Delorean Mid-Atlantic Fall Tour 2005

Summer is almost over!   :(    But that always means the DMA club is warming
up for the annual Fall foliage tour!!!!
 
After our most exciting year ever with huge turnouts by our members, we are
hot on the trail of having another great event for you to attend.  Details
are still be ironed out, but what we can tell you is this:
 
The tour will be the weekend of October 1st in Norwich, CT (Near the Native
America Casinos)
 
You can start by booking your room with the Casino for the night of Oct. 1st
Details can be found at:    <http://www.ramadanorwich.com/>
http://www.ramadanorwich.com/
 
The hotel is located just minutes from Mohegan Sun Casino, 15 minutes from
Foxwoods Casino, 15 minutes from Pequot Museum, and 20 minutes from Mystic
Seaport.   It offers a tavern, restaurant, fitness club, heated indoor pool,
and shuttle service to/from the casinos (until 1:30am)
 
The rate is 109.99 + tax and is expected to sell out fast.  We have reserved
15 rooms with an option for 5 more if we book the first 15 quickly. 
Note: The casino rate for Sat night at the Mohegan  in October is  $385.00
so this is a good deal all and all
The Group code for booking is "Fall Tour"
 
As an extra bonus, we have expanded our line of DMA logo apparel!  All of
which will be available the weekend of the Fall Tour.  YOU WONT WANT TO MISS
IT!
 
More details to follow soon, but hurry and book your spot now!   
Remember:  Details can always be found on our website
http://www.deloreanmidatlantic.com/updates/updates.htm
<http://www.deloreanmidatlantic.com> 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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Message: 20
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 17:30:22 -0500
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Headlight Saver

Tom, 
Again, I don't know how your car is wired or not wired, but I went out to a
car last night and with no key just opened it up and stepped on the brake
and the brake lights came on. If you have one that is wired different, then
that can be part of the problem. It will also be the first one I have seen
or heard about. Take a look at the diagram and you will see what I mean and
maybe you can tell me what's going on so I can make a modification. There
are other places to pull power from.
John Hervey



-----Original Message-----
From:Tom Watkins
Subject: [DML] Headlight Saver


John,
 
In my particular case this green/purple wire is not hot all the time.  I used a meter to check it out.  It is only hot when the key is in the "on" position.  Therefore with the car off and no key position #1 or #2  I got no parking lights, running lights or A/C panel lights.




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Message: 21
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 22:39:17 -0000
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>
Subject: Re: Monster garage episode

Ed and others,

DeLorean Hovercraft - Episode 29 (second season)

It's been over two years since the DeLorean Hovercraft build show
was filmed for Monster Garage and the show is still on the top of
the list for the producers and production staff.  In August 2005,
Discovery Channel Canada voted it into their Top 10 Coolest builds.

The DiscoveryChannel.ca production staff's picks for the ten coolest 
Monster Garage builds of all time. 

Number 3: DeLorean Hovercraft

Perhaps this kitchy piece of 80's flair was better off in Back To 
The Future. 
This is the only build on our Top 10 list that didn't actually work. 
Nevertheless, we've included it for the sheer moxy it took to try 
and put this together...

http://community.discoverychannel.ca/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/76810831/
m/26110694/r/39110894


More info at the links below for Episode 29: Delorean Hovercraft

http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/monstergarage/episode/season2/episo
de_29.html

http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/monstergarage/pass/weissensel.html

http://www.dmcnews.com/potm.html  (second series of photos down)

Later,
Rich W.


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Ed Kane <wingnut702001_at_dml_y...> wrote:

>> 
>> Hello,  I wanted to know if anybody new the name of the "Monster 

Garage" episode that used the delorean as a hovercraft.  I heard 
different stories about this and wanted to see it but never got what 
episode it was.   i don't believe in destroying a delorean,  cause i 
dont, just want to see this episode.  Thanks               

>> 
>>                                                                    

                            Ed  Vin 11212







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Message: 22
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 18:47:24 -0400
From: Delorean Mid-Altantic Club <clubevents_at_dml_deloreanmidatlantic.com>
Subject: RE: Delorean Mid-Atlantic Fall Tour 2005

Please note below: "You can start by booking your room with the Casino "
should have stated "You can start by booking your room with the HOTEL".
 
Sorry for any confusion this may have caused.  we are staying at a local
hotel...not the casino    ;) 

  _____  

From: Delorean Mid-Altantic Club [mailto:clubevents_at_dml_deloreanmidatlantic.com]

Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 5:35 PM
To: 'dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com'; DMCForum_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Delorean Mid-Atlantic Fall Tour 2005
Importance: High


Summer is almost over!   :(    But that always means the DMA club is warming
up for the annual Fall foliage tour!!!!
 
After our most exciting year ever with huge turnouts by our members, we are
hot on the trail of having another great event for you to attend.  Details
are still be ironed out, but what we can tell you is this:
 
The tour will be the weekend of October 1st in Norwich, CT (Near the Native
America Casinos)
 
You can start by booking your room with the Casino for the night of Oct. 1st
Details can be found at:    <http://www.ramadanorwich.com/>
http://www.ramadanorwich.com/
 
The hotel is located just minutes from Mohegan Sun Casino, 15 minutes from
Foxwoods Casino, 15 minutes from Pequot Museum, and 20 minutes from Mystic
Seaport.   It offers a tavern, restaurant, fitness club, heated indoor pool,
and shuttle service to/from the casinos (until 1:30am)
 
The rate is 109.99 + tax and is expected to sell out fast.  We have reserved
15 rooms with an option for 5 more if we book the first 15 quickly. 
Note: The casino rate for Sat night at the Mohegan  in October is  $385.00
so this is a good deal all and all
The Group code for booking is "Fall Tour"
 
As an extra bonus, we have expanded our line of DMA logo apparel!  All of
which will be available the weekend of the Fall Tour.  YOU WONT WANT TO MISS
IT!
 
More details to follow soon, but hurry and book your spot now!   
Remember:  Details can always be found on our website
http://www.deloreanmidatlantic.com/updates/updates.htm
<http://www.deloreanmidatlantic.com> 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 23
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 18:23:16 -0500
From: "Kermit Poling" <KPoling_at_dml_Bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: Window fogging up in rain...solutions?

Run the air conditioner.   Put it on MAX to start with.   It will defog the
windows even though it throws most of the air in a different direction.
Sometimes the only way to drive in the humid south, no matter how cool it is
outside.  (You can always add heat with the temp control.)
KermitP
#4547

Subject: [DML] Window fogging up in rain...solutions?






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Message: 24
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 19:05:03 -0500
From: "Jason" <rowejj_at_dml_tds.net>
Subject: Re: Window fogging up in rain...solutions?

            Try rain-x anti-fog for the inside windows. I personally don't
care for it a whole lot and have never tried it in my DeLorean but
everyones different. You might like it.

                                    Jason #5903



>> Hey all,
>>
>> Today was the first day I drove the D in heavy rain at night, The car had its windows fogged before I even got started driving,






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Message: 25
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 01:13:53 +0000
From: "Jeff Friday" <DeLorean_Type304_at_dml_msn.com>
Subject: RE: Troubles-updated/flames from exhaust

"Rich" is the eye burner.  A car may smell rich upon warm up but be in 
specs.  Once the car is warm and CO is properly set the exhaust will just 
smell bad but won't burn your eyes.  If the car is warmed up and burns your 
eyes than you're running too rich.

Jeff in NC



>>From: "Dom Diaz"
>>Subject: RE: [DML] Troubles-updated/flames from exhaust
>>
>>I've heard different things about this, is it a car running rich or lean that makes your eyes burn? Just curious.





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