Subject:[DML] Digest Number 2989
From:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Date:18 Nov 2005 23:46:48 -0000
To:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com

There are 15 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Horn Button Popped Off
From: mike clemens <rmclemns_at_dml_yahoo.com>

2. Re: Can we ALL come to a correct definition of these DeLorean terms?
From: Steve Stankiewicz <protodelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>

3. Gullwing Mag new issue
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>

4. RE: Idle Problems
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>

5. Re: Can we ALL come to a correct definition of these DeLorean terms?
From: "cbl1739" <cbl302_at_dml_sbcglobal.net>

6. Special T Auto status
From: "jrc2905" <jrc2905_at_dml_aol.com>

7. Re: 911, engine running on 3 cylinders MORE INFO
From: "odell_andy" <odell_andy_at_dml_yahoo.co.uk>

8. RE: Special T Auto status
From: "robert parker" <roberthparker_at_dml_hotmail.com>

9. Re: Can we ALL come to a correct definition of these DeLorean terms?
From: DMCPROTO1_at_dml_aol.com

10. Re: 911, engine running on 3 cylinders MORE INFO
From: "twinenginedmc12" <twinenginedmc12_at_dml_gendreaumicro.com>

11. Idle Still Stuck
From: "Michael & Denise" <luckeys71_at_dml_cox.net>

12. Re: 911, engine running on 3 cylinders MORE INFO
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net

13. DMC in CNN Cartoon Clicks
From: "John Macias" <jdm5_at_dml_hotmail.com>

14. Re: Can we ALL come to a correct definition of these DeLorean terms?
From: "Murray Fisher" <murrayfw_at_dml_charter.net>

15. Re: 911, engine running on 3 cylinders MORE INFO
From: "dmcchaser" <dmcchaser_at_dml_juno.com>





Message: 1
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 15:22:36 -0800 (PST)
From: mike clemens <rmclemns_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Horn Button Popped Off

Shannon,

I've got mine apart and noted that besides the spring
inside and the cone with a copper ring in the knob,
there are no other parts.  But, you need to check the
knob real close.  It is held to the stalk portion by a
ridge in the plastic that goes completely around the
inner part of the knob.  This ridge is only about the
size of a piece of small safety wire.  If the ridge is
there on yours and undamaged, then check the stalk
portion that it fits into.  I'm almost certain you'll
find a crack in this part and it is not allowing the
ridge on the knob to engage properly and securely. 
Let me know if this helps.

Mike 



--- birdwell77095 <birdwells_at_dml_usa.net> wrote:


>> While reaching under the dash to release the hood
>> latch I accidently 
>> hit the horn button and knocked off the cap at the
>> end of the turn 
>> signal arm. I have a spring and cap but when I put
>> the sping back on 
>> and push the cap back on, the cap barely stays
>> connected to the arm. 
>> 





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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 13:54:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Stankiewicz <protodelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Can we ALL come to a correct definition of these DeLorean terms?

I think this all comes down to what we perceive the
Delorean as.  Do we see it as a car with a rear-engine
config?  Or as a Stainless-skinned gullwinged
doored...yadda yadda yadda?  Since Proto1 embodied
much more of what the Delorean came to be than Red
Rocket, it appears to be THE prototype.  I assume the
frame under Proto1 was hand fabricated, but to me,
Proto1 wouldn't be any less valuable if it had been
built around an existing (fiat) chassis.  If it had, I
doubt that anyone would be saying "That's not the
prototype because it has an original VIN".  Red Rocket
wasn't THE prototype not because it was built on a
production chassis, but because, with the exception of
a rear-engine, it had none of the design elements that
became the Delorean DMC-12.  It was a concept test and
it is definitely part of the Delorean history, but
it's nothing of the magnitude Proto1.


Steve

VIN 2650 ("Project Delorean")
www.projectdelorean.com


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com




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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 03:34:50 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>
Subject: Gullwing Mag new issue

Ron - awesome job on this issue. We'd hoped that someday our front yard 
would be featured in a magazine, but we were expecting something more 
like House and Garden....

Dave Swingle

PS - the tire prints are gone now, and so are the little white moths. 







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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 08:34:40 +0100 (MET)
From: "Elvis Nocita" <elvisnocita_at_dml_gmx.de>
Subject: RE: Idle Problems

Yes, there is a temperature sensor that tells the ECU to increase idle when
cold, but 3000rpm is too much.

>From what I remember it is located under the intake manifold.

You can test it when you bridge Pin 9 and 11 of the ECU, then idle should go
back to normal - if it was just the sensor. This test goes much faster then
taking off the intake...

Elvis & 6548





>> 
>> If I unplug the idle speed motor the engine will throttle right down and
>> eventually stall. When I plug the idle speed motor back in it goes full
>> blown back to 3,000 rpm.
>> 
>> I agree this points to the idle motor and the ECU. The question I have, is
>> there a sensor or wire that tells the ECU to adjust the idle speed located
>> on top of the engine where Mike was working that could have been shorted
>> or
>> broken?
>> 
>> Dave Sontos 


-- Telefonieren Sie schon oder sparen Sie noch? NEU: GMX Phone_Flat http://www.gmx.net/de/go/telefonie ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 04:59:28 -0000 From: "cbl1739" <cbl302_at_dml_sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: Can we ALL come to a correct definition of these DeLorean terms? Well whatever you want to call it,I can guarantee you,that it would be THE most valued x19 around today,if it still exist(ed)! It's to bad that he did not do both concepts,(in the same size as a standard issue Delorean,not the size of the original x19 of course)It would have been nice to have both a open coupe and a Gullwing,and it would/could have insured DMC a better future.It could have been done/happened,if the DMC engineers and JZD,(especially JZD)wasn't so mule headed into only making a gullwing coupe.Picture a Stainless Steel,open air,targa top DMC,NICE!! That would have been ONE hot seller! Back to proto1, I never said P1,wasn't THE Delorean at the top of the pack,in fact that is what the Lotus Mules were copied from(the early ones)again IT IS the benchmark car,that set the standards,for what the future DMC was to become. I though proto2 was sold at the same auction,(as proto1)and still existed in someones garage,when did it get destroyed. Also what is the Vin used for proto1 one anyway,if it even has vin plates issued to it,since I mean it was a proto,and those usually don't end up being privately owned/registered. cbl --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Steve Stankiewicz <protodelorean_at_dml_y...> wrote:

>>
>> I think this all comes down to what we perceive the
>> Delorean as.  Do we see it as a car with a rear-engine
>> config?  Or as a Stainless-skinned gullwinged
>> doored...yadda yadda yadda?  Since Proto1 embodied
>> much more of what the Delorean came to be than Red
>> Rocket, it appears to be THE prototype.  I assume the
>> frame under Proto1 was hand fabricated, but to me,
>> Proto1 wouldn't be any less valuable if it had been
>> built around an existing (fiat) chassis.  If it had, I
>> doubt that anyone would be saying "That's not the
>> prototype because it has an original VIN".  Red Rocket
>> wasn't THE prototype not because it was built on a
>> production chassis, but because, with the exception of
>> a rear-engine, it had none of the design elements that
>> became the Delorean DMC-12.  It was a concept test and
>> it is definitely part of the Delorean history, but
>> it's nothing of the magnitude Proto1.
>> 
>> 
>> Steve
>> 
>> VIN 2650 ("Project Delorean")
>> www.projectdelorean.com
>> 
>> 
>> 		
>> __________________________________ 
>> Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
>> http://farechase.yahoo.com
>>









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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 03:53:16 -0000
From: "jrc2905" <jrc2905_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Special T Auto status

First I want to say that I have had nothing but good experience with 
Special T Auto. If John is unavailable for any reason I do not want to 
be a bother. People have stated here that business is going on somewhat 
as usual. I am still unable to confirm my order for parts that I need 
to put my car on the road. I am willing to wait. 
Perhaps someone who is in contact with this business entity could 
explain the current status. 
If it is a health issue then I hope he gets well soon.








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Message: 7
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 16:55:23 -0000
From: "odell_andy" <odell_andy_at_dml_yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: 911, engine running on 3 cylinders MORE INFO

thanks for your help guys. my car (or me) is Jinxed.
i have the 3 groups of 2 distributor cap. it is really starting to 
annoy me that you have to dismantle so much to get the distributor 
off.
i definately have no spark on 1,2,3  and great spark on 4,5,6.

i have now had 3 mechanics look at the car, they have all said its 
not possible to have only 3 sparking unless it had 2 distributors.(i 
have all new leads, (except coil to dis) yet all mechanics confirmed 
the problem after looking at the car.
Would it be possible for the coil to cause this? or....
someone said maybe the distributor is from a 4 cylinder car so...
the distributor has BOSCH 0 237 402 023 and TGRU6 (THE R IS POSSIBLY 
A P) is this the right part?  (looks right in photo from 
specialtauto. couldnt see part # though.
ROTOR ARM PART # BOSCH 123433  (THERE IS A CIRCLE WITH 2177 R5 IN IT)

ANYONE WHO HAS ANY IDEA WHY EVEN 1 LEAD/PLUG WOULDNT FIRE PLEASE 
HELP!

stupid things i have checked include;
is only half the engine earthed!
pulse coil tests 550
spark leads test 300 (approx)
cap is on correctly. could the cap "be bad"? there are no 
cracks/fractures/chips on it. all contacts are equally shiny.
coil is wired up correctly, but i havent replaced it since i bought 
the car. i dont remember the part # but it is bosch, black, and 
has "oil filled coil" stamped on the side.

if you wanted to make your engine do this, how could you?
could the aluminium block insulate somehow?


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Steve Stankiewicz 
<protodelorean_at_dml_y...> wrote:

>>
>> Hi Andy.  I too was surprised that the thing even runs
>> on 3 cylinders, but your removing all three plug wires
>> at once seems pretty conclusive.  Assuming that the
>> wires are on correctly, I'm wondering if you don't
>> have an "even-fire" distributor cap.  Here's how to
>> check:  the original cap for the Delorean was an
>> "odd-fire" one such that if you look straight down on
>> the top of the cap, it should look like three groups
>> of two towers, not 6 evenly spaced.  An even-fire cap
>> will be 6 evenly-spaced towers.  If you can't tell
>> with it installed, it might be easier to just swap the
>> old cap back on as a test.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Steve
>> 
>> VIN 2650 ("Project Delorean")
>> www.projectdelorean.com
>> 
>> 
>> 		
>> __________________________________ 
>> Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! 
>> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>>









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Message: 8
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 17:49:14 +0000
From: "robert parker" <roberthparker_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Special T Auto status

I chatted with John ~0930 today at the home/office. If I had known he had 
been ailing, I would have inquired as to his current health. We Nurses are 
like that, y'know.  He "sounded" not sick. (But then  I don't know what him 
sick sounds like).     I must say, he has been QUITE helpful with my part 
situation.  It is greatly appreciated.    FWIW, my 2cents.      Drive 
Stainless      Robert     VIN 6924


From: "jrc2905" <jrc2905_at_dml_aol.com>
Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Special T Auto status
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 03:53:16 -0000

First I want to say that I have had nothing but good experience with
Special T Auto. If John is unavailable for any reason I do not want to
be a bother.




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Message: 9
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 12:53:19 EST
From: DMCPROTO1_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Can we ALL come to a correct definition of these DeLorean terms?

CBL,
 
 Proto 2 that was sold at the BK auction in 1984 was that  preproduction car 
that looked like a production car but had the sliding windows  and that 2 
spoke steering wheel. We have the documentation and it is still  around somewhere. 
The Proto 2 car that looks like Proto 1 was sent to Lotus  for testing and 
development. It was found years later all smashed up in the back  of the Lotus 
testing facility.
Proto 1 has no VIN and I was surprised as well to know that it was sold to  
the public back then. But I'm glad they did  :-) 
 
Tony


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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Message: 10
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 20:22:06 -0000
From: "twinenginedmc12" <twinenginedmc12_at_dml_gendreaumicro.com>
Subject: Re: 911, engine running on 3 cylinders MORE INFO

Hello.

Sorry to hear about your wacky ignition.  It sounds like my bike. 
Here are some questions.  


Are you really sure the leads are plugged in?
Is the distributor cap installed slightly crooked? 
Is the rotor installed correctly? 
Can the distributor cap be moved around while installed?  (Don't 
electrocute yourself moving the distributor cap around with the car 
running) 

It sounds very much like the rotor is off center in the distributor 
cap, perhaps closer to one side (the side that fires) than the other 
side (the side that doesn't) or misaligned in some way that nobody 
can visualize, though it's hard to imagine how that could happen.

That's the most plausible explanation I can come up with for THREE 
adjacent leads (on the distributor cap) not firing.  If it were only 
1 lead, I'd think different.

How good is the ignition coil itself?  Ignition coils are cheap, so 
I'd buy a known good new one just to troubleshoot.  Perhaps there is 
a very slight off-centerness in the rotor/cap assembly that's just 
enough to deplete the spark energy from a weak coil, in a way that 
wouldn't happen with a strong coil.

It's not likely to be a grounding problem with the block.  It's tens 
of thousands of volts (unless your coil is bad).  Speaking of which, 
it's probably best not to run the car continuously for long periods 
until you sort this out.  The spark energy that's not making it to 
the plugs is probably being dissipated in the coil.

Good luck.  You'll get it.  It's pretty cool that it runs so well on 
half its cylinders.  Imagine how good it will run will all of them, 
though it's probably going to backfire really terrible on all that 
unburnt gas for a few revolutions.



Rick Gendreau.



>> ANYONE WHO HAS ANY IDEA WHY EVEN 1 LEAD/PLUG WOULDNT FIRE PLEASE 
>> HELP!
>> 
>> stupid things i have checked include;
>> is only half the engine earthed!
>> pulse coil tests 550
>> spark leads test 300 (approx)
>> cap is on correctly. could the cap "be bad"? there are no 
>> cracks/fractures/chips on it. all contacts are equally shiny.
>> coil is wired up correctly, but i havent replaced it since i bought 
>> the car. i dont remember the part # but it is bosch, black, and 
>> has "oil filled coil" stamped on the side.
>> 
>> if you wanted to make your engine do this, how could you?
>> could the aluminium block insulate somehow?
>> 
>> 
>> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Steve Stankiewicz 
>> <protodelorean_at_dml_y...> wrote:
>
>>> >
>>> > Hi Andy.  I too was surprised that the thing even runs
>>> > on 3 cylinders, but your removing all three plug wires
>>> > at once seems pretty conclusive.  Assuming that the
>>> > wires are on correctly, I'm wondering if you don't
>>> > have an "even-fire" distributor cap.  Here's how to
>>> > check:  the original cap for the Delorean was an
>>> > "odd-fire" one such that if you look straight down on
>>> > the top of the cap, it should look like three groups
>>> > of two towers, not 6 evenly spaced.  An even-fire cap
>>> > will be 6 evenly-spaced towers.  If you can't tell
>>> > with it installed, it might be easier to just swap the
>>> > old cap back on as a test.
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > Steve
>>> > 
>>> > VIN 2650 ("Project Delorean")
>>> > www.projectdelorean.com
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > 		
>>> > __________________________________ 
>>> > Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! 
>>> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>>> >
>
>>










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Message: 11
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 14:04:38 -0500
From: "Michael & Denise" <luckeys71_at_dml_cox.net>
Subject: Idle Still Stuck

I appreciate the responses to my post about my idle problems and wanted to update folks on my situation.  After taking the advice of unplugging the ECU the car idled at 2000RPM-would that be considered normal?  I checked the throttle cable and the quadrant link but wasn't 100% sure how this should fit.  I backed off of the tension to the throttle spool by turning the link and then reconnecting it-should there be any tension or is a loose fit necessary?  It still trips the microswitch and I didn't see where anything changed after the adjustment.  Once the car warms up the idle starts to creep even higher.  Dave had posted that perhaps there is a bad connection between the wiring from the idle speed motor and wherever that particular wiring harness leads to-has anyone had any experience with the wiring in this area?  The car is drivable but people at every stoplight think that I am gunning my engine wanting to race!
All suggestions appreciated,
Mike

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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Message: 12
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 18:58:24 +0000
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: 911, engine running on 3 cylinders MORE INFO

Andy - it's not the coil.  

The problem is the cap, rotor, or wires.  Try these things:

Test the wires by taking them one at a time from cylinders 1, 2 and 3
and hook them up to the plug closest to the distributor on the good 
side (I think it's #6) and star the car.  If the good cylinder still fires, 
the wire is ok.  Test each wire from the bad side.  

If all of the wires are good, replace the cap and rotor.  There is
nothing repairable about them, and as long as you have to take 
them off, you may as well remove doubt by replacing them.



--
Mike


-------------- Original message from "odell_andy" <odell_andy_at_dml_yahoo.co.uk>: -------------- 



>> thanks for your help guys. my car (or me) is Jinxed. 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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Message: 13
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 20:11:18 -0000
From: "John Macias" <jdm5_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: DMC in CNN Cartoon Clicks

Just above the center console must be a new placement for the FC!

http://www.cnn.com/POLITICS/analysis/toons/2005/11/18/mikula/index.html

http://tinyurl.com/8a9ak

John
#7009







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Message: 14
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 09:50:07 -0800
From: "Murray Fisher" <murrayfw_at_dml_charter.net>
Subject: Re: Can we ALL come to a correct definition of these DeLorean terms?

I have tried to keep quiet about the DeLorean prototype, but usually the 
moderator throws my inputs out anyway.....however I built the first one in 
about 1930 when I was 9 years old.  I even have pictures of it!  I purchased 
a Maytag one cylinder gas engine from a neighbor for a dollar...He could 
never make it run. I could not figure how to gear it to my bicycle direct, 
so decided it should be a REAR ENGINE type.  I built a wooden platform and 
mounted the motor on it with a couple V pulleys to transmit power to the one 
drive wheel.  I attached the platform to my rear fender with a pivot so it 
pushed me.  I think it was a stick shift, as once I finally got the motor 
running I set that side of the platform on a stick with a cord going up to 
my handlebars.....I would peddle like crazy and at the same time, jerk the 
stick out from under the platform which let the drive wheel hit the 
ground...It was geared too high so I had to control the speed somehow....it 
had just the usual two speeds....stop or flat out.  But you stopped it by 
shorting the spark plug to ground.....so I added a remote control for that 
on my other handlebar....when I was up to about 88mph I would hit ths switch 
and shut the engine down for a time.  However on second thought I suppose it 
could not be called THE Prototype, as it had no gull wings, Stainless Steel 
or air conditioning.  I guess I just did not think I needed those at the 
time.

Murray
Vin: 05962
Lic: DMC-XII 




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Message: 15
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 20:46:57 -0000
From: "dmcchaser" <dmcchaser_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: Re: 911, engine running on 3 cylinders MORE INFO

I have no idea what could be causing this  :(  , or how to 
intentionally cause it.  The block could not isolate the ground for 
only one bank.  The coil wouldn't cause only half the plugs to fire, 
consistently, all the time.

It could be that because the plug wires on the passenger's side are 
longer than the ones on the driver's side, so the resistance of the 
wires causes the spark to jump out somewhere else.  Possibly it is 
the coil, or rotor.  Try taking one of the wires from the side that 
works and put it on the distributor in place of one of the non-
working wires.  Does it work now?
How long of an arc can the coil throw?  Take one of your good wires 
with a plug in it and have an assistant crank the car while you 
slowly move the plug away from ground.  MAKE SURE YOU USE a grounded 
set of pliers for this or you WILL GET SHOCKED.  Take a jumper and 
run it from your pliers to the engine block.  This will give the 
electricity a place to go rather than through you.
You should get a spark at least 3/4" long.  If not something is too 
weak.
Let us know what you find.

Matt Smtih

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "odell_andy" <odell_andy_at_dml_y...> wrote:

>>
>> thanks for your help guys. my car (or me) is Jinxed.
>> i have the 3 groups of 2 distributor cap. it is really starting to 
>> annoy me that you have to dismantle so much to get the distributor 
>> off.
>> i definately have no spark on 1,2,3  and great spark on 4,5,6.
>> 
>> i have now had 3 mechanics look at the car, they have all said its 
>> not possible to have only 3 sparking unless it had 2 distributors.

(i 

>> have all new leads, (except coil to dis) yet all mechanics 

confirmed 

>> the problem after looking at the car.
>> Would it be possible for the coil to cause this? or....
>> someone said maybe the distributor is from a 4 cylinder car so...
>> the distributor has BOSCH 0 237 402 023 and TGRU6 (THE R IS 

POSSIBLY 

>> A P) is this the right part?  (looks right in photo from 
>> specialtauto. couldnt see part # though.
>> ROTOR ARM PART # BOSCH 123433  (THERE IS A CIRCLE WITH 2177 R5 IN 

IT)

>> 
>> ANYONE WHO HAS ANY IDEA WHY EVEN 1 LEAD/PLUG WOULDNT FIRE PLEASE 
>> HELP!
>> 
>> stupid things i have checked include;
>> is only half the engine earthed!
>> pulse coil tests 550
>> spark leads test 300 (approx)
>> cap is on correctly. could the cap "be bad"? there are no 
>> cracks/fractures/chips on it. all contacts are equally shiny.
>> coil is wired up correctly, but i havent replaced it since i bought 
>> the car. i dont remember the part # but it is bosch, black, and 
>> has "oil filled coil" stamped on the side.
>> 
>> if you wanted to make your engine do this, how could you?
>> could the aluminium block insulate somehow?









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