Subject:[DML] Digest Number 2946
From:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Date:23 Oct 2005 22:35:47 -0000
To:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com

There are 15 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. RE: FanZilla versus the EBay competitor for Fan Controller Idle Stall
From: <rob_at_dml_pjgrady.com>

2. RE: Re: Doors
From: <rob_at_dml_pjgrady.com>

3. RE: Re: Strange acceleration problem ( For Rob Grady)
From: <rob_at_dml_pjgrady.com>

4. RE: Re: Strange acceleration problem ( For Rob Grady)
From: <rob_at_dml_pjgrady.com>

5. Re: Noise from fuel pump
From: Jeremiah Montee <angelito03299_at_dml_yahoo.com>

6. RE: RE: Strange acceleration problem
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

7. FanZilla VS "Fan Fix": Owner/enthuasist opinion & real world observations (long)
From: Packodenton_at_dml_aol.com

8. RE: Re: Strange acceleration problem ( For Rob Grady)
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

9. RE: FanZilla versus the Ebay competitor for Fan Controller Idle Stall
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

10. Accumulator ? for Rob Grady
From: "dmc_5180" <dmc_5180_at_dml_yahoo.com>

11. AW: FanZilla versus the EBay competitor for Fan Controller Idle Stall
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>

12. AC Setups (Early Vs. Later)
From: "brandelorean" <brandelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>

13. RE: Strange acceleration problem
From: doctorDHD_at_dml_aol.com

14. Delorean Mid-Atlantic Events
From: Kevin Abato <delorean_at_dml_abato.net>

15. RE: Strange acceleration problem
From: doctorDHD_at_dml_aol.com





Message: 1
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 20:02:06 -0400
From: <rob_at_dml_pjgrady.com>
Subject: RE: FanZilla versus the EBay competitor for Fan Controller Idle Stall

[MODERATOR NOTE: While I feel this is a legitimate topic for DML discussion, the thread continues to sneak in more and more things said outside the DML.  We frown on this tactic.  If you are going to post the words of non-DMLers, please indicate that you are doing so with their permission.  Also, please do not use the DML to argue with fellow DMLers about something they said in private.  - Mike Substelny, DML moderator of the week]


Please note-This post is a little long

John and the DML group,

Since you brought my name into this I feel obliged to respond. You're right
I don't really care for your "fan fix" as I bought one to test when they
first came out and found it was nothing more than an oversized relay in a
conduit box. I see from your website that you've spiffed it up a bit with a
fancier box and added ATC fuse-holders but it's still just a large, and
noisy when cycling on/off, relay. The "Fanzilla" is much quieter and
smoother in operation than the "fan fix". People can say whatever they want
but my experience leads me to always use the best quality part but not
always the cheapest as my reputation depends on it. If your fix was better
I'd buy it from you! The fuse-holders you use are the very ones that cause
all the meltdowns and potential fires when used as the standard "fan fail
link" in the relay update kits most venders sell. Hopefully they'll hold up
better in your application.
In twenty four years of DeLorean repairs I have never seen a fire or
meltdown in the factory supplied cooling fan circuit wiring loom and thatís
a simple fact. However I have seen many fan fail link meltdowns (especially
in cars from warmer climates) and recently (he picked up the car last week)
a fire caused by a link meltdown on a new customer's car as he drove down
from Massachusetts to have us do a "major service". This car was restored,
and the link wire installed, by a major vender six years before this to the
tune of twenty five "large". This link combined with a cooler temp fan
sender installed at the time (which caused the fans to run nonstop in warm
weather) overheated the link until it burst into flames! By the way his
stock wiring was unscathed although several relays were toast. I have a
picture that would prove it.  Fan fail links combined with cooling senders
that stay on too long or are eliminated entirely with an on/off switch are
what cause these problems. You mention having sold "over 200 units". That is
about one fifth of the "Fanzilla's" I've sold in the last twelve years and
we've had very few problems and NO meltdowns or overheated engine failures
on "Zilla" equipped cars. To say your unit is better than the "Fanzilla" is
IMHO pure nonsense. The "fan fix" is cheaper however so it may be better
than a fan fail link for those owners who can't afford "Zilla" products.
Cheaper doesn't make it better, or as good as, it just makes it cheaper.
Open up any "Zilla" product and you will find a lot of electrical parts...
not just a relay.
Shain told me that you threatened him with legal action which frankly is a
bully tactic if it's true. You have no more right to sue him than I do you
after you adopted the "Zilla" idea around nine years after we introduced it.
It's your right to make a cheaper part just as it is Shains. IMHO The
"Zilla" line of products are the most sophisticated and time tested
electrical upgrades that exist for the DeLorean. It is unfortunate that they
are currently unavailable and at least part of the reason is the cheaper
knockoff "Fan Fixes" and tank senders. How many different choices of parts
can be offered for a car, that saw a production run of under nine thousand,
before some of them become financially unfeasible, like "Tankzilla" for
instance, to produce? 
When they are available again you can be sure I'll be using them in our
customer's cars but in the meantime I've tested Shains fan controller and
think highly enough of it to use it as an acceptable alternative to
"Fanzilla" at this time. Although we don't have Shains fan controller on our
web-site yet we are offering it in limited supply and at a somewhat lower
price than the "FZ". Its microprocessor design is quite impressive. Mark
Levy, always the optimist, called it "overkill" but isn't that better than
half-baked? Interested parties can please call our toll free line for the
details if they wish.
 I don't wish to offend you John and I want the group to know that we use
and sell some of your products as you do ours but friends should be allowed
to express frank opinions and still be friends....right? You have simply
taken too many pot-shots at the "Zilla" product line for me to ignore it
publicly and still be credible.  Let's be friends and, where we differ, you
sell yours and I'll sell mine.

Sincerely,

Rob

-----Original Message-----
From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
John Hervey
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 7:23 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [DML] FanZilla versus the Ebay competitor for Fan Controller
Idle Stall

Shain, 
What do you mean you were not talking about me, You told me over the phone
that you and Rob didn't like it. You change the inrush current which last
maybe 1 or 2 milliseconds but you don't change the run current where the
damage is done. Keep the hot wire away from the cars wiring loom which is
what I do and rest better. Staggering is to me more of a cover up of other
problems that exist. Eliminate the high inrush current or run current and
then you have done something. Until then any device used in the fan circuit
is a temporary fix.  
John Hervey


-----Original Message-----
From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Shain
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 6:05 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [DML] FanZilla versus the Ebay competitor for Fan Controller
Idle Stall

John,

Although I was not talking about your unit,  it is configured similarly.
Actually it is easier to mount a fusible link right after the battery, then
drilling holes in the vehicle.  Also by staggering the activation of each
fan you reducing the current flow in the wire loom,  so it will never come
close to reaching 60 amps.

-Shain

[long quote left by moderator just this once]




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 2
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 20:16:42 -0400
From: <rob_at_dml_pjgrady.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Doors

Hi Sandor,

You and some others are correct in the correlation to "droopy" doors and
colder weather. Basic laws of physics cause gas's like nitrogen to expand
with heat and contract when cold just like water and ice. Residing in the
great white north you and I get to experience this first hand every winter.
I've probably adjusted more DeLorean torsion cars than John's whole
production run of cars. Whoever said you must never adjust the torsion bars
must be from Southern California. Are you reading this Ed?  Sandor BTW thank
you for the "you know what" as I'm having a great time with it!

Rob Grady

P.J.Grady Inc.

-----Original Message-----
From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
sandorp1
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 11:05 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: Doors

It is most likely the weather, not the struts.  I have brand new 
struts on my car.  They were perfect in warm weather, droopy when it 
got cold, and perfect again this summer.  Now that the weather is 
getting towards freezing they are a little droopy again.  Just the 
nature of 100 pound doors and nitrogen struts in cold weather.


Sandor
# 3002



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Joey Morgan <jlm1701music_at_dml_y...> 
wrote:

>>
>> Question....since the weather has gotten cooler I have
>> noticed my doors do not stay open all the way....they
>> hangin' a lil' limp....is this common for DeLoreans in
>> cold weather or does it sound like I might be needing
>> new door struts? Warm weather they were fine? 
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> Joey
>> #6297





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 3
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 20:41:11 -0400
From: <rob_at_dml_pjgrady.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Strange acceleration problem ( For Rob Grady)

Dennis,

One bad tank of gas in four years would be more than sufficient to cause
cold startup hesitation due to restricted fuel flow when your lambda circuit
is in its fixed rich mode as it is when cold. Try the filter as it's cheap
enough to do on a regular maintenance schedule. The omission of a heat stove
is probably not the problem as my green car is set up similar to yours
without this hesitation. Let us know if the filter works should you decide
to change it.
As for your friend he's overdue time-wise to change the accumulator as I
know of few if any cars that are still using an original, and functional,
accumulator. Another strong possibility is that the distributor reg. valve
o-rings he replaced are not suitable for use with today's gas and I would
suggest he pull the valve and recheck them as it's a 5 minute job (longer if
he,s mechanically challenged:).

Rob Grady

P.J.Grady Inc.
 

-----Original Message-----
From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
dmc_5180
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 3:19 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: Strange acceleration problem ( For Rob Grady)

Rob,

I too have a very similar experience when I Start my engine cold and then
immediately try 
to take off at a quick pace without letting the car warm up for a minute.
As I get to a 
certain rpm under acceleration the engine will suddenly fall off and
backfire pretty loud.  I 
let up on the accelerator a bit so it stops and continue at a less agressive
pace. it usually 
only happens once when cold. it generally goes away a half mile further down
the road.

I replaced my fuel filter 4-5 years ago and even then my fuel system was
quite clean inside 
the tank.  I was in their this spring and everything was quite good. I could
understand  
changing the filter if you went into the tank found rust and disintragated
rubber 
everywhere.  But mine is clean. I won't rule out changing it, but I would
like to know what 
the other things are I should look for the other 40% of the time.

One thing I should also point out is that I have  the Houston exhaust which
does not have 
provisions for the heat riser duct . I just have the pipe tucked loosely on
top of the right 
header so it can draw in any heat heat generated in the area. 

Other than this, the car runs perfectly. It always starts instantly and
idles smooth _at_dml_ 775 
unless it is really cold say less than 50 degrees out then it might idle
hunt a little for 3-4 
ups and downs before being constant.

On a diffenet note:

I have a friend who's car will not hot start, even if he just turned it off
and goes to restart. 
Although it will restart if you do the CPR connector swap on the cold start
valve. I was 
under the car a month ago and did a test where we ran the car with the
small return line 
running into a jar to see if the accumulator was bad.  After the initial
start-up 
pressurization of the system, which of coarse pushed fuel out of the spring
side of the 
accumulator, the flow almost stopped but did continue to drip albeit very
slowly  but was 
constant. I just can't imagine that this would make the car not restart
after shutting it off 5 
seconds earlier. He has replaced the fuel pump and the O-rings in the fuel
distibutor. The 
only thing left is the accumulator ,which he has, but hasn't gotten around
to changing yet. 
Are their any other possilities? 

 He also has cold weather hesitation although it is much different than my
symptoms. His 
car will stumble slightly when  when accelerating say for the first 10
minutes after the car 
has been started cold. it feels more like a mis in the engine than an all
out lean situation 
he's done an ignition tune up with no change. He runs a can of B-12 thru it
every few 
months, with no change. I even swapped my CPR for his to try see if that
might be the 
problem. no change their either accept he thought the car didn't accelerate
as well with my 
unit than his. so we switched them back, and his car ran fine again. My car
runs fine with 
my CPR so I'm not sure what the deal is their either.Many times he has to
depress the 
accelerator half way to the floor and then it will eventually start. His car
has been that way 
since he's owned it (5 years) it almost acts like it's flooded. On the other
hand my car 
always starts immediatley by just turning the key. We have been chasing this
mystery quite 
some time now.

Rob, any suggestions would grately appreciated. 

  Dennis 

[very long quote trimmed by moderator]




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 4
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 20:48:39 -0400
From: <rob_at_dml_pjgrady.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Strange acceleration problem ( For Rob Grady)

Hi Harold,

Thatís strange because I've seen very few of these check valve failures but
it is a possibility. A loose vacuum line to the CPR is a much more common
cause and the vacuum hose routing label should definitely be checked.

Rob Grady

-----Original Message-----
From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Harold McElraft
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 6:30 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: Strange acceleration problem ( For Rob Grady)

I am really surprised that no one seems focused on the delay valve 
that is THE functioning piece for cold acceleration. If that delay 
valve is out of spec you will have cold engine hesitation. I have 
had three DeLoreans and two failed. I have used a white cap delay 
valve as a replacement - my preference, as it has been closer to 
specs than OEM. Solved my hesitation problems instantly.

Harold McElraft - 3354


 
--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "dmc_5180" <dmc_5180_at_dml_y...> wrote:

>>
>> Rob,
>> 
>> I too have a very similar experience when I Start my engine cold 

and then immediately try 

>> to take off at a quick pace without letting the car warm up for a 

minute.  As I get to a 

>> certain rpm under acceleration the engine will suddenly fall off 

and backfire pretty loud.  I 

>> let up on the accelerator a bit so it stops and continue at a less 

agressive pace. it usually 

>> only happens once when cold. it generally goes away a half mile 

further down the road.

>> 
>> I replaced my fuel filter 4-5 years ago and even then my fuel 

system was quite clean inside 

>> the tank.  I was in their this spring and everything was quite 

good. I could understand  

>> changing the filter if you went into the tank found rust and 

disintragated rubber 

>> everywhere.  But mine is clean. I won't rule out changing it, but 

I would like to know what 

>> the other things are I should look for the other 40% of the time.
>> 
>> One thing I should also point out is that I have  the Houston 

exhaust which does not have 

>> provisions for the heat riser duct . I just have the pipe tucked 

loosely on top of the right 

>> header so it can draw in any heat heat generated in the area. 
>> 
>> Other than this, the car runs perfectly. It always starts 

instantly and idles smooth _at_dml_ 775 

>> unless it is really cold say less than 50 degrees out then it 

might idle hunt a little for 3-4 

>> ups and downs before being constant.
>> 
>> On a diffenet note:
>> 
>> I have a friend who's car will not hot start, even if he just 

turned it off and goes to restart. 

>> Although it will restart if you do the CPR connector swap on the 

cold start valve. I was 

>> under the car a month ago and did a test where we ran the car with 

the  small return line 

>> running into a jar to see if the accumulator was bad.  After the 

initial start-up 

>> pressurization of the system, which of coarse pushed fuel out of 

the spring side of the 

>> accumulator, the flow almost stopped but did continue to drip 

albeit very slowly  but was 

>> constant. I just can't imagine that this would make the car not 

restart after shutting it off 5 

>> seconds earlier. He has replaced the fuel pump and the O-rings in 

the fuel distibutor. The 

>> only thing left is the accumulator ,which he has, but hasn't 

gotten around to changing yet. 

>> Are their any other possilities? 
>> 
>>  He also has cold weather hesitation although it is much different 

than my symptoms. His 

>> car will stumble slightly when  when accelerating say for the 

first 10 minutes after the car 

>> has been started cold. it feels more like a mis in the engine than 

an all out lean situation 

>> he's done an ignition tune up with no change. He runs a can of B-

12 thru it every few 

>> months, with no change. I even swapped my CPR for his to try see 

if that might be the 

>> problem. no change their either accept he thought the car didn't 

accelerate as well with my 

>> unit than his. so we switched them back, and his car ran fine 

again. My car runs fine with 

>> my CPR so I'm not sure what the deal is their either.Many times he 

has to depress the 

>> accelerator half way to the floor and then it will eventually 

start. His car has been that way 

>> since he's owned it (5 years) it almost acts like it's flooded. On 

the other hand my car 

>> always starts immediatley by just turning the key. We have been 

chasing this mystery quite 

>> some time now.
>> 
>> Rob, any suggestions would grately appreciated. 
>> 
>>   Dennis 


[very long quote trimmed by moderator]




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 5
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:05:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeremiah Montee <angelito03299_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Noise from fuel pump

Actually these are very legitimate questions as I have
just had some similar experiences the last 24 hours.

It is normal for the pump to make a bit of noise in
position II of the ignition.  That is called "priming
the pump" and is completely normal.  It is also
completely normal for the pump to NOT make that noise
once every so often.  

As for the pump to be buzzing while the car is
running; this can vary depending on who you ask.  The
pump has two lines - main feed and return.  The main
feed is sending - what - 29 gallons of fuel an hour at
60-70 psi?  To say the least - alot of buzzing from
that line.  The return line makes very little in
comparison.  To hear a little buzzing is normal - at
least to me.  If you hear a lot of buzzing - loud to
the point that you wonder if bystanders can hear it as
you're driving by - or you feel any vibrations in the
AC console plate, that is abnormal.  Possible causes
(in my experiences...this is not a straight and true
"only" scenario here):

1.  Most probably the main feed line is rubbing up
against the underbody of the car, sending the
vibrations to the A/C console plate.

2.  Also most probably, one of the two fuel hoses is
kinked (bent, as if you squeezed a water hose over
itself) and the pressure buildup is causing the pump
to work harder because it's getting less fuel to
circulate through the system.

3.  Miscellaneous reasons could be dirty electrical
pigtail connections, faulty/failing RPM relay, heat
from the weather around you etc etc.

Recently on a 150 mile trip back from Monroeville, Al
- my pump was buzzing badly to where I could feel it
against the A/C console plate....

The steps I took were gaining access to the pump, 1.
rerouted the two hoses and made sure they had no bends
in them...2.  Routed the main feed hose away from the
underbody...3. Cleaned my fuel pump filter...4. 
Cleaned/Di-electric greased my RPM relay
connections...5.  Jumped the RPM relay and let the
pump run for a good two minutes to ensure nothing was
sticking in the pump motor..6.  Made sure the fuel
pump cover/boot was completely tightened and fastened
down securely.

So far...so good - another 200+ miles today with not a
issue.

Your questions are completely legitimate and shows you
have a desire to learn and understand what's going on.
 That will partly get you VERY far with understanding
how the car works...the other part that will help you
is actually doing this kind of stuff...whether it be
for practice or when the car breaks.  When that is is
up to you =P.

Jeremiah




	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 6
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 21:46:21 -0500
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: RE: Strange acceleration problem

Dave,  Here is my answer. 
The demand for fuel is higher when the engine is cold. 
The warm up regulator when cold has about a 1.5 bar of pressure (22PSI ) on
top of the control plunger in the fuel distributor. This allows the plunger
to rise higher allowing more fuel to flow to the injectors in the cold stage
of the engine. In other words it's running richer and needs more gas. 
Then as the car warms up and the resistor in the WUR heats up it allows the
bi-metal arm to start the change from a WUR to a CPR or control pressure
regulator ( CPR ) ( 3.8 bar 55 PSI ) it puts more pressure on the FD control
plunger by not allowing it to rise as high and feed as much fuel to the
injectors. 
About the same time all this is going on the 02 sensor is also leaning out
the fuel by allowing it to return to the tank. Hence: Less fuel is needed in
just a fuel minuets. 
With-in a few minuets after all this is done and the car is popping back
thru the air flow meter like a small back fire, then your running to lean
and normally the WUR is running to high on fuel pressure via the control
plunger if everything else is in order.
If your running ok after heat up then the demand for fuel isn't there as of
yet. But, If the filter isn't changed soon, then it will start leaning out
even after it gets warmed and start popping back thru the air flow meter.
When I'm dealing with the 911 Porsche people about this rich and lean
situation, a new fuel filter is the first thing I sell them or have them put
on. The reason is out of sight, out of mined on the filter and they forget
about it. Then we can analyze after that. The reason they have the problem
is because they redline the RPM's most of the time before they shift or it's
a 930 turbo. 
John Hervey

           

-----Original Message-----
From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
doctorDHD_at_dml_aol.com
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 1:39 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] RE: Strange acceleration problem

 
 
Can someone explain to me how a bad fuel filter can cause hesitation and  
back firing only when the engine is cold? 


 
Thanks,
 
D≤ & 6530




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 7
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 22:58:57 EDT
From: Packodenton_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: FanZilla VS "Fan Fix": Owner/enthuasist opinion & real world observations (long)


Hello All,
 
My email below has nothing to do with favoritism between vendors or  
personalities. It pertains to quality parts, products, and safe  quality upgrades that 
available to DeLorean owners and our cars.
 
I have been reading with anticipation about the return of Zilla products.  It 
has been many years since they were available, and I as well as  others, have 
wondered why Zilla's were temporarily out of stock,  and we now have the 
answer...
 
BobZilla, the creator of Zilla's, is a picky perfectionist and stickler for  
quality with everything he sets out to do...rightfully so when your name is  
on the product; a lesson past DMC vendors (now extinct) should have  learned!
 
Anyway, 
 
I had PJ Grady install a full set of Zilla products in to my 1981  Automatic, 
VIN 3713. The car never let me down.  I must say, that the Zilla  products 
were expensive, however they are worth every penny. I would  recommend them to 
every DeLorean owner everyday of the week, and twice on  Sunday.
 
On the other hand,
 
Over the July 4 2005 weekend, while I was working with another  DeLorean 
owner on his 1982 5-speed DeLorean, I witnessed first hand what a  cheap product 
can potentially do your DeLorean.
 
We decided to get together and have a "garage day"  We went  through his 
DeLorean and adjusted his doors, and preformed some safety  checks. It was a great 
day, and we accomplished a great deal of work  together.
 
The owner decided to install a "Fan Fix" in his 1982 DeLorean relay  
compartment since the Zilla's were unavailable. 
 
The DeLorean owner (no names please, I'm sure he's reading this email and  
can comment if he wants) also has a 1981 Automatic DeLorean with a FanZilla  
installed in the relay compartment.
 
We observed that when the vehicle is shut off, the "Fan Fix" continues to  
operate with a loud, audible hum. This had the potential to drain the vehicle  
battery and leave the owner stranded somewhere in B.F.E.
 
 The blue box "Fan Fix" did not operate correctly during multiple road  tests 
and quadruple checks for correct installation. What a bummer to  discover a 
defective upgrade part,  to an otherwise perfect day,  IMHO.
 
To get the "fan fix" to shut off after driving his DeLorean, the owner had  
to perform a "DeLorean Fire Drill" which was:
 
1) open the door,
2) walk around to the passenger side, 
3) open the passenger door, 
4) move the passenger seat forward, 
5) release the cargo net, 
6) pull back the carpet, 
7) open the relay compartment behind the seat, 
8) take his fist and "gently" hit the "fan fix" box to get the fans to shut  
off!
 
No Thanks!
 
Based on my observations, I was totally unimpressed with the "Fan Fix"  
product, and I seriously doubt that playing  "fire drill" around your  DeLorean is 
something that we want to do after we finish driving our cars. In my  opinion, 
the "fan fix" was no real world  "fix" at all. 
 
After witnessing, testing, and experiencing the quality of the Zilla  
products, I will faithfully continue to recommend the Zilla products to anyone  
interested in a quality upgrade for their DeLorean.
 
Thanks for your time,
Mike Pack
 
P.S. I am not affiliated with, Zilla products, PJ Grady DeLorean, or the  
maker of "Fan Fix" products. I am a DeLorean enthusiast/owner.
 
 
 
NOTE:   THIS DOCUMENT MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND NONPUBLIC INFORMATION.  IT 
IS  INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL(S) OR ENTITY(IES) NAMED 
ABOVE, AND  OTHERS SPECIFICALLY AUTHORIZED TO RECEIVE IT.  If you are not the 
intended  recipient of this document, you are notified that any review, 
dissemination,  distribution or copying of this communication is prohibited.  If you have 
 received this communication in error, please notify me immediately by return 
 email, delete the electronic message and destroy any printed copies.  Thank  
you for your cooperation.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 8
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 23:53:54 -0500
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Strange acceleration problem ( For Rob Grady)

Harold, I think the reason that didn't come up is we / group have to assume
that some things are done or looked at or may be obvious before it comes to
the DML. Vacuum lines and connections are fairly common problems. Then is
when I feel peoples back is against the wall and they are looking for
tougher answers. In any case your naturally correct on the vac delay valve.
I personally haven't had one bad, but as we get older so do they. Guess I
better find a new replacement.
John Hervey 


-----Original Message-----
From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
rob_at_dml_pjgrady.com
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 6:49 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [DML] Re: Strange acceleration problem ( For Rob Grady)

Hi Harold,

That's strange because I've seen very few of these check valve failures but
it is a possibility. A loose vacuum line to the CPR is a much more common
cause and the vacuum hose routing label should definitely be checked.

Rob Grady

[long quote trimmed by moderator]




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 9
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 00:16:19 -0500
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: FanZilla versus the Ebay competitor for Fan Controller Idle Stall

Shain, 
I am very familiar with idle stall in which the voltage drops down due to
the fans coming on and the electrical ECU's and car think they have been
turned off. 
Well, I appreciate what your doing but if the problem is masked then it may
never be fixed. You may very well have a bad battery, Bad grounds loose
connections and just improper maintenance causing the problem. 
I hear about spikes as others and the damage they can do but how many times
have ECU's been replaced or any other critical component that have be
contributed to them. As a builder of alternators, I have had 3 come back all
year and 2 were from bearings and 1 was a blown regulator. That's 3 out of
several 100 in the field and only 3 came back all year. 
I think spikes are talked about a lot but very, very rarely do they do any
damage to anything in the car. I also have some spike protection built into
the Fan Fix.
If you want to get rid of the problem all together, then put the new HE fans
on and problem is solved 100% and no Fan fix from anyone is needed.
John Hervey
  
  

-----Original Message-----
From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Shain
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 10:34 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [DML] FanZilla versus the Ebay competitor for Fan Controller
Idle Stall

[Moderator Note: DMLers are always welcome to disagree with each other as
long as you keep it polite.  Please be careful about escalating this
discussion.  - Mike Substelny, DML moderator of the week]


John,

I was reply to a post about the topic, which is also in a the subject line
of this discussion, the fan unit on ebay.  I am not trying to bash your
unit, unlike some replies I have received.  I was simply commenting on the
ebay units design of an unknown builder. As well as suggesting a way to
improve on your design, if I saw a particular flaw. What we talk about on
the phone, is off this discussion, thank you.  Current ranging from around
15 amps initial, and 8 amp continuous load, is quite capable of being
sustained on stock wiring.  After all the engineers of the car were not
totally off topic, and knew what the current ratings of the wires in the car
could handle. 

The main problem with the car has never been if the fans come on,  the
simple relay setup in the car allowed for this.  It's the initial pull of
current, in my case 15 amps instantaneous, or in your module 30 amps
instantaneous.  It can damage electrical components, alternators, batteries
and possible stall the car out on warm days with the a/c running.  A large
amount of owners believe that the fan just stop working,  this is not the
case.  My unit attempts to bring the load on the car up and down at a
gradual pace, similar to going from a temperature from 100 degrees, to 90,
to 80....  Similarly, backwards for initial startup.  Yours goes from 70 to
100 degrees.  I don't know about you but your body would like to acclimatize
to a temperature slowly, then being shocked.  This is the same for
electrical systems.

Please do not contribute anymore if it is going to be negative.  I was only
trying to inform a possible buyer of this ebay unit of a possible design
flaw in the unit.  Although I would like to see inside of one.  A while ago
I posted schematics for a free fan sequencer, and would like to see if it
uses my design.  Since I am the only one I know of that has contributed free
information on how to build a fan module.

-Shain 

[long quote trimmed by moderator]




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 10
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 06:21:44 -0000
From: "dmc_5180" <dmc_5180_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Accumulator ? for Rob Grady

Hi Rob,

I will change the the fuel filter again to see if that does the trick.

On another note : You said, my friends car is over-due for an accumulator change. You said, 
you know of few if any cars still running an original accumulator that are now 24 years old. 
Well, I have a question for you then. I use as my daily driver, an 86 AUDI COUPE GT with the 
very similar bosch K-jetronic injection system with an identical fuel accumulator. As near as I 
can tell its the original and I am the 2nd owner. The car has nearly 400,000 miles on it and if 
you look at the accumulator you would swear it would crumble in a pile of rust if you touched 
it. That is because its mounted just ahead of the right rear wheel where it is subject to a lot 
of salt used in the upper midwest. The car starts and runs dependably hot or cold.  I see 
delorean accumulators that appear to be new on the outside yet they go bad somewhat 
frequently.

What Gives?


Dennis







________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 11
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 08:31:14 +0200
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>
Subject: AW: FanZilla versus the EBay competitor for Fan Controller Idle Stall

[MODERATOR NOTE: While it is possible that someone who can answer this question will respond, it seems unlikely.  It would be very unusual for a DML subscriber to be able to explain the thoughts of a non-subscriber.  - Mike Substelny, DML moderator of the week]

Rob - just one question.

if the Zilla products are so good, why didn't he redesign the Lock Module
then ?
I took a Lockzilla apart because I was curious and what I found was the same
lousy
schematic that JZD used combined with some overkill relays and a circuit
breaker.

He didn't even reduce the standby current. I really wonder why he did this ?
All this work with new housing, new PCB, wiring .... but he didn't recognize
the main
problems of the original module ?
I haven't seen any other Zilla product yet, hopefully they are better than
this one
because after what I have seen I wouldn't waste my money for it !

But thanks for your words about the original fan wiring. I installed a
second relay
and two CB's lately to prevent any CB tripping and I relied on the orignal
wiring, too.
The modification was not only cheap, it was also done in about 20-30
minutes.
I use the fan fail socket for the second relay now. It looks clean and
almost stock.
So why install a Fanzilla (or any other aftermarket P&P product) ?

Elvis & 6548




John and the DML group,

Since you brought my name into this I feel obliged to respond. You're right
I don't really care for your "fan fix" as I bought one to test when they
first came out and found it was nothing more than an oversized relay in a
conduit box. I see from your website that you've spiffed it up a bit with a
fancier box and added ATC fuse-holders but it's still just a large, and
noisy when cycling on/off, relay. The "Fanzilla" is much quieter and
smoother in operation than the "fan fix". People can say whatever they want
but my experience leads me to always use the best quality part but not
always the cheapest as my reputation depends on it.

...... The "fan fix" is cheaper however so it may be better
than a fan fail link for those owners who can't afford "Zilla" products.
Cheaper doesn't make it better, or as good as, it just makes it cheaper.
Open up any "Zilla" product and you will find a lot of electrical parts...
not just a relay.
.....

Sincerely,

Rob





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 12
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 06:57:33 -0000
From: "brandelorean" <brandelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: AC Setups (Early Vs. Later)

Hey Everyone,

I have a question that really needs answering.  When taking my AC 
system apart to get ready to convert and setup with my Eagle Premier 
engine, I noticed that I have the earlier version dryer.

With that said, I know John sells that version dryer and I could 
always convert but here's where my main question comes in.

On my car, I don't have connections for a high pressure switch or a 
relief valve.  The hose goes directly from the evaporator/orifice tube 
and to the condensor.  The only wiring connection coming out of the 
firewall is the low pressure switch that connected to the 
accumulator.  This is how the system apparently was hooked up, I'm 
guessing because it was already cleared out before I got ahold of it.  
Everything (hoses etc) was connected real tight when I got it and 
looked like it had been for quite some time.....so it doesn't look 
like anything was taken apart.  

I have checked all over the place and don't see any cut wires or 
anything and so I'm wondering, is this how the earlier version cars 
were setup?  I'm really confused because when looking at the setup on 
John's site and looking at mine, I don't see the same thing.  

Am I missing something?  My vin is 3323 so it's before they switched 
over.  

Thanks for any suggestions you could provide.

Brandon
Vin 3323







________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 13
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 09:01:13 EDT
From: doctorDHD_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: RE: Strange acceleration problem

 
 
Just, thinking out loud hear...
 
If it were true that the "partially clogged fuel filter" was leaning out  the 
mixture, then why:
 
1) Doesn't the lambda system compensate for this? 
(Because the Lambda system doesn't work unless the engine is already warmed  
up??)
 
2) Why wouldn't the "partially clogged fuel filter" cause problems at high  
speeds when more fuel is needed?
 
Hey wait a minute I do have some missing at high speeds, I think I'll just  
change the filter and report back to the group...
 
D≤ & 6530
Dave Delman

Anyway,  if we assume that the fuel filter is partially clogged your car 
would be  running leaner due to impared fuel delivery. It would possibly run 
okay  when warm, but since the car NEEDS a richer mixture when cold, and 
can't  get it due to the clogged filter, the filter coiuld cause symptoms 
only  when cold. If it gets progressivley worse, eventually it would cause  
problems even when the engine is warm.

-Joe  Kuchan



 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 14
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 10:17:38 -0400
From: Kevin Abato <delorean_at_dml_abato.net>
Subject: Delorean Mid-Atlantic Events

The Delorean Mid-Atlantic Officers would like your help in planning our next
few events.  We are currently looking for help/locations to host our 2006
events.  
 
First up is our 2006 Spring social.  We are looking at the southern NJ area.
Do you know of a location where we can host an event, and would like to
coordinate details or run the event for us?
 
Then our annual summer fun run  -  We are open to any location for this
event.  Shoot us some ideas and let us know if you would like to run the
event.
 
Fall tour 2006.  The club officers are targeting PA for this event.  We are
working on some preliminary details, but if you would like to assist, or
have ideas, please let us know!
 
Send any comments or questions to officers(at)deloreanmidatlantic.com
 
Thank you!
 
- Delorean Mid-Atlantic Club


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 15
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 09:08:07 EDT
From: doctorDHD_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: RE: Strange acceleration problem

 
 
Daniel,
 
Remember the cold start valve spray fuel only when cranking, only when  cold, 
and only for a set number of seconds.
 
I don't think it would cause a backfiring problem since once the engine is  
running it is not used.
 
D≤ & 6530
 

My fuel  filter was replaced in August. About 2 months ago I was  having
a problem where the car wouldnt start when cold. It took many  atempts
to finally start. Dave Delman helped me with this problem locating  a
faulty electrical connection on the cold start valve. That seemed  to
correct the problem but I now get this backfiring. I'm thinking  the
cold start valve is going bad? 





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    dmcnews-unsubscribe_at_dml_yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------