From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 4:17 PM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [DML] Digest Number 3094

There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Re: Rule of 20
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net

2. Re: An odd problem just cropped up.
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_optonline.net>

3. Re: RE: Three needles in a hay stack : finding tires. LON
From: Jamie Hamlin <jamiepierce2000_at_dml_yahoo.com>

4. Re: Drive the dream? Poster
From: "Bernie" <bmanderville_at_dml_comcast.net>

5. RE: Transmission Clearance
From: "Joseph Kuchan" <josephkuchan_at_dml_hotmail.com>

6. RE: Transmission Clearance
From: "Darkstar" <darkstarmedia_at_dml_comcast.net>

7. Re: copper washer for oil sending unit
From: "Josh Haldeman" <jhaldeman_at_dml_fuse.net>

8. DMC value
From: "D F" <funkstuf_at_dml_hotmail.com>

9. Re: Re: Catalytic converters and California
From: Ryan Wright <ryanpwright_at_dml_gmail.com>

10. Re: Drive the dream?
From: "denverdelorean" <denverdelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>

11. Re: Re: Rule of 20
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com

12. Popping Sound
From: "Matt Carpenter" <mattdcarpenter_at_dml_msn.com>

13. RE: An odd problem just cropped up.
From: "Jeff Friday" <DeLorean_Type304_at_dml_msn.com>

14. RE: Rule of 20...Now 25.
From: "alex morgan" <mauibarber_at_dml_hotmail.com>

15. How well do your DeLoreans start?
From: "sweitzel_2000" <sweitzel_at_dml_lffltd.com>

16. Re: Re: refinished wheels
From: "Dale Schaub" <dale_at_dml_schaub.cc>

17. Fuel system put together wrong?
From: "denverdelorean" <denverdelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>

18. Re: Rule of 20
From: "tuxr" <tuxdarby_at_dml_msn.com>

19. Re: Drive the dream?
From: "blackaddertoo" <blackaddertoo_at_dml_yahoo.co.uk>

20. Re: copper washer for oil sending unit
From: "Mike Bosworth" <mike.bosworth_at_dml_btinternet.com>

21. RE: Fuel system put together wrong?
From: "Jeff Friday" <DeLorean_Type304_at_dml_msn.com>

22. Re: Rule of 20
From: "valleyrat12" <valleyrat12_at_dml_yahoo.com>

23. Re: copper washer for oil sending unit
From: "Brandon" <morpheus34711_at_dml_yahoo.com>

24. Re: An odd problem just cropped up.
From: "Brandon" <morpheus34711_at_dml_yahoo.com>

25. Re: copper washer for oil sending unit
From: Chris Shepherd <chrisau79_at_dml_yahoo.com>





Message: 1
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:34:52 +0000
From: mike.griese_at_dml_worldnet.att.net
Subject: Re: Re: Rule of 20

I have always interpreted the Rule of 20 to mean fixing all of the 
accessories in the car and bringing the cosmetics up to "average"
condition.  The seat covers don't need to be brand new, but there
shouldn't be any split seams or tears.  Carpets should be complete, 
headliners not sagging, dash and binnacle not split, etc.  

Defining "average" is a whole 'nother debate...

--
Mike


-------------- Original message from "valleyrat12" <valleyrat12_at_dml_yahoo.com>: -------------- 


> As ar recent purchaser of a Delorean I can say this: 
> 
> Purchased the car for $13,000 
> Tax:$1,072 
> Smog: $100 (failed twice) 
> Parts so far:$400 
> Parts to make it completely reliable: $300(accumulator/coolant hoses) 
> Total: $14,872 
> 
> I have done all the work myself so far and plan on it in the future. 
> My car is currently perfectly drivable, I just don't like the look 
> of those hoses and the hotstart/coldstart problem is more of an 
> annoyance than anything. So, for me it is the rule of $15,000 give 
> or take. Unless something goes drastically wrong with the car god 
> forbid.... 
> 
> If I were to "restore" the car it would need a lot of cosmetic 
> parts; new louvres, various interior parts, right rear quarter panel 
> and a passenger front fender but these things do not affect the 
> reliability of the car. So, what is this "rule of twenty"? Are 
> there really people that have had to put 8-10 thousand dollars into 
> their cars before they could even drive them?? Or are we talking 
> about cosmetic issues? 
> 
> Confused... 
> 
> Nathan 
> 2277 
> 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:14:31 -0000
From: "David Teitelbaum" <jtrealty_at_dml_optonline.net>
Subject: Re: An odd problem just cropped up.

Get the frequency valve to buzz, adjust the mixture back, and you
should be OK. When you were messing around in the fuseblock you may
have pushed a connector back for the Lambda relay.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Brandon" <morpheus34711_at_dml_y...> wrote:
>
> On Sunday, (the day after our Central FL meet here in Orlando) a few
> things were done on my car, #4205, including a fuel filter change and
> a complete replacement of my melted fusebox and replacing most all of
> my relays and circuit breakers, including my RPM relay.  After stage 1







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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 14:19:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Jamie Hamlin <jamiepierce2000_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Three needles in a hay stack : finding tires. LON

The spare comes off the rim!!!!
  never heard anyone say this before.

Joe Palatinus <jpalatinus_at_dml_gmail.com> wrote:
  --Some of the uninitiated my ask why I didn't put the spare on, I do keep the
spare with the car and I would have used it if I had no cell signal, but I have
had 2 flat tires in deloreans before and the spare always comes off the rim and
ends up grinding on the road. 




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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 23:24:56 -0000
From: "Bernie" <bmanderville_at_dml_comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Drive the dream? Poster

Jeremy,

Don't ever give up the dream, there are still lots of DeLoreans out
there, and they come up for sale all of the time.  As you save up your
money, you should really find a local set of D owners and start
hanging out with them, most don't really care if you own a D or not. 
  You will learn a lot about the car, and when you do have the money
you will be able to determine the cars value and how much work it will
require to make it a reliable car on your own.  As an added bonus, you
will probably be able to do most of the work yourself, because you  
learned about the car, how to work on it, it's major areas of concern,
and how to do the work.

One thing you might want to get is the workshop manual, just so you
can read it, and know before you go what makes what work, and how it
works.  And when you do get your car, you won't have to buy one!

I know you will get one eventually, I have no doubt about it.

Bernie

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "biojerm" <Jedamay_at_dml_g...> wrote:
>
> Id like to thank everyone for their advice and opinions on everything,
> I think im going to cry when I say the words "im not getting it", but
> I dont want to make a big mistake or anything. From what im hearing
> from everyone the best idea is to save up $20k or so for one that runs
> great. Hopefully in a couple of years ill be able to post on this
> forum about MY car and not one im planning on getting.
> 
> Thank you all for your support.
> Ill get one before I die! Just watch me.
> 
> Jeremy.
>








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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 15:49:40 -0600
From: "Joseph Kuchan" <josephkuchan_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Transmission Clearance

I like Darkstar's advice:

>   <snip>    Have some one keep an eye on the stands as you jack.

It is always a good idea to have someone who is not directly involved in a 
risky operation, to observe and act as "safety officer". I know of at least 
one fatal accident (not a DeLorean related incident) that could easily have 
been prevented if there had been just one person with no other role but to 
observe the overall operation and able to call a halt to things for review 
of procedures if something didn't look right.

Sometimes there are no second chances.

Regards,
Joe Kuchan







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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 17:07:40 -0700
From: "Darkstar" <darkstarmedia_at_dml_comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Transmission Clearance

One of these days I'll get a new plate that has the sensor in and replace
it.  Having a but of wire hang down from the diag. plug looks bad. I thought
of another thing... while your in there replace the TABs with TOBY TABS if
you haven't already. It's REALLY easy with no tranny.

Darkstar

-----Original Message-----
From: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com [mailto:dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
Of Dave Swingle
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 7:54 AM
To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [DML] Transmission Clearance


The only one of the three plates around the bellhousing that is
critical is the one that goes under the starter. It sets the gear depth
spacing between the starter and the housing. The other two are water
shields, a big deal when this trans is turned around in a front-drive
car, not a big deal in the DMC. It's common practice to throw away the
one that goes under the trans (just over the frame), but the other one
normally gets put back on, often with only one screw but with the wire
removed. The wire is an inductive pickup that goes to the diagnostic
connector but isn't used anywhere.

Dave S


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Darkstar" <darkstarmedia_at_dml_c...> wrote:
>
> I did it in the garage on 4 3 ton jack stands all the way up...
mostly by my
> self.

  I ended up destroying both
> plates and most of the bolts but have had no adverse issued due to
their
> absence.
>
> Darkstar









To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com

For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com

To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
Yahoo! Groups Links












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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:50:40 -0500
From: "Josh Haldeman" <jhaldeman_at_dml_fuse.net>
Subject: Re: copper washer for oil sending unit

You should be able to get what you need at an Advanced Auto Parts store. 
After stopping in there, I've sworn off the horrid Autozone.  Advanced 
actually has the DeLorean in their computer, and get this...THEY CARRY 
USEFUL PARTS!!  (woo-hoo)

So the golden question is...do they have those stores anywhere near you?

Good luck,
Josh



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "birdwell77095" <birdwells_at_dml_usa.net>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 11:45 AM
Subject: [DML] copper washer for oil sending unit


> On the driver's side above the oil pan is the Oil Pressure Sending
> Unit (?) that has a 23 mm plug. Mine is leaking and I think there is a
> copper washer/o-ring there. Does anyone know if these can be picked up
> at the auto stores or give me other information on type to get?
>
> Shannon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
> For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see 
> www.dmcnews.com
>
> To search the archives or view files, log in at 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 






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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 02:56:40 +0000
From: "D F" <funkstuf_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: DMC value

Just one last side note on the price of a Delorean.
Most of those cars that someone puts $20,000 into will probably sell for 
about $15,000. so the best thing is to let someone else put the money and 
labor into them.
Since I've fixed one $8,000 Delorean into a car I would drive anywhere and 
am in the process of restoring one $6,000 Delorean, my experience tells me 
that it is probably less expensive to let someone else (who loves to work on 
cars) spend the money and then buy it unless you are pretty mechanical, 
enjoy working on them, have a garage, have the tools, have experience, and 
realize that you will probably not get paid back for all your labor because 
a lot of your time will be spent learning and nobody pays for learning 
curves.

Dale Funk
4984
941






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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 14:38:23 -0800
From: Ryan Wright <ryanpwright_at_dml_gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Catalytic converters and California

On 1/24/06, Glenn <green95gst_at_dml_gmail.com> wrote:
>
> As a side note for California smog, you cannot bye or sell a used
> catalytic converter, or tamper with any "Functioning" smog
> equipment.  This usually means, if the catalytic is not
> malfunctioning, then  you cannot just change it.

Oops, hit it with a hammer while fixing something on the car. *bang*
Damn, did it again. Man, I'm really sloppy with this hammer. *bang*
Hey, I'd better break out the plasma cutter and fix these dents. What,
you say that's not the right tool for the job? Whoops, screwed up
again. Guess I'll have to buy a new converter.

-Ryan


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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 23:26:19 -0000
From: "denverdelorean" <denverdelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Drive the dream?

> Hmmm,I pay more than $30k in taxes.


OK.   This kind of comment isn't really warranted, fair, or 
necessary.  I "own" a DeLorean that the bank helped me buy.   I give 
the bank some money every month and they let me keep the car.  I treat 
it the same as any other DeLorean owner and probably better.  I don't 
jury rig anything, I replace parts when needed.  I upgrade parts when 
I want, and I keep the tank full of gas.  I am 25, make around 40 k a 
year. I OWN a 1969 Dodge Charger RT 440 six pack outright that is in 
show condition. I also have a little honda scooter for getting to 
work.  I dont need a 100k salary to do any of that, just some hard 
work.  I am, of course, in debt but it is reasonable and most of it is 
in assets that can be liquidated like cars and houses.  I think that a 
$7500 D in the condition described is a fair deal.  The shifting 
problems sound like they can be fixed with a new computer and the 
other things are the piddly little things that we all deal with.  The 
MOST expensive total repair I can think of would be a new engine and 
transmission.  thats about 8k if I am correct.  telling someone you 
pay more than their yearly salary in taxes is probably the most 
elitist thing I have ever heard.  To the prospective owner: Buy this 
car and work your ass off to bring it back.  Prove the naysayers 
wrong.  I pay 6% finance charges on my Delorean through wells fargo.  
It was easy and I paid nothing down.  I have 3 years left on the 
finance and the car will be mine.

Matt 

16076 (In the past month; new radiator, master and slave clutch 
cylinders, cleaned and repaired fuel delivery system, 350 bucks and a 
lot of work) 

 --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Gus Schlachter <gus_at_dml_a...> wrote:
>








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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:03:41 EST
From: Soma576_at_dml_aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Rule of 20

 
 
In a message dated 1/25/2006 3:02:52 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
valleyrat12_at_dml_yahoo.com writes:

If I  were to "restore" the car it would need a lot of cosmetic 
parts; new  louvres, various interior parts, right rear quarter panel 
and a passenger  front fender but these things do not affect the 
reliability of the  car.  So, what is this "rule of twenty"? Are 
there really people that  have had to put 8-10 thousand dollars into 
their cars before they could  even drive them?? Or are we talking 
about cosmetic  issues?

Confused...

Nathan
2277


>>>
Nathan,
 
We are talking about making a car that not only runs like it should as if  it 
were new, but also a car that looks good but isn't necessarily totally  
restored or a concours winner.  As in, the exterior is near-flawless, the  interior 
doesn't have fade or cracking and looks fresh and comfortable, all  vehicle 
features work properly, all recalls/service bulletins have been  addressed, 
most of the updates have been done, all fluids are replaced and ready  'for the 
longhaul' and the car is turn-key to get anywhere in the country on a  moment's 
notice. I would expect this description to be what most owners would  like 
their car to eventually be.
 
We are not talking about a car that simply gets you around town and isn't  
dilapidated.  We also are not talking about a car that has been, in  addition 
the description above, frame-off restored with a rebuilt engine  and most of the 
parts on the car refurbished or replaced with NOS parts, or in  other words 
the ultimate DeLorean (for me anyway)!
 
Of course, each owner has different personal goals, the type of the car the  
"rule of 20" describes is pretty much what most owners expect their car to be  
'when they are done'.  Does that make sense?
 
Andy
Fargo, ND  
1982 DeLorean DMC12 VIN 11596



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 20:36:04 -0700
From: "Matt Carpenter" <mattdcarpenter_at_dml_msn.com>
Subject: Popping Sound

I've been hearing an odd popping sound from the front of the car (seems near 
right dash area) when I initially drive the car forward and accelerate to 
about 10-15 mph.  The car drives extremely well so not sure what's going on. 
  Could it be a speedo cable issue?  Or perhaps a wheel issue? I'm stumped 
and haven't found this symptom on the dml.
Thanks,
Matt Carpenter
5586
AZ-D







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Message: 13
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 03:30:09 +0000
From: "Jeff Friday" <DeLorean_Type304_at_dml_msn.com>
Subject: RE: An odd problem just cropped up.

Hmmm,

I'd check your timing first of all because I've found that it can create 
problems during acceleration and during warm up if the car is not timed 
properly.  I'm a bit concerned about the Frequency valve remaining silent 
throughout your adjustments.  Try unplugging your O2 Sensor to see if it 
comes on.  It should go to a default rich setting and activate.  If that 
happens perhaps replace your O2 Sensor or trace the problem in the wiring 
back to the corresponding computer.  Did the FV use to make noise BEFORE the 
upgrades?
If the problems appeared AFTER your upgrades I'd go back and double check 
everything you did.

You have my number so give me a call tomorrow evening after 7:00 PM and I 
might be able to walk you through a few things.

Also go back and double check your fuel filter.  I serviced a car here with 
fuel problems and found that not only was the line at the pump leaking 
slowly over time (boot had fuel in it and I could see the line leaking) but 
the line above the fuel filter was not completely tightened.  And fuel had 
pooled up a bit on top of the Fuel Filter.  Both were leaking slowly but any 
leaks will result in crucial loss of fuel system pressure.

I have installed the Special T Auto Fuel Filter "easy connect" on a couple 
cars up here.  Now, that part is for the hard line going to the bottom of 
the filter but it allowed easier installation because I can connect the top 
line and properly torque it ALOT easier (I have to crawl around under the 
cars as I have no lift) and THEN connect the bottom with a simple hose clamp 
as I have already installed the upgraded connector on the new filter prior 
to placement.

This upgrade from STA only required a few inches of the hard line to be cut 
off.  I loved it.

Check out that connection tomorrow.

Jeff in NC

>From: "Brandon" <morpheus34711_at_dml_yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [DML] An odd problem just cropped up.
>Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 16:21:44 -0000
>
>On Sunday, (the day after our Central FL meet here in Orlando) a few
>things were done on my car, #4205, including a fuel filter change and
>a complete replacement of my melted fusebox and replacing most all of
>my relays and circuit breakers, including my RPM relay.  After stage 1
>was done, (fusebox and fuel filter) the car eventually started up and
>ran  once the fuel system pressurized.  After this, we shut the car
>off again and worked on replacing the relays and breakers.  When
>finished with this, we fired up the car again and it seemed to be
>idling a little rough.  We figured the ECU needed to re-learn
>everything so we let it run.  It leveled out, but when I took it for a
>drive up to the local Sonic, it was hesitating on acceleration, almost
>like it was being starved for fuel or running lean.
>
>We got it back to my place and hooked up the dwell meter. (I had just
>adjusted my mixture the day before and it was good before this) I
>started the car, and the needle moved almost all the way over to the
>right then gradually crept back down to 0.  Curious, I hooked it up to
>#6720, parked right next to mine and it worked fine.  Bamboozled by
>this, I started trying to adjust the mixture my feel.  I enriched it,
>leaned it out, then slowly richened it till the idle smoothed out.
>Mind you, the frequency valve is silent through all of this.  I
>swapped out my new Lambda relay with 6720, and his car ran fine with
>both.  My main question is: What does that diag plug connection for
>the dwell meter (Top right pin when looking at it from the driver's
>side)get it's signal from?  What could have caused this issue?
>
>I took the car out again last night, and had the same lack of power
>issue while the car was warming up... once it did, things seemed to be
>ok power wise.  When it started up, it was sputtering a little as
>well.  Any information or ideas would be helpful at this point, since
>this issue makes absolutely no sense to me.  Thanks in advance for
>your help!
>
>Sincerely,
>Brandon Shelton
>VIN #4205
>Orlando, FL
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
>moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
>For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com
>
>To search the archives or view files, log in at 
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>







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Message: 14
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 07:18:44 +0000
From: "alex morgan" <mauibarber_at_dml_hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Rule of 20...Now 25.

I completely agree with the rule of 25.  I was fortunate enough to have Dave 
Swingle convince me to pay a little more for my Delorean than I had planned. 
  It has been well worth it.  I have put 1600 miles on it in the last seven 
months with only one problem.  The AC low pressure switch went out and it 
cost me 17 dollars to replace at the local Napa auto parts.

I think the tough part for first time buyers is that a $14K Delorean and a 
$25K Delorean when put side by side can look nearly identical (on the 
surface).  This is not so with other classic cars.  A 14K 1957 Chevy Belair 
next to a 25 thousand dollar Belair shows a BIG difference.  I believe this 
also contributes to Deloreans not comanding high prices.  The stainless 
steel is a blessing and a curse.  They stay looking brand new but one car 
doesnt necessarily stand out more than another.  Especially to a untrained 
eye.

And the icing on the cake is if somebody does decide to paint there car to 
make it stand out, the first thing everyone thinks is that the car has had 
some major body damage/accident.  :)  Only in the world of Deloreans does 
this happen.  If I put a fancy paint color on my 57 chevy it would be 
celebrated and add value to the car.  The Delorean is definitely a unique 
automobile with unique problems.

Just my 2 cents, any thoughts?
Alex Morgan


You are absolutley correct. The "Rule of Twenty" is NOT a hard and
fast calculation. Many factors affect it. Maybe you want to transport
the car to DMCH and have them do the work. Maybe you want a local
place to mess it up. Maybe you want to learn how to fix a car for the
first time and it is going to be on a "cheap" Delorean. Maybe it's a
non-runner and the engine and trans are junk. Maybe you want to use it
as a daily driver as you try to make it reliable and get towed home
once a week for a month. If any of this sounds familiar you probably
spent a lot more than $20,000. The point of the "Rule of Twenty" is to
try to convince a newbie that the cheapest car he can find is not
going to cost the least. In the car hobby generally the more you can
spend the less it will cost overall. Of course you CAN find bargains
and you CAN find that $15,000 car that is really a $7,500 car. You
NEED a knowledgeable person to help determine what the true value is
of the car you intend to buy. Make it the "Rule of Twenty Five" if you
want, it is the principle that is important.
David Teitelbaum
vin 10757







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Message: 15
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 07:28:39 -0000
From: "sweitzel_2000" <sweitzel_at_dml_lffltd.com>
Subject: How well do your DeLoreans start?

My DeLorean is in pretty good tune. I have 8400 original miles on it.
It was well within CA emissions standards (as of 2 years ago) and I
get approx 20mpg with no excessive hunting at idle. I was wondering
what kind of starting nuances various owners experiences with their
cars. Mine starts practically instantly - within 1 second of key turn
without touching the accelerator pedal regardless of whether it was
driven yesterday or if I have left it sitting in the garage for over
three months. However, sometimes if I am driving around and stop at a
friends house and park it in an inclined driveway, it may take upwards
of two to three seconds of cranking to get it to fire. In those
situations, it sometimes acts like it's not running on all cylinders
when it catches until i goose the throttle a few times to even it out.
How about everyone else?







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Message: 16
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 12:38:39 -0700
From: "Dale Schaub" <dale_at_dml_schaub.cc>
Subject: Re: Re: refinished wheels


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Farrar Hudkins" <fhudkins_at_dml_uno.edu>
To: <dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 9:57 AM
Subject: [DML] Re: refinished wheels


> /lurk mode cancel
>
> The last time I checked, DMC Houston was offering wheels that were
> finished differently than stock. They look great, and I imagine that
> these are not new products, but old wheels that have been refinished. I
> have no idea if they would do this to your wheels (it could be that they
> only take NOS wheels off the shelves and sell those), but you could call
> and ask them.
>
> Maybe, if you're lucky or have a silver tongue, you could strike a deal
> where you could give you your wheels and take some of the cost out of a
> new set you would purchase, similar to the way some places do with other
> parts. That's just a thought, though, and probably a very unrealistic
> one. You may give it a shot, though. It can't hurt.
>
> /lurk mode engage
>
> Farrar Hudkins
> New Orleans, LA
> '98 Ranger XLT "Laggy"
>
>
> To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
> moderator_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
> To search the archives or view files, log in at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>





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Message: 17
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 04:37:03 -0000
From: "denverdelorean" <denverdelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Fuel system put together wrong?

OK. I had to replace my Slave cylinder, so that required removal of the 
fuel system and all that. I put it back together and now it wont run 
right. All my grounds are hooked up. The car catches right away and 
races up to about 1700 rpm. Then drops to a 5-800. It hovers there for 
a rotation or two then dies. I can press on the gass to keep it running 
but it is rough and will eventually flood and die. I can't find what's 
wrong but it worked perfect before and now it doesn't. I think 
something in the warmup circuit is hosed but where should i check?









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Message: 18
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 01:16:41 -0000
From: "tuxr" <tuxdarby_at_dml_msn.com>
Subject: Re: Rule of 20

I was including enough cosmetic things to make it presentable, so 
when people come up and see it when you're getting gas, it looks 
pretty good.  Not necessarily showroom new, but decent enough that 
there aren't glaring faults that hit an admirer right in the face 
when they look at it briefly.  Maybe if they hung around for a 
little while or drove in it they'd notice the flaws, but not right 
off the bat with a first impression.  I wouldn't want a Delorean, or 
any car, that was mechanically reliable but had a tear in the 
shoulder of the seats, a cracked dashboard, withered shift boot, and 
a headliner that really was a "shoulderliner".  Just my personal 
preference, I drive it everyday, so that's how I was defining the 
end result and the cost associated with it.  If you don't have a 
passenger front fender or right rear quarter panel as you mentioned 
below, I wouldn't say that's a finished car for "rule" purposes.  
Not knocking that at all, to me that would be a restoration in 
progress, nothing wrong with that.  But just wanted to compare 
apples to apples.

Just out of curiosity, on your car, did you check out the condition 
of some of the critical safety parts, such as ball joints, trailing 
arm bolts, etc.  You may consider it driveable and reliable, but it 
may be an extremely serious safety hazard.  Again, I was including 
replacement of critical safety items whether it looked like it 
needed it or not (and I've learned from experience how a ball joint 
may look OK, but breaks - fortunately at 2 mph, wouldn't want to 
think what would have happened on the interstate).

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "valleyrat12" <valleyrat12_at_dml_y...> 
wrote:
>
> As ar recent purchaser of a Delorean I can say this:
> 
> Purchased the car for $13,000
> Tax:$1,072
> Smog: $100 (failed twice) 
> Parts so far:$400
> Parts to make it completely reliable: $300(accumulator/coolant 
hoses)
> Total: $14,872
> 
> I have done all the work myself so far and plan on it in the 
future. 
> My car is currently perfectly drivable, I just don't like the look 
> of those hoses and the hotstart/coldstart problem is more of an 
> annoyance than anything. So, for me it is the rule of $15,000 give 
> or take. Unless something goes drastically wrong with the car god 
> forbid....
> 
> If I were to "restore" the car it would need a lot of cosmetic 
> parts; new louvres, various interior parts, right rear quarter 
panel 
> and a passenger front fender but these things do not affect the 
> reliability of the car.  So, what is this "rule of twenty"? Are 
> there really people that have had to put 8-10 thousand dollars 
into 
> their cars before they could even drive them?? Or are we talking 
> about cosmetic issues?
> 
> Confused...
> 
> Nathan
> 2277
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "tuxr" <tuxdarby_at_dml_m...> wrote:
> >
> > Seems a hot topic these days, the real cost of the car.  Some 
> still 
> > use the Rule of 20:  add what you pay, plus repairs and 
> refurbishment, 
> > it will come to $20,000.  So if you pay $12,000, it will cost 
> $8,000 
> > on top of that.  If you pay $15,000, it will cost $5,000 on top 
of 
> > that.  Based on everyone I know, have talked to, my personal 
> > experience with two cars, and reading this and other online 
> > discussions, I'd like to throw on the table that the rule of 20 
no 
> > longer applies.  Actually, any "rule" should really be two 
rules, 
> one 
> > for those who have the skills and capability to do the work 
> > themselves, and one for those without those skills and have to 
get 
> it 
> > worked on at a shop.  Two entirely different cost structures.  
> There 
> > can't be only "one" rule.  My view is it should be the "Rule of 
> > 22/27".  While your heart may want to stick to the Rule of 20, 
> hard 
> > economics must be recognized.  And it seems the downside 
> (unexpected 
> > higher costs) really outweigh the upside (coming in under 
budget).
> >
>









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Message: 19
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 03:42:40 -0000
From: "blackaddertoo" <blackaddertoo_at_dml_yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Drive the dream?

sorry to buck the trend but owning many classics and in fact a car 
atall is not financially good.

They will always cost something and if you take this view on things, 
you would only ever travel on foot/bike and use buses. you could 
live in a tent as a hermit and save the cash, and eat porridge for 
the rest of your life, you'll have lots of money when your older, 
but your here once only.

Many people i think buy a car with your heart. i did with mine. yeh 
it will cost, but you live once, and you can't take any with you.

if i had waited till i had $20k+, i would not have got there.
There would always be something else the wife would want to spend 
money on!. she would not go for a classic car.

You can do it much cheaper, as i said many parts on the car are 25 
years old (like trim etc) so buying second hand is OK.
obviously some parts have to be new, like the accumulator.
But even things like spark plugs for example can be cleaned, 
regapped and reused. you have to be prepared for a lot of hard work, 
but at least with these cars, money that goes into it generally can 
be recovered if you decide to sell, unlike many other classics.

i'm not saying to this chap buy the car, but sometimes your heart 
overules any sensibilty.

If John Delorean had stayed 'sensible' and stayed employed by 
others, would any of not be here owning his dream? 

just an alternative view on things!.

Regards

steve
 





--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, Ryan Wright <ryanpwright_at_dml_g...> wrote:
>
> On 1/23/06, Chris Murley <qumefox_at_dml_g...> wrote:
> > Saying someone can't afford a delorean just
> > because they aren't rich enough is just mean. You can own one on 
a
> > $30k/yr salary. Either you can buy a cheap one, and fix it 
yourself
> > knowing you'll have about $20k in it when your done, or you can 
get a
> > loan and buy one in good shape to begin with and just make 
payments on
> > it like you would with any other car.
> 
> Owning a car that is 2/3rds of your yearly salary is financially
> irresponsible. Period. I know people do it all the time, but if you
> told a financial planner he'd probably have a heart attack. Anybody
> who has aspirations of retiring with dignity at a reasonable age 
would
> not make such a foolish mistake.
> 
> If you have to engage in financial irresponsibility to own 
something,
> "You can't afford it." Yeah, you can work your way into a DeLorean 
on
> $30k a year. Heck, you could do it on half that. That doesn't make 
it
> a good idea. Buying a classic or other specialty/exotic automobile 
on
> credit is likewise a terrible idea. I'd highly advise anyone to pay
> cash for their DeLorean and it's needs or don't buy it.
> 
> These are not the ramblings of some elitist jerk. Well, actually 
they
> are, but that's beside the point. It's simply good financial advice
> with a healthy dose of common sense. What happens when a DeLorean
> suddenly needs a couple grand worth of work? That day will come 
and if
> someone is living on $30k, making $300 a month car payments at 8%
> interest (good luck getting a loan for a 1981 vehicle at a lower
> rate), it's going to be a tough sell. So the car will sit in 
neglect
> because the owner can't afford to care for it. Eventually he will 
sell
> it for a fraction of what he has into it and the dream will be 
lost.
> It happens all the time in this community. Where do you think the
> $7,500 DeLorean comes from? It's someone's lost dream.
> 
> But don't let me tell anyone how to manage their finances, because 
I'm
> not like "normal" people who have loads of consumer debt, live
> paycheck to paycheck and finance cars. If you want to be normal,
> follow the advice of normal people and pretend us successful folks 
are
> just mean or don't know what we're talking about. Just remember 
that I
> once supported a family on much less than $30k a year, so I'm not
> knocking your income. I've been in your shoes and if things went to
> hell I could find myself there again - and I'd sell my DeLorean in 
a
> second.
> 
> -Ryan
>










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Message: 20
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 12:35:23 -0000
From: "Mike Bosworth" <mike.bosworth_at_dml_btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: copper washer for oil sending unit

Hi


Are you sure its the washer and not the sender? they are notorious 
for leaking from the centre but looks like they are leaking from 
the 'main washer'.

I would give it a good clean up and examine it / replace it anyway

Regards

Mike
#2001



--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "birdwell77095" <birdwells_at_dml_u...> 
wrote:
>
> On the driver's side above the oil pan is the Oil Pressure Sending 
> Unit (?) that has a 23 mm plug. Mine is leaking and I think there 
is a 
> copper washer/o-ring there. Does anyone know if these can be picked 
up 
> at the auto stores or give me other information on type to get?
> 
> Shannon
>










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Message: 21
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 15:42:18 +0000
From: "Jeff Friday" <DeLorean_Type304_at_dml_msn.com>
Subject: RE: Fuel system put together wrong?

Well it's definitely possible something got crossed.

Surges then drops and dies.

Sounds like pressure issues which could be related to your idle control 
system.  Did you unplug any of the vacuum lines behind the metering unit.  
If you crossed any of them it is possible it's a problem with the vacuum 
solenoid and or the microswitch and idle speed motor.  That switch controls 
the vacuum solenoid which in turn applys vacuum advance during acceleration. 
  The idle speed motor is tied into the same system.

I'd double check all my vacuum lines.  I had a customer recently with an 
idle problem and I traced it to a crack in the vacuum lines at the warm-up 
regulator.  Once replaced the car returned to normal operation.  Then 
another customer earlier whose vacuum lines were hooked up in the wrong 
order from the Ported Switch under the manifold as well as the two lines on 
the vacuum solenoid.

Go back and double check the fuel lines also.  It is possible that you might 
have a few mixed up.

Let us all know what you find.

Jeff in NC

>From: "denverdelorean" <denverdelorean_at_dml_yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>To: dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [DML] Fuel system put together wrong?
>Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 04:37:03 -0000
>
>OK. I had to replace my Slave cylinder, so that required removal of the
>fuel system and all that. I put it back together and now it wont run
>right. All my grounds are hooked up. The car catches right away and
>races up to about 1700 rpm. Then drops to a 5-800. It hovers there for
>a rotation or two then dies. I can press on the gass to keep it running
>but it is rough and will eventually flood and die. I can't find what's
>wrong but it worked perfect before and now it doesn't. I think
>something in the warmup circuit is hosed but where should i check?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>To address comments privately to the moderating team, please address:
>moderators_at_dml_dmcnews.com
>
>For more info on the list, tech articles, cars for sale see www.dmcnews.com
>
>To search the archives or view files, log in at 
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>







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Message: 22
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 16:07:36 -0000
From: "valleyrat12" <valleyrat12_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Rule of 20

OK, im starting to see where you guys are coming from.

My car is not perfect cosmetically. There are cracks on the binnacle 
and dash, and the seats are not so good (I have covers on  both 
seats and dash) but that has not stopped people in MUCH more 
valuable cars from drooling all over my Delorean.

I have inspected both trailing arm bolts and ball joints and they 
look OK, perhaps I will take your advice and replace them just to 
be "sure". My car spent most of its life in AZ before moving to CO 
(and now CA) so there is not perceptible rust on the frame and 
no "bubbling" of the epoxy.  The body panels are not bad, there is a 
small crease in the passenger fender that some hack repair was made 
to (don said that they could make it better but not perfect) and the 
top of the driver quarter panel had a dent at one point (hack repair 
again) you would have to look close to notice these problems. 

I guess for me the car is good, it's what I can afford.  When I get 
much wealthier I will do all the little things that it needs and I 
suppose that they might add up to another $5000 or so.

Nathan	
2277


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "tuxr" <tuxdarby_at_dml_m...> wrote:
>
> I was including enough cosmetic things to make it presentable, so 
> when people come up and see it when you're getting gas, it looks 
> pretty good.  Not necessarily showroom new, but decent enough that 
> there aren't glaring faults that hit an admirer right in the face 
> when they look at it briefly.  Maybe if they hung around for a 
> little while or drove in it they'd notice the flaws, but not right 
> off the bat with a first impression.  I wouldn't want a Delorean, 
or 
> any car, that was mechanically reliable but had a tear in the 
> shoulder of the seats, a cracked dashboard, withered shift boot, 
and 
> a headliner that really was a "shoulderliner".  Just my personal 
> preference, I drive it everyday, so that's how I was defining the 
> end result and the cost associated with it.  If you don't have a 
> passenger front fender or right rear quarter panel as you 
mentioned 
> below, I wouldn't say that's a finished car for "rule" purposes.  
> Not knocking that at all, to me that would be a restoration in 
> progress, nothing wrong with that.  But just wanted to compare 
> apples to apples.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, on your car, did you check out the 
condition 
> of some of the critical safety parts, such as ball joints, 
trailing 
> arm bolts, etc.  You may consider it driveable and reliable, but 
it 
> may be an extremely serious safety hazard.  Again, I was including 
> replacement of critical safety items whether it looked like it 
> needed it or not (and I've learned from experience how a ball 
joint 
> may look OK, but breaks - fortunately at 2 mph, wouldn't want to 
> think what would have happened on the interstate).
> 
> --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "valleyrat12" <valleyrat12_at_dml_y...> 
> wrote:
> >
> > As ar recent purchaser of a Delorean I can say this:
> > 
> > Purchased the car for $13,000
> > Tax:$1,072
> > Smog: $100 (failed twice) 
> > Parts so far:$400
> > Parts to make it completely reliable: $300(accumulator/coolant 
> hoses)
> > Total: $14,872
> > 
> > I have done all the work myself so far and plan on it in the 
> future. 
> > My car is currently perfectly drivable, I just don't like the 
look 
> > of those hoses and the hotstart/coldstart problem is more of an 
> > annoyance than anything. So, for me it is the rule of $15,000 
give 
> > or take. Unless something goes drastically wrong with the car 
god 
> > forbid....
> > 
> > If I were to "restore" the car it would need a lot of cosmetic 
> > parts; new louvres, various interior parts, right rear quarter 
> panel 
> > and a passenger front fender but these things do not affect the 
> > reliability of the car.  So, what is this "rule of twenty"? Are 
> > there really people that have had to put 8-10 thousand dollars 
> into 
> > their cars before they could even drive them?? Or are we talking 
> > about cosmetic issues?
> > 
> > Confused...
> > 
> > Nathan
> > 2277
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "tuxr" <tuxdarby_at_dml_m...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Seems a hot topic these days, the real cost of the car.  Some 
> > still 
> > > use the Rule of 20:  add what you pay, plus repairs and 
> > refurbishment, 
> > > it will come to $20,000.  So if you pay $12,000, it will cost 
> > $8,000 
> > > on top of that.  If you pay $15,000, it will cost $5,000 on 
top 
> of 
> > > that.  Based on everyone I know, have talked to, my personal 
> > > experience with two cars, and reading this and other online 
> > > discussions, I'd like to throw on the table that the rule of 
20 
> no 
> > > longer applies.  Actually, any "rule" should really be two 
> rules, 
> > one 
> > > for those who have the skills and capability to do the work 
> > > themselves, and one for those without those skills and have to 
> get 
> > it 
> > > worked on at a shop.  Two entirely different cost structures.  
> > There 
> > > can't be only "one" rule.  My view is it should be the "Rule 
of 
> > > 22/27".  While your heart may want to stick to the Rule of 20, 
> > hard 
> > > economics must be recognized.  And it seems the downside 
> > (unexpected 
> > > higher costs) really outweigh the upside (coming in under 
> budget).
> > >
> >
>








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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 23
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 15:43:27 -0000
From: "Brandon" <morpheus34711_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: copper washer for oil sending unit

I was having a huge oil leak from this sender as well, turns out the
sender itself was leaking, as it had a copper washer in place behind
it.  I would just replace the whole thing, it's really not that tough
to do, and the sender is not all that expensive.

Brandon Shelton
VIN #4205
Orlando, FL.

--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "birdwell77095" <birdwells_at_dml_u...> wrote:
>
> On the driver's side above the oil pan is the Oil Pressure Sending 
> Unit (?) that has a 23 mm plug. Mine is leaking and I think there is a 
> copper washer/o-ring there. Does anyone know if these can be picked up 
> at the auto stores or give me other information on type to get?
> 
> Shannon
>








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________________________________________________________________________


Message: 24
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 15:40:27 -0000
From: "Brandon" <morpheus34711_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: An odd problem just cropped up.

You know, there's nothing quite like replying to your own message...

Ok, I figured out what the problem is. This makes me feel extremely
stupid, but I had the Lambda relay plugged into the engine bay socket,
not in the relay compartment where it belongs.

I was banging my head against the wall trying to figure this out, then
it hit me. The car only started running like ass after we changed out
all the relays. So, I looked at a diagram and sure enough, the Lambda
relay was supposed to be next to the green relay. I went out, swapped
the Lambda and the black relay in it's place, and the car fired right
up. I could hear a very welcome sound this time... the FV was buzzing
like a happy little bee. It was running rich, due to my adjusting the
mixture earlier. SO, I hooked up my trusty dwell meter (which is now
getting signal from the connection pin, interestingly enough) and
dialed it in. Now, she's running just fine. 


Thanks for the suggestions, guys. If anyone needs me, I'll be sitting
in the corner with a dunce hat on.

Brandon Shelton
VIN #4205
Orlando, FL


--- In dmcnews_at_dml_yahoogroups.com, "Brandon" <morpheus34711_at_dml_y...> wrote:
>
> On Sunday, (the day after our Central FL meet here in Orlando) a few
> things were done on my car, #4205, including a fuel filter change and
> a complete replacement of my melted fusebox and replacing most all of
> my relays and circuit breakers, including my RPM relay.  After stage 1
> was done, (fusebox and fuel filter) the car eventually started up and
> ran  once the fuel system pressurized.  After this, we shut the car
> off again and worked on replacing the relays and breakers.  When
> finished with this, we fired up the car again and it seemed to be
> idling a little rough.  We figured the ECU needed to re-learn
> everything so we let it run.  It leveled out, but when I took it for a
> drive up to the local Sonic, it was hesitating on acceleration, almost
> like it was being starved for fuel or running lean.  
> 
> We got it back to my place and hooked up the dwell meter. (I had just
> adjusted my mixture the day before and it was good before this) I
> started the car, and the needle moved almost all the way over to the
> right then gradually crept back down to 0.  Curious, I hooked it up to
> #6720, parked right next to mine and it worked fine.  Bamboozled by
> this, I started trying to adjust the mixture my feel.  I enriched it,
> leaned it out, then slowly richened it till the idle smoothed out. 
> Mind you, the frequency valve is silent through all of this.  I
> swapped out my new Lambda relay with 6720, and his car ran fine with
> both.  My main question is: What does that diag plug connection for
> the dwell meter (Top right pin when looking at it from the driver's
> side)get it's signal from?  What could have caused this issue?  
> 
> I took the car out again last night, and had the same lack of power
> issue while the car was warming up... once it did, things seemed to be
> ok power wise.  When it started up, it was sputtering a little as
> well.  Any information or ideas would be helpful at this point, since
> this issue makes absolutely no sense to me.  Thanks in advance for
> your help!
> 
> Sincerely, 
> Brandon Shelton
> VIN #4205
> Orlando, FL
>









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Message: 25
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 07:02:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Shepherd <chrisau79_at_dml_yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: copper washer for oil sending unit

You probably don't need a new one unless it's cracked. It's made of copper so get it really hot, glowing,  and quench it in cold water. Do it a couple of times. This softens the copper so it will conform and seal again.
   
  Other option is a Volvo dealer. Engine is B28F,
   
  Chris
  6301

birdwell77095 <birdwells_at_dml_usa.net> wrote:
  On the driver's side above the oil pan is the Oil Pressure Sending 
Unit (?) that has a 23 mm plug. Mine is leaking and I think there is a 
copper washer/o-ring there. Does anyone know if these can be picked up 
at the auto stores or give me other information on type to get?

Shannon








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