Subject:[DML] Digest Number 2888
Date:24 Sep 2005 19:42:42 -0000

There are 20 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Cat removal
From: Martin Gutkowski <>

2. Re: Turbo
From: Martin Gutkowski <>

3. Re: Turbo
From: Marc Levy <>

4. Re: *** SS water return pipe = Battery ***
From: Martin Gutkowski <>

5. Re: Steering rack boot installation
From: "stainlessilusion" <>

6. Re: Time Machine at Pigeon Forge
From: "Alistair McCann" <>

7. 2006 Wall Calendars ready!
From: "Michael C. Babb" <>

8. Pj Grady Europe?
From: Patrick Conlon <>

9. Re: Ball joint failure
From: "stainlessilusion" <>

10. RE: 2006 Wall Calendars ready!
From: "Michael C. Babb" <>

11. Re: Re: Cooling fans
From: "Robert Lingo" <>

12. Re: This one for sale again? or still?

13. Re: linear door lock actuators
From: Ryan Wright <>

14. Help me please
From: Ed Kane <>

15. Cold water valve
From: Ed Kane <>

16. engine with no cat
From: Ed Kane <>

17. SS water return pipe
From: "Charles Major" <>

18. Did DMC Houston survive?
From: Stephen Jones <>

19. Galvanic corrosion
From: "Charlesdos Mavor" <>

20. Re: battery voltage loss
From: "cbl1739" <>

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 01:39:12 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <>
Subject: Re: Cat removal

Hi Stephen

You may like to actually try driving a DeLorean that has been de catted 
- and by this I do not mean simply gutting the contents of the existing 
cat*. The exhaust note changes noticably and the engine is without 
question perkier. I have no dyno sheets to prove this, but if you can 
find one owner who has a cat bypass pipe installed and did not 
experience greater performance, I'll eat a cat for tomorrow's breakfast 
 :-)  Meoww

Remember the DeLorean engine is unusual for a PRV in that it is catted - 
for 1981 this was very rare. ALL the european versions run considerably 
more horsepower and this all comes down to the fuel system not requiring 
a lambda system to keep a perfect  mixture. Running rich can be good for 
performance if tuned properly. Our euro converted engines are 
considerably more powerful, still running a stock exhaust, cat bypass 
and european B28E ignition and injection systems. One customer 
discovered his clutch was worn out immediately after collecting his car 
after the upgrade.

* I have one customer to whose car I fitted a cat bypass pipe. His old 
cat had a perfect hole strait down the middle. Despite this, he still 
reported improved pickup and crucially a marked increase in fuel economy.

By suggesting the DeLorean's stock exhaust is "tuned" is rather amusing 
really  :-) 

FYI catalytic converters were not mandatory in the UK till 1994 so we 
can legally remove them over here, and sell the pipe to do so. Are we 
being environmentally unfriendly? I suppose so, but we are burning less 
fuel doing it, so you could argue we're actually cutting down on CO2 


Stephen Schlachter wrote:

>>See my previous posts about removing the cat.  Doing so increases 
>>emissions, and adds no performance (and may even hinder it).  Just 
>>because you can't see the extra pollution doesn't mean it isn't there, 
>>and backpressure is part of the overall exhaust tuning.
>>The only reason to remove the cat is due to malfunction...and then, 
>>only to replace it.  If someone has a dyno test that demonstrates a 
>>measureable improvement in performance by increasing pollutants, I'd 
>>like to see it.


Message: 2
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 01:28:04 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <>
Subject: Re: Turbo

Anything more than 5psi without modifying the ignition timing and decent 
fuelling control will cause problems. The DeLorean engine is of a lower 
compression than european versions and this is why a low compression 
turbo can be installed. However the K-Jet system as it exists on the 
DeLorean, as well as the timing curve on the distributor are all wrong.


denverdelorean wrote:

>>Anyone know what psi the island kit runs?  Is it safe to run up to 
>>9lbs of boost?  I am doing research for a custom turbo setup. I am 
>>going to have a Japanese Import shop look at it.  They seem interested.


Message: 3
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 17:39:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marc Levy <>
Subject: Re: Turbo

I would not go over 6lbs, unless you live in Denver. 


--- denverdelorean <> wrote:

>> Anyone know what psi the island kit runs?  Is it
>> safe to run up to 
>> 9lbs of boost?  I am doing research for a custom
>> turbo setup. I am 
>> going to have a Japanese Import shop look at it. 
>> They seem interested.
>> Matt
>> #16076

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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 01:49:22 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <>
Subject: Re: *** SS water return pipe = Battery ***

I'm definitely not an expert here but I'll try and explain. My father 
who was a mechanical engineer used to tell me not to put aluminium and 
stainles pans in the washing up together. There were corrosiion marks on 
the ally pan and that was why. It's some sort of galvanic current which 
pits the aluminium (I'm british  :-) . It'll happen in water that's not 
pure - and anything short of distilled water is impure (distilled water 
does not conduct electricity for the same reason)

However, if you're using decent anti-freeze, the anti-corrosion agents 
in it should prevent the corrosion, and there'a  lot of metal to get 
through before causing problems, but my 2p is why risk it at all? I know 
of Lotus owners who've had trouble with stainless header tanks furring 
up the radiators woth ally from the engine.

But I'm no expert - someone please prove me wrong  :-) 


Jonathan Minor wrote:

>>I am also curious about the reaction between AL and
>>stainless...When I replaced the water pump in my 89
>>camaro about a year and a half ago, the bolts were
>>eaten away and I wanted to replace them with new bolts
>>that would last forever(stainless) but I was told not
>>to because a reaction between stainless and AL creates
>>a charge, so I got some regular bolts.
>>I also thought of that when I herd about the stainless
>>overflow bottle... Can someone explain?
>>Jon Minor(no vin)


Message: 5
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 01:32:32 -0000
From: "stainlessilusion" <>
Subject: Re: Steering rack boot installation

Sliding the new ones on huh? If you have the rack out of the car it's
that simple, but if you have it in-you will have one hell of a time
since the boots openings are smaller then the rack housing. The rack
takes gear old (what kind? 90W I think-I can't remember exactly, and I
used synthetic), and that's a chore to fill in the car also. So, if
you want to do it quick-take the rack out and install/fill everything.
Otherwise you'll spend more time trying to fill and get the boots on
then you would have taking the rack out. -----Dani B. #5003


Message: 6
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 03:29:14 +0100
From: "Alistair McCann" <>
Subject: Re: Time Machine at Pigeon Forge

Hi Bob

Chris Parnham in the UK has a BTTF replica also, pics of it are on the 
doc-uk website...



Message: 7
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 22:36:18 -0400
From: "Michael C. Babb" <>
Subject: 2006 Wall Calendars ready!

Hey all, if anyone is interested in checking out the calendar I have 
been working.on: is the link to the calendar 
itself and goes directly to the regular web store.

Thanks to all that submitted photos, I liked all of them and the only 
ones I didn't use were ones that were a little too small.

Hope you all like!



Message: 8
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 22:36:17 -0400
From: Patrick Conlon <>
Subject: Pj Grady Europe?

I had no clue that even existed.  What great  
pictures and information.  I especially like the page about the  
custom fabrication of a left front fender...I'm anxious to see that  
when it is completed.  Looks great so far.

I'm anxious to see 570 in Pheasant Run after that INTENSE restoration.

-Patrick C.


Message: 9
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 01:53:51 -0000
From: "stainlessilusion" <>
Subject: Re: Ball joint failure

Vibrations can be so many things: bad tie rods, bad ball joints, bad
rack, bad bearings, unbalanced tires or old tires with flat spots, bad
steering joints, etc so there is A LOT to check out. My car had the
recall, but all of my ball joints aren't even a year old. There were
no warnings of the failure coming while I was driving, when it
happened it just happened-snap and scrape. If you are running with 25
year old ball joints then hey, you may be able to keep going. I had a
1950 Buick with original ball joints and that thing drove great. But
it can't hurt to check them-and grease them up while you're at it.
-----Dani B.


Message: 10
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 22:49:10 -0400
From: "Michael C. Babb" <>
Subject: RE: 2006 Wall Calendars ready!

Completely forgot to mention as well that Cafe Press is offering an 
additional $2.00 off on all wall calendars through October 15th.  Simply 
enter CAL2 in the coupon box, and you can save some money!




Message: 11
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 22:08:37 -0500
From: "Robert Lingo" <>
Subject: Re: Re: Cooling fans

>> John Hervey wrote:
>>If the motor shaft hasn't walled out the
>> aluminum insert in the fan blade, then you will just have to keep trying 
>> and
>> then replace the keeper clip.

Thanks John.
The aluminum insert part of the fan is still intact.  I wasn't sure if the 
fans used clips in the first place.  It seems so long ago when I had them 
out.  Anyway, thanks for the help.

Lingo #2034


Message: 12
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 07:57:09 EDT
Subject: Re: This one for sale again? or still?

Is that ugly red car a modified Delorean?
boB  Cutrupi

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 13
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 22:33:48 -0700
From: Ryan Wright <>
Subject: Re: linear door lock actuators

For what it's worth, folks: I have Toby's door lock actuators and
there's an awful lot involved with them. Anyone looking to save money
by purchasing actuators elsewhere is going to be sorely disappointed.

For one, Toby's actuators are quite specific to the job; I'm not sure
if the actuators linked here will even fit in the right place, let
alone have the torque and speed required to unlock our doors.

For two, the actuators are only a part of a whole system. There is
custom hardware and electrical work involved; you don't just slap
actuators in and go. Basically it's just like Chris said: Toby's
actuator kits have the engineering done. I'm a decent engineer myself,
and I can tell you that duplicating Toby's setup would be 10 times
more effort than it's worth. By the time you're done "rolling your
own" you'll have spent any money you might have saved trying various
actuators and hardware combinations, not to mention countless hours
figuring out how to make it work. Then, will it keep working? Or will
it break and/or damage your locking mechanism a week later?

I use my car daily and have had Toby's setup installed for quite some
time now. I haven't had a single problem with it. Works perfectly
every time because it's been engineered specifically for our cars.


On 9/23/05, Qume Fox <> wrote:

>> Hey all.
>> I saw in one the the recent All electronics flyers I got that they had a supply
>> of automotive linear door lock actuators for $5.50 each.
>> I know DPNW's door actuator kits have allready had all the engineering
>> work done and just bolt on, but if you like doing things yourself, you can't
>> really beat the price so I thought i'd share.
>> category=search&item=DLA-1&type=store
>> Chris
>> VIN# 3209
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Message: 14
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 07:04:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ed Kane <>
Subject: Help me please

Hello everyone,  I need some help.  My D was running fine.  It would idle around 800 rpms.  No problems.  Now i just changed the water pump on it so i had the top of the motor apart as you all know.  I also put a new distributor cap on and new plug wires,  I changed the plugs about a month ago. I know i put all the plugs on rite cause i was very careful and did one at a time.  I put the top of the motor together double checked all the vaccum lines,  looked in the work manual and made sure they where all going to the rite places.  Now its the moment of truth.  I turn the key and the engine just cranked and cranked.  after a while i start to smell a little gas.  So  i stop let it sit for a minute and turn the key and it fires for half a second and then quits.  So i took the air cleaner assy. off and squirted starting fluid in the air intake and it fires rite up and keeps running.  Why didn't it start on its own?  So now its running at 1000 rpms then ihear this slight buzzing noise kick
 on and the engine goes up to 1500 rpms.  the buzzing stops and the engine goes down to 1000 again.  Buzz clicks on back up to 1500.  Now the car never did this before and i was able to trace the buzz from an electic plug that is attached to a fuel line that is located on the passenger side of the engine.  its sits kinda on top of the valve cover. The line doesnt go to an injector it comes from under the car and attaches to the rite side of the fuel distributor.  So anyways while its buzzing i pulled the plug and it went down to 1000 rpms.  Now the whole time the car is running its running a little ruff.  Ive seen cars run when you have plug wires in the wrong place.  Its not running this bad , just a little ruffer than what it used to.  I take the car for a test drive, and it pretty much fell on its face.  No power,  Does any body have any ideas.  Thank u      


I also put a new coil on it too.  

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Message: 15
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 07:12:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ed Kane <>
Subject: Cold water valve

What is the purpose of the cold water valve located on the cooling hose rite behind the engine. Thank you

Yahoo! for Good
 Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Message: 16
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 07:15:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ed Kane <>
Subject: engine with no cat

What did the car sound like when the cat was removed.  Did it sound healthy.

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Message: 17
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 15:47:14 +0000
From: "Charles Major" <>
Subject: SS water return pipe

I am asking the question myself----NOT saying that it will----

I love stainless, but you have to be aware...

***   SS water return pipe = Battery   ***

Hello Charles:
Since I am Not a chemist, How does the introduction of Stainless to the
system Create a Battery effect that will eat the Block?
Thank you Charles.
Pat in NJ


Message: 18
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:06:53 -0700
From: Stephen Jones <>
Subject: Did DMC Houston survive?

Any  news of how the new warehouse held up in the high winds?
I realise there are probably more serious things to worry about and
I hope anyone who stayed behind was safe.


Message: 19
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:25:47 -0000
From: "Charlesdos Mavor" <>
Subject: Galvanic corrosion

Here is one more site, it gives the numbers and limits. I know that
there are some really smart people on the list that can break it all
down for us. So, my question is should we be using plastics? Small
changes like the SS water return pipe and the SS coolant bottle may be
problems in 15 or 20 years for the block. I am asking not slaming
products (I have the SS pipe and want the bottle).



Message: 20
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 19:49:41 -0000
From: "cbl1739" <>
Subject: Re: battery voltage loss

A little 101 on alternator basics.

 A lot of people might think that power comes from the battery,  But 
that is not true,the source for all of that energy is the gas tank. 
Yep. And the link from the gas tank to the battery is that mysterious 
thing called the alternator. It takes mechanical power from the 
crankshaft, transmits it via a "fan" belt, (it used to run the 
cooling fan as well,but On the Deloreans,runs the Water pump and alt. 
only) (or serpentine belt as it is called in most of the newer cars), 
and turns the alternator. So, the main function of the alternator is 
to convert power from the gasoline engine that drives your Delorean, 
along the road, to electrical energy to keep the battery in tip-top 

So, what happens when your alternator goes bad? Well, at first, 
nothing. That is, because the battery has some reserve power in it, 
enough to keep the engine running for quite some time, (with the "D" 
orignal alt. charging it, maybe to the nearest safe spot to pull 
over) others,many many miles in fact. So a bad alternator doesn't 
necessarily mean a tow truck should be called right away. As long as 
energy is conserved elsewhere, like turning off the blower motor, the 
rear window de-fogger, the stereo and the headlights (if possible), 
you could make it for some distance(again NOT with the orignal "D" 
alt.) on just the battery reserve alone.

One major problem which will finally occur as the battery loses its 
charge is that there will not be sufficient voltage to keep the 
engine running well. What might and possibly WILL happen down the 
road,is that the catalytic converter Could/would be glowing white hot 
and flames coming from beneath the car.(You Don't want that, with a 
oil based Fiberglass body!!)  What had/would happen is the alternator 
quits, the battery runs down, the engine is not firing on all 
cylinders and the unburned fuel is being burned in the catalytic 
converter! Yikes!!

So, how do you know when your alternator is going bad? Most of the 
time the alternator fails in stages. A little techie talk here. The 
alternator gets its name from the fact that it generates alternating 
current (AC).  Well the battery can't use alternating current so the 
alternator output is fed into what are called diodes, which convert 
the AC into DC. The alternator has a unique feature in that it is 
able to generate a relatively high voltage while the engine is at 
idle.  The alternator can do this since it is really three 
alternators in one body. Each of the three sections of the alternator 
generates its voltage out of phase with the other two sections. Since 
the complete cycle (one revolution) of the alternator is 360 degrees, 
each phase is shifted by 120 degrees from the next phase. So in one 
revolution of the alternator it puts out three separate 
voltages.What.. You didn't know that?

OK, back to the failure mode. Each of the three phases has its own 
windings in the alternator and each of the windings has its own pair 
of diodes. Each of these windings and/or diodes can fail, one set at 
a time. If this happens the alternator can still charge the battery, 
but only with a limited current, approximately 2/3 of its original 
capacity if one system fails. If two systems fail, then it puts out 
only 1/3 of its rated capacity. What that means to you is that you 
can go a long time on a limping alternator. Chances are if you don't 
need headlights or air conditioning or other high current using 
accessories, you would never know that the alternator was in the 
process of failing! The time you will find out is when it is 10 below 
zero and you wear down the battery by cranking the starter, then put 
the fan on high for heat, and then drive in the dark.

In your case I would think,you have one or more, bad Diodes,causing 
your battery to discharge!!

So, how can you tell if your alternator is failing without taking it 
apart and doing some measuring inside the alternator? It's really 
pretty simple. You will need a simple voltmeter. You can get one at 
Radio Shack for under ten dollars or thereabouts. Here's what you do -
 start the car, make sure all the accessories are off and rev up the 
motor to a fast idle. Set the Voltmeter to the DC scale (not AC or 
Ohms). Measure the voltage across the battery terminals - red lead of 
the voltmeter on the positive terminal, black on the negative (ground 
in most cars). The voltage should, and probably will, read around 14 
volts. If it reads less than 12 volts you may indeed have a failed 
alternator, and you can skip the next step. Next, turn on the heater, 
the rear window de-fogger, the radio, the headlights and anything 
else that draws power. Now rev up the motor and watch the voltmeter.
(DON'T USE the Delorean Voltmeter to test) It should still be reading 
around 14 volts. If it reads lower than 13 volts the chances are that 
your alternator is not up to snuff.(Time to switch to the improved 
Vendor Alternators)

One last failure mode is of course noise. The rotor inside the 
alternator rotates on bearings, normally very high precision needle 
bearings, and these can fail. When they do you will hear a loud 
grinding noise associated with the alternator. To isolate the noise 
take a length of tubing, heater hose will do fine, put one end to 
your ear and move the other around in the vicinity of the alternator. 
The noise will be much louder when you point it at the alternator if 
that is the culprit. Other possibilities are the water pump, which 
are also driven by the engine belt. To further isolate the noise 
disconnect the drive belt and spin the alternator by hand. If you 
hear a rumble or grinding noise then the bearings are shot. If you 
don't hear a noise the problem may still be in the alternator since 
the bearing might be quiet without the loading of the drive belt 
tension. Check for side play in the pulley. If you are pretty certain 
the noise came from the alternator it is a relatively simple task to 
take it apart and visually inspect the bearings, or else swap it in 
for a improved Vendor(GM) alternator. 

Also make sure to check the connections at the battery terminals and 
also check to see that the voltage is the same at the alternator 
terminal (the big fat one with the heavy wire attached) Check to make 
sure the belts are tight and not slipping. Replace them if they are 
cracked or shiny on the side that faces the alternator pulley.

One final thing to check - the field voltage. In order for the 
alternator to generate electricity it must be supplied with a field 
voltage. If you know which wire is the one that supplies the field 
(normally labeled 'F') then simply check with a voltmeter to see if 
there is 12 volts at the field. Another check is to use a hacksaw 
blade or a lightweight screwdriver , anything magnetic, and hold it 
near the side of the alternator with the ignition switch turned in 
the on position. If there is a field voltage present then the metal 
will be attracted magnetically to the side of the alternator, not 
very strongly, but you will feel it pull the metal to the side of the 

Also you could install a cutoff on the battery,or disconnect the 
battery,and check the battery 24hrs.later for voltage loss.

Hope this helps


--- In, "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_s...> wrote:

>> Brian, How is the alternator doing. If there is a problem in it, 

that would

>> be one place.
>> John Hervey
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [] On 

Behalf Of

>> Brian Davis
>> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 8:07 PM
>> To:
>> Subject: [DML] battery voltage loss
>> If I leave my car parked for a few days my battery
>> draws all the way down. I originally thought it was my
>> door light switch as the light was staying on if I did
>> not get the door closed really solid. I adjusted the
>> switch and the light was going out. Problem is my
>> battery still has a slow draw somewhere.


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