From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:20 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 3093

There are 16 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. RE: Three needles in a hay stack : finding tires. LON
From: Joe Palatinus <jpalatinus_at_dml_gmail.com>

2. Re: Ye Olde Door light/buzzer switch
From: "John Rydholm" <ebondefender_at_dml_yahoo.com>

3. Re: Rule of 20
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_optonline.net>

4. Re: Drive the dream?
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_optonline.net>

5. RE: Transmission Clearance
From: "Darkstar" <darkstarmedia_at_dml_comcast.net>

6. Aftermarket seat covers
From: "John Rydholm" <ebondefender_at_dml_yahoo.com>

7. Re: Rule of 20
From: "valleyrat12" <valleyrat12_at_dml_yahoo.com>

8. Re: Rule of 20
From: "Toby Peterson" <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>

9. Re: Re: Catalytic converters and California
From: Glenn <green95gst_at_dml_gmail.com>

10. Painting/protecting Valley of death
From: "Chris Williams" <chris_at_dml_cwilliams68.fsnet.co.uk>

11. Re: Catalytic converters and California
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net

12. Re: Transmission Clearance
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>

13. Re: Rule of 20 (now Rule of 25)
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>

14. Re: Drive the dream? Poster
From: "Dan" <djdanwilson_at_dml_yahoo.com>

15. An odd problem just cropped up.
From: "Brandon" <morpheus34711_at_dml_yahoo.com>

16. copper washer for oil sending unit
From: "birdwell77095" <birdwells_at_dml_usa.net>





Message: 1
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 22:11:15 -0500
From: Joe Palatinus <jpalatinus_at_dml_gmail.com>
Subject: RE: Three needles in a hay stack : finding tires. LON

Finding Tires can be very worrisome especially if you happen to have a flat.  I was driving from charleston SC to orlando on the friday of MLK weekend.  I was on Hwy 17 about 7 miles from I-95 and 13 miles from Beaufort south carolina (know where that is?  neither did I!), when I started feeling a thump on my driver's side.  I pulled in the grass as there is no shoulder and realized I in fact had a flat.  Luckily my cell phone worked in this area and I called AAA to bring a flatbead and take me to the nearest tire facility (16 miles away).  As I was waiting for the truck, I started calling every tire place listed in my GPS system and asking if they had 235 60 R 15s  I didn't care about the brand, I was in the middle of no where and I needed any tire.  1 place I called had 1 uniroyal, and no one else had this size, they closed at 5:30 and the truck came
to pick me up at 5:10.   The truck driver recognized that we were unlikely to
find this size tire any where else and began to book it, and we were going 85 mph in the flatbead with my D on board, it was a little scary. My plan was to buy their tire and take it to a place that was open late which (would have been a pain).  Fortunately one of the drivers dispatchers suggested TIRE kingdom, a new establishment in the area that happend to have 2 bf goodwrench tires and were open until 8.  So they dropped me off there and I had two new tires put on the rear at a cost of ~$230.
Some of the uninitiated my ask why I didn't put the spare on, I do keep the spare with the car and I would have used it if I had no cell signal, but I have had 2 flat tires in deloreans before and the spare always comes off the rim and ends up grinding on the road.  I would have done that to save my rim at the expense of the spare but that would have been a heck of a drive to the tire place.
Moral of the story is, check your tires, my tread looked alright and I only had ~20,000 miles on the rear goodyear eagles I replaced.  I wouldn't have tried to repair the tire unless it was the only option, but thats just me.

Joe P.
VIN 17167 6808





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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 05:40:30 -0000
From: "John Rydholm" <ebondefender_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Door light/buzzer switch

I've actually had those seals replaced when I first bought the car. 
I got them from DMC themselves if I remember. Hmm, I may try the glue idea. I thought that if the little rubber boot wasn't on the switch all the way, the door wouldn't close properly? Perhaps I just need some new screws (hopeful.) I do know that the doors close securely, because I once had a problem with the lock solenoids and had my gull wing pop open on the freeway. That was NOT cool. Then there was a time when it actually locked me in the car. Not fun either. Nah, no problem of me falling out while driving. :) I am able to jiggle the little contact and that's what makes my door light/cockpit lights flash. The irritating thing is, one mecahnic I took it too was supposed to completely restore my wiring harness, front and back. I guess he forgot the doors. On a fun side note, I just had a nice fishtail in the Michigan snow here, and I survived. 
So did my car. Ugh, ice is not a DeLorean's friend.
-John #10715

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_o...>
wrote:
>
> You may be in need of new door seals. If the old ones are cracked, 
> split, torn, or just flattened, they are shot. After replacing the 
> seals...<dot dot dot>







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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 04:58:02 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Rule of 20

You are absolutley correct. The "Rule of Twenty" is NOT a hard and fast calculation. Many factors affect it. Maybe you want to transport the car to DMCH and have them do the work. Maybe you want a local place to mess it up. Maybe you want to learn how to fix a car for the first time and it is going to be on a "cheap" Delorean. Maybe it's a non-runner and the engine and trans are junk. Maybe you want to use it as a daily driver as you try to make it reliable and get towed home once a week for a month. If any of this sounds familiar you probably spent a lot more than $20,000. The point of the "Rule of Twenty" is to try to convince a newbie that the cheapest car he can find is not going to cost the least. In the car hobby generally the more you can spend the less it will cost overall. Of course you CAN find bargains and you CAN find that $15,000 car that is really a $7,500 car. You NEED a knowledgeable person to help determine what the true value is of the car you intend to buy. Make it the "Rule of Twenty Five" if you want, it is the principle that is important.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



-- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "tuxr" <tuxdarby_at_dml_m...> wrote:
>
> Seems a hot topic these days, the real cost of the car.  Some still 
> use the Rule of 20:  add what you pay, plus repairs and refurbishment, 
> it will come to $20,000.  So if you pay $12,000, it will cost $8,000 
> on top of that.  If you pay $15,000, it will cost $5,000 on top of
>








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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 05:05:03 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Drive the dream?

Mnay people "buy" a car that is more than their yearly salary. What
they are really doing is LEASING it. Very different from buying a used
car outright for cash. A younger person will not be able to finace a
used car like a Delorean unless they can have "someone of worth"
cosign. A "cheap" one probably isn't a good, running, daily driver so
it is very bad to buy a car and make payments on a car that doesn't
run. You would also probably have a hard time convincing a bank to
loan on a non-runner anyway. Not only must you come up with the
"scratch" to get the car, you will need a large budget to pay cash for
the parts needed. None of the vendors take a payment plan on parts as
far as I know. Not a good way to get into the used car hobby.
Especially if you are not handy and can do many of the repairs yourself.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Ryan Wright <ryanpwright_at_dml_g...> wrote:
>
> On 1/23/06, Chris Murley <qumefox_at_dml_g...> wrote:
> > Saying someone can't afford a delorean just
> > 









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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 19:43:29 -0700
From: "Darkstar" <darkstarmedia_at_dml_comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Transmission Clearance

I will agree, if you can get the tranny jack... get it.  Lowering the tranny on to your chest is not really safe and makes you sore for a couple of weeks.  When jacking get one end up on the lowest setting then the other end.  Then work opposite sides lifting a few inches at a time.  Have some one keep an eye on the stands as you jack.

Darkstar

-----Original Message-----
From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
Of Ryan Wright
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 6:04 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DML] Transmission Clearance


Pat,

I bought a relatively cheap transmission jack from Harbor Freight
(here: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=39178).
It works great. You will need a tranny jack, don't do this with a
standard floor jack. Spend the $50 to $100 it takes for the proper
equipment.

Clearance - you need to get the car up pretty high. ~2 feet minimum.
The car must be up on both ends and be relatively level, so you can't
just jack the back up and get this job done. Putting a car onto 4 jack
stands is dangerous and most jack stand manufacturers specifically
tell you NOT to do this. So if you do it anyway, be very careful. Go
slow. Use large, overrated jack stands. Leave the jack under there,
too, for extra support. If you take one of the rear tires off that
will give you extra clearance to pull the transmission out from under
the car; throw the tire under the car for yet another added measure of
safety.

I didn't find this to be a terribly difficult job once I got the car
safely up high enough. I'd really rather do this with a lift, though,
and am hoping to buy one before I have to do any other major repairs.
The safety factor alone is worth the price.

BTW, I'm VIN 5447. We're almost brothers. ;-)

-Ryan

On 1/23/06, schab932000 <schab932000_at_dml_yahoo.com> wrote:
> I'm going to be replacing my clutch in the offseason... a job I'll
> being doing in my own garage, with the car up on jacks. Can
> anyone give me an idea of how much clearance I'll need from the
> garage floor to the bottom of the car to be able to fully remove the
> transmission. 1 Feet, 2 feet, 3 feet or more? I'm assuming a
> transmission jack is something that scoots on the floor and I'm
> not sure how high that is well, but I'll need to figure that in as
> well.


To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews 
Yahoo! Groups Links



 








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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 05:50:18 -0000
From: "John Rydholm" <ebondefender_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Aftermarket seat covers

I wondered if any of you had purchased aftermarket/third-party seat 
covers for your D's and if so, does one have to cut or modify them in 
any way? Say uh, for example, the lever for pivoting it gets in the 
way or something. I would LOVE the two-tone grey & black covers DMC 
has, but they are so expensive! I could buy myself a Dave Mustaine 
custom Megadeth guitar for $800. Or pay some bills. (grin.) Any 
thoughts? Do places like Napa, Costco, etc. sell covers that would fit?
-John
#10715







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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 06:14:50 -0000
From: "valleyrat12" <valleyrat12_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Rule of 20

As ar recent purchaser of a Delorean I can say this:

Purchased the car for $13,000
Tax:$1,072
Smog: $100 (failed twice) 
Parts so far:$400
Parts to make it completely reliable: $300(accumulator/coolant hoses)
Total: $14,872

I have done all the work myself so far and plan on it in the future. 
My car is currently perfectly drivable, I just don't like the look 
of those hoses and the hotstart/coldstart problem is more of an 
annoyance than anything. So, for me it is the rule of $15,000 give 
or take. Unless something goes drastically wrong with the car god 
forbid....

If I were to "restore" the car it would need a lot of cosmetic 
parts; new louvres, various interior parts, right rear quarter panel 
and a passenger front fender but these things do not affect the 
reliability of the car.  So, what is this "rule of twenty"? Are 
there really people that have had to put 8-10 thousand dollars into 
their cars before they could even drive them?? Or are we talking 
about cosmetic issues?

Confused...

Nathan
2277





--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "tuxr" <tuxdarby_at_dml_m...> wrote:
>
> Seems a hot topic these days, the real cost of the car.  Some 
still 
> use the Rule of 20:  add what you pay, plus repairs and 
refurbishment, 
> it will come to $20,000.  So if you pay $12,000, it will cost 
$8,000 
> on top of that.  If you pay $15,000, it will cost $5,000 on top of 
> that.  Based on everyone I know, have talked to, my personal 
> experience with two cars, and reading this and other online 
> discussions, I'd like to throw on the table that the rule of 20 no 
> longer applies.  Actually, any "rule" should really be two rules, 
one 
> for those who have the skills and capability to do the work 
> themselves, and one for those without those skills and have to get 
it 
> worked on at a shop.  Two entirely different cost structures.  
There 
> can't be only "one" rule.  My view is it should be the "Rule of 
> 22/27".  While your heart may want to stick to the Rule of 20, 
hard 
> economics must be recognized.  And it seems the downside 
(unexpected 
> higher costs) really outweigh the upside (coming in under budget).
>










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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 06:36:30 -0000
From: "Toby Peterson" <tobyp_at_dml_katewwdb.com>
Subject: Re: Rule of 20

"Tuxr" - you bring out a very good point.  I have owned Winged1 for 
nearly 18 years, and have done countless upgrades and repairs to 
her, including many things that required fabrication of custom 
parts.  Including the original purchase price, I really doubt that I 
have made it to $20K yet.  The reason is that I have done virtually 
all of the work myself (with a handful of exceptions).  We have 
other members in the local club (www.pndc.org) that have hired 
everything done by automotive shops.  I know one person who says 
that he has well over $40K into his car, and it still has quite a 
ways to go.  Most of that is, I am sure, the high cost of labor.  I 
saw one car hanging on a lift at a shop that had a quote of over 
$500 to replace the trailing arm bolts!  It was a 5-speed to boot.

Toby Peterson  VIN 2248 "Winged1"
DeLorean Parts Northwest, LLC
www.delorean-parts.com


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "tuxr" <tuxdarby_at_dml_m...> wrote:
>
> Seems a hot topic these days, the real cost of the car.    
Actually, any "rule" should really be two rules, one for those who 
have the skills and capability to do the work themselves, and one 
for those without those skills and have to get it worked on at a 
shop.  Two entirely different cost structures.  







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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 22:03:09 -0800
From: Glenn <green95gst_at_dml_gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Catalytic converters and California

Nathan is correct about our cars not having the OBD standard.  OBD  
was not adopted as a standard until 1988.  It is the OBD 2 standard  
that the cats are not legal for in california and that was not  
adopted as a standard until 1996.  Unless you have an OBD II car that  
monitors oxygen sensor both before and after the catalytic then the  
catalytic that Special T Auto or any other vendor sells will pass  
California smog for pre-OBD II cars.

As a side note for California smog, you cannot bye or sell a used  
catalytic converter, or tamper with any "Functioning" smog  
equipment.  This usually means, if the catalytic is not  
malfunctioning, then  you cannot just change it.

-Glenn
6265

On Jan 24, 2006, at 3:03 PM, valleyrat12 wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I am also in California and recently installed SpecuialT's CAT which
> has worked flawlessly; I passed in CA a couple of months ago. Someone
> will correct me if I am wrong but the Delorean is NOT equipped with a
> OBD system and thusly is not affected by this preclusion.
>
> Nathan
> 2277
>
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "sweitzel_2000" <sweitzel_at_dml_l...> wrote:
>>
>> So I was noticing that Special T auto is now offering an aftermarket
>> catalytic converter. Upon closer inspection, it seems to state the
>> this particular converter is not legal in California (ODB II
> compliant
>> in 49 states except California) I also see that DMC houston still
> sell
>> what I presume are OEM cats. Are these 50 state legal? Why are the
>> special T cats illegal in California? or are they? Wouldn't these
> cats
>> be made from the very latest technology? or am I totally wrong here?
>> What would be the appropriate direction for a DMC owner in Californa
>> to proceed presuming he/she needs to replace the Cat?
>>





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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 09:12:03 -0000
From: "Chris Williams" <chris_at_dml_cwilliams68.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: Painting/protecting Valley of death

Hi all,
Having removed all the inlet manifold to get down in the
valley to investigate an oil leak. I have cleaned all this area and
was wondering about protecting the valley. I seem to remember reading
a post (or several) about painting the ally to protect it from
corrosion. Basically what have people used, any one product better 
than another?. and has any one product been better than another. 
Should one put something in the valley to protect it like a chemical 
metal before painting over it?
Thanks for our help.

Chris
Vin#4584







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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 16:18:45 +0000
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: Catalytic converters and California

The DeLorean was manufactured to be 50-state compliant, which means that
any part meeting the original specification (like a new old stock cat) would be
legal in California.  My guess is that the converter on the Special T auto site
was not tested to the California Air Resources Board standards.  It's expensive
to do so and the makers may have decided that the extra expense was not 
worth the potential market.  

Which part you choose depends on how luck you feel.  If you think your local
testing facility wouldn't know an illegal cat from a hole in the ground, you can 
go with either part and hope that the new cat will perform at least as well as the 
NOS cat and you will pass your emissions test.  If there is any doubt, I would
go with the NOS part.

--
Mike


-------------- Original message from "sweitzel_2000" <sweitzel_at_dml_lffltd.com>: -------------- 


> So I was noticing that Special T auto is now offering an aftermarket 
> catalytic converter. Upon closer inspection, it seems to state the 
> this particular converter is not legal in California (ODB II compliant 
> in 49 states except California) I also see that DMC houston still sell 
> what I presume are OEM cats. Are these 50 state legal? Why are the 
> special T cats illegal in California? or are they? Wouldn't these cats 
> be made from the very latest technology? or am I totally wrong here? 
> What would be the appropriate direction for a DMC owner in Californa 
> to proceed presuming he/she needs to replace the Cat? 
> 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 14:53:52 -0000
From: "Dave Swingle" <swingle_at_dml_dmcnews.com>
Subject: Re: Transmission Clearance

The only one of the three plates around the bellhousing that is 
critical is the one that goes under the starter. It sets the gear depth 
spacing between the starter and the housing. The other two are water 
shields, a big deal when this trans is turned around in a front-drive 
car, not a big deal in the DMC. It's common practice to throw away the 
one that goes under the trans (just over the frame), but the other one 
normally gets put back on, often with only one screw but with the wire 
removed. The wire is an inductive pickup that goes to the diagnostic 
connector but isn't used anywhere. 

Dave S


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Darkstar" <darkstarmedia_at_dml_c...> wrote:
>
> I did it in the garage on 4 3 ton jack stands all the way up... 
mostly by my
> self. 

  I ended up destroying both
> plates and most of the bolts but have had no adverse issued due to 
their
> absence.
> 
> Darkstar









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Message: 13
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 19:09:59 -0000
From: "d_rex_2002" <rich_at_dml_outernet-tech.net>
Subject: Re: Rule of 20 (now Rule of 25)

I think its probably time to change this to the Rule of 25.

The Rule of 20 has been around for several years, so with the
DeLorean 25th Anniversary this year, I think most of us could
remember making a change to the Rule of 25 (as a low average)
to adjust for economics and some new standardized labor rates.

Of course, those who perform most of the labor themselves may
complete cars at significantly lower total cost, there will be
those who will also have the work done for them or go beyond a
refurbishing project, to a complete restore, costing much more.

Later,
Rich W.
 

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "tuxr" <tuxdarby_at_dml_m...> wrote:
>
> Seems a hot topic these days, the real cost of the car.  Some 
still 
> use the Rule of 20:  add what you pay, plus repairs and 
refurbishment, 
> it will come to $20,000.  So if you pay $12,000, it will cost 
$8,000 
> on top of that.  If you pay $15,000, it will cost $5,000 on top of 
> that.  Based on everyone I know, have talked to, my personal 
> experience with two cars, and reading this and other online 
> discussions, I'd like to throw on the table that the rule of 20 no 
> longer applies.  
>
> snip <








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Message: 14
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 02:22:31 -0000
From: "Dan" <djdanwilson_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Drive the dream? Poster

Jeremy -

You are not making a poor choice. Here's a little more free advice -
Don't drop off the DML. Stick around. Read all the posts, both new and
the archives. Find the nearest DeLorean club and join. Get to know the
owners, attend the meetings and events, especially the tech events. In
my club, AZ-D, we have non owner enthusiasts members, and they are
just as valued as the owner members. As a matter of fact, it's well
known that we have had non owner members that have been even more
enthusiastic about, and active in the club than some of the owners! If
you can swing it, try to attend DCS '06 this June in Chicago, and/or
next year attend the DMC Houston Open House. The more you learn, the
better the choices you will make when you finally purchase, and your
ownership experience will go much smoother.

Good luck! Welcome to the community.

Dan W.
VIN 16192
AZ-D


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "biojerm" <Jedamay_at_dml_g...> wrote:
>
> Id like to thank everyone for their advice and opinions on everything,
> I think im going to cry when I say the words "im not getting it", but
> I dont want to make a big mistake or anything. From what im hearing
> from everyone the best idea is to save up $20k or so for one that runs
> great. Hopefully in a couple of years ill be able to post on this
> forum about MY car and not one im planning on getting.
> 
> Thank you all for your support.
> Ill get one before I die! Just watch me.
> 
> Jeremy.
>









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Message: 15
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 16:21:44 -0000
From: "Brandon" <morpheus34711_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: An odd problem just cropped up.

On Sunday, (the day after our Central FL meet here in Orlando) a few
things were done on my car, #4205, including a fuel filter change and
a complete replacement of my melted fusebox and replacing most all of
my relays and circuit breakers, including my RPM relay.  After stage 1
was done, (fusebox and fuel filter) the car eventually started up and
ran  once the fuel system pressurized.  After this, we shut the car
off again and worked on replacing the relays and breakers.  When
finished with this, we fired up the car again and it seemed to be
idling a little rough.  We figured the ECU needed to re-learn
everything so we let it run.  It leveled out, but when I took it for a
drive up to the local Sonic, it was hesitating on acceleration, almost
like it was being starved for fuel or running lean.  

We got it back to my place and hooked up the dwell meter. (I had just
adjusted my mixture the day before and it was good before this) I
started the car, and the needle moved almost all the way over to the
right then gradually crept back down to 0.  Curious, I hooked it up to
#6720, parked right next to mine and it worked fine.  Bamboozled by
this, I started trying to adjust the mixture my feel.  I enriched it,
leaned it out, then slowly richened it till the idle smoothed out. 
Mind you, the frequency valve is silent through all of this.  I
swapped out my new Lambda relay with 6720, and his car ran fine with
both.  My main question is: What does that diag plug connection for
the dwell meter (Top right pin when looking at it from the driver's
side)get it's signal from?  What could have caused this issue?  

I took the car out again last night, and had the same lack of power
issue while the car was warming up... once it did, things seemed to be
ok power wise.  When it started up, it was sputtering a little as
well.  Any information or ideas would be helpful at this point, since
this issue makes absolutely no sense to me.  Thanks in advance for
your help!

Sincerely, 
Brandon Shelton
VIN #4205
Orlando, FL







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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 16:45:21 -0000
From: "birdwell77095" <birdwells_at_dml_usa.net>
Subject: copper washer for oil sending unit

On the driver's side above the oil pan is the Oil Pressure Sending 
Unit (?) that has a 23 mm plug. Mine is leaking and I think there is a 
copper washer/o-ring there. Does anyone know if these can be picked up 
at the auto stores or give me other information on type to get?

Shannon








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________________________________________________________________________


To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
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