Subject:[DML] Digest Number 2947
From:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Date:24 Oct 2005 13:51:56 -0000
To:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Strange acceleration problem
From: "pjgrady2000" <rob_at_dml_pjgrady.com>

2. Re: Strange acceleration problem
From: "pjgrady2000" <rob_at_dml_pjgrady.com>

3. Re: AC Setups (Early Vs. Later)
From: "dmc_5180" <dmc_5180_at_dml_yahoo.com>

4. Re: AC Setups (Early Vs. Later)
From: "dmc_5180" <dmc_5180_at_dml_yahoo.com>

5. B28F engine
From: "stainlessilusion" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>

6. Re: FanZilla versus the EBay competitor for Fan Controller Idle Stall
From: "pjgrady2000" <rob_at_dml_pjgrady.com>

7. My personal experience with my fanzilla and a fan fix.
From: "dmc_5180" <dmc_5180_at_dml_yahoo.com>

8. Re: AC Setups (Early Vs. Later)
From: "brandelorean" <brandelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>

9. Re: FanZilla versus the EBay competitor for Fan Controller Idle Stall
From: Martin Gutkowski <martin_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

10. RE: FanZilla VS "Fan Fix": Owner/enthuasist opinion & real world observations (long)
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

11. Re: Re: AC Setups (Early Vs. Later)
From: lordshill_at_dml_aol.com

12. Re: My personal experience with my fanzilla and a fan fix.
From: Martin Gutkowski <martin_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

13. Re: A/C compressor tied to fans?
From: "Marv Hein" <marvhein_at_dml_hotmail.com>

14. RE: My personal experience with my fanzilla and a fan fix.
From: "Shain" <dsmguy_at_dml_ptd.net>

15. Re: Strange acceleration problem
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_optonline.net>

16. Re: My personal experience with my fanzilla and a fan fix.
From: "dmc_5180" <dmc_5180_at_dml_yahoo.com>

17. Re: B28F engine
From: Qumefox <qumefox_at_dml_brazi.net>

18. RE: RE: Strange acceleration problem
From: "Joseph Kuchan" <josephkuchan_at_dml_hotmail.com>

19. Re: AC Setups (Early Vs. Later)
From: "brandelorean" <brandelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>

20. manual transmission.
From: "funkstuf" <funkstuf_at_dml_hotmail.com>

21. Delorean V-8 Conversions
From: "ramviper2" <gullable_at_dml_bellsouth.net>

22. DMC Ebay scams
From: "Scott" <bk2d80s_at_dml_yahoo.com>

23. aircon air flow contrast
From: "Chris Hawes" <chris_at_dml_chawes.demon.co.uk>

24. RE: FanZilla versus the EBay competitor for Fan Controller Idle Stall
From: <rob_at_dml_pjgrady.com>

25. RE: My personal experience with my fanzilla and a fan fix.
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>





Message: 1
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 19:58:13 -0000
From: "pjgrady2000" <rob_at_dml_pjgrady.com>
Subject: Re: Strange acceleration problem

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, doctorDHD_at_dml_a... wrote
Dave,

I thuoght I already had explaned it but here goes so read carefully! 
When a B28 engine is cold is when it's thirstiest for fuel and the 
Lamda (enrichment) curcuit is in a fixed rich mode. It therefore 
calls for IMHO more fuel than a partially clogged fuel filter can 
deliver in this short peak demand period. Does that make any sense?

Rob Grady,

P.J.Grady Inc.

>>  
>>  
>> Can someone explain to me how a bad fuel filter can cause 

hesitation and  

>> back firing only when the engine is cold? 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> Thanks,
>>  
>> Dē & 6530
>> 
>> Dan,
>> 
>> Before you try to trouble shoot the fuel injection I would  

suggest changing

>> the fuel filter. That corrects the symptoms you describe  more 

than half of

>> the time. Do you know when it was last changed? A bad CPR  won't 

allow you to

>> accelerate at all for a few minutes with a cold engine so  I doubt 

it's that.

>> 
>> Here is something ponder over. When I start my car  after sitting 

for

>> the night it starts up fine. When I give it gas to get out  of my
>> driveway and up the street, I notice I lose acceleration. I then  

here

>> a slight backfire in about 3-4 quicks pops. After this the car  

runs

>> fine and I don't get it again until the next day after  sitting
>> overnight. Any thoughts on the cause of this?  Thanks!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>









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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:05:48 -0000
From: "pjgrady2000" <rob_at_dml_pjgrady.com>
Subject: Re: Strange acceleration problem

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Daniel" <dmcburn75_at_dml_y...> wrote:

>>Daniel,


The cold start valve has absolutely no function once the engine is 
running unless it is staying on after startup (extremely rare). Your 
descrition isn't detailed enough to allow a diagnosis but I'd 
suspect it's ignition timing or fuel delivery related.

Rob Grady 

P,J,Grady Inc. 

>> My fuel filter was replaced in August. About 2 months ago I was 

having

>> a problem where the car wouldnt start when cold. It took many 

atempts

>> to finally start. Dave Delman helped me with this problem locating 

a

>> faulty electrical connection on the cold start valve. That seemed 

to

>> correct the problem but I now get this backfiring. I'm thinking the
>> cold start valve is going bad? 
>> 
>> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, doctorDHD_at_dml_a... wrote:
>
>>> >
>>> >  
>>> >  
>>> > Can someone explain to me how a bad fuel filter can cause 

hesitation

>> and  
>
>>> > back firing only when the engine is cold? 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> >  
>>> > Thanks,
>>> >  
>>> > Dē & 6530
>>> > 
>>> > Dan,
>>> > 
>>> > Before you try to trouble shoot the fuel injection I would  

suggest

>> changing
>
>>> > the fuel filter. That corrects the symptoms you describe  more 

than

>> half of
>
>>> > the time. Do you know when it was last changed? A bad CPR  won't
>
>> allow you to
>
>>> > accelerate at all for a few minutes with a cold engine so  I 

doubt

>> it's that.
>
>>> > 
>>> > Here is something ponder over. When I start my car  after 

sitting for

>>> > the night it starts up fine. When I give it gas to get out  of my
>>> > driveway and up the street, I notice I lose acceleration. I 

then  here

>>> > a slight backfire in about 3-4 quicks pops. After this the car  

runs

>>> > fine and I don't get it again until the next day after  sitting
>>> > overnight. Any thoughts on the cause of this?  Thanks!
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>> >
>
>>









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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:31:01 -0000
From: "dmc_5180" <dmc_5180_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: AC Setups (Early Vs. Later)

Brandon,

I think the early cars had the high pressure switch mounted at one of the condensor 
connections.   Because I know the early cars used a different Condensor and I remember 
seeing the strange different connections during a tech session. Take a look at your 
connections you may see what you are looking for at the left end of the condensor.

Dennis


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "brandelorean" <brandelorean_at_dml_y...> wrote:

>>
>> Hey Everyone,
>> 
>> I have a question that really needs answering.  When taking my AC 
>> system apart to get ready to convert and setup with my Eagle Premier 
>> engine, I noticed that I have the earlier version dryer.
>> 
>> With that said, I know John sells that version dryer and I could 
>> always convert but here's where my main question comes in.
>> 
>> On my car, I don't have connections for a high pressure switch or a 
>> relief valve.  The hose goes directly from the evaporator/orifice tube 
>> and to the condensor.  The only wiring connection coming out of the 
>> firewall is the low pressure switch that connected to the 
>> accumulator.  This is how the system apparently was hooked up, I'm 
>> guessing because it was already cleared out before I got ahold of it.  
>> Everything (hoses etc) was connected real tight when I got it and 
>> looked like it had been for quite some time.....so it doesn't look 
>> like anything was taken apart.  
>> 
>> I have checked all over the place and don't see any cut wires or 
>> anything and so I'm wondering, is this how the earlier version cars 
>> were setup?  I'm really confused because when looking at the setup on 
>> John's site and looking at mine, I don't see the same thing.  
>> 
>> Am I missing something?  My vin is 3323 so it's before they switched 
>> over.  
>> 
>> Thanks for any suggestions you could provide.
>> 
>> Brandon
>> Vin 3323
>>









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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:46:44 -0000
From: "dmc_5180" <dmc_5180_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: AC Setups (Early Vs. Later)

Brandon,

Sorry, I may have spoken too soon I just did a quick check with the parts manual. It shows 
the A/C hose from the accum. to the compressor using a spreader valve prior to VIN 34XX. 
I think this is commonly refered to as an expansion valve which the later cars don't have. 
This may be the reason you can't find the high pressure switch.


Dennis


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "brandelorean" <brandelorean_at_dml_y...> wrote:

>>
>> Hey Everyone,
>> 
>> I have a question that really needs answering.  When taking my AC 
>> system apart to get ready to convert and setup with my Eagle Premier 
>> engine, I noticed that I have the earlier version dryer.
>> 
>> With that said, I know John sells that version dryer and I could 
>> always convert but here's where my main question comes in.
>> 
>> On my car, I don't have connections for a high pressure switch or a 
>> relief valve.  The hose goes directly from the evaporator/orifice tube 
>> and to the condensor.  The only wiring connection coming out of the 
>> firewall is the low pressure switch that connected to the 
>> accumulator.  This is how the system apparently was hooked up, I'm 
>> guessing because it was already cleared out before I got ahold of it.  
>> Everything (hoses etc) was connected real tight when I got it and 
>> looked like it had been for quite some time.....so it doesn't look 
>> like anything was taken apart.  
>> 
>> I have checked all over the place and don't see any cut wires or 
>> anything and so I'm wondering, is this how the earlier version cars 
>> were setup?  I'm really confused because when looking at the setup on 
>> John's site and looking at mine, I don't see the same thing.  
>> 
>> Am I missing something?  My vin is 3323 so it's before they switched 
>> over.  
>> 
>> Thanks for any suggestions you could provide.
>> 
>> Brandon
>> Vin 3323
>>









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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:17:00 -0000
From: "stainlessilusion" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>
Subject: B28F engine

Hey guys, I just picked up a free B28F today. Does anyone know if the
camshafts in this engine are better performance then the ones in our
engines? I notice also that the intake and exhaust valves are
different sized then the DeLorean heads as well. Anyone out there use
this engine or components to convert to EFI? I may be interested in
this now that I have all the parts. -----Dani B. #5003







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Message: 6
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:29:47 -0000
From: "pjgrady2000" <rob_at_dml_pjgrady.com>
Subject: Re: FanZilla versus the EBay competitor for Fan Controller Idle Stall

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_g...> 
wrote:

>>Ellis,


I'll be happy to answer your question and I'll keep it very simple. 
While the original module caused numerous lock-ins, dead batteries, 
and burnt out solenoids I challenge you or anyone on the list to 
point out a single instance of this on a Lockzilla equiped car. Of 
all the "Zilla's" LZ is probably the most reliable with a failure 
rate I can count on one hand...with spare digits! It isn't my place 
to second guess "Bobzilla" on his design but perhaps he felt the 
original layout was a good one that was executed poorly. Thanks to 
him it isn't any longer. Speaking of executed..... why is it 
that "know it all's" like you and Martin G. keep dumping on the 
Zilla product line? It seems to be a central theme in many of your 
posts. So that is my queston for you and Martin. If you have nothing 
nice to say then perhaps you should keep it to yourselve's. After 
all thousands of satisfied "Zilla" owners can't be the gullable 
idiots you make them out to be. Does that answer your question? You 
know I'm really starting to enjoy answering these posts so keep it 
up!

Sincerely,

Rob Grady



>> [MODERATOR NOTE: While it is possible that someone who can answer 

this question will respond, it seems unlikely.  It would be very 
unusual for a DML subscriber to be able to explain the thoughts of a 
non-subscriber.  - Mike Substelny, DML moderator of the week]

>> 
>> Rob - just one question.
>> 
>> if the Zilla products are so good, why didn't he redesign the Lock 

Module

>> then ?
>> I took a Lockzilla apart because I was curious and what I found 

was the same

>> lousy
>> schematic that JZD used combined with some overkill relays and a 

circuit

>> breaker.
>> 
>> He didn't even reduce the standby current. I really wonder why he 

did this ?

>> All this work with new housing, new PCB, wiring .... but he didn't 

recognize

>> the main
>> problems of the original module ?
>> I haven't seen any other Zilla product yet, hopefully they are 

better than

>> this one
>> because after what I have seen I wouldn't waste my money for it !
>> 
>> But thanks for your words about the original fan wiring. I 

installed a

>> second relay
>> and two CB's lately to prevent any CB tripping and I relied on the 

orignal

>> wiring, too.
>> The modification was not only cheap, it was also done in about 20-

30

>> minutes.
>> I use the fan fail socket for the second relay now. It looks clean 

and

>> almost stock.
>> So why install a Fanzilla (or any other aftermarket P&P product) ?
>> 
>> Elvis & 6548
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> John and the DML group,
>> 
>> Since you brought my name into this I feel obliged to respond. 

You're right

>> I don't really care for your "fan fix" as I bought one to test 

when they

>> first came out and found it was nothing more than an oversized 

relay in a

>> conduit box. I see from your website that you've spiffed it up a 

bit with a

>> fancier box and added ATC fuse-holders but it's still just a 

large, and

>> noisy when cycling on/off, relay. The "Fanzilla" is much quieter 

and

>> smoother in operation than the "fan fix". People can say whatever 

they want

>> but my experience leads me to always use the best quality part but 

not

>> always the cheapest as my reputation depends on it.
>> 
>> ...... The "fan fix" is cheaper however so it may be better
>> than a fan fail link for those owners who can't afford "Zilla" 

products.

>> Cheaper doesn't make it better, or as good as, it just makes it 

cheaper.

>> Open up any "Zilla" product and you will find a lot of electrical 

parts...

>> not just a relay.
>> .....
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> 
>> Rob
>>









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Message: 7
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 23:12:54 -0000
From: "dmc_5180" <dmc_5180_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: My personal experience with my fanzilla and a fan fix.

Group,  

I'm not trying to jump on any band wagon here, I'm just giving my own experiences.

A very recent experience at The Evansville autofest a month ago. The Owner of a very 
familiar Yellow D was mentioning his car had been running hot during the trip to the 
show. So, I asked him if his fans were working. He wasn't sure so I had him turn the A/C 
on because that will force the fans to work. I did a quick check under the front end and it 
appeared only one was working. So we opened up the relay compartment to see if a fuse 
had blown. Well, not exactly, what we found was one of the fan fix fuse holders had 
completely melted down including the fuse. So what was happening was high resistance 
caused the fuse terminals to get hot and loose contact.   Just to verify that it wasn't a bad 
motor. I took my Fanzilla which I had bought at the Cleveland DCS show from my car and 
put it in his. Everything worked normal. So I removed the fanzilla unit. Fortunately 
someone else in the group had a spare double fuse link set up so we stuck that in his car 
to get him going again.

The above experience would concure with a statement Rob Grady had said about the Fan 
Fix fuse links being used. Maybe it just needs a better quality fuse holder installed. It's a 
cheap simple fix.

Something I should mention about my fanzilla unit. Somewhere along its installed life in 
my relay compartment, I had a very high resistance wire from the fuel pump curcuit laying 
against the fanzilla box. Well, this wire got so hot that it melted the plastic case of the box 
leaving a permanent wire impression in it and deforming the case around where it was 
touching it. The unit still works as good as ever, even though it looks like it had a 
meltdown. The bad wire was replaced and has caused no further trouble. If I ever get a 
digital camera I will post a picture so you can see what I have.  BTW: I mentioned this to 
Bob Zilla at Pigeon Forge. He told me he would replace the case for 15 bucks if I sent it to 
him. I just never got around  too it. Someday I will though.


Also if a relay sticks, which causes the fans to continue to  run, just change the relay and 
you should be good to go again. This statement is in response to Mike Packs experience. 
Unless it is sealed inside a plastic case ofcoarse.

BTW:  Rotate your parts purchases too all the vendors that support us. It will keep them 
alive and  well for a long time.  :-) 


Dennis







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Message: 8
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 23:11:51 -0000
From: "brandelorean" <brandelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: AC Setups (Early Vs. Later)

Hey Dennis,

I see, that may explain things.  So there is no high pressure 
connection then?  

Can anyone else explain this?  

It makes sense since I had Dan check his car (over vin 34XX) and his 
looks like what's shown on John Hervey's site with the high pressure 
switch etc.  

Since mine is 3323 maybe you are correct and it just uses the 
expansion valve instead.  

Anyone else have experience with this?

Thanks,

Brandon
Vin 3323

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "dmc_5180" <dmc_5180_at_dml_y...> wrote:

>>
>> Brandon,
>> 
>> Sorry, I may have spoken too soon I just did a quick check with 

the parts manual. 

>>









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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 00:49:02 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <martin_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: FanZilla versus the EBay competitor for Fan Controller Idle Stall

At the risk of moving outside the bounds of the DML, but seeing as you 
asked so -nicely- (that's British sarcasm BTW), I will give you specifics.

1) The FanZilla: Great concept, great execution from a reliability point 
of view, but should have evolved with the rest of the electronic world 
in the past 12 years..Perhaps then it'd be a bit more affordable - and 
not more expensive than a new alternator! (I'd like to check this before 
I send, but can't access pjgrady.com ATM) It should include some 
improved functionality that would show up an open circuit as well as a 
short circuit - a failure that's more likely especially given the flaw 
in the design of the fan motors (drain hole at the front, tilted 
backwards, happened to me) and part of the original fan fail module. 
Definitely cleverer than any alternative or other aftermarket 
replacement, and more reliable than the "jumper" wires. However at that 
price, it only covers some of the bases I'd like to see it cover before 
offering it to my customers.

2) LockZilla: Way too expensive. I don't know the specifics but am 
awaiting the chance to dismantle one to find out once and for all if 
it's truly redesigned or just, as are ours at 1/4 the price, a rebuilt 
stock module with new sealed relays and beefier components. I've had 
zero failures to date, but haven't been going 12 years. I'd love to put 
my redesigned unit into production, but it's not worth it.

3) TankZilla: 3rd party sender machined to fit the hole with a box of 
tricks to make it work on the DeLorean's electrics. Great, if it's 
reliable, but very expensive given that the DMCH unit came in at less 
than half the price and is a properly designed drop-in replacement. 
These facts alone speak volumes, IMO

My contributions to this thread on the DML has been to help owner get 
his car to stop stalling at idle, and to pass on my measurements for the 
cooling fans' current draw! I passed no comment on the FanZilla on this 
mailing list in this thread. You brought me into this.

I do not take any Zilla product owners (ZPO's has a certain ring as an 
acronym methinks!) as "gullible idiots". I do like my customers to be in 
full posession of the facts, and if I use my degree in electronics to 
that end, please forgive me. Everyone, by all means go out and buy Zilla 
products, they're reliable, but expensive, and not as good as they could 
be. All in my opinion, of course. Something I'm always careful to say

Martin
DeLorean Motor Cars Ltd
www.delorean.co.uk

pjgrady2000 wrote:


>>why is it 
>>that "know it all's" like you and Martin G. keep dumping on the 
>>Zilla product line? It seems to be a central theme in many of your 
>>posts. So that is my queston for you and Martin. If you have nothing 
>>nice to say then perhaps you should keep it to yourselve's. After 
>>all thousands of satisfied "Zilla" owners can't be the gullable 
>>idiots you make them out to be. 
>>







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Message: 10
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 19:04:54 -0500
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: FanZilla VS "Fan Fix": Owner/enthuasist opinion & real world observations (long)

Mike, I appreciate all comments on The Fan Fix and if you read the
instructions it will work perfect unless there is some other wiring problem.
That's why it say's it works with the original wiring. 
Naturally you have a biased opinion and you may be un-impressed with new
products from a different vendor as we all can be with products but again if
you want to know more about it and why it works the way it does I will
answer all questions and /or you can go to the web site to better understand
it's operation. The switching is different than the FanZilla but the out
come of load carrying is the same.
John Hervey

  

-----Original Message-----
From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Packodenton_at_dml_aol.com
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 8:59 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] FanZilla VS "Fan Fix": Owner/enthuasist opinion & real world
observations (long)


Hello All,
 
My email below has nothing to do with favoritism between vendors or  
personalities. It pertains to quality parts, products, and safe  quality
upgrades that 
available to DeLorean owners and our cars.
 
I have been reading with anticipation about the return of Zilla products.
It 
has been many years since they were available, and I as well as  others,
have 
wondered why Zilla's were temporarily out of stock,  and we now have the 
answer...
 
BobZilla, the creator of Zilla's, is a picky perfectionist and stickler for

quality with everything he sets out to do...rightfully so when your name is

on the product; a lesson past DMC vendors (now extinct) should have
learned!
 
Anyway, 
 
I had PJ Grady install a full set of Zilla products in to my 1981
Automatic, 
VIN 3713. The car never let me down.  I must say, that the Zilla  products 
were expensive, however they are worth every penny. I would  recommend them
to 
every DeLorean owner everyday of the week, and twice on  Sunday.
 
On the other hand,
 
Over the July 4 2005 weekend, while I was working with another  DeLorean 
owner on his 1982 5-speed DeLorean, I witnessed first hand what a  cheap
product 
can potentially do your DeLorean.
 
We decided to get together and have a "garage day"  We went  through his 
DeLorean and adjusted his doors, and preformed some safety  checks. It was a
great 
day, and we accomplished a great deal of work  together.
 
The owner decided to install a "Fan Fix" in his 1982 DeLorean relay  
compartment since the Zilla's were unavailable. 
 
The DeLorean owner (no names please, I'm sure he's reading this email and  
can comment if he wants) also has a 1981 Automatic DeLorean with a FanZilla

installed in the relay compartment.
 
We observed that when the vehicle is shut off, the "Fan Fix" continues to  
operate with a loud, audible hum. This had the potential to drain the
vehicle  
battery and leave the owner stranded somewhere in B.F.E.
 
 The blue box "Fan Fix" did not operate correctly during multiple road
tests 
and quadruple checks for correct installation. What a bummer to  discover a 
defective upgrade part,  to an otherwise perfect day,  IMHO.
 
To get the "fan fix" to shut off after driving his DeLorean, the owner had  
to perform a "DeLorean Fire Drill" which was:
 
1) open the door,
2) walk around to the passenger side, 
3) open the passenger door, 
4) move the passenger seat forward, 
5) release the cargo net, 
6) pull back the carpet, 
7) open the relay compartment behind the seat, 
8) take his fist and "gently" hit the "fan fix" box to get the fans to shut

off!
 
No Thanks!
 
Based on my observations, I was totally unimpressed with the "Fan Fix"  
product, and I seriously doubt that playing  "fire drill" around your
DeLorean is 
something that we want to do after we finish driving our cars. In my
opinion, 
the "fan fix" was no real world  "fix" at all. 
 
After witnessing, testing, and experiencing the quality of the Zilla  
products, I will faithfully continue to recommend the Zilla products to
anyone  
interested in a quality upgrade for their DeLorean.
 
Thanks for your time,
Mike Pack
 
P.S. I am not affiliated with, Zilla products, PJ Grady DeLorean, or the  
maker of "Fan Fix" products. I am a DeLorean enthusiast/owner.




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Message: 11
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:22:41 EDT
From: lordshill_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: AC Setups (Early Vs. Later)

 
Brandon and Dennis...The early cars( up to vin 3466) had a much different  
accumulator that the latter cars did. I ran into problems when I was changing  
over to a R134 system as a provider sent the wrong accumulator.  Roy   0893
 
 
 
In a message dated 10/23/2005 7:06:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
dmc_5180_at_dml_yahoo.com writes:

Brandon,

Sorry, I may have spoken too soon I just did a quick  check with the parts 
manual. It shows 
the A/C hose from the accum. to the  compressor using a spreader valve prior 
to VIN 34XX. 
I think this is  commonly refered to as an expansion valve which the later 
cars don't have.  
This may be the reason you can't find the high pressure  switch.


Dennis


 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 12
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 01:53:52 +0100
From: Martin Gutkowski <martin_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: My personal experience with my fanzilla and a fan fix.

I've seen otterstats get stuck too - it's not always the relay. The 
trick is to unplug the otterstat and see if the fans still run (AC off), 
if they do, it's the relay, of they don't, it's the otterstat.

Martin

dmc_5180 wrote:


>>Also if a relay sticks, which causes the fans to continue to  run, just change the relay and 
>>you should be good to go again. This statement is in response to Mike Packs experience. 
>>Unless it is sealed inside a plastic case ofcoarse.
>>
>>  
>>







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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 13
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 00:46:22 -0000
From: "Marv Hein" <marvhein_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: A/C compressor tied to fans?

It turned out one diode was removed completely... the wires were 
just connected together where the diode should be.  I'm not sure if 
removing the diode was the extent of the "fix" that kept the fans on 
anytime the A/C was on, but I'll find out when I replace the diode...

Marv
#10820


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Marv Hein" <marvhein_at_dml_h...> wrote:

>> Thanks to all who responded with consistent opinions that I need 

to 

>> explore what might be going on with the diodes. On and off list, 

folks 

>> have helped me identify their location. If I have a bad one, I've 

also 

>> found them available for purchase.
>> 
>> I'll let you know what I find when it's all resolved...
>> 









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Message: 14
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 21:13:08 -0400
From: "Shain" <dsmguy_at_dml_ptd.net>
Subject: RE: My personal experience with my fanzilla and a fan fix.

Hi Dennis,

I have had the same experience with past fuse holder sockets like you
mentioned.  The plastic around them is constant melting.  After working on
semi, and some race cars I work on we stopped using them.  The class style
fuses are just so much more reliable, providing you by a decent holder.  I
tried over 18 different holders when I built my fan unit, and let me tell
you not all holders are the same.  To find one that can hold 25 amps of
current,  with decent contacts is quite hard to find.  Although my original
prototypes I had built used the same style connector.  I had wanted to use a
fuse style that was readily available,  and in use in the car.  But after
talking to rob during the final stages of development he persuaded me to
change.  And although it takes me an additional 35 minutes or so to build
the unit,  additional machine of the case (although machine shops job),  I
believe it is a more reliable solution.  

I also agree in trying to rely on one or two good vendors.  Some parts are
better than others,  for instance John Herveys brake lines IMHO is much
better than the goodridge? version that broke on me later.

-Shain

-----Original Message-----
From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
dmc_5180
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 7:13 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] My personal experience with my fanzilla and a fan fix.

Group,  

I'm not trying to jump on any band wagon here, I'm just giving my own
experiences.

A very recent experience at The Evansville autofest a month ago. The Owner
of a very 
familiar Yellow D was mentioning his car had been running hot during the
trip to the 
show. So, I asked him if his fans were working. He wasn't sure so I had him
turn the A/C 
on because that will force the fans to work. I did a quick check under the
front end and it 
appeared only one was working. So we opened up the relay compartment to see
if a fuse 
had blown. Well, not exactly, what we found was one of the fan fix fuse
holders had 
completely melted down including the fuse. So what was happening was high
resistance 
caused the fuse terminals to get hot and loose contact.   Just to verify
that it wasn't a bad 
motor. I took my Fanzilla which I had bought at the Cleveland DCS show from
my car and 
put it in his. Everything worked normal. So I removed the fanzilla unit.
Fortunately 
someone else in the group had a spare double fuse link set up so we stuck
that in his car 
to get him going again.

The above experience would concure with a statement Rob Grady had said about
the Fan 
Fix fuse links being used. Maybe it just needs a better quality fuse holder
installed. It's a 
cheap simple fix.

Something I should mention about my fanzilla unit. Somewhere along its
installed life in 
my relay compartment, I had a very high resistance wire from the fuel pump
curcuit laying 
against the fanzilla box. Well, this wire got so hot that it melted the
plastic case of the box 
leaving a permanent wire impression in it and deforming the case around
where it was 
touching it. The unit still works as good as ever, even though it looks like
it had a 
meltdown. The bad wire was replaced and has caused no further trouble. If I
ever get a 
digital camera I will post a picture so you can see what I have.  BTW: I
mentioned this to 
Bob Zilla at Pigeon Forge. He told me he would replace the case for 15 bucks
if I sent it to 
him. I just never got around  too it. Someday I will though.


Also if a relay sticks, which causes the fans to continue to  run, just
change the relay and 
you should be good to go again. This statement is in response to Mike Packs
experience. 
Unless it is sealed inside a plastic case ofcoarse.

BTW:  Rotate your parts purchases too all the vendors that support us. It
will keep them 
alive and  well for a long time.  :-) 


Dennis




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 15
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 01:34:39 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Strange acceleration problem

I can understand and agree with this logic up to a point. In my
experience with many other kinds of cars with fuel injection the
general symptoms of a dirty fuel filter are not of idle problems
though. A typical symptom of a dirty fuel filter is at speed (over
30-40 MPH) the car starts to buck and feel like it is holding back.
When you let off the accelerator it seems to go normally again. I can
certainly agree with changing the filter, especially if you don't know
how long it has been in the car. One bad tank of gas can plug up the
filter anyway but if after changing the filter and the symptom still
is present then you will have to go looking for the "real" problem. I
like to look inside the gas tank. If I see water in a bubble on the
bottom or the hose is soft or there is a lot of dirt in the tank that
is where you should start. My philosopy is that most fuel problems
begin in the fuel tank. If it is dirty in there all that dirt will
wind up in the filter so you might as well clean the tank out BEFORE
you put that new filter in! On the subject of the accumulator, I
thought a good visual test was to remove the rubber "relief" hose and
see if the diaphram is bad because the accumulater would leak out back
to the tank. This is NOT a good test. On one car I did this and the
accumulater did not leak so I figured it HAD to be good. A pressure
gauge said no. After replacing the check valve and the "O" rings in
the regulator I still wasn't holding rest pressure. I replaced the
accumulator and it worked. After cutting open the accumulater the
drain port was CLOGGED with rubber bits from the diaphram. The "moral"
here is the accumulator is the chief cause of failure to hold rest
pressure. Replace it first unless you KNOW it has been replaced in the
recent past. If it is still origional and it is working you can expect
it to fail soon. Just figure on replacing it every 20 years or so
"just because", sort of like changing the fuel filter every 20,000 miles.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "pjgrady2000" <rob_at_dml_p...> wrote:

>>
>> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, doctorDHD_at_dml_a... wrote
>> Dave,
>> 
>> I thuoght I already had explaned it but here goes so read carefully! 
>> When a B28 engine is cold is when it's thirstiest for fuel and the 
>> Lamda (enrichment) curcuit is in a fixed rich mode. It therefore 
>> calls for IMHO more fuel than a partially clogged fuel filter can 
>> deliver in this short peak demand period. Does that make any sense?
>> 
>> Rob Grady,
>> 
>> P.J.Grady Inc.
>
>>> >  
>>> >  
>>> > Can someone explain to me how a bad fuel filter can cause 
>
>> hesitation and  
>
>>> > back firing only when the engine is cold? 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> >  
>>> > Thanks,
>>> >  
>>> > Dē & 6530
>>> > 
>>> > Dan,
>>> > 
>>> > Before you try to trouble shoot the fuel injection I would  
>
>> suggest changing
>
>>> > the fuel filter. That corrects the symptoms you describe  more 
>
>> than half of
>
>>> > the time. Do you know when it was last changed? A bad CPR  won't 
>
>> allow you to
>
>>> > accelerate at all for a few minutes with a cold engine so  I doubt 
>
>> it's that.
>
>>> > 
>>> > Here is something ponder over. When I start my car  after sitting 
>
>> for
>
>>> > the night it starts up fine. When I give it gas to get out  of my
>>> > driveway and up the street, I notice I lose acceleration. I then  
>
>> here
>
>>> > a slight backfire in about 3-4 quicks pops. After this the car  
>
>> runs
>
>>> > fine and I don't get it again until the next day after  sitting
>>> > overnight. Any thoughts on the cause of this?  Thanks!





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 16
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 03:30:00 -0000
From: "dmc_5180" <dmc_5180_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: My personal experience with my fanzilla and a fan fix.

Your right , I almost forgot about that possibility.

 Thanks, Martin


Dennis



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Martin Gutkowski <martin_at_dml_d...> wrote:

>>
>> I've seen otterstats get stuck too - it's not always the relay. The 
>> trick is to unplug the otterstat and see if the fans still run (AC off), 
>> if they do, it's the relay, of they don't, it's the otterstat.
>> 
>> Martin
>> 
>> dmc_5180 wrote:
>> 
>
>>> >Also if a relay sticks, which causes the fans to continue to  run, just change the relay 

and 

>>> >you should be good to go again. This statement is in response to Mike Packs 

experience. 

>>> >Unless it is sealed inside a plastic case ofcoarse.
>>> >
>>> >  
>>> >
>
>>









________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 17
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 22:56:24 -0500
From: Qumefox <qumefox_at_dml_brazi.net>
Subject: Re: B28F engine

stainlessilusion wrote:


>>Hey guys, I just picked up a free B28F today. Does anyone know if the
>>camshafts in this engine are better performance then the ones in our
>>engines? I notice also that the intake and exhaust valves are
>>different sized then the DeLorean heads as well. Anyone out there use
>>this engine or components to convert to EFI? I may be interested in
>>this now that I have all the parts. -----Dani B. #5003
>>
>>
>>

If the engine is noticably different from the delorean engine (sans
lower crankcase) then it's not a b28f, as the b28f is what the delorean
has in it. It could be a b27f, or a b280. I in no way claim to be an
expert so you'd probably have let someone knowledgeable on such things
see it or pics of it to find out for sure, but I know from what digging
i've done that all b28f's had the same head design, though I could be
wrong. It's happened before.. once.  :) 

--

Chris
VIN# 03209
http://badger.brazi.net/index.pl/delorean



--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.4/146 - Release Date: 10/21/2005






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 18
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 22:19:43 -0500
From: "Joseph Kuchan" <josephkuchan_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: RE: Strange acceleration problem


>>1) Doesn't the lambda system compensate for this?
>>(Because the Lambda system doesn't work unless the engine is already warmed
>>up??)


Exactly! It is in open loop until it sees an output from the lambda probe 
which doesn't happen for up to a minute or so in most cases. In fact, since 
our lambvda probes are of the early vintage, unheated design, the ECU can 
even drop out of closed loop on a warmed up car that is left idling for a 
poeriod of time. The exhaust stream can get too cold to hold the system in 
closed loop.

Probably the best way to diagnose a bad fuel filter is to replace it. It may 
or moay not be your problem. It may be part of it. The best way to tell is 
replace it and stop wondering about it. If you do that and still have the 
problem, at least you can look elsewhere.

-Joe Kuchan







________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 19
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 03:34:30 -0000
From: "brandelorean" <brandelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: AC Setups (Early Vs. Later)

Hey Roy,

So does yours have a high pressure switch etc or are you like me?

As for accumulator, John sells the bottom connecting type (early 
version) with dessicant for R134A or the stuff used for R12.  It 
really isn't anything special, just dissecant inside a welded tube.

Thanks,

Brandon
Vin 3323

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, lordshill_at_dml_a... wrote:

>>
>>  
>> Brandon and Dennis...The early cars( up to vin 3466) had a much 

different  

>> accumulator that the latter cars did. I ran into problems when I 

was changing  

>> over to a R134 system as a provider sent the wrong accumulator.  

Roy   0893

>>  
>>  
>>  
>> In a message dated 10/23/2005 7:06:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
>> dmc_5180_at_dml_y... writes:
>> 
>> Brandon,
>> 
>> Sorry, I may have spoken too soon I just did a quick  check with 

the parts 

>> manual. It shows 
>> the A/C hose from the accum. to the  compressor using a spreader 

valve prior 

>> to VIN 34XX. 
>> I think this is  commonly refered to as an expansion valve which 

the later 

>> cars don't have.  
>> This may be the reason you can't find the high pressure  switch.
>> 
>> 
>> Dennis
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>









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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 20
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 02:50:37 -0000
From: "funkstuf" <funkstuf_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: manual transmission.

Hello,
I've got a Project Delorean I just started on.  When I bought it, it 
ran and drove fine but the stick shift had a lot of play, kind of like 
when you got to the end range you weren't always sure if it was going 
to make it in gear.  Well, after a little driving, it turns out that 
it doesn't want to go into first.  I'm just sure you guys are going to 
give me a simple fix for this one.  Feel free to email me.

Dale Funk
Vin# 941 (My driveable project D)
Vin #4984 (I would drive it any where)







________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 21
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 05:42:27 -0000
From: "ramviper2" <gullable_at_dml_bellsouth.net>
Subject: Delorean V-8 Conversions

Hello all,this is ramviper2.Just got back on this group after my wife
had messed me up on her profile.I may have seen some of you at the
Delorean Show in Pigeon Forge.Being here in Tennessee,there are not
many D`s.But one of my big things that I have always wanted to if I
ever got one would be to give it more power,like a v-8.Now i like the
original but if someone could make the V-8 work really good in these
beautiful cars that would be awesome.I personal fav is any of the
Chevy V-8`s.I really like the Hemi or the Lotus conversion i saw on
someone else`s website but do you think there is room for say the big
Dodge Viper or is that really too much.I just like having that power
if i need it.I would like to have seen Delorean get through the
eighties and drop a Chevy v-8 into his car.Might have been a good fit
for the four door sedan he never made.I am a huge fan of these cars
and i don`t have one.Having financial troubles getting fund to
purchase one but i wanted to throw this out to you owners.Also like
the Caddy V-8 i saw at Memphis years ago but i think that company has
closed shop.thaks again for letting me rave.

Ramviper2







________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 22
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 05:50:15 -0000
From: "Scott" <bk2d80s_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: DMC Ebay scams

I don't know for sure, but, it seems like lately there have been a 
couple suspicious DMC auctions floating around.. One I saw has already 
been mentioned for 5,800.00 buy it now price.. I talked with 
the "owner", saying I wanted to come pick it up in Ohio.. But the car 
is of course overseas so I cant..Cause hes supposively in the military 
stationed in Scotland? He says he would ship it OVERSEAS free because 
the military would pay for it.. Wich could be legit actually.. But ?
Then there's this one that popped up today..
 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DeLorean-Restored-DeLorean-in-good-
condition_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ31830QQitemZ4584698849QQrdZ1QQsspa
genameZWDVW
If that doesnt work, it is item number: 4584698849
Just look at the auction and tell me it doesnt ring fishy.. 
Just thought I would see if any of you would like to opine.
-Scott







________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 23
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 08:07:15 +0100
From: "Chris Hawes" <chris_at_dml_chawes.demon.co.uk>
Subject: aircon air flow contrast

I re-furbished my aircon a little while ago (my evaporator blew) and
everything seems to work as it should except that if I want hot air I can
get it through the door and central vents but the foot area still blows
cold.

Does anyone have any ideas?  

Regards,
Chris Hawes
Vin 5255





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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 24
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:08:58 -0400
From: <rob_at_dml_pjgrady.com>
Subject: RE: FanZilla versus the EBay competitor for Fan Controller Idle Stall

Martin,

Hmmm..... you didn't build it because it would be at a price you "couldn't
justify". Sounds like a Fanzilla I suppose but why is it you two "electrical
engineers" can find so much fault with a product but aren't willing to
invest the time and money to invent something better for less as you suggest
it would be so easy to do. 
I suppose if I sold "Zilla's" and all of our other products at cost the
price would be more justifiable but as a business model it wouldn't hold
much water and I would be just another failed "flash in the pan" DeLorean
vendor like so many others. I know it's shameful to earn a living working on
DeLorean's but my customers seem to appreciate it and the last I heard you
were trying to do the same thing. I'm sure your engineering degree makes you
an instant expert on all things DeLorean so perhaps I can call you for
technical advice. NOT! I don't know about you but I've been doing this for
twenty four years and plan on twenty four more and I think you'll be moving
on to greener pastures long before then. I'll miss you but you won't see me
bashing your products and I assure you it's not because you haven't made
anything. It's called professional courtesy which seems to be sorely lacking
in this business. Perhaps I should abandon this practice of selling
solutions that some people don't appreciate and concentrate on replacing all
of the extra blown solenoids, batteries, and engines I could sell as a
result! I realize that this debate will be endless and indeed pointless so
I'll go about doing what I always do...fixing DeLorean's. 

P.S. Martin, I do agree that Fanzilla could be revamped using today's
technology to create a smaller and hopefully less expensive package.
"Bobzilla" and I have discussed this very topic before. If and when he does
get the Zilla's back into production I think you'll see some interesting
developments. However Bob's a resourceful guy and the Zilla's were never
intended to be his sole source of income. Bob stopped checking and
responding to any provocations on the DML and the Forum a long time ago
because he doesn't need the aggravation. A good way to see that they are
never produced again would be to keep up the complaining and it's possible
he'll can the whole idea and pursue other interests. Wouldn't that be great!
Then certain individuals can boast how they killed the mighty Zilla's and
pound their chests. Then we can go back to using fan fail links that burst
in flames and "Fan Fix's" that have to be disconnected manually to turn
off...lest they too burst in flames. I didn't realize they were causing
these problems so I guess I learned something useful from this debate.

Have a nice day,

Rob Grady,

 
-----Original Message-----
From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Martin Gutkowski
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 7:49 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Cc: elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de
Subject: Re: [DML] FanZilla versus the EBay competitor for Fan Controller
Idle Stall

At the risk of moving outside the bounds of the DML, but seeing as you 
asked so -nicely- (that's British sarcasm BTW), I will give you specifics.

[moderator snip]





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 25
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 08:34:21 -0500
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: My personal experience with my fanzilla and a fan fix.

DMC_5180, 
Please tell the whole story, what you failed to mention was the owner of the
Very well known Yellow car had a previous fire, yes fire in his car with the
factory un-fused jumper. The car ran fine apparently for years and then all
of a sudden it burned. Something caused it and my feeling is one of the fans
is drawing to much current due to age or an intermit short. 
I don't think the original problem was ever found . 
Then the Fan Fix was plugged in and one of the fuse holder melted. Yes, One
of the fuse holder could have melted due to a loose connection inside but I
told him to, to try to figure out which fan was drawing to much current.
Something is wrong in the circuit to have this happen twice and in my
opinion the problem hasn't gone away. It's just been masked over again.
John Hervey
    





--Original Message-----
From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
dmc_5180
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 5:13 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] My personal experience with my fanzilla and a fan fix.

Group,  

I'm not trying to jump on any band wagon here, I'm just giving my own
experiences.

A very recent experience at The Evansville autofest a month ago. The Owner
of a very 
familiar Yellow D was mentioning his car had been running hot during the
trip to the 
show. So, I asked him if his fans were working. He wasn't sure so I had him
turn the A/C 
on because that will force the fans to work. I did a quick check under the
front end and it 
appeared only one was working. So we opened up the relay compartment to see
if a fuse 
had blown. Well, not exactly, what we found was one of the fan fix fuse
holders had 
completely melted down including the fuse. 
[moderator snip]




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


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