From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 2:55 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 3039

There are 10 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Failed CA Emissions UPDATE (still bad)
From: "dmcchaser" <dmcchaser_at_dml_juno.com>

2. Re: Failed CA Emissions UPDATE (still bad)
From: "dmcchaser" <dmcchaser_at_dml_juno.com>

3. Re: Back to the Future 4!
From: "BTTF.com" <stephen_at_dml_bttf.com>

4. Re: Door Piston Lwr Support Brackets
From: "dmcchaser" <dmcchaser_at_dml_juno.com>

5. New 17076 Owner Says Hello
From: Parts Pit Mike <thepartspit_at_dml_rogers.com>

6. RE: Door Piston Lwr Support Brackets
From: "Rob Grady" <rob_at_dml_pjgrady.com>

7. RE: Question for owners with issues.
From: "Rob Grady" <rob_at_dml_pjgrady.com>

8. Re: Failed CA Emissions UPDATE (still bad)
From: David Cox <DMCox_at_dml_delorean.com>

9. My starting issues Re: Question for owners with issues.
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_optonline.net>

10. 1 Page John DeLorean article in "Time: The Year In Review"
From: "Patrick C." <PRC1216_at_dml_aol.com>





Message: 1
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 20:12:34 -0000
From: "dmcchaser" <dmcchaser_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: Re: Failed CA Emissions UPDATE (still bad)

It could cause you to fail, but I wouldn't expect to see high NOx readings from a colder-than-normal engine.  I would expect to see higher CO and HC readings, and lower O2.

Matt Smith


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "valleyrat12" <valleyrat12_at_dml_y...> wrote:
>
> I was just talking to John H. and I brought up the fact that there is 
> something wrong with my cooling fan circuit. The fans will not come on 
> with the traditional jumpers OR by shorting the otterstat wires. I 
> have found a way to get the fans to run although they will run 
> continually with or without the ignition on.  When I have gone to get 
> the car smogged I have activated the fans and let them run continually 
> so that the car would not overheat.  The temperature would stay below 
> the first line in this condition. (with the fans running constantly) 
> Could this cause my car to fail due to a cold engine?  Also I am going 
> to run some techron through my engine to remove carbon deposits if 
> they exist, couldn't hurt I guess.
> 
> I will be going to Garden Grove tomorrow. Hopefully this will be the 
> last smog test.
> 
> Nathan
> 2277
> 








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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 20:46:00 -0000
From: "dmcchaser" <dmcchaser_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: Re: Failed CA Emissions UPDATE (still bad)

Make sure to tell them all the info that you've told us here on the list, also bring copys of your test readings.  The more information they have the better and faster they'll get to the root of the problem.
My money's on a very slight lean condition. :) Good luck!

Matt Smith

> 
> I will be going to Garden Grove tomorrow. Hopefully this will be the 
> last smog test.
> 
> Nathan
> 2277
> 








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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 21:00:51 -0000
From: "BTTF.com" <stephen_at_dml_bttf.com>
Subject: Re: Back to the Future 4!

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "John Dore" <dmcjohn_at_dml_h...> wrote:
> Check it out...
> http://www.entertainmentwise.com/news?id=11905

Already debunked...

http://www.bttf.com/index.php?/weblog/more/latest_future_sequel_rumor_de
bunked/

Stephen Clark,
BTTF.com








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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 21:01:09 -0000
From: "dmcchaser" <dmcchaser_at_dml_juno.com>
Subject: Re: Door Piston Lwr Support Brackets

I also have this problem on my driver's door.  I also seem to be having problems searching the archives :(  This might be just my cluelessness though :) I need to find out how to install these re-enforcing plates.
Can I get a point in the right direction to search, maybe a keyword or something.  I've tried searching already and it just brings up this latest post.

Lost in cyberspace,
Matt Smith

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, <rob_at_dml_p...> wrote:
>
> Martin & Josh,
> 
> We carry heavy duty door piston lower stud brackets as follows.
> 
> 108653G Supt Brkt, Door Piston Lwr L/H....$19.50
> 108653G   "   "      "     "    "  R/H....$19.50
> 108655G Backing Plate, Dr Piston Supt.....$14.50 Each
> 
> These brackets are longer and stronger than stock and install with
four H.D.
> rivets instead of the original two. They work for cars whose
brackets are
> just starting to bend and can compensate for light fiberglass damage
only. 
> If the brackets are ripped out or the fiberglass mounting area is
heavily
> damaged it must be repaired which increases repair costs
significantly. That
> is why we encourage people to inspect for bending and replace them
before
> fiberglass damage is done. There is usually bending well before the 
> fiberglass mounting area is damaged so routine inspection is highly 
> advisable. We'd sell a lot more of these brackets if people checked
their
> supports before it was too late to upgrade and not also repair. They
are not
> easy to install so many chose to ignore the problem until damage
occurs. I
> discussed this before on the DML so you could always check the archives.
> 
> Rob Grady,
> 
> P.J.Grady Inc.
> 
> 








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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 16:41:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Parts Pit Mike <thepartspit_at_dml_rogers.com>
Subject: New 17076 Owner Says Hello

Hello All,
   
  Proud new owner of Canadian DMC 12  # 17076, now nicely nestled just east of Toronto. 
   
  Had the car out for a few runs before they salted the roads up here in November. Amazed how many people ask to take photos with their cell phones!!
   
  Looking forward to next spring like never before.
   
  "Parts Pit" Mike



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 16:54:55 -0500
From: "Rob Grady" <rob_at_dml_pjgrady.com>
Subject: RE: Door Piston Lwr Support Brackets

Matt,

I never wrote up an installation guide for the plates as it is not much harder than just R&Ring the originals if the fiberglass is good and drilling two more mounting holes. When we do the next set I'll try to find the time to take pictures and do a step by step procedure. In the past I only pointed out their availability as we're still the only vendor making them. I probably shouldn't mention that as it's one of my few fixes not already copied by some other vendor!

Rob Grady,

P.J.Grady Inc.

-----Original Message-----
From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dmcchaser
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 4:01 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DML] Door Piston Lwr Support Brackets

I also have this problem on my driver's door.  I also seem to be having problems searching the archives :(  This might be just my cluelessness though :) I need to find out how to install these re-enforcing plates.
Can I get a point in the right direction to search, maybe a keyword or something.  I've tried searching already and it just brings up this latest post.

Lost in cyberspace,
Matt Smith

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, <rob_at_dml_p...> wrote:
>
> Martin & Josh,
> 
> We carry heavy duty door piston lower stud brackets as follows.
> 
> 108653G Supt Brkt, Door Piston Lwr L/H....$19.50
> 108653G   "   "      "     "    "  R/H....$19.50
> 108655G Backing Plate, Dr Piston Supt.....$14.50 Each
> 
> These brackets are longer and stronger than stock and install with
four H.D.
> rivets instead of the original two. They work for cars whose
brackets are
> just starting to bend and can compensate for light fiberglass damage
only. 
> If the brackets are ripped out or the fiberglass mounting area is
heavily
> damaged it must be repaired which increases repair costs
significantly. That
> is why we encourage people to inspect for bending and replace them
before
> fiberglass damage is done. There is usually bending well before the 
> fiberglass mounting area is damaged so routine inspection is highly 
> advisable. We'd sell a lot more of these brackets if people checked
their
> supports before it was too late to upgrade and not also repair. They
are not
> easy to install so many chose to ignore the problem until damage
occurs. I
> discussed this before on the DML so you could always check the archives.
> 
> Rob Grady,
> 
> P.J.Grady Inc.
> 
> 








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For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 17:06:29 -0500
From: "Rob Grady" <rob_at_dml_pjgrady.com>
Subject: RE: Question for owners with issues.

Robert,

Just for the record I agree with you that hard start problems are not
"normal" on a Delorean or any other CIS equipped car. But after twenty five
years they're certainly common and are usually easily, but not always
cheaply, fixed. How many manufacturers build their cars intending them to
last that long that are still in business. Answer... none!

Rob Grady,

P.J.Grady Inc.

-----Original Message-----
From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
therealdmcvegas
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 12:00 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Question for owners with issues.

Let me start off by saying that I am not intending for this post to be
a flame. It's not an attack, just an honest question for people.

I've been pretty dormant on this, and other lists for a while now, but
I have been reading some of the topics that have recently been
discussed. Two in particular are regarding "valleyrat's" failed smog
test, and Scott's Hot-Start issue. And I honestly have to ask this:

Do any of you own a Workshop Manual?

Allot of questions that I'm seeing on here are uber-simple ones that
should already have been obvious with a workshop manual, and a little
automotive know how.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that everyone here
should be at the level of an ASE mechanic. After all, this is a forum
for DIY'ers seeking help. But if you're asking about an engine running
lean, and you've not yet hit it with a timing light, then let's take a
step back, and even ask how to do that, before tearing your exhaust
system apart to shine a light into the Catalytic Convertor.

Hot Start problems are NOT normal on the DeLorean, or any car that
uses a K-Jetronic fuel injection system. I've seen DeLoreans fire-up
in triple digit heat, and have only taken about a second-long turn of
the key to do so. For a beater Volvo that ends up on some
"Buy-Here/Pay-Here" car lot in the middle of the ghetto, yes, the
Hot-Start relay is needed, because it's assumed that people will NOT
properly maintain these cars in the long run. For a high-end car such
as the DeLorean, it's assumed that proper maintenance will negate the
installation of a band-aid remedy.

Now I know that sounds a bit harsh. And I wouldn't normally be so
frank in my words for someone who is still getting familiar with their
car. But 10 YEARS and you still have this issue?    Even if you're not
handy with a wrench, I can understand. But at the very least, be more
aggressive with your mechanic and demand that the issue you paid for
to be resolved, gets properly taken care of. Especially if you're
already armed with the knowlege of how the affected system(s) function.

Like I say, I've seen DeLoreans fire up in all sorts of weather, and
not have an issue. So this is NOT a "design flaw" with the DeLorean
car itself. If there is any flaw in this case, it's flawed diagnotic
procedure that's been performed on your car by both your mechanic, AND
by you (that "design flaw" statement is insulting to me, and other
owners who's cars operate properly). It's a machine, not a deity.
Money means nothing to it. So throwing cash at the car's issue(s) will
not appease the gremlins inside, and make the issue magicly go away.

You've got two potential issues: 1. Electrical, or 2. Fuel Pressure.
And if it is Fuel Pressure related (as it typicly is), you need to
perform the proper diagnotic procedure to determine it as such. THEN
determine what has to be replaced, and start the diagnosis procedure
over again if it's still not resolved.

I don't care if you buy *new* stuff from John Hervey, or 25 year old
*NOS* parts from DMCH. Age has nothing to do with the fact that some
parts may leave the factory defective. So just because it was replaced
once, doesn't mean that the new part is any better off than the
*defective* one you replaced. Assuming of course that proper
troubleshooting is what determined it to be bad in the first place.

You have 5 components of the Fuel Injection system that are
responsible for maintaining fuel pressure while the system is at rest.
Performing the reccomending system test will help you determine which,
if any, of these components are at fault.

Now I know that this post has sounded a bit mean, but believe me, it's
more of a "tough love" message here. My solution for you isn't to take
the car into a vendor to get the issue fixed. No, I think that it's
high time you hunker down, and bust a few knuckles fixing the issue
yourself. Unless someone doesn't have a cost-prohibative tool (ie.
alignment rack, exhaust gas analyser), or they lack valuable
experience in a particular area (ie. MVAC, or electronics repair) that
requires the use of a vendors services, there is no reason that people
shouldn't be working on their cars themselves. Even if you're tight on
workspace where you can tear the car apart, you need to at least be
able to partially diagnose the issue yourself, and talk it over with
your mechanic.

-Robert
vin 6585 "X"








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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 15:18:20 -0800 (PST)
From: David Cox <DMCox_at_dml_delorean.com>
Subject: Re: Failed CA Emissions UPDATE (still bad)

Joe O'Brian suggested waiting the few days for the car to be old enough to qualify for historical plates.  There's one little problem with that solution - quoting from the CA DMV form: "I certify that I understand these plates may only be placed on a motor vehicle manufactured in 1922 or prior, or manufactured with 16 or more cylinders before 1965.  I also certify that I understand that the vehicle for which these plates are issued MAY BE DRIVEN IN HISTORICAL EXHIBITIONS, PARADES, OR HISTORIC CLUB ACTIVITIES ONLY." (emphasis is mine)  My understanding is that they are pretty lenient about what constitutes a historical exhibitions (i.e. cruise nights count).  I don't know how happy they'd be to see these plates on a daily driver.  Also, the plates may not help with the smog test as exemptions are only granted for vehicles "1975 year model or older".  Originally, that was suppossed to have been a rolling date - cars 25 years or older, but during one of the budget crunches, som!
 ebody figured out that by keeping the 1975 date, the state continued to get additional revenue from the owners of those cars.  In fairness, some studies indicate that older cars tend to be the worst polluters, but I think that applies more to old junkers than collector cars.  Collector car owners apparently don't have a strong enough lobby to get this overturned.

Dave
vin 16367
San Diego, CA

_____________________________________________________________
Buy and sell stocks in NFL teams! Get paid dividends every time your team wins! Free limited-time trial at http://www.AllSportsMarket.com?affiliate=1860




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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 23:24:23 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_optonline.net>
Subject: My starting issues Re: Question for owners with issues.

What you are describing is not the classic hot start. You should go
over the cold start system to make sure it is functioning correctly
and the ignition ballast bypass relay. It might also help to hold the
gas pedal down when you start the car (look in the owner's manual). On
some cars they don't ever need it, and on some it seems to help. Make
sure that NOTHING is plugged into the plug behind the fuse panel for
the hot start relay. You can also try turning the ignition key on and
off a couple of times before cranking the motor. You *could* have a
problem with the RPM relay.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757




--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Dan" <djdanwilson_at_dml_y...> wrote:
>
> Here's my version of the "hot start" issue.
> 
> I usually only drive the car on Saturdays, to and from cruise-ins. S








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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 23:44:45 -0000
From: "Patrick C." <PRC1216_at_dml_aol.com>
Subject: 1 Page John DeLorean article in "Time: The Year In Review"

I picked this up at the store today and was surprised to find an
entire page devoted to John DeLorean in the "Milestones" section.  The
article isn't very favorable, but it isn't the worst JZD article I
have read either.  There is a very nice large picture of John sitting
on a D as well.  


Just a heads up for anyone who wants to buy one for their DeLorean
collection.  The price is $10.99 US and it says to display until 3/13/06.

Happy holidays,
-Patrick C.
1880







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