From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 7:29 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 3032

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Plastic and Metal Door Guides (was: Door Oddity?)
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_optonline.net>

2. Re: Las Vegas/ Arizona Owners
From: "Daniel F." <daniel_at_dml_ramblerman.com>

3. Re: Plastic and Metal Door Guides (was: Door Oddity?)
From: "Daniel F." <daniel_at_dml_ramblerman.com>

4. Re: Plastic and Metal Door Guides (cost and weight)
From: "James Espey" <james_at_dml_delorean.com>

5. Re: Trans problem-voilent shake
From: "stainlessilusion" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>

6. Re: Failed emmissions AGAIN
From: "Dan" <djdanwilson_at_dml_yahoo.com>

7. Re: Failed emmissions AGAIN
From: "Dan" <djdanwilson_at_dml_yahoo.com>

8. Re: Cores
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com

9. Re: Cores
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_optonline.net>

10. Re: Tamper proof plug?
From: "vin4258" <vin4258_at_dml_delorean.com>

11. RE: Re: Trans problem-violent shake
From: <rob_at_dml_pjgrady.com>

12. Re: Re: Failed emmissions AGAIN
From: "Tom Niemczewski" <tomciodmc_at_dml_poczta.onet.pl>

13. Re: Re: Failed emmissions AGAIN
From: <delornut_at_dml_peoplepc.com>

14. RE: Re: Eibach springs/shock set
From: <rob_at_dml_pjgrady.com>

15. Re: Re: Failed emmissions AGAIN
From: "Tom Niemczewski" <tomciodmc_at_dml_poczta.onet.pl>

16. Don't throw away alternators?
From: "alex morgan" <mauibarber_at_dml_hotmail.com>

17. Re: Re: Failed emmissions AGAIN
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net

18. bad cat
From: Tom Watkins <outatime81_at_dml_yahoo.com>

19. RE: Re: Water Pump Style
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>

20. Re: Failed emmissions AGAIN
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>

21. Re: Re: Water Pump Style
From: Martin Gutkowski <martin_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>

22. Re: Failed emmissions AGAIN
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_optonline.net>

23. Re: Failed emmissions AGAIN
From: "tuxr" <tuxdarby_at_dml_msn.com>

24. Re: Don't throw away alternators?
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_optonline.net>

25. Hervey Performance Air Breather with DMCH Free Flow Exhaust,
From: "patmolamphy" <patmolamphy_at_dml_yahoo.com>





Message: 1
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 03:23:06 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Plastic and Metal Door Guides (was: Door Oddity?)

My door guides are metal.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Marv Hein" <marvhein_at_dml_h...> wrote:
>
> You're 10757 and presumably a 12/81 car also?  Just out of curiosity, 
> metal or plastic?
> 
> Marv
> #10820
> 








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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 21:45:45 -0700
From: "Daniel F." <daniel_at_dml_ramblerman.com>
Subject: Re: Las Vegas/ Arizona Owners

Hey Stefan,

I know the AZ-D would be happy to meet up with you when you
are passing through Arizona AND Las Vegas. Email me directly
and we will definitely set up something. We look forward to hearing
from you...

Daniel
VIN 10920 (EFI)
http://www.az-d.org

~~~~~~~~~~~~
stefandmc wrote:

>Hey you DeLorean owners from Arizona and Las Vegas its me Stefan and I will be visiting Arizona near the end of December beginning of 
>January. I am interested in meeting any of you owners from this part 
>of the country. If anyone is interested in meeting you can email me or PM and we can arrange something. Dec. 28- Jan 1st I will be in Tuscon  Az. Jan 2nd -4th Las Vegas, 4th,5th and 6th, will be between the grand canyon, sedona and Pheonix. Thank you and hopefully we can arrange something. Stefan Diklich - Vin 10632
>  
>





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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 19:18:20 -0700
From: "Daniel F." <daniel_at_dml_ramblerman.com>
Subject: Re: Plastic and Metal Door Guides (was: Door Oddity?)

I find it hard to believe that I (or anyone else I have talked to) have
never heard of, or seen, the plastic door guides in the middle of the
1982 model year run (Dec. 81) before this. As Marv stated, I have
10920, and we also have 10246, 10365 and 10440 in AZ-D. None
of these have the plastic door guides.

Also, I was under the impression that the mounting holes in the door
were actually different for the plastic than they were for the metal
door guides. Wouldn't this mean that 10820's doors were replaced,
not just the guides??

Very Curious...

Daniel
VIN 10920
Arizona DeLorean Club
www.az-d.org

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Marv Hein wrote:

>You're 10757 and presumably a 12/81 car also?  Just out of curiosity, 
>metal or plastic?
>
>Marv
>#10820
>AZ-D
>
>--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_o...> 
>wrote:
>  
>
>>David Teitelbaum
>>vin 10757
>>    
>>





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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 03:02:40 -0000
From: "James Espey" <james_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Re: Plastic and Metal Door Guides (cost and weight)

The plastic ones certainly weigh less, and weight is always a factor.

The records here show a *cost* for the metal guides as $43.86 per set
of for, and the plastic guides at $6.34. Even at a hoped annual volume
of 10,000 cars per year, that's a savings of more than $375,000 - so
cost was undoubtedly a factor.

James Espey
DMC (Texas)
http://www.delorean.com 


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Marv Hein" <marvhein_at_dml_h...> wrote:
>
> Yes, seeing as more showed up on the '83 cars.  Any idea why they 
> changed from the metal parts to plastic?  Was it purely a cost issue?
> 
> Marv
> #10820










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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 04:40:13 -0000
From: "stainlessilusion" <5n-_at_dml_gmx.net>
Subject: Re: Trans problem-voilent shake

It's not the clutch, and there are ways to check/verify this (first
would be visually which-it looks fine)-if you sit with the brakes on
and the car in first-while you release the clutch slowly-the clutch
engages normally, not higher/lower and again this doesn't happen in
reverse, or any other gear-if it was a bad clutch, it would slip in
reverse as well as second. Plus, it grabs normally when downshifting,
unlike worn clutches that will slip.The clutch was replaced months ago
(July? August?) and been driving daily with no problems so it's not
like i just did the clutch and it just started happening. And, it's
also not engine related-the engine has been running fine and has no
idle/running issues (even when i had issues it never did this). This
is why I am thinking internal. I will check the mounts tomorrow, but
the last time I had a cracked mount my drivetrain never behaved like
this so I'm doubting that. It have hit a few ice patches where the
tires would slip and then suddenly grab-maybe this has something to do
with it. The thing to remember-it's ONLY first, if it was
engine/clutch it would happen in reverse too. With the clutch I did
the overhaul on the trans (new seals over the input shaft tube) so I
know all about the leaking gear oil-nope, not that either. As far as
load? Doesn't matter, even with the slightest RPMS on a flat surface
it will shake-how long depends on how fast the car gets moving-uphill
it will shake more violently and longer until it gets 5-10mph, flat
surface it will shake less and shorter-downhill-not an issue since
you're already moving. Yes, I can feel the shake if I rest my hand on
the shifter. Very much appreciative of all your suggestions! Hopefully
I can identify this and fix it without having to do much. -----dani B.
#5003







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Message: 6
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 07:31:19 -0000
From: "Dan" <djdanwilson_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Failed emmissions AGAIN

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Tom Niemczewski" <tomciodmc_at_dml_p...> wrote:
> 
> One of the reasons for your failed emissions might be the prolonged
use of 
> premium fuel. I am assuming that you mean 93 octane. Higher octane gas 
> causes deposits to form inside the cylinders and in the exhaust
system. That 
> in turn will over time cause the compression to be raised. With that
you 
> will get higher temperatures in the center of the cylinders along with 
> unburned gasoline close to the edges of the cylinders.

How come I've never heard of this? Granted, I'm not a mechanic nor an
engineer, but I'd think is this were true enough to cause problems
this knowledge would be more common than it is.


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Tom Niemczewski" <tomciodmc_at_dml_p...> wrote:
> 
> The DeLorean engine 
> was designed to use 87 octane gasoline and this is what you should use. 
> Using 93 will just cost you much more and will not do any good for
the car.
> Before you go to test the emissions again make sure to burn all of
the 93 
> you have in the tank and then fill it up with 87. Then go for an
hour long 
> drive at highway speeds. This should clean up a lot of the deposits
left 
> from using 93 octane fuel. From there go directly to the testing
station. 
> Try not to get stuck in traffic as idling for prolonged period of
time will 
> again cause deposits to start forming.
> I posted about the use of 93 gas in the past, but I guess it's a
good idea 
> to mention that again for new members on the list.


Yes, the DMC version of the PRV V6 is a low compression engine, so in
theory I can see why running 87 should not be a problem, but the 3.8
liter V6 engine in my '97 T-bird is a low compression engine too, and
if you run it on 87, like Ford suggests, on days over 80 degrees or
when climbing hills at any temp it detonates like mad. When you run 89
or 91 it does not. I know the PRV is a different engine than my Ford,
but who's to say it would not do the same out here in Phoenix where
it's never cold.

Okay, let's say we have an engine that has been run on higher octane
fuels than required, and it now has these "deposits" built up that
have raised it's compression as a result. Wouldn't suddenly running it
on lower octane cause, or run a higher risk of detonation since you're
now running low octane fuel in a higher compression engine?

Again, I'm not a mechanic, so my knowledge is limited, but I think I
would have heard of this somewhere. Can you point me to an obviously
legit source that will confirm this? I know some GM powertrain
engineers. Next time I see them I'm going to ask them about this.
'Till then I think I will just keep on running my Chevron 91.

Dan W.
VIN 16192
AZ-D








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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 09:20:25 -0000
From: "Dan" <djdanwilson_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Failed emmissions AGAIN

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Tom Niemczewski" <tomciodmc_at_dml_p...> wrote:
> 
> One of the reasons for your failed emissions might be the prolonged
use of 
> premium fuel.

Tom, here's another good question for you, or for anyone else that can
address it:

The DeLorean was manufactured to be sold in the United States with the
exception of the 100 or so cars in the 17000 VIN series which were for
Canada, right? The car was not technically for sale in Europe. That
being the case then why would American cars intended and destined for
sale in the U.S. market come with Owner's Handbooks that reference the
European 91 octane rather than the U.S. 91 octane?

If the 91 octane referenced in the DeLorean Owner's Handbook was the
European 91, and not the U.S. 91, wouldn't your average US buyer read
"91 octane unleaded only" and naturally assume it's telling them to
use the 91 in every pump at every U.S. gas station they would most
likely ever encounter, causing them to always inadvertently put too
high of an octane in their cars and, according to you, eventually lead
to the problems you described? How would your average U.S. DeLorean
buyer back in '81 firstly know there is a difference between U.S. 91 &
European 91, and secondly, if they did know that, how would they know
that the Owner's Handbook was referring to the European 91 so that
they would know they should actually use U.S. 87? That does not make
any sense whatsoever.

DMC did some stupid stuff, but referencing the wrong standard in an
American car's handbook that would cause owners in the primary market
to unknowingly use the wrong octane, eventually causing deposit
buildup that would result in emission problems seems too absurd to be
true.

I think the Owner's Handbook is referring to, and therefore
recommending U.S. 91 to be used in the DeLorean because I don't
believe using slightly higher octane than needed based on the engine's
compression ratio will hurt anything, unlike using lower octane in a
high compression engine will damage it.

Hey, I'm a noob, so if I'm wrong, educate me with bulletproof sources.

Dan W.
VIN 16192
AZ-D







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Message: 8
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 23:28:19 EST
From: kKoncelik_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Cores

don't
forget Dashes and Binacles
 
In any condition
 
Ken




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 9
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 03:45:30 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Cores

Some other things that should not be thrown away or left at the place
where you have the car serviced:
Mixture unit and Fuel distributer
Control Pressure Regulator
Turn signal switch
Idle motor ECU
Ignition ECU
Lambda ECU
Starter
Rotors (there may still be enough to have them cut)
Brake booster
Any transmission parts, manual or automatic
Automatic shift computer
Damaged body panels
Alternator
Steering rack
Even if it is not economical now to repair or rebuild some of these
parts, in the future not only may it be cheaper, it will be the ONLY
way to get going again! For instance it might be cheaper now to
replace a particular body panel because it would take so many hours of
labor at so many $ per hour to repair verses replace. As panels become
scarcer and more expensive at some pont in time it will be economical
to repair  what is considered unrepairable now. If you were to have an
accident and had a panel replaced you should get and keep the damaged
panel, it could be worth something in the future. Even if a part is
not repairable many times there are pieces from it that can be reused
to fix others, for instance a turn signal switch or a blown up
transmission.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757


-- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_s...> wrote:
>
> Group,
> Never throw anything away on the Delorean if you think it may have 
> any core value. If you don't know then call me and I will let you 
> know. Here is a list of a few things that I keep for leaner times to 
> rebuild and recycle if the factories quit making them. 
>








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Message: 10
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 07:29:25 -0000
From: "vin4258" <vin4258_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Re: Tamper proof plug?

As I learned just weeks ago from a post here, the hole I think you 
are seeing is exactly what I see on mine and seems to be normal 
(plugged of course).  Between the air cleaner assembly and the fuel 
injector hoses at the fuel distributor is a tiny raised ring-looking 
thing with a hole in the center.  This looks like a screw or 
something should go there, but what you really need to do to adjust 
your mixture is get a 3mm allen wrench that is at least 100mm long 
and pop it down in there.  I am not sure of the specifics but I 
turned mine counter-clockwise about .25-.5 full turn to get my 
emissions to pass.  This was after I did a complete tune up which 
did not help the emissions results at all.  See all posts related to 
idle mixture adjustment screw within the past 2-3 weeks to get some 
great pictures from other members.








--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Tom Tait" <TTait_at_dml_B...> wrote:
>
> I need to get my tamper proof plug opening clear so I can try to 
correct
> a mixture problem.  I'm not sure what the factory plug looks like, 
but I
> don't think that is what I have.  It looks like there are threads 
going
> down the inside of the hole, then a metallic mass - maybe the 
remnants
> of a screw and the head has been stripped out or maybe JB Weld or
> similar - its hard to tell especially when I don't know what 
either the
> virgin hole or the original plug look like.
> 
> I'm about to get some duct tape sticky side up under the hole, get 
the
> shopvac running next to the hole, and just drill it out.  If this 
is a
> bad idea somebody stop me.
> 
> Does anyone have a close-up photo of the hole with and without the
> factory plug installed?
> 
> When all is done can I carefully seal it up with some ultra copper
> silicon?
> 
> Tom
> #10902
>








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Message: 11
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:01:33 -0500
From: <rob_at_dml_pjgrady.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Trans problem-violent shake

Mike,

I agree with your assessment that it's probably the clutch. Chattering is
common if the flywheel was not ground to match the new disc. Rebuilt discs
sometimes chatter as well. Dani did you replace the pressure plate and did
you use a new or reconditioned disc?

Rob Grady,

P.J.Grady Inc.

-----Original Message-----
From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 8:18 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DML] Re: Trans problem-voilent shake

I think it's the clutch.  Even though it was replaced lately, it sounds like
a classic case of clutch chatter.  If the car didn't behave like this before
the clutch was done, and it does after, you have to go with what was 
changed most recently as a starting point.  

--
Mike


-------------- Original message from "David Teitelbaum"
<jtrealty_at_dml_optonline.net>: -------------- 


> If it shakes that bad my guess is the engine is not running correctly 
> at idle so when you start out you have no power unless you rev it up 
> and slip the clutch. The clutch itself and the transmission would not 
> cause the shake. Maybe the brakes are dragging or the e-brake drags, 
> that would make it hard for the motor to get the car moving! Put it in 
> neutral and see if you can roll the car on a flat, level driveway. If 
> nothing is dragging you have to go over the motor and find out why it 
> doesn't have enough power. Start with the mechanical and vacuum 
> advance and the base timing. Make sure both advance mechanisms are 
> working and the base timing is right. 
> David Teitelbaum 
> vin 10757 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "stainlessilusion" <5n-_at_dml_g...> wrote: 
> > 
> > Hey guys, it's been a long time since I've posted here. I haven't 
> > really had the time (5 years to go in the Army). Anyway, my car shakes 
> > violently when starting from a dead stop in first gear until about 5- 
> > 10 mph. This doesn't happen in any other gear including reverse and 
> > the clutch was replaced recently. So, it's obviously internal-anyone 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address: 
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com 
> 
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see
www.dmcnews.com 
> 
> To search the archives or view files, log in at 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
> Yahoo! Groups Links 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
Yahoo! Groups Links



 



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Message: 12
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 16:25:24 +0100
From: "Tom Niemczewski" <tomciodmc_at_dml_poczta.onet.pl>
Subject: Re: Re: Failed emmissions AGAIN

Hello Dan

That is a very good question. And the answer to that would be that whoever 
wrote the Owner's Handbook must have made a mistake or just forgot to 
mention that in YOUR book. I say "your" book because mine clearly states 
that in the USA 87 should be used and that 91 was for Europe. Maybe I have a 
later version of the book that was updated.
Anyway, in the Owner's Book that I have there is a mention of that on page 
40. Right on top, on the right side of the page. Here's an EXACT copy of 
that:

Fuel Requirements
USA
Your De Lorean is designed to operate at factory specifications at UNLEADED 
GASOLINE only of at least 87 anti-knock index (R+M/2) (91 research octane 
number)

Is this a bulletproof enough source? :)

Of course you might say that "at least" means that it can operate on 93. And 
you will be right. It CANNOT use anything less that 87 because it will cause 
damage. Anything more that 87 CAN be used. 93 CAN be used without causing 
immediate damage to the engine but it is a great waste of money and if the 
engine is designed to operate on 87 then 93 is not as good for it. The 
higher the octane number the less chance for detonation but at the same time 
combustion temperatures are higher.
Use 87! Your car will be much better with it in the long run.
And the most important thing - 93 IS NOT BETTER than 87. It is just 
DIFFERENT! The names "premium" or "super" are just clever marketing by the 
oil companies to make the customers feel that they are getting something 
better that is worth the higher price. In reality they are just the same but 
meant for different engines. The car I have here in Europe runs on 95 (RON) 
about 91 (R+M/2). It was designed for that gas. DeLorean was designed for 91 
(RON) which is 87 (R+M/2)

I hope this clears things up for you a bit. And don't forget to check page 
40 in the Manual.


Tom Niemczewski
vin 6149 (in Poland!)
tomciodmc_at_dml_poczta.onet.pl
www.deloreana.com



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan" <djdanwilson_at_dml_yahoo.com>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 10:20 AM
Subject: [DML] Re: Failed emmissions AGAIN


> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Tom Niemczewski" <tomciodmc_at_dml_p...> wrote:
>>
>> One of the reasons for your failed emissions might be the prolonged
> use of
>> premium fuel.
>
> Tom, here's another good question for you, or for anyone else that can
> address it:
>
> The DeLorean was manufactured to be sold in the United States with the
> exception of the 100 or so cars in the 17000 VIN series which were for
> Canada, right? The car was not technically for sale in Europe. That
> being the case then why would American cars intended and destined for
> sale in the U.S. market come with Owner's Handbooks that reference the
> European 91 octane rather than the U.S. 91 octane?
>
> If the 91 octane referenced in the DeLorean Owner's Handbook was the
> European 91, and not the U.S. 91, 





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Message: 13
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:36:01 -0600
From: <delornut_at_dml_peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Failed emmissions AGAIN

I think, aside from combustion chamber carbon deposits,  is the fact that 
high test premium gas is formulated to burn more slowly to prevent 
detonation in high compression engines. Regular gas burns faster and if all 
else is right with the engine and the emission numbers are ALMOST correct 
then using regular could possibly make the differance in passing emisssions. 
It's certainly a quick and easy thing to try and doesn't cost anything as 
compaired to throwing parts at your engine.

Bruce Benson

> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Tom Niemczewski" <tomciodmc_at_dml_p...> wrote:
>>
>> One of the reasons for your failed emissions might be the prolonged
> use of
>> premium fuel. I am assuming that you mean 93 octane. Higher octane gas
>> causes deposits to form inside the cylinders and in the exhaust
> system. That
>> in turn will over time cause the compression to be raised. With that
> you
>> will get higher temperatures in the center of the cylinders along with
>> unburned gasoline close to the edges of the cylinders.
>
> How come I've never heard of this? Granted, I'm not a mechanic nor an
> engineer, but I'd think is this were true enough to cause problems
> this knowledge would be more common than it is.






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Message: 14
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:27:13 -0500
From: <rob_at_dml_pjgrady.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Eibach springs/shock set

Jon,

There are many variables that can cause an uneven ride height in DeLoreans
as well as many other cars. Suspension wear or damage is the most obvious
cause but in our cars even subtler things like front fender shim heights can
have an effect. If the side to side variance is less than 3/4" I wouldn't go
crazy chasing it unless the cause is apparent.

Different cars respond differently height-wise to suspension upgrades as
Kayo pointed out and the cause can be very elusive to track down. I suggest
some of you owners measure your ride heights, stock or lowered, and you'll
probably find surprising differences.

Rob Grady,

P.J.Grady Inc.

-----Original Message-----
From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
doki_pen
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 8:10 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DML] Re: Eibach springs/shock set

I'm concerned with the sides being different heights, I definitely don't
want that kind of situation going on, I don't think that's too much to ask
for.
 
Jon
#3215

----- Original Message ----
From: . . <klo_at_dml_cidio.net>
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 1:06:14 AM
Subject: Re: [DML] Re: Eibach springs/shock set


FWIW.... I had the front and rear shocks as well as the front springs of PJ
Grady in my DeLorean for many years and with over 80,000 miles or more.
This 
combination handled and rode well and they were ready for replacement.

Recently, I had heard so much as how great the DMCH springs and shocks
combination was.  I wanted to see for myself if there was a difference of
the 
DMCH's system versus PJ Grady's system so I had the DMCH complete package of
front and rear springs and shocks installed two months ago by PJ Grady.

My findings to my DeLorean, is that after the DMCH system was installed, the
rear sat way too low and cause the two rear wheels off to be off camber.
The 
rear wheels was doing a split and causing a slight premature wear to the
inner tire.  This situation also causes the rear end to “sinks” under hard 
acceleration.   I believe that this is where upper or lower adjusting
control arms are necessary to help correct the camber condition. The other
situation was 
that the DMCH front springs are lower then the front "sagging" springs of PJ
Grady's that they had replaced and with the passenger's side about a 1/2"
lower 
then the driver's side.  With all of these conditions, the standing height
was not visually right or physical correct, although the DMCH system is
correctly 
installed.  The DMCH's system ride was also a big disappointment.  Handling
was not very good on turns at higher speeds for the rear was sliding out on 
tight turns causing sway and the ride was generally bumpy and hard.  I
couldn't believe that this is the ride what everyone is bragging about?

Two weeks ago I've taken my DeLorean back to PJ Grady to have the rear shock
adjusted to a higher setting with the rear driver's side adjusted a 1/4"
higher 
then the passenger's rear shock.   This adjustment had made a BIG difference
in the standing height and also correcting the condition of the camber, as
well 
as the ride and the handling ability of the DeLorean -- Offering a total
major improvement in the ride.  Now, it "rides on rails" like everyone
claims.  So, the 
DMCH's front spring and shocks are excelling in handling and offers a "good"
general ride.   

IMO, the PJ Grady's front spring and shocks offers a more comfortable ride
although a bit short in handing as compare to the DMCH's system, but this
can 
be due to the original OEM rear springs which prompts the rear to be higher
then the DMCH's rear springs.  

As of now, the DMCH's system front springs in my DeLorean are not
symmetrical in height as they should be with the passenger's side being
lower of 3/8" 
to 1/2".   I don't know the reason for the differences, for maybe the
springs have a different compression rate or the well housings maybe
different in 
dimensions?  I do know that my frame has not been in an accident as to cause
the differences.  Rob said that he had installed several DMCH systems in 
other DeLoreans and have gotten better results for they were correct in
their standing heights.  Rob suggested that shims could be fitted to the
front 
springs of my DeLorean as to help raised the front and to help the ride.
Rob also suggested driving it for a while until they "settle in" and when he
gets the 
shims made up, the shims will be installed to correct these situations.

So, until the shims are added…. The ride of the DMCH is still worth the
money so far and they do feel like the “DeLorean is on rails.”   Personal, I
still like the 
ride to be softer and I believe that the shocks of PJ Grady may yield that
effect if fitted with the DMCH springs.  I won’t know until they are
installed in this 
combination in the future.

For reference, I have the standard OEM rims and the correct sizes of
Michelin Pilots tires for the front and rear.   Oh yes, on tires, I like the
Pirellis slightly 
better, for they are quieter.

Kayo Ong
#5508
Lic  9D NY


----- Original Message -----
From: "Christophe Vieira" <chris_delorean_at_dml_hotmail.com>
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 21:51:01 -0000
Subject: [DML] Re: Eibach springs/shock set

> Hello James,
> 
> I had the shocks from PJ Grady a long time before the Eibach springs
> were available, I did not want to replace them as they were still new
> when I received your springs, this is the only reason.
> 
> I put only 250 miles on them since I got them installed on my car. I
> hope I will get the same result shown on your photos. I did not think
> that the Grady's shocks are in cause because I believe they are
> designed to  work on lowered cars.
> 
> Even if the high is still not perfect, the handling is there and
> really there.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Chris.
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "James Espey" <james_at_dml_d...> wrote:
> >
> > Chris -
> > 
> > The photo you posted shows that something is not right on your car. I
> > question whether the problem is in the shocks or if it's not yet
> > settled in yet.
> > 
> > Here is a photo of our complete setup (Eibach springs and our brand of
> > shocks) after about 1,000 miles:
> > 
> > http://www.delorean.com/eibach.jpg
> > http://www.delorean.com/eibach2.jpg
> > 
> > This is what ALL of our installs look like after they settle in - I do
> > know that our system was designed to be installed as a unit - why did
> > you choose the Grady shocks?
> > 
> > James Espey
> > DMC (Texas)
> > http://www.delorean.com
> > 
> > --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Christophe Vieira"
> > <chris_delorean_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > > 
> > > I installed on my car DMCH Eibach spring and PJ Grady perfo shocks.
> > > I use to drive fast and handling is really great with this setup and
> > > yes, it could be better if ride was a little more firm. We do not use
> > > to drive "barge" in Europe. ;-)
> > > 
> > > The only "bad" point about Eibach spring is that the front is still a
> > > little too hight on my car.
> > > 
> > > You can see the result here :
> > > http://perso.wanadoo.fr/delorean/vin04271-640x480/vin04271-0482.jpg
> > 
> > (SNIP)
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
> 
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see
www.dmcnews.com
> 
> To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  





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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 15
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 16:35:43 +0100
From: "Tom Niemczewski" <tomciodmc_at_dml_poczta.onet.pl>
Subject: Re: Re: Failed emmissions AGAIN

Dan

One reason could be because oil companies don't really want you to know 
about it. Most people don't have a clue what "octane" is. People don't care. 
Hard to give a simple and definitive answer.
Anyway, why are there different grades of gas? Do you really believe that 
higher octane is somehow better? It is different, that's all. Because there 
are different cars out there with different engines and different grades are 
available for them. Not better, just different.

Tom Niemczewski
vin 6149 (in Poland!)
tomciodmc_at_dml_poczta.onet.pl
www.deloreana.com

----- Original Message ----- 
>> One of the reasons for your failed emissions might be the prolonged
> use of
>> premium fuel. I am assuming that you mean 93 octane. Higher octane gas
>> causes deposits to form inside the cylinders and in the exhaust
> system. That
>> in turn will over time cause the compression to be raised. With that
> you
>> will get higher temperatures in the center of the cylinders along with
>> unburned gasoline close to the edges of the cylinders.
>
> How come I've never heard of this? Granted, I'm not a mechanic nor an
> engineer, but I'd think is this were true enough to cause problems
> this knowledge would be more common than it is.





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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 16
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 18:25:52 +0000
From: "alex morgan" <mauibarber_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: Don't throw away alternators?


Hey David,
I am curious why throwing out the old alternator is bad? John Hervey has 
like three or four different models available brand new.  I am asking 
because i threw my crappy one out.
-Alex







________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 17
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 19:36:03 +0000
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: Re: Failed emmissions AGAIN

Right - just like there are different kinds of metals, different kinds of tires,
different kinds of glues, diffefent kinds of spark plugs - they are all different, 
that's all.

There is a reason to use higher octane gasoline, just like there is a 
reason to use lower octane gasoline.  Cars that run higher inlet
pressures and higher inlet temperatures need higher octane gas - period.
The DeLorean is not one of these cars.

Higher octane gasoline is harder to ignite than low octane.  That is
what octane measures.  The reason you might want gasoline that is 
harder to burn is because you want the gasoline to burn at a specific 
time - when the spark plug fires - not when the piston is halfway 
through the compression stroke.  Detonation at this time (known as
knocking, pinging or pinking across the pond) damages piston crowns, 
rings, wrist pins, connecting rods and bearing journals.

Using a higher octane than recommended for the application not only
costs more at the pump, but it will usually lead to poorer ignition
characteristics, which means the fuel will not burn as completely
or as efficiently as it should.  This means less power and higher
emissions.  

--
Mike


-------------- Original message from "Tom Niemczewski" <tomciodmc_at_dml_poczta.onet.pl>: -------------- 


> Dan 
> 
> One reason could be because oil companies don't really want you to know 
> about it. Most people don't have a clue what "octane" is. People don't care. 
> Hard to give a simple and definitive answer. 
> Anyway, why are there different grades of gas? Do you really believe that 
> higher octane is somehow better? It is different, that's all. Because there 
> are different cars out there with different engines and different grades are 
> available for them. Not better, just different. 
> 
> Tom Niemczewski 
> vin 6149 (in Poland!) 
> tomciodmc_at_dml_poczta.onet.pl 
> www.deloreana.com 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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Message: 18
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 13:45:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Watkins <outatime81_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: bad cat

When I bought my car it was discovered that the
converter is hollow.   I wonder is there any
performance difference if your converter is hollow? 
Any downside other than environmental?

Not that I am advocating converter tampering......my
car was purchased that way.  I wouldn't even know how
to hollow one out.  Can a converter fail and break
apart inside and "hollow" out and not know it?  

We do not have any smog type checks here in Maine so
it doesn't effect my registration or inspection as it
appears to be "normal".

I have it on my list of things to do at some point but
for the last 7 years I've had no issues.  

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 




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Message: 19
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 14:48:18 -0600
From: "John Hervey" <john_at_dml_specialtauto.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Water Pump Style

Group, Out of the 100's of pumps sold, I have had 2 press on pump pulleys
come loose and we replace them No charge. 
Since then we changed the internal dimensions ( no longer factory ) or ID
where the pulley meets the shaft and they are much tougher to press on and I
don't feel they will ever come loose. 
We also have the bolt on pulley with stainless steel hardware which is also
a lifetime warranty. 
As far as warranty on pumps. We normally give a 5 year warranty and have had
only one pump come back that leaked but we will evaluate any situation that
may arise. It's not that big a deal. 
Be assured that we do our best to always take care of the customer on the
parts we sell even if there has been some neglect but any vendor would
expect the customer to take care of the parts in the car by prudent
servicing and care.
John Hervey
www.specialtauto.com

       

-----Original Message-----
From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Toby Peterson
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 1:41 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Re: Water Pump Style

Dave - I am obviously a little bit biased regarding this topic, but 
I'll have a go at it.  The press-on pulleys rely on interference fit 
between the pulley and the water pump shaft to stay in position, and 
transmit the torque from the pulley into the pump.  If the fit is just 
a little loose (by just a few ten thousandth's of an inch), the pulley 
can drift fore and aft on the shaft (affecting belt alignment), or slip 
on the shaft (affecting pump performance).  Either of these scenarios, 
if left unattended, will result in wear on the shaft and eventual 
failure of the pump.  This sensitivity of the fit between the parts is 
the main problem with the pressed-on pulley arrangement.  Again, this 
is all my opinion.  The bolt-on pulleys do not have this requirement 
for an interference fit.  The torque is transmitted in shear through 
the four attachment bolts, which is a very efficient way to transmit 
torque.  Our bolt-on pulleys happen to also be works of automotive art 
(a glistening jewel in the engine compartment).  Our waterpumps (with 
the bolt-on pulley) come with a lifetime warranty. 

Toby Peterson  VIN 2248 "Winged1"
DeLorean Parts Northwest, LLC
www.delorean-parts.com


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "usndmc" <usndmc_at_dml_g...> wrote:
>
> Group,
> 
> I am going to get a new water pump soon, and I am curious as to 
> advantages/disadvantages of the 4-bolt on pulley style and the 
> original press-on pulley style. Is there anything besides ease of 
> removal of the pulley? Just looking for a little enlightenment as to 
> the differences. Thanks everyone, happy holidays!
> 
> Dave
> #5968
>









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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 20
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:14:53 -0000
From: "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: Re: Failed emmissions AGAIN

There are differences - that's true but, it is a remote possibility 
that fuel octane is the reason the engine is failing emissions tests. 
I've run premium for years and mine tested in July 2005 as clean as 
most late model cars with 60,000 miles and the original converter.

Harold McElraft - 3354

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, mike.griese_at_dml_w... wrote:
>
> Right - just like there are different kinds of metals, different 
kinds of tires,
> different kinds of glues, diffefent kinds of spark plugs - they are 
all different, 
> that's all.
> 
> There is a reason to use higher octane gasoline, just like there is 
a 
> reason to use lower octane gasoline.  Cars that run higher inlet









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Message: 21
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 23:10:23 +0000
From: Martin Gutkowski <martin_at_dml_delorean.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Re: Water Pump Style

This is probably nothing to do with the pump. I had one original pump 
that took over 10 tonnes to crack the pulley off and it just slid onto 
the new (OEM) pump with no force at all. I fitted a spare aluminium 
repro I had (for my project car) and sent my customer to John to buy me 
a replacement. I'd suspect the shaft on the original pump, not the new one.

Martin
DMC Ltd

John Hervey wrote:

>Group, Out of the 100's of pumps sold, I have had 2 press on pump pulleys
>come loose and we replace them No charge. 
>






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 22
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 23:04:36 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Failed emmissions AGAIN

I agree that the "wrong" octane should not fail you. Theoretically the
higher octane either won't improve the combustion or might even make
the car run worse. In reality (as far as I can tell) the only
difference, besides the obvious price differential, when I use a
higher octane than the car manufacturer recomends the motor seems to
run cooler and I get slightly better mileage. These effects are not
enough to justify the higher price. Using lower octane than
recommended can have serious effects over a long time. I suspect not
as much as in the past because most cars have knock sensors so if the
octane is too low the performance will just be degraded. More
important than octane is leaded vs unleaded. Using leaded gas (if you
can still find it) is a BIG no-no. It will quickly contaminate the
catalytic convertor.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Harold McElraft" <hmcelraft_at_dml_a...> wrote:
>
> There are differences - that's true but, it is a remote possibility 
> that fuel octane is the reason the engine is failing emissions tests. 
> I've run premium for years and mine tested in July 2005 as clean as 
> 








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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 23
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:25:08 -0000
From: "tuxr" <tuxdarby_at_dml_msn.com>
Subject: Re: Failed emmissions AGAIN

Thanks very much for the info on this, I've been using 93 for this 
car and my previous, will switch to 87 tomorrow.  Since I put 650 
miles a week going back and forth to work, this is a real cost 
savings.  The forum is great for stuff like this to those of us that 
aren't very mechanically inclined.  But I had what might be a stupid 
question: What do you mean by "less chance for detonation"???

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Tom Niemczewski" <tomciodmc_at_dml_p...> 
wrote:
>
> Hello Dan
> 
> That is a very good question. And the answer to that would be that 
whoever 
> wrote the Owner's Handbook must have made a mistake or just forgot 
to 
> mention that in YOUR book. I say "your" book because mine clearly 
states 
> that in the USA 87 should be used and that 91 was for Europe. 
Maybe I have a 
> later version of the book that was updated.
> Anyway, in the Owner's Book that I have there is a mention of that 
on page 
> 40. Right on top, on the right side of the page. Here's an EXACT 
copy of 
> that:
> 
> Fuel Requirements
> USA
> Your De Lorean is designed to operate at factory specifications at 
UNLEADED 
> GASOLINE only of at least 87 anti-knock index (R+M/2) (91 research 
octane 
> number)
> 
> Is this a bulletproof enough source? :)
> 
> Of course you might say that "at least" means that it can operate 
on 93. And 
> you will be right. It CANNOT use anything less that 87 because it 
will cause 
> damage. Anything more that 87 CAN be used. 93 CAN be used without 
causing 
> immediate damage to the engine but it is a great waste of money 
and if the 
> engine is designed to operate on 87 then 93 is not as good for it. 
The 
> higher the octane number the less chance for detonation but at the 
same time 
> combustion temperatures are higher.
> Use 87! Your car will be much better with it in the long run.
> And the most important thing - 93 IS NOT BETTER than 87. It is 
just 
> DIFFERENT! The names "premium" or "super" are just clever 
marketing by the 
> oil companies to make the customers feel that they are getting 
something 
> better that is worth the higher price. In reality they are just 
the same but 
> meant for different engines. The car I have here in Europe runs on 
95 (RON) 
> about 91 (R+M/2). It was designed for that gas. DeLorean was 
designed for 91 
> (RON) which is 87 (R+M/2)
> 
> I hope this clears things up for you a bit. And don't forget to 
check page 
> 40 in the Manual.
> 
> 
> Tom Niemczewski
> vin 6149 (in Poland!)
> tomciodmc_at_dml_p...
> www.deloreana.com
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dan" <djdanwilson_at_dml_y...>
> To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 10:20 AM
> Subject: [DML] Re: Failed emmissions AGAIN
> 
> 
> > --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Tom Niemczewski" 
<tomciodmc_at_dml_p...> wrote:
> >>
> >> One of the reasons for your failed emissions might be the 
prolonged
> > use of
> >> premium fuel.
> >
> > Tom, here's another good question for you, or for anyone else 
that can
> > address it:
> >
> > The DeLorean was manufactured to be sold in the United States 
with the
> > exception of the 100 or so cars in the 17000 VIN series which 
were for
> > Canada, right? The car was not technically for sale in Europe. 
That
> > being the case then why would American cars intended and 
destined for
> > sale in the U.S. market come with Owner's Handbooks that 
reference the
> > European 91 octane rather than the U.S. 91 octane?
> >
> > If the 91 octane referenced in the DeLorean Owner's Handbook was 
the
> > European 91, and not the U.S. 91,
>









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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 24
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 23:10:36 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Don't throw away alternators?

It is usually pretty easy and cheap to repair (rebuild) an alternator.
When they go bad not every part is garbage. Also there is the point
that you may want to keep your car bone-stock or concours perfect.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "alex morgan" <mauibarber_at_dml_h...> wrote:
>
> 
> Hey David,
> I am curious why throwing out the old alternator is bad? John Hervey
has 
> like three or four different models available brand new.  I am asking 
> because i threw my crappy one out.
> -Alex
>








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


Message: 25
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:56:42 -0000
From: "patmolamphy" <patmolamphy_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Hervey Performance Air Breather with DMCH Free Flow Exhaust,

has anyone tried this set-up.  Wanted to know it the breather was 
upgraded enough to allow more air flow.  Then, is the free flow 
exhaust unbearibly loud in the cabin?

Next question, any modifications needed for fuel mixture?  Lambda?

Pat 
#5252

PS, thanks to everyone on concerning the Eibach set up, will be on the 
car next week.  Can't wait.  My christmas present to my car.







________________________________________________________________________
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